- Time of past OR future Camino
- Last 114km C. Frances, Jul 21
2023 - C. Primitivo
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You are wrongI’m often wrong (so often that you could reliably make money by betting against me.) But I thought it was 200km on an ‘orse.
The stables of The Pilgrim Horse are between Sarria and Portomarin, and I believe they often have groups that ride Sarria to SdC over 4 days, with bags transported.I've often seen a group of ten or so riders on horseback, usually quite a disperate group, and sometimes not properly kitted out, in the middle of Praza Obradoiro around 8 o'clock in the morning (I think to comply with local by-laws, they have to be out of the city, and all the shit picked up and everything by 9am or so). If I see one of them attempting an awkward selfie, I might approach and offer to take a group photo with one of their phones, and they're always delighted. They don't give me the impression of being pilgrims or having been on the horses long, though I've never asked them how far they've come.. I must do, one of the days...
I'm guessing there must be stables with horses for rent kept close to Santiago, perhaps they're trailered out further afield to be ridden back?
Yes. I think their last stop is in Monte de Gozo.So they must have facilities at each stage and at Santiago, no? To arrive on the square fresh looking shortly after dawn, they can't have come far?
I did tell you I would be wrong.You are wrongThe Pilgrim Office website says 100 km by horse.
I have seen riders on the VDLP, but I think it is a major operation likely to be done in sections with major support! I have no ideal how many might reach Santiago.
I’m often wrong (so often that you could reliably make money by betting against me.) But I thought it was 200km on an ‘orse.
You are wrongThe Pilgrim Office website says 100 km by horse.
Tell that to John Wayne…It seems like more work to go by horse than walking since you have to shelter and feed it.
it’s not often you’re wrong, but you’re right this time.I did tell you I would be wrong.
No, it's 100 km on foot or by horse.it’s not often you’re wrong, but you’re right this time.
Sorry - I was being flippant!No, it's 100 km on foot or by horse.
in response toNo, it's 100 km on foot or by horse.
From the Pilgrim's Office:
To get the “Compostela” you must: Make the pilgrimage for religious or spiritual reasons, or at least an attitude of search.
Do the last 100 km on foot or horseback, or the last 200 km by bicycle.
The Compostela: accreditation of the pilgrimage to Santiago
The “Compostela“, the accreditation of the pilgrimage to the Tomb of St. James.oficinadelperegrino.com
who was, himself, responding toit’s not often you’re wrong, but you’re right this time.
I think Peregrinopaul was saying that henrythedog was correct in acknowledging his error. So, at this point, everyone was in agreement that it is 100km by horse.I did tell you I would be wrong.
We'd need a horseback peregrino emoji/smiley to really emphasise this.So, at this point, everyone was in agreement that it is 100km by horse.
I met a gentleman riding a beautiful stallion just after O Cebrerio on the Frances. I was too impressed with his horse to bother asking any questions about where they were staying.
There is, apparently, a book that is now about 12 ish years old (so a bit outdated) that was a sort of guide to riding the Frances and self managing the journey but I don't know the title or author.
That is a guess at the age of the book. It could well be way out!
I’m pleased that someone is paying attention. You’re right, of course (or wrong, if that’s right in this case). Horse: 100km.in response to
who was, himself, responding to
I think Peregrinopaul was saying that henrythedog was correct in acknowledging his error. So, at this point, everyone was in agreement that it is 100km by horse.
you think she'd get the hump ?I can just imagine the look on @dbiers niece's face when she hears the suggestion that she might want to consider riding in on a camel....
I, too, used to think that riding on horseback belongs to the same category as biking and that walking on foot was a different category. Until I learnt how long it takes to cover the same distance. Travelling on horseback is not much faster than walking on foot and it takes a walker about the same number of days to cover 100 km as a rider. I should have known because the peregrin@s on horses that I did encounter on the Camino Francés did not exactly gallop past me.Do the last 100 km on foot or horseback, or the last 200 km by bicycle
Thank you. I don't remember seeing that.
The time Factor makes a lot of sense for the Compostela.I, too, used to think that riding on horseback belongs to the same category as biking and that walking on foot was a different category. Until I learnt how long it takes to cover the same distance. Travelling on horseback is not much faster than walking on foot and it takes a walker about the same number of days to cover 100 km as a rider. I should have known because the peregrin@s on horses that I did encounter on the Camino Francés did not exactly gallop past me.
From the internet: Normal human walking speed is around 3-4 miles (4.8-6.4 km) per hour. Horses have four basic gaits, but only the walk can be sustained for long periods of time. The horse's four-beat walk averages 6.4 kilometers per hour (4.0 mph).
Camel speed is pretty much the same. I should know because I walked with them on a trip once. for about 5 days or so. With them, not on them.
It’s about the time spent on Camino pilgrimage, people, not about the distance covered.
I thought it was pretty cool that it was a free albergue! And it was around 5-10km from Santiago too. I also had seen a few days earlier some peregrinos’ horses casually munching grass in the center of Palas de Rei. This was on about May 30th of this year. I know there were horses that had gone before me almost every day; you know how I knew!Thank you. I don't remember seeing that.
The time Factor makes a lot of sense for the Compostela.
Although I have to say that like us humans not all horses are created equal. I'm no equestrian - that is my sister's field of expertise. When I saw the horses on camino I sent her a photo via WhatsApp, she like I was curious to know what sort of distance they were covering each day.
She advised me that the horses many people keep for weekend riding would generally only cover around 30- 40 km a day, ( as above, much like us humans ) her's would easily do 70 to 90 km, and a trained endurance horse comfortably 150 kilometers per day - although generally for limited periods eg three days at a time. She wasn't at all surprised that they walked into Santiago the next morning - around 50 km away. She pointed out that after a few weeks on the Norte they would have been in peak condition, especially if their riders had been responsible and done initial training with them first!
1 point I should mention - they were not carrying any equipment, they had a backup vehicle (complete with trailer in case of injuries). A really nice bunch of young guys, sadly I didn't get to speak with them for long because the horses were absolutely 'rearing' to go!
That would be quite a race a thousand km or more across Spain.... Although as I understand it the mongolians change steeds every 40 km or something like that - my neighbour was training for endurance racing this year and I remember she had the same horse for every day of her endurance race. Don't know how many kilometers or days that was for though ( I think 400 km over 3 days? )I'm working on endurance riding and getting me in shape as well as my horse. So many people think "Oh, you just sit on a horse and the horse does all the work." Those people obviously don't ride daily.
Here's an idea! Howabout an endurance race across Spain on the Camino? There is one across Mongolia, why not Spain?
Kate
Not being a rider, I found taking a horse to O Cebreiro was harder than walking.you think she'd get the hump ?
I like the idea of O'Cebreiro on horseback but it's not for me and have also seen a few donkeys and mules on various stages of the Frances. 1 who had a dog riding the donkey too ( Jack Russell )
That's interesting. Some of the stages in the Codex Calixtinus are pretty long and I always assumed that was because they were riding not walking.Travelling on horseback is not much faster than walking on foot and it takes a walker about the same number of days to cover 100 km as a rider.
There was also horse and cart/carriage.That's interesting. Some of the stages in the Codex Calixtinus are pretty long and I always assumed that was because they were riding not walking.
Did horses pulling carts/carriages in the time of the Codex Calixtinus have significantly greater endurance than horses carrying riders?There was also horse and cart/carriage.
You have to remember that people would switch horses every 25 to 40K.Did horses pulling carts/carriages in the time of the Codex Calixtinus have significantly greater endurance than horses carrying riders?
One reason for that is that travelling by such means was looked down upon as a peasant means of transport, though women even high-born, used it too. In the Mediaeval Romances, being publicly carted off to prison or to execution was considered in itself as ruinous of personal honour, which persisted until after the French Revolution -- Aristocrats taken to prison or the guillotine were often transported there by cart.Also, for whatever it is worth, the medieval illuminations of pilgrims I recall (from Canterbury Tales manuscripts) show the pilgrims riding horses not being pulled in a cart or carriage.
NOT correct. Only a Kings messenger or some other government official would use this system on a regular basis although the rich could of course avail themselves of the service if they were in a hurry. But remember, a good horse was highly prized.You have to remember that people would switch horses every 25 to 40K.
Depends where you're talking about, but on the main roads in Southern Europe it was definitely possible. Which is where we're talking about. As to Northern Europe, you have more of a point, as there the Roman infrastructures collapsed more extensively than in the South, including the support infrastructures along the roads.NOT correct. Only a Kings messenger or some other government official would use this system on a regular basis although the rich could of course avail themselves of the service if they were in a hurry. But remember, a good horse was highly prized.
Depends which ones, and which pilgrimage.Pilgrims wealthy enough to set out on horseback would hope to complete the entire journey there and back with the same horse.
Which Century are you talking about ?They may have pack horses with them, or provisions might be towed behind in a cart. Which would of course slow them down. Brigands were a very real issue, so many would ride in groups when possible, perhaps even employing guards.
So did I before I learnt that Book V of the Codex Calixtinus was not used as a pilgrim’s guidebook like today’s Brierley or the WisePilgrim app and that the title that was given to it in a 1938 translation from Latin into French (“Guide du Pèlerin”) is a misnomer or at least a modern invention but it is a title that stuck. The stages are not daily stages.That's interesting. Some of the stages in the Codex Calixtinus are pretty long and I always assumed that was because they were riding not walking.
Mediaeval and Renaissance pilgrim itineraries (not dissimilar to the some of the photocopied handouts provided at the Pilgrim Office in SJPP) give a far more accurate picture of the stages people walked -- spoiler alert, very similar to nowadays.The stages are not daily stages.
A very valid point. I have to admit I was thinking of those wealthy enough to afford a horse as being rich, I used the term far too loosely.you're talking about "the rich", except that of course only "the rich" would do a Camino on horseback in the first place.
No problem, as I am located in Southern Europe I was myself not thinking about the North, and your post helped clarify things !!I stand corrected, thank you !
For clarification: When I wrote that "The stages are not daily stages" I was referring to the so-called Pilgrim's Guide of the Codex Calixtinus and it was written around more or less 1140-1180.Mediaeval and Renaissance pilgrim itineraries (not dissimilar to the some of the photocopied handouts provided at the Pilgrim Office in SJPP) give a far more accurate picture of the stages people walked -- spoiler alert, very similar to nowadays.
Some of the narratives that I've read do give detail on the daily stages of the individual pilgrims who wrote them, but you're of course quite right about no daily "stages" being "defined" by them, just as no individual Live from the Camino thread in here would do so either. They're just personal accounts of individual pilgrimages.I have read a number of later actual pilgrim guides, or detailed narratives of individual pilgrims, and I checked a few to refresh my memory before I wrote the post. None of them defines or mentions "daily" stages.
Exactly.Anyway, they rode then to Santiago and they ride now to Santiago and we now know that it does not take 13 days to ride to Santiago but 30 days on horseback. In normal mode.
I ride at a stable that focuses on trail and endurance riding (not dressage). Though we do go on hunter pace rides for fun. (Well, me for fun, others for competition.) I've taken the Endurance Camps there. So I get to set up a tent, put up a small electric fence paddock, care for my horse, and go on rides, learning to pass other horses, ride alone, get the horse to drink, check their vitals, etc. -- On the actual endurance races, so far I have been ground crew at the vet checks. Helping to cool down the horse, get food into the human, etc. I am hoping to ride in the Hector Half Hundred this coming September (that's 50 miles) in one day. One hundred miles takes two days. So, 400km (300 miles) over three days is one heck of a challenge! I'm eyeing a ride across the highlands for next year... But can I ride daily for a week or ten days?That would be quite a race a thousand km or more across Spain.... Although as I understand it the mongolians change steeds every 40 km or something like that - my neighbour was training for endurance racing this year and I remember she had the same horse for every day of her endurance race. Don't know how many kilometers or days that was for though ( I think 400 km over 3 days? )
What's your experience with it?
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