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In Italy is the same (actually you can find it at the bar for less than 1 €):Stopped in at a Starbucks in Vancouver today. I don’t care for Starbucks but was with a friend who likes it. A latte or similar at Starbucks costs around €4. That’s a typical price for any coffee shop here. And that gets you your coffee in a disposable cup.
Compare that to Spain, where somehow you can walk into any bar or cafe, have a fresh ground cafe con leche, served in a proper ceramic cup that they’ll have to wash after, and that coffee costs around €1.30.
I’d love to know how Spain is able to sell coffee at less than half the price of North America, and presumably still make a profit.
To be honest, I wouldn't be sure.I'm sure a lot has to do with the costs of running the business.
Prime locations = high rents.
Higher staff costs.
Higher costs of everything.
Stopped in at a Starbucks in Vancouver today. I don’t care for Starbucks but was with a friend who likes it. A latte or similar at Starbucks costs around €4. That’s a typical price for any coffee shop here. And that gets you your coffee in a disposable cup.
Compare that to Spain, where somehow you can walk into any bar or cafe, have a fresh ground cafe con leche, served in a proper ceramic cup that they’ll have to wash after, and that coffee costs around €1.30.
I’d love to know how Spain is able to sell coffee at less than half the price of North America, and presumably still make a profit.
I loved your answerLots of food and drink items are quite a bit cheaper in Spain than in North America. Also coffee is much more basic in Spain - I heard a quote today that the different permutations of flavors, sizes, and strengths of Starbucks beverages can run into the millions. Have you ever heard someone in Spain order a grande triple half caf latte over light ice with two pumps of mocha and one pump of pumpkin spice? Plus the overhead of Spanish bars and cafes is much lower.
I loved your answer. I personally like my coffee black with no sugar and or all that other artsy farty stuffHey everyone. Spanish coffee is cheap because Spanish coffee companies use the lower-quality, lower-price, more highly-caffeinated Robusta bean(vs the Arabica used by “specialty“ coffee companies). The cheap bean is then roasted using the “torrefaction” method, adding sugar to coat the outside of the bean with a little sweetness to balance the flavor. Pervasive Spanish use of UHP(shelf-stable) milk also keeps costs down.
I am not much of a coffee expert. I usually just buy coffee from Costco and my morning coffee is 2 cups with a little milk in each cup. I live in Mexico now and I use shelf bought milk. It took some getting used to but now I am fine with it. In Starbucks here in Mexico I would assume they use the same beans as all Starbucks but they use shelf milk. Depending on where you are, what colonia you are in you can pay as much as 4.00 US dollars for a latte (I guess that is the closest thing to a cafe con leche in Spain).Hey everyone. Spanish coffee is cheap because Spanish coffee companies use the lower-quality, lower-price, more highly-caffeinated Robusta bean(vs the Arabica used by “specialty“ coffee companies). The cheap bean is then roasted using the “torrefaction” method, adding sugar to coat the outside of the bean with a little sweetness to balance the flavor. Pervasive Spanish use of UHP(shelf-stable) milk also keeps costs down.
Wine is mostly about tax, though, I think. Some countries have very high taxes on alcohol.How about the cost of a glass of wine? Last night we had dinner at an average restaurant in Portland, Oregon and it was $8 for a half glass, and $14 for a full glass. And a full glass is about 6 ounces. We bought a bottle.
And give you a tapa with it that is likely worth more than the coffee in N. A.Stopped in at a Starbucks in Vancouver today. I don’t care for Starbucks but was with a friend who likes it. A latte or similar at Starbucks costs around €4. That’s a typical price for any coffee shop here. And that gets you your coffee in a disposable cup.
Compare that to Spain, where somehow you can walk into any bar or cafe, have a fresh ground cafe con leche, served in a proper ceramic cup that they’ll have to wash after, and that coffee costs around €1.30.
I’d love to know how Spain is able to sell coffee at less than half the price of North America, and presumably still make a profit.
I recently had some friends over from my local Camino group and wanted to buy some UHT milk to make café con leches with that authentic Spanish taste. It's not ubiquitous like it is in Spain. I could only find one brand which came in a six pack of small juice box sized cartons, and was very expensive! I ended up just buying regular refrigerated milk.Pervasive Spanish use of UHP(shelf-stable) milk also keeps costs down.
Very true. A combination of taxes and minimum price laws mean that the lowest amount a shop in Scotland can charge for a bottle of whisky is about to rise to the equivalent of 21 euro. A similar bottle in a Spanish supermarket might be as low as 6 euro.Wine is mostly about tax, though, I think. Some countries have very high taxes on alcohol.
Fresh McDonalds coffee is just fine. But being happily retired, I drive the Alcan through Canada most years, all months, and look forward to Tim Horton's coffee. But, wow, love the fresh squeezed zumo de naranja in a Spanish bar. Buen CaminoThere being no Spanish bar-cafés near where I live here in Canada, I frequently buy a large coffee at a McDonald's. The price is CAD$1.50; about €1.00. Its aroma, taste, and temperature are perfectly acceptable to me. The product quality is repeatable over time and between locations. It warms me up and gets me energized. The ordering of it does not take as much time as it would at a Starbucks. And it does not cost €4.00.
This may be true in some places, but I can show you many coffee bars in Italy with prices around 1€, using, for example, Caffè Illy, made with high quality Arabica and fresh milk (not UHT).Hey everyone. Spanish coffee is cheap because Spanish coffee companies use the lower-quality, lower-price, more highly-caffeinated Robusta bean(vs the Arabica used by “specialty“ coffee companies). The cheap bean is then roasted using the “torrefaction” method, adding sugar to coat the outside of the bean with a little sweetness to balance the flavor. Pervasive Spanish use of UHP(shelf-stable) milk also keeps costs down.
So assuming 10g of coffee for an espresso/cafe solo (i get conflicting numbers)... the difference between a "cheap" 10€/kg and an "expensive" 40€/kg coffee is exactly 30ct. To me that doesnt explain a price difference of 2-3€.Hey everyone. Spanish coffee is cheap because Spanish coffee companies use the lower-quality, lower-price, more highly-caffeinated Robusta bean(vs the Arabica used by “specialty“ coffee companies). The cheap bean is then roasted using the “torrefaction” method, adding sugar to coat the outside of the bean with a little sweetness to balance the flavor. Pervasive Spanish use of UHP(shelf-stable) milk also keeps costs down.
my favorite coffee quote comes from Alfred Peet, who immigrated to the USA in 1955... "I came to the richest country in the World, so why are they drinking the lousiest coffee?"
The absolutely lousiest cup of coffee I've ever had was in Turkey; a "complimentary" small espresso cup size while being shown expensive rugs on a tour. It was literally thick as mud and looked like mud. The old joke "a spoon could stand up in it" was no joke....I wish I'd asked for the tea instead."I came to the richest country in the World, so why are they drinking the lousiest coffee?"
I don’t think you’re comparing apples to apples. Take a look at Starbuck’s prices in Madrid, they are very similar to what you pay in Vancouver! Latte prices start at €4.30.Stopped in at a Starbucks in Vancouver today. I don’t care for Starbucks but was with a friend who likes it. A latte or similar at Starbucks costs around €4.
Don’t! I cry every time I return to London after a CaminoHow about the cost of a glass of wine? Last night we had dinner at an average restaurant in Portland, Oregon and it was $8 for a half glass, and $14 for a full glass. And a full glass is about 6 ounces. We bought a bottle.
The 1€ coffee at the bar has been an institution in Italy since for many years…This may be true in some places, but I can show you many coffee bars in Italy with prices around 1€, using, for example, Caffè Illy, made with high quality Arabica and fresh milk (not UHT).
The difference is mostly the overhead of the different types of businesses.So assuming 10g of coffee for an espresso/cafe solo (i get conflicting numbers)... the difference between a "cheap" 10€/kg and an "expensive" 40€/kg coffee is exactly 30ct. To me that doesnt explain a price difference of 2-3€.
In those years when I had to do a lot of driving in Ontario and Québec, Tim's provided a decent standard (although not a high one!) for road coffee. Many mom&pop stops along the way featured the weak and bitter coffee which we ended up with during WWII, to which all became accustomed. If you were lucky enough to find one run by Arabs or Greeks, possible in the Maritimes, you could ask specifically for the sort of coffee they would give their exacting great-aunt--- it seems everyone had such an aunt, as this reaped me very good coffee and usually a piece of loukoum or baklava.Fresh McDonalds coffee is just fine. But being happily retired, I drive the Alcan through Canada most years, all months, and look forward to Tim Horton's coffee. But, wow, love the fresh squeezed zumo de naranja in a Spanish bar. Buen Camino
And let’s add - Tables of men playing dominos or cards, next to similar tables of women doing the same thing.Desirable: Vigorous discussions in the background about soccer.
I have heard that about the robusta. But an Italian espresso or a cappuccino is not usually that different in price from a Spanish cafe or cafe con leche. Did they also use robusta in Italy?Hey everyone. Spanish coffee is cheap because Spanish coffee companies use the lower-quality, lower-price, more highly-caffeinated Robusta bean(vs the Arabica used by “specialty“ coffee companies). The cheap bean is then roasted using the “torrefaction” method, adding sugar to coat the outside of the bean with a little sweetness to balance the flavor. Pervasive Spanish use of UHP(shelf-stable) milk also keeps costs down.
There was a famous lawsuit a few years ago because a woman severely burned her self, because McDonald's used to make the coffee so hot.Friends tell me that McDonald's coffee is now palatable
InterestingHey everyone. Spanish coffee is cheap because Spanish coffee companies use the lower-quality, lower-price, more highly-caffeinated Robusta bean(vs the Arabica used by “specialty“ coffee companies). The cheap bean is then roasted using the “torrefaction” method, adding sugar to coat the outside of the bean with a little sweetness to balance the flavor. Pervasive Spanish use of UHP(shelf-stable) milk also keeps costs down.
I simply, and sadly, don't drink wine when I come home. I'd love to have a glass or two with dinner every night like I do in Spain but the price is just too prohibitive.How about the cost of a glass of wine? Last night we had dinner at an average restaurant in Portland, Oregon and it was $8 for a half glass, and $14 for a full glass. And a full glass is about 6 ounces. We bought a bottle.
4 Euros now that's a bit exey I thought 3 euros in Sydney was expensive!Stopped in at a Starbucks in Vancouver today. I don’t care for Starbucks but was with a friend who likes it. A latte or similar at Starbucks costs around €4. That’s a typical price for any coffee shop here. And that gets you your coffee in a disposable cup.
Compare that to Spain, where somehow you can walk into any bar or cafe, have a fresh ground cafe con leche, served in a proper ceramic cup that they’ll have to wash after, and that coffee costs around €1.30.
I’d love to know how Spain is able to sell coffee at less than half the price of North America, and presumably still make a profit.
I was in Australia last year and can assure you that they don't know how to make a bad cup of coffee. They have espresso machines in gas stations.....A little comment from a wanderer from the country down under which is acknowledged as being the best(?) judge of coffee in the world as proven by the attached photo taken outside a coffee shop in Jordan(even if their spelling is not perfect, after all English is not their first language). Incidentally, in Jordan you can get a a cup of excellent Turkish coffee - also known as Arabian, Middle-east or Greek style coffee - from a road-side stall for well under €1. Having drunk cups of coffee in well over 100 countries, including its home territories of Ethiopia/Eritrea (take your pick as to in which country coffee originated), my motto is: don't worry about the cost of the coffee. Just appreciate a good cup wherever you get it: Spain, France, Italy or Australia; although, having lived in both the USA and Canada, I have to say it is much more difficult finding a good coffee in either of those two countries. If you enjoy Starbucks, pay the money and enjoy. PS: If you are interested: I only drink black coffee with no additives such as sugar.
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I was in Australia last year and can assure you that they don't know how to make a bad cup of coffee. They have espresso machines in gas stations.....
That's really interesting, @trecile. I had no idea that UHT milk is hard to find in the USA. UHT milk is ubiquitous not only in Spain but where I live in Europe too and I avoid it where I can. I have only a half litre bottle in my fridge in case I run out of fresh milk. On its own, the taste makes it undrinkable for me.I recently had some friends over from my local Camino group and wanted to buy some UHT milk to make café con leches with that authentic Spanish taste. It's not ubiquitous like it is in Spain. I could only find one brand which came in a six pack of small juice box sized cartons, and was very expensive!
Haha - when I lived for a while in that region we did actually call it ‘mud’, but once you know how it’s made and therefore how to drink it, it’s wonderful. It’s ground to dust and made without any filtration or separation, so you need to let the grounds settle to the bottom of the cup, which they do after a few minutes, and you only drink the top part. I still occasionally buy a bag when I’m feeling nostalgic or fancy a change.It was literally thick as mud and looked like mud.
Now don’t get me started. As a trainee cantankerous old man I can complain for hours about people walking along with a coffee in one hand and a phone in the other. And while we’re at it, people who hold lengthy, loud phone conversations when out walking in a group.people are walking around on the street with coffee cups
I went through Ashland in 2013. What a beautiful area. I love a good cup of coffee. I think Starbucks are dreadful though.I am not much of a coffee expert. I usually just buy coffee from Costco and my morning coffee is 2 cups with a little milk in each cup. I live in Mexico now and I use shelf bought milk. It took some getting used to but now I am fine with it. In Starbucks here in Mexico I would assume they use the same beans as all Starbucks but they use shelf milk. Depending on where you are, what colonia you are in you can pay as much as 4.00 US dollars for a latte (I guess that is the closest thing to a cafe con leche in Spain).
Anyway I digress, for me, I am perfectly happy with the coffee I get in Spain and Portugal and have those extra euros in my pocket.
P.S. I also lived in Ashland, Oregon for over 20 years and the Pacific Northwest is a haven for coffee to say the least. I definitely appreciate when I get a killer cup and I can tell you coffee and beans were a topic of conversation for people in Ashland as I am sure it is in Portland. We did have some great local coffee shops. Ashland being a tourist town had 3 Starbucks that all thrived especially because of the tourists. But the local shops did very well too. Some were as expensive and some cheaper. If you love coffee the Pacific Northwest is a great place to live.
Yes, milk is very expensive in some countries.Anyway, and that's my point, when we talk about latte or cafe con leche, it's not the coffee alone that makes the taste. Or the price for that matter. And I am not a coffee connoisseur, obviously.
Oh, my goodness! you have taken me back to the quarter ounce tins of powdered coffee - Nescafe? my mother produced, made with milk, in my childhood! The smell is still stored in my little brain!Just expanding the topic.
If I remember correctly (source: a book on the history of Italian food I read many years ago), the Florian Cafè in Piazza San Marco was the first Italian coffee house - opened in 1720 - but drinking coffee in Europe actually started in London and was imported to Veneto after the Austrian occupation of the northern regions.
There, a coffee cost 6.50 €, a cappuccino 10.50 €. But you are sitting in a monument:
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I went there years ago (the company I was working for at the time paid the bill...). Not impressed by the quality of the coffee but an experience (Take that Starbucks' "Discriminating Coffee Connoisseurs"!) Don't expect a good service either (or the best coffee of your life, that I got in Djibouti actually... sorry my countryfellows!)
For a similar experience, if you reach Rome via via Francigena, is the relatively more "recent" Caffè Greco (open since 1760). There you will seat at the very same tables where Liszt, Goethe, Schopenauer, Stendhal, Keats (living nearby), Lord Byron, Ibsen, Hans Christian Andersen Wagner, Mendelsson and many others seat in the past.
But for the best coffee experience ever in Rome, go to Caffè Sant'Eustachio, near the Pantheon. They are rude like hell but it is worth the cup...
And... best coffee in Italy? Naples, no discussion!
I went through Ashland in 2013. What a beautiful area. I love a good cup of coffee. I think Starbucks are dreadful though.
I am an astronomer, and there is an old saying that "an astronomer is a machine that converts caffeine into published papers". That's why I'm fixated on coffee.Oh, my goodness! you have taken me back to the quarter ounce tins of powdered coffee - Nescafe? my mother produced, made with milk, in my childhood! The smell is still stored in my little brain!
Ashland is a beautiful place and there are some really good places for a really good coffee that does not have the word Starbucks in its name!I went through Ashland in 2013. What a beautiful area. I love a good cup of coffee. I think Starbucks are dreadful though.
It's never done well in the US because people here don't trust milk that's not refrigerated. I have seen UHT milk containers in refrigerators in grocery stores here. People just aren't that familiar with it.I had no idea that UHT milk is hard to find in the USA.
Ahh Chrissy, if brewed correctly (in a cezve/ibrik 3 times over a flame, each time until it is just on boiling) and then drunk after you allow the grounds to settle, and you only drink the top bit (not the "mud" at the bottom) you will not get any mud and will have the most delicious cup of real coffee.The absolutely lousiest cup of coffee I've ever had was in Turkey; a "complimentary" small espresso cup size while being shown expensive rugs on a tour. It was literally thick as mud and looked like mud. The old joke "a spoon could stand up in it" was no joke....I wish I'd asked for the tea instead.
Can it be served with true cream or "half and half" cream as an option?Ahh Chrissy, if brewed correctly (in a cezve/ibrik 3 times over a flame, each time until it is just on boiling) and then drunk after you allow the grounds to settle, and you only drink the top bit (not the "mud" at the bottom) you will not get any mud and will have the most delicious cup of real coffee.
A friend of mine who joneses after it tells me that it is easily found at Costco.It's never done well in the US because people here don't trust milk that's not refrigerated. I have seen UHT milk containers in refrigerators in grocery stores here. People just aren't that familiar with it.
I have never looked for it at Costco, but checking their app I see that it available, but only in the small juice box size cartons at a fairly high price.A friend of mine who joneses after it tells me that it is easily found at Costco.
Sorry Chrissy, it is a bit like Henry Ford's dictum: you can have any colour you like as long as it is black.Can it be served with true cream or "half and half" cream as an option?Unfortunately I have an aversion to black coffee, with or without the mud, but wish it weren't so. Thanks for the special details though.
Parmalat comes in 32 oz cartons and I think most supermarkets carry it (usually in the baking aisle near evaporated and condensed milks).I recently had some friends over from my local Camino group and wanted to buy some UHT milk to make café con leches with that authentic Spanish taste. It's not ubiquitous like it is in Spain. I could only find one brand which came in a six pack of small juice box sized cartons, and was very expensive! I ended up just buying regular refrigerated milk.
Thanks. I do see that it's available in grocery stores near me. I didn't think of looking in the baking aisle. The brand that I bought was Lala.Parmalat comes in 32 oz cartons and I think most supermarkets carry it (usually in the baking aisle near evaporated and condensed milks).
Isn't Charbucks repeatable? I think so, but my sample size is small. (Meaning it tastes so bad I don't go there often.)The product quality is repeatable over time and between locations.
Me: "I'd like a large flat white"I live on an island off the mainland of Europe, with a bigger island between us that used to be the main transport option for exports and imports.
Indeed the cost of alcohol in USA is quite eye watering! Spent a couple of months in USA this year..,east coast, west coast, mid west, and (outside happy hours), $12 seems to be the ‘lead in’ price,, and that’s before you add the taxes and gratuity, so bottom line $15. That compare to €2 in Spain, of course!How about the cost of a glass of wine? Last night we had dinner at an average restaurant in Portland, Oregon and it was $8 for a half glass, and $14 for a full glass. And a full glass is about 6 ounces. We bought a bottle.
Yes but unfortunately those "Spanish bars" are disappearing in cities like Madrid and are replaced by fast food, Starbucks, etc. They are very convenient if you need to go to toilet. You have a "cortado en la barra" pay 1,5 with no tip required and continue walking.But back to coffee. Comparisons I guess are harder given that Spanish coffees bars are very different to USA environments.
Yes but unfortunately those "Spanish bars" are disappearing in cities like Madrid and are replaced by fast food, Starbucks, etc. They are very convenient if you need to go to toilet. You have a "cortado en la barra" pay 1,5 with no tip required and continue walking.
Be a little wary of comparison; the economics of Spain are significantly different than that of the U.S. In addition, the cost of running a business in Spain is much lower than that of the U.S., especially when it comes to 1) medical care costs 2) workman's compensation fraud 3) litigation over trivial matters. Businesses have to survive so they price accordingly, depending on which area/country/city they are in. One can talk about Starbucks all one wants, but they have aficionados galore. And by the way, Vancouver is an extremely expensive city, nothing like Spain. Having said all this, I find it interesting and even pleasurable to experiences all the differences that exist between counties and cultures, even if, as in the case of New York, prices for everything are out of sight. ChuckStopped in at a Starbucks in Vancouver today. I don’t care for Starbucks but was with a friend who likes it. A latte or similar at Starbucks costs around €4. That’s a typical price for any coffee shop here. And that gets you your coffee in a disposable cup.
Compare that to Spain, where somehow you can walk into any bar or cafe, have a fresh ground cafe con leche, served in a proper ceramic cup that they’ll have to wash after, and that coffee costs around €1.30.
I’d love to know how Spain is able to sell coffee at less than half the price of North America, and presumably still make a profit.
It does make life, and mornings easier!I'm glad I don't drink coffee!
I’m a month away from 65 with a BP of 110/60 and RHR of 43 … I need something to kickstart me. Often my wife gives me a nudge to see if I’m still ticking … she doesn’t do well on the lottery either.I'm glad I don't drink coffee!
Lower wages, smaller cups, local businesses not corporate, I guess. If you go to a Starbucks etc in a big city it's not going to be €1.30 or there aboutsStopped in at a Starbucks in Vancouver today. I don’t care for Starbucks but was with a friend who likes it. A latte or similar at Starbucks costs around €4. That’s a typical price for any coffee shop here. And that gets you your coffee in a disposable cup.
Compare that to Spain, where somehow you can walk into any bar or cafe, have a fresh ground cafe con leche, served in a proper ceramic cup that they’ll have to wash after, and that coffee costs around €1.30.
I’d love to know how Spain is able to sell coffee at less than half the price of North America, and presumably still make a profit.
The "gun shot" coffees of Turkey are legendary, plz do not inlude in comparison w other coffees..!The absolutely lousiest cup of coffee I've ever had was in Turkey; a "complimentary" small espresso cup size while being shown expensive rugs on a tour. It was literally thick as mud and looked like mud. The old joke "a spoon could stand up in it" was no joke....I wish I'd asked for the tea instead.
That is an interesting read, Robo, and I can attest to the truth of its message, from experience here in Adelaide (since 1981) and from my infrequent visits back to the States, where everything is so different from the childhood I lived there in the early years of my life. Dallas is a great place to be "from" (= "away from"), I always say, and Oz generally, Adelaide specifically, is where I am*, for the duration. *(excepting pilgrimages in Europe whenever and as long as I can afford it, of course!)Yes, we are coffee snobs in Australia too
Why Starbucks FAILED in Australia: The $105 Million Loss Bet
Australians are spoiled for choice when it comes to coffee. After World War 2, Italian and Greek immigrants brought Coffee Culture to Australiawww.justologist.com
That is an interesting read, Robo, and I can attest to the truth of its message, from experience here in Adelaide (since 1981) and from my infrequent visits back to the States, where everything is so different from the childhood I lived there in the early years of my life. Dallas is a great place to be "from," I always say, and Oz generally, Adelaide specifically, is where I am*, for the duration. *(excepting pilgrimages in Europe whenever and as long as I can afford it, of course!)
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