- Time of past OR future Camino
- Too many and too often!
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Even if they did, so many have no real understanding of how these conditions will affect them. They simply don’t have the experience to make an informed decision.I wonder if these people checked in with the Pilgrim Office to get a weather report before they left SJPP. I would bet they did not.
Exactly.Fitness & health is a factor as well as time of year.
That is a very good point regarding a pilgrim's understanding. I wonder if the volunteers in the Pilgrim Office discuss how dangerous walking can be and if they have the experience and the proper clothes to protect themselves.Even if they did, so many have no real understanding of how these conditions will affect them. They simply don’t have the experience to make an informed decision.
Exactly.
Or, as @Antnix1 says, “they bring unsuitable equipment/clothes/footwear.”
That was very diligent of you! Did you get an explanation about this confusing and conflicting information?I left SJPP on 15th, although Pilgrims Office assured us pass was open, signs said Closed. Went back and rechecked with office and they assured us it was open.
Not really. Something about when "they" decide to make final sign change for season.That was very diligent of you! Did you get an explanation about this confusing and conflicting information?
Thank you for your reply! And buen Camino!Not really. Something about when "they" decide to make final sign change for season.
Buen camino, @Flog . May you not get stuck anywhere along the way.Not somewhere I'd want to be stuck
They do and 2 years ago -exactly!- today, they closed the pass because of snow falls and very high winds. The conditions were horrendous.That is a very good point regarding a pilgrim's understanding. I wonder if the volunteers in the Pilgrim Office discuss how dangerous walking can be and if they have the experience and the proper clothes to protect themselves.
The people that support pilgrims in their journey are so wonderful. Thanks for letting us know.They do and 2 years ago -exactly!- today, they closed the pass because of snow falls and very high winds. The conditions were horrendous.
Everyone had to go through Valcarlos. Except the few who had booked at Orisson or Borda and then we were checked for adequate clothing/ experience etc. I couldn’t fault them, they were brilliant.
Hi all, 62 year old reasonably fit for my age on my first Camino. I walked the Napoleon Way out of SJPDP on Thursday 18th - by the time we reached the Croix de Thibault we had what I would describe as close to freezing rain blowing up the mountain by strong winds. It was a seriously tough day to start.The Burguete bomberos had another busy day yesterday. Picking up two pilgrims with symptoms of hypothermia and exhaustion near the Lepoeder pass and another near the Croix de Thibault who was taken to the Burguete medical centre.
Rescatados dos peregrinos en Lepoeder con fatiga e hipotermia leve
Otra peregrina ha tenido que ser rescatada cerca de la Cruz de Thibaut, también con síntomas de hipotermiawww.diariodenavarra.es
Obviously "they" means something different in Norway. "They" means "not me, somebody else, I don't know". Katar1na asked if I got an explanation for the discrepancy and the answer was clearly no explanation available.When I read this about "they" having to close etc., I get a little provoked. Here at home we have mountain peaks of over 2400moh, and in so many places there are tourist buses full of inexperienced people. Who do you think pays for all the helicopters, first aid and rescues?
It's a political issue here at home, I understand that you don't think about it as long as the individual's travel insurance is OK. But don't take the help for granted.
My French and Spanish are minimal but I think the core meaning is fairly clear. For those who have even less linguistic ability than me then Google Translate and a phone camera should make it even clearer. Something I have done a number of times with totally incomprehensible (to me) signs and menus in Japanese and I have been deeply impressed with the results. But perhaps my expectations are too high - I have often been surprised at the number of people who have been unable to identify their own country in Spanish from the list on the Santiago pilgrim office registration page .. Am I the only one who wonders about how information is communicated to an international pilgrims population.
I know that online machine translation can get amazing usable results.Google Translate
Here in the UK we often read stories of people contacting the emergency services via the 999 phone service for very trivial reasons. I sometimes wonder about some of the callouts that the Burguete bomberos respond to on the Route Napoleon. Whether the people calling for help are genuinely exhausted and/or hypothermic or instead have just discovered the experience is more challenging and uncomfortable than they have expected. Of course the emergency services take their role seriously and will err on the side of caution.Someone “cliffed out” while climbing the local 14ers or falling down a scree slope or breaking an ankle from a climbing fall is very different from the call I heard about recently where a tourist ran out of water and called Mountain Rescue. They not only wanted someone to bring them bottled water, but requested Fiji brand.
This refers to a different day, namely Friday April 12. The person writes on FB that he broke his leg (I got to the top of the mountain out of sjpdp (col de lepoeder?), then tripped and broke my leg). The photo that he posted shows a cloudless blue sky and great views.This may be one of the rescued walkers, looking to thank those involved.
Richard Smith
>>the rescue team that met me on the mountain was 5 guys in 2 small jeeps from the bomberos squad.>> Maybe the Bomberos in Burguete. See this article dated 12 April, says they rescued three pilgrims...www.facebook.com
Hi @grayland - I could have written this pretty much word for word for what happened to me on 3 May 2014. I set out from SJPP in the warmth of the sun. Things still ok at Orisson.Then, not too much later, I had to take shelter in the small hut for some time. I vividly recall one peregrina in tears - all I could do was offer her some chocolate. It was her first day and she too had set out in sunshine, not expecting this. I had walked from Le Puy so I was a bit 'hardened' by then - but, it was SO WINDY, SO WET and SO COLD! Things can change quickly. So, even if the forecast is good - as you say, always be prepared.I once walked from SJPP on May 1st. The day before in St. Jean was sunny and very warm for late April with people sitting on patios in tee shirts.
May 1 in SJPP in the early morning was overcast and chilly. After we passed Orisson it became bitter cold with overnight snow on the ground and freezing rain. The zippers on our coats and packs were frozen shut.
The little hut was very cold and crowded with some group that had started earlier from Orisson and did not know if they should go forward or turn back.
so.....always be prepared when walking the Napoleon in the Spring.
I did my crossing on May 9th or 10th last year, and felt exactly the same! It was too much of a risk to stop. I was glad of the emergency hut, which at the very least got me out of the wind while I took some food.I walked from Borda to Roncesvalles on Thursday April 18 and it was very cold with high winds, freezing rain/sleet, and very low visibility. We knew the weather was going to be bad, but it was worse than expected. Although well prepared I was still very cold - it was a bit of a catch 22 as I felt I was too cold to risk stopping
Unfortunately for us the hut was crammed full with no more room inside, and on the lee side outside (downwind), someone had decided to use it as a toilet, leaving feces out in the open. Quite disgraceful and not somewhere we wanted to stop to rest or for food.I did my crossing on May 9th or 10th last year, and felt exactly the same! It was too much of a risk to stop. I was glad of the emergency hut, which at the very least got me out of the wind while I took some food.
Yo just mentioned on another thread, beautiful clear day yesterday leaving Sjpdp and snowing on the way to Roncesvalles today.I once walked from SJPP on May 1st. The day before in St. Jean was sunny and very warm for late April with people sitting on patios in tee shirts.
May 1 in SJPP in the early morning was overcast and chilly. After we passed Orisson it became bitter cold with overnight snow on the ground and freezing rain. The zippers on our coats and packs were frozen shut.
The little hut was very cold and crowded with some group that had started earlier from Orisson and did not know if they should go forward or turn back.
so.....always be prepared when walking the Napoleon in the Spring.
I agree with much of your post but weather in the mountains is not unpredictable. It can change quickly which is something different but even then within limits. The temperature will not rise from 1 ºC to 25 ºC within minutes, not even within an hour.As we all know, weather in the mountains is unpredictable.
I agree with much of your post but weather in the mountains is not unpredictable. It can change quickly which is something different but even then within limits. The temperature will not rise from 1 ºC to 25 ºC within minutes, not even within an hour.
The low temperatures in recent days had been predicted by the weather models. The likelihood of precipitation was known. Wind chill factor, wind gusts - also predicted although there is always a bit of variations to one side or the other. It does not mean that the weather forecast was wrong, as one can read so often. That it gets colder - compared to the valley - the higher one climbs and that this is a significant factor when you climb for 1000+ meters has been a known fact for what? Centuries?
Pilgrims being uninformed and unprepared is a factor in many of these rescue reports.
I agree with most of what you say, especially starting already tired. That said, the oxygen level is not really a problem going over a fairly low pass. A bit over 1000 metres for St Jean pied de Port, rather more for Somport. There is an article on wiki https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_high_altitude_on_humansEven in the clearest, most perfect weather, hikers can get in trouble due to the elevation and lessened oxygen levels. This is especially true for those with a compromised respiratory system, but can easily affect residents used to living at low elevations or travelers suffering from jet lag. So many pilgrims want to fly long distances, travel immediately upon arrival, spend a fitful night of unrest in an SJPdP albergue, and then walk further than they ever have before to reach Roncesvalles without considering the impact that has on their physical health.
That's a 24⁰ range. The record is 27⁰ in two minutes due to a Chinook wind, a downhill warming of the wind.The temperature will not rise from 1 ºC to 25 ºC within minutes, not even within an hour.
To be fair, there is a fair bit of distance both physically and perhaps meteorologically between the Cize Pass and South Dakota.That's a 24⁰ range. The record is 27⁰ in two minutes due to a Chinook wind, a downhill warming of the wind.
Spearfish sets world record of largest variance in temperature | South Dakota History
On January 22nd, 1943, Spearfish achieved a world record for the largest variance in temperature in the shortest amount of time.listen.sdpb.org
I knew that extreme temperature drops (or rises) can happen when I wrote my post. I was writing in the context of "weather in the mountains is unpredictable".That's a 24⁰ range. The record is 27⁰ in two minutes due to a Chinook wind, a downhill warming of the wind.
I remember reading one year that there was snow on the Napoleon route in June!BTW, this current "cold snap" is coming to an end now.
It is nothing unusual for April in this part of the world,
Exactly.At the very least on the evening of the coming day one can have a pretty good idea of what it is going to be like the next day
No, not this one - I think you're right on.Of course now someone will come along
Dare I?When one watches the behaviours on the Lepoeder pass seen in the EFE video, one understands better why there are these "rescue" operations. This is not a dangerous mountains situation as it is commonly understood. Nobody would dream of speaking about closing such a trail to the right and left in the Pyrenees or in the Alps, let alone actually have it closed by some authority or other during April to October.
What I see in the video are persons who move relatively fast and confident; quickly consult their mobile phone to see where they are and where to go; descend fast with legs apart, making short zig-zags, quickly assessing where to put the foot next, using poles on both sides to assist a bit with balance. Then there others who, I don't know how to describe it in English, totter downhill, hesitant, feet close together and parallel, with both poles ahead of their bodies stuck into the soil, slipping even, and not knowing where to go, is it this way or that way, walking forwards a bit along the road and then backwards again, they may have been given the sheet with the detailed illustrated map as a handout in SJPP but now it is in the backpack and with the weather it is too inconvenient to get it out and look at it. One pilgrim walker wears a summer strawhat and another one wears shorts and has bare legs.
I am not dissing these people personally. They made it to the Lepoeder pass in one piece and under their own steam and they did not need the Burguete Bomberos. But I think it is symptomatic.
Of course now someone will come along and explain how much that strawhat warms in wintery conditions or that it is better than nothing, and the pilgrim with the bare legs will be from England, Wales or Scotland and has worn shorts in April since he was a small boy in kindergarten and he is not going to change his habit for one day on the Route Napoleon or he prefers that his skin gets wet by snow, rain and hail instead of the legs of any long trousers getting wet and clinging to his skin.
Family insider joke about how small kids are dressed in March and April and difference between two or three countries. Nothing to take too seriously.It is so disappointing that *the pilgrim with bare legs will be from England, Wales or Scotland" and nowhere else.
To be expected but disappointing nonetheless.
No we have them here in the US as well. Usually teenaged or college-aged boys who also don't bother with a coat either. I see them daily as I walk to work on my university campus. I am dressed in puffy coat, buff, ear band, gloves, long pants, etc and they are marching along in the cold Wyoming wind dressed for the beach.It is so disappointing that *the pilgrim with bare legs will be from England, Wales or Scotland" and nowhere else.
To be expected but disappointing nonetheless.
Gary Larson from the Far Side ... never fails to make me laugh.Dare I?
Oh what the hell...
You no doubt do, as every nation does.No we have them here in the US as well. Usually teenaged or college-aged boys who also don't bother with a coat either. I see them daily as I walk to work on my university campus. I am dressed in puffy coat, buff, ear band, gloves, long pants, etc and they are marching along in the cold Wyoming wind dressed for the beach.
Agreed.You no doubt do, as every nation does.
It is nice not to stereotype by nationality on an International forum.
I wanted to add something but I did not have time earlier. I find the cartoon very funny but I'd like to say again that I don't want to imply that people are stupid but rather that they are uninformed and don't properly assess the implications for themselves.Gary Larson from the Far Side ... never fails to make me laugh.
It was cold, windy and very rainy last year when I crossed, and he was there.Which made me wonder: Does the guy with the food stall / van near the Croix Thibault even drive up on days when the weather is very bad?
We have been stereotyped by a particular country for 800 years..You no doubt do, as every nation does.
It is nice not to stereotype by nationality on an International forum.
We have been stereotyped by a particular country for 800 years..
Get over it.
Indeed, that poor family got the rough end of it too..Jesus, Mary and Joseph and the wee donkey
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