- Time of past OR future Camino
- Recent:Norte/Muxia- Spring '23
MadridWay- Fall '23
You are correct, Peter, but I'd forgotten. Still, I think it should be left off the forum if not referring to kilometers.
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You are correct, Peter, but I'd forgotten. Still, I think it should be left off the forum if not referring to kilometers.Chrissy, that's what @TravellingMan22 said?
You do know that 'K' is a common abbreviation for thousand?
Chrissy, I have a great deal of respect for you but I struggle to understand your reasoning in this case. I use it all the time. For example if I was to talk about the price of something - say my car. If somebody inquired about the cost I would simply say '15 k'.You are correct, Peter, but I'd forgotten. Still, I think it should be left off the forum if not referring to kilometers.
Oooooo. Good thing you'd say that out of earshot.Let us imagine a fictive pilgrim who was born and raised in Scotland and now lives in Wales. Describing him, I would not hesitate to say: El es de Inglaterra
3 megameters then?I wouldn't say 3K kilometer for example.
Ditto, but @TravellingMan22 said "3K miles" !
Geez, I wouldn't! Much as I like my Western brethren, that's as bad as calling a Kiwi an Aussie!Describing him, I would not hesitate to say: El es de Inglaterra. Il est anglais. Der ist aus England.
I hear ya, and he did not make a mistake, but at the moment I read it I probably hadn't had my morning cupp'a Joe yet. "That's my story and I'm stickin' to it".Ditto, but @TravellingMan22 said "3K miles" !
Nor do we have 2 tsDitto, but @TravellingMan22 said "3K miles" !
Geez, I wouldn't! Much as I like my Western brethren, that's as bad as calling a Kiwi an Aussie!
The Scotts have a separate Parliament for a damn good reason they do not consider themselves English.
Vero?For sure, I actually speak Spanish pretty well, and Spaniards on the Camino will ask me where I am from (not, what is your nationality). When I say Estados Unidos someone will usually say (in Spanish and with a sense of humor), You cannot be American. They do not speak Spanish. And you have a Mexican accent. Much laughter follows. If anyone is REALLY interested, I'll tell the lengthy tale of how I came to speak kinda odd-sounding Spanish, even dropping Fidel Castro's name.
Eeek!even dropping Fidel Castro's name.
Some of my Canadian friends in México don’t like being called “gringos”, believing that that term should be reserved for us who hail from entre las dos fronteras, la de Canadá y la de los Estados UnidosThat's a change in the last 35 years. I'm not saying it isn't true, just that it used to be different in Spain. I remember when I was living in Madrid in '89/'90, being told many times that "Americano" meant anyone from the Americas and the correct term for someone from Los Estados Unidos was "norteamericano". No one understood why that bothered me, a Canadian.
How true, konnie. Unlike many from the US who are, sadly, geographically challengedWhen I was asked where I’m from I said america. Then I was always,always asked from where, so I said Arizona. It led to whole conversations because they usually wanted to pin it down. I’m always amazed how familiar people from other parts of the world are with geography.
You are right. When people refer to the Camino as being 800k long, their error is in using the wrong abbreviation for kilometer. The correct short form is ''km", for 1000 m. You need to deduce that 800k must mean 800 km, because 800k otherwise would have no units and we would have to ask "800k what?"The Camino Frances at 800k if used like I do at home would mean 800,000.
Well almost as many residents of USA speak Spanish as residents of Spain speak Spanish.For sure, I actually speak Spanish pretty well, and Spaniards on the Camino will ask me where I am from (not, what is your nationality). When I say Estados Unidos someone will usually say (in Spanish and with a sense of humor), You cannot be American. They do not speak Spanish. And you have a Mexican accent. Much laughter follows. If anyone is REALLY interested, I'll tell the lengthy tale of how I came to speak kinda odd-sounding Spanish, even dropping Fidel Castro's name.
Thanks, good point. I will personally try to use "km" from now on when abbreviating kilometers on this forum instead of the "k" the majority of us tend to use.You are right. When people refer to the Camino as being 800k long, their error is in using the wrong abbreviation for kilometer. The correct short form is ''km", for 1000 m. You need to deduce that 800k must mean 800 km, because 800k otherwise would have no units and we would have to ask "800k what?"
Maybe true for the majority of Americans (that is, of course, referring to United Statesians), who are not used to the metric system.instead of the "k" the majority of us tend to use.
Yep, gotta keep up with the abbreviations so as not to confuse the easily confused, como yo. I like the jargon/slang term used by the US military (and others?) that refers to a kilometer as a “klick”. I dunno, something about the sound of “I walked 25 klicks yesterday…” appeals to meYou are right. When people refer to the Camino as being 800k long, their error is in using the wrong abbreviation for kilometer. The correct short form is ''km", for 1000 m. You need to deduce that 800k must mean 800 km, because 800k otherwise would have no units and we would have to ask "800k what?"
As a retired flight attendant, been there, done that a few times!Indeed. Familiar with Bangor, Maine, which back in the day was often used by airlines who made a ‘tech stop’ to refuel after crossing the North Atlantic during strong headwinds, before continuing on.
When people refer to the Camino as being 800k long, their error is in using the wrong abbreviation for kilometer.
Perhaps - but any American (from the USA) who runs road races learns pdq what 5K and 10K are and what they feel like - and learns to think about those distances in kms. Many also figure out that 5 miles are roughly 8K. (The abbreviated version with an upper case K is usual for road races).Maybe true for the majority of Americans (that is, of course, referring to United Statesians), who are not used to the metric system.
K *is* the unit.You are right. When people refer to the Camino as being 800k long, their error is in using the wrong abbreviation for kilometer. The correct short form is ''km", for 1000 m. You need to deduce that 800k must mean 800 km, because 800k otherwise would have no units and we would have to ask "800k what?"
England / Inglaterra / Angleterre is a pars pro toto for both the UK or Great Britain in numerous other languages than English - at least in the few that I knowOooooo. Good thing you'd say that out of earshot.Scotland, Wales, and England are seriously different.
It tried to point out, with an attempt at humour but not very successfully, to consider one's target audience in communication and not be a wiseassGeez, I wouldn't! Much as I like my Western brethren, that's as bad as calling a Kiwi an Aussie! The Scot's have a separate Parliament for a damn good reason - they do not consider themselves English.
You make a good point. In English I would say that I participated in a "twenty kay run" yesterday but I would not say the equivalent in the other languages I know. There I would say Kilometer, kilomètres, kilometros. We are taught the standard SI abbreviations at primary school: km, dm, cm, mm. Nobody would use k, d, c or m instead. I have only ever seen k as an abbreviation for kilometres/kilometers on this forum in some posters' comments.Perhaps - but any American (from the USA) who runs road races learns pdq what 5K and 10K are and what they feel like - and learns to think about those distances in kms. Many also figure out that 5 miles are roughly 8K. (The abbreviated version with an upper case K is usual for road races).
I scrolled through the 100+ comments and I think that your post is one of the few that made an attempt at answering the OP's invitation.There's quite a list of potential subheadings too:
Dormitory: noise/quiet time, light, packing, Rucksacks, alarms etc
Kitchen : fridges, dishes...
Bathroom (shower, toilet, teeth, shaving)
Washing: sink, machines, line, driers
Plus of course you could also cover factors outside the albergue:
Toileting (on trail)
Greeting/ordering etiquette in bars and cafes
Use of toilets in a bar/cafe
Rucksack " " "
Poles (tips!)
And that's just off the top of my head, I'm sure others will have many more ideas.
Not sure if this falls under etiquette but it’s a nice thing to use the upper bunk if you are able to / don’t mind / arrive early and leave the lower bunk for the ones that arrive later (and might be much more exhausted than you).
On our recent Camino Primitivo the municipals would fill up towards the end of the day and the last arriving strugglers where always very happy to find lower bunks available and the upper bunks occupied by younger / fitter pilgrims that don’t mind climbing up the steps.
Now that’s quite a thought! Imposed perhaps during busy periods. No one is ever going to complain if you charge less!I always think there should be two tier pricing, where logistically possible. I would happily pay say €5 extra for a lower bunk. I think it’s a revenue opportunity that hostel owners are missing.
Well I’m a tightwad and would pay €5 additional for a lower bunk! So if the pricing was €12 a bunk, I was wouid happily pay €17. Adds some complexity but am always surprised the big hostel players in Europe (A & O, Menninger) don’t do it, or at least trial it!Now that’s quite a thought! Imposed perhaps during busy periods. No one is ever going to complain if you charge less!
In the donarivos, you can always feel free to donate more when you get a lower bunk.Well I’m a tightwad and would pay €5 additional for a lower bunk! So if the pricing was €12 a bunk, I was wouid happily pay €17. Adds some complexity but am always surprised the big hostel players in Europe (A & O, Menninger) don’t do it, or at least trial it!
Of course yes but I am talking the guarantee of a lower bunk, rather than paying more if you happen to get one.In the donarivos, you can always feel free to donate more when you get a lower bunk.
In the donativos, feel free to pay more if you can afford it.Of course yes but I am talking the guarantee of a lower bunk, rather than paying more if you happen to get one.
One doesn't pay in a donativo, one offers, donates, gives - or whatever word you prefer for freely (and hopefully generously) donating for whatever you've received. It's a very different economy than the contractual one we're used to.Of course yes but I am talking the guarantee of a lower bunk, rather than paying more if you happen to get one.
I would of course. But I would be happy to offer that upfront as a lower bunk is imporant and sadly wishful thinking for me. Just a thought. I paid €7 for a more advanced seat on a flight last night. I didn’t want bulkhead or exit row just a bit futher forward.In the donativos, feel free to pay more if you can afford it.
Sure I wasn’t expressly talking donativos. That’s a different game. Just something that would help me and offer some extra revenue.One doesn't pay in a donativo, one offers, donates, gives - or whatever word you prefer for freely (and hopefully generously) donating for whatever you've received. It's a very different economy than the contractual one we're used to.
Not a bad idea. Just so it doesn't lead us down the slippery slope of paying extra for everything, like airlines do.Just something that would help me and offer some extra revenue.
Hmmm, what would Mike O'Leary do in this situation...Not a bad idea. Just so it doesn't lead us down the slippery slope of paying extra for everything, like airlines do.
Not a bad idea. Just so it doesn't lead us down the slippery slope of paying extra for everything, like airlines do.
More silly Canadians!! We really should be more serious........In the past few months I have been introduced to The Arrogant Worms. I listened to this song just last week. Sounds apposite...
I think that's part of the problem, that many think of 'etiquette' the way you've mentioned. (And it is of course one example of the meaning). Let's face it, it is an old-fashioned word in this day and age.In most cases, I think of etiquette as formal, like manners for high society. Like…how to set and use table settings for a seven-course meal. How to dance a waltz. When to wear white gloves. When to remove a top-hat. Pretty far from most Camino experiences, which gives the word a nice creative tension here.
Like “good manners,” maybe “etiquette” really comes down to the same thing in any context - being courteous, making the other people around you comfortable. Perhaps pilgrim etiquette even has its analogues to more formal versions. Like…offering a bottom bunk becomes akin to offering a seat. Leaving no trace of TP or wipes, akin to placing your used napkin properly when leaving the dinner table. Avoiding using strong scents or ointments in the dorm, akin to not wearing too much perfume or cologne.
Great analogies. True pilgrim etiquette.Perhaps pilgrim etiquette even has its analogues to more formal versions. Like…offering a bottom bunk becomes akin to offering a seat. Leaving no trace of TP or wipes, akin to placing your used napkin properly when leaving the dinner table. Avoiding using strong scents or ointments in the dorm, akin to not wearing too much perfume or cologne.
In my experience most hostels have similar rules although I must say that when I was managing a hostel they were somewhat more stringent than these. Bar the fish rule!I just saw this at the hostel I am currently staying at (non Camino) - no fish, and booze is ok but not too much! Actually can’t believe there has not been a big debate about cooking fish on here. I love fish but the smell!!! Or maybe I missed it! View attachment 171488
Sorry, but I couldn't do that in my head, but £1 3s 4d (for a long cwt, not a short one!) and using the Canadian standard weight for a bushel of“If a farmer bought 3 bushels of wheat for £1..17s..6d, how much would it have cost him if he’d bought a cwt?” Now you know why Britain abandoned the imperial system and decimalised its currency back in the 70s. And why my generation (the ones that didn’t die before we got old) are very good at doing sums in our head.
Indeed. I think most rules go unspoken-but the fish one did need spelling out as loads of folks do cook fish in hostels! Not as much as Pasta though! I always feel very inadequate in hostels as they alway seem to attach good cooks and guitar players!In my experience most hostels have similar rules although I must say that when I was managing a hostel they were somewhat more stringent than these. Bar the fish rule!
Like you I have a love/ hate relationship with fish, and it's smell.
Another smell that is all pervasive is curry. A Fijian Indian acquaintance of mine had a cook station inside his garage because he did not like the smell throughout his entire house. In Fiji of course the kitchen area is normally completely separate, so I understand where he was coming from.
The best smells I ever came across was in a hostel immediately above a bakery in Canada. Oh my gosh, I woke up hungry every morning!
The favourite rule that I ever came across in a hostel was:
"Violence in any form will result in your immediate expulsion from the hostel with extreme prejudice. The management will not be responsible for your medical bills or funeral costs".
A little beyond 'good etiquette', of course...
TM22, are the hostels you have frequented over the years with all the smelly fish cooking been located on or near oceans?I think most rules go unspoken-but the fish one did need spelling out as loads of folks do cook fish in hostels!
I like your two "old adages" and have sometimes found them to be true myself over the years when traveling/vacationing.Well I am a firm believer in the old adage ‘only eat fish when you can see the sea’ although it can complicate my other adage around restaurant food ‘the better the view, the worse the food’.
So I do compromise my principals if there is money to be saved, and to be fair I am not too much of a fish connoisseur, though I love it. I bought a can of tuna last night and ate it in my room last night ( before I saw the rules on eating in the room, and no fish whatsoever, though that wouldn’t stand up in a court of law!).
Wow thank you! Very kind and will hold you to that! The Emerald Isle is very near the top of my travel list. Both my parents were born there but have only been a couple of times… it just hasn’t happened and daftly get attracted by places further away! A friend and I are looking to hire a camper van and get around a bit!!For @TravellingMan22 : if you ever hit the Emerald Isle, let me know. I use a wonderful fish shop. Will be delighted to poach you some salmon, or simply put down a few rollmops, or roast a bit of hake... take care.
Edit: so sorry, this is way off the OP!
Yes I am normally fairly adherent esp. as the folks here are so nice. It will be pasta in the common area tonight!I like your two "old adages" and have sometimes found them to be true myself over the years when traveling/vacationing.
Rather funny that you broke two of the hostels rules before you realized what you'd done.
On topic: A title.…as I was saying, as I walked I thought up some points for an etiquette guide. Not wanting to direct your thinking any further, I thought I’d simply ask what you would include in such a guide!
On topic: Certainly.And would you give me permission to use your ideas?
Off topic: I'm hoping that you miss a night's sleep figuring out how to classify this post Guy.I ... had the brightidea to graph the 156 replies posted to date...making my own assumptions as to whether an individual reply was on/off topic.
I do like your sense of humour. Off topic?I have been lurking absolutely mesmerized by this entertaining thread for a while. Disclaimer: I do NOT intend to offend and well my sense of humour is what it is...hopefully your funny bone is in some way tickled! Also I have been in touch with the OP and have her permission to go off topic. Note I had to Google OP to find out what this means...
Ok my hypothesis was that this thread got a touch off topic early and fast however this was simply an impression. I have been assistingRachael (OP) with a few graphs as she winds her way merrily along the Camino Frances...by the way her Blog is great fun. I then had the bright idea to graph the 156 replies posted to date...making my own assumptions as to whether an individual reply was on/off topic.
Attached are the results to date...show a VERY fast positive start to being On Topic...for the first 3 replies (note the first was Rachael’s which was considered on topic...one of her later posts was considered off topic) and then has stayed consistently in the 80%+ range Off topic. Remember it’s just a graph for fun!
Have a great day!
View attachment 171526
As an American who's traveled extensively, I'll say that I've noticed saying "americana" tends to strike a chord more often with Latinos than Spaniards, and it makes sense. In English we don't have a word for "United Statesian" but it exists in Spanish, and folk from Latin America are completely in the right to point out that they are also "americanos", so it can come off as a bit arrogant for someone from the US claiming the term "americano" as just their own country.Language etiquette: Being from the US, I learned to stop calling myself an American when trying to speak Spanish on the Camino. I did not know how to make Estados Unidos into an adjective, so americana was the only thing I could think of. I was corrected several times, as America is only a country and not even a single continent. It probably sounded arrogant, and I had no idea, so now I say something like norteamericana to avoid seeming rude. I still can't actually pronounce estadounidense but that would be another option.
Edit: It seems safe to disregard this advice, per many comments below.
I thought I would try to be autonomous and look up the abbreviation, but really, I am none the wiser. What does it mean?As an American who's traveled extensively, I'll say that I've noticed saying "americana" tends to strike a chord more often with Latinos than Spaniards, and it makes sense. In English we don't have a word for "United Statesian" but it exists in Spanish, and folk from Latin America are completely in the right to point out that they are also "americanos", so it can come off as a bit arrogant for someone from the US claiming the term "americano" as just their own country.
When I lived in Chile I quickly learned to use "estadounidense", but now that I'm living in Spain, I've noticed that Spaniards tend to say "americano" or "norte americano" when referring to someone from the United States or Canada, and they'll use specific countries or "latino" for everywhere else, regardless of if it's actually correct or not. To avoid any confusion or hurt feelings, I usually say "Soy de Estados Unidos" or "I'm from the United States".
TLDR: When speaking in Spanish, try to make an effort to use the correct terminology. When speaking in English, do what you want.
Effectively, it means 'to sum it up', or 'in short'.I thought I would try to be autonomous and look up the abbreviation, but really, I am none the wiser. What does it mean?
TLDR
1. abbreviation for too long; didn't read: used to comment on something that…dictionary.cambridge.org
Interesting. In the USofA for the last ten+ years I hear family and friends say "to make a long story short", but it never is and they go on and on.Effectively, it means 'to sum it up', or 'in short'.
It's often used on social media when people sum up their thoughts on a complicated subject.
Sorry, it just means: "in summary" and then it gives a brief summary of what was just said.I thought I would try to be autonomous and look up the abbreviation, but really, I am none the wiser. What does it mean?
TLDR
1. abbreviation for too long; didn't read: used to comment on something that…dictionary.cambridge.org
What does it mean?
It is one of my favourite acronyms, particularly with the punctuation.TL;DR
SameIt is one of my favourite acronyms, particularly with the punctuation.
The semi-colon sort of acts like a wink and a smile doesn't it? And the whole expression agrees with that; "I'm with you. I didn't do my best."It is one of my favourite acronyms, particularly with the punctuation.
Really? How do you pronounce it?It is one of my favourite acronyms, particularly with the punctuation.
I pronounce it tee-el-dee-ar.Really? How do you pronounce it?
It is one of my favourite acronyms, particularly with the punctuation.
Really? How do you pronounce it?
Yes. Technically TL;DR is an initialism. The Center for Disease Control has an explanation (but with examples for its employees).I pronounce it tee-el-dee-ar.
Camino etiquette has gone out the window with all the 'plastic pilgrims'. I'm on my 7th Camino and it's disgusting. They have all the gear and no idea, they're ignorant and have'nt got a clue. I'm so glad I experienced the true pilgrimage from 2015 - 2019.As I walked to Calzadilla de la Cueza today (long straight road), probably prompted by noisy torch-bearing pilgrims who got up at 4:20am (5 o’clock is bad enough, but seriously? We couldn’t leave until 6 so what were they going to do for an hour and a half? Oh, that’s right, rustle plastic bags lol)
…as I was saying, as I walked I thought up some points for an etiquette guide. Not wanting to direct your thinking any further, I thought I’d simply ask what you would include in such a guide! And would you give me permission to use your ideas?
It is one of my favourite acronyms
Really? How do you pronounce it?
Well, it is most certainly my favourite inirialism.Technically TL;DR is an initialism.
Buen camino to you, too.Camino etiquette has gone out the window with all the 'plastic pilgrims'. I'm on my 7th Camino and it's disgusting. They have all the gear and no idea, they're ignorant and have'nt got a clue. I'm so glad I experienced the true pilgrimage from 2015 - 2019.
I really don’t want to get kicked off the Camino ForumIf we are not careful @GuyA will be graphing all the different directions this thread has taken!
I've yet to meet a plastic pilgrim. Do they look anything like this?Camino etiquette has gone out the window with all the 'plastic pilgrims'. I'm on my 7th Camino and it's disgusting. They have all the gear and no idea, they're ignorant and have'nt got a clue. I'm so glad I experienced the true pilgrimage from 2015 - 2019.
Does Ivar sell these in his store?
A few years ago there was a touring display of Playmobil Camino characters.Does Ivar sell these in his store?
I missed seeing it at the time, so thanks for sharing this link from @natefaith...love those pics! So cute and clever!A few years ago there was a touring display of Playmobil Camino characters.
So much for TLA.Yes. Technically TL;DR is an initialism. The Center for Disease Control has an explanation (but with examples for its employees).
An abbreviation is a truncated word; an acronym is made up of parts of the phrase it stands for and is pronounced as a word (ELISA, AIDS, GABA); an initialism is an acronym that is pronounced as individual letters (DNA, RT-PCR).
No, the red light doesn’t help. It helps the wearer not lose night vision. Try it in a darkened room, have someone point it at you. Sorry, I’ve just had 43 days on the Camino with red lights flashing around the room like a Disco. Headlamps are bright and focused, red or not.Note that Decathlon, for instance, sells red light headlamp. When you have to get up during the night, it helps avoiding waking up the others.
I know what it’s like to be woken up in the middle of the night. I’m a very light sleeper. The faintest light (even with my eye mask puesto), the slightest noise and bingo! Wide awake and ready to go. It’s a curse, I tell you. So, with that in mind and me being the courteous type, what’s the answer when you just gotta go to the bathroom at 2AM? Hold your headlamp light or cellfone light towards the floor so as not to disturb others? Albergue baños don’t have little night lights in them or we would’ve heard, no? Nor in the hallway en route to the destination. Maybe do a practice walk from your bunk to the bathroom b4 lights out, mentally mapping out turns and obstacles on the way (No, the red light doesn’t help. It helps the wearer not lose night vision. Try it in a darkened room, have someone point it at you. Sorry, I’ve just had 43 days on the Camino with red lights flashing around the room like a Disco. Headlamps are bright and focused, red or not.
If you want to find a blanket at 1 AM you turn on the overheads of course. The switch was on the other side of the bunk room but I was there in seconds, turned the lights off, spoke a few words and the switch wasn't touched again.So, with that in mind and me being the courteous type, what’s the answer when you just gotta go to the bathroom at 2AM? Hold your headlamp light or cellfone light towards the floor so as not to disturb others?
I'm like you, easily woken, instantly alert. So personally I carry a tiny keychain torch, put it in my hand with just enough light peeking out between my fingers to see. Kept under my pillow at night, easy to find, and minimises sleep disruption to others like us.I know what it’s like to be woken up in the middle of the night. I’m a very light sleeper. The faintest light (even with my eye mask puesto), the slightest noise and bingo! Wide awake and ready to go. It’s a curse, I tell you. So, with that in mind and me being the courteous type, what’s the answer when you just gotta go to the bathroom at 2AM? Hold your headlamp light or cellfone light towards the floor so as not to disturb others? Albergue baños don’t have little night lights in them or we would’ve heard, no? Nor in the hallway en route to the destination. Maybe do a practice walk from your bunk to the bathroom b4 lights out, mentally mapping out turns and obstacles on the way () and al revés on the return…
I often have done the same. Those miniscule lights are useful and perfect for albergue life.I'm like you, easily woken, instantly alert. So personally I carry a tiny keychain torch, put it in my hand with just enough light peeking out between my fingers to see. Kept under my pillow at night, easy to find, and minimises sleep disruption to others like us.
I'm like you, easily woken, instantly alert. So personally I carry a tiny keychain torch, put it in my hand with just enough light peeking out between my fingers to see. Kept under my pillow at night, easy to find, and minimises sleep disruption to others like us.
Thank you both for that way to simple solutionI often have done the same. Those miniscule lights are useful and perfect for albergue life.
P.S. To add, I use mine on an old shoelace to easily find and grab it under my pillow in the dark.
If we put that in the Helpful Hints part of The Pilgrim’s Guide to Etiquette the lightweight brigade will be up in arms that you are taking a single use object (torch) when you could just use your phone….and unless you are using a shoelace from your shoe, you’re adding MORE unnecessary weight!I often have done the same. Those miniscule lights are useful and perfect for albergue life.
P.S. To add, I use mine on an old shoelace to easily find and grab it under my pillow in the dark.
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