Updating forum Invierno guide -- question about distances

[peregrina2000]

Hi, invierno pilgrims,
I am almost done with the text changes for the "new edition" of the guide (which I will then send around for veterans to critique), but my big headache now is the distances. Last year, I changed them all to reflect GPS and other calculations. This year three pilgrims told me that they found the distances cited to be much MORE than the actual distances. My own GPS was not working for most of the Invierno this summer, so I have no first hand information.

My question -- Do those of you who have walked the Invierno think that the Gronze distances are reasonably accurate? http://www.gronze.com/camino-de-santiago/caminos/guia-del-camino-invierno
My inclination right now is to just use their distances and point out that the kms are always slightly approximate. But I would really appreciate some input on this because if I change them once, I do NOT want to change them again! It is a real pain in the neck. Thanks, Laurie

 

[Mark Francis Auchincloss]

Stage 1: Ponferrada - Las Médulas 27km (G 27.2 )

Stage 2: Las Médulas - O Barco de Valdeorras 26.7km (26.4 )

Stage 3: O Barco de Valdeorras - A Rúa de Valdeorras 13.9 (14.2)

Stage 4: A Rúa de Valdeorras - Quiroga 27.4km (26.3)

Stage 5: Quiroga - Monforte de Lemos 38.3km - Roman Bridge (35.4)

Stage 6: Monforte de Lemos - Chantada 31km (29.7)

Stage 7: Chantada - Rodeiro 25.5km (25.8)

Stage 8: Rodeiro - A Laxe 28.8km (27.2)

Stage 9: A Laxe - Outeiro 34km Puente Ulla (34.1)

Satge 10: Outeiro - Santiago de Compostela 17km (16.7)

So fairly accurate subject to a few stages !

NB Taken from 2nd Edition of Guide for the Winter Way from A Rua Association (G- Gronze)

 

[KinkyOne]

Hi, invierno pilgrims,
I am almost done with the text changes for the "new edition" of the guide (which I will then send around for veterans to critique), but my big headache now is the distances. Last year, I changed them all to reflect GPS and other calculations. This year three pilgrims told me that they found the distances cited to be much MORE than the actual distances. My own GPS was not working for most of the Invierno this summer, so I have no first hand information.

My question -- Do those of you who have walked the Invierno think that the Gronze distances are reasonably accurate? http://www.gronze.com/camino-de-santiago/caminos/guia-del-camino-invierno
My inclination right now is to just use their distances and point out that the kms are always slightly approximate. But I would really appreciate some input on this because if I change them once, I do NOT want to change them again! It is a real pain in the neck. Thanks, Laurie

Hola, Laurie!

Of course Gronze distances are reasonably accurate. Discrepancies between Gronze (stages) and my GPS are ranging from 5,9-34% up. Let me explain because I haven't walked entire route on official Camino so at least on three stages I think my GPS distances should be excluded (first distance is Gronze, second mine, third the difference):
01.) Ponferrada - Las Medulas: 27,2 / 31,9 /4,7kms = 17%
02.) - O Barco: 26,4 / 29,7 / 3,3kms = 12,5%
03.) - A Rua: 14,2 / 15,9 / 1,7kms = 12%
04.) - Quiroga: 26,4 / 30,3 / 3,9kms = 11% (from Soldon I've walked on the old tarmac road between the river and N-120 so that might be the reason for lower percentage of discrepancy - therefore I think this should be excluded)
05.) - Monforte de Lemos: 35,4 / 42 / 6,6kms = 18,6%
06.) - Chantada: 29,7 / 39,8 / 10,1kms = 34% (definitely to be excluded, because from Castrotane to famous crossroads near Vilarino & from Belesar to A Devesa I have walked on tarmac road, that's why so high percentage of discrepancy)
07.) - Rodeiro: 25,8 / 30,8 / 5kms = 19,4%
08.) - A Laxe: 27,2 / 28,8 / 1,6kms = 5,9% (again I'm puzzled here because of so low percentage but I guess the PO-533 I took from Rodeiro to Lalin is much shorter than the official Camino, definitely to be excluded but would love to track it someday again on the official route).

As previously said I would really like to compare different GPS tracking apps on the same stretches, maybe even on the same day, with same rest stops etc. That would be really proper approach to define distances. But there again does it matter so much for most of the hikers on less walked Caminos? I'm sure those repeat offenders are there for the walking and not for collecting distances.

Anyway, if you look at stages 01.-03., 05. & 07. the biggest difference calculated timewise is approx. 1 hour. Not really too much for repeat offenders I guess

Laurie, I know that my distances caused this mess so you can freely exclude them from the guide, no hard feelings whatsoever!!!

 

[peregrina2000]

Hola, Laurie!

Of course Gronze distances are reasonably accurate. Discrepancies between Gronze (stages) and my GPS are ranging from 5,9-34% up. Let me explain because I haven't walked entire route on official Camino so at least on three stages I think my GPS distances should be excluded (first distance is Gronze, second mine, third the difference):
01.) Ponferrada - Las Medulas: 27,2 / 31,9 /4,7kms = 17%
02.) - O Barco: 26,4 / 29,7 / 3,3kms = 12,5%
03.) - A Rua: 14,2 / 15,9 / 1,7kms = 12%
04.) - Quiroga: 26,4 / 30,3 / 3,9kms = 11% (from Soldon I've walked on the old tarmac road between the river and N-120 so that might be the reason for lower percentage of discrepancy - therefore I think this should be excluded)
05.) - Monforte de Lemos: 35,4 / 42 / 6,6kms = 18,6%
06.) - Chantada: 29,7 / 39,8 / 10,1kms = 34% (definitely to be excluded, because from Castrotane to famous crossroads near Vilarino & from Belesar to A Devesa I have walked on tarmac road, that's why so high percentage of discrepancy)
07.) - Rodeiro: 25,8 / 30,8 / 5kms = 19,4%
08.) - A Laxe: 27,2 / 28,8 / 1,6kms = 5,9% (again I'm puzzled here because of so low percentage but I guess the PO-533 I took from Rodeiro to Lalin is much shorter than the official Camino, definitely to be excluded but would love to track it someday again on the official route).

As previously said I would really like to compare different GPS tracking apps on the same stretches, maybe even on the same day, with same rest stops etc. That would be really proper approach to define distances. But there again does it matter so much for most of the hikers on less walked Caminos? I'm sure those repeat offenders are there for the walking and not for collecting distances.

Anyway, if you look at stages 01.-03., 05. & 07. the biggest difference calculated timewise is approx. 1 hour. Not really too much for repeat offenders I guess

Laurie, I know that my distances caused this mess so you can freely exclude them from the guide, no hard feelings whatsoever!!!

This is great, Kinky, thank you so much! This level of detail will help me out enormously, so I will soon get working on the distances. Laurie

 

[KinkyOne]

This is great, Kinky, thank you so much! This level of detail will help me out enormously, so I will soon get working on the distances. Laurie

I think I've already did this last year but if you need even more detailed distances (on official route!!!) I can provide them. OTOH very much in doubt they will be helpfull because of the discrepancy

 

[aliwalks]

Hi, invierno pilgrims,
I am almost done with the text changes for the "new edition" of the guide (which I will then send around for veterans to critique), but my big headache now is the distances. Last year, I changed them all to reflect GPS and other calculations. This year three pilgrims told me that they found the distances cited to be much MORE than the actual distances. My own GPS was not working for most of the Invierno this summer, so I have no first hand information.

My question -- Do those of you who have walked the Invierno think that the Gronze distances are reasonably accurate? http://www.gronze.com/camino-de-santiago/caminos/guia-del-camino-invierno
My inclination right now is to just use their distances and point out that the kms are always slightly approximate. But I would really appreciate some input on this because if I change them once, I do NOT want to change them again! It is a real pain in the neck. Thanks, Laurie

I am not going to put you on the spot LOL but I am this of walking this route, no pressure , Aliwalks!

 

[peregrina2000]

I am not going to put you on the spot LOL but I am this of walking this route, no pressure , Aliwalks!

Never fear, aliwalks, the text is almost ready to send out to others for their review, I am confident the new version will be ready by the end of the year -- when are you thinking about walking? (I ask because if you or anyone else is heading out now, I do have a heavily updated version that is still in draft form but could be used). Buen camino, Laurie

 

[peregrina2000]

Hola, Laurie!

Of course Gronze distances are reasonably accurate. Discrepancies between Gronze (stages) and my GPS are ranging from 5,9-34% up. Let me explain because I haven't walked entire route on official Camino so at least on three stages I think my GPS distances should be excluded (first distance is Gronze, second mine, third the difference):
01.) Ponferrada - Las Medulas: 27,2 / 31,9 /4,7kms = 17%
02.) - O Barco: 26,4 / 29,7 / 3,3kms = 12,5%
03.) - A Rua: 14,2 / 15,9 / 1,7kms = 12%
04.) - Quiroga: 26,4 / 30,3 / 3,9kms = 11% (from Soldon I've walked on the old tarmac road between the river and N-120 so that might be the reason for lower percentage of discrepancy - therefore I think this should be excluded)
05.) - Monforte de Lemos: 35,4 / 42 / 6,6kms = 18,6%
06.) - Chantada: 29,7 / 39,8 / 10,1kms = 34% (definitely to be excluded, because from Castrotane to famous crossroads near Vilarino & from Belesar to A Devesa I have walked on tarmac road, that's why so high percentage of discrepancy)
07.) - Rodeiro: 25,8 / 30,8 / 5kms = 19,4%
08.) - A Laxe: 27,2 / 28,8 / 1,6kms = 5,9% (again I'm puzzled here because of so low percentage but I guess the PO-533 I took from Rodeiro to Lalin is much shorter than the official Camino, definitely to be excluded but would love to track it someday again on the official route).

As previously said I would really like to compare different GPS tracking apps on the same stretches, maybe even on the same day, with same rest stops etc. That would be really proper approach to define distances. But there again does it matter so much for most of the hikers on less walked Caminos? I'm sure those repeat offenders are there for the walking and not for collecting distances.

Anyway, if you look at stages 01.-03., 05. & 07. the biggest difference calculated timewise is approx. 1 hour. Not really too much for repeat offenders I guess

Laurie, I know that my distances caused this mess so you can freely exclude them from the guide, no hard feelings whatsoever!!!

Hi, K1, My plan as of right now is to put all the gronze distances in the guide, but to have some "alerts" to pilgrims for those few stages where there is a big discrepancy. I'm just starting to work with your notes, but for instance on the first stage, Ponferrada to As Médulas, I'm finding that 27 is about the lowest recorded distance of any of the many GPS tracks I´ve found. Some of the difference can be explained by a detour to the castle, but probably not all. In any event, I think it's a good heads up for those who might not be comfortable with 30-32 kms, especially with the two big ascents in there.

 

[KinkyOne]

Hi, K1, My plan as of right now is to put all the gronze distances in the guide, but to have some "alerts" to pilgrims for those few stages where there is a big discrepancy. I'm just starting to work with your notes, but for instance on the first stage, Ponferrada to As Médulas, I'm finding that 27 is about the lowest recorded distance of any of the many GPS tracks I´ve found. Some of the difference can be explained by a detour to the castle, but probably not all. In any event, I think it's a good heads up for those who might not be comfortable with 30-32 kms, especially with the two big ascents in there.

First numbers are Gronze (27,2), second are mine (31,9), but Peter Robins has 27,37. I've checked my tracking and it's 32,6. I really don't know how come my numbers are so much higher than others? I think it's better to exclude them for now. I'll have to do a cross check with different apps on my phone and then I'll know something more.
I remember on Camino de Madrid where certain distance in the guidebook was 5+kms longer than the one I have actually walked. It brought a wide grin on my face and I pushed on to Grajal de Campos where I've had a very rare opportunity of sleeping in castelo Therefore I say I'd rather see this kind of surprise than walking one hour more than predicted

 

[peregrina2000]

First numbers are Gronze (27,2), second are mine (31,9), but Peter Robins has 27,37. I've checked my tracking and it's 32,6. I really don't know how come my numbers are so much higher than others? I think it's better to exclude them for now. I'll have to do a cross check with different apps on my phone and then I'll know something more.
I remember on Camino de Madrid where certain distance in the guidebook was 5+kms longer than the one I have actually walked. It brought a wide grin on my face and I pushed on to Grajal de Campos where I've had a very rare opportunity of sleeping in castelo Therefore I say I'd rather see this kind of surprise than walking one hour more than predicted

So, give me your reaction to saying something like this:

A note about distances: If you have walked other Caminos, you may be familiar with the Gronze website, which is a treasure trove of good information. They have an online guide to the Invierno, in Spanish, but a lot of its information is self-explanatory. After a multi-year headache trying to find the correct distances to use between towns in this guide, this year’s contributors agreed with me that we should simply incorporate Gronze’s estimates. Your GPS or other websites may vary, but we concluded that Gronze was the most consistently reliable source, and I wanted to give acknowledgement and thanks. There are, however, three stages for which I wanted to give a heads up.


1. Ponferrada to As Médulas. Gronze reports 27.2; the range of GPS tracks on the web and from forum members goes from 27-31. If you are uncomfortable with 30+ days, this is one you may want to break up into two (easy to do with a stop in Borrenes). That’s because the day includes two ascents – one of about 300 m elevation gain, and the second of 250 – and the opportunity to take a short detour to visit the Cornatel Castle, which is, IMO, worth a visit.


2. Quiroga to Monforte de Lemos. Gronze reports 35.4; GPS tracks run as high as 38, even 40. Again, there is an easy way to stop after the first 24 or so, in Pobra de Brollón with its very pilgrim friendly pensión, As Viñas.


3. Chantada to Rodeiro. Gronze reports 25.8; GPS tracks run as high as 30. Much of the discrepancy comes from whether or not the pilgrim decided to detour off to visit the chapel at Alto do Faro. There is no obvious intermediate stop with lodging possibilities. Many of the small towns in the vicinity have casas rurales, though, so careful planning might come up with a good mid-point stopping point (with an owner willing to go pick you up). Another option would be to have a taxi pick-up from Chantada at a point agreed upon ahead of time; the most obvious one would be up on the Alto do Faro. Spend the night in Chantada and return the next day by taxi to continue to Rodeiro.

Getting close to having something for volunteer editors to look at! Buen camino, Laurie

 

[KinkyOne]

So, give me your reaction to saying something like this:

A note about distances: If you have walked other Caminos, you may be familiar with the Gronze website, which is a treasure trove of good information. They have an online guide to the Invierno, in Spanish, but a lot of its information is self-explanatory. After a multi-year headache trying to find the correct distances to use between towns in this guide, this year’s contributors agreed with me that we should simply incorporate Gronze’s estimates. Your GPS or other websites may vary, but we concluded that Gronze was the most consistently reliable source, and I wanted to give acknowledgement and thanks. There are, however, three stages for which I wanted to give a heads up.


1. Ponferrada to As Médulas. Gronze reports 27.2; the range of GPS tracks on the web and from forum members goes from 27-31. If you are uncomfortable with 30+ days, this is one you may want to break up into two (easy to do with a stop in Borrenes). That’s because the day includes two ascents – one of about 300 m elevation gain, and the second of 250 – and the opportunity to take a short detour to visit the Cornatel Castle, which is, IMO, worth a visit.


2. Quiroga to Monforte de Lemos. Gronze reports 35.4; GPS tracks run as high as 38, even 40. Again, there is an easy way to stop after the first 24 or so, in Pobra de Brollón with its very pilgrim friendly pensión, As Viñas.


3. Chantada to Rodeiro. Gronze reports 25.8; GPS tracks run as high as 30. Much of the discrepancy comes from whether or not the pilgrim decided to detour off to visit the chapel at Alto do Faro. There is no obvious intermediate stop with lodging possibilities. Many of the small towns in the vicinity have casas rurales, though, so careful planning might come up with a good mid-point stopping point (with an owner willing to go pick you up). Another option would be to have a taxi pick-up from Chantada at a point agreed upon ahead of time; the most obvious one would be up on the Alto do Faro. Spend the night in Chantada and return the next day by taxi to continue to Rodeiro.

Getting close to having something for volunteer editors to look at! Buen camino, Laurie

Mostly agree, Laurie, although:
1.) Cornatel Castle is not really a detour, it's exactly on official Camino. And you can also break this stage with staying at Priaranza del Bierzo (see my post about that).
2.) A Pobra do Brollon is excellent stop I think! Also there's this the public swimming area on the river that reminded me of Rionegro del Puente on Sanabres.
3.) I'm almost sure Alto do Faro is closer to Rodeiro on the road (for a taxi/pension owner pick-up) but I might be mistaken.

You intrigued me so much with this distances issue that I'm more and more sure to walk it again soon

 

[peregrina2000]

Mostly agree, Laurie, although:
1.) Cornatel Castle is not really a detour, it's exactly on official Camino. And you can also break this stage with staying at Priaranza del Bierzo (see my post about that).
2.) A Pobra do Brollon is excellent stop I think! Also there's this the public swimming area on the river that reminded me of Rionegro del Puente on Sanabres.
3.) I'm almost sure Alto do Faro is closer to Rodeiro on the road (for a taxi/pension owner pick-up) but I might be mistaken.

You intrigued me so much with this distances issue that I'm more and more sure to walk it again soon

Thanks, Kinky,
1. What I meant was that to the extent you want to spend time at Cornatel Castle, that makes the day longer. I also think that based on what I've seen from other gps tracks, some of the increases in distance come from walking around the castle, in and out, up and down. I will clarify.

2. I agree with that. Loved the swimming hole concept. We had a couple of local residents tell us how wonderful their mayor was for having spent the small sum of money it took to make a little "dam" to contain the river and keep it at a certain height. They also told me that it has totally changed the ambiente of the town, now people have a reason to come to town, they gather in the park and swim, it has just made life more communal and liveable.

3. Yes, I agree. I was just basing my suggestion on the fact that I think Rodeiro is less interesting than Chantada, but I will modify this to include both, since I've found there are taxis in both towns. I'll even put in the phone numbers.

Thanks, K1, this is exactly the benefit of having additional eyes looking at the revisions! Laurie

 

[KinkyOne]

Thanks, Kinky,
1. What I meant was that to the extent you want to spend time at Cornatel Castle, that makes the day longer. I also think that based on what I've seen from other gps tracks, some of the increases in distance come from walking around the castle, in and out, up and down. I will clarify.

2. I agree with that. Loved the swimming hole concept. We had a couple of local residents tell us how wonderful their mayor was for having spent the small sum of money it took to make a little "dam" to contain the river and keep it at a certain height. They also told me that it has totally changed the ambiente of the town, now people have a reason to come to town, they gather in the park and swim, it has just made life more communal and liveable.

3. Yes, I agree. I was just basing my suggestion on the fact that I think Rodeiro is less interesting than Chantada, but I will modify this to include both, since I've found there are taxis in both towns. I'll even put in the phone numbers.

Thanks, K1, this is exactly the benefit of having additional eyes looking at the revisions! Laurie

 

[peregrina2000]

BTW, did you spend any time at the riverbank in Barco de Valdeorras? It was a community magnet for people of all ages. There were kids tubing over a little bit of white water, tons of people swimming, and then all the groups on the shore talking, at cafés, in the playgrounds, it was absolutely wonderful.

 

[KinkyOne]

BTW, did you spend any time at the riverbank in Barco de Valdeorras? It was a community magnet for people of all ages. There were kids tubing over a little bit of white water, tons of people swimming, and then all the groups on the shore talking, at cafés, in the playgrounds, it was absolutely wonderful.

I remember that promenade in O Barco but after short stop and some shoping I went to Xagoaza albergue.