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Walking without gadgets.

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Finisterre

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Time of past OR future Camino
Sarria 2001,
Porto 2006,
Valenca 2008,
Finisterre 2010,
SJdPP 2012,
Tui 2014.

No plans to return, yet.
Phones, iPads, Cameras, Music Players, Games. Facebook updates, live blogging from the path. I think they undermine pilgrimage. I forgo the electronics personally and choose pilgrimage that isn't diverted from an exploration of self by playing with gadgets. Cameras for example rewrite your experience as snapshots. Phones turn your mind to fleeting conversation with friends. Etc.

I know many people will agree but still take their phone. I have not taken a phone and it is better. Do consider it.

To be brutally honest, I think gadgets turn you into a tourist.

Feel free to disagree.
 
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But I also want people to get the most from their efforts. I suspect social media are changing how we relate. Changing who we are. And I am not convinced that people think as deeply as they did because they are often engaged in a shallow pool of chit chat.
 
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Finisterre said:
To be brutally honest, I think gadgets turn you into a tourist.
Click to expand...
So do the every evening showers, the warm place to take a rest, the many bars with plenty of drinks and food... Was it all there for the first real pilgrims?
Not mentioning our comfortable walking clothes and gear we use these days.
I took my phone, but it was switched off during the day. In the evening I checked my text messages (if there were any) just to see if everything went good at home...
 
At sYates

Isn't the point of pilgrimage to be judgemental on reflection while stretching yourself?

I expect it is being judgemental of others that makes you blanch?
 
Koi dream.

Isn't the 'checking in' keeping you in your comfort zone?
Edit(psychological)
 
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We are all accepting of the physical stretching as being worthwhile.

Showers, food, beds, they are a comfort, yes. Your point is valid.

We could scourge ourselves and some do but it is tiredness and repetition and an examination of self while stripping back the ease of everyday life that seems to have most effect.
 
Koidream said:
But, am I less pilgrim and more tourist because I care of the left behinds?
Click to expand...
No. Your care makes you human.

I think you should be more alone for the duration of the journey.
 
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At home I have my friends and for a forgetful oldie (actually I have always been the same) they serve as my memory. Unfortunately for me on the Camino no camera = no memories. Oh woe is me! Some have to keep in touch for various reasons whether they wish to or not. Such are our lives and responsibilities. A pilgrim has to do what a pilgrim has to do, and that is not always just drinking cafe con leche and vino tinto. So each to their own as long as we remember not to intrude on others peace?
 
My two cents worth...
I think Camino is deeply personal experience... If lack of gadgets makes you enjoy it more than more power to you.

My personal Camino experience was greatly enhanced because I carried a smartphone.

I wish I took even more photos and videos and wrote even lengthier blog entries because I wanted to preserve and share as much of it as possible.
Having a guidebook and map app on the phone saved weight as well as helped me on few occasions I got lost.
The translate app helped me interact with locals more and allowed me to explore more of local gastronomy.
... Just to name a few reasons why
Oh and as to being alone... I think that fabulous people one meets along the Way are of the best things about the Camino
 
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I am suggesting people consider not taking gadgets and I have reasons why not
. I don't make rules. Being a tourist is a perfectly valid lifestyle choice.

Please yourselves.

Al I have never been much into cameras or memories.
Less is more.
 
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A lot of drinks and meals i've shared with fellow pilgrims were more then wonderfull pools of hilarious chit chat.

I'd go barking mad if every single minute of my day should be spend so serious as you picture it.

I love chit chat. Pre and post social media.
 
Finisterre said:
I am suggesting people consider not taking gadgets and I have reasons why not
. I don't make rules. Being a tourist is a perfectly valid lifestyle choice.

Please yourselves.

Al I have never been much into cameras or memories.
Less is more.
Click to expand...

Do you consider yourself a pilgrim?


Sometimes less is just that, less.
 
I have used the camino as a holiday destination and as a means of self exploration.

You pays your money and you takes your choice.
 
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If you have not taken a phone, how do you know it is "better"?
I have taken a phone and it is better.....just so you know......please consider it.

Also, I have taken an iPad mini.....it is better. It allows me to take notes on the trip on a blog which keeps a record of my recollections for years after, including pictures. It also allows me to do away with paper books, maps, etc. Do consider it.

To be brutally honest, I think that turning the clock back "just enough", perhaps 30 years, is hilarious when one is making the distinction of whether you are a "real pilgrim" or a "tourist".
As others have mentioned, why not turn back the clock 1100 years? Then you would be authentic! I assume you fly or drive to the beginning of your pilgrimage and don't walk all the way from your doorstep? Sounds touristy to me. Please reconsider.
Do you use modern facilities like running water, sanitation, etc? Now *that* is touristy too. It detracts from a real pilgramage. Please reconsider, as then it would enhance your "alone" time.....guaranteed.

The other benefits of carrying a phone are:
It acts as a sort of talisman, warding off people who are super judgemental on their pilgramage about things like phones and iPads.
It gives me a private chuckle when those same "authentic pilgrims", 500 km into the walk, ask to borrow the phone.
 
Canucks said:
If you have not taken a phone, how do you know it is "better"?
Click to expand...

HAHAHAHA, Great Logic! Sometimes life can be soooo simple
 
Finisterre said:
Al I have never been much into cameras or memories.
Click to expand...
That's fine for you and maybe many others, just not for me. I hope my comments before and here are not seen to be contentious by anyone as that is not my way. I was merely expressing possible reasons for carrying gadgets. Each of us travel our on life's path how we see best for ourselves. Throughout my life I have always held the belief that we are the sum of our experiences, good or bad, that they evolve us and should be given due recognition. So for one who has "a selective memory" to say the least any aid mémoire that's available is more than welcomed.
 
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Some of the responses do seem to be excessively defensive. It's only an opinion.

I have taken phones, books, maps, a kindle, even a camera phone and a phrase book. I have also not taken much at all and slept rough. Slept in Paradors, and in ditches. Having the choice does tend to make the ditch easier to bear.

If you don't want to see yourself as a tourist define yourself as a pilgrim. I don't mind how you want to see your experience. I know how I have found my various trips and I think I gained by not carrying gadgets when I chose not to.
 
I recognize this as a troll...but what the heck, I'll bite the hook.
Technically speaking what is a "gadget"? Don't know how you got to your pilgrimage starting points, or how you got back home from your finishing points, but I would guess it was via plane, train or automobile. All of which are "gadgets" if what you mean by gadget is a modern, high-tech device. If you did travel to and from your Caminos by commercial means, "gadgets" were used to search for and book your flights, train trip, etc. If you used a credit card to pay for the travel, gadgets were again used. What type of clothing did you wear on your Caminos? What type of shoes? What was your pack constructed of? I would guess those items were manufactured of modern, synthetic materials and in all probability made in a poorer foreign country than where you reside, by people being paid poverty wages. Kinda sucks to think of it that way, but that's reality buddy. So it's okay to use "gadgets" to get to the Camino and to go home from the Camino, but not on the Camino? That opinion is almost comical in nature.
And I suppose this may be a bit hard to swallow, but the Spanish consider you to be a tourist, despite your best intent not to be. Your lack of "gadgets" is probably not noticed by them and they probably won't hold you in a higher regard if they knew you didn't use them. In all likelihood they would probably wonder why the gringo didn't bring a camera or cellphone with him.
No offense, but your argument holds about as much water as the proverbial sieve, but of course feel free to disagree.
 
Camino Way markers in Bronze
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.

"Feel free to disagree"

I do.

Provocative? Judgemental? Dictatorial?
But which, if any, is right and which wrong?

You and I are individuals with freedom of choice.
There is no diktat from on high that says what enhances or diminishes a pilgrimage.

I will take a phone, pad, notebook and a camera.
Will I use one or more?
Who knows?

"Less is more" Mies van der Rohe
"Less is a bore" Robert Venturi
 
Why would you bed down for the night in a ditch, unless you got too pissed and that just happened to be where you passed out?
Rule number one when living in the "field" is always place your sleeping/bivouac area on higher ground. Ditches flood. Ditches are repositories for filth, bacteria and such and also wildlife such as snakes, rodents etc use them as travel routes. Don't ever bed down for the night in a ditch. To all those future peregrinos reading this thread, and contemplating not living like a tourist while walking the Camino....do not, I repeat, do not sleep in ditches. There is plenty of higher ground you can stay on, or you can just pay five euros and sleep in an albergue.
 
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I'm enjoying this thread, but I can't help thinking that if we're not careful , it's going to end up the same way as the 'coconut water' thread ended up a while back.
 
What would a pilgrim of medieval times have done? I think many had to get by with very little, but would have used every comfort and gadget available to them had it been available. Heck, the ones who could afford it rode horses and brought their servants along.
 
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Well, since I've read and enjoyed other comments by Finisterre, I don't think this is just a provocative troll post, and I'll bite as well. For me, the two extremes articulated here are equally unsatisfying. I find myself falling somewhere in the middle, along with the vast majority of people who have posted. I don't like the judgmental "true pilgrim vs. tourist" line, nor do I like the "it's your Camino, do it your way" line. Both are arbitrary, IMO. As Finisterre himself recognizes, his line between tourist and pilgrim is "gadgets." Others would say sleeping in beds makes you a tourist, for others using Jacotrans, eating in restaurants or sleeping in hotels is the line between authentic and fraud.

Then on the "it's your camino" side of the spectrum, there are of course lines drawn there as well. If we say it's "your camino," are we saying we endorse any and all behavior by people walking? Of course not. Maybe what we're referring to is that we think it's ok for you to take your gadgets, sleep in a hotel, take a taxi for the last few km when you are tired, have your pack carried, take buses to skip the "boring parts," make reservations, or walk without money and beg for your upkeep. But I think that even the "it's your camino" folks won't all agree on whether those things are all ok. But there are certainly behaviors and habits that have been described on many posts, not involving illegal or dangerous activity but just things most people on this forum agree are unacceptable and would not fit within the bounds of what "it's your camino" gives you license to do. But my point is that for each one of us, that line falls at a different point on the spectrum.

So that takes me to the conclusion that as the camino becomes more and more and more popular, and as the infrastructure expands to make it easy for more and more people to walk who would never have walked when places to eat were few and far between, and when the accommodations were roof and floor in an unheated room, we have to learn to get along with a lot of people with different attitudes and should stop trying to be the Camino Police. And I personally think we should stop with the "it's your camino" rhetoric because I think it unrealistically leads people to expect that no one on the camino makes any judgments about anything.

Just my two cents. Buen camino, Laurie
 
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Finisterre said:
To be brutally honest, I think gadgets turn you into a tourist.

Feel free to disagree.
Click to expand...

Thought provoking thread Finisterre.
I don't like labels and my guess is most others do not either. Hence the defensive replies when reading that you would define them as a tourist for using "gadgets".
Personally, I freely disagree with your logic. But I respect your right to your opinion.

Lastly, I have to take my phone so I can use Ivars new phone app.
 
I feel badly and actually pity any peregrino/peregrina that passes judgement on how another one does their Camino. My suggestion is taking a good, long look into yourself, because obviously if you walked the Camino for that introspect, it failed. Maybe go volunteer to work in a third world country. Build water wells, help grow crops there, etc. Something constructive for others may help you more.
Can fellow pilgrims be annoying at time? Sure. I'd be lying if I said they weren't, but to throw a stone? Nope, ain't gonna do that.
 
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Well, this post caused a lot of excitement! I too am somewhere in the middle about gadgets. I like to walk along without gadgets invading my walking space/ time but I'm so happy to have the opportunity to connect with my family and friends at the end of the day. It keeps me going and I really appreciate staying close to them while I'm so far away. Also, as a woman travelling alone, it gives me a small extra measure of perceived safety. My children appreciate knowing where I am and that I'm still trekking along. I'm not sure I am a "true pilgrim" but I love that I am able to do this and am grateful for everything that makes it possible for me to do so: airplanes, great shoes, wool socks, restaurants and accommodations and my smartphone/ reader/ communicator. Oh and credit cards and the internet. I believe that I wouldn't even know this was possible for me if it wasn't for the internet.
I am grateful for so many things, some of them are the things that make a month long trek possible. Some of them are my wonderfully supportive friends and family, most of whom wonder if I have a screw loose to do this but still support me nonetheless.
I appreciate that everyone has their own needs to manage the Camino and hope that part of my growth is acceptance and tolerance of other's views and perspectives. I know that the more I am able to do that, the calmer and happier I am in life. It just keeps getting better. And for that, I am extra grateful.
 
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I do hope that St. Paul won't mind me riffing on his letter to the Corinthians (the end of # 10). It was a reading at yesterday's liturgy and fresh to mind when I read the OP.

“Give no offense to True Pilgrims or to Tourists or to Seekers of Camino Knowledge, just as we try to please everyone in everything we do, not seeking our own glorification, but that of many, that they may be granted a meaningful Camino.”

Seems to me that is the spirit of the Camino - - and of this forum for the most part.

B
 
peregrina2000 said:
... I don't like the judgmental "true pilgrim vs. tourist" line, nor do I like the "it's your Camino, do it your way" line.
...
Click to expand...

Laurie I've paraphrased you a little but your point rang very true to me... I'm definitely in the gadgets camp and this conversation has happened before so I'm just going to enjoy reading the different opinions of others... but I did want to say one of the very nice evenings I had on the CF was marred greatly by a man who decided to lecture me on not being a true pilgrim because I had used Jacotrans.

We were coming down from O'Cebreiro and had stopped in a wonderful albergue with a wonderful round eating hall … Fronfria maybe? I think somewhere before Triacastle? Anyway - it was fabulous place and wonderful hosts.

I had used Jacotrans on the day I walked to Cruz de Fero as I'd been having big problems with cramp and we hoped that not having a pack would make life a bit easier.

This chap said I could never be a true pilgrim unless I only stayed in albergues, never took and bus or a taxi and carried my own pack all the way. He lectured me for several minutes. When he stopped to ask my opinon I quietly explained that I took medication that kept me alive and I was walking the Camino to celebrate life, following a bout of cancer... the drugs I take have side effects and as I really wanted to complete the CF in one piece I decided it was better to be prudent… and use Jacotrans. I then asked him if this meant that I could be counted as a real pilgrim after all... he never answered and he changed the subject.
 
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I was provocative. I knew it. The 'tourists carry gadgets' was naughty of me. I wanted to raise an eyebrow and I want people to consider what they bring with them when setting out on what for many is a trip of a lifetime.

I had one holiday on the Portuguese where my companion was in constant communication with his business as we walked. Being informed several times a day that he had just sold another four hundred pounds worth of contracting services was too worldly for me. I wanted to relax into the landscape imagining times gone by.

I do feel that the immediacy of modern communication and the mediation of experience through the digital gizmo does detract from the experience of new lands and people. If you are not prepared to put your normal life aside how will you gain the space to allow other more numinous (secular or divine) aspects of a life on the road to gain a foothold in your psyche?

And yes I do judge people when I meet them.
 
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And in response to lesBrass

Surely what makes a pilgrim is the attitude brought to the endeavour?
 
Finisterre said:
Phones, iPads, Cameras, Music Players, Games. Facebook updates, live blogging from the path. I think they undermine pilgrimage... Feel free to disagree.
Click to expand...

Though your comment has not been received with a standing ovation, I know other pilgrims who sees things like you do.
Both my two pilgrimages were long-distance, one walking and the other cycling. I was away from home for more than 3 months the first time and for 7 weeks the second. Both times the health of my mother was not good. I wanted to be reachable, therefore took along a mobile phone (not a smart phone). This way I could also make accommodation reservations, as I prefer to know where I will be staying when I am tired on arrival. I turned on the phone twice a day - when I got up and for a short time in the evening, but never while I was walking.
I didn't have music or internet access with me. To me these things would be a distraction. I don't really see the problem with a camera; the main reason I did not take one was its weight.
 
.....

I think I feel sorry for that chap.

Seems to me he may be in that place where you judge people by their behaviour rather than trying to understand the motivation or attitude behind the behaviour before measuring them against our own values.
 
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Perhaps sometimes people just want to express their ego, provoke others.
Sometimes people want their opinions or experiences to be the thruth, and nothing but..
I think the tourist-pilgrim dichotomy isn't real in most cases. Sometimes I perform as perhaps 'a pilgrim' would, sometimes however the same me performs as 'a tourist' does. Why differ, why even combine this with the kind of shoes I wear to determine if I'm a real pilgrim?
Just let everyone be who he/she is, your experiences are yours, you pilgrimage is yours, your mobile is yours.
And I agree with peregrina2000, my ego was stronger then my mind in providing this response.
 
Standing ovation!

Lol.


I knew I would raise some hackles but decided it was a conversation I wanted to have.
 
Finisterre said:
Standing ovation!

Lol.


I knew I would raise some hackles but decided it was a conversation I wanted to have.
Click to expand...

There is a whole lot of "i" and "me" in all you say.
 
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Are you one of those people @LesBrass was talking about? That walks around on the camino telling others what they are doing wrong and that they are merely tourists and blablabla? Carry your pack, dont this, do that, i know, listen to me ect ect....

Is that you!
 
Judge? You probably don't judge them. In all likelihood you develop an opinion about them. I think we all do that. But judge? Nah....
 
Walter, a camera creates memories, and those are the memories you choose to snap. You risk the loss of the time between exposures and the sights and sounds that you would more naturally lay away. A photo limits your experience.

For example, cuckoo calls in the Portuguese Spring. I can vividly hear them still. The noise of the cars and water gurgling behind me, the smells, as I brought my focus to bear, standing silent, holding focus for ten minutes. How much of that would come back to me if I had a photo of a bird in the distance?

How many people walked past texting or listening to a gizmo?

There has been some work done on memory, I am not wrong.
 
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I applaud you for your tact and restraint. When he asked for an opinion I would have probably told him that in my opinion he was an @$$!*%&........
 
Hey Dutch. In general I mind my own business and I would try not to jump to conclusions. So far on this thread I have said that I find the flavour of the camino is enhanced when I carry no gadgets and think people should consider forgoing theirs.

Why are you so keen to take offense? or give it?
 

Finisterre - you certainly got a bit of a reaction to your post

Sorry to hear about your own problems... it takes a while to get over it all but as you say ... Stay postive and live... I hope you stay well and stay strong
 
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Finisterre said:
Walter, a camera creates memories, and those are the memories you choose to snap. You risk the loss of the time between exposures and the sights and sounds that you would more naturally lay away. A photo limits your experience.

.
Click to expand...

And what if somebody REALLLLLLY loves taking pics? Then it does not limit them, it enriches them and with the pics they take, they might even enrich the lives of others as well.
Unfortunately you seem to forget all the other possibilities, but your own.
 
Are you offended?
 
Finisterre said:
Phones, iPads, Cameras, Music Players, Games. Facebook updates, live blogging from the path....
Click to expand...

And I said I wasn't going to reply But I have another story that always makes me smile.

I have a kindle app on my phone and I was reading on my bunk one evening... laying on my back and holding my phone in front of me like a book. A young chap from Canada started looking at me rather oddly and with a bit of an unhappy look on his face. I could see him gazing at me and I tried to concentrate on the words and not his face. After a little while he called across a bit exasperated... Why are you filming me!!

We all laughed afterwards but he'd assumed I was holding up the camera at him... pesky phones
 
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Dutch, no. But I think you might be.
 

I doubt that the half dozen photos I might take each day if I had a camera with me could kill off my sound and smell memories (of which I have many). That's overstretching the argument.
There is little doubt that the flood of information we are exposed to these days causes problems and challenges. People working in education will confirm this. But the solution is not trying to get rid of what we cannot get rid off anyway. It's about dealing with modern technologies in a way that e.g. avoids "undermining the pilgrimage" as you call it, and I believe that's possible.
As a pilgrim I always carry the backpack myself and I never use motorised transport. But unlike some purists I use escalators in shopping centres and lifts if ever I end up in a hotel. That's the way I like to do my pilgrimages, and I don't feel these things undermine anything. I have no problem with people who have their luggage transported. And I would just stay away from a guy who is online all day to manage his stock exchange investments.
 
Dutch said:
There is a whole lot of "i" and "me" in all you say.
Click to expand...

I am trying to be non accusative. You know, like in therapy?
 
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Finisterre said:
. So far on this thread I have said that I find the flavour of the camino is enhanced when I carry no gadgets and think people should consider forgoing theirs. Why are you so keen to take offense?
?
Click to expand...

But you also stated that people with gadgets are tourists. And considered that to be a "brutally honest" assessment. You see, many people here consider the term tourist a bit derogatory, that a pilgrimage is something of a higher call. It would appear you feel the same, and therein you offended some people when you pronounced them to be mere tourists because of their gadgets.
 
Yes.

I said that. And I do think that being a pilgrim is different to being a tourist, harder. I think what you get out of life is related to what you put in.

The camino is being commodified. Capitalism writ small. And it is up to you to choose what you want to pay. Imagine you video conferenced with your family each evening. Would that be in the tradition of pilgrimage?

The Way is our version of Big Brother. We launch ourselves into the company of strangers and face challenges. We look for community and life affirmation on our voyage. And in big Brother they don't let you phone home because it is more effective as an immersive experience.
 
I feel very free to disagree.

It occurs to me that some people in the 'no gadgets' camp feel the need to spout their doctrine and denigrate those of us who have a different opinion. This never seems to work in reverse - those of us who like our gadgets are more than happy to accept that others have a right to a different opinion. We don't feel the need to convert gadget-free proponents to our way of thinking. Why should we? What difference does it make to me if someone else wants to walk without technology? Absolutely none. I don't care if you want to do things your way - so why does it matter to you if I value my gadgets and the communication they allow, so long I don't invade your space with them?

Why do you think that adults who have gone to the effort to arrange their camino, which is likely to be one of the biggest and bravest decisions they have made, need to be advised by you about how to conduct themselves. Why can't we enjoy our differences without making judgements?
 
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Am I too" thick" that I don't understand what this whole thread is about?

Cheers Ivar to remind us of forum rule 1....

And yups I can be a pilgrim one day and the next day a tourist...If I'm true to myself and nice and honest to others I'm sure ALL is ok.

And yes I will always walk with a cellphone...I would not consider myself a good daughter if I could not be in contact with my mum.

Btw Lent starts wednesday...a time to reflect and let go...and hold on ....
 
There is only me in the no gadget camp. I happily accept that sometimes I do a camino as a holiday. It is a perfectly valid lifestyle choice. I also think that isolating yourself from your support group is a choice that leads to a richer experience. I have done both. Have you?

Edit, I am not getting cross, just slightly frustrated that people refuse to accept that their support networks influence the way they perceive the world and that exposure changes perception, in and out.
 
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Just what is the "tradition of pilgrimage"? I imagine that opinion would be quite varied. Can't really say that came to mind on either of my Caminos.
Never watched that show, "Big Brother". Don't quite see the interest in it, and it seems to be a boring thing to watch.
Lived in communal settings and hiked distances with a pack long before I ever walked the Camino. Aside from sore knees due to my current physical condition of TMB (too many birthdays ) I never found it to be too much of a challenge, but meeting and living with (even for short term periods) different people is always cool.
 

For me Finisterre... And again very personal : isolating myself from my support group ( mum,partner and friends ) would make me not a better person...indeed it would make me a way more poorer emotional person...and so the Camino would not enrich me but would me make more shallow and not a nice person to be with in the first place.
 
Finisterre said:
. Imagine you video conferenced with your family each evening. Would that be in the tradition of pilgrimage?
.
Click to expand...

Yes, I think if Bishop Godescalc, the first official pilgrim, had video conferencing available on his trip from LePuy in the year 951 he would have used it. He used everything he could to inform the world of his trip, including building this cathedral to commemorate it.

 
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