The booking ahead problem: Is it a problem?

[alexwalker]

Just another comment on booking ahead: As we all (except newbies) know, booking sites like booking.com only have a few beds at their disposal in each bookable place, so they state "full" at places where only their quota is full. Furthermore, most pilgrims do not speak Spanish, it seems, so they cannot contact albergues directly.

I called Casa Baztan in Uterga (for next Wednesday) directly this afternoon, and as I speak enough Spanish to order a bed (should be minimum knowledge in a foreign country), having a conversation and more, it took me a minute's talk with them (in Spanish) to get confirmation of a bed. They even sounded happy that I wanted to stay there.

This is actually a sad situation for both parties, brought on by uncertainty and lack of communication: Many albergues will have unsold beds, due to pilgrims not knowing the language, are walking by vacant beds, and hence are depending on booking sites.

The situation regarding getting a bed for the night is much better than imagined, IMHO.

Edit1: Furthermore: A good few places (municipals, donativos) do not allow prebooking: Check if they have a booking tel.no. If not, it is first come, first served. The good old way. It is still alive and kicking.

Edit2: I should also say: By using booking services on the net, you deprive albergues of a substantial profit: The booking fee they have to pay to international websites for their bed. Book directly if you are able. Support the local economy.

 

[trecile]

Furthermore: A good few places (municipals, donativos) do not allow prebooking: Check if they have a booking tel.no. If not, it is first come, first served.

Or you can check on Gronze or one of the Camino apps to see if they accept reservations.

 

[alexwalker]

Or you can check on Gronze or one of the Camino apps to see if they accept reservations.

My main point here is that many pilgrims rely on other sources than the albergues themselves about the booking situation, and it creates panic when booking.con (as @Tincatinker calls it) says that everytihing is sold out. This is not the factual situation. The factual situation is:

1. Pilgrims believe that a place is full when it's not, because the Internet says so.
2. Albergues and local businesses lose money bc pilgrims walk on in the belief that the village is full.
3. Pilgrims end up in an unneccesary stressing bed race where there is no bed race.

Edit: I should add a 4: If you are unable to find a bed at all: Talk to the locals: They will try their best to help you. But you must talk to them.

 

[J Willhaus]

I think the real issue here is that the Camino is a new experience for many people. It is not the usual way that a lot of people travel any more coming from overseas. Here in the US, I always have a reservation somewhere when I am traveling. Also in the US, I rarely sleep in a mixed dorm or a set of bunk beds with people I don't know (although in the past I have slept in dorms or tents with military service members in my unit.)

I don't usually make reservations on the Camino now that I feel comfortable with how it works, but it is hard to let go and trust the Camino for some people. Some people will never feel comfortable without a reservation somewhere and others still will only feel comfortable if they have private room and bath. Many people are afraid to try to call on the phone because they worry about their language skills.

I remember feeling this way on my first Camino several times and it took me a few days before I had the courage to make a call using my very terrible Spanish language skills. (I was still able to make a reservation despite the fact that our listing was under "los dos Americanos" and not our actual names.)

Here's a tip: It is guaranteed that you will meet pilgrims who are bilingual or who speak Spanish well enough to make a reservation. Ask them if they will help you make a call or ask your hospitalera/o the night before if they will help you. They can use your phone so they don't have use their own data or minutes if that is an issue.

 

[trecile]

4: If you are unable to find a bed at all: Talk to the locals: They will try their best to help you. But you must talk to them.

Last year a local woman gave my friend room and board when she couldn't find a place to stay on the Norte.

 

[dougfitz]

so they state "full" at places where only their quota is full.

The message that I see goes something like 'Sorry, unavailable for your dates on our site'. I have never seen a message that claims the property is full on booking.com or other booking engines when I have used them. Perhaps less regular travellers mis-interpret this message to mean that the property is full, but as @alexwalker notes, this is NOT what it means.

I suspect that the booking engines are very careful in their phrasing of these messages, not so much to confuse, but to ensure that they do not mislead. Unfortunately, this quasi-bureaucratic language appears to confuse some people.

 

[wisepilgrim]

This is a complex issue, and one that I have had many a conversation about with albergue owners. It is a topic I have spent a LOT of time wrestling with.

It has not occupied me as a pilgrim, because as a pilgrim I am rather staunchly a fan of taking things as they come... a stubborn trait I cannot shake.

Instead it has occupied me as someone who believes that in some small part the ability for pilgrims to take things as they come is being limited by the technologies we use. As an app developer the irony is not lost on me.

I came to the conclusion that the tools we have are not adequate and the comments above reinforce that. And so I created new tools with the idea that booking ahead is not necessarily the problem, but how far we book ahead. I created tools to help book ahead for today, and to leave tomorrow for tomorrow.

I will post more in the coming weeks but when I saw this post it made me want to speak up. I do not know if what I have created is of any desire but we will know soon enough. If you are a hospitalero and want to know more now, instead of when I come knocking on your door, send me a message.


**********
Just an extra bit here at the bottom to share one of the insights that led to the problem we are in, that does not get talked about too much: There are A LOT of albergues. When I started as a pilgrim nobody spoke of an albergue by name, we spoke of albergues by the city they were in... because there was only one in that city and nobody could be confused. Is there space for pilgrims in Boadilla? The way to find out was to call the albergue in boadilla. Simple. Now that Boadilla has two albergues, you may have to make two calls. And in larger places, many more calls.

On the other side of the operation there are A LOT of pilgrims. The one albergue in Boadilla used to have time to send the hospitalero out on morning chores, taking pamphlets to the camino to drum up business. Now that same hospitalero spends his time answering calls and WhatsApp. Those calls and messages only make good sense up until the point the albergue is full, and after that both the hospitalero and the pilgrim are only frustrating themselves.
**********

 

[Bradypus]

Instead it has occupied me as someone who believes that in some small part the ability for pilgrims to take things as they come is being limited by the technologies we use. As an app developer the irony is not lost on me.

I think there has been a vicious circle of growing dependence on modern technologies. When I walked my first Camino no one used mobile phones or the internet because for all practical purposes they did not exist. The guidebooks often did not even give phone numbers for refugios or list full postal addresses. So reservations were often impossible to make. Those who walked at that time simply accepted this vagueness as a given. Now that there is a vast amount of information and direct communication instantly available expectations have changed drastically. The reasoning seems to be that because something can be done then it must be done. I think pilgrims today are far more demanding and risk-averse than those of only a few years ago.

 

[alexwalker]

This is a complex issue, and one that I have had many a conversation about with albergue owners. It is a topic I have spent a LOT of time wrestling with.

It has not occupied me as a pilgrim, because as a pilgrim I am rather staunchly a fan of taking things as they come... a stubborn trait I cannot shake.

Instead it has occupied me as someone who believes that in some small part the ability for pilgrims to take things as they come is being limited by the technologies we use. As an app developer the irony is not lost on me.

I came to the conclusion that the tools we have are not adequate and the comments above reinforce that. And so I created new tools with the idea that booking ahead is not necessarily the problem, but how far we book ahead. I created tools to help book ahead for today, and to leave tomorrow for tomorrow.

I will post more in the coming weeks but when I saw this post it made me want to speak up. I do not know if what I have created is of any desire but we will know soon enough. If you are a hospitalero and want to know more now, instead of when I come knocking on your door, send me a message.


**********
Just an extra bit here at the bottom to share one of the insights that led to the problem we are in, that does not get talked about too much: There are A LOT of albergues. When I started as a pilgrim nobody spoke of an albergue by name, we spoke of albergues by the city they were in... because there was only one in that city and nobody could be confused. Is there space for pilgrims in Boadilla? The way to find out was to call the albergue in boadilla. Simple. Now that Boadilla has two albergues, you may have to make two calls. And in larger places, many more calls.

On the other side of the operation there are A LOT of pilgrims. The one albergue in Boadilla used to have time to send the hospitalero out on morning chores, taking pamphlets to the camino to drum up business. Now that same hospitalero spends his time answering calls and WhatsApp. Those calls and messages only make good sense up until the point the albergue is full, and after that both the hospitalero and the pilgrim are only frustrating themselves.
**********

Best post I have read in a long time.

Technology is IMHO depriving the former spontanituity of the Camino. Combine with the huge increase in firsttime pilgrims, uncertain and unknowing of the Camino's (former, "normal") walking, the willingness of albergues to accept booking for many days ahead (I can understand; many of them are businesses), and we have the hysteria we have witnessed lately.

Next week I start from Pamplona. I have booked (!, irony) my first night in Uterga, simply because I am a bit concerned about what is the reality right now "on the ground". After that, I refuse to book ahead: It will take away from me the stressless life I prefer on my walks.

If the Camino really has turned into a "need" to book (days) ahead, I believe I will take a train to Alicante and just enjoy the Mediterranean sun.

 

[efdoucette]

I am once again (2011) starting from St Jean Pied de Port. This time with an old friend that wants to experience the Camino. I have booked ahead the first 3 nights as I don't understand the reality on the ground, but have heard, and read, that there is a bed chase. Bizarre concept / reality to me. I hope, as we go along, that we can make it up as we go along. We'll see. I'll report back in the fall.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

It really doesn’t matter if you are phoning or using an app, you’re still booking ahead, even if just for the night. Nothing wrong with either.

If the local Albergue wants to increase their market share, they can easily release more beds to the platform. Or create their own website. (Bruma, on the Ingles for example). And many charge more if you book online than if you reserve by phone, or simply appear on the doorstep. They don’t have to loose out. You’re supporting the local business either way.
It’s like the cash or card argument. If the business chooses to adopt the technology, they have researched & accepted the pros and cons.

Flight centre’s are now few and far between, because the airline’s have chosen to go with online booking site’s. And so on.

And yes, I like to speak a few words of the local language, but it is often limited to not much more than please, thank you, toilet, water. I’m not being disrespectful. I’ve simply travelled a lot, and sometimes I’m only somewhere for a week or two, perhaps even spontaneously. Do I miss out? Definitely. But I still gain more than I miss.

When I first went backpacking 40 years ago, you just arrived in town and asked, (by mime if necessary) - often at the local tourist information, the taxi rank, even the police station. People in the street. You might be carrying the Lonely Planet, or have asked someone in a previous hostel for ideas. Or you slept under the bridge. Literally.

Yes, many people are more risk adverse, it’s simply a sign of the times.
But at least they’ve had the courage to get up off the couch, book a flight, and put on a backpack.

Do I prefer the old ways? Well, let’s just say that I prefer a comfortable bed to sleeping under a bridge !

 

[Bradypus]

Do I prefer the old ways? Well, let’s just say that I prefer a comfortable bed to sleeping under a bridge !

I have a pick-and-mix approach. I find my mobile phone and internet access very useful and I wouldn't choose to leave them behind these days. Hot showers are a modern luxury I very much enjoy! Some recent developments like luggage transport I can happily do without.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

@Bradypus , ditto to all of the above!

 

[Lynnhardy]

Just another comment on booking ahead: As we all (except newbies) know, booking sites like booking.com only have a few beds at their disposal in each bookable place, so they state "full" at places where only their quota is full. Furthermore, most pilgrims do not speak Spanish, it seems, so they cannot contact albergues directly.

I called Casa Baztan in Uterga (for next Wednesday) directly this afternoon, and as I speak enough Spanish to order a bed (should be minimum knowledge in a foreign country), having a conversation and more, it took me a minute's talk with them (in Spanish) to get confirmation of a bed. They even sounded happy that I wanted to stay there.

This is actually a sad situation for both parties, brought on by uncertainty and lack of communication: Many albergues will have unsold beds, due to pilgrims not knowing the language, are walking by vacant beds, and hence are depending on booking sites.

The situation regarding getting a bed for the night is much better than imagined, IMHO.

Edit1: Furthermore: A good few places (municipals, donativos) do not allow prebooking: Check if they have a booking tel.no. If not, it is first come, first served. The good old way. It is still alive and kicking.

Edit2: I should also say: By using booking services on the net, you deprive albergues of a substantial profit: The booking fee they have to pay to international websites for their bed. Book directly if you are able. Support the local economy.

I know we should all speak some Spanish but it can be difficult when you don’t fully understand reply’s on phone. A good idea I find is WhatsApp albergues in Spanish for a bed and goggle translate question and answers to reserve.

 

[Silvermomma]

I have a pick-and-mix approach. I find my mobile phone and internet access very useful and I wouldn't choose to leave them behind these days. Hot showers are a modern luxury I very much enjoy! Some recent developments like luggage transport I can happily do without.

The normalization of luggage transport also contributes to the booking ahead problems.

And no one has mentioned the people who book several places for the same night (often by phone) but don't bother to cancel the extras.

 

[Kathie63119]

I’ve walked only a single short Camino. Among my goals was to destress and to be present. That meant knowing in advance that I had a place ready for me to lay my head at night. I booked every night ahead. I’ll do the same if I’m fortunate to walk again. Buen camino a todos!

 

[Lydia Gillen]

Starting in 2007 I never booked, did not even know that one could unless you stayed in a posh hotel.
In some way there was always stress, would I get a bed??? and young tall men kept passing me by. I think I must be the most passed-by pilgrim every to walk the Camino.
Now I cannot carry my pack. God bless Tuitrans and all the companies that run such efficient services. Just getting my rucksack from the car to the drop counter in the airport is such an effort. and this years training I am even finding my little day bag an effort
But I am a pilgrim. I leave home and travel to a place I consider blessed. I love the Camino and have been so blessed along it. I am sad to think that this year will probably be my last.
So I book, using the phone for places I have been in before. and being glad to use booking.com for others.
I find Gronze great for reviews

 

[truenorthpilgrm]

I think pilgrims today are far more demanding and risk-averse than those of only a few years ago.

Exactly. Yesterday on this thread, I attempted to type out a comment but kept deleting it...couldn't find the words to describe what I was feeling. That is the sense I get nowadays, and it's pretty sad. Takes away the real magic of the camino, imho.

In 2016, I would either call an albergue, send an email or (gasp!) show up to an open albergue. It worked for me. I didn't even know booking.com existed until a few years ago. I've only ever used them to book a pensión, or a nice boutique hotel on a rest day. But for an albergue? Never.

 

[markie6]

My caminos have only been during busy season and while I have booked St Jean & Roncesvalles I have never needed to book any further. Some people like to know where they will be staying, others like the freedom to choose where as they get there or when they get tired

It's not a problem ... and if you want it's a problem you can overcome with whatsapp or a little Spanish

 

[lt56ny]

I think there has been a vicious circle of growing dependence on modern technologies. When I walked my first Camino no one used mobile phones or the internet because for all practical purposes they did not exist. The guidebooks often did not even give phone numbers for refugios or list full postal addresses. So reservations were often impossible to make. Those who walked at that time simply accepted this vagueness as a given. Now that there is a vast amount of information and direct communication instantly available expectations have changed drastically. The reasoning seems to be that because something can be done then it must be done. I think pilgrims today are far more demanding and risk-averse than those of only a few years ago.

I could not agree with you more. Whe I first walked in 2012 and even again from Le Puy in 2015 I had no telephone at all. I found out about the Brierley guide about 3 weeks before I left. Luckily the bookstore in my town did me a big favor and got the guide for me rushed. It arrived about 3 days before I left. In 2015 I had a skinny little Michelin Guide for France that was of very little use really. Didn't have the Brierley for my for Spain. It was just fine. I remember even in 2012 most towns especially on the Meseta had one albergue only. Bigger cities of course more. I was amazed at how much things grew in 2015 but compared to recent growth, well we all know that answer. WIthout a doubt pilgrims are far more demanding today. My first camino and to an extend my second, we were happy we had a bed somewhere and a roof over our heads. I know from my own experience pilgrims would share food way more often during the day. I rarely see that today. We shared food because we weren't even sure where the next village was and if anything would be open. Especially on the Meseta.

 

[lt56ny]

Best post I have read in a long time.

Technology is IMHO depriving the former spontanituity of the Camino. Combine with the huge increase in firsttime pilgrims, uncertain and unknowing of the Camino's (former, "normal") walking, the willingness of albergues to accept booking for many days ahead (I can understand; many of them are businesses), and we have the hysteria we have witnessed lately.

Next week I start from Pamplona. I have booked (!, irony) my first night in Uterga, simply because I am a bit concerned about what is the reality right now "on the ground". After that, I refuse to book ahead: It will take away from me the stressless life I prefer on my walks.

If the Camino really has turned into a "need" to book (days) ahead, I believe I will take a train to Alicante and just enjoy the Mediterranean sun.

Or you can follow my itinerary for this October. Start on the Aragones. In Puente La Reina bus back to Pamplona and on to Madrid. Walk the Madrid. In Sahagun but over to Porto and walk the Coastal again and hope this time I won't have to swim the coastal like I did last November

 

[Lynnhardy]

The normalization of luggage transport also contributes to the booking ahead problems.

And no one has mentioned the people who book several places for the same night (often by phone) but don't bother to cancel the extras.

Really wish people would stop that. Albergues will lose money and stop doing reserves with no payment and ruin it for everyone

 

[trecile]

Really wish people would stop that. Albergues will lose money and stop doing reserves with no payment and ruin it for everyone

Many of them already have stopped taking reservations without advance payment, or have gone to using sites like booking.com to protect themselves against this practice.

 

[Walkalong]

On our first Caminos we had no plans, no guide, no phone, no reservations, no credential and no experience of the Camino, and we had no problems. A few blisters, but no problems what so ever. Most relaxing and stress free thing I'd done in many, many years.

Perhaps it is letting go of self imposed constraints, or perhaps avoiding touragrino season.

 

[David Tallan]

I have a pick-and-mix approach. I find my mobile phone and internet access very useful and I wouldn't choose to leave them behind these days. Hot showers are a modern luxury I very much enjoy! Some recent developments like luggage transport I can happily do without.

It is the same for me, but I recognize there may come a time when I will need luggage transport, too, and be happy that it is available, if I want to walk a Camino. I expect at that time I will choose the luggage transport rather than give up Caminos entirely. They will still have enough to offer, even if I am no longer carrying my backpack.

 

[J Willhaus]

It is the same for me, but I recognize there may come a time when I will need luggage transport, too, and be happy that it is available, if I want to walk a Camino. I expect at that time I will choose the luggage transport rather than give up Caminos entirely. They will still have enough to offer, even if I am no longer carrying my backpack.

We are there @David Tallan at a cross roads. Phil can't carry his pack a very long distance any more. It makes us very sad, but we have made decisions to volunteer more as a result. I will continue to walk, but perhaps by myself much of the time. The places we love are places that don't accept luggage transport or reservations. It is an adjustment.