The Meaning of Life...on Camino

[Arn]

I'm reminded of the hermit on the top of the hill and the many pilgrims that walked the winding path in search of the Meaning of Life...hoping, beyond hope, the hermit could answer the question. My understanding of his answer was: How do I know...I've been living on this hill a long time, hoping to reflect on the Meaning of Life...and, just when I get close to that discovery...my focus is interrupted by someone asking me the Meaning of Life.
Over the years, time after time, members of the Forum have asked of themselves and other members..."What is the Meaning of the Camino?"
In all honesty, some look deep for the answer, while others submit a "pithy" response...not their real answer, but one to garner a few "likes".
Others discount another's response by submitting that "What does it matter? It is what it is!"
Therein, I believe is the obvious point of departure between all three.
Deep thought and consideration take time.
The pithy response is too pat to be realistic, yet, to the lite thinker...it's a revelation and so, so "real"...it must "be true".
To distance ones self from the topic, is to enter full Monty.
By attempting to distance yourself you actually immerse your self in the topic...or surface a "straw horse" in the hope you are insulated against ever revealing a side of you that may expose a weakness, or possibly emotional normality.
In all the above, the true missing factor in the equation is the real and lasting effect the Camino does and will have on each and every one of us.
Whatever your bent, your world view, your prejudices or proclivities...the Camino can and will become a factor and, at some time, provide a window inside your soul. A crack in your heretofore impenetrable nonchalant aura of one with yourself to the exclusion of emotion on your part, or disparagement of others for theirs.
The Camino is a challenge, a desire, a need and a window into ourselves. And, the result of Walking the Way is and will be visible to others. Whether we like it or not.
Buen Camino

 

[simply B]

A crack in your heretofore impenetrable nonchalant aura of one with yourself to the exclusion of emotion on your part, or disparagement of others for theirs.

@Arn


"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."

Leonard Cohen



B

 

[SYates]

Risking to sound shallow/pithy her, but for me the meaning of life is to live life in a way that makes me happy and life better for others. SY

 

[amorfati1]

@Arn


"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."

Leonard Cohen



B

thanks - one of my favorite quotes!!

these ones also came to mind/heart -

I'm astounded by people who want to 'know' the universe when it's hard enough to find your way around Chinatown.
Woody Allen

What if everything is an illusion and nothing exists?
In that case, I definitely overpaid for my carpet.
- Woody Allen

pardon - having internet hic-ups - will continue when slayzcac9zc

 

[Annie G]

Your post is a good response to a query that I made on another thread, "The Camino never leaves your heart", to which I never received a reply:

What is it that makes walking the Camino so special? Are there other long distance walks that are at least comparable? Is the 35+ days of relative deprivation from normal, every day comforts along with forgotten obligations back home that make people want to walk it? (If that were true, then the permanently homeless would be the happiest, most contented people in the world.) It must be something other than the change in perspective that travel in general affords. Visits to other countries and locations could do that as well. Is it the physical and emotional challenge that entices; can the body and mind take the abuse? If so, why not walk to the North Pole? Is it the religious pilgrimage? What if you are a non-believer? Is it the camaraderie, the exposure to a different culture, language and customs? If so, you could go to any other country but your own to get this, or to a bar on the other side of the town that you're in now. Why do perigrinos keep going back? Did they miss the point the first time?

I have traveled extensively under dire conditions but have never walked the Camino...yet. Next year hopefully, although I have no idea why, except that my husband died suddenly 6 months ago. But maybe it's something else? I really would like to know before I hand over thousands of dollars to just get to SJPP.

 

[amorfati1]

Deep thought and consideration take time.

The Camino can and will become a factor and, at some time, provide a window inside your soul.[/QUOTE]
And, the result of Walking the Way is and will be visible to others. Whether we like it or not.[/QUOTE]

ditto to all those quoted lines -
and i would also add: ... the camino can and will provide a window inside your soul. --- if you/one lets it ...
and further another quote i like alot (by llewellyn vaughan-lee)
"We live my mystery and not by explanation". -
hence I never felt inclined to question the meaning of life , on the camino or 'off' the camino - as a contained statement. one lives a meaning, one lives a vocation, a love ... not sure if it can put into words.
i for one love it to be so drawn by something which remains such a mystery to me. it's a relief not needing to know, to figure it out.

very best wishes --- and i hope you are fully recovered from that frosty fall a short while ago ...

 

[amorfati1]

Your post is a good response to a query that I made on another thread, "The Camino never leaves your heart", to which I never received a reply:

What is it that makes walking the Camino so special? Are there other long distance walks that are at least comparable? Is the 35+ days of relative deprivation from normal, every day comforts along with forgotten obligations back home that make people want to walk it? (If that were true, then the permanently homeless would be the happiest, most contented people in the world.) It must be something other than the change in perspective that travel in general affords. Visits to other countries and locations could do that as well. Is it the physical and emotional challenge that entices; can the body and mind take the abuse? If so, why not walk to the North Pole? Is it the religious pilgrimage? What if you are a non-believer? Is it the camaraderie, the exposure to a different culture, language and customs? If so, you could go to any other country but your own to get this, or to a bar on the other side of the town that you're in now. Why do perigrinos keep going back? Did they miss the point the first time?

I have traveled extensively under dire conditions but have never walked the Camino...yet. Next year hopefully, although I have no idea why, except that my husband died suddenly 6 months ago. But maybe it's something else? I really would like to know before I hand over thousands of dollars to just get to SJPP.

hi annie - i speak/write entirely from my own bias/perspective - and i can't provide answers --- and would say that what you like to know if not knowable in a rational sense/fashion.
"I really would like to know before I hand over thousands of dollars to just get to SJPP"

it's like standing infront of a restaurant and reading the menu and imaging how it might taste and that you might like it - but the experience of actually eating/tasting that dish may or may not be unlike what you imagined or wondered about. you can't know - until one eats the dish.

something has caught your attention about the el camino - perhaps you can trust that and 'just' proceed from there.
yes - it is a pilgrimage.
even if you are a non believer (so called) - it is still a pilgrimage. the intention of that path has roots in something other, not rooted in the notion of 'lets take a long hiking vacation'.

"Why do perigrinos keep going back? Did they miss the point the first time? "
when someone makes love for the first time, and then again ... did the second event happen because they missed the point the first time?
not in everything they is a point to be gotten -

perhaps you like to connect, reconnect with something that can't be yet said in words?
and you won't be handing over thousands of dollars .... you'd be investing them into YOU ... via purchases of travel items and tickets.
very best wishes ---and buen camino!!

 

[Annie G]

hi annie - i speak/write entirely from my own bias/perspective - and i can't provide answers --- and would say that what you like to know if not knowable in a rational sense/fashion.
"I really would like to know before I hand over thousands of dollars to just get to SJPP"

it's like standing infront of a restaurant and reading the menu and imaging how it might taste and that you might like it - but the experience of actually eating/tasting that dish may or may not be unlike what you imagined or wondered about. you can't know - until one eats the dish.

something has caught your attention about the el camino - perhaps you can trust that and 'just' proceed from there.
yes - it is a pilgrimage.
even if you are a non believer (so called) - it is still a pilgrimage. the intention of that path has roots in something other, not rooted in the notion of 'lets take a long hiking vacation'.

"Why do perigrinos keep going back? Did they miss the point the first time? "
when someone makes love for the first time, and then again ... did the second event happen because they missed the point the first time?
not in everything they is a point to be gotten -

perhaps you like to connect, reconnect with something that can't be yet said in words?
and you won't be handing over thousands of dollars .... you'd be investing them into YOU ... via purchases of travel items and tickets.
very best wishes ---and buen camino!!

I struggle with the notion that sometimes there is not an actual point to be gotten or missed. Pragmatism does that. Perhaps that is why I feel the draw to the Camino. By nature, it is unpredictable and foreign, like some sort of virus to be avoided at all costs. But then there is the intrigue of the unpredictable and foreign, not to be dismissed lightly. Like deciding to enter that exotic restaurant without the luxury of a review. Thank you for your post.

 

[C clearly]

I really would like to know before I hand over thousands of dollars to just get to SJPP.

There are no money-back guarantees when you set out on the camino. As @amorfati1 pointed out, there are many "special" experiences that are impossible to explain, and I'm not sure that we should try too hard to do so.

 

[amorfati1]

I struggle with the notion that sometimes there is not an actual point to be gotten or missed. Pragmatism does that. Perhaps that is why I feel the draw to the Camino. By nature, it is unpredictable and foreign, like some sort of virus to be avoided at all costs. But then there is the intrigue of the unpredictable and foreign, not to be dismissed lightly. Like deciding to enter that exotic restaurant without the luxury of a review. Thank you for your post.

Pragmatism is very useful tool - when applied in the appropriate department.
when encountering a mystery of any sort - death, life, birth, immense or simple beauty, etc ... pragmatism falls short.
for a pilgrimage, a leap is required. the abyss we leap over can take various shapes: financial, trust, vulnerability, health, and so forth.
it requires a leap that is different than booking a cruise, or a sight-seeing trip to a big city or mountain range.
as C Clearly said so accurately: there are no money-back guarantees on the camino ;-)
and that is true for life as well, no?
you said that you feel drawn to the camino - that's a great currency to start with
trust THAT ...
!!!
very best wishes ~

 

[cher99840]

@Annie G , I believe the Camino will be to you whatever you want it to be. It can be a respite from life's burdens; it can be an embracing of life's blessings. It can be getting away from the familiar; it can be seeking new experience. I don't think I've met or heard of anyone who regretted going. Some regretted suffering injury thru bad luck or poor decisions, but they didn't regret the journey, only the outcome.

I'm very sorry for your losses. I've been there and understand that you have not only lost your husband, but your own future as you understood it would be. I don't know if the Camino will ease those feelings of your life having come unraveled, but I think it might. Just my opinion of course.

 

[Annie G]

@Annie G , I believe the Camino will be to you whatever you want it to be. It can be a respite from life's burdens; it can be an embracing of life's blessings. It can be getting away from the familiar; it can be seeking new experience. I don't think I've met or heard of anyone who regretted going. Some regretted suffering injury thru bad luck or poor decisions, but they didn't regret the journey, only the outcome.
lI'm very sorry for your losses. I've been there and understand that you have not only lost your husband, but your own future as you understood it would be. I don't know if the Camino will ease those feelings of your life having come unraveled, but I think it might. Just my opinion of course.

I hope you're right. I look forward to it, blisters and all.

 

[cher99840]

I hope you're right. I look forward to it, blisters and all.

I treated my feet with the same (if not more) tender loving care as I did my baby's bottom many years ago and didn't get a blister.

 

[Annie G]

I treated my feet with the same (if not more) tender loving care as I did my baby's bottom many years ago and didn't get a blister.

Boudreaux's Butt Paste? I haven't noticed that this is on the recommended list of treatments for preventions of blisters. Maybe we should introduce it?

 

[Annie G]

Thank you all for your posts. It has helped me wonder why I should even attempt the Camino. I wish I could start tomorrow.

 

[hampshire!tim]

Why do perigrinos keep going back? Did they miss the point the first time?

In other parts of your post, you mention some undoubted attractions :
- some form of abstinence from normal comforts
- some form of escape from routine obligations which however willingly discharged, leave an entrapped feeling
- some form of change of environment (travel etc.)
- some form of shared endeavour, with other pilgrims, even if not walking specifically with others

But as you also say, if these were the only reasons, then any walk, or even "not a walk" could deliver equivalent benefits.

So the nub of your questions seems to me be in the small segment that I quoted. Why indeed ?
I cannot answer for everyone, but these would be my own reasons and my hallucination of others' reasons :-
- many pilgrims find a form of peace and/or self-knowledge, and returning pilgrims are looking to re-connect with that
- many pilgrims find strength which they didn't previously know for sure they had, and returning is a way to deepen and celebrate that

So no, they did not miss the point, they found something they want to experience again.

You may quickly point out that those also could be achieved doing anything, even perhaps the washing-up.
But I think there is a difference.

For me, as a non-believer, there is a special quality to Santiago de Compostela.
I found some "meaning" in the cathedrals in Burgos, Santo Domingo, Leon, Astorga and some other churches along the way. But they were like many other places I had visited before, been touched and impressed, but not moved.
But the cathedral in SdC was different - I was absolutely moved.
Was that because of the Cathedral? yes, I think so.
Was it fuelled by a sense of completion, after days of stretching myself physically and mentally? Yes, for sure.

I have walked the Camino twice, and have same vague ambition to walk every mainstream camino route. And I also have ambitions to walk routes in my own country, the EPW and also the Appalachian Trail and the Pacific Crest Trail. So, I have been well and truly bitten by the bug. It's changed my view of when I retire, bringing it forward 5 or 10 years.

Would that have happened if I walked XYZ route ? Maybe. Personally I don't believe so. I believe that for me the Camino will always be different (i'll confirm when I have finished the others!), and it is because it is different that the bug has bitten so hard.

Maybe if you need more before you take the SJPP decision, maybe try the reverse (or have you already?) : walk A.N.OTHER route more locally, see what you get from it and see whether it is enough. If not, you may be closer to your answer.

 

[Kitsambler]

"What is the Meaning of the Camino?"

It's an interesting question - what is different about the Camino, that makes it different from ordinary tourist travel, ordinary physical exercise, ordinary religious retreats?

For me, it was vulnerability. When you don't have a tour guide or a large suitcase of extra clothes and supplies, you're vulnerable. When your walk needs to continue to your lodging, and you can't just stop when your brain says it is tired, you're vulnerable. When you are walking alone or with a changing collection of heretofore strangers, rather than at retreat with familiar faces, you're vulnerable.

It's that vulnerability that make the crack ... the crack that lets the light in. What you learn from the light ... well, that's up to you.

 

[Annie G]

It's an interesting question - what is different about the Camino, that makes it different from ordinary tourist travel, ordinary physical exercise, ordinary religious retreats?

For me, it was vulnerability. When you don't have a tour guide or a large suitcase of extra clothes and supplies, you're vulnerable. When your walk needs to continue to your lodging, and you can't just stop when your brain says it is tired, you're vulnerable. When you are walking alone or with a changing collection of heretofore strangers, rather than at retreat with familiar faces, you're vulnerable.

It's that vulnerability that make the crack ... the crack that lets the light in. What you learn from the light ... well, that's up to you.

You may have hit the venerable nail on the head. Here's a TED talk about vulnerability that I ran across just today:
http://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability?language=en

And as an intriguing coincidence, I had no idea that my daughter has been reading this woman's book for weeks now.

 

[amorfati1]

You may have hit the venerable nail on the head. Here's a TED talk about vulnerability that I ran across just today:
http://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability?language=en

And as an intriguing coincidence, I had no idea that my daughter has been reading this woman's book for weeks now.

how most curious - i came across her talk yesterday when i researched a talk to send to a co-worker. - -- see, the plot thickens already

here is the talk i researched - also has a transcript available:
http://www.ted.com/talks/susan_cain_the_power_of_introverts

 

[Deleted member 22638]

Thank you all for your posts. It has helped me wonder why I should even attempt the Camino. I wish I could start tomorrow.

I liked this quote from British politician Rory Stewart, which I think resonates with many on the Camino

"Most of human history was conducted through contacts, made at walking pace…the pilgrimages to Compostela in Spain…to the source of the Ganges, and wandering dervishes, sadhus, and friars, who approached God on foot. The Buddha meditated by walking, and Wordsworth composed sonnets while striding beside the Lakes. Bruce Chatwin concluded from all these things that we would think and live better, and be closer to our purpose as humans, if we moved continually on foot across the surface of the earth."

 

[vgen5122]

The Camino is what you make it to be. I can only tell you what I experienced. I walked across Spain and experienced life as I would have normally not seen it. I experienced people who were friendly, helpful and giving. Maybe I am a little prejudice here because Spain is my ancestral homeland, but I don't think so. I remember sitting in a town waiting for the Albergue to open and watching the town come alive. I had never seen groceries sold from the back of a truck. These are daily groceries. I had never run for my life to get out of the way from a heard of cows. Lol. The wonder, the pain, the struggles, and the joy is all part of the Camino. Open up and get ready for the journey. Buen Camio

 

[Arn]

Risking to sound shallow/pithy her, but for me the meaning of life is to live life in a way that makes me happy and life better for others. SY

SY...you were going strong until you began worrying about other's happiness and betterment.

I 'm not advocating that others shouldn't be happy, but that we believe we can make more than a momentary difference in their world is like a dog chasing a fire truck. It seems like a good idea until the dog catches it and slides under its wheels.

One time my dad saw me in a far End of the garden while a party was going on. He came over and asked me why I was alone. My response was that no one wanted to talk with me in any case so I thought I'd just get out of their way so they could have a good time and be happy.

Dad offered that by standing over here I was making the impression I wanted to be alone and therefore their concern was making them unhappy.

Or the mom that says "You all do so much for me during the whole year. If you want me to be happy...please don't buy me roses this year for Mother's Day." Was anyone's life better for that?

A while back I spoke about the person that says they would be fine and happy if you/I would just go away. My response was not to push, but rather be ready when they are open to contact.

When on Camino and we see someone walking alone and looking sad. Do we go up to them to intrude into their space, or do we just nod knowing that if they needed intervention they would reach out. Do do otherwise may not make them happy, nor make their situation better.

To make someone happy, we must presume to know, in advance, what does indeed "make them happy". A Christmas wish list could make someone happy, but to dedicate a portion of our lives in the mission of making others happy, may not make our life, or those we care for truly better.

The Catholic Church made many parishioners happy when they sent lepers to the island of Molokai. Father (later Saint) Damian dedicated his life toward the leper's benefit.

That said, if you make an effort to do something for someone else, that you hope will make them happy or their life but temporarily better and it turns out your effort is either unappreciated, or has the opposite effect; I submit you will be unhappy by the result.

The Camino has a Way of returning like for like: when you come upon someone in pain and you provide a strip of comped, or an ace wrap, or some ibuprofen. Or, you are in a church and it's obvious a donation would be welcome and the pilgrim in front of you hasn't any change and you provide it. There is the chance your going out of your Way to assist will make both you and them happy and possibly the parishioners of the church lives better.

Happy is a great emotion...a healing emotion and "random acts of kindness" ...given and received...make the most people happy, hoping your efforts will have a lasting effect...well.

Hoping you are all happy because I posted this response and that you are feeling better for the effort.

With apologies to SY...I am always happy to read your posts and I always feel better having done so.

 

[amorfati1]

I liked this quote from British politician Rory Stewart, which I think resonates with many on the Camino

"Most of human history was conducted through contacts, made at walking pace…the pilgrimages to Compostela in Spain…to the source of the Ganges, and wandering dervishes, sadhus, and friars, who approached God on foot. The Buddha meditated by walking, and Wordsworth composed sonnets while striding beside the Lakes. Bruce Chatwin concluded from all these things that we would think and live better, and be closer to our purpose as humans, if we moved continually on foot across the surface of the earth."

thank YOU for another well-worthy entry into my li'l book of quotes!
i REALLY appreciate you sharing this poignant quote!

 

[Arn]

You may have hit the venerable nail on the head. Here's a TED talk about vulnerability that I ran across just today:
http://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability?language=en

And as an intriguing coincidence, I had no idea that my daughter has been reading this woman's book for weeks now.

I have spent the past 50 years analyzing behavior and figuring out what drives people to do some of the most heinous acts. Brene nails it!

Thank you Annie G.

 

[Arn]

how most curious - i came across her talk yesterday when i researched a talk to send to a co-worker. - -- see, the plot thickens already

here is the talk i researched - also has a transcript available:
http://www.ted.com/talks/susan_cain_the_power_of_introverts

Again, a powerful eye opener. So often it's the extroverts that appear to predominate the Forum. But, were we to look deep inside, we may find the Camino has melded the extrovert and the introvert into a Forum of pilgrims capable of putting our Best foot forward for the benefit of all, especially the newbies.

 

[Annie G]

I have spent the past 50 years analyzing behavior and figuring out what drives people to do some of the most heinous acts. Brene nails it!

Thank you Annie G.

Thank Kitsambler. She was the one who brought up the notion of vulnerability as a factor. I just googled it. Sometimes I look up words on google to remind me of their real meaning -- we throw language around sometimes without regard to their proper intent. In this case, Brene Brown's TED talk popped up. Serendipity reigns.