BeatriceKarjalainen
Veteran Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- Finished: See post signature.
Doing: C. Levante
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I got the new credential for this camino and it is not any good at all.
- The paper is so glossy that it takes for ever for stamps to dry.
Buen camino, amigo.Thanks Beatrice for the info. I had purchased the new credential for my camino later this month but will revert back to the Irish one now.
Hope you are enjoying your walk.
Take care, be safe.
S.
I got the new credential for this camino and it is not any good at all.
- The paper is so glossy that it takes for ever for stamps to dry. Hospitalieros closes the credential and then you have a mirror copy on the next page as well. This made the hospitaliero in Castro Uridalis to think that I had one more page of stamps than I had and jumped one page ahead.
- The ink in the printed maps doesn't like heat or (wearing the credential close to the body) and rub of onto the next page. It looks awful and took away one page for stamps. The same goes for the info text making my text and the place for the final stamp a grey mass of rubbed of ink.
So if you are going to use the new credential make sure you have a piece of paper to put on the new stamp so if doesn't ruin the next page and store the credential where the pages aren't pressed against each other preferable away from heat as well.
- Very few places for stamps, only 55 and a lot of stamps covers at last 2 squares.
- Why squares at all, my first credential had blank pages so much better.
Tried to upload some pics but it didn't work from the phone.
Really, that is what you are concerned about? It is a pilgrimage, not a stamp collection ...
Buen Camino, SY
Really, that is what you are concerned about? It is a pilgrimage, not a stamp collection ...
Buen Camino, SY
I was involved in the design of the new CSJ pilgrim record last year, which we now sell to non-members. We tried to make the stamping squares big enough to fit most of the usual stamps. So the record is larger than the standard Spanish version and the same size as the French one. But without any text on the stamping area, so you can usually fit 8 to the page. The Spanish version has a grid indicating where each stamp should go, the French one has no marks. We went half-way and put little guide marks rather than lines, so as to minimise interference with the stamp designs. 56 'boxes' seemed a good compromise, given it is to be used on caminos of all lengths. We tested several types of paper and eventually went with the one that dried quickly but best absorbed the ink without losing the detail (i.e not like blotting paper). Again, quite similar to the French variety.Very few places for stamps, only 55 and a lot of stamps covers at last 2 squares.
Really, that is what you are concerned about? It is a pilgrimage, not a stamp collection ...
Buen Camino, SY
If I have control over the credential I put a napkin in there or let it air dry but hospitalieros are are fast sometimesIt's true about the bleeding ink but, that's an easy fix! As mentioned above you can use a napkin to dab it or in my case, I usually sat down to have a break & something to eat and drink..kept it open to air-dry. I still like it. I bought one on Camino after seeing someone else's. It is much more sturdy, prettier (imho) and doesn't get beat up like the original. So, I used my original papery one for Portugal and the new one, when I got it in España!
I here ya Dave!Shoot, I didn't realize that pilgrims couldn't appreciate a nice-looking set of credential stamps! I'll have to work on fixing this.
I've been working in the Oficina with t2andreo as a volunteer. I was one of the people with a blue Tshirt who examined credenciales and wrote out compostelas (these are free and are for people with spiritual or religious motivations), certificadas del bienvenido (these are free and for people who have cultural, sporting or touristic motivations) and certificadas de distancia which are 3 euros and anyone can get if they have either of the above mentioned certificates. I did note that there was some mirror images of some sellos. These were faint and it was clear that the ink hadn't dried well. I spotted this on a few but not all of the credenciales that were presented to me. If you are concerned about this, use a piece of tissue or toilet paper as a blotter. If you are travelling a long distance and fill up one credencial, just get another. These are normally available (in Spain at least) from cathedrals or state albergues. I've had people arrive from Le Puy in France or even further away with more than one credencial (in a few cases three). What we look at in the Oficina are the LAST 100km for foot, horse or wheelchair peregrinos and the last 200km for bicigrinos. You can start from Warsaw (and I use this as an example as I met someone last year who did this) but at the Oficina we are interested in the last 100 or 200km (see above) and these are the sellos we look for. If they are blurred or smeared, we still know what they are. They come in a particular order if you are walking or cycling so you would NEVER have a Melide stamp before a Sarria stamp. If you want the distance certificate, we look at all of your credenciales and try to establish if you have done the whole route or missed out bits. I have had people who have started in Le Puy, walked to St Jean Pied de Port and then took a bus to Leon and walked from there. For the distance certificate, you would only get it from Leon. I have had people protest this, but the distance certificate is not about where you started from and then took a bus, it is where you have walked, riden a horse, used a wheelchair or cycled from continuously.I happen to be serving as a volunteer at the Pilgrim Office in Santiago through 19 August. For what is worth, I will bring this to management's attention.
I hope this helps.
which credential are you referring to? is it the one issued by the office in st jean or another? please advise.........
I may go with an English/Irish credential
Thanks for your long reply. I did have a napkin in my credential but it was not always added back by the hospitalieros. I know I can get another one I just pointed out that I liked the one from SJPdP better and made a suggestion. I also know the rules for a Compostela, have 5 of them at home. I have had some problems in the Peregrino office once or twice as I walk fast and long distances and therefore don't have many stamps at all in my credential. My last 100 is usually 2-3 days depending on route.I've been working in the Oficina with t2andreo as a volunteer. I was one of the people with a blue Tshirt who examined credenciales and wrote out compostelas (these are free and are for people with spiritual or religious motivations), certificadas del bienvenido (these are free and for people who have cultural, sporting or touristic motivations) and certificadas de distancia which are 3 euros and anyone can get if they have either of the above mentioned certificates. I did note that there was some mirror images of some sellos. These were faint and it was clear that the ink hadn't dried well. I spotted this on a few but not all of the credenciales that were presented to me. If you are concerned about this, use a piece of tissue or toilet paper as a blotter. If you are travelling a long distance and fill up one credencial, just get another. These are normally available (in Spain at least) from cathedrals or state albergues. I've had people arrive from Le Puy in France or even further away with more than one credencial (in a few cases three). What we look at in the Oficina are the LAST 100km for foot, horse or wheelchair peregrinos and the last 200km for bicigrinos. You can start from Warsaw (and I use this as an example as I met someone last year who did this) but at the Oficina we are interested in the last 100 or 200km (see above) and these are the sellos we look for. If they are blurred or smeared, we still know what they are. They come in a particular order if you are walking or cycling so you would NEVER have a Melide stamp before a Sarria stamp. If you want the distance certificate, we look at all of your credenciales and try to establish if you have done the whole route or missed out bits. I have had people who have started in Le Puy, walked to St Jean Pied de Port and then took a bus to Leon and walked from there. For the distance certificate, you would only get it from Leon. I have had people protest this, but the distance certificate is not about where you started from and then took a bus, it is where you have walked, riden a horse, used a wheelchair or cycled from continuously.
There are issues with the new credencial. For example, it does not specify wheel chair users, even though everyone at the desk at the office knows what the rule is. There are issues with the wording about 'christian' pilgrimage (thread now closed as the Dean of the Cathedral pointed out the phrase afterwards would include everyone else). I've had very positive comments saying that the new credencial is 'more robust' and 'more compact'. A KEY motivation in issuing the new credencial is a standard statement about what conditions a peregrino needs to achieve to get a compostela or a certificado de bienvenida. Agreements have been set up with the Fraternities of St James in various countries so that this information is clear on these documents. So, the American credencial, the Italian one, the British one, the Canadian one, the very lovely Irish one and the AMAZING Japanese one are all OK. They all make it clear that you have to walk THE LAST 1ookm or cycle THE LAST 200km of a recognised route. I mention this because people have shown up expecting a Compostela for having walked 100km, but it was a selection of walks that added up to 100km. I have had people who have walked from Le Puy to St Jean which is 30 days and a LONG walk but have taken a bus to Santiago and expected a Compostela. This was not granted because they did not meet the rule (see above).
There are BOXES of the new credenciales and they will be issued until they are used up. Issues about the type of paper and comments about wheelchair users will be taken on board, but don't expect to see any changes until the boxes of what has been printed is used up.
As one of the previous commenters mentioned: this is pilgrimage. It is not about collecting stamps or getting a certificate. I had one French man arrive who said that he didn't want a Compostela, all he wanted was a stamp on his wooden walking pole and he had stamps from along the route. I did this and then was shut down by full time staff saying that we could only stamp credenciales or Bibles. Their intervention was too late and he was heading to Finisterre. He gave me a lovely smile and then headed off to the End of the Earth.
Thank you for doing this. I understand that they want to use the printed credential anything else would be a waste of resources.Okay folks, here's the deal. I am at the Pilgrim Office at this moment. I just showed, AND DEMONSTRATED using inked stamps, exactly the issue that the OP mentioned. Thank you Beatrice!
I also obtained an old St. Jean Pied de Port credential from the "lost & found" box to demonstrate the difference, again to management. Also, I used my cargo pockets, I am wearing my Camino pants, to demonstrate how large a credential can be and still easily fit in a side cargo pocket.
We got lucky in a way. Evidently, the Archbishop is coming by in an hour or so. So, it is all-hands-on-deck, and all the managers and supervisors are present, for "the boss."
I had someone translate my commentary and remarks from this thread. All present agreed that the credential should be changed, in future. Also, all agreed with me that a paper, closer in porosity to the St. Jean Pied de Port credential would be better. Finally, I made the suggestion in passing that they might also consider what credential size is best for obtaining stamps also my the way.
However, and as my friend Nicole pointed out above, in her customary concise manner (insert mild guffaw here fish girl), the Pilgrims Office must first consume the estimated nearly 60,000 credentials in stock. I did ask that question... I suppose they got a really good volume discount...
As a result, they did tell me that they would "definitely change the paper" for the next printing run.
So, that is that my friends. I did what I set out to do. I happened to get lucky in that all the secular AND religious Pilgrim Office hierarchy just happened to be present.
Never passing up such a audience, I made the case reasonably and with a demonstration. Hopefully, this will make a difference. Then again, who can say...
I hope this helps, perhaps for next year...
BTW I'll be in the office tomorrow sometime before noon I think. If you are there I can show how mine looks like now.Okay folks, here's the deal. I am at the Pilgrim Office at this moment. I just showed, AND DEMONSTRATED using inked stamps, exactly the issue that the OP mentioned. Thank you Beatrice!
I also obtained an old St. Jean Pied de Port credential from the "lost & found" box to demonstrate the difference, again to management. Also, I used my cargo pockets, I am wearing my Camino pants, to demonstrate how large a credential can be and still easily fit in a side cargo pocket.
We got lucky in a way. Evidently, the Archbishop is coming by in an hour or so. So, it is all-hands-on-deck, and all the managers and supervisors are present, for "the boss."
I had someone translate my commentary and remarks from this thread. All present agreed that the credential should be changed, in future. Also, all agreed with me that a paper, closer in porosity to the St. Jean Pied de Port credential would be better. Finally, I made the suggestion in passing that they might also consider what credential size is best for obtaining stamps also my the way.
However, and as my friend Nicole pointed out above, in her customary concise manner (insert mild guffaw here fish girl), the Pilgrims Office must first consume the estimated nearly 60,000 credentials in stock. I did ask that question... I suppose they got a really good volume discount...
As a result, they did tell me that they would "definitely change the paper" for the next printing run.
So, that is that my friends. I did what I set out to do. I happened to get lucky in that all the secular AND religious Pilgrim Office hierarchy just happened to be present.
Never passing up such a audience, I made the case reasonably and with a demonstration. Hopefully, this will make a difference. Then again, who can say...
I hope this helps, perhaps for next year...
Thanks for this info. From the standpoint of a non-user, they looked very nice, so much nicer than the flimsy paper ones they replaced. But the proof is in the pudding , And it's too bad that the cathedral didn't "test drive" them before beginning mass production.
Before reading your comment, Beatrice, I had planned to use the Spanish one next year. But I guess I will stick with APOC's tried and true credential.
Thanks for the heads up. Buen Camino, Laurie
thank you mspath for your rapid if not reassuring responseThe Credencial which has been discussed in the above posts is that which was recently and newly issued within Spain. The Credential which is currently offered in Saint Jean Pied de Port is a French issue and not printed on the same problematic glossy paper stock.
...Thus in the truest sense vive la différence!
I got the new credential for this camino and it is not any good at all.
Hola Laurie - can non-Americans get the APOC credential??Thanks for this info. Before reading your comment, Beatrice, I had planned to use the Spanish one next year. But I guess I will stick with APOC's tried and true credential. Thanks for the heads up. Buen Camino, Laurie
Okay folks, here's the deal. I am at the Pilgrim Office at this moment. I just showed, AND DEMONSTRATED using inked stamps, exactly the issue that the OP mentioned. Thank you Beatrice!
I also obtained an old St. Jean Pied de Port credential from the "lost & found" box to demonstrate the difference, again to management. Also, I used my cargo pockets, I am wearing my Camino pants, to demonstrate how large a credential can be and still easily fit in a side cargo pocket.
We got lucky in a way. Evidently, the Archbishop is coming by in an hour or so. So, it is all-hands-on-deck, and all the managers and supervisors are present, for "the boss."
I had someone translate my commentary and remarks from this thread. All present agreed that the credential should be changed, in future. Also, all agreed with me that a paper, closer in porosity to the St. Jean Pied de Port credential would be better. Finally, I made the suggestion in passing that they might also consider what credential size is best for obtaining stamps also my the way.
However, and as my friend Nicole pointed out above, in her customary concise manner (insert mild guffaw here fish girl), the Pilgrims Office must first consume the estimated nearly 60,000 credentials in stock. I did ask that question... I suppose they got a really good volume discount...
As a result, they did tell me that they would "definitely change the paper" for the next printing run.
So, that is that my friends. I did what I set out to do. I happened to get lucky in that all the secular AND religious Pilgrim Office hierarchy just happened to be present.
Never passing up such a audience, I made the case reasonably and with a demonstration. Hopefully, this will make a difference. Then again, who can say...
I hope this helps, perhaps for next year...
Hola Laurie - can non-Americans get the APOC credential??
Ivar - have there been any comments from the people who devised/printed these credentials??
Cheers
I got the new credential for this camino and it is not any good at all.
- The paper is so glossy that it takes for ever for stamps to dry. Hospitalieros closes the credential and then you have a mirror copy on the next page as well. This made the hospitaliero in Castro Uridalis to think that I had one more page of stamps than I had and jumped one page ahead.
- The ink in the printed maps doesn't like heat or (wearing the credential close to the body) and rub of onto the next page. It looks awful and took away one page for stamps. The same goes for the info text making my text and the place for the final stamp a grey mass of rubbed of ink.
So if you are going to use the new credential make sure you have a piece of paper to put on the new stamp so if doesn't ruin the next page and store the credential where the pages aren't pressed against each other preferable away from heat as well.
- Very few places for stamps, only 55 and a lot of stamps covers at last 2 squares.
- Why squares at all, my first credential had blank pages so much better.
Tried to upload some pics but it didn't work from the phone.
See comments from @t2andreo above. He demonstrated the problem for the responsible persons. There will be better paper in upcoming editions.Hola Laurie - can non-Americans get the APOC credential??
Ivar - have there been any comments from the people who devised/printed these credentials??
Cheers
Well I tried all tricks but with the distance certificate on the inside if the compostela it was hard to tighten it to pull it out safetely with that paper coming in from the outside of the tube. I had to remove the wrapping paper from the inside as the compostela got stucked. Had no such problems with the old tube. Now I have rolled my Compostela with the distance certificate on the outside instead.The compostela will come out of the coloured tubes easily if you tighten it up gently at the centre with your finger - so making it narrower.We did that with the plain ones too so hadn't realised that the new ones could be a problem.
Do you think it would help to bring a tiny piece of parchment paper to keep slipped between the active page?I got the new credential for this camino and it is not any good at all.
- The paper is so glossy that it takes for ever for stamps to dry. Hospitalieros closes the credential and then you have a mirror copy on the next page as well. This made the hospitaliero in Castro Uridalis to think that I had one more page of stamps than I had and jumped one page ahead.
- The ink in the printed maps doesn't like heat or (wearing the credential close to the body) and rub of onto the next page. It looks awful and took away one page for stamps. The same goes for the info text making my text and the place for the final stamp a grey mass of rubbed of ink.
So if you are going to use the new credential make sure you have a piece of paper to put on the new stamp so if doesn't ruin the next page and store the credential where the pages aren't pressed against each other preferable away from heat as well.
- Very few places for stamps, only 55 and a lot of stamps covers at last 2 squares.
- Why squares at all, my first credential had blank pages so much better.
Tried to upload some pics but it didn't work from the phone.
Do you think it would help to bring a tiny piece of parchment paper to keep slipped between the active page?
Thanks for speaking truth to power, "t". Like so many others, I've come to value my credentials with their stamps as much or even more than I value my "Compostelas". I will definitely be ordering a couple of credentials from the APOC for my camino next year. With my luck, I would get the last of the 60,000.
See comments from @t2andreo above. He demonstrated the problem for the responsible persons. There will be better paper in upcoming editions.
While I'm at it I can also complain about the tubes. The once with facy blue (for men) and red (for women) wrapping that is tucked into the tube is Compostela destroyers. The tucked in paper creates a stop for the Compostela and makes it really hard to get out. The old tubes without fancy wrapping was much better. Don't they test run things? And why this gender thing?
The key to inproving this ubiquitous credential is using up the extant inventory.
In fact, I was up in the attic of the Pilgrim Office this morning. I lugged 14 cases of tubos down two flights of stairs, as well as rotating the tube stock to use up about 15 cases of older tubos that were discovered during the move from old office to new.
While I was there, I took note of the credential stock. Yup! They might just use them up this calendar year. We will see...
While I was up in the attic of the "new" building, I did restock a lot of the inventory to face labels forward, etc. so they could accurately count what is there.
One can only do so much...and on my own, as manual labor does not seem to be in anyone's remit...oh well. Then there is the private joke I have with management here. They know that I will gladly do anything asked if me, provided it is legal. It is said that for extra/legal issues...we can talk...
I did the same in one albergue on Primitivo there was a lot of old food. And I think there were 10 bags of salt and 10 half garlic.Lol, that story reminds me of a Camino many eons back when I stayed in a huge parish center in South France. The priest showed me proudly the kitchen and pantry "Free use for pilgrims!" and then added timidly "And if you could go through the storage and sort out the things that are passed their sell-by/safe to eat date I would really appreciate it..." ;-) I had a glorious afternoon/evening sorting out the pantry and making the place a bit safer food-poisoning-wise ;-) Buen Camino, SY
Okay folks, here's the deal. I am at the Pilgrim Office at this moment. I just showed, AND DEMONSTRATED using inked stamps, exactly the issue that the OP mentioned. Thank you Beatrice!
I also obtained an old St. Jean Pied de Port credential from the "lost & found" box to demonstrate the difference, again to management. Also, I used my cargo pockets, I am wearing my Camino pants, to demonstrate how large a credential can be and still easily fit in a side cargo pocket.
We got lucky in a way. Evidently, the Archbishop is coming by in an hour or so. So, it is all-hands-on-deck, and all the managers and supervisors are present, for "the boss."
I had someone translate my commentary and remarks from this thread. All present agreed that the credential should be changed, in future. Also, all agreed with me that a paper, closer in porosity to the St. Jean Pied de Port credential would be better. Finally, I made the suggestion in passing that they might also consider what credential size is best for obtaining stamps also my the way.
However, and as my friend Nicole pointed out above, in her customary concise manner (insert mild guffaw here fish girl), the Pilgrims Office must first consume the estimated nearly 60,000 credentials in stock. I did ask that question... I suppose they got a really good volume discount...
As a result, they did tell me that they would "definitely change the paper" for the next printing run.
So, that is that my friends. I did what I set out to do. I happened to get lucky in that all the secular AND religious Pilgrim Office hierarchy just happened to be present.
Never passing up such a audience, I made the case reasonably and with a demonstration. Hopefully, this will make a difference. Then again, who can say...
I hope this helps, perhaps for next year...
A true hero!Okay folks...here is my tubo status report. Drum roll please....
"As of the end of my volunteer shift at 15:00 CET Thursday (today) ALL old-style, crimped paper-edged red tubos are sold out in the main office. ONLY about 150 old-style tubos remain to be sold in the group office. The Sarria Strolling Set will likely consume those by COB this evening, but certainly by the end of my last shift tomorrow."
Mission Accomplished!
This was undertaken in part due to prodding by Beatrice (see the thread above). My personal goal each year when I home to work as a volunteer is to leave things better than I found them. I think this side-effort met that goal. Thank you Beatrice!
I hope this helps...
I truly appreciate stories like this from the front lines in Spain. Living on the other side of the pond, it is difficult to have an awareness of local Spanish politics, religion and how things work. I find it both enlightening and amusing and I am often struck by how much we are the same, not how much we are different. Thank you for your insights.Aw shucks mam...just doing my duty, as best I can.
I finished my last shift on the Pilgrim Office at 15:00 today. I am currently enjoyed the first of several well-deserved pintas of Franzikaner Weissbier. As projected, tomorrow will find the Oficina del Peregrinos with only new design tubos with the razor-cut edge.
On a related note, Don Segundo, the Dean of the Cathedral for ALL things Peregrino related (his signature is on every Compostela and certificate issued) came by this afternoon. He called management into a brief, closed door meeting.
Within one-hour of that meeting, ALL souvenirs previously available for purchase were removed from the Pilgrim Office. Period, gone!
The only items still available for a "donativo" are conchas, Certificates of Distance, Votive Candles, and Tubos.
I asked "why," and was simply told that Don Segundo did not like it. That was enough a reason for staff to comply.
A year ago, when the new office was in the planning stages, I pleaded with the priest who was and remains the Chaplain to the ACC volunteer organization, to clearly separate the selling of non-related items from where Compostelas were issued. At that time I offered the opinion that, IMHO, it cheapened the process. I used the metaphor of Christ upsetting the vendor and money changer tables in the courtyard of the Great Temple in Jerusalem as my example.
I will NOT take credit for this. Even though this is Spain, where all change is glacial, I genuinely suspect the rationale behind the boss' notion and abrupt change is easier to adduce.
My assessment is that someone in the local business community likely got to him and told him that souvenir sales were off by "x" percent city-wide, and that Pilgrim Office sales of souvenir items were the proximate cause. That IS how things work in this "neck of the woods..."
I cannot prove that supposition. However based on my knowledge of Spanish society, the economy, and local politics, it strikes me as a far more reasonable cause of the abrupt change, than for Don Segundo to have had a spontaneous change of mind.
Still and all, not having the added complexities of selling stuff not directly related to being a pilgrim DOES streamline the process of issuing Compostelas and Distance Certificates. This sudden and abrupt policy change should improve throughput and attenuate wait times for pilgrims. We shall see...
I hope this helps...
@ivar was only selling them while supplies lasted, and may not be available any more. (I requested an old one if available, but received a new one.)The " old" model still being sold by Ivar
I was wrong about the gender thing. For the first time I saw women with blue tubes today
For a minute each day, you will have to place a piece of paper (maybe keep a square of toilet paper in your credential) on the stamp. Consider that to be a ceremonial moment of reflection. A pause in your day while you admire the stamp and let it dry. Think about the people who were responsible for this "travesty"I dont want this sort of concern on my pilgrimage
i kept small squares of TP for moments of reflection on the camino, and I had the old credential(maybe keep a square of toilet paper in your credential) on the stamp. Consider that to be a ceremonial moment of reflection.
Touché!i kept small squares of TP for moments of reflection on the camino, and I had the old credential
actually, I really really liked your post...just wonderful. but I could not resist.Touché!
i kept small squares of TP for moments of reflection on the camino, ...
actually, I really really liked your post...just wonderful. but I could not resist.
I'll try to reach them out later on today! Just got their email address now.Have you tried your local (Brazilian) Camino association or similar? Buen Camino, SY
Are these new "improved" credentials what you are shipping out now?Just an update on this... I just got a few new boxes of credentials from the pilgrims office and they have now changed the paper that the credentials is printed on. It is now less glossy and feels a lot like the same paper the old credential was printed on. I hope this will fix the problem described above.
Buen camino!
Ivar
YesAre these new "improved" credentials what you are shipping out now?
Thanks. I'll go ahead and order mine.
Oh you baaaad pilgrim! Please notice my "like", and Ivar's no less!Maybe any leftover glossy paper credentials could be stockpiled for distribution in Sarria.
Maybe any leftover glossy paper credentials could be stockpiled for distribution in Sarria.
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