Warning for women walking alone between Viana and Torres del Rio

[Gibbru]

A post from another forum I'm following (I won't mention the pilgrim's name) about a horrible experience that happened to her today: "It was only day 7 of my Camino and will be my last. Between Torres del Rio and Viana around 1pm.. A naked man wearing nothing but a balaclava jumped out from behind bushes with dick in hand. He was less than a meter away from me. It was disgusting. I was so scared and because i had sore feet from the 25kms i had done that day and the large pack i was carrying, I couldn't move away from him as quickly as i wanted to.
A warning to those walking after 12noon by themselves that there are less people on the track and sometimes you wont see someone for hours which can be a prime opportunity for disgusting people like this or worse."

 

[notion900]

@Gibbru Thanks for posting. I hope this was reported to the Guardia Civil, if not can someone encourage and assist her to make a report. It's also very sad if she gives up her camino because of this. I hope she can get support to continue.

 

[Deleted member 36903]

@Gibbru sorry to hear of the experience and please urge the pilgrim to do as @notion900 says and report the incident to the Guardia Civil. My memory might be wrong on this, but I seem to recall there have been similar incidents in the past in the same area that have been reported on this forum.

 

[HighlandsHiker]

A post from another forum I'm following (I won't mention the pilgrim's name) about a horrible experience that happened to her today: "It was only day 7 of my Camino and will be my last. Between Torres del Rio and Viana around 1pm.. A naked man wearing nothing but a balaclava jumped out from behind bushes with dick in hand. He was less than a meter away from me. It was disgusting. I was so scared and because i had sore feet from the 25kms i had done that day and the large pack i was carrying, I couldn't move away from him as quickly as i wanted to.
A warning to those walking after 12noon by themselves that there are less people on the track and sometimes you wont see someone for hours which can be a prime opportunity for disgusting people like this or worse."

Thank you for reporting it, Gibbru. I wish these could be put in the personal safety or crime areas. Otherwise they get lost in the shuffle.

 

[wayfarer]

There is continuing concern about incidents affecting female pilgrims. We reiterate the advice given by a number of pilgrim associations and the Spanish authorities:

Before you set out, programme the emergency number 112 into your telephone.

Consider downloading this App issued by the Spanish government:

https://alertcops.ses.mir.es/mialertcops/info/info.xhtml

The app allows anyone in Spain to send an alert from a mobile device "smartphone'"straight to the police..

If you feel threatened or uncomfortable or if you are assaulted in any way TRY TO REMOVE yourself to a place of safety immediately

Call the police – the best number to use is 112 which covers all of Spain (and much of Europe) and which has operators who speak English.

And please, please, REPORT all incidents to the police. Too many of these unlawful aggressions are never reported, which means that the full extent of the problem is hidden from the authorities.

 

[Mikel Olivares]

I'm sorry to read this news.
The Guardia Civil is very committed in the persecution of these crimes.
We must always denounce them so that they are persecuted and put at judicial disposal

 

[notion900]

And before anyone else posts, please don't say 'women should hit the flasher with their poles', or 'best thing is to laugh at them'.

(Edited by moderator)

 

[HighlandsHiker]

There is continuing concern about incidents affecting female pilgrims. We reiterate the advice given by a number of pilgrim associations and the Spanish authorities:

Before you set out, programme the emergency number 112 into your telephone.

Consider downloading this App issued by the Spanish government:

https://alertcops.ses.mir.es/mialertcops/info/info.xhtml

The app allows anyone in Spain to send an alert from a mobile device "smartphone'"straight to the police..

If you feel threatened or uncomfortable or if you are assaulted in any way TRY TO REMOVE yourself to a place of safety immediately

Call the police – the best number to use is 112 which covers all of Spain (and much of Europe) and which has operators who speak English.

And please, please, REPORT all incidents to the police. Too many of these unlawful aggressions are never reported, which means that the full extent of the problem is hidden from the authorities.

If anyone else has luck downloading this, I'd like to know how it was accomplished on an iPhone. I've tried at least 10X over a couple of months and continue to get "gibberish" as a validation code in the form of a long string of mathematical symbols and letters with umlauts. I have an entire message page full of them. They don't copy and paste - tried that. And they aren't on any keyboard that I am aware of. I'm mostly concerned that decisions would be made based on the idea that there is this safety measure in place that can't actually be accessed. This kind of behavior sounds like a mixture of things, but there seems to be an element of aggression in it - jumping at and deliberately trying to frighten a female alone - that seems a bit more predatory than a passive flasher.

 

[MinaKamina]

If anyone else has luck downloading this, I'd like to know how it was accomplished on an iPhone. I've tried at least 10X over a couple of months and continue to get "gibberish" as a validation code in the form of a long string of mathematical symbols and letters with umlauts. I have an entire message page full of them. They don't copy and paste - tried that. And they aren't on any keyboard that I am aware of. I'm mostly concerned that decisions would be made based on the idea that there is this safety measure in place that can't actually be accessed. This kind of behavior sounds like mixture of things, but there does seem to be an element of aggression in it - jumping at and deliberately trying to frighten a female alone - that seems a bit more predatory than a passive flasher.

Very predatory, given the balaclava. This is not the 'usual' passive flasher, this person is aggressive and prepared. Nasty.

As Gibbru writes:

A warning to those walking after 12noon by themselves that there are less people on the track and sometimes you wont see someone for hours which can be a prime opportunity for disgusting people like this or worse."

 

[MichelleElynHogan]

Though this incident is horrendous, I am very happy the peregrino was not hurt. In addition, the considerate and helpful responses are always heartening and show what the Pilgrims' Community is really all about. The greatest secret out there is that there is no, "them." There is only us and we are all equal and related. Your most distant relative is a 32nd cousin.

Gibbru, I pray that your heart has healed enough to continue on, to celebrate the positives that have occured so far, that they have outweighed the negative things and have pity and compassion for the man in the mask. He needs help, understanding to realize what he is doing should not continue and that he can get the help he needs.

 

[trecile]

I read the peregrina's post on the other forum, and she did not contact the police immediately, because there was not police station until the town she would be in the next day. But surely an employee at a bar, or a hospitalero could make the call.
Anyone else in this situation should definitely tell someone right away who can contact the police, or has been mentioned above program the Guardia Civil phone number in your phone and/or install the Alert Cops app.

 

[Olygirl]

There are many reports of exhibitionists exposing themselves to pilgrims. It's a shame the woman wants to break off her walk due to one nutjob. He's an idiot and hopefully the locals will be able to solve the situation.

 

[Annie Little]

@Gibbru sorry to hear of the experience and please urge the pilgrim to do as @notion900 says and report the incident to the Guardia Civil. My memory might be wrong on this, but I seem to recall there have been similar incidents in the past in the same area that have been reported on this forum.

This is exactly same as a story a few week or a month ago .... is it the same one ? .... I am not sure where the last one was .... seems the same but reported again ..... hope it is not a serial predator

 

[notion900]

I think the last one on here happened to me last month, in Embalsa de Proserpina? Unlikely to be the same person as a long way away. But I think all these guys are potentially 'serial' until they get stopped.

Would be good if all the reports could be moved to Crime Watch section by the mods for future reference. There seems to be some in Personal Safety and some in Crime Watch.

 

[MinaKamina]

This is exactly same as a story a few week or a month ago .... is it the same one ? .... I am not sure where the last one was .... seems the same but reported again ..... hope it is not a serial predator

There is a thread about problems after Viana from 2015. Involved a woman walking alone after mid-day.
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/alert-problems-after-viana.36331/

Also in 2015 a peregerina was harassed by was a similar masked man near Belorado:
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/incident-between-belorado-and-tosantos.44023/

 

[Pabloke]

There are many reports of exhibitionists exposing themselves to pilgrims. It's a shame the woman wants to break off her walk due to one nutjob. He's an idiot and hopefully the locals will be able to solve the situation.

According to Spanish Law, exhibitionism is not a crime unless there are children or "mental disabled" involved.

De los delitos de exhibicionismo y provocación sexual
Artículo 185

El que ejecutare o hiciere ejecutar a otra persona actos de exhibición obscena ante menores de edad o personas con discapacidad necesitadas de especial protección, será castigado con la pena de prisión de seis meses a un año o multa de 12 a 24 meses.

 

[MinaKamina]

According to Spanish Law, exhibitionism is not a crime unless there are children or "mental disabled" involved.

De los delitos de exhibicionismo y provocación sexual
Artículo 185

El que ejecutare o hiciere ejecutar a otra persona actos de exhibición obscena ante menores de edad o personas con discapacidad necesitadas de especial protección, será castigado con la pena de prisión de seis meses a un año o multa de 12 a 24 meses.

Can't imagine any community being delighted that this is happening. Also, this was an attack by some who jumped from the bushes. Wasn't standing in the window of his own home or anything. Huge difference. Report it and let them take action. We aim to achieve a safe Camino for everyone, not to protect the assumed rights of flashers.

Spain has an extensive law against sexist crimes: la ley integral contra la violencia de género, 2004.
Peregrinas are harassed by exhibitionists because they are women and they can fully claim protection by the law.

 

[HighlandsHiker]

I think the last one on here happened to me last month, in Embalsa de Proserpina? Unlikely to be the same person as a long way away. But I think all these guys are potentially 'serial' until they get stopped.

Would be good if all the reports could be moved to Crime Watch section by the mods for future reference. There seems to be some in Personal Safety and some in Crime Watch.

BTW Notion 900, it appears that Shawn is looking for you:0)).

 

[notion900]

When I reported 'Embalsa Man' there was no suggestion by the Guardia that it wasn't a punishable offence. They told me my report was 'for us (i.e. intelligence)' and 'for the magistrate'.

 

[Pabloke]

Can't imagine any community being delighted that this is happening. Also, this was an attack by some who jumped from the bushes. Wasn't standing in the window of his own home or anything. Huge difference. Report it and let them take action. We aim to achieve a safe Camino for everyone, not to protect the assumed rights of flashers.

Spain has an extensive law against sexist crimes: la ley integral contra la violencia de género, 2004.
Peregrinas are harassed by exhibitionists because they are women and they can fully claim protection by the law.

Maybe you can read again my post and the post I quoted.

I'm pretty sure you are not a spanish lawyer as I'm pretty sure that, according to Spanish Law, exhibitionism is not a crime unless children and disabled are involved. Not my opinion, not my mind, just how it is, just what Law says. And that's what I'm saying to Olygirl.

One judge will set the difference between exhibitionism and assault or attack and, of course, it won't have a thing to do with la ley integral de violencia de género.

 

[MinaKamina]

When I reported 'Embalsa Man' there was no suggestion by the Guardia that it wasn't a punishable offence. They told me my report was 'for us (i.e. intelligence)' and 'for the magistrate'.

Imagine a country where men were allowed to unzip at any time and any place and wave their willies - even the Police when a woman came to report harassment.

 

[katie@camino]

And before anyone else posts, please don't say 'women should hit the flasher with their poles', or 'best thing is to laugh at them'.

(Edited by moderator)

Hi there, just curious why you say we shouldnt say 'hit the flasher with their poles'. A spanish man groped me along the camino last year and my first instinct was to hit him with my poles (but i couldnt because he had gotten away). And having my poles did make me feel a bit safer. So is your perspective that it could anger the flasher and make him more dangerous? I am just curious

 

[Annie Little]

There is a thread about problems after Viana from 2015. Involved a woman walking alone after mid-day.
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/alert-problems-after-viana.36331/

Also in 2015 a peregerina was harassed by was a similar masked man near Belorado:
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/incident-between-belorado-and-tosantos.44023/

So this thread is about another recent report of same sort of incident ?

Just disgusting that women can't walk in peace without worrying about this . I love being on my own . Last year I had a few days on Frances , believe it or not , where I walked almost totally alone . I loved it . That was sept/oct and while others were reporting how busy it was .

 

[Annie Little]

One judge will set the difference between exhibitionism and assault or attack and, of course, it won't have a thing to do with la ley integral de violencia de género.

Yes of course this is true .... in Australia there have at times been outrage about some judges "interpretation" Of what constitutes an attack and very offensive remarks have been made by judges

 

[Annie Little]

Hi there, just curious why you say we shouldnt say 'hit the flasher with their poles'. A spanish man groped me along the camino last year and my first instinct was to hit him with my poles (but i couldnt because he had gotten away). And having my poles did make me feel a bit safer. So is your perspective that it could anger the flasher and make him more dangerous? I am just curious

People have suggested in the past that retaliatory action against the perpetrator has potential to make him more violent and we should just run away. . I personally could not outrun anyone so I carry poles and small tin hairspray outside pack for use if threatened.

 

[notion900]

Hi there, just curious why you say we shouldnt say 'hit the flasher with their poles'. A spanish man groped me along the camino last year and my first instinct was to hit him with my poles (but i couldnt because he had gotten away). And having my poles did make me feel a bit safer. So is your perspective that it could anger the flasher and make him more dangerous? I am just curious

I have seen people (nearly always men, I have to say) post when there has been a flasher 'you should hit him'. As I see it, your priority is your own safety, not meting out punishment. Escalating an incident when it wasn't violent to begin with is likely to make it worse for you, and for other women in the future. The same goes for laughing: women do it out of nerves and embarrassment, but laughing at someone isn't likely to make them gain respect for you right now, or women in future.

If you are attacked or assaulted on the other hand, of course you should respond however you need to, to defend yourself and escape. No one seems to stress enough that if you need to run away or fight back, you will need to drop your pack.

 

[katie@camino]

I have seen people (nearly always men, I have to say) post when there has been a flasher 'you should hit him'. As I see it, your priority is your own safety, not meting out punishment. Escalating an incident when it wasn't violent to begin with is likely to make it worse for you, and for other women in the future. The same goes for laughing: women do it out of nerves and embarrassment, but laughing at someone isn't likely to make them gain respect for you right now, or women in future.

If you are attacked or assaulted on the other hand, of course you should respond however you need to, to defend yourself and escape. No one seems to stress enough that if you need to run away or fight back, you will need to drop your pack.

I see your point and i hadn't really considered the difference between meting out punishment and prioritising safety. Different situations require different responses. Thanks

 

[Pabloke]

When I reported 'Embalsa Man' there was no suggestion by the Guardia that it wasn't a punishable offence. They told me my report was 'for us (i.e. intelligence)' and 'for the magistrate'.

You are free to report whatever you think you have to, that's what I use to advise. Anytime you feel you're a victim of something, report it.

When you report somebody, a judge (a magistrate) will check your report in order to determinate if there is something punishable or not, according to Law and his/her criteria. That's how it works. You can believe it or not, I'm not gonna try to convince anybody. Spanish Law is not like the anglo-saxon Common Law, Spanish Law is all written and everyone is free to consult it.

That's all.

 

[Simone Lucky]

There is continuing concern about incidents affecting female pilgrims. We reiterate the advice given by a number of pilgrim associations and the Spanish authorities:

Before you set out, programme the emergency number 112 into your telephone.

Consider downloading this App issued by the Spanish government:

https://alertcops.ses.mir.es/mialertcops/info/info.xhtml

The app allows anyone in Spain to send an alert from a mobile device "smartphone'"straight to the police..

If you feel threatened or uncomfortable or if you are assaulted in any way TRY TO REMOVE yourself to a place of safety immediately

Call the police – the best number to use is 112 which covers all of Spain (and much of Europe) and which has operators who speak English.

And please, please, REPORT all incidents to the police. Too many of these unlawful aggressions are never reported, which means that the full extent of the problem is hidden from the authorities.

Wayfare, do you know if there is a similar App issued by the French government?

 

[mspath]

Wayfare, do you know if there is a similar App issued by the French government?

The emergency telephone number for France and all of Europe is 112. Add it to your phone now! When you call a multi lingual operator will answer and transfer the call to the nearest local authorities to help you.

 

[Annie Little]

As I see it, your priority is your own

If you are attacked or assaulted on the other hand, of course you should respond however you need to, to defend yourself and escape. No one seems to stress enough that if you need to run away or fight back, you will need to

Personal safety is a reason to be prepared and act as YOU see fit if you are threatened ..... YOU are there others are not and so should not tell you what is right and fit to protect yourself in a situation that presents to YOU

Yes others have suggested dropping pack and running BUT even with that I could not outrun .... as I have said before: they are cowards and I am not ! ... I prefer to have a plan and stand and deliver !....

SUCH a shame this has to even be discussed BUT it must !

 

[Annie Little]

The same goes for laughing: women do it out of nerves and embarrassment, but laughing at someone isn't likely to make them gain respect for you right now, or women in future.

I don't think it is out of nerves or embarrassment ..... it is to show the perpetrator that he is worth laughing at for his cowardly behaviour .... nerves and embarrassment = feeling fear / weakness etc .... its not the case

 

[Simone Lucky]

The emergency telephone number for France and all of Europe is 112. Add it to your phone now! When you call a multi lingual operator will answer and transfer the call to the nearest local authorities to help you.

Thank you

 

[Simone Lucky]

Personal safety is a reason to be prepared and act as YOU see fit if you are threatened ..... YOU are there others are not and so should not tell you what is right and fit to protect yourself in a situation that presents to YOU

Yes others have suggested dropping pack and running BUT even with that I could not outrun .... as I have said before: they are cowards and I am not ! ... I prefer to have a plan and stand and deliver !....

SUCH a shame this has to even be discussed BUT it must !

You are right about these perverts being cowards. I was stalked by a van on my final day into Finisterre. I eventually pulled out my phone held it up and started taking photos, thus taking the power away from that pervert. He put his foot down and couldn't get away fast enough. They depend on you being debilitated by fear and thus powerless. It was very empowering transferring the fear to him.

 

[NewBeginning]

You are right about these perverts being cowards. I was stalked by a van on my final day into Finisterre. I eventually pulled out my phone held it up and started taking photos, thus taking the power away from that pervert. He put his foot down and couldn't get away fast enough. They depend on you being debilitated by fear and thus powerless. It was very empowering transferring the fear to him.

Touche'.

 

[HighlandsHiker]

You are right about these perverts being cowards. I was stalked by a van on my final day into Finisterre. I eventually pulled out my phone held it up and started taking photos, thus taking the power away from that pervert. He put his foot down and couldn't get away fast enough. They depend on you being debilitated by fear and thus powerless. It was very empowering transferring the fear to him.

That same thing (among a few other similar problems related to predation over 2 Caminos) happened to me between Canas and Ciruena on a backroad, and I did the same thing (I've also done that here during training twice). You are exactly right - they assume you are their helpless prey and are very surprised to find that you are not.

 

[notion900]

I just skim-read the Spanish penal code, it is extremely interesting. True that 'exhibitionism' isn't a crime per se, unless to vulnerable groups. But intimidation is. I guess the magistrate would decide where the dividing line lay.

There are other good reasons for reporting all incidents, even if they don't lead to prosecutions. One is that it provides evidence which could support the prosecution of more serious crimes. This was seen in the trial of the man who murdered Denise Pikka Thiem, where previous reports of him assaulting peregrinas were presented. Second, if the sheer number of reports starts to get alarming, the authorities are likely to take notice and this can push for social change. Third, when you make a report in a small town or village, everyone will get to know about it. I got dropped back at the albergue in a Guardia Civil car: no doubt that was the talk of the village. So 'social pressure' can be brought to bear on people who are damaging the reputation and business interests of a village by scaring peregrinas, even if they are not brought to court.

 

[HighlandsHiker]

I just skim-read the Spanish penal code, it is extremely interesting. True that 'exhibitionism' isn't a crime per se, unless to vulnerable groups. But intimidation is. I guess the magistrate would decide where the dividing line lay.

There are other good reasons for reporting all incidents, even if they don't lead to prosecutions. One is that it provides evidence which could support the prosecution of more serious crimes. This was seen in the trial of the man who murdered Denise Pikka Thiem, where previous reports of him assaulting peregrinas were presented. Second, if the sheer number of reports starts to get alarming, the authorities are likely to take notice and this can push for social change. Third, when you make a report in a small town or village, everyone will get to know about it. I got dropped back at the albergue in a Guardia Civil car: no doubt that was the talk of the village. So 'social pressure' can be brought to bear on people who are damaging the reputation and business interests of a village by scaring peregrinas, even if they are not brought to court.

Agreed. I do think that the locals often know about these problem people in their midst, as with the one who murdered Denise, but aren't always able to address it themselves without police involvement.

 

[Deleted member 36903]

There are other good reasons for reporting all incidents, even if they don't lead to prosecutions. One is that it provides evidence which could support the prosecution of more serious crimes. This was seen in the trial of the man who murdered Denise Pikka Thiem, where previous reports of him assaulting peregrinas were presented. Second, if the sheer number of reports starts to get alarming, the authorities are likely to take notice and this can push for social change.

This was exactly what happened about the perpetrator in Castrojerez. I along with other peregrinas made statements for the police. Although this was after returning home - it was only through this forum that we began to see this man was repeat offender and his harassment of women pilgrims was escalating in levels of violence - but action was taken and the man brought to justice. I thank the Guardia Civil and the albergue owner who helped in this case.

 

[notion900]

Some of these men are cowards, but a small minority are extremely dangerous. Laughing at someone exposing themselves when you don't know which, seems to me a risky and pointless tactic. Showing any emotional reaction is exactly what the man wants you to do.

I would like to see some advice written by a professional on this and added to the forum resources. We have a women's safety charity in the UK that @ivar could possibly approach? www.suzylamplugh.org Or is there one in Spain that has a better knowledge of Spanish law?

I would also like a section created on the Crime Watch section specific to women's safety, where all these threads can be collated.

 

[MinaKamina]

I just skim-read the Spanish penal code, it is extremely interesting. True that 'exhibitionism' isn't a crime per se, unless to vulnerable groups. But intimidation is. I guess the magistrate would decide where the dividing line lay.

There are other good reasons for reporting all incidents, even if they don't lead to prosecutions. One is that it provides evidence which could support the prosecution of more serious crimes. This was seen in the trial of the man who murdered Denise Pikka Thiem, where previous reports of him assaulting peregrinas were presented. Second, if the sheer number of reports starts to get alarming, the authorities are likely to take notice and this can push for social change. Third, when you make a report in a small town or village, everyone will get to know about it. I got dropped back at the albergue in a Guardia Civil car: no doubt that was the talk of the village. So 'social pressure' can be brought to bear on people who are damaging the reputation and business interests of a village by scaring peregrinas, even if they are not brought to court.

In the case of Denise the police also investigated all persons who were known to harass pilgrims, including those masturbating when peregrinas pass by.
At the time when I read that, the plural shocked me. The good news is that they keep track of them.
Perhaps the perpetrators are becoming aware of this too, hence the balaclava that was mentioned in the first post of this topic for instance. But with the balaclava and other types of intimidation, they are moving towards a different type of crime.

Once I had problems with a neighbour about a fence. I reported what I considered a threat to the police. Nothing came of it. I received a vague notice and that was all, or so I thought.
Some years later, we put aside our differences and we are now on good terms. Turns out that at the time he was called to the police station where they questioned him about the matter. They weren't very friendly plus he realized that they were aware of whay he was doing.
IMHO this was more effective than any legal case could ever have been. This is another role of the police and it is often far more important for communities than the so called criminal work.

So, report it!

 

[notion900]

Very true @MinaKamina I get the distinct impression that our friends in the Guardia Civil go round and 'have a word' sometimes. And I don't think it is a very civil one!

 

[SabsP]

Very true @MinaKamina I get the distinct impression that our friends in the Guardia Civil go round and 'have a word' sometimes. And I don't think it is a very civil one!

Exacty : I did not mention this on the forum but two years ago, on the Portugues, I saw the Guardia Civil very much on a remote part and surveilling the road. Then I saw them stopping a car ( coming from a small lane ) and they were talking for a long time with the driver.

And a sidenote , this year I was walking into Mansilla de las Mulas on my own ( not one pilgrim in front of me or behind ..I know very rare on the Frances ) and a patrol car drove by and asked if I was ok. I was except from the hail and snow!
Then later in Mansilla I was drinking a coffee and the same Guardia Civil was also in the bar for coffee and remembered me.

Just to say : The Guardia Civil is out there. And yes report every incident.

 

[easygoing]

A post from another forum I'm following (I won't mention the pilgrim's name) about a horrible experience that happened to her today: "It was only day 7 of my Camino and will be my last. Between Torres del Rio and Viana around 1pm.. A naked man wearing nothing but a balaclava jumped out from behind bushes with dick in hand. He was less than a meter away from me. It was disgusting. I was so scared and because i had sore feet from the 25kms i had done that day and the large pack i was carrying, I couldn't move away from him as quickly as i wanted to.
A warning to those walking after 12noon by themselves that there are less people on the track and sometimes you wont see someone for hours which can be a prime opportunity for disgusting people like this or worse."

Please keep walking and don't let the nut jobs win. Thanks for the info I will be walking the same area alone next week. I am an older woman...not my husband who is a member.

 

[kerdi]

If anyone else has luck downloading this, I'd like to know how it was accomplished on an iPhone. ........

Hi
I do not have an iPhone but a smartphone. Download and installation via Google Play-store apeeared to me straight forward

 

[MinaKamina]

Please keep walking and don't let the nut jobs win. Thanks for the info I will be walking the same area alone next week. I am an older woman...not my husband who is a member.

I have been uneasy about this idea of not letting the nut jobs win long before your post, and what I write is not directed specifically at you or your post, but the phrase irks me. IMO this peregrina (and any peregrina) should be free to decide whatever she decides to do after being harassed. We do not know her and we do not know what she needs.
If she walks on: fine.
If she takes the next bus out of the area: fine.
If she returns home: fine.
If she accepts help or declines help: fine.
This is no competition.
The perpetrator has no way of knowing what she decides. He does not win. He simply waits for the next peregrina who is walking alone after midday.
The only thing that does make a difference is reporting to the Police so that they may take action.

If don't let the nut jobs win is taken to the extreme, all women should stay at home or never walk alone, and let this this sexual predator lose big, by making him endlessly wait in vain in those bushes. Women won't do that and the perp thrives on women not giving up.

That said, I hope you have a great Camino, and stay safe.

 

[notion900]

I hope she carried on, because if not, what then? Never hiking again, never going to Spain again?

For me it is like being thrown off a horse, you get right on again. If you wait, it only gets harder.

 

[Peregrinandbearit]

It's nearly 40 years since I left the security of my parents' home. Walking by myself one night at university then was the first time that I experienced fear and vulnerability based on my sex. I wish I could say that fear doesn't concern me when anticipating my walks, but it does.
Women deserve freedom from sexual harassment and assault.

Sorry for that bit of a ramble. Meant just to say that if any women are heading into that stretch, it would be good to have access to a wearable GoPro camera. But then I got mad that we have to think this way, which inspired my preamble.

 

[HighlandsHiker]

Hi
I do not have an iPhone but a smartphone. Download and installation via Google Play-store apeeared to me straight forward

Therein lies the problem, kerdi. They have an app for iPhones (the one that isn't allowing the verification code to transact) and an app for Android-based phones, which is through Google Play. I tried downloading from Google Play, but it tells me that apps from Google Play don't work on iOS based devices. Maybe there's some sort of workaround, but I've given up and will just count on 112 when there's cell reception. I do appreciate your trying to help, though!

 

[Connie Canada]

Photo was a brilliant strategy Simone Lucky - The only "exposure" they truly fear is losing their anonymity and being recognizable to the authorities.

 

[deebubbster]

A post from another forum I'm following (I won't mention the pilgrim's name) about a horrible experience that happened to her today: "It was only day 7 of my Camino and will be my last. Between Torres del Rio and Viana around 1pm.. A naked man wearing nothing but a balaclava jumped out from behind bushes with dick in hand. He was less than a meter away from me. It was disgusting. I was so scared and because i had sore feet from the 25kms i had done that day and the large pack i was carrying, I couldn't move away from him as quickly as i wanted to.
A warning to those walking after 12noon by themselves that there are less people on the track and sometimes you wont see someone for hours which can be a prime opportunity for disgusting people like this or worse."

Thanks so much for this warning. As a first time peregrina planning to start out in September, I will very much take this to heart. I was, at first, discouraged by this news as I plan to walk alone and had not heard anything before this about women being subject to harassment. After thinking on it for a day, I decided not to let this news ruin my Camino as then the harassers win. I will make note of this location though so I can take precautions when in the area and wondering if incidents like this have been reported at any other locations along the frances route. I think that having my walking poles and phone camera at the ready will make me feel better. Anyone with any advice about types of protective sprays that can be carried?

 

[notion900]

had not heard anything before this about women being subject to harassment

If @ivar or the moderators would create a women's safety section in Crime Watch this kind of info would be easier to find on here. At present it is all over the place.

 

[wayfarer]

It is already in the forum, its called "Personal Safety" You are posting on it...

 

[trecile]

Therein lies the problem, kerdi. They have an app for iPhones (the one that isn't allowing the verification code to transact) and an app for Android-based phones, which is through Google Play. I tried downloading from Google Play, but it tells me that apps from Google Play don't work on iOS based devices. Maybe there's some sort of workaround, but I've given up and will just count on 112 when there's cell reception. I do appreciate your trying to help, though!

Since iPhones and Android phones use different operating systems the apps are not interchangeable. You must use apps developed for iOS on an iPhone

 

[HighlandsHiker]

Since iPhones and Android phones use different operating systems the apps are not interchangeable. You must use apps developed for iOS on an iPhone

I made an earlier post on this thread. That's what I'm saying. The iPhone app - for iPhones - is not working - on iPhones.

 

[dailycamino]

Can't imagine any community being delighted that this is happening. Also, this was an attack by some who jumped from the bushes. Wasn't standing in the window of his own home or anything. Huge difference. Report it and let them take action. We aim to achieve a safe Camino for everyone, not to protect the assumed rights of flashers.

Spain has an extensive law against sexist crimes: la ley integral contra la violencia de género, 2004.
Peregrinas are harassed by exhibitionists because they are women and they can fully claim protection by the law.

delitos means "crimes'

 

[HedaP]

Interested to read this thread. Walked alone on the Frances early this season and very different experience to last time. I had two instances. One on the river route to Burgos and the other from an owner of an alburgue in Triacastella. Didn't report either for a variety of reasons including: A) Nothing but circumstancial evidence. B) Did think about raising my phone to take a pic but thought it might trigger an aggressive response. C) Poor Spanish language skills, D) My understanding is there is no law in Spain that covers exposing your dick even if jerking off (This law may be good for many men on the camino, especially those who think it is OK to piss at any time regardless of who is following!), and E) So exhausted most afternoons that finding the time to report was beyond me.
Can I add the Guardia Civil had a very high profile on this year's camino.
And also that neither event stopped me walking but I can understand why it could very well stop a camino.

 

[notion900]

@HedaP you could review the albergue in gronze.com and mention the behaviour.

 

[notion900]

I think it's too cold here for men to stand around with their nobs out.

 

[Deleted member 36903]

I think it's too cold here for men to stand around with their nobs out.

In Scotland it would definitely be a health risk compounded with the predation of midges, but it has always been a problem in rural parts of England.

 

[Phillypilgrim]

I understand this type of encounter can be extremely distressing... But there is something I have long wondered about: haven't any of you, peregrinas, come across it in your home country?

No, and I live in Philadelphia Center City.

 

[Annie Little]

. I will make note of this location though so I can take precautions when in the area and wondering if incidents like this have been reported at any other locations along the frances route. I think that having my walking poles and phone camera at the ready will make me feel better. Anyone with any advice about types of protective sprays that can be carried?

It is a good plan to use general precautions and also take note of any particular areas that have been mentioned ...

For personal protection sept 16 .... I had my poles and also carried a small tin of hairspray on the outside pocket of my pack ... if someone were to have approached me with obvious intent I would have sprayed into the eyes and then used poles on groin .... others have mentioned dropping pack and run ... as I cannot outrun anyone that would not be an option for me ...

I had a safe and wonderful Camino but there were days when I was totally alone which was wonderful ... too bad we have to consider what may happen ..

Buen Camino

 

[domigee]

No, and I live in Philadelphia Center City.

Thanks for replying. I am amazed. (I have never been to the US)

 

[KinkyOne]

...
I had a safe and wonderful Camino but there were days when I was totally alone which was wonderful ... too bad we have to consider what may happen ..

Not only nowadays we have to consider dangers of walking alone because it happened in "early times" as well. I think there are many ways to spread the word about perpetrators etc. For females an males alike. A knife on the throat is a knife on a throath...

It's nice that we can talk about it here, give some heads up, share experiences and learn. Thanks for posting!

 

[HedaP]

@HedaP you could review the albergue in gronze.com and mention the behaviour.

Did try to post a review on gronze.com because that albergue owner is just plain creepy but it's all in Spanish. I'm on an iPad which may not be showing me the English option?
It would be good to post a warning. The owner walked in on me while I was preparing for a shower in the women's bathroom knowing full well that I was in there and that the only place to prepare for a shower is outside the shower because as per bloody usual there's no space in the shower except for showering. The albergue was practically empty. Only other woman was sleeping. He had to walk past my bed to get to the bathrooms. He'd checked me in 10-15 minutes before and allocated my bed. Actually he did try to put me beside an older sleeping Spanish bloke in an alcove in a virtually empty room with a few pilgrims spread out across the entire space so I told him I would prefer to be by the bathroom. So he had to walk right past my bed to get to the women's bathroom.
There was no reason for him to burst open the door of the women's bathroom. He did not knock. He did not call out. I have absolutely no doubt it was intentional. But of course no proof.
And interestingly when I left early the next morning (without his breakfast which he was just setting up because I refused to pay him an extra cent) it was at the same time as the other woman who had been sleeping. Without me saying anything to her at all she said, "I'm glad you were there, I rang my husband last night and told him the guy running the albergue was creepy".
BTW I made a point of talking to the older Spanish guy once he'd woken up because it was all a bit weird and I was a bit rattled by it. He was totally delightful. We happily crossed paths several times over the next few days. Me with pigeon Spanish and him with pigeon English. He's just one of my happy memories.

 

[notion900]

@HedaP Yes it's a Spanish website, that's why it's worth posting a review there, because the hospitalero will most likely see it.
Just a line or two of my bad Spanish would do it. Like 'Hospitalero extraño - mientras duchabame en los baños de mujeres, el entró sin previo aviso'

 

[HedaP]

@HedaP Yes it's a Spanish website, that's why it's worth posting a review there, because the hospitalero will most likely see it.
Just a line or two of my bad Spanish would do it. Like 'Hospitalero extraño - mientras duchabame en los baños de mujeres, el entró sin previo aviso'

If its only in Spanish is it worth

@HedaP Yes it's a Spanish website, that's why it's worth posting a review there, because the hospitalero will most likely see it.
Just a line or two of my bad Spanish would do it. Like 'Hospitalero extraño - mientras duchabame en los baños de mujeres, el entró sin previo aviso'

Oh gosh. OK I will try. Might need to ask my Spanish teacher for some help.

 

[patk]

A post from another forum I'm following (I won't mention the pilgrim's name) about a horrible experience that happened to her today: "It was only day 7 of my Camino and will be my last. Between Torres del Rio and Viana around 1pm.. A naked man wearing nothing but a balaclava jumped out from behind bushes with dick in hand. He was less than a meter away from me. It was disgusting. I was so scared and because i had sore feet from the 25kms i had done that day and the large pack i was carrying, I couldn't move away from him as quickly as i wanted to.
A warning to those walking after 12noon by themselves that there are less people on the track and sometimes you wont see someone for hours which can be a prime opportunity for disgusting people like this or worse."

This is just horrible! But don't let it put you off your Camino. For every creep there are angels!
Maybe walk close to others for a few days!!

 

[David Tallan]

How overblown was my fear of being attacked or robbed on my journey? If there was much less violent crime in Spain than in the United States, how illogical was it that I wanted to carry a carbon-tipped weapon on the Camino, when I would have never considered carrying one walking around Maine? By getting rid of the padlock and the can of mace and the carbon-tipped pen flashlight, I had relieved my pack of weight. But as importantly, I had also dropped some psychological baggage—another one of those things that “just ain’t so” as Mark Twain would say. I decided there was perhaps more cognitive dissonance going on in my life than I knew.

So the next day when I got to Logrono, I found myself at the very swanky F & G Hotel Logrono where I got a pilgrim rate single room for 50 euros. I sat at the writing desk in my room and went online with my iPad to look up international crime and murder statistics. Here is what I found:

You are safer walking the Camino in Spain than any day you spend in the United States.

Rape per 100,000 is 3.4 in Spain and 27.3 in the United States.

The murder rate is 0.9 in Spain and 5 in the United States

Violent crime rate is 10.4 in Spain and 88.8 in the United States

And if you are walking the Camino, you spend absolutely no time in an automobile, which is the number one way to get hurt or killed. Your biggest risk on the Camino is a bad blister!

As I left Logrono the next day, I was about a quarter of the way into my journey as it was about 600 km now to Santiago de Compostela. I carried less baggage and I was walking lighter, beginning to glide.

Anxiety is all about projecting the self into the future. Fear is the part of you that is hopelessly trapped in the past.

Not to disagree with the statistics you provide or the general message that the Camino is safer than many places pilgrims normally live. But your statement "Your biggest risk on the Camino is a bad blister!" seems unreasonably dismissive. While it is rare, people have been attacked and even killed on the Camino. People have posted here about the assaults they suffered and I don't doubt their reports or that they were much more serious than a bad blister. People have also been run over by vehicles and died that way (although this is getting less frequent as the routes are changing and pedestrian underpasses or overpasses are being built to support pilgrims; yet it still happens). People have died from exposure to the elements and heat related problems. People have suffered significantly from other injuries and health concerns. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Putting the risk in perspective is a good thing. Dismissing people's real experiences (to my eyes at least) isn't so productive. Your mileage may vary, of course.

 

[Kat Kostrzewska]

I think that it may be difficult for many pilgrims man and women to see the Camino as moderately safe trail. The Camino is so special and people try to be good to each other, so I really understand that approach. I really do. It is just hard to believe.

But the situations crop up. Last year I was sexually harassed twice during one Camino. Yep, twice. That was not the first time https://caminodesantiagobybike.co.uk/route/safety-missing-the-knights-templar/

So you know - I love the Camino, I know it by heart, but safety is a bit of an issue for me.

 

[VNwalking]

As I mentioned in another thread somewhere, in 2015 I experienced a slow 'drive by' just after Viana - it scared me, and I should have reported it, but didn't. And I've met exhibitionists twice, as well as having a run-in with the old guy in Castrojerez. But I still perceive of the camino as relatively safe. Because it is. At the same time it's worth remembering that no-where on the the planet is completely safe: there is no such thing as a 'safe zone,' and it's unrealistic to think that there is.

The (sadly) run-of-the-mill casual mysogynists and exhibitionists are on the camino, as they are everywhere.
And rings of thieves in albergues follow the crowds. They are a 'thing,' s they have been since time immemorial. Which is why it's common sense wisdom to take as few valuables as possible and to wear the ones you have close to your body.

We as women need courage and patience and resilience just to live. It's exhausting, yes.
Adding a victim mentality on top of that only adds to the exhaustion of dealing with the creeps.

From your blog, Kat:

"I met an exhibitionist while walking alone in the middle of nowhere, my bicycle along with several others was damaged by vandals, I spent a sleepless night with thieves in an albergue and never mind attracting unwanted attention while testing an alternative route for cyclists. Saying this I would like to underline that I came out of all these accidents unscathed and the deeper sense of the events was rather inspirational. However, while it was happening it was traumatizing."

It's beautiful that you could do that. The challenge is to carry the inspiration forward and not the trauma and unreasonable fear that can come from that. I would guess few of us women who have walked alone have not at least encountered exhibitionists. Some people respond to that by wanting to arm themselves at all times while others shrug and move on. Feeling how this all affects us first, before reflexively caving in to fear and defensiveness is the significant challenge.

 

[Kat Kostrzewska]

WNwalking thank you for your beautiful post