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The queues in Santiago

I understand it. Me too. When we left for a holiday in Crete in July this year, we had electronic EU CovID passports on our phones, but paper versions as backup.

This is in line with the thread topic: Electronic Compostela queue system. Older people may need more help/assistance. I would manage it. If not, I have names to talk to in the Office...

But then again, it is many years since I waited for a Compostela: My first was framed; the rest (2-3) are still in storage in their boxes...
 
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Mel C said:
There was a sign that referred to scanning the code but I had no idea that this involved filling in a website,
Click to expand...
Thanks for filling in the gaps in the original story. It does sound like the Pilgrim's Office needs to do a better job of letting pilgrims know what is involved with the ticket system. Unless things have changed in the last two years, you shouldn't have to fill in anything on a website. As I recall the reason for scanning the code was so that you could monitor where you were in the queue, and when you should return to the office to get your Compostela.

This website has a good description of the process:

The Pilgrim's Office Santiago - How to Get Your Camino Compostela

Find out how to get your Compostela certificate in the pilgrim's office Santiago and all the requirements to qualify for one.
followthecamino.com
 
Camino Way markers in Bronze
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
Thank you for the link. I can do that. Maybe the Office does not advertize/inform clearly enough? Since @Mel C experienced problems/couldn't figure it out? Maybe @Mel C is as fossil as me? (no offense whatsoever intended: I am a fossil).
 
trecile said:
Unless things have changed in the last two years, you shouldn't have to fill in anything on a website
Click to expand...

@trecile, I agree with you that the Pilgrim's Office could do a much better job of letting pilgrims know how to minimise waiting times for getting their Compostela. From what I understand, there are now two kinds of codes involved that the digitised pilgrim can scan.

One is the code printed on your paper ticket with your number in the waiting queue; scan it with your internet-connected mobile phone and it takes you to a webpage with a countdown for your ticket number.

The other code is, I believe, on display near or in the Pilgrims Office but also in a few albergues close to Santiago. Scan it with your internet-connected mobile phone and it takes you to a webpage where you can enter your name, camino, starting point, motive etc into a questionnaire - a digital version of the paper form that all pilgrims used to fill in at the Pilgrims Office and that is the source for their monthly and yearly statistics.

I recall that one or two posters described this procedure in earlier posts a few weeks ago.

People without mobile phones or who are reluctant to use them need to watch the screens until their number appears and, I guess, need to enter their details into the questionnaire on paper (and office staff then enter the data into their database later).
 
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Not exactly the KISS principle (Keep It Simple, Stupid).

Reminds me of a book written long time ago, about Computer user interface design, and how it is normally written/designed by savvy programmers, not defined by the target adudience (AKA "users"). The title?

"The Inmates Are Running The Asylum"...

Preface:

"Imagine, at a terrifyingly aggressive rate, everything you regularly use is being equipped with computer technology. Think about your phone, cameras, cars - everything - being automated and programmed by people who in their rush to accept the many benefits of the silicon chip, have abdicated their responsibility to make these products easy to use. The Inmates are Running the Asylum argues that, despite appearances, business executives are simply not the ones in control of the high-tech industry. They have inadvertently put programmers and engineers in charge, leading to products and processes that waste money, squander customer loyalty, and erode competitive advantage. Business executives have let the inmates run the asylum! In his book The Inmates Are Running the Asylum Alan Cooper calls for revolution - we need technology to work in the same way average people think - we need to restore the sanity. He offers a provocative, insightful and entertaining explanation of how talented people continuously design bad software-based products. More importantly, he uses his own work with companies big and small to show how to harness those talents to create products that will both thrill their users and grow the bottom line."
 
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Before I found the Follow the Camino site detailing the process I first checked the Pilgrim's Office site, and there were no such instructions there.

Pilgrim’s reception office, Santiago de Compostela

Pilgrim’s reception office of Santiago de Compostela. Cathedral of Santiago: services, opening hours, where we are, ...
oficinadelperegrino.com

At the top of the page there is a "register" button. When you hover over it you can choose "single" or "group." I tried it out by choosing single, and then it took me to a page to select my language. After a data privacy page the next page says "create a group," which seems confusing at best. However, it looks like an individual can fill their information in.
 
Also, let's not forget that not everyone arriving in Santiago and wanting a Compostela is part of this forum, nor necessarily speaks Spanish.
I can picture myself being a bit befuddled had I not realized the new way of doing things that has been implemented, thankfully I've seen posts about it on the forum beforehand...I am "60 something".
 
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I need to retire from my retirement and go to Santiago to fix this mess...

@Mel C has obviously pointed out a problem, atleast for firsttimers/not members of this Fourm...
 
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trecile said:
Before I found the Follow the Camino site detailing the process I first checked the Pilgrim's Office site, and there were no such instructions there.
Click to expand...
Yes, there is nothing in the way of useable information on the website of the Pilgrims Office. I cannot find the recent posts that I mentioned but I found a post from October 2020 where a forum member describes the process of filling in the digital questionnaire. So it is not exactly new, it's been around for nearly a year now.

He starts by saying: "Yes that QR code business is a bit of a palaver but it can done - even by me. The point to remember is that doing the form on your phone only tells the pilgrim office the overall numbers, for instance that do it for religious reasons only, where you come from, by foot or by bike, nationality etc. When you fill it in you then, either a few minutes later or several minutes later, receive a text message or email saying your details have been collected." "It's a pretty simple system with, I suspect, some high-powered computer wizardry behind it. It works well but it's a lot easier if you are helped by someone who has done it before."

The whole post is here.
 
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...and ship it to Santiago for storage. You pick it up once in Santiago. Service offered by Casa Ivar (we use DHL for transportation).
I am beginning to suspect that whatever the new system was when I entered the Pilgrim Office in November of 2019 it was just as well for me that I walked in when the place was almost empty and took a place at the end of a very short line (if there were one at all). I was out in a few minutes, none the wiser. Knowing me, I would normally have struggled to follow the system, eventually giving up and going in without having successfully signed in anyway. And I would have been in a really grim mood.
 
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No as far as I am aware, it hasn’t changed.
 
Albertagirl said:
Better start soon then, so you can get there before the snow is too deep to walk.
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I have started packing, and am prepared. My backpack is also available with additional attached side pockets, if you want to go heavy, wild-camping:
 

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Oh I really feel for you,that was stressful indeed.
 
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I’m still picturing me explaining this to my irritated sister while reassuring her it will work out
 
Here is one of the posts I remember. It's from 15 July 2021:

I am here in Santiago.​
Getting your compostella is straight forward, go to the office and scan the QR code. Complete the form, show it to the guy at the door and he gives you a number and tells you to wait in the garden. Wait until your batch of numbers is called and line up for your turn to enter the issuing room. Only problem was none of us knew Spanish numbers after ten! but pilgrims are a helpful bunch and we were nudged when it was our turn.​
​
The full post is here. I guess we don't hear much about this because actually many people don't have an issue with it. I used to shy away from scanning any QR code and for a long time I didn't even have a scanning app on my mobile phone but QR codes are nearly everywhere nowadays and you don't even need an app. On the iPhone you simply open your photo app and hold it over the QR code. If you can take a photo with your mobile phone you can scan a QR code with your mobile phone.
 
Ok I can’t find the thread @alexwalker referenced, and perhaps I’m concerned over nothing, and all the walkers of a certain age, returning to the Camino now that they’re vaccinated and liberated, are doing just fine with scanning QR codes and filling out info online. Perhaps some of you volunteer at the office and could say it’s fine so I stop worrying about how this could be a nightmare for some pilgrims. If I were Queen Sparrow (or Pope Sparrow I) I’d have a separate system for those over (70?) who don’t want to deal with the main system, or a help desk for pilgrims who can’t deal with the automated process. Even instacart has finally set up a special help number for the older customers who struggled with their app.

edit: maybe it’s from spending the last 18 months helping so many just a decade or so older who’ve been forced to embrace more technology than they want. Owning a smartphone doesn’t always mean comfy using an app, and there’s hesitancy to ask for help bc there’s an assumption the question will seem foolish.
 
Camino Way markers in Bronze
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
My phone just died when I arrived, it refused to scan anything!
The guy at the door came to help me, saw the problem and I just had to fill in a form (manually, wow, that was a first! )
Honestly, there was no problem. Fear not
It’s all ok in the end
 
Smallest_Sparrow said:
I’d have a separate system for those over (70?) who don’t want to deal with the main system
Click to expand...
I'm over but I can tell you for certain, based on personal experience, that it's not an age issue .

The thread that I mentioned earlier, from last year, starts with a post by Ivar. He mentions a visit from a pilgrim who did not have a mobile phone. So they gave him the paper form to fill out and Ivar posted a photo of it. Of course the paper forms will stay. Not everyone has to go digital. It's enough when lots of pilgrims make use of the digital options because it saves the staff at the office work. That's a good thing, even more so as the Dean said in a recent interview that there are no plans to increase the staff at the Pilgrims Office.
 
It's not all that complicated. You are given a ticket with a number, for example #453. There is an electronic board that shows which number is currently being served, for example #25. You can hang out at the Pilgrim's Office or go get a coffee until it's your turn. You don't have to do anything with the QR code, but you do need to have a general idea of how long it will take the 428 pilgrims ahead of you to get their Compostelas. That's where scanning the code and being able to check your progress in the queue is helpful.

No one has to stand in line as we did pre ticket system, except those who queue up at the office before it opens.
 
Let us pick up your suitcase once you arrive in Europe....
...and ship it to Santiago for storage. You pick it up once in Santiago. Service offered by Casa Ivar (we use DHL for transportation).
Obviously neither of us think it’s complicated. I can promise you there are some who think that is. How many, who knows. But I hate to think of them struggling with a system more than they need to
 
Smallest_Sparrow said:
bviously neither of us think it’s complicated. I can promise you there are some who think that is. How many, who knows. But I hate to think of them struggling with a system more than they need to
Click to expand...
Surely that's what the volunteers are there for? To help those who need some assistance? To show them where the paper forms are?

There were reports of huge queues in earlier years. Really huge queues. And you had little choice other than waiting your turn for hours during high season. How many people who have experienced that do still think that it was a better system when everything was analog? Plus, they didn't have as many pilgrims this year as originally estimated. But these huge numbers will be back ...
 
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I don’t know if they’re being help by volunteers…it sounds like not always. I think large lines will always be a possibility. Wait until Sr Bong malfunctions. I walked in 2012, picked up my compostella in June and there was no line. I like automation and would opt for as much as possible for me —that doesn’t mean I think one size fits all and would hate to see what I think is easy be forced on others who disagree. Otherwise we’d all walk double stages. It sounds like the volunteers are manning the desks inside, while the pilgrims are dealing with automation elsewhere. I could be wrong, just basing this on what I’ve read here. The fact that the overall number of pilgrims who may struggle with automation is small doesn’t mean they don’t matter. I’m hoping the system is clear enough for them that their last official act as pilgrims doesn’t leave a bitter taste.
 
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I can attest to that, as a former volunteer. up to 2.500 per day. Crowd management was a fulltime job. If only 50% would use a digital solution, it would be just half the job.

But there is a human aspect as well: Personal contact between pilgrims and us volunteers,welcoming them. Sometimes it was very rewarding. And in the second floor, some countries have their own rooms for talks, reflections, and comfort, A good thing.

Some pilgrims arrive with sorrow and problems: They need to talk. It is sometimes a bit of a phycologial detox for them. Not everybody is cheering their arrivals. Some cry, and need attention. Many feelings.
 
I’m long reconciled to being in a minority but, being english, I’m rather disappointed that there isn’t a queue any more. You know where you are with a queue.

If this laissez-faire attitude to issuing compostellas carries on, I’ll be tempted to lower my newspaper and look disapprovingly at someone.

(Many years ago in Kerala, India, my wife and I were in a crowd (comparable to that in the film ‘Ghandi’) awaiting the arrival of a 50-seat ferry which was expected to take 200 people comfortably. As soon as it touched the jetty Mrs Henrythedog, being indomitable and sharp-elbowed, was straight through an open window and seated. I attempted to follow, but being of a prosperous build, and carrying the bags, only my front half could truly be said to be onboard. My abiding memory was looking to the shore through the small gap under my legs to see that everyone else had formed themselves into an orderly queue and were looking at my backside as though it belonged to a rude idiot. As indeed, it probably did.)

Join the queue folks, it’s the right thing to do.
 
Hi Mel C,
you need not be sorry for posting your thread as it’s created some lively discussions. Also it does sound like some improvements could be made, and now might be Even good things can always be made better and “it’s an ill wind that blows no good”
Your frustration was indeed warranted but it sounded like you coped pretty well
I probably would have had a heart attack in the circumstances, and I certainly had no idea about all the form filling/gadget technology so will probably give the next visit to that office a miss!
best wishes for your next Camino
 
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Peter Fransiscus said:
The gist of the story is that you have to plan not only the journey to… but also the time after you arrive. Next time just stay for a few days and explore the city further. It's so worth it.
Click to expand...
Both ends of my time limit were out of my hands, one the one side was Ireland's rules as to when I flew out (Ireland has one of the most draconian covid restrictions in europe in my opinion), on the other, my return to work. I walked the 800km in 28 days. I certainly wanted to get there quicker but that was the most my feet could handle. It sounds like I didn't simply plan for a few extra days at the end but it was my hope and I pushed myself as much as I was able but that was the best I could do. I doubt I will return to Santiago again but I will probably do other stretches of the camino from further out such as in France.
 


because one simply won’t do. Please note, they’re in a queue
 
The tension was unbearable. Luckily, things like that are rare.
 
Camino Way markers in Bronze
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
The ticket system is really not much different than I'm sure most here have experienced in a business at home most of your life.

You take a ticket with a number from a machine. There is a display showing the number currently being served. You can sit and wait at the office for your turn.(no standing required) Or, you can scan the QR code on your ticket and it will link you to a website which shows which number is currently being served, which you can do at one of the many cafes or bars in Santiago while you enjoy a cup of coffee or a beer.

I'm sure that if you have managed to get yourself to Spain and walk at least 100 km to Santiago you can figure it out. It's really about as simple as this.
 
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My visit to Santiago will be shorter than ever this November, as I have decided to donate two weeks of my pilgrimage time to serve as a hospitalera. I don't know how much I shall make getting a compostela my priority when I arrive in Santiago. I am at present feeling an undercurrent of contempt in some posts for the "over seventies" who cannot handle the mysteries of this process. If there are clear and detailed instructions, in English, preferably, I may try to at least get a number and see if I can figure out how the process works. But I have four compostelas lined up on my desk in front of me right now.
I expect that I shall want to check in at San Martin Pinario, leave my gear, and go to pray at the Cathedral. There are likely to be people along my route who ask me to carry their prayers to Santiago, and this is a priority for me, not just as something that I can fit in when I am waiting for my turn to get a compostela. Hopefully, I shall learn during my pilgrimage what feels right for me to do in my limited time in Santiago. I shall try to keep open to whatever I am called to.
 
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@t2andreo, who volunteers at the Pilgrims Office wrote a more complete explanation than mine about the process two years ago
 
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alexwalker said:
As soon as I am on the road again, I will study the Compostela process. My impression was that it was working, but it clearly needs a closer study to confirm it. Maybe old people struggle more with the new technology?
Click to expand...
I am actually comfortable with technology. The problem is people get used to a system and stop seeing its failings as soon as they are used to. Newbies immediately detect what's wrong with a process. But rarely they are listened to so ways of improving the system don't feed back into improving it. I noticed loads wrong with the process, and it couldn't be better designed to create bottlenecks. If there is anyone here who is a volunteer/adviser that could feedback some thoughts on it to better improve, here is what I see as its flaws.

1) The place to get a ticket is not at the entrance but way down in the basement.
Problem: It is non-intuitive and leads to unnecessary confusion. People queue outside for ages on the street, only to discover this is not a real queue and that they ought to go downstairs for a paper ticket?
2) a) A simpler system - you offer a simple html address on the wall, eg camino.com as an alternative way with an instruction to fill in your details with the code there for those who prefer not to type. (Presuming these details are actually being used in the system, if it is only used to put pilgrims in order why even bother with that?) But then you get an image on your phone with your queue number, no paper trail, no need to go to the basement. The webpage can go into all the guidebooks so people hear about it.
b) this is probably the most important advice: it has the option to choose what hour slot you'd like to queue for in the day and when each block gets filled some will grey out, same picking a seat on a flight. Why? You spread the queue numbers over the day to avoid bottlenecks. People then can pick times with lower numbers and ideally queues will remain small over much of the day, as you have smoothed out the kinks in the system. (This is especially important at the peak in August which is brutal.)
c) Entry to queuing system ought to be easy to do without having to go to the office first to scan the code. If you have to go there first, you have ensured that a crowd is formed with a bottleneck for the first half of the day in peak times of the year, so that's why a simple webpage address is essential.
d) the translation of the language versions of the web form ought to be improved. It didn't look intuitive to me. Perhaps, the essential information could be got in a more streamlined format. It seemed very clunky at the time.

3) Taking into account that we shouldnt differentiate pilgrims according to how long they walk, they differentiate between if their first compostela or not. If it is their first time, they ought to go to a different section/queue to those who it is their second or more time. Then, perhaps they might get a more personal experience that first time. (It is not such a big deal if it is your 5th time to get a compostela.) Both the person I walked with and I found it totally impersonal, and that's simply because the huge numbers and the pressure to get through them quickly.
 
trecile said:
@t2andreo, who volunteers at the Pilgrims Office wrote a more complete explanation than mine about the process two years ago
Click to expand...
And where is a pilgrim who shows up meant to find this out? I didnt see it written anywhere about being able to access the queue online. I'm literally hearing it for the first time two weeks after coming home! Problem is everyone thinks everyone knows. But not everyone has time or interest to research every little nuance of how that office is run. Put a sign outside with clear instructions that'd be a start.
 
No, I was there half the day and no, I didnt figure it out. I must be stupid. Or they need to tell people. I'm literally hearing this two weeks too late.
 
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Lots of good suggestions @Mel C .
Especially this one.
Mel C said:
1) The place to get a ticket is not at the entrance but way down in the basement.
Problem: It is non-intuitive and leads to unnecessary confusion.
Click to expand...
Yes, why isn't the ticket spitting out machine at the entrance?
Also at the entrance should be a large sign in several languages describing the process.
None of these issues are to do with the technology, but with the lack of common sense when setting up the system.
 
A couple of years ago, I remember big debates and complaints on the forum about the system for issuing compostelas. Then a new process was put in place, with all the start-up pains you might imagine. Then we got a pandemic and everything shut down. Then people started walking again and we have similar glitches again as well as the post-pandemic complications.

Some forum members are volunteers. Maybe the staff and cathedral people listen to volunteers sometimes. But my impression, from memory and no direct knowledge, is that the institution that is responsible for the compostela and its issue - the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela - is not an institution that has customer service, efficiency and user consultation, as top priorities. We forum members have very little influence, if any.

Don't think we are trying to defend an inconvenient and cumbersome system. We are describing what we do know about the system, and we are suggesting different ways to handle the experience. This is one of those cases where we have control over our own reactions, more than we have control over the cause. Let's keep this in perspective for what it is - an annoying nuisance at the end of a great experience.

[Edited to add link in the first sentence, to an old thread]
 
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Reminds me of one time when I was in a chocolate shop in Stockholm. I was the only customer in the store and there were three shop assistants. After browsing the displays I stood in front of one of the shop assistants and asked to be served. She stared at me for a while then walked off because I hadn't taken a ticket out of the machine. I then went to another assistant with the same result. I guess that maybe I am a slow learner but after the second episode another customer arrived, took a ticket and was served immediately and so I figured that things are done differently in Sweden and left the shop without buying anything.

I am used to people being a bit more flexible

Besides, the chocolate is much nicer in Bruges
 
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Nuevo Sistema para obtener la Compostela - Oficina del Peregrino

En la Oficina del Peregrino han establecido un nuevo sistema para agilizar el tiempo de espera para obtener la Compostela.
www.tee-travel.com

This blog explains the ticket system and the registration system, with examples and photos from inside the Pilgrims Office (in Spanish).

The instructions and translations for the form in other languages than Spanish are lousy, bordering on incomprehensible.

The QR codes are nothing else than website addresses (url). The advantage is that you don't have to copy a complicated address. You simply hold your mobile phone over the code and it copies the website address (url) without making any errors.

The Spanish word escanear means to scan.
 
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Mel, any constructive comments like this are definitely worth sharing. Bearing in mind:
But @t2andreo is headed that way soon to volunteer in the Pilgrim's office. He might be a person to give your suggestions to in a PM.


Albertagirl said:
I am at present feeling an undercurrent of contempt in some posts for the "over seventies" who cannot handle the mysteries of this process.
Click to expand...
Thank you @Albertagirl. I thought I was the only one annoyed by this. I'm not there yet, but know plenty of reasonally tech-competant 70- and 80- somethings. And I know I'm not the only one in that boat.
 
Camino Way markers in Bronze
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
Albertagirl said:
I am at present feeling an undercurrent of contempt in some posts for the "over seventies" who cannot handle the mysteries of this process.
Click to expand...
VNwalking said:
Thank you @Albertagirl. I thought I was the only one annoyed by this. I'm not there yet, but know plenty of reasonally tech-competant 70- and 80- somethings. And I know I'm not the only one in that boat.
Click to expand...
Sorry if I you got this feeling from my posts. It seemed like some people were saying that it's a complicated system and that you need to be some kind of tech genius to crack it, but it's really just a take a number and wait your turn system that we all are acquainted with. You needn't be young or have a smart phone to receive a Compostela.
The actual physical set up at the Pilgrim's Office however, is poor.
 
Well, I have to admit, that’s me.
 
No one is saying the system requires tech genius. Some have pointed out a lack of compassion, empathy, and understanding for those who don't do well with tech or may even feel intimidated, and that there is more than a little room for improving communication about the process. I don't criticize the volunteers, who have little control and are working hard to make life better for pilgrims. If at the end of a time with one of my patients, they aren't comfortable using a new piece of medical equipment, or don't understand why they must do something or the order in which they should do it, or are too intimidated to ask for help, it is 100% on me and 0% on the patient. IMHO this should be the way the Pilgrims Office sees things.

sparrow hops off soap box and kicks it all the way out of the room.
 
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Bit of a first world problem, nice lying on the grass outside in the court yard quietly reflecting waiting for your number to come up. Many of the pilgrims excited about their accomplishment, nice to see them mostly smiling and hugging each other(before Covid).

Ultimately life itself is just one long queue for death.

The English seem to understand.

 
trecile said:
The actual physical set up at the Pilgrim's Office however, is poor.
Click to expand...
Smallest_Sparrow said:
IMHO this should be the way the Pilgrims Office sees things.
Click to expand...
The can of worms that Mel's post has opened up is both about physical plant and attitude.

There's not anything we can be do about the attitude part. But the physical plant - the basic set up - seems more amenable to adjustment. @t2andreo? Do you think ithe powers that be would be open to a few simple improvements?
 
Peregrinopaul said:
Well, I have to admit, that’s me.
Click to expand...
we all have our strengths, it's our learning to combine our unique skills with others tha'ts important. My brother in law is an actual rocket scientist; helped design the space shuttle. He calculated exactly how many solar panels I would need. uses a flip phone. We reminisce about slide rules, and I set up their Tesla app. My sister has played in places from Carnegie Hall to the Sydney Opera House. I was helping her "find" her music she thought had been wiped from her iPad, and she said "oh, why didn't you say it was eighth notes". I wouldn't know an eighth note if it bit me in the rear. I'd be pretty intimidated if someone handed me a musical instrument (except a kazoo), or asked me about orbital patterns. I try to explain tech to them in ways they find approachable, they don't laugh when I need to be pointed in the direction of the meteor shower, or have to keep asking "who wrote that piece of music"

edit: technically I do now know what an eighth note is, it's the icon for apple music
 
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Camino Way markers in Bronze
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
I think this is a success story, the development of this thread. Reading down to this point from my last look in has left me with a spring in my 73.75 year old step! (I couldn't find a symbol for three quarters in vulgar fraction format. I can live with that).
found one way to copy and paste, it will do:
I have never forgotten my last algebra exam result, 12 and one quarter... I stuck to arithmetic after that!
 
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trecile said:
It seemed like some people were saying that it's a complicated system and that you need to be some kind of tech genius to crack it, but it's really just a take a number and wait your turn system that we all are acquainted with.
Click to expand...
I couldn't agree more. Judge for yourselves whether getting your number and waiting your turn is as difficult as playing a musical instrument that you see for the first time in your life or calculating orbital paths for space rockets.

The text in the screenshots is in Spanish but when you press the button with the UK flag, every bit of text you see is in (bad) English. Click to enlarge the photos.
  • A machine with a screen
  • a screen where you press one button
  • This gets you a piece of paper with a number on it and a QR code on it.
You have two options (see next post).
​
 
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Option 1: You pretend that the QR code is not there.

You wait until your number appears on the screens and/or is announced through speakers (in Spanish since you are in Spain).

Waiting time until it is your turn varies from minutes to several hours. Done.
 
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Option 2: You make use of the QR code.

You take your iPhone and hold it over the funny black and white pattern on your ticket as if you want to take a photo but without pressing the button. (I assume other smartphone will work in a similar way). You see a link:


You touch the link. You see your number and the number of the pilgrim who currently waits in the hallway of the Pilgrims Office and who will get his or her Compostela within minutes:



You continue to enjoy your coffee or beer at a bar or you rest in your albergue or hotel with your hurting feet up until your number is close enough to the current number and you walk over to the Office. Done.
 
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More 2024 Camino Guides available
The 2024 Camino guides will be coming out little by little. Here is a collection of the ones that are out so far.
So my suggestion would be: Instead of panicking at the mere thought of encountering a QR code and already knowing now that you won't be able to handle this, why not get your smartphone and acquaint yourselves with these things and what they can do for you. Look around, you can easily find some.

And in the Pilgrims Office in Santiago? Ask. Talk. With a volunteer or another pilgrim. I am confident that there are plenty around, young ones as well as old ones who would be more than happy to show you the few steps of how it works.

Filling in the digital questionnaire isn't much harder, btw.
 
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Is there anything on the ticket that indicates that if you were to do that you will get to see where you are in the queue? No. Not that I could see. So unless you know already, it is useless. How hard can it be to add a note to explain this? The problem is that everyone thinks it is known when it isn't and it isn't at all obvious what the purpose of that code was. It reminds me of the way smartphones no longer even give instruction manuals with them, and you only discover certain features years later quite by accident. I dont find it end user friendly.
 
In the space of my very long wait there, I spoke to volunteers easily 20 times. At no point was I told that the code could give you this queue online. It is really a shambles. Please explain how i can acquaint myself when there is no written instruction anywhere and the volunteers dont tell me. And believe me they could see I was very stressed there, as I was worried about a missed flight and my covid test happening within the time i was queuing, with the prospect of having to start all over again if i missed it. So rather than telling me i should have known better two weeks after ive got home, maybe we think of the next pilgrim in the same predictament and fix it for them. It is never about fixing it for me as once was enough for me.
 
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Mel C said:
I dont find it end user friendly.
Click to expand...
Yes, you are right. These days, there are jobs in IT for specialists who address issues of UX and UI - user experience design and user interface design. It is not about programming - it is about the whole concept of design on and off screen, seen from the user's point of view. I don't think that they made use of this or are much aware of it ... and as I said already a few times, the translated texts are bad. I emailed them last year about it. There was no response to me and there is no sign of change or improvement of the texts.

I had also emailed them a few years ago about a specific improvement of a text on their website. There was an acknowledgement of receipt but only by accident (my email address got copied to the distribution list of an internal email). Nothing happened on the website though.
 
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Mel C said:
two weeks after ive got home
Click to expand...
BTW, two weeks ago, in particular on 13-14 August and 20-21 August, they had record numbers for this year, around 1,800 Compostelas daily. If I understand the interview with Segundo Pérez, who is the dean of the Cathedral of Santiago and the boss of the Pilgrims Office, correctly, there were pilgrims who did not get a Compostela at all because of the high influx. Somos los que somos, los puestos de atención están llenos, y no podemos más, lo sentimos, pero no podemos más, he said.

Yesterday they had welcomed the 100,000th pilgrim of this year at the Pilgrims Office. Apparently, the "boom" during this summer was somewhat unexpected.
 
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Ah, that'd would explain it. I was there on the 19th so I probably got some of that wave.
 
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I do so agree, but these venerable ladies could barely walk from the entrance hall to the desk so 100km?

Be that as it may, they still got their Compostelas.
 
I know what you mean. My friends wife says he has a brain the size of a planet (he has) but no common sense (I agree)
 
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I wonder if the designers of this current system put the number-dispensing machine downstairs in the courtyard because, in their view, they were inviting pilgrims into their facility and offering welcoming services and comfort and toilets. Getting a number being just one more aspect of the visit? Akin to my welcoming you into my home, offering a seat, perhaps a drink, and some polite conversation before getting to the point.

Most folks may prefer to treat a visit to the PO like a trip to the bank. The powers that be may have another preference.

Far more efficient to have that machine easily and quickly accessible.
 
Camino Way markers in Bronze
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
alexwalker said:
I may have met you: I worked there from May 15 to June 1st., 2019.
Click to expand...
Just checked my diary, we were there Friday 10th May 2019, so missed you by a few days.
 
Hi Mel, we start or next Camino in Porto next week. A Camino rescheduled originally from May 2020 to Sept 2020 to May 2021 to finally, now, Sept 2021. My wife is in full Camino mode (Watching "The Way" most nights, packing & re-packing, looking for interesting places to visit).
But as I am responsible for the "paperwork" with all the additional vaccine passports, testing before we go, when we are out there, when we come back, Easyjet cancelling flights, conflicting information etc. my stress level is currently on red alert and I don't feel the Camino spirit in me.
At the moment feel more like a contestant on "The Apprentice" waiting to be shot down for not having the right barcode, certificate or some other spurious piece of information I never knew I needed.
However, once we set foot on the Camino everything will be fine, and if I'm still Mr Grumpy my wife says I'm walking on my own.
 
I’ve loved all my visits to Santiago (dC) and to himself - one who perhaps touched the divine. I’ve got a few certificates to prove it. I stopped collecting those a while ago now. I didn’t lose my temper with the queue or get bewildered by the ever intruding technology. I just found, for myself, a different view. “I know I have come, I know why. I have paid my dues. I’m gone.”
I don’t think Santiago gives a “flying” and I’m sure and certain that Santo Domingo, my favourite Camino hero, the road-builder, doesn’t give a monkey. I don’t expect the Gatekeeper to ask for the paperwork when I get there (unlike Border Control). So while I’ll continue to carry much sympathy for the OP and her tribulations I’m far from convinced that amending a farce will make any difference at all.
All it needs is a QR code on the wall outside…… pardon?
 
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You made me laugh, thank you for that!
 
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We couldnt get the QR code to work, but just did a bit of maths, worked out how many they had done since open to get the hourly rate and estimated the time until our number based on that.
 
Maybe a bit off topic - but a slice of nostalgia.

Some of you will remember this earlier incarnation of the Pilgrims' Office - photos from my first visit in October 2011 and again in April 2013. I recall an old building - not far from the Cathedral - entering via large wooden and iron gates into a pretty courtyard and up a rickety flight of stairs to a small waiting area. Pilgrims going in two or three at a time to present their credenciale, answer some questions about their camino and their motivation for The Way - and within a few minutes receiving our compostelas. The next time I was there - in October 2014, I recall the pilgrims' office in the same location but in a more modern building with a new system. I haven't sought a compostela on later caminos, so I can't comment on that - but I do have fond memories of those first two in the old building.

First photo (Oct 2011) in the pilgrim office foyer is of a wonderful Italian gentleman I kept seeing along The Way. He and his friend walked much slower than me - and looked to be in a world of physical pain most of the time - so I was always a little surprised and delighted to see them again. I came to realise that they started before sunrise every day and usually arrived at their destination well after dark. I was thrilled to see them again in SdeC having arrived on the same day as me.

The second photo (April 2013) is my friend and I inside the pilgrims' office, completing paperwork for our compostelas (yes we had matching jackets - by accident!).

Great memories.
 

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Okay folks, I am at Santiago de Compostela. I arrived - exhausted on Thursday and slept 13 hours Thursday night and 12 hours last most. The bells woke me up. But I have been in bed by 7:30 the evening.

Here is the plan. First I need to reconnect with friends I have not seen in two years. Then, I have some small errands to run.

I start at the Pilgrim Office on Tuesday. Yesterday I stopped by just to say hello and let them know I was there. While there, I saw some things that were illogical. I said NOTHING.

Before I start offering thoughts and opinions about the process, I need more facts, observations and answers to questions that develop.
So, stay tuned. I am on it.

Hope this helps.

Tom
 
So glad to read that you are able to be and are in SdC. Looking forward to "staying tuned" reading your posts as you continue volunteering.
Stay safe and Carpe diem!
 
Let us pick up your suitcase once you arrive in Europe....
...and ship it to Santiago for storage. You pick it up once in Santiago. Service offered by Casa Ivar (we use DHL for transportation).
trecile said:
You don't need to have an iPhone. Any smartphone will work.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but I don't know how they work when scanning a QR code .
Probably the same way as iPhones do?

I mentioned already that I had shied away from using QR scanning options unless I had to. Finally, I got a QR Reader app for it. It was only recently that I discovered that a special app is no longer needed; that the ability to scan a QR code and interpret it, either as text or as a link to a webpage, is now incorporated in the inbuilt Photo app that I use for taking photos and movies.

I mentioned this because I believe that this knowledge can lower the hurdle that people may see otherwise, or inspire some to just try it out for themselves.
 
I've had that in post offices in Pamplona and Bastogne - an empty hall and you still had to get a ticket only to be served by the clerk who shoo'ed you away in the first place!
 
I basically ran the last 100km. Completed in 2 days. The mood had changed so much. I never considered the lineup impact. Very interesting idea though I don’t know if it would fly.
 
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I volunteered this last summer, and that is exactly how it works. Or, you can wait in the garden at the back of the office if you'd prefer instead. You don't actually have to wait in any kind of queue until you are about 20 numbers from yours. You do, however need to keep an eye out, as you are put at the end of the day if you miss your number.

At the original poster, I understand the frustration when you see someone who has walked differently than you get the jump on you when it is basically a first come, first served process. That being said, there can be a lot of reasons why a pilgrim might send their pack on or walk shorter than you did or even skip the meseta on the Frances (injury, illness, age, a hypersensitivity to heat, having medical equipment that is heavy with you, time constraints, etc.). A pilgrim is dictated by your attitude and your heart, not by how arduous the journey was. Besides, your adruous could be someone's easy, and vice versa. At the pilgrims office, we did as much as we could to make the lines go quickly and painlessly, but that only goes so far when there are big crowds of people.
 
This is a great thread with invaluable info ( I especially enjoyed the reference to Mathew 20 (KUDOS)). Thank you to everyone. I know this had probably been said in one or more of the aforementioned replies, but every pilgrimage is an individual matter - whether its 100K or 1500K. I walked from St JPdP......but a fellow peregrina left from her home in Vilnius. I'm not sure there is a benefit (or logic) to apply value to the metrics.
It's unfortunate the experience of Santiago came with soooooo much stress. That could be a day-wrecker (or a Camino downer). I do hope the last days will be erased by the previous four weeks of your trek.
I think of the old Irish proverb - "Da Fhad La Taginn Oiche" (sorry - no fadas) which you might know translates, "Even the Longest Day Has an End" !!!!

Beannachtai ort (God Bless)
 
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Peter Fransiscus said:
The gist of the story is that you have to plan not only the journey to… but also the time after you arrive. Next time just stay for a few days and explore the city further. It's so worth it.
Click to expand...
There's an idea. Spend a night or more and go to the cathedral in the morning before the line forms!

(Just be sure it's the right cathedral. A guy in Los Angeles, for the release of a Star Wars movie, camped two weeks outside the wrong theater.)
 
Confirm. We had a blind lady stay with us in Navarra. She declined help getting from one side of the albergue to the other. About fifteen kilometers away, just west of Logroño, a large sign has Braille on it. There is at least one group that offers a two person escort to blind pilgrims. The blind pilgrim holds the middle of a bar, while the escort in front of the bar calls out warnings of trail hazards, and the one in the back keeps them from drifting sideways off the trail. Our blind lady was with someone else, but most of the time in Villamayor, she got around on her own.
 
One time when I ran the Marine Corps Marathon I was knocked down by another runner from behind just past a food station (orange slices). I hopped up ready to yell at the other runner to pay attention to the road (some get distracted at look at the food/water offered rather than where they are running). As I turned around, I was face to face with a blind runner being helped up by his guide luckily before any words had left my lips. He, I, and his guide all confirmed we were fine (despite blood running down my leg) and away we went.
 
Camino Way markers in Bronze
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
Several websites, including the official site of the Pelgrim's office explain getting a numbered ticket with QR code that allows you to see what number they're at.
This is the first time though I find out that apparently you cannot get a numbered ticket anymore before you have completed an online form to get another QR code.

There's a 'register' option at the Pelgrim's office website now, but when you choose 'single' and select English language you can fill in a form and then the only option to continue is 'create a group'. When you select Spanish language you can continue with 'alta individual'. So I suppose it's an incorrect translation and you can continue with 'create a group' as an individual but it's very confusing. It also doesn't say you wil get a QR code when you continue (do you?).
 
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biarritzdon said:
Which was more important to you, the voyage or the gift at the end of it?
Click to expand...
Agreed- the Camino for me was the journey, not the destination...

That said, I was grossly disappointed that the brass band that was to welcome me into Santiago after 6 weeks on the road inexplicably had been given the day off...
 
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In all honesty, it sounds like they took something that was exquisitely simple - just stand in line - and turned it into a confusing mess.

I'm not saying there were no problems with the simple queueing.There obviously were. But tech is not necessarily better - or a better solution to a logistic problem.

Realtime reports here attest to that.
 
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I have walked from SJPdP twice and once from Porto, with my best friend/camino buddy. Last year I was going to have a holiday in Spain and planned to walk the last 100 or so from Vigo alone. Why! Because I wanted to know what it felt like to do the last 100; because I would be proud of myself for stepping out on my own - it takes a big effort for me - and because I would then be able to relate even more to pilgrims, when I followed it up with my stint as a volunteer at the Pilgrim Office. Hopefully when Aus opens up I will be able to do it, then I'll follow up with a longer one again.
 
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A few screenshots below to make clear what's it about. I still cannot believe that these are the webpages where pilgrims fill in the digital form for their Compostela. Such shoddy work. If there is one thing to complain about and implore them to improve it which wouldn't be hard to do and wouldn't break the bank, then that's it.

Look at the French and English versions: Where it says Alta Individual in Spanish which I believe means Individual form in this case, the English says Create a group and the French says Go back. Can someone confirm that this is really what it looked like when they filled in their details???

(Click to enlarge)

The link to the forms on the Pilgrims Office's website:
 
VNwalking said:
In all honesty, it sounds like they took something that was exquisitely simple - just stand in line - and turned it into a confusing mess.
Click to expand...
Bear in mind that the option to fill in the form for the Compostela went digital not really because they want to cut down waiting times. The main purpose is to cut down working time for the staff who, in the past, had to enter every pilgrim's details manually into their database. So, with the new system, instead of a handful of staff entering the details of hundreds if not thousands of pilgrims every day into the database, every pilgrim enters their details himself or herself. Makes sense to me.

Pilgrims will help the staff of the Pilgrims Office if they fill in the form digitally. And isn't every pilgrim eager to help when he or she can do so?
 
The Cathedral of Santiago was gracious enough to issue me with a Compostela whether I walked as a Catholic or Christian, or for spiritual reasons or for fitness sake or any other undisclosed reason. That I made an effort of at least 100 km was the only requirement for my Compostela.

I did not have to prove any element of suffering, with farmacia receipts or photos of shredded skin. I did not have to weigh my back pack or day pack to prove myself as worthy as the next. I did not have to deny
bus or taxi transport nor use of tourism companies.

I was not quizzed over potential sins along the Way which may have sullied my worthiness (murderous thoughts against bag rustlers, window closers, Mega Snorers and the like, sins of gluttony and wine, sins of the gaze involving flocks of lycra clad bicigrinos and so on....so many potential sins !)

In fact the Cathedral just accepted me as I was, to be a pilgrim and to be deserving .

Waiting in a queue was a small price to pay for the document that reminds me often of this.
 
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