Unwelcome traces from pilgrim rituals

[Rainerbernd]

Boa noite, the stupid "tradition" never ends. Once again, a pilgrim burned clothes in Fisterra. The result was a bush fire. Please, I kindly ask you, do not burn anything in Fisterra. Link

https://www.lavozdegalicia.es/notic...mar-ropa-final-camino/0003_201809G17P7993.htm

 

[Bradypus]

An illustrated article from La Voz de Galicia today comments on the increasing problem of the Caminos being defaced by people marking their passing by burning clothing, stacking stones, graffiti, leaving mementos and other "traditions".

https://www.lavozdegalicia.es/notic...tuales-peregrinos/00031537254172159798384.htm

 

[Paladina]

Perhaps the pilgrim’s credencial should contain a reminder to the bearer to leave no trace.

 

[Helen1]

Its an interesting article, thank you for sharing. The love padlock thing really irritates me you see these in all kinds of places now. My guess is that trying to educate pilgrims is doomed to failure. I assume the rituals will either be 'policed' out of existence (which doesn't feel very Spanish) or formalized - you can burn your clothes but only between 3 and 4pm, for a fee, and in some form of incinerator that filters the air. Or perhaps a credencial costs 10 Euro with 8 Euro going back into environmental projects to clean up the camino. Does all the junk that gets dumped at Cruz de Ferro end up in a landfill site?

 

[JabbaPapa]

There's a linked article about Fisterra particularly, including firemen dealing with the consequences of people burning clothes ...

https://www.lavozdegalicia.es/notic...a-manda-cabo-fisterra/0003_201809C18C3994.htm

I've never understood why so many people insist on behaving so selfishly on the Camino.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Does all the junk that gets dumped at Cruz de Ferro end up in a landfill site?

I think they leave the actual stones, the height of it has grown in the past 25 years or so -- but if they didn't clean it up, it would just be a huge rubbish heap.

 

[t2andreo]

Everything is removed from the base of the pole, periodically, over the winter months... I do not know how much they reduce the pile, completely, or just reduce the height. Also, I do not know what they do with the material they remove. But, I do recall reading that the pile is reduced when it gets 'to a certain height.'

Hope this helps.

 

[Tuaruin]

Perhaps the pilgrim’s credencial should contain a reminder to the bearer to leave no trace.

I agree.

In isolation, a small stack of stones or a memento left may seem insignificant in the landscape but, when thousands of pilgrims each do the same, the impact on that landscape rapidly becomes significant.

Take memories, photos and experiences; tread lightly and leave the landscape as it was found, for the next pilgrim to enjoy.

 

[Tony Hutt]

The worst thing I saw, virtually along the entire route, was tissue paper. Leave nothing really needs emphasising. Perhaps peregrinos should be issued with poo bags so such detritus can be carried until disposed of correctly. Have seen this working well in US state parks.

 

[Kathor1]

This article cited in the first post of this thread isn't about tissue paper or toilet paper. And the Cruz de Ferro isn't mentioned either.

It's interesting that they mention the crosses placed on wire fences. So far, I've managed not to get enraged about them . The author of the article suggests that many pilgrims leave these crosses not because of any religious reasons but due to imitation or sheer inertia. Not quite sure about the latter as not all but many of these samples of handiwork require a bit more manufacturing action than picking up a stone and putting it down a little bit later. I do think these masses of crosses look like a pretty empty gesture to me.

 

[lovingkindness]

...masses of crosses...

Signs for El Camino are beginning to appear in parts of Lithuania. A Camino symbol has been placed outside the information centre at Kryžių Kalnas (The Hill of Crosses)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_of_Crosses

...

 

[Kathor1]

Kryžių Kalnas (The Hill of Crosses)

That's interesting but I fail to see the connection. The mostly rather crude crosses on the Camino Frances appear at some random place (and not at a significant destination) because there happens to be a wire fence and some pieces of wood lying around in that random place and one can see what other people did with the stuff.

I don't know. Maybe I'm too cynical, maybe there's a cultural dissonance here. I quote from the article [and yes, I've seen them, too]: Those [crosses] manufactured from clothes or even socks are, fortunately, rare. Fortunately indeed.

 

[William Garza]

...masses of crosses...

Signs for El Camino are beginning to appear in parts of Lithuania. A Camino symbol has been placed outside the information centre at Kryžių Kalnas (The Hill of Crosses)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_of_Crosses

...

Icelandic Music Group Solstafir, filmed a video ..Hula in Lithuania and featured images from the Hill of Crosses.

 

[lovingkindness]

@Kathar1na

…The cross is an instrument of torture. An ill fitting pair of socks can be too. Perhaps the peregrino who fashioned a cross from his socks felt crucified by them....

 

[Sheffield James]

...masses of crosses...

Signs for El Camino are beginning to appear in parts of Lithuania. A Camino symbol has been placed outside the information centre at Kryžių Kalnas (The Hill of Crosses)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_of_Crosses

...

What an amazing place that is! I had the opportunity to visit it a few years ago and I was left speechless at the time.

 

[CiaraC]

Is it fair to call all the burdens and stones left behind at Cruz de Ferro junk? It's one of the most meaningful parts of the Camino for a lot of people and at least it's in the one spot.

 

[Bradypus]

Is it fair to call all the burdens and stones left behind at Cruz de Ferro junk? It's one of the most meaningful parts of the Camino for a lot of people and at least it's in the one spot.

I think that many of us would have no great objection if people only left a stone there as they passed by. But that no longer appears to be enough for many and the place is regularly covered in discarded clothing, paper and trinkets left to rot. A dispiriting sight.

 

[Bob P]

The Cruz De Ferrro was extremely important to me and I left a stone (from my 100 year old grandmother) But, there was a lot of "junk" being left as well. I'm sorry but all those ribbons, rags, socks and paper items do not have a place at CdF.
By far the most obnoxious is the grafitti. I started in SJPDP and saw very little until Leon. From Sarria to finish, I quit counting at over 100 paint scribbles of " Luv Wins" on distance markers. That person should be "drawn and quartered"!

 

[Kathor1]

…The cross is an instrument of torture. An ill fitting pair of socks can be too. Perhaps the peregrino who fashioned a cross from his socks felt crucified by them....

It's the symbol of Salvation, mainly, I think? It's odd, I don't quite know why socks and undergarments bother me in this context. Cultural dissonances, no doubt. I can laugh about and love the Life of Brian. Even laughed about some jokes about the concept of the Trinity I once saw in Charlie Hebdo. But I don't know ... I must be taking some of those old symbols I see along the way just way too seriously.

 

[yaying]

cross is an instrument of torture.

we are taught, from that cross, devoted a life for HIS love to HIS people, carry your cross to get across on the bridges of problems. it may seems a torture instrument for you but a sacred one for us.

 

[Kathor1]

I think by far the weirdest thing I've seen is this:



I only photographed the text. The whole thing is a - presumably custom made - ceramic plaque that is permanently fixed low on the front wall of the chapel next to the Cruz de Ferro actually. It says:

We are a married couple from Oberaurach - which is located in Germany, more precisely in Franconia (in Bavaria) close to the World Heritage town of Bamberg. From there we walked on foot in several stages through Germany, Switzerland and France and we are now on our last stage through Spain on the way to Santiago de Compostela. ​

"Whichever way you take - there will always be a few kilometers of bad road." (Saying from Spain). ​

Really WEIRD. I can't imagine that they had permission to put this there, or did they??

 

[yaying]

"junk" being left as well.

i never walk the camino, though just because they didn't left a stone and different as yours, doesn't mean they are junk, maybe same as you that is something they want to let it go?

 

[VNwalking]

The whole thing is a - presumably custom made - ceramic plaque that is permanently fixed low on the front wall of the chapel next to the Cruz de Ferro actually.

Yes, very strange indeed. And I'm curious - what was the rest of the plaque? And was any of the graffiti a reaction?

And someone carried this all that way?! As well as the adhesive to mount it on the wall?
Because? (No need to answer that, actually....)

 

[lovingkindness]

...It's the symbol of Salvation, mainly, I think?...

...Not for everyone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion

 

[Kathor1]

...Not for everyone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion

Come on, you didn't understand that I was talking about Christian iconography along the historic ways to the apostle Saint James? It's an interesting topic actually, we wondered about this recently: What do people see along the way, how do they interpret the meaning of what they see, on the portals of Romanesque churches or inside, who are not at all or only vaguely familiar with that background - if they bother to look at it at all? Unfortunately, it's not a topic that is suitable for this forum.

 

[Kathor1]

Yes, very strange indeed. And I'm curious - what was the rest of the plaque? And was any of the graffiti a reaction?

I think the rest of the plaque was initially empty. The graffiti is not related; graffiti just goes where there is empty space. Someone scribbled 2013 on it and I had a quick look on Google images. Looks like it wasn't there in 2010 for example. I may have been the first person in all these years who noticed and read the text.

"Yep" to the rest of your questions.

 

[Kanga]

Come on, you didn't understand that I was talking about Christian iconography along the historic ways to the apostle Saint James? It's an interesting topic actually, we wondered about this recently: What do people see along the way, how do they interpret the meaning of what they see, on the portals of Romanesque churches or inside, who are not at all or only vaguely familiar with that background - if they bother to look at it at all? Unfortunately, it's not a topic that is suitable for this forum.

Katharina I don't think there is a problem talking about or explaining the symbols and iconography - the rule on the forum is to prevent preaching and arguing about beliefs and religion. Davidson and Gitlitz's book The Pilgrimage Road to Santiago; the Complete Cultural Handbook contains much about the beliefs, the symbols and the iconography along the road. I can't think of any of it that would not be acceptable on this forum.

 

[Kanga]

How disappointing. I’ve just removed a post that did violate the rule. Please - just like on the Camino (think of the welcome said at Roncesvalles), we have every stripe on the forum - Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist- as well as Christians of all sorts - and the many, many of no religious faith at all.

 

[yaying]

violate the rule

im so sorry!

 

[Kathor1]

im so sorry!

Don't worry, @yaying, it happens to the best of us . You happily post, convinced that you are not preaching and arguing about beliefs and religion but a moderator doesn't share your opinion. Or you happily post, convinced that you are not preaching and arguing about beliefs and religion but a co-poster uses your post to go off the rails. It's the way of the internet.

 

[lovingkindness]

That's interesting but I fail to see the connection. The mostly rather crude crosses on the Camino Frances appear at some random place (and not at a significant destination) because there happens to be a wire fence and some pieces of wood lying around in that random place and one can see what other people did with the stuff...

Hi there, @Kathar1na

Connections: an attempt at replying...

…for a reason unknown to you and I, many years ago somebody felt significantly moved to thread a makeshift cross through the wires of a fence in Spain. Was it a spontaneous act in a random place or something habitual? Who knows?

Others passing by the fence felt moved to do the same. As time apaced the accumulation of improvised crosses resulted in a curiosity, a Camino icon much photographed and published.

…a few centuries earlier, something similar appeared in Lithuania. On a small hill in a country several thousand kilometres north of the ground on which there is now a Spanish fence , crosses sprouted. Nobody knows exactly why or when it started although there are a few local stories and speculations. Soon many more crosses were added, some ‘crude’ and hand-fashioned others more refined…

Several centuries and a regime-or-two later the Soviets banned pilgrimage to Kryžių Kalnas (The Hill of Crosses). The site was condemned and razed three times but the crosses kept reappearing. Today in Lithuania Kryžių Kalnas is acknowledged as a place of national significance and by Unesco as a world heritage site for cross-crafting and its symbolism. It has been blessed by the Pope…

Re the fence: Hundreds of thousands of pilgrims have walked beside this fence since the first crosses were threaded. What makes a destination significant? Who decides?

Cheers
Lovingkindness

 

[Bradypus]

Moving on ... the article mentions the padlocks but not the newest fad: a pair of trainers/sneakers hanging over power lines. I think I've seem at least 3 pairs so far along the Camino Frances. You need to look up to see them . That at least requires some skill if not patience ...

I walked part of the Via de la Plata and Camino Sanabres in January this year. I crossed the provincial border into Galicia on a day with a lot of mist and snow. Just on the Galician side there were two trees with a dozen or more pairs of shoes or boots hanging from branches. Quite a surreal and slightly disturbing sight in the bare trees with the damp and mist. Until that point I had always assumed my mother was right when she told me that new shoes don't grow on trees

 

[lovingkindness]

And the similarity is what I can't see. . ...

Hi there, again

Some similarities
...Here we have two examples of an accumulation of crosses. Both are situated along El Camino de Santiago. One is on a fence in Spain the other on a hill in Lithuania. Today, pilgrims walk by both places and at both sites there is a tradition of placing crosses. Some of these crosses are ‘crude’ and hand fashioned. One site has been officially accepted as a place of national significance and blessed by the Pope, the other hasn’t.

The crosses on the hill were razed three times only to reappear. If the makeshift crosses on the wire fence in Spain were all removed how soon would it be before pilgrim crosses reappeared?

Cheers

 

[Via2010]

Hi Rainer,

I can not believe that people do not learn from these things!

The situation around the lighthouse has imperished the last couple of years.

In June 2007, ending my first camino, I really liked to sit there in the evening and to watch the sunset. In June 2010 it was already much more noisy, people drinking wine from plastic mugs and leaving their trash behind.

Having finished the Via de la Plata I was shocked, to see People who had merely walked the last 100 km to Santiago and then gone to Fisterra by bus, trying to burn their almost new hiking gear. Because of all the plastic it smelled horrible.

In April 2012 they had turned Cabo Finisterre into a market-place with souvenir-Shops and lots of Tourist buses driving the people up there. That was my last visit!

This June, when reaching Fisterra, I refrained from walking to the lighthouse and instead watched the sunset at Praia Mar do Fora (the wild beach). It was a very peaceful atmosphere. I only regret, that I could not convince my italian fellow pilgrims to join me to this place.

BC
Alexandra

 

[Marbe2]

!!

 

[KinkyOne]

Hi Rainer,

I can not believe that people do not learn from these things!

The situation around the lighthouse has imperished the last couple of years.

In June 2007, ending my first camino, I really liked to sit there in the evening and to watch the sunset. In June 2010 it was already much more noisy, people drinking wine from plastic mugs and leaving their trash behind.

Having finished the Via de la Plata I was shocked, to see People who had merely walked the last 100 km to Santiago and then gone to Fisterra by bus, trying to burn their almost new hiking gear. Because of all the plastic it smelled horrible.

In April 2012 they had turned Cabo Finisterre into a market-place with souvenir-Shops and lots of Tourist buses driving the people up there. That was my last visit!

This June, when reaching Fisterra, I refrained from walking to the lighthouse and instead watched the sunset at Praia Mar do Fora (the wild beach). It was a very peaceful atmosphere. I only regret, that I could not convince my italian fellow pilgrims to join me to this place.

BC
Alexandra

I remember that market at the lighthouse from 2016 but this year early June it was surprisingly quiet. Maybe because of windy and chilly afternoon. No real tourists and maybe 20-30 people on the rocks waiting for sunset. It was nice.
Maybe they didn't start with the market because the main season in Spain didn't start yet?

 

[lovingkindness]

I do think these masses of crosses look like a pretty empty gesture to me.

ps

Hello, @Kathar1na

When I discover masses of crosses along El Camino I do not find them an empty gesture. I am moved by them. I feel the same about stacked stones and pebbles placed in remembrance. All that I posted above was in response to your comment. I didn't think to quote it in my first post.

Cheers

 

[trecile]

Moving on ... the article mentions the padlocks but not the newest fad: a pair of trainers/sneakers hanging over power lines. I think I've seem at least 3 pairs so far along the Camino Frances.

You need to look up to see them .

That at least requires some skill if not patience and perseverance ...

I've seen sneakers on power lines in US cities for decades.

 

[MichelleElynHogan]

There's a linked article about Fisterra particularly, including firemen dealing with the consequences of people burning clothes ...

https://www.lavozdegalicia.es/notic...a-manda-cabo-fisterra/0003_201809C18C3994.htm

I've never understood why so many people insist on behaving so selfishly on the Camino.

I wonder if it is the difference between the tourist and the Peregrino?

 

[KinkyOne]

Rarely mentioned these days is a pilgrim ritual that has died out, it seems. A pretty old booklet, written in Latin, has this to say in an English translation:

​

The mountain is eight miles up, and eight miles down the other side, and seems to touch the sky. Climb it and you'll feel you could push the sky with your hand. The view from the summit takes in the Sea of Brittany, the Atlantic Ocean, and three territories: Castille, Aragon and France. On the summit is a place called Charlemagne's Cross, because here Charlemagne, setting out with his armies for Spain, made a track with axes, picks and other digging tools. He first raised a cross and then knelt facing Galicia and poured out prayers to God and St James.​

​

And so it's traditional for pilgrims to kneel here facing St. James' homeland and to plant their own crosses. You might find a thousand crosses here, the first station of prayer on the Camino de Santiago.​

​

I didn't see a single cross planted near that place. Never saw a photo that would confirm that it is a contemporary ritual. I think people don't do this anymore ...

It's dangerous to post info like this. You might start new old ritual

 

[yaying]

between the tourist

never been there but wherever its between being respectful or ill-mannered.