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The queues in Santiago

Kathar1na said:
Makes sense to me.
Click to expand...
Me too.
Now the question becomes how to make it work for everybody? At the moment the burden of the system's inefficiency been shifted onto pilgrims.

The PO may not have this as a priority, and if so it's up to us to graciously go with the flow - and help each other. So if you find yourself there, and you see someone looking confused or stressed, ask if they need an explanation of how the system works. We don't have to be volunteers to help each other out. Once we get to Santiago, it's easy to forget that, and the easy comraderie of being fellow pilgrims.
 
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Indeed.

One of the strengths of this Forum has been the importance of sharing. Those in SdC who understand the currently inefficient digital system should certainly offer/provide advice to whomever might need it.
 
I am running out of energy to deal with all these complications. My latest are continuing screw ups with managing a credit card whose app and online program function very poorly. The message which I get at the end of every screw-up is to call the number on the back of the card. I tried that last night, and finally reached a message telling me that the anticipated wait time was more than four hours. This credit card does not work out of one's home country, and the situation has just been made worse by adding an additional layer of security which is difficult to use out of the home country. For me, it is equally difficult to understand and remember. I am still hopeful, not of the potential function of this card, but because I got a second card after the app for this card quit functioning on previous trips. We have become so reliant on these programs. I am reminded of a story called, "The Machine Stops" which I read many years ago. The computers that ran the world stopped. Those who could, moved out of their underground warrens and began to live in the external physical world again. I think that various social forces and the pandemic have pushed us into this kind of world and we no longer feel we have options. Could I really try to walk a camino using cash and without making reservations along the way? If I can complete the multiple required documents and tests to get myself on the plane on Thursday, I shall consider this to be a successful start to my pilgrimage. I have no idea whether I shall have the energy, or even the desire, to complete the procedures at the Pilgrim Office. And then, eventually I must try to get myself home again. I am mentally exhausted. This does not feel like a pilgrimage.
 
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@Albertagirl, I am so sorry to hear of your new frustrations. I would very probably be having some similar difficulties myself if I were going now. Thankfully I have a techy OH whom I occasionally rely on with questions and help.
All the best to you and I hope you arrive safely in Spain and your spirits lifted. I am waiting until next year to go and hope things become a bit simpler by then, but who knows.
 
Albertagirl,
Sorry to read of your difficulties. Of course you can use cash to pay but a credit card might be necessary to secure a reservation. PM me if you would like my "secret" method for hiding cash.

On a happier note may your next months be good ones both as a pilgrim and hospitalera.

Carpe diem and Buen camino!
 
I found the answer to my question. The earlier screenshots in this thread really show the online form where pilgrims can enter their personal data for the Compostela.

They need to knock their website into better shape! They have a blog on the Oficina del Peregrino's website but the link to it must have gotten lost during a rearrangement as it is nowhere to be seen on the Welcome page. With so many potential volunteers available, especially younger ones with state-of-the-art experience in web design who could even do such work remotely, I don't understand why they don't make use of them.

Here is the link to the blog entry:
(Online system for the registration of pilgrim data)​

It ends with: Se realiza a través de la propia página web de la Oficina del Peregrino (This can be done through the Pilgrim's Office website). Click on the link and you can see for yourself how easy or how hard it is to complete the form. You have a choice of 8 languages. But don't click on the equivalent of the Send button yet unless you are already in Santiago!!!

BTW, that was 17 July 2020, not 17 July 2021.
 
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Okay, that last line makes me wonder: Does clicking the 'Send' (or 'Alta individual' or 'Create a group') button get you a QR-code and number just like the QR-code and number you get at the Pilgrim's office to line up for a Compostela? If not, why would you have to be in Santiago already to send in your form?
 
Your mental exhaustion is understandable @Albertagirl - it is exhausting.
I hope getting shoes on the ground brings your energy levels back.
May you have safe and easy travel and a buen camino!

People keep assuring us these systems are better, but frankly cash in hand and waiting in a queue are much easier - they do not require being on hold for four hours to navigate how to make one's card function, or reading a multi-page instruction manual. I say this as one who is at home with tech, but dislikes its all-pervasive reach and how we are all bullied into adopting it whether we want to or not.
 
This would be best answered by a pilgrim who did it for themselves or by a volunteer who works or worked with it.

As far as I can make out, it doesn't give you the ticket number/QR code for monitoring the waiting line; you need to get this separately. When you have entered your personal details into the form and have press the finishing button, the system emails or texts you a code (not in QR form) that you communicate to the volunteer who issues your Compostela. Maybe it doesn't do more than confirm that you did your duty and your data (name, chosen camino, motive etc etc) have been collected. But this goes beyond my ability of remote clairvoyance.
 
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Kathar1na said:
This would be best answered by a pilgrim who did it for themselves or by a volunteer who works or worked with it.
Click to expand...
@t2andreo will be volunteering in the Pilgrim's Office in a few short days, adding to the many times he has volunteered in the past. He will weigh in on the situation and hopefully be able to answer most of the questions. I do remember him saying something to the effect that "the wheels turn slowly" in that place.
 
It's understandable that the pilgrim office wants to solve the problems that come with high pilgrim numbers. It's of course easier for the volunteers and better for pandemic reasons if you don't have hundreds of people in one spot. Online registration seems like a quick fix for that problem.

But...

First of all, it's not possible to do for everyone. Some people don't know how to work with this digital stuff, some don't even have a smart phone. One good thing about the Camino is (was) that it's so simple. Walk, eat, sleep, repeat, plus some cash in your pocket and you're good to go. Making things more complicated excludes certain people, which can only be a loss to the Camino.

Also, if you do it all online, the credencial, the "stamps", the registration (and maybe even the compostela one day!), it's just a small step to get rid of the pilgrim office in its current form alltogether. If your credential and your "stamps" are digital, then you can just scan your last "stamp" at the cathedral from a QR-code at the cathedral, pay for your Compostela online with your credit card or paypal, and it will then be sent to your home directly by mail or as a pdf... no need for a pilgrim office, then.

No more of the happy atmosphere with all the pilgrims excited to get their compostela, meeting up with long lost pilgrim friends while waiting in line, no smile from the friendly volunteers...? Who needs all this human interaction, anyway... apparently it's overrated, I hear...

And while we're at it, if everyone stays in online pre-booked single rooms, as is recommended these days, albergues won't be needed anymore, also, of course! Far too uncomfortable anyway. Just imagine, people used to stand in lines, waiting to get a bunk bed in one of these caves, with all those people!? And you had to pay in cash!? Unimaginable! And who needs yellow arrows and friendly locals to show the way when everyone has a phone with gps!? Finally we can get rid of all those ugly waymarkers that destroy the beautiful villages and landscapes! Hurray!

Now that would be something, right? Just watch your phone, it will have all the answers the Camino used to have

(not to be taken too seriously but I do see a certain trend there...).

On a more serious note, I hope the pilgrim office will improve the current system. I had a look at the online registration in my native language, and it didn't make any sense at all, mixed with spanish and english also. I can see why people get frustrated dealing with that.
 
Brave new world... Or not...

Having spent all my working years as a systems designer/programmer/analyst, I am glad I am retired and don't have to do more damage to humanity.
 
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alexwalker said:
Brave new world... Or not...

Having spent all my working years as a systems designer/programmer/analyst, I am glad I am retired and don't have to do more damage to humanity.
Click to expand...
We human beings can seldom (never?) resist the inspiration, or temptation, to do things faster and better. We cannot anticipate all of the possible consequences of doing so. But I am quite certain that information technology is one of the tools that made it possible to speed up the production of new vaccines from the prior customary twelve years to about as many months. The value of our tools lies in how we use them, and human beings are very good at using all that we can get our hands on in times of emergency. How these tools change our everyday lives can be challenging in the long run, and some of us may be left behind. But there are a few special people like yourself who have the skills to move things along, or just to keep them running, whether in a profession or in a volunteer position in the Pilgrim Office. Put your snowshoes on. We need you there now. Hopefully, to sort out some of the muddle created by people who don't have your skills.
 
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You are a wise woman. Your observations are correct.

Technology does not care enough about humans; mostly about economy. Ref. my earlier link to

The inmates are running the asylum

In the computer industry we have a saying to the customer: Fast, good, cheap? Pick two.

Yes, I am currently contemplating going to Spain on next Friday.
 
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trecile said:
The ticket system is really not much different than I'm sure most here have experienced in a business at home most of your life.
Click to expand...
Not where I come from .

Some places are trying to introduce it, but not very well.

At a government department recently I was given a piece of paper that had a number on it, very badly scrawled, so I wasn’t really sure what it said.

Meanwhile, on the intercom, an American-taped voice told Number xx to go to Counter xx.

I am English-speaking and I couldn’t quite catch what the taped voice had said. Nobody got up.

In a country of eleven official languages, 90% of whom do not have English as their first language (let alone with an American accent), the whole set-up was a joke.

Anyway, after a couple of hours, I finally got to Counter xx . . .
 
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jsalt said:
Not where I come from .
Click to expand...
Really? That's interesting. The fabric store that I usually go to has had a "take a ticket" system to have your fabric cut for as long as I can remember. There is no automated voice though. An employee just shouts out the number, and advances the number on the display.
This type of system is also common at places like the Department of Motor Vehicles.
 
trecile said:
The fabric store that I usually go to has had a "take a ticket" system to have your fabric cut for as long as I can remember. There is no automated voice though. An employee just shouts out the number, and advances the number on the display.
Click to expand...
Same here: "Take a ticket" system at the butcher's or at the meat counter in a supermarket; buying a train ticket at a major train station - and nearly as long as I can remember.
 
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trecile said:
Really? That's interesting. The fabric store that I usually go to has had a "take a ticket" system to have your fabric cut for as long as I can remember.
Click to expand...
The first time I encountered this system was a couple of years ago in a bank in Spain.

A staff member saw me trying to work out what to do (I had a backpack on, in a pilgrim town), and he took me over to the ticket machine (hidden in a corner to the right of the entrance door), got me a ticket, and pointed to a TV, somewhere else in the room, and at my number.

However, I still find it really weird, when overseas, going into a shop or office, looking for the queue, not finding one, just people standing around, and then thinking, oh, hang on, maybe there is a ticket machine somewhere . . .
 
I am yet to encounter such a machine in Aotearoa New Zealand, but they probably do exist here. In general we are more personal and flexible.

My 96 year old uncle is infamous for taking advantage of this flexibility. To date he doesn't need a walking aid but whenever he goes shopping he always takes a walking stick with him and purposely leans heavily on it when in a queue, he is almost invariably quickly moved to the head of the queue . He also makes use of a similar charade to ensure that he is one of the first to board any aircraft that he travels on.
 
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Makes sense to me. In fact, I am working on a "boarding an aircraft with my walking stick" pantomime myself.
 
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Gosh ... this topic has certainly attracted a lot of interest. I haven't sought a Compostela since 2014 - not for any particular reason - I just didn't feel the need or maybe I was sitting in the sun - or sheltering from the rain - enjoying tapas and vino tinto! But I know that I was very keen to receive the Compostela the first time around, and the second.

I say if you have the time, inclination and patience to go through whatever the system is - and maybe this thread will lead to improvements - then go for it. If you don't, not having the paperwork will not lessen the value of your Camino, whether you've walked 100 kms from Sarria or 1500 from Le Puy ... or further!

As many others have observed ... If ever there was an example of the journey being its own reward - the Camino is it.
 
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The only ticket system I've met is in the Smales Farm cafe "Ripe" - which is so busy and loud you cant hear the staff yelling out the numbers anyway.
 
The take-a-ticket system is very common and widespread - the Ikea returns department, medical labs, motor vehicle licensing, passport renewals. It is a simple and effective way to eliminate the strife of a queue and even allow people to sit down in a waiting area. Usually, nowadays, there is a very obvious light board that flashes the numbers, and it is very easy to understand without any language or audio issues.
 
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The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
Ah, I bit of information I had not seen before but it was posted in another thread just now. Pilgrims can fill in the digital form either on their smartphones or on one of the self-service kiosks they will receive a form on paper to fill in at the Pilgrims Office.

So we don't need to worry about those without smartphones or reluctant to use their smartphones.
 
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Okay folks, I have worked only three shifts / days so far. But my mind is soaking up observations and information.

I have taken few photos to illustrate points. I am talking to long-time and short term staff, as well as with pilgrims who will take a minute to share their experiences and discuss the process.

Each day I learn more and more. I DO NOT want to write anything before I cross check and “murder board” what think against what I saw.

My immediate assessment, based on partial knowledge, is that the current system does need work. BUT, until those changes are made, I hope to offer a shorter series of do’s and don’ts to help pilgrims navigate the process.

To do this I want to explain how and why we got where we are, as well as what is driving ongoing process engineering. Don’t hold your breath for radical change.

I want to give this subject the serious treatment it deserves. I also want to take more time to learn more. I will only get one chance to state this correctly - so I need to get it right.

Criticism is part of the territory and I embrace constructive and intelligent correction. But when I am right, I will stand by my statements.

Because of these constraints and concerns, I am proposing to write a full assessment after I return home on 23 September. Plus, I cannot write a white paper like this on an iPhone keyboard.

As it is, I plan to write this in multiple parts. For example:

1. What is the current process for managing the queue?
2. How did we get to this point?
3. What might be done?
4. What is likely to be done.

In the meantime, here are three quick takeaways you can use NOW:

1. DO NOT download or use the “Official Cathedral Credencial” for your mobile device. There are two reasons; A. The roll out was spotty and there is no guarantee that you can collect electronic QR codes. CONTINUE TO USE THE TRADITIONAL PAPER CREDENCIAL., and B. In fact, the workstations at the pilgrim office do not have the capability to read the data.

2. DO go to the pilgrim office website and preregister at any time before you arrive in Santiago. All you are doing is providing the same information that you have been providing for years on the paper “Estadillo form.” Except, you are providing your data electronically

When you send this information, you will receive an SMS telling you your information is received. You will then receive an e-Mail with a QR code. There is an alphanumeric code in plain language just above the QR code that reads (for example): “AG368X2 has correctly submitted their information”

3. Showing this QR code gets you in the front door, AND allows a security or staff person to give you a separate, numbered QR ticket. THIS second ticket defines your wait for a Compostela.

Using your smartphone camera to scan the second QR code, with your queue number, will take you to the “Now Serving” Ticket Number 0546 function on the Cathedral server. The gap between your queue number and what server now shows how long you have to wait. If you have a 200 or more variance, you are likely safe to leave the pilgrim office to have a meal, check into your accommodations, etc. Once you get to less than 100, work your way back to the office.

Being able to read the alphanumeric code on the first QR code by eye is also how the staff person at the counter accesses your data. The actual reason for doing this is that it eliminated a paper form and many BIC Crystal pens that were being handled by too many people - leading to a COVID infection vector.

Yes, it does coincidentally save time behind the counter. But COVID control was the primary reason behind this change.

So, stay tuned and don’t panic. I will explain more in due time.

Hope this helps, until I can get out more.

Tom
 
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@t2andreo, another question for our man on site, so to speak.

I read elsewhere: "If you are among the first 200 to get a Compostela on that day, ask for a ticket to the Pilgrims Mass at noon. They only let so many people in, and if you have a ticket you get in ahead of those who do not have one."

Is that correct?
 
Anyone with a pass issued by the Pilgrim Office can go to the front of the line to enter the Cathedral for Mass. Passes are color coded, are ONLY issued “day of” and CANNOT we requested or held in advance.

Generally, pilgrims can ask for a pass for one of the next Pilgrims Masses on that day only. They have a limited number (@30 I think) and they go fast.

The time to request a Mass pass is when you are getting your Compostela. You cannot go back after the fact.

Hope this helps.

Tom
 
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Well done @t2andreo ....I have read your replies with interest.
Full of useful information and done so with humility and clarity. Obviously the right man in the right place at the right time.
No need to "hope it helps"....it does.
 
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Thank you, @t2andreo, for this useful bit of information for pilgrims arriving in Santiago now while access to the pilgrims mass is restricted because of the pandemic.

I am curious about something else but it's just curiosity. Please don't go out of your way if you don't happen to know. You said in another post that a group leader can input the data for all the group at home, before leaving for Camino. I guess an individual pilgrim could also do this, the online form is freely available on the Pilgrims Office's website for anyone to fill in.

If someone would do this and would receive the email with the alphanumeric code and would then not go to the Pilgrims Office in the end to claim a Compostela, for whatever reason, I guess the system would eventually just delete the data entered into the online form after a while or simply ignore it? IOW, it would not cause any problems?
 

That information is only confirmed into the database and added to the statistics by the volunteer after the compostela is issued.
 
The short answer is “yes.” An individual can enter data in advance.

I do not know how far in advance. I also do not know how long the data is maintained.

But I do know they comply with the EU privacy requirements. My presumption is that advance-entered, “unclaimed data” is only kept as long as it is needed.

My volunteer stint had to be cut short by a family emergency at home. I arrived home a week early, late last night.

Hope this helps,

Tom
 
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Best wishes to you Tom. I hope all is well at home.
Thank you for your input into this thread. It has been greatly appreciated.
 
t2andreo said:
My volunteer stint had to be cut short by a family emergency at home. I arrived home a week early, late last night.
Click to expand...
I am sorry to read this. You had been very much looking forward to your stay in Santiago. I hope all goes well for you and your family.

Thank you for the additional information.
 
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t2andreo said:
My volunteer stint had to be cut short by a family emergency at home. I arrived home a week early, late last night.

Hope this helps,

Tom
Click to expand...
I believe we met briefly in Santiago a few days ago. I'm sorry your trip and stint had to be cut short and I hope things work out ok with your family..
 
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Things are fine now that I am home. I will take my wife to one of her doctors in about an hour to begin to 'course correction' efforts. She takes so many medications. This time, during a period of changing medications and dosages, several medications conflicted and produced dangerous physical symptoms. But, I managed to get home very fast.

Thank you for you concern. I am reminded of the old adage that says: "Man plans - God laughs."

Ultreia!

Tom
 
Tom, I was surprised and disappointed for you having to end your time in Spain much earlier than expected. However, it is good to hear that your emergency at home is now under control.
 
Literally just picked up my compostela and these instructions were spot on!

I would have been very confused if I had just walked up and tried to work it out myself.

Thank you very much for posting this.
 
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t2andreo said:
Okay folks, I have worked only three shifts / days so far. But my mind is soaking up observations and information.
Click to expand...

@t2andreo, pleased to read the reason for cutting short in Compostela is now under control.

If I had been under the time constraints as @Mel C, I suspect know I would have the same reactions.

And I hope any suggestions you reflect to the Pilgrims Office in some way include the comments made by @Mel C.

Now we know there are two stages which can be separated by days (or weeks or months or, in my case 18 months) it might be helpful if a brief note was given out at the Saint-Jean pilgrims office (and other major points along the way and included in Brierly and other publications.

Based on what I have read above, my first preliminary attempt would say something like this:

Documents on arrival at Compostela

This is in two separate stages:
1) register your intentions at www.xxx.yyy
Register your details any time before arrival or at the Pilgrims Office (PO)​
When done you will get a code and a QuickResponse form online​
Go on your way​
​
2) on arrival at the Pilgrims Office (PO)
Show the on line QR form given at registration​
You will receive a new QR form showing your place in the queue​
Download the app advised by the PO and enter the required details​
This app will show how many are ahead of you in the documents queue​
If the queue is long go for refreshments​
Regularly refresh the app display​
Return to the queue when you judge it will be a short wait​
​
When you have the desired documents, celebrate (again)

It matters not whether I have read properly or understood sufficiently, others can correct. It is the medium that is the message.

My best wishes to you and to @Mel C for moving this matter forward

Edit to correct spelling of "Now" in the sentence "Now we know ... "
 
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