Toilet tissue littering Camino Portugués

[Barbara2]

I have been walking the Camino Portugès starting in Porto. I am now in Caldas de Reis. One thing that disturbs me greatly as I walk the Camino is the amount of toilet trash littering the sides of the path. Out of respect for fellow pilgrims, everyone should carry a plastic bag in their pocket in which to carry used toilet paper until they can dispose of it in a proper container. Yes, toilet facilities are few and far between on the Camino. At some time or another, one will have to go in the bushes. But that does not mean you can leave you toilet paper along the Camino for everyone else to see. Sometimes, I felt like I was walking through a giant outdoor toilet. Disgusting.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

Sadly, this is becoming increasingly common on the Camino - whichever you walk. It's often commented on here.
Nonetheless, thanks for posting : the more attention this problem gets the better.

 

[Barbara2]

Education, education, education. We have to keep repeating the message: do not leave toilet trash — or any other trash — on the Camino. Backpackers’ trash motto “Pack it in, pack it out” also pertains to the Camino. Pilgrims will eventually get the message and learn to behave responsibly and respectfully.

 

[Dani7]

I agree with everything said here. Leave no trace. However I would bet good money that the majority of folks in this forum community get it and is mindful of their trash.

 

[Skinnybiker]

It's a good bet that most of those tissues are discarded late at night when all good peregrinos are sleeping like babes. In many parts of the world your own property is spotless but everywhere else is a tip. What can you do when the world has already exceeded its annual environmental limits? Richard (cup still half full).

 

[ShoshTrvls]

I agree with everything said here. Leave no trace. However I would bet good money that the majority of folks in this forum community get it and is mindful of their trash.

I would also bet that the people doing it know quite well it is wrong but don’t care, or have a wealth of excuses, and “educating them” also isn’t going to make a difference.

 

[Dani7]

I would also bet that the people doing know quite well it is wrong but don’t care, or have a wealth of excuses, and “educating them” also isn’t going to make a difference.

…but I can and will continue to do… although it makes me sad that some people don’t care.

I’m with Richard, my cup is always half full and when I really want to kick it up a notch I ask for a bigger cup.

 

[domigee]

I don’t understand why people do it, truly I don’t. In the UK where I walk, we often have to go in the bush cos there are no facilities anywhere but no-one, ever, would leave loo paper behind
It’s a mystery.

 

[trecile]

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

I don’t understand why people do it, truly I don’t. In the UK where I walk, we often have to go in the bush cos there are no facilities anywhere but no-one, ever, would leave loo paper behind
It’s a mystery.

At a guess?
Whenever a phenomenon concentrates and proliferates in one setting (the caminos being 'one kind of thing')... there has to be a common driving feature.
So what distinguishes caminos from the other walking holiday routes, or hiking routes?
It is "safe" for inexperienced people to pursue. Many won't have so much as walked to a corner store in decades, and (demographics being what they are on camino) many will have grown up at a time when peeing at the side of the road on a long car journey was pretty ordinary and someone tossed you a napkin from the glove compartment or a tissue from a purse and nobody wanted that thing brought back in the car.
Tissue does tend to be something only the women use for a trail-side stop and they just aren't thinking.
Not at all unlike the "nature lovers" who drive to the woods or a lake and toss their beer cans, soda cans, empty bait containers...
Ignorance, opportunity, and an aversion to holding onto what they find disgusting or inconvenient.
Solution? stop encouraging all the walkers to think that it's "their camino" --- too many take that to mean "to do whatever they want", instead of understanding "individual lessons will be uniquely yours."

 

[Saint Mike II]

There is a motto for Australian National Parks that goes something like this :
Take only photographs; leave only footprints.
Maybe my fellow pilgrims could join me and adopting this message. Buen Camino.

 

[Robo]

There is a motto for Australian National Parks that goes something like this :
Take only photographs; leave only footprints.
Maybe my fellow pilgrims could join me and adopting this message. Buen Camino.

Or start a Campaign like "Oi, you dropped something".

 

[Robo]

In a typical 'subtle' manner, here is an Australian advert about littering.
Maybe a Camino version would be good

I love the last one!

 

[VNwalking]

love the last one!

"What you do with your rubbish says a lot about you." Great line.

 

[MickMac]

Lot of people agreeing that using the side of the road as a latrine is abhorrent we need practical solutions.
Note that on a recent visit to Copenhagen and other European cities free dog litter bags beside bins maybe a campaign in all Albergues on Caminos giving out biodegradable bags and discouraging defecating along the trail may help.
Together with a signage placement at entrance of trail seen one on way to Samos very effective.

 

[Robo]

Just a thought.

As a relative 'newbie' having only walked 4 different routes so far......

The only one where the tissue was noticeable for me, was the Frances.

The others were 1. VdlP, 2. Invierno, 3. Fisterra/Muxia.

Is this because of the volume of people on the Frances?
Or because many other routes tend to be walked by 'repeat' Pilgrims?
(and therefore to a degree perhaps, more trail savvy?)

 

[Kathy F.]

Yes, carrying out your own personal hygiene trash is a basic tenet of the "Leave No Trace" philosophy. There are many simple systems available for this.

If you are preparing for your Camino, please make yourself familiar with them, pick one, pack it in your emergency kit, and use it if necessary.

 

[dfox]

toilet paper

As I understand not all types of toilet paper and facial tissues are de-composable. I think someone thought they are.

Even if they could be de-composable, it would take loooong time.

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

I have seen many signs along the way using universally understood graphic images that amount to "please do not crap on my stuff" notices.
Perhaps these signs (that I saw first near León in 2014) need to be posted earlier on; perhaps the major departure points, or even the pilgrim passbook/credenciales need a notice in them.
Because local broadcasts are for locals -- who aren't using the trail as a latrine. (That said, yes, locals in every part of the world litter; that's why anti-littering campaigns are needed).What else? Pilgrim associations that do preparation seminars should educate their members (who can educate people on the trail).
Also... I see often enough on the boards here that some people are still promoting "cat holes" for when one cannot avoid a more prolonged pit-stop. That strategy has now been shown to cause animal curiosity, with animals wandering great o hiking trails or roadsides to dig up what they are unable to identify (because they can kind of smell it, but it's not clearly recognisable). The new ecological science says: just leave it on the surface... same as any other animal (except one trying to hide traces from predators -- cats, for example). When it is out in the open, the other creatures know to avoid it, have no interest in trying to figure it out...
I'm saying "poop on the trail"... Be discreet; keep it out of the way. Don't use a farmer's agricultural produce as your latrine.
But, I've seen enough walkers over thousands of KM now that I know that people can be caught unawares...
I was once sickened after seafood (or maybe it was a person who got onto our bus to Fisterra and had a distinct "ill" smell about him) and I was grateful that when it struck me my walking was already over and I was ensconced in a hotel. I've heard of many people who are not so fortunate, and instead discover sometime after breakfast that their recent meal(s) have not gone down well.
On that... I have stopped in more than one "zona por descansar" where it was obvious that someone had not stepped far enough away from where others intended to stop for a rest, a snack...
I think that Pilgrim Associations and Confraternities would do well to add sanitary/toileting information to their materials.

 

[Colokid]

I have been walking the Camino Portugès starting in Porto. I am now in Caldas de Reis. One thing that disturbs me greatly as I walk the Camino is the amount of toilet trash littering the sides of the path. Out of respect for fellow pilgrims, everyone should carry a plastic bag in their pocket in which to carry used toilet paper until they can dispose of it in a proper container. Yes, toilet facilities are few and far between on the Camino. At some time or another, one will have to go in the bushes. But that does not mean you can leave you toilet paper along the Camino for everyone else to see. Sometimes, I felt like I was walking through a giant outdoor toilet. Disgusting.

Likewise on the Frances this spring. Would be helpful for pilgrim offices and auberges to educate pilgrims on this and other etiquette measures.

 

[obinjatoo]

I have been walking the Camino Portugès starting in Porto. I am now in Caldas de Reis. One thing that disturbs me greatly as I walk the Camino is the amount of toilet trash littering the sides of the path. Out of respect for fellow pilgrims, everyone should carry a plastic bag in their pocket in which to carry used toilet paper until they can dispose of it in a proper container. Yes, toilet facilities are few and far between on the Camino. At some time or another, one will have to go in the bushes. But that does not mean you can leave you toilet paper along the Camino for everyone else to see. Sometimes, I felt like I was walking through a giant outdoor toilet. Disgusting.

And if you ask EVERY SINGLE WOMAN what they do with their t.p. You'll get the same answer, "It's not MINE. I would NEVER leave it." And yet, magically, there it is... It's a mystery.

 

[Rmarkob]

As a male, I didn’t need toilet paper for my shorter stops, but carried some just in case of a more serious issue (ahem). I also carried 4 dog litter bags with the intent to carry and properly dispose of any paper used. Fortunately, I never needed it, but felt confident that I was prepared.

What always surprised me on both the CF and CP was the amount of paper literally ON the trail - not behind some bushes or a tree off to the side of the walking surface. What’s up with that?!?

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

And if you ask EVERY SINGLE WOMAN what they do with their t.p. You'll get the same answer, "It's not MINE. I would NEVER leave it." And yet, magically, there it is... It's a mystery.

There are some 350-400,000 people who receive the compostelas each year. We know that many walk without acquiring the certificate at the end, but it's a good benchmark for a sense of how many are out there.
@Kathar1na probably has the most recent percentage by gender, but I recall it was about 40% women. So, let's say a minimum of 140,000 women on the trail... many, many of whom will be older, will have had children (which often changes bladder holding capacity).... so, let's say that 1/3 are dealing with that, and they have to pee a few times a day, and they just haven't thought about it, haven't been educated about it. 50,000 women, and who knows how many would fall into the "don't know/don't care" group, but you can see how it would quickly result in thousands of "deposits".
I see hundreds of deposits in the last days of the Frances, from Sarria onward... remarkable less frequent earlier on.
Confirmation bias can lead to those of us who see dozens of deposits per day asserting things like "It's everywhere! by the ton! Must be thousands!"
Yes, probably thousands over the course of the season... but actually not that much at any given time... (similar to how the busiest trail still falls quiet at particular times of day).
In other words, it is not common practice; it is accumulated practice... and that shows us how very important it is to prevent even practices that are not that common.
BUT -- the suggestion that people are lying about it not being theirs is rather off the plot. The statistical probability is that you are not going to meet in the thousands upon thousands of women, the relatively small number who are dropping their tissues.
Most men are not sperm donors, but somehow there can be 346 offspring of a single donor. In some parts of the world you can easily meet so many half-siblings of a single donor that it could present a real hazard. That does not mean that the man who tells you he would never donate is lying.

 

[dooleyap123]

I have been walking the Camino Portugès starting in Porto. I am now in Caldas de Reis. One thing that disturbs me greatly as I walk the Camino is the amount of toilet trash littering the sides of the path. Out of respect for fellow pilgrims, everyone should carry a plastic bag in their pocket in which to carry used toilet paper until they can dispose of it in a proper container. Yes, toilet facilities are few and far between on the Camino. At some time or another, one will have to go in the bushes. But that does not mean you can leave you toilet paper along the Camino for everyone else to see. Sometimes, I felt like I was walking through a giant outdoor toilet. Disgusting.

I agree, but they’re no different from people with dogs. I’d like to know who they think is responsible for their mess?

 

[JustOneGuy]

This is also a big problem here (La Palma, Canary Islands). Everywhere I go, I meet no one (or almost no one), but it is full of perfectly visible white pieces of dirty paper a few meters from the paths. These people have no problem defecating in full view?

At least dig a small hole and cover it? Put a big rock over it so it dissolves over time?

Disgusting. They really suck.

 

[SuefromVegas]

As a past avid backpacker, the number one rule is if you pack it in you pack it out. I have used my dogs poop bags to collect everything and dispose of it when I came across a trash receptacle. This may gross you out but be a respectful fellow traveler. There is also the extreme health hazard. Come on people, be better than this.

 

[jrewins]

Unfortunately, this is a problem that does grow with the increasing #s on ALL of the Caminos. While I agree w/ PG that simple observation is not a valid metric of the problem, the accumulation of paper is still offensive to all of us (guys and gals). There is no excuse for the inconsiderate practice or littering…whether it’s TP or any other debris. Yes, we are preaching to the choir here, as most forum members are probably not in the offending group, but we need to keep the discussion alive AND present some potential remedies.

So here goes:
- Personal TP packages with bio disposable bags for the vending machines
- Solicit the Peregrino orgs to €/$/£ support a signage campaign for key locations on key routes
- Same signage campaign in an inexpensive bio disposable version for Albergues.
- Clean trail sponsors similar to the highway cleanup sponsorships available in the U.S. - Solicit peregrinos to €/$/£ local cleanup efforts, or DIY (I remember a trail cleanup effort, but don’t know the status)
- If all of us (peregrinos on this topic) were to bring a small trash bag, disposable gloves, and a mask (sharp sticks are usually available locally and all of these other items are in my pack anyway) on our next Camino and spend :15 - :30 cleaning up a single area…Hell, we spend 2 - 8 weeks tramping around Spain and while we do contribute economically to our host, we haven’t addressed this issue. The least we can do is pick up the trash left behind by some of our less considerate members.

Just some thoughts of what might be done to help alleviate a disgusting problem created by a selfish few.

 

[Jodean]

There are a lot of things happening here. One is the number of women who have never traveled outside of their countries, let alone had to pee in the wild. It is absolutely foreign to them. When you suggest using an FUD, they freak out a bit. Using those would cut down on TP use. When you suggest using a bandana which you can wash out at night or a kula cloth, you get a lot of EWWWWS!

There are people from a lot of countries walking and they may have a different idea about this whole subject and one of those countries is Spain. Having walked behind Spaniards and watching them casually drop their used tissue on the trail after blowing their nose, or talking to those who live here who say that if there is a vacant lot somewhere in the neighborhood, people will just throw all their trash there. As long as their own yard is clean, that is all that matters. People who litter in other countries are similar. I see it in the US and in Germany.
Unfortunately, they are not reading these forums, or are any of the FB forums. There just needs to be more signs in all of the albergues or on the Camino itself in multiple languages.

 

[Nandy61]

Just a thought.

As a relative 'newbie' having only walked 4 different routes so far......

The only one where the tissue was noticeable for me, was the Frances.

The others were 1. VdlP, 2. Invierno, 3. Fisterra/Muxia.

Is this because of the volume of people on the Frances?
Or because many other routes tend to be walked by 'repeat' Pilgrims?
(and therefore to a degree perhaps, more trail savvy?)

I think you make an excellent point and I think it's a combination of the two.

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

Unfortunately, this is a problem that does grow with the increasing #s on ALL of the Caminos. While I agree w/ PG that simple observation is not a valid metric of the problem, the accumulation of paper is still offensive to all of us (guys and gals). There is no excuse for the inconsiderate practice or littering…whether it’s TP or any other debris. Yes, we are preaching to the choir here, as most forum members are probably not in the offending group, but we need to keep the discussion alive AND present some potential remedies.

So here goes:
- Personal TP packages with bio disposable bags for the vending machines
- Solicit the Peregrino orgs to €/$/£ support a signage campaign for key locations on key routes
- Same signage campaign in an inexpensive bio disposable version for Albergues.
- Clean trail sponsors similar to the highway cleanup sponsorships available in the U.S. - Solicit peregrinos to €/$/£ local cleanup efforts, or DIY (I remember a trail cleanup effort, but don’t know the status)
- If all of us (peregrinos on this topic) were to bring a small trash bag, disposable gloves, and a mask (sharp sticks are usually available locally and all of these other items are in my pack anyway) on our next Camino and spend :15 - :30 cleaning up a single area…Hell, we spend 2 - 8 weeks tramping around Spain and while we do contribute economically to our host, we haven’t addressed this issue. The least we can do is pick up the trash left behind by some of our less considerate members.

Just some thoughts of what might be done to help alleviate a disgusting problem created by a selfish few.

I agree with all your points. I just don’t think that the proliferation of debris is because all the women are lying about not leaving TP on the ground. The math on something that won’t biodegrade any time soon is that it doesn’t take long to “pile up” so to speak.
AND I don’t think that pilgrims should be taking it upon themselves to handle the biohazards others leave behind…. Not even with gloves and masks… because many people will get the protocols wrong…. Before we know it, there’s a dysentery outbreak (or worse).
Picking up litter? Yes… all the rest of it… yes. Educate others… talk to people on the trail… have information put into credenciales, and onto the elevation maps that get handed out, have simple signage…
But do not handle other people’s sewage.

 

[bullingtonce]

I have been walking the Camino Portugès starting in Porto. I am now in Caldas de Reis. One thing that disturbs me greatly as I walk the Camino is the amount of toilet trash littering the sides of the path. Out of respect for fellow pilgrims, everyone should carry a plastic bag in their pocket in which to carry used toilet paper until they can dispose of it in a proper container. Yes, toilet facilities are few and far between on the Camino. At some time or another, one will have to go in the bushes. But that does not mean you can leave you toilet paper along the Camino for everyone else to see. Sometimes, I felt like I was walking through a giant outdoor toilet. Disgusting.

This, unfortunately, will continue as it is. Human nature is human nature. It changes, but ever so slowly, probably measured in decades and centuries. Not sure what the remedy is other than draconian enforcement and large fines or other pilgrims picking up the trash. Chuck

 

[Annette london]

I don’t understand why people do it, truly I don’t. In the UK where I walk, we often have to go in the bush cos there are no facilities anywhere but no-one, ever, would leave loo paper behind
It’s a mystery.

Agree with you domigee
We walk all over England and only once in a blue moon do we see toilet paper on the paths/bushes and very little types of other litter also, and some of these paths are well walked and popular
As I’ve said a million times, just use the same tissue again, it’s not like it’s drenched from a pee and neither is urine a toxic substance
And as for the other tissue usage, I’m not going to go there (excuse the pun)

 

[Nanners]

I didn't notice tissue on the Portuguese trail last year but my son remarked on the amount of discarded tissue when he stepped off the trail and into the bushes to relieve himself. I've wondered, why aren't there porto potties on the Camino? My town has them in various public parking areas, mostly parks, and they are used by many people besides park visitors: postal carriers, delivery workers, utility workers, trash haulers, etc. Perhaps on of the camino organizations can sponsor the porto potties?

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

I didn't notice tissue on the Portuguese trail last year but my son remarked on the amount of discarded tissue when he stepped off the trail and into the bushes to relieve himself. I've wondered, why aren't there porto potties on the Camino? My town has them in various public parking areas, mostly parks, and they are used by many people besides park visitors: postal carriers, delivery workers, utility workers, trash haulers, etc. Perhaps on of the camino organizations can sponsor the porto potties?

This question has been answered many times not he forum… but the upshot is that municipalities cannot afford it, that there isn’t one large camino overseer… and there isn’t a sufficient population in each ayumiento (often part of “España desnuda”) to support luxuries for those who go fairly literally dribbling through in the walking season.
They can’t afford it.

 

[Tincatinker]

Thanks @Perambulating Griffin, such a valuable point. There is no one “in charge” on Camino. There is no “authority”. There is no “responsible body”; just the pilgrim.

 

[trecile]

My town has them in various public parking areas, mostly parks, and they are used by many people besides park visitors: postal carriers, delivery workers, utility workers, trash haulers, etc.

Those work well for local people because they know where they are. Pilgrims are unlikely to know where they will encounter a Porta Potty, so they will use the bushes off trail.

I've seen people on the Camino pass through a town with several bars without stopping to use those facilities, and just a couple of hundred meters later they are off into the bushes to do their business. So access to toilets is usually not the issue.

 

[dooleyap123]

There is a motto for Australian National Parks that goes something like this :
Take only photographs; leave only footprints.
Maybe my fellow pilgrims could join me and adopting this message. Buen Camino.

Same in South Africa and probably the rest of the world, but it doesn’t apply to THEM

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

There are a lot of things happening here. One is the number of women who have never traveled outside of their countries, let alone had to pee in the wild. It is absolutely foreign to them. When you suggest using an FUD, they freak out a bit. Using those would cut down on TP use. When you suggest using a bandana which you can wash out at night or a kula cloth, you get a lot of EWWWWS!

There are people from a lot of countries walking and they may have a different idea about this whole subject and one of those countries is Spain. Having walked behind Spaniards and watching them casually drop their used tissue on the trail after blowing their nose, or talking to those who live here who say that if there is a vacant lot somewhere in the neighborhood, people will just throw all their trash there. As long as their own yard is clean, that is all that matters. People who litter in other countries are similar. I see it in the US and in Germany.
Unfortunately, they are not reading these forums, or are any of the FB forums. There just needs to be more signs in all of the albergues or on the Camino itself in multiple languages.

I’ve never seen trash thrown into a vacant lot *so long as* the ayumiento had not stopped supplying waste removal services to an area. I don’t think that the Spanish residents care any less about their surroundings than anyone else. I do think that when you are quite elderly and there’s no longer garbage service in your tiny town, population 25-or-so, that the bombed out wreck down the block gets “re-purposed”.
Spain is, indeed, not a third world country (as we frequently remind people)… but it has its hardships… and the last 100 or so years have not been kind to rural Spain.

 

[Getwood]

I'm no expert, seeing as how I had to bail on the Camino Frances after just six days (injuries, what else?), but there were a couple of places where a porta-potty could be set up as a volunteer effort, and paid for by small donations by the peregrinos that use them. One such place is the staging area at Alto de Erro just before the descent into Zubiri. I know people would have the cash with them, since they're all buying drinks from the food truck that's often there anyways.

Also, as a hiker when I was younger, allow me to recommend the following book, still available on Amazon:

   How To Shit In The Woods

A classic, now in its 4th edition, and with lots of common-sense solutions to the perennial problem of "how to go outside."

 

[Tincatinker]

Those work well for local people because they know where they are. Pilgrims are unlikely to know where they will encounter a Porta Potty, so they will use the bushes off trail.

I've seen people on the Camino pass through a town with several bars without stopping to use those facilities, and just a couple of hundred meters later they are off into the bushes to do their business. So access to toilets is usually not the issue.

Any Ditch Pig would tell you that the heaviest accumulation of discarded bocadillo wraps and drink cans occurs at the optimum munching and gulping distance from the last point of supply. It’s a model McDonalds follow with there litter patrols.

That pilgrims would rather shit in the woods than put a Euro on the jump of the last place they passed with built in plumbing is, I guess, just part of Eco-tourism ( Eco as in economic rather than anything environmental).

I was born in a ditch. We always shat in the woods. But no one would ever have known we’d been there