The relics of Sant Iago

[sillydoll]

I started researching the relics of St James in 2008 and since then have collected a number of accounts of places that claim to have relics of St James the Greater.

There were 3 bodies in France (an authentic relic in Toulouse), and one in Spain (Santiago)
9 heads in France and numerous limbs.
1 head in Jerusalem (its still there in the Church of St James the Less)
5 heads in Italy (2 in Venice, 1 in Valencia, 1 in Amalfi, 1 in Artois)
In the Church of the Apostles in Rome are preserved a piece his skull and some of his blood.
There are bones, hands, and arms in Sicily, on the island of Capri, at Pavia, in Bavaria, at Liege and Cologne and a finger in Segovia and in Burgos.
There was an arm preserved in Torcello near Venice from about the 6th Century which was passed down to Henry V.
His widow Matilda took the left hand to England where it became the prime relic at Reading Abbey and wrought many miracles. The abbey was destroyed by Henry V111 in 1538 during the dissolution of the monasteries and the relic disappeared.
(In 1786 workmen digging at Ready Abbey found an old iron chest that contained a mummified hand believed by some to be the relic of Saint James. It now resides in a glass case at St Peter's Church, Marlow.)



Altogether, from the 6th century, there were 4 bodies, 15 heads, 2 places with parts of the skull, numerous limbs and finger bones.

The Santiago cathedral has the head of James the Less (Santiago's uncle) but another skull attributed to James the Less has been known since the Middle Ages in Ancona, Italy, now housed in the Diocesan Museum adjacent to the cathedral church of St Cyriac.

 

[whariwharangi]

Some people really spread themselves too thin.

 

[Tincatinker]

Omniscience and synchronicity are but normalcies of the divine. Though they do seem to put themselves about a bit

 

[jeffnd]

The Santiago cathedral has the head of James the Less (Santiago's uncle)

I've never heard of this connection before.

 

[freescot]

I've never heard of this connection before.

dis-connection?

 

[colinPeter]

Whoever belongs to what: I still find it a very beautiful thing that the Church honours her Saints in such a precious way.
I believe in God the Father.....
the communion of Saints....
life everlasting - Amen

Buen Camino

 

[Stephen Nicholls]

Yes - there are so many reputed 'bits' of bodies all over Europe: and probably no-one will ever know what is authentic and what is false.
But accepting the idea that James might just be in the cathedral at Santiago is all I need to get me on the camino once again: and after I arrive I'll probably once again shed a quiet tear and say a prayer of thanks for my safe arrival.
May God bless St. James wherever he may be .... and bless each of us as we follow our pilgrimage to Santiago ... and through life.

 

[cecelia]

I started researching the relics of St James in 2008 and since then have collected a number of accounts of places that claim to have relics of St James the Greater...................

Altogether, from the 6th century, there were 4 bodies, 15 heads, 2 places with parts of the skull, numerous limbs and finger bones....

Interesting Sylvia and kind of funny. And not to take anything away from that research because this is a different subject....
The body of Santiago is one thing - the spirit of Santiago, however, is wherever we look to find it and seems to be present everywhere on the camino.

 

[pilgrim b]

dis-connection?

You were there ahead of me Freescot!

 

[colinPeter]

Yes - there are so many reputed 'bits' of bodies all over Europe: and probably no-one will ever know what is authentic and what is false.
But accepting the idea that James might just be in the cathedral at Santiago is all I need to get me on the camino once again: and after I arrive I'll probably once again shed a quiet tear and say a prayer of thanks for my safe arrival.
May God bless St. James wherever he may be .... and bless each of us as we follow our pilgrimage to Santiago ... and through life.

Nicely said Stephen,
Two of the most memorable moments of my Camino walks involved visits to the crypt at the cathedral.
In 2009 it was being at an early morning mass in the crypt and then being allowed to go in behind the gate to the visit the reliquary an spend a time praying beside it, that was very special.
Then in 2012 we walked all day in the pouring rain and just walked straight into the crypt soaked and dripping wet (sorry cathedral staff) and knelt down pack & all to pray, (can't take your pack in now), that was also a wonderful moment.
Buen Camino
Colin

 

[sillydoll]

Yep - you can never separate Santiago from the Camino or from Compostela, body parts or no body parts! I'm sure his spirit is in every church named after him (about 400 of them in the UK alone!)

The relic of the skull of St James the Less was in the Chapel of San Fernando

 

[SYates]

There is also a fascinating relation between a relic in Pistoia and the relics in Santiago:

Santiago Cathedral donated a relic, I think it was a jaw bone, of St.James to Pistoia Cathedral some when in the 12th century. As the relics of St.James were re-discovered in Santiago in the 19th century, after being hidden for many years, the comparison of the skull in Santiago and the jaw bone in Pistoia was taken as one of the necessary proofs that the re-discovered relics in Santiago were truly that of St.James. Strictly speaking that means obviously only that the jaw bone and the skull belonged once to the same person ...

@sillydoll Would you be willing to share your list of relics, and where they are currently, with me?

Buen Camino! SY

 

[sillydoll]

This is what I have been able to find since 2008.
I agree with the person on Facebook who wrote, that she didn't walk the Camino in honour of some bones, but in the spirit of Saint James, Apostle of Christ.

The cult of Saint James was widespread across Europe and reports of his relics go back to the 6th century. According to Prof. Leyser, an arm of James the Great was preserved in Torcello near Venice from the 6th Century. It passed through the hands of Bishop Vitalis, and then Germany via Archbishop Adalbert of Hamburg-Bremen, the Emperors Henry 1V and Henry V.
In 1125 Henry V’s widow Matilda brought the left hand of Saint James to England (there is no proof that she did the pilgrimage to Santiago). In the early 1190’s a list of over 240 relics in Reading Abbey in England included ‘the hand of Saint James with flesh and bones and the cloth in which it was wrapped’ and this became the most important relic in the abbey with many miracles attributed to it.
The abbey was destroyed by Henry VIII in 1538 during the dissolution of the monasteries and the relic disappeared. In 1786 workmen digging at Ready Abbey found an old iron chest that contained a mummified hand believed by some to be the relic of Saint James. It now resides in a glass case at St Peter's Church, Marlow.
(Reading Medieval Studies by Brian Kemp, University of Reading. Studies in Medieval History presented to R.H.C. Davis: The Pilgrims Guide, CSJ London.)

In his book “The Cult of Santiago: traditions, myths and pilgrimages” (1927) the Rev. James S. Stone writes about the many relics of St James found in Europe.

“In addition to the body at Compostella, a body in St. Sernin at Toulouse and another in the church at Zibili near Milan are equally authentic. There are two of his heads in Venice, one is in St. George's church, and the other in the monastery of St. Philip and St. James. A head can be found in Valencia, a fourth head at Amalfi, a fifth head at St. Vaast in Artois as well as part of a head at Pistoja. In the Church of the Apostles in Rome are preserved a piece of the Apostle's skull and some of his blood. There are bones, hands, and arms in Sicily, on the island of Capri, at Pavia, in Bavaria, at Liege and Cologne, in Segovia, Burgos and elsewhere.”

According to Armenian tradition, the head of James the Greater is buried in the church of Saint James the Less in Jerusalem and only his body is in Santiago. On the left side of the church, opposite one of the four square piers supporting the vaulted ceiling, is its most important shrine, the small Chapel of St James the Greater. A piece of red marble in front of the altar marks the place where his head is buried, on the reputed site of his beheading.

“In France alone, there were three tombs containing his body, nine heads and numerous limbs. In 1354 the Saint-Sernin basilica in Toulouse was home to the head and the body of St. Jacques le Majeur.” www.saint-jacques.info/anglais/spotlights.htm

“In 1385 the body of St. Jacques was transferred to a luxurious arch-shaped church. It was the most magnificent reliquary of the church after that of St. Saturnin.” http://ultreia.pagesperso-orange.fr/toulouse.htm

Even America has a piece of the true cross and a Sant Iago relic. St James the Less Catholic Church in Wisconsin houses a great collection of relics: “The most precious relics we have are those of the true cross of Our Lord Jesus Christ and of St. James the Less, our Patron. Just a few of the other relics are: ….and St. James the Great, Apostle.”

For a list of relics on the Camino, all I have is this list from 2008: http://amawalker.blogspot.com/2008/12/relics-on-camino.html

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Another relic, this one from Jesus:

According to David Farley, "Depending on what you read, there were eight, twelve, fourteen, or even 18 different holy foreskins in various European towns during the Middle Ages." In addition to the Holy Foreskin of Rome (later Calcata), other claimants included the Cathedral of Le Puy-en-Velay, Santiago de Compostela, the city of Antwerp, Coulombs in the diocese of Chartres, as well as Chartres itself, and churches in Besançon, Metz, Hildesheim, Charroux, Conques, Langres, Fécamp, Stoke-on-Trent[citation needed], Calcata, and two in Auvergne.

 

[sillydoll]

Many religions revere relics and I'm sure there are many false relics in all of them. This website is fairly useful for a list of Saint's relics. (It also lists the head of James the Greater in Jerusalem.) http://www.saintsinrome.com/2013/08/countries-south-east-of-italy.html
When I was in Russia I searched everywhere for an icon, post card, picture of James the Greater but to no avail. They have icon cards of the apostles but not of Saint James as Santiago - no scallop shells, no Matamoros, no legend about him at all. When I asked a guide why that was he said that James was the first Martyr so he did not have time to establish himself as had the other apostles. Perhaps!

 

[Tincatinker]

I'm locking this thread. With some regret, but I feel that a period of quiet reflection might be of more benefit to members than a continuation.

 

[Tincatinker]

This thread is now open for further discussion. Members are asked to confine themselves to comments on religious (and other) relics and to avoid discussion of religious faith. Rule 2 applies.

 

[AlanSykes]

Evelyn Waugh wrote a biographical historical novel "Helena", about Constantine's mother (and Old King Cole's daughter), who discovered the true cross. In Waugh, she is shown its resting place by meeting the wandering jew in a dream. She asks his price for leading her to the cross, and he answers: "A religion starts, no one knows how. Soon you get holy men and holy places springing up everywhere, old shrines change their names, there's apparitions and pilgrimages. There'll be ladies wanting other things besides the cross. ... One wants a few genuine relics in thoroughly respectable hands. Then everyone else will follow. There won't be enough genuine stuff to meet demand. That will be my turn. I shall get paid. I won't take anything from you now, lady. Glad to see you have the cross. It won't cost you a thing." Helena "saw the treasuries of the Church filled with forgeries and impostures. She saw Christians fighting and stealing to get possession of trash. She saw all this, considered it and said 'It's a stiff price'; and then: 'Show me the cross'."

The Santiago cathedral has the head of James the Less (Santiago's uncle)

I didn't know St James the Less' head was in Santiago cathedral. I don't think he was Santiago's uncle, as there is no reference to Zebedee (Santiago's father) or Mary Salome (his mother, possibly the BVM's sister, or 1st cousin) having a brother James in any of the gospels or apochrypha. Matthew 27,56 refers to James the Less' mother as one of the "Three Marys" present at the crucifixion ("the other Mary" in Matthew 28,1, also mentioned in John 19,25 as one of 3 or 4 women present), possibly Mary of Cleopas, a close relation (or relation by marriage) of St Joseph, and just possibly one of the two people who meet Christ on the road to Emmaus (Luke 24,18).

 

[code_monkey_001]

It's a bit of a tangent, but this discussion of relics reminded me of a book I read as a child, Rudyard Kipling's Kim. Part of the story revolves around a Tibetan lama on a pilgrimage to find the "river of the arrow". The lama believed that the Buddha had fired an arrow in an archery contest; that arrow had overshot all of the targets and landed out of sight, but where it struck the ground a stream came forth. Finding this stream, he believed, would lead to perfect enlightenment.

After much searching and wandering, at the end of his strength, the lama finds his stream. It occurred to me as I was reading it that it didn't matter whether that was the actual stream, if the arrow or even the Buddha had existed or were simply confabulations and legends. The lama truly believed that it was; he found what he was looking for and achieved enlightenment - and peace.

 

[colinPeter]

As the story goes, a priest assigned to a poor parish in a poverty stricken mountain community of northern Italy was approached by the town council. The council wanted to improve the lives of the population by bringing in tourist dollars. However, the town had nothing to attract outsiders to the community for a visit. They thought that, perhaps, the good father could obtain the relics of a major saint to place in the church that would bring visitors who would spend their money in local restaurants and hotels.

The priest agreed to give it a try and set off for Rome. After days of visiting church after church he was approached by a rather swarthy looking character who ask the father if he was searching for relics.

The priest responded, "Yes, my son, I am looking for the relics of an important saint to take back to my village but have found nothing. Tonight I must return home empty handed."

"Father, this is your lucky day!" responded the man. "It just so happens that I have recently acquired the head of Saint John the Baptist and for a moderate sum, to cover my expenses, the head is yours."

"But my good man, isn't the head of John the Baptist held at the church of San Silvestro here in Rome?" inquired the priest.

"Ah, yes, Father, but the head in San Silvestro is the head of St. John as an adult. I happen to have the head of St. John as a child."

Still, looking forward to my next pilgrimage to the Tomb of Saint James in SDC

 

[jeffnd]

I didn't know St James the Less' head was in Santiago cathedral. I don't think he was Santiago's uncle, as there is no reference to Zebedee (Santiago's father) or Mary Salome (his mother, possibly the BVM's sister, or 1st cousin) having a brother James in any of the gospels or apochrypha. Matthew 27,56 refers to James the Less' mother as one of the "Three Marys" present at the crucifixion ("the other Mary" in Matthew 28,1, also mentioned in John 19,25 as one of 3 or 4 women present), possibly Mary of Cleopas, a close relation (or relation by marriage) of St Joseph, and just possibly one of the two people who meet Christ on the road to Emmaus (Luke 24,18).

This is what I was wondering too. I've never heard of James the less being called James the greater's uncle. I'm curious as to where sillydoll heard it.

 

[SYates]

Actually there is some indication of the two of them being related, see http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08279b.htm Also bear in mind that Israel wasn't a huge country with a large population at that time, so most people might well have been related somehow. Especially if they came from 'neighbouring places' as, generally speaking, very few people travelled far away from their home towns (exceptions traders and the like).
SY
PS Thanks for re-opening this thread Tincatinker as I really enjoy the thoughtful and respectful discussion in it!

 

[CurlewAction]

I started researching the relics of St James in 2008 and since then have collected a number of accounts of places that claim to have relics of St James the Greater.

There were 3 bodies in France (an authentic relic in Toulouse), and one in Spain (Santiago)
9 heads in France and numerous limbs.
1 head in Jerusalem (its still there in the Church of St James the Less)
5 heads in Italy (2 in Venice, 1 in Valencia, 1 in Amalfi, 1 in Artois)
In the Church of the Apostles in Rome are preserved a piece his skull and some of his blood.
There are bones, hands, and arms in Sicily, on the island of Capri, at Pavia, in Bavaria, at Liege and Cologne and a finger in Segovia and in Burgos.
There was an arm preserved in Torcello near Venice from about the 6th Century which was passed down to Henry V.
His widow Matilda took the left hand to England where it became the prime relic at Reading Abbey and wrought many miracles. The abbey was destroyed by Henry V111 in 1538 during the dissolution of the monasteries and the relic disappeared.
(In 1786 workmen digging at Ready Abbey found an old iron chest that contained a mummified hand believed by some to be the relic of Saint James. It now resides in a glass case at St Peter's Church, Marlow.)

View attachment 15651

Altogether, from the 6th century, there were 4 bodies, 15 heads, 2 places with parts of the skull, numerous limbs and finger bones.

The Santiago cathedral has the head of James the Less (Santiago's uncle) but another skull attributed to James the Less has been known since the Middle Ages in Ancona, Italy, now housed in the Diocesan Museum adjacent to the cathedral church of St Cyriac.

Hi Sillydoll, I am writing a book about the Camino and would love to use this post above, would that be ok? My email is [removed by moderator; please use private Conversation instead of posting personal emails]. Thank you!