The pilgrim next to you just had a heart attack?

[David]

Hi - I am putting this up as we have recently had pilgrims suffering heart attacks and you - yes, you! - could save their life ..
the first thing that will happen to you, and the people around you is almost nothing. People get scared, they don't know what to do, so they tend to do nothing - or even worse, try to get the person onto their feet ...

.. so the first thing to do is to react, get in there - what is the worst you can do? They will die without you so respond, be afraid later ...

First check your own safety - such things as live electricity and the casualty lying in a pool of water - check that it is safe for you.
Next get down to their face, shake them, call to them - see if they are responsive .. check to see if they are breathing, or breathing very badly - gasping is not breathing properly! put your cheek against their mouth, look for chest movement - take no longer than ten seconds.
If they have been eating check that this is a heart attack and not something stuck in their throat (they will go red and be trying to breathe - it really looks different from a heart attack) - you would have seen them go down or people nearby would have .. so check that .. if they are breathing check the airway is clear and put them in the recovery position (google how to do those things).
If not, then ....

Then, well, now is the time to try and save their life. The ideal is repetitive chest pressure (cpr) interleaved with 'rescue breaths' but if not trained in rescue breaths cpr alone is fine.

What you are doing here is making the heart pump so that the brain is oxygenated and when the rescue services arrive there is still a working brain, it isn't damaged - and, with luck, you may restore heart action and they will survive - but essentially it is keeping those systems going until help arrives - it is First Aid.

Do try and conquer your fear - it is better to try and do it wrong than not try at all - as you do the compressions get someone else to call the emergency services - if alone shout for help, then do them for thirty seconds, stop and phone, and then start again - the cpr is more important than the call if it is taking a while .. keep the line open, do some more cpr then talk then more cpr, etc - you must continue doing them until help comes.

I was trained years ago to do it to the song Nellie The Elephant beat running in my head - but now (appropriately enough) you can do it to Staying Alive!!
below is an instructional video - it is short, it is funny, and it is true - so please do watch it.

Afterwards, whether the casualty survives or not, expect to become emotional and even weepy, this is normal and it passes - whatever the result you have done a great thing.
And - St John Ambulance and the Red Cross first aid training courses take just one day and are cheap as chips. They will give you the training and confidence to step in and help where all others stand frozen - do take a course, get your whole family involved - do it .. please ...

Here the video - enjoy!! and Buen Camino - to us all.

 

[peregrina2000]

This is such great advice. A real public service David.

I once was at a youth soccer game years ago when the grandfather of one of the players collapsed. There was a nurse there who gave CPR till the ambulance arrived and saved the man's life. She broke down in tears and explained that though she had given CPR hundreds of times at the hospital, by the time the patient arrived at the hospital it was already too late. This was the first time in her career that she had actually saved a life.

I am hopeful that I would be brave enough to try it if necessary -- or that someone would be brave enough to try it on me if I were on the floor. Thanks, buen camino, Laurie

 

[MTtoCamino]

Good job David! I work in a Hearth Cath lab, I also have heart disease. That said if I am walking the Camino & someone wants to bring me back, well damn it now I have to put it in big letters don't use " David's bring me back to life training" my forehead is just not that large.

 

[martin1ws]

Thanks for the video.

One additional point: In Spain the phone number is 112.

 

[Jersey]

I have taken a CPR course. Have never had to put it to use.
Thank God.
Our instructor told us, if the person is already dead, don’t be afraid.
You can’t do anymore harm.

 

[domigee]

My bestest friend died of cardiac arrest, not so long ago. I still wish I had been there.

 

[Deleted member 43985]

Great post, David! Thanks for the important information.

I ran straight out to practice it but didn't go so well... evidently if you don't ask the waitress first you get told you're not allowed back in that restaurant...

 

[natefaith]

Great video, @David. Thanks for sharing and helping us feel more confident. !

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Thank you David.

I want to add two other things. First CPR should be done with a firm surface under the victim. If the attack happens in an albergue this means that CPR should be done on the floor, not on a mattress.

Second, a heart attack may not knock someone down. They could be complaining of chest pains or even pains elsewhere. Call the emergency number if you think it may be a heart attack. Ask if they have had an attack before and have medicine. Help them take it. Have them chew a full strength aspirin and swallow it. Preferably, even if it is chewed, it should be an uncoated aspirin. A study reported by Harvard showed that an aspirin taken with a drink of water got an amount of the active ingredient into the blood in 12 minutes what a chewed aspirin got in 8 minutes.

For more on a heart attack that does not immediately result in a cardiac arrest see http://www.sja.org.uk/sja/first-aid-advice/heart/heart-attack.aspx

 

[KinkyOne]

My father had a minor heart attack years ago. I guess he was saved by taking an Aspirin in the morning that day because he thought he was getting a flu. That diluted his blood. And my mom saw him all white in the face and hands speaking of the pain in his left arm which is common sign of the oncoming heart problem.

I don't know how many CPR courses does people in other countries have but over here we used to take exams in elementary school and later when getting the driving licence. So I could say almost everyone can do CPR but the stats says that people are afraid to do it. As already mentioned you can do no harm even if you brake breastbone during heart massage, it will heal.

Thanks for the rest, David!!!

 

[Bala]

Thank you, David, for this excellent post, your reassuring words to "just do it!" A and the great video. Very, very informative. Very helpful. Hopefully, none of us will ever need to do this. But if we do, we do. Better prepared than sorry.

 

[MTtoCamino]

Ahrg I have decided to get a hat printed. You all are giving out too good of info. If you start recommending to the Alburgues to look into getting free defibulators from Phillips or Zoll I think you have crossed the line. A person has a hard time dying naturally... With folks thinking they have to help.

 

[Older Guy]

My first suggestion, as someone who is required by regulations to have periodic First Aid, CPR and AED( Artificial Electric DeFib) training, is that you take a course. I don't know the laws in Spain, but in many places, if you are trained and performing within your training you will be protected from litigation under Good Samaritan laws.

If you do CPR properly, you will likely break chest bones. It is far better to do this and have the person live, but CPR is not without potential negative consequences.

My second suggestion is have someone else, not you, if you are administering CPR, IMMEDIATELY make a cell phone call for a medical response team or public safety. They will have AED's or defibulators and if they get there quickly enough that can improve survival odds greatly. Also if you are anywhere near a village, or industrial plant, send someone to that location as there may be an AED or medical personnel there.

I agree that you should perform CPR, but the cardinal rule is that once you start CPR, you must never stop until you are relieved by more experienced medically trained personnel. In addition to my first aid, CPR and AED training for my job, I have taken mountaineering first aid/CPR training. Typically, in remote locations that cardinal rule means that you are going to have to find one to two "others" who will spell you until help arrives. On remote climbs it can take 6 to 12 hours for rescue teams to arrive. The Camino will probably not take that long as most villages are at most 10 km or less apart. If you are near a road someone should stand by the road to direct medical personnel to the victim once they arrive.

P.S. When I did my Camino, I took a really good first aid kit with me that included battle dressings and blood clot sponge and a thing you put over the victims mouth if you do artificial respiration (no longer part of the US Red Cross CPR recommended system).

 

[Jersey]

I’ll add another 2 cents to my previous post.
CPR on young children and infants is slightly different
I won’t offer advise except to take a course.
Also remember CPR by itself very very rarely actually gets the person breathing. It’s a bridge till someone gets there with a defibrillator

 

[C clearly]

the cardinal rule is that once you start CPR, you must never stop until you are relieved by more experienced medically trained personnel.

Why is that?

 

[Older Guy]

The reason you never stop until relieved by medically trained personnel, is you never know it they would have lived. If you stop, you know they will not live and to some (family member) they may blame you for the death.

There will likely be an autopsy if they die. If you stop, your "stopping" or "inaction" could be a fact the person died. In some litigious places that could place you at great risk.

It is a good rule both from your own ability to sleep well at night and from a personal protection basis. Again, Good Samaritan rules generally assume you will perform as you were trained. All the training I have had said don't stop until relieved.

 

[Icacos]

The reason you never stop until relieved by medically trained personnel, is you never know it they would have lived. If you stop, you know they will not live and to some (family member) they may blame you for the death.

There will likely be an autopsy if they die. If you stop, your "stopping" or "inaction" could be a fact the person died. In some litigious places that could place you at great risk.

It is a good rule both from your own ability to sleep well at night and from a personal protection basis. Again, Good Samaritan rules generally assume you will perform as you were trained. All the training I have had said don't stop until relieved.

I think I didn't fully understand this until someone spelled it out to me. The ongoing CPR maintains the blood flow / oxygen to the brain. Stop the CPR, the blood flow ceases, the brain is starved of oxygen and death ensues. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Jersey]

Why is that?

To simplify it and I’m no expert but CPR is pretty much keeping the blood flowing to vital organs and the blood pressure high enough so that when the person actually receives the proper medical care, they might revive and hopefully survive. Anyone that can explain this better than I , please do

 

[Jersey]

I think I didn't fully understand this until someone spelled it out to me. The ongoing CPR maintains the blood flow / oxygen to the brain. Stop the CPR, the blood flow ceases, the brain is starved of oxygen and death ensues. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

We both posted this the same minute lol

 

[Robo]

Great advice David. Pat and I are booking into a 1st Aid Course next month!

 

[Christian Hiriart]

Great video, thanks for sharing.

 

[C clearly]

the cardinal rule is that once you start CPR, you must never stop until you are relieved by more experienced medically trained personnel.

To simplify it and I’m no expert but CPR is pretty much keeping the blood flowing to vital organs and the blood pressure high enough so that when the person actually receives the proper medical care, they might revive and hopefully survive.

I get that, but wondered why the advice was prefaced with "once you have started," as if you might consider not starting if you don't think you are going to be relieved. The answer might relate to liability and good samaritan concerns, but I was curious if there was a medical reason.

 

[susanawee]

Thank you for the above advice David.....I will share this across my face book groups as well as this is something which we all should be aware of......susanawee.

 

[Older Guy]

You guys are correct in that CPR is mostly to keep blood and oxygen flowing to vital organs or until heart rhythms start again. But that is based on the assumption that the person is capable of living again or not too much tissue death has occurred such that their brain can get their heart to pump again. For some, even with CPR, the heart cannot be restarted in a hospital.

The people I know who have performed CPR without an AED (being quickly used) have had more people die than live. The people I am thinking of teach CPR/AED so they are very good at it.

https://www.verywell.com/when-do-i-stop-cpr-1298425

 

[KinkyOne]

If you don't do anything and just watching by law you are more liable than try to do something and not succeed. At least over here.
So at least ask the people who might know the procedure (same with open wounds etc.) but are kind of in a shock and can't act.
I'm no expert but my climbing friend died in my lap and I wasn't able to do anything in that moment. You don't want to carry such an experience along the way!

 

[Jersey]

I get that, but wondered why the advice was prefaced with "once you have started," as if you might consider not starting if you don't think you are going to be relieved. The answer might relate to liability and good samaritan concerns, but I was curious if there was a medical reason.

If you stop before proper medical care arrives they pretty much will stay dead or have brain damage. I can’t imagine any liability if you just can’t go on because of exhaustion.
This is a great post. I can’t imagine any pilgrim reading it and not taking a CPR class.

 

[Jersey]

Great post, David! Thanks for the important information.

I ran straight out to practice it but didn't go so well... evidently if you don't ask the waitress first you get told you're not allowed back in that restaurant...

Have had the same problem with a few barmaids over the years lol

 

[NicP]

I get that, but wondered why the advice was prefaced with "once you have started," as if you might consider not starting if you don't think you are going to be relieved. The answer might relate to liability and good samaritan concerns, but I was curious if there was a medical reason.

You might not start CPR if you come across a person who is clearly dead and has been dead for some time (i.e. they are cool / cold), as opposed to somebody whom you witness collapsing in front of you. If somebody has been dead long enough to be cold, you aren't going to revive them with CPR, no matter what!

I agree with the advice others have already given - its a good thing for absolutely everybody to do a basic first aide course. It saves you from wondering "what if".

Ahrg I have decided to get a hat printed. You all are giving out too good of info. If you start recommending to the Alburgues to look into getting free defibulators from Phillips or Zoll I think you have crossed the line. A person has a hard time dying naturally... With folks thinking they have to help.

I did read somewhere that people have resorted to putting a tattoo of "Not for CPR" across their chest....

@David - in addition to "Nellie the Elephant" and "Staying Alive", apparently Queen's "Another One Bites the Dust" is also at the appropriate rate!

 

[Jersey]

You might not start CPR if you come across a person who is clearly dead and has been dead for some time (i.e. they are cool / cold), as opposed to somebody whom you witness collapsing in front of you. If somebody has been dead long enough to be cold, you aren't going to revive them with CPR, no matter what!

I agree with the advice others have already given - its a good thing for absolutely everybody to do a basic first aide course. It saves you from wondering "what if".


I did read somewhere that people have resorted to putting a tattoo of "Not for CPR" across their chest....

@David - in addition to "Nellie the Elephant" and "Staying Alive", apparently Queen's "Another One Bites the Dust" is also at the appropriate rate!

Point well taken. CPR very rarely revives anyone. It’s just a bridge.
Also if you are an organ donor? Be aware they do not harvest organs from people that are dead. God bless the people that donate organs but be aware they do not use anesthesia on organ donors.
( obviously alive donors such as kidney donors are put under )

 

[yaying]

if you are trained and performing within your training you will be protected from litigation under Good Samaritan laws.

I reside now a place and my first witnessed troubled me for so many sleepless nights acting as good samaritan.I came from a country even destructing (traces for police investigation) is not very big issue (you will be asked as a witness but you will not felt interrogated as a suspect) when your trying to help someone....honestly because of that experienced i always prayed if possible not to experience the same... 'you can't do anymore harm' yes indeed but after i realized i was the one being harm with harsh process of interrogation ... though i really pray not to, but who am i to say never to do it again if facing the same...

 

[William Garza]

Sometimes you try your damndest and its not enough
Jan of this year a fellow i had just talked to less than 5 min before had an MI
A"widowmaker"
I broke out the window of his pickup and laid him on the floor and started CPR along with an employee.
We worked on him for 15 min or so until ambulance arrived.

When i went to get the police report they told me he was DOA and that mist likely was passed before we worked on him.

I live with the guilt of having tried..and failed.
Be prepared to lose them
Harden yourself to that fact and fight as hard as you can to save them.

They dont tell you this in CPR class
This was the second time, the first was more successfull.

I didnt know him...would i do it again?
I ask that because some folks dint want the onus..or the responsibilities involved...

Would i do it again?
Absolutely.

Be blessed Pilgrim on the Way

 

[David]

I have had the same, William G, did my best, he 'came back' twice but eventually left .. the ambulance went to the wrong place so I had to continue for over half an hour, knowing that by then he was dead and gone, including rescue breaths - it hurt me a lot emotionally, cried like a babe, still feel guilty that I couldn't save him - but the alternative, not helping at all? I would do it again in a heartbeat - I will not stand back or walk by, ever.

It really comes down to helping someone rather than not. There is much more chance of survival if rescue breaths are also used - the cpr is an emergency measure to keep the heart 'pumping' until trained ambulance people arrive with good equipment and take over.
The success rate is low, of course it is - that person didn't have a heart attack for no reason - but it can save life ... and what is the alternative? Certain death, so there is no option but to try.

As for litigation - what relative would even think about litigating against someone who tried to help??? We have too much of this fear of litigation - it is all fear and this fear, these fears, they reduce our humanity .. and eventually we become the ones who walk past on the other side rather than the Samaritan who stops and helps - and which would we rather be?

 

[William Garza]

I was impressed at an early age that there is no walking by.
A childhood friend had a Grand Mal seizure
Other children stood around laughing
That moved me enough to grab a boy and ahhh..made him decide that getting an,adult was better than facing me.

She opened her eyes and looked at me sadly after she was done...
Pierced my soul it did.
Thats why i cant walk by..

 

[Saint Mike II]

Hola @David , at the risk of repeating my pilgrim colleagues "well done" my amigo. Whilst not sure I will eventually be a hospitalero but I did recently renew my senior first aid certificate including CPR. In fact our training officer has taken our email addresses to ensure we do our renewal in 12 months. Mouth 2 mouth (rebreathed air) is not necessary, the CPR will be sufficient until the paramedics arrive & take over. If you get tired ask someone to take over, you can even instruct them as you rest. A great service and necessary skill.

 

[Irish Bernie]

As a trauma nurse of 30 years just hope yer sitting next to me and i'm sober,good luck with the latter lol.

 

[Saint Mike II]

I have had the same, William G, did my best, he 'came back' twice but eventually left .. the ambulance went to the wrong place so I had to continue for over half an hour, knowing that by then he was dead and gone, including rescue breaths - it hurt me a lot emotionally, cried like a babe, still feel guilty that I couldn't save him - but the alternative, not helping at all? I would do it again in a heartbeat - I will not stand back or walk by, ever. ..

As for litigation - what relative would even think about litigating against someone who tried to help??? We have too much of this fear of litigation - it is all fear and this fear, these fears, they reduce our humanity .. and eventually we become the ones who walk past on the other side rather than the Samaritan who stops and helps - and which would we rather be?

David you are correct about the litigation. Provided you provide assistance to the level of your training,. If the patient is unable to respond provide appropriate assistance; if patient is conscious ask permission from the patient or their responsible adult you are protected, ( or at least that is the situation in Oz, as advised during training)! Cheers

 

[t2andreo]

This is an OUTSTANDING thread! Thank you all for contributing.

To relate a personal aside, on the advice of my personal physician, I carry a travel packet (one of the small envelopes) of plain aspirin that contains 4 - 325 mg Bayer brand plain aspirin in my front right pocket AT ALL TIMES while on Camino. I replace the packet for each Camino. If walking or tagging along with a group, I usually mention this fact to others, just so they know.

I do not have a heart condition, but my doctor's advice was that if I ever felt myself with radiating chest pain, and a gripping feeling in my upper chest or shoulders, I should immediately CHEW two of the aspirin and leave them visible to any first responder, should I collapse. The other two aspirin are available as needed.

I was also told that, if I was alert when I chewed the first two aspirins, I should summon nearby assistance, and place the emergency call to 112 / 911, leaving the line open. Smart phones with a speaker button are good for this.

As others have noted, this is a good field-expedient blood dilution / thinning method, until you can get to proper medical help with anticoagulant infusion capability.

I have a CPR certification and have had first-aid training. But the aspirin can't hurt and might help just enough to reduce the damage from any blood clot.

I hope this helps.

 

[David]

Totally agree, Andreo - Aspirin is in my 'grab it now' section of my first aid kit!!

 

[sunwanderer]

As an FYI...

In addition to the training described above, I have taken a 1 day "Pet Rescue / CPR" course.

During Katrina, rescuers were not allowed to accept pets along with the people they were rescuing. Because many people wouldn't leave without their pets, some ended up dying.

As a result, many rescue organizations changed their rules to allow pets to accompany people during rescues. Training was developed so that rescuers would be able to handle various animals, and would be able to provide first aid & CPR if needed.

Here is an example: Sugar

 

[Panama Francis]

Sometimes you try your damndest and its not enough
Jan of this year a fellow i had just talked to less than 5 min before had an MI
A"widowmaker"
I broke out the window of his pickup and laid him on the floor and started CPR along with an employee.
We worked on him for 15 min or so until ambulance arrived.

When i went to get the police report they told me he was DOA and that mist likely was passed before we worked on him.

I live with the guilt of having tried..and failed.
Be prepared to lose them
Harden yourself to that fact and fight as hard as you can to save them.

They dont tell you this in CPR class
This was the second time, the first was more successfull.

I didnt know him...would i do it again?
I ask that because some folks dint want the onus..or the responsibilities involved...

Would i do it again?
Absolutely.

Be blessed Pilgrim on the Way

Your post brought tears to my eyes. Thank you for doing your best and prayers for your loss.

 

[Panama Francis]

Thanks to everyone for such good advice and guidance. I am walking the Camino Frances right now and have been saddened by the memorials along the Way to pilgrims who died. I'm also concerned about the many folks I room with and walk by. I pray that I could respond in the best way possible if faced with this awful situation. Blessing to everyone!

 

[peregrina2000]

Though I know the forum is not the place for giving medical advice, I have found this thread and its many comments so helpful. And I think there are two common reactions. One is Robo's -- I should take a course and be trained. The other seems to be that even if I haven't taken a course, if someone shows the symptoms described by David and is unconscious on the floor, I would decide to give it a try because the alternative is certain death or serious brain damage. Without this thread, I never would have tried anything, but now I think I would. And I am going to find a CPR course -- helpful info to have, especially as I find myself surrounded by more and more "old people" these days.

And with regard to the legal liability issue, no one can promise you you won't be sued, but whether anyone who sues you would ever win a lawsuit against you when you tried to save the life of someone who would have died without your intervention anyway is a different story.

 

[Glenn Rowe]

Great post!

Back in the day I was a certified CPR instructor. Without going into details, I had four occasions to practice my skills for real. One of the four survived.

Like someone once told me, "They're dead already." One has a chance - often a slim chance - to give them back their lives.

 

[Jersey]

Some folks have are under the impression it seems that we do CPR on folks that are not yet dead? I believe we only do CPR on people that are not breathing. Am I missing something?

 

[William Garza]

Your post brought tears to my eyes. Thank you for doing your best and prayers for your loss.

He was a solitary man with distance between himself and close ones.
As i found out at the police station....what was important to me was he was not alone in his moments before taking his leave.
There is a term i heard in some countries that you "send"a person off
I think it applys for leave taking as well as goodbye.

A fellow traveler..as someone you would nod your head to on the way to see Santiago....
He was also a fellow traveler...
Is it not better i think, to travel well and unburden oneself of notions of who they may be..and find out who they are?

There is a period now in his story..history now.

 

[Icacos]

I believe we only do CPR on people that are not breathing.

I'm with you there. I'm no expert, but I believe that's why it's important to get CPR going immediately you realize the person is not breathing - before the brain starts to feel the lack of oxygen.

 

[HedaP]

Great thread. Have kept my first aid training current for many years. It’s been hinted at but not sure anyone has been specific about just how physically demanding it is to do CPR. The guidelines recommend swapping every 2 minutes for this reason. And with each of my courses there are fewer of us who can pass the test because of not being able to kneel for any length of time. Of course adrenaline would kick in and give extra energy. And the training is still vitally important whether you can pass the test or not because knowing how to do CPR means that you can instruct someone else when and if necessary. Regardless, I like to think I would still give it a damn good go even if alone.

 

[Jersey]

I'm with you there. I'm no expert, but I believe that's why it's important to get CPR going immediately you realize the person is not breathing - before the brain starts to feel the lack of oxygen.

I’m not trying to give anyone medical advice.
I can say this. Don’t give anyone CPR who is breathing.
Someone gasping for breath is a grey area.
Take a CPR class to fully understand
My opinion is every business, hotel, alburgue, restaurant, bar etc should be required to have a defibrillator. Not only in Spain but every developed country.
I copied the following statement from Wikipedia

“CPR alone is unlikely to restart the heart. Its main purpose is to restore partial flow of oxygenated blood to the brain and heart. The objective is to delay tissue death and to extend the brief window of opportunity for a successful resuscitation without permanent brain damage “

 

[WGroleau]

If you stop before proper medical care arrives they pretty much will stay dead or have brain damage. I can’t imagine any liability if you just can’t go on because of exhaustion.

As often as I've found myself out in the middle of nowhere without water (or once in a blizzard, or once a kilometer from shore), I have learned that when I think I can't continue because of exhaustion, I actually can do a LOT more. If I ever have to do CPR, I won't know when I'm really exhausted util I wake up from fainting.

 

[WGroleau]

My opinion is every business, hotel, alburgue, restaurant, bar etc should be required to have a defibrillator. Not only in Spain but every developed country.

In Viana, I saw a sign asking people to buy something they were selling to raise funds to buy another AED for the village. Not long after I saw it, a person got dizzy and fell not far from that sign (not cardiac, vertigo) and two people arrived on foot with medical equipment within five minutes.

 

[Lurch]

Great thread! One thing I might add is that it may take a while for help to arrive. Some of us older or less strength (if that is a word) might not be able to continue until that assistance gets there, so someone else may have to work as part of a team to keep going. So if you are standing by just watching you may be called to spell the person doing CPR.

Thanks to all who have posted. It is just reassuring that so many here would be willing to assist if needed!

 

[Older Guy]

Some folks have are under the impression it seems that we do CPR on folks that are not yet dead? I believe we only do CPR on people that are not breathing. Am I missing something?

In addition to checking on breathing, in my First Aid/CPR/AED course we were always taught to check the pulse on the neck. We also were taught to check the mouth/air way and tilt the head/jaw to open the airway if unconscious. Also if it might be a choking situation then do abdominal thrusts.

Artificial respiration only (i.e. without CPR) is still part of the system for some unconscious people. I am not an expert, but carry a resuscitation mouth piece in my first aid kit. I find the resuscitation bag valve mask too bulky to carry.

The following is from 2017 official Red Cross flash cards.

You and another lifeguard find an unresponsive adult on the locker room floor. The other lifeguard goes to summon EMS personnel. You form an initial impression, complete a primary assessment and find that the victim has a pulse but is not breathing. Which of the following should you do next?

Give ventilations at a rate of about 1 every 5-6 seconds

https://quizlet.com/212887714/red-cross-cpraed-first-aid-pro-2017-flash-cards/

 

[David]

All these things are true but I think we may be going beyond the original post, which was to encourage people to help heart attack casualties, to not be afraid to step up.
Sure, there is much much more out there, of course there is, but I think that to lose the focus of the simplicity of 'hands only' cpr, as shown in the video, could be counter-productive.

 

[Theatregal]

.. so the first thing to do is to react, get in there - what is the worst you can do? They will die without you so respond, be afraid later ...

Such a valuable post. Thank you David.

 

[zzotte]

Great video and info thanks, it's important to remember you hope that the person next to you know CPR one never know.

Zzotte

 

[Glenn Rowe]

I'm with you there. I'm no expert, but I believe that's why it's important to get CPR going immediately you realize the person is not breathing - before the brain starts to feel the lack of oxygen.

This may have already been addressed, so my apologies if I'm double-posting.

One does NOT do CPR on someone who is "only" not breathing -- that's what mouth-to-mouth resuscitation, rescue breathing (etc.) is for. One only does CPR on someone who is not breathing AND has no detectable pulse.

 

[Phil W]

Hi - I am putting this up as we have recently had pilgrims suffering heart attacks and you - yes, you! - could save their life ..
the first thing that will happen to you, and the people around you is almost nothing. People get scared, they don't know what to do, so they tend to do nothing - or even worse, try to get the person onto their feet ...

.. so the first thing to do is to react, get in there - what is the worst you can do? They will die without you so respond, be afraid later ...

First check your own safety - such things as live electricity and the casualty lying in a pool of water - check that it is safe for you.
Next get down to their face, shake them, call to them - see if they are responsive .. check to see if they are breathing, or breathing very badly - gasping is not breathing properly! put your cheek against their mouth, look for chest movement - take no longer than ten seconds.
If they have been eating check that this is a heart attack and not something stuck in their throat (they will go red and be trying to breathe - it really looks different from a heart attack) - you would have seen them go down or people nearby would have .. so check that .. if they are breathing check the airway is clear and put them in the recovery position (google how to do those things).
If not, then ....

Then, well, now is the time to try and save their life. The ideal is repetitive chest pressure (cpr) interleaved with 'rescue breaths' but if not trained in rescue breaths cpr alone is fine.

What you are doing here is making the heart pump so that the brain is oxygenated and when the rescue services arrive there is still a working brain, it isn't damaged - and, with luck, you may restore heart action and they will survive - but essentially it is keeping those systems going until help arrives - it is First Aid.

Do try and conquer your fear - it is better to try and do it wrong than not try at all - as you do the compressions get someone else to call the emergency services - if alone shout for help, then do them for thirty seconds, stop and phone, and then start again - the cpr is more important than the call if it is taking a while .. keep the line open, do some more cpr then talk then more cpr, etc - you must continue doing them until help comes.

I was trained years ago to do it to the song Nellie The Elephant beat running in my head - but now (appropriately enough) you can do it to Staying Alive!!
below is an instructional video - it is short, it is funny, and it is true - so please do watch it.

Afterwards, whether the casualty survives or not, expect to become emotional and even weepy, this is normal and it passes - whatever the result you have done a great thing.
And - St John Ambulance and the Red Cross first aid training courses take just one day and are cheap as chips. They will give you the training and confidence to step in and help where all others stand frozen - do take a course, get your whole family involved - do it .. please ...

Here the video - enjoy!! and Buen Camino - to us all.

Thank you David! This is a great reminder about taking care of others. I have given CPR on two occasions, neither were expected but just happened.

What a great reminder that we can save someone's life if we will just try.

Thanks again,

Phil

 

[SeaHorse]

Thanks, David, for reminding!

Like someone once told me, "They're dead already." One has a chance - often a slim chance - to give them back their lives.

The doctor who taught the course I attended said we have to continue cpr either till 1) the patient revives / medics take over or 2) the body gets the blue spots of death. Never quit sooner.

Still there is a catch. Camino specifics if you like. True pilgrims don't carry phones. No way to call that ambulance. Only send a running messenger or pigeon.
I always have been shocked when visually sensible people proudly announce they don't carry those evil devices aka phones because Medieval pilgrims didn't. No ambulance, no police, no way to track if you get lost. Still they don't want to die in as big numbers as the Medieval pilgrims did. Go figure. Oh, I remember one lady said that in emergency she will ask the next pilgrim for the phone. May even work if that isn't also a true pilgrim.

 

[David]

Good point. I am SO against using smartphones and hunting for internet and listening to music and catching up on social networks and sending photos of bridges and churches and meals and punnets of strawberries, to make friends and family suffer ordeal by photograph (the emotion you perceive in the photo because of your experience they cannot perceive, to them it is just another photo) and blogs about walking and anything, anything, to do with the expectation that others somewhere else in the world would or even could be the slightest bit interested in what I or you do - for me it is the one opportunity to break loose from all that - but that is just me - as for phones. I have a great smart phone that I keep with me fully charged (I use a solar panel nappy-pinned to the backpack on my trailer) and I keep it switched off.

Except - I switch it on once each evening for a few moments to see if there are any emergency messages from home and also to be able to use in an 'on Camino' emergency - so in that sense I am totally all for them - for that purpose alone - get a critical moment way out there in the middle of nowhere (though, it is the middle of somewhere for those who live there) and it can save a life - I am not a Luddite, merely someone who thinks that if one is called to Camino then one should (must!) separate from that other world, as one does when going on retreat to any community - they remove your electronics from you on arrival! - but that is just me, my personal opinion.

Buen Camino!!

 

[SeaHorse]

Using is optional at least while you and others are safe. Still I wouldn't visit any community that doesn't trust me enough to follow the rules on my own and thinks that its ok to enforce them by taking my property.

 

[David]

Really?

 

[SeaHorse]

optional doesn't mean I never use it. Mostly I do. I'm a modern girl. But I can stay away if its the polite thing to do.
If its "we don't use electronics here" then we don't use electronics here. If its "you give your stuff to someone older and wiser who will take care" then its insulting! (feel free to insert as many swear words as you can).

 

[David]

Crikey - a bit angry aren't we???? Was just an opinion you know - backed up by some thousands of years of practise - it is normal behaviour to remove the "outside" from those who enter.. coo ... errmmm well, Buen Camino . (and just to note - it can very well be someone younger who asks you to hand over your devices).

 

[SeaHorse]

Yeah, had a day that wasn't from the relaxing weekend set. "Older and wiser" is just an expression. Lately I have noticed there actually are people younger than me. Who would have thought.

 

[David]

 

[Older Guy]

Speaking of smart phones. I would recommend one of several first aid Aps. The one on my phone includes information on CPR and a host of other important topics. Actually, Ivar might want to add that to the "Standard Packing" list information.

 

[Akbunny59]

Just my two penneth guys.....
As a registered nurse, I have been involved in more cardiac arrests than I care to remember.
There is a lot of misunderstanding on this topic than anything else.
As mentioned previously, chest compressions will only keep oxygenated blood flowing to the brain - it will not restart a malfunctioning heart. An AED is the only way to restart a heart, and even then it depends what 'rhythm' the heart is in. If the heart is in an un-shockable rhythm, the AED will tell you. It just keeps telling you to continue cpr. Someone (in a hospital setting this would be a doctor in the crash team), will make the call to stop resuscitation attempts. At this point it is futile to continue, they are dead.
I would be very careful of giving aspirin (yes, this is the drug of choice), to the poor soul on the floor, they may have an allergy to aspirin. You don't want an anaphylactic shock on your hands as well - you probably will kill them....!
Just continue with chest compressions until the cavalry arrive, you can do no more than that.
With regards to litigation, honestly.....? I would attempt cpr EVERY time, if they want to take me to court, bring it on.......

 

[David]

Speaking of smart phones. I would recommend one of several first aid Aps. The one on my phone includes information on CPR and a host of other important topics. Actually, Ivar might want to add that to the "Standard Packing" list information.

good point - which is the one you recommend?

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I would be very careful of giving aspirin (yes, this is the drug of choice), to the poor soul on the floor, they may have an allergy to aspirin. You don't want an anaphylactic shock on your hands as well - you probably will kill them....!

Yes, good point. I had never heard of anyone being allergic to aspirin. Ask first. And do not attempt to give aspirin except when the victim is conscious, breathing and his heart is still beating.

But thinking about asking about asking about aspirin allergies I thought of another point about taking care of a stricken but conscious pilgrim. Try to gather information that may be helpful to doctors and police when they arrive because the victim may be in worse condition when they do and he may not be able to answer questions then. Does the victim have identification on him? If not try to get his name, nationality and next of kin contact information. Is there any pertinent medical information such as previous attacks, medical implants, allergies or required medications? What languages does he speak and which is his native language? Is he traveling with someone? Who and where are they? If stricken in a town then his passport and belongings may be somewhere else, where? This information could be video recorded when being asked the questions (I would ask if he wanted the camera facing him or away.)

Each pilgrim should be carrying this information with him, maybe in the pouch where the aspirin is kept.

 

[Akbunny59]

Unlikely, admittedly, but if you are the poor bugger who has just given aspirin to the to the person....., need I say more....?!
I have never seen an allergy to aspirin myself, but then again not beyond the realms of possibility. I have personally administered enoxaparin (another anti-coagulant) to a patient and they did have an anaphylactic attack - it really screws your (and their) day up....
Leave drug administration to the professionals.....

 

[t2andreo]

In addition to carrying plain aspirin in my front right pocket, which should make it obvious to others that I can use it myself, I DO carry a list, in Spanish and English (and Portuguese or French when necessary) that gives all my emergency information, medications and dosages, allergies, ICE contact information, etc.

I simply used Microsoft Word to make a table with two wide columns and two wide rows (like a window with four panes), then typed the desired information in English in one quadrant. I then carefully translated the content into Spanish, French & Portuguese. I saved the file, updating it as needed over time.

Then, before each Camino, I print two new copies. I fold the table according to where I am traveling. This way, the English side and one of the "foreign" language panels is exposed. The folded paper goes into the pouch with my national passport and credential.

One copy of this four-folded piece of paper rides with my national passport in a Lok-Sak, heavy-duty ziplock bag in my cargo trouser pocket. My Pilgrim credential rides in the same waterproof pouch. The second copy goes in another plain old ziplock bag in the top pocket of my mochila / rucksack, along with other papers I accumulate.

II hope this helps someone.

 

[Akbunny59]

Good advice. I like it.....

 

[Older Guy]

good point - which is the one you recommend?

American Red Cross First Aid App. The First Aid one is in many languages including English and Spanish

http://www.redcross.org/get-help/how-to-prepare-for-emergencies/mobile-apps

 

[t2andreo]

Just before Hurricane Irma, here in Florida, I found and downloaded several pertinent apps to my iPhone. One of those I found is the Red Cross First Aid app mentioned above. It is VERY comprehensive.

It is available in the Apple App store and on the Android store. Search for "Red Cross..."

I recommend it highly.

As always, I hope this helps.

 

[Bala]

Yes, it helps. I have downloaded that and signed up for a Red Cross classroom session on cpr and first aid. Many thanks to all who have contributed so much valuable information and so many good resources to this thread.