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cjm said:Hi - can I have thoughts on if walking/hiking poles would help with the walk? I was thinking of taking a pair of light weight adjustable poles. CJM
ria said:@abbeydore: what is special about pacerpoles? very curious: there seems to be something unique, but i can not really figure out what it is.
ria
I am able to accomplish all these with my poles dangling from the wrist straps, so the poles are not major physical barriers to activity (as to mental barriers, I just don't know).look at maps, use the camera, blow my nose etc.
As a newbie I'm forced to ask if that also holds going over the Pyrenees from SJPdP?Nicholas Moody said:The terrain doesn't warrant them either, in my opinion, as the camino is on good track or road most of the way, without steep gradients.
Can't answer that as I came over the Somport Pass.BlackDog said:As a newbie I'm forced to ask if that also holds going over the Pyrenees from SJPdP?
JohnnieWalker said:To each his own. Falcon swears by using two walking sticks, I usually don't use any. Despite the "proven benefits" it seems to me that the majority of pilgrims on the routes don't feel the need to use two poles.
Best regards
John
methodist.pilgrim.98 said:In 2004 a Leki pushed firmly, quickly and desperately into the ground saved me falling down a steep hillside.
If you have two poles and bend slightly forward while going up hills, moving the sticks just a short distance at a time, your upper body is taking up to one third of the weight of your body. If, like me, you have health issues, this is a considerable aid to getting up the hills without the continuous need to keep stopping.
I have walked across the Pyernees twice and wouldn't dream of not taking sticks with me.
Beside all of that practical nonsense a couple of walking poles makes me look dead cool in the photos. :lol:
methodist.pilgrim.98 said:I have walked across the Pyernees twice and wouldn't dream of not taking sticks with me.
And I don't doubt about walking with two sticks.JohnnieWalker said:I would never contemplate using two sticks.
(0-100) :lol: OK 58, now tell me your age please LydiaLydia Gillen said:I think it would help a great deal if pilgrims giving advice about poles would indicate what age bracket they themselves are in.
I am an advocate of using poles, and have written on this elsewhere previously, including my observation that the benefits are about the physics of pole use. Pushing down on the poles reduces the load on the lower limb joints, pushing back makes one go faster and pushing forwards brakes one's progress. In any one step, at least two of these effects are achieved.cjm said:Hi - can I have thoughts on if walking/hiking poles would help with the walk? I was thinking of taking a pair of light weight adjustable poles. CJM
Lydia Gillen said:David,
Did your mother not teach you that it is impolite to ask a lady her age?.
grayland said:It is obvious from these posts that walking poles are simply a personal choice. They work well for those who like them and are just a nuisance for many others.
There are those who are really enthusiastic about them and cannot seem to believe that they are not for everyone. :wink: This seems to be doubled when it comes to "Pacer" poles.
I have not used poles in the past but have tried. I never seem to be able to get a proper rhythm and end up just having to carry them except for a very few downhill sections. I did buy a very expensive pair of folding carbon fiber poles. They weigh about 5 oz so will not be much added weight if I don't/can't use them. They fold quite small and can easily fit inside pack.
I will give them one more chance...at least they will be light if they stay in my pack this time.
grayland said:It is obvious from these posts that walking poles are simply a personal choice. They work well for those who like them and are just a nuisance for many others.
There are those who are really enthusiastic about them and cannot seem to believe that they are not for everyone. :wink: This seems to be doubled when it comes to "Pacer" poles.
I have not used poles in the past but have tried. I never seem to be able to get a proper rhythm and end up just having to carry them except for a very few downhill sections. I did buy a very expensive pair of folding carbon fiber poles. They weigh about 5 oz so will not be much added weight if I don't/can't use them. They fold quite small and can easily fit inside pack.
I will give them one more chance...at least they will be light if they stay in my pack this time.
The Route Napoleon is on tarmac and a country path. There is no rock climbing or mountaineering. I walked over it in one go without a stick. In saying that I have picked up a stick occasionally and used it for downhill walking but I would never contemplate using two sticks.
Labtails said:How strongly do the Pacerpole user love them as opposed to other brands? Is the titled handle as much of a plus as it looks? And if you had two poles could you possibly share one with a walking partner at times? I'm thinking I might need to give my knees a break from time to time.
Labtails said:Lots of very good points to consider, better posture, bending , breaking, left/right hand grips,and I would never leave them in a bin in an alley. I'm pretty athletic so hopefully can learn to use the poles correctly & get a good rythme going. I think I will get a pair to try out. I have plenty of time to practice & then can decide if I take then to Spain with me or not.
Each of those clicks on the road is a little weight off one's knees if the pole is being used correctly. Your view that they might look ridiculous might be preventing you from taking advantage of this major benefit of using technical poles.aude said:Click, click, click, click....I walked the camino del norte last year. Challenging for a 64 year old little lady with no walking experience! I did not use poles, just an old wooden staff. Yes, there are parts where the staff was useful, but I shall never believe that the walking poles are necessary and, frankly, they look ridiculous on the roads - of which there are quite a few to tramp. f you are going to hike a mountain, maybe they will be helpful, but not on your everyday camino walk. For my age and physical condition,I managed very well indeed without poles and was hopping along happily at 5-6 km per hour after the first week of pain! And with those poles on the road, you can be heard coming for miles, ha ha!!!
Maybe, but have you ever noticed the headwear? Don't get me started on ridiculous...they look ridiculous
aude said:Click, click, click, click....I walked the camino del norte last year. Challenging for a 64 year old little lady with no walking experience! I did not use poles, just an old wooden staff. Yes, there are parts where the staff was useful, but I shall never believe that the walking poles are necessary and, frankly, they look ridiculous on the roads - of which there are quite a few to tramp. f you are going to hike a mountain, maybe they will be helpful, but not on your everyday camino walk. For my age and physical condition,I managed very well indeed without poles and was hopping along happily at 5-6 km per hour after the first week of pain! And with those poles on the road, you can be heard coming for miles, ha ha!!!
With you here Aude. We are one (curved top) wooden staff fans too. Just do not want a pair of walking poles and will not be wasting our money on them. We manage very happily with our long sticks and we too are in our 60s. Blessed with good joints and not carrying overweight packs, slow walkers so less strain on hips and knees.aude said:Click, click, click, click....I walked the camino del norte last year. Challenging for a 64 year old little lady with no walking experience! I did not use poles, just an old wooden staff. Yes, there are parts where the staff was useful, but I shall never believe that the walking poles are necessary ........
The physics of pole use is pretty simple. You can exert a certain force on the wrist strap (or through gripping the handle if you are not using the pole properly) which can be resolved into two components - one in line with your body and taking some weight off your lower joints, and the other pushing you along (or braking your descent). As you alter the angle of the pole, so too do you change the ratio of lift to thrust. The longer the pole, the greater the pole is away from the vertical, the less lift and more thrust. The benefits don't change whether you are walking on the flat, up- or downhill.sharmuk said:snip
Poles are proving to be very useful on the flat (though some received web wisdom says they shouldn't) and downhill but I haven't really got the hang of uphill with them yet.
snip
Those who are shorter and\or less stout may perhaps be fortunate in not having sufficient stress on the knees to see any benefit.
I still have my stave with all its medallions, but I don't confuse it with serious equipment. It pretty much stays in the umbrella stand.How Trekking-Poles Help Hikers Maintain Muscle Function While Reducing Soreness
Science Daily (June 2, 2010) — A study by academics at Northumbria University has shown for the first time that trekking-poles help hikers maintain muscle function while significantly reducing soreness in the days following a hike.
In the study, 37 physically active men and women were split into two groups of equal fitness and asked to hike up and down Snowdon, the highest mountain in England and Wales.
One group was issued with and trained in the use of trekking poles while the other group made the climb unaided. Each group ate the same evening meal on the night before; they ate the same breakfast, carried similar weight in day packs and took the same scheduled rests during both the ascent and descent.
The participants' heart rates and their personal perceived exertion ratings were recorded during the hike. Then, at the end of the hike, and at 24-, 48- and 72-hour intervals afterwards, muscle damage and function were assessed through a variety of tests.
The results showed that there was significantly less muscle soreness in the group using trekking poles. This group demonstrated a reduced loss of strength and a faster recovery immediately after the trek compared to the control group. Self-rated soreness peaked at 24-hours in both groups but was significantly lower in the trekking-pole group, both at this point and at the 48-hour point. In addition, levels of the enzyme creatine kinase (which indicates muscle damage) were much higher at the 24-hour point in the non-pole group, while the trekking-pole group's levels were close to the pre-trekking levels. This shows that the muscle damage they were experiencing was negligible.
Pole manufacturers have suggested that trekking poles can reduce forces on lower-limb joints by as much as 25 %. However, the existing research has been restricted to the laboratory or to non-mountainous outdoor settings, such as running tracks, and has only focused on biomechanical investigations into stress on the ankle, knee and hip. This is the first documented study into the effectiveness of trekking poles in the environments for which they were designed.
"The results present strong evidence that trekking poles reduce, almost to the point of complete disappearance, the extent of muscle damage during a day's mountain trek," says Dr Glyn Howatson, who conducted the study.
"Preventing muscle damage and soreness is likely to improve motivation and so keep people enjoying the benefits of exercise for longer. Perhaps even more advantageously, the combined benefits of using trekking poles in reducing load to the lower limbs, increasing stability and reducing muscle damage could also help avoid injury on subsequent days trekking. It is often the reduced reaction time and position sense, associated with damaged muscles that cause the falls and trips that can lead to further injury in mountainous or uneven terrain.
"These findings have particularly strong application for exercisers wishing to engage in consecutive days' activity in mountainous terrain."
I wouldn't normally shorten or lengthen my poles for the sort of slopes one might meet on roads and foot paths in urban areas, but for steeper gradients, doing so is worthwhile, and the Pacerpoles site suggests the same thing.Abbeydore said:Well going up-hill can be amazing with pacerpoles, you don't need to shorten them, took me ages to realize this; one tends to push(-up) rather take the weight.
http://www.pacerpole.com/pacerpole-user ... ic-ascents
Heather in the video is very fit & i would suggest us mortals use a much smaller stride, you'll be amazed how easy & quick this is once you crack the rhythm..........as she says the pole doesn't go past the mid-point of the opposite boot.
My advice is to put as much pressure on as you find comfortable. IF you haven't used poles, or haven't used them for a while, you can expect some exercise effects as you tone the muscle mass in your arms and shoulders. As your muscle tone improves, you will find it easier and easier to keep going longer and with higher pressures.Labtails said:Here's a question I didn't get from watching a ad video. When walking with two poles how much pressure should one apply downward on the poles with each contact to the ground? This may sound an odd question, but on my first outting I found my shoulders getting tired/sore. I think I was trying to press doward too much. But if one doesn't press downward at all them it is not taking pressure off one's knees.
Am I totally off base here? Need advice on polling technique. Thanks.
dougfitz said:I wouldn't normally shorten or lengthen my poles for the sort of slopes one might meet on roads and foot paths in urban areas, but for steeper gradients, doing so is worthwhile, and the Pacerpoles site suggests the same thing.Abbeydore said:Well going up-hill can be amazing with pacerpoles, you don't need to shorten them, took me ages to realize this; one tends to push(-up) rather take the weight.
http://www.pacerpole.com/pacerpole-user ... ic-ascents
Heather in the video is very fit & i would suggest us mortals use a much smaller stride, you'll be amazed how easy & quick this is once you crack the rhythm..........as she says the pole doesn't go past the mid-point of the opposite boot.
Its not clear to me what you mean by 'take the weight'. The only time I recall that term being used in a sporting context is the tug-of-war, and that is about pulling against a resistance, which doesn't make sense in the context of a walking pole. I know that when I am using poles, I am pushing down using the heel of my hand and wrist against the strap. This action can be maintained all day, unlike any action that requires a handle to be continually gripped.
In training, I keep my poles very slightly longer, and normally the point makes contact level with the opposite heel unless I a negotiating tricky ground, when the point is placed where it can best aid my stability.
The point on stepping short going uphill is just as good advice when going downhill. A shorter step in both circumstances keeps the angles through which the hip, knee and ankle joints have to travel smaller, and reduces the load on these joints.
Regards,
David,Abbeydore said:Until you've tried Pacerpoles you'll never really know how good they are, you could say they are over the top for the Camino, I'll let you know in about 4 weeks when we hopefully have got to Santiago,
A different salesman but ... he was probably telling the truth. Even though I had been bushwalking for many years, a salesman talked me into buying poles for the Camino. I thanked him on my return.sweetlee213 said:The salesman told me a woman who had done the Camino last year had come back to thank him for talking her into the purchase. He may have been just trying to make a sale
Thanks for this. I have been struggling with my decision to use poles. I haven't used any before in all my walking to prepare for this trip, but my friend swears by them so I decided to give it a try. I struggled and fought with them the whole 3 hours I was out and didn't enjoy the day at all. I am fairly confident that I will not need the poles for the majority of the camino, but I was most worried about the first few days out of SJPP. I appreciate the positive comments you have left regarding not needing the poles. It definitely seems to be the less chosen method.The Route Napoleon is on tarmac and a country path. There is no rock climbing or mountaineering. I walked over it in one go without a stick. In saying that I have picked up a stick occasionally and used it for downhill walking but I would never contemplate using two sticks.
While probably not half, the number of pilgrims with trekking poles is large. Poles significantly reduce stress on your ankles, knees, and hips. That can be important for surviving weeks three and four after arduous weeks one and two! You do need to learn to use them correctly as with any equipment. I don't recall taking hours to learn them, but you may be giving up too soon. Young folks can bounce from rock to rock, but that can be dangerous as one ages.It definitely seems to be the less chosen method.
If the poles spoil your walking experience then don't feel that you have to take them. I posted this previouslyThanks for this. I have been struggling with my decision to use poles. I haven't used any before in all my walking to prepare for this trip, but my friend swears by them so I decided to give it a try. I struggled and fought with them the whole 3 hours I was out and didn't enjoy the day at all. I am fairly confident that I will not need the poles for the majority of the camino, but I was most worried about the first few days out of SJPP. I appreciate the positive comments you have left regarding not needing the poles. It definitely seems to be the less chosen method.
Two years later we are still using the same curved topped sticks (one each) and will be happily using them again this year. One hand always free, good and strong for bearing weight, enough downhill support to keep us happy etc. Each to his/her own, but personally we have not changed our opinion and still would not want a pair of the 'hiking poles' ..............We are one (curved top) wooden staff fans too. Just do not want a pair of walking poles and will not be wasting our money on them. We manage very happily with our long sticks and we too are in our 60s. Blessed with good joints and not carrying overweight packs, slow walkers so less strain on hips and knees.
Buen Camino
I do not think you can expect THAT! I have used trekking poles for a couple of decades, so I am a big fan, but they reduce shock rather than actually carry much weight. When you are stressing and releasing your knees, hips, and ankles with your weight a couple of million times in a month, reducing that stress is invaluable. The weight on your wrist straps momentarily reduces the weight on your legs, so maybe that can be considered a reduction on your feet and legs, but I would need to see the science to set it at 30%.He argued that using these transfers 30 per cent of your weight from your feet and legs to your upper torso
Trecking poles are great on mountain trails, but I find them somehow inconvenient at fast pace on flat paths. Nordic walking poles seem to work better. Different grip, different swing though.
Can you carry them on the plane?I'm 59 and will be 60 in August! :shock:
Is that TRUE!? YIKES!
Anyway, first Camino I used a stick I got in SJPP.
Worked great.
Second Camino I used pacer poles.
Worked great but I worried about them being stolen or lost.
Third Camino - I haven't decided.
I'm leaning toward just buying a stick in SJPP because I'll be in Europe for 5 months, flying around from Spain to Amsterdam to Wales and back to Spain and don't want to have to mess with worrying about them. Joe reminds me they will collapse small enough to fit in my pack. We'll see... haven't decided.
I'd say if your budget is tight, just pick up a stick in SJPP for under 6 euros.
It will work fine.
If you can afford the cost, buy poles.
Anne, I don't think you'll be able to fly with them in the cabin from all the posts I've read. You could get lucky and get a TSA person who will let you on, but there is a good chance you won't be able to. This is why I don't want to bring mine as it is too much trouble getting them in a container/tube to put them with the belly luggageand then deal with the same thing on the return home, not to mention having them lost.I do hope so! The long ones had to be spesial luggage. These I hope will be ok to bring in my backpack.
Why? I adjust my grip and swing on the flat and power along.
You are a brave man Doug. I never check my baggage, especially not before my Camino.There has been plenty of discussion about carrying poles on aircraft. They need to be checked, not carried on as cabin baggage. I check my pack in any case, and on my last trip, just strapped the poles to the side of my pack. When I carried a slightly larger pack I was able to put them inside the pack. So far, I have not had a problem.
Glad you checked it out Anne. You must be so excited, just over two weeks to go. Buen Camino.I contacted Norwegian today. I have to check in the poles, although they are small and will go into my backpack, if allouded. However ... they are not. So..it will be spesial luggage and check in, but only the poles. My backpack will go with me as handluggage.
Thanks to all of you sharing experience... I get more and more exited about this journey. So far I have been calm and tried to prepare. Now I have started a countdown and keep talking about Camino France ..... althoug I have a lot to do untill leaving : )
I find them as useful reducing the load on my lower joints when they are used on the flat as they are on slopes. I suppose that I take the view that if I am going to carry them, they might as well be useful.Used walking poles in 2012 on the Camino (last 5 stages) and I'm using them again at the moment (Sarria to Melide). They are invaluable both uphill and more especially downhill. They reduce pressure on legs and feet. On the flat I often just carry them - they are light enough not to be an issue.
I know that there have been way too many posts to this thread , but please allow a comment from a cross-country skier. When I first tried walking with 2 poles, it didn't take long to discover that the poling action was essentially the same as in Nordic skiing: plant the pole beside the leading foot, bear down on the pole and continue to bear down through your stride. The downward force is translated into forward push as your body moves forward while the pole stays planted in the same spot. The effect is to transfer weight from your legs, hips and back onto your arms and shoulders, while lengthening your stride as the poling propels you forward. It is particularly helpful when walking upslope. But the greatest benefit for me (one gimpy knee) is when I walk downslope. Here the action is completely different from horizontal or upslope terrain. In descents, you plant the pole a couple of feet ahead of the lead foot and lean into the pole. This transfers weight from your lower joints onto your shoulders - a welcome relief to the searing pain in my left knee.Hi - can I have thoughts on if walking/hiking poles would help with the walk? I was thinking of taking a pair of light weight adjustable poles. CJM