The American Camino

[rodneyegge]

The American Camino should be from Finisterra following the Camino backwards through Spain and France to Paris. This is the route that future President John Adams took at the height of the War of Independence. His desperate, amazing journey was to seek help from the French king and his success marked a turning point in the war that created the new nation of the USA.

 

[Sailor]

Thank you Rodney and welcome to the forum. I believe El Camino Americano should be from Ferrol to Paris [covering parts of Camino Ingles, Camino Frances, Camino del Norte, Chemin de Paris]. More information about the incredible adventure on the link [charts showing John Adam's path through Spain and France included]. Good luck with El Camino Americano, y que la luz de Dios alumbre su camino.

https://allthingsliberty.com/2016/11/remarkable-spanish-pilgrimage-john-adams/

p.s. Let me add this. Two future American presidents took part of this adventure [John Adams, our 2nd president, and his son John Quincy Adams, our 6th president].

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

Hi , you can walk all the Camino's back -wards when you want.
Why chould the name be changed in "American " Camino .

Wish you well,Peter.

 

[KinkyOne]

It looks like he walked part of Ingles, crossed Primitivo in Baamonde, walked Frances, turn onto Via de Bayona in Burgos, ended up in Bilbao, then take Norte and into France. Quite a Camino Combo

 

[Pelegrin]

Interesting description of life in Spain at that time.
John Adams says about the horses in Ferrol:
"very few Horses and those very small and miserably poor"
Yes, the Galician breed is very small.

 

[Kathor1]

Why chould the name be changed in "American " Camino.

IMHO, the American Pilgrims association did a much better job at describing John Adams' journey through Spain to take up his diplomat's job in Paris and his impressions of social conditions in Spain and his view on the Catholic clergy. It also has a better visual presentation of his journey in comparison to the Camino Frances.

https://americanpilgrims.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/essays_john_adams_camino.pdf

Edited in Dec 2019 to repair broken link.

 

[wcsjms]

ummmmmmmmmmm .... no

Buen Camino !

 

[Rebekah Scott]

I was a little amazed to read that he, as a Puritan, attended High Mass in Leon Cathedral on the Feast of Epiphany (6 Jan) and described how everyone kneeled at one point but he refused to do so and just bowed and mocked the (assumed) reaction of the bishop.

John Adams came from a long line of Puritans, but he was not a Puritan himself. He was a Unitarian, a son of the Enlightenment. Like many Unitarians, Adams rejected the Christian precepts of the Trinity, the divinity of Jesus, and the inerrancy of the Bible, but he respected the right of all Christians to worship as they pleased. This included feeling free to attend services of other faith groups, and freely express his opinions later on in his diaries and correspondence.

 

[Kanga]

I find this bit of history fascinating. Thank you @Kathar1na for the link and to @Rebekah Scott for the extra information - it has sent me on a quest to find out more. Wonderful to read John Adam's account of conditions on the Camino.

 

[oursonpolaire]

I do not know if this will show, but it is the statue of John Adams in Bilbao.

 

[jgpryde]

I do not know if this will show, but it is the statue of John Adams in Bilbao.

It did show and thanks for posting it. I too captured this shot and wondered about the back story.

-Jason

 

[Jersey]

Also of note. In his writings on his journey John Adams complained loudly about the bedbugs lol

 

[KinkyOne]

Also of note. In his writings on his journey John Adams complained loudly about the bedbugs lol

Hahaha, so are we. Seems like after all this years the issue didn't change

 

[Pelegrin]

So on December 27 1779; John Adams did Betanzos- Castilliano (A Castellana) where he discribes the poor conditions of the house where he stayed . A Castellana is 10 kms from where I am (It is part of the same municipality, Concello de Aranga). Wow!!!
Also an interesting point for me is when he defines the hills between Ferrol and Coruña as "very high mountains" and the mountains in O Cebreiro as "the grandest profusion of wild irregular Mountains I ever saw:". That reveals that he didn´t know the Appalachians and probably had nothing to do with the group (included Washington) that marked territories beyond the Appalachians before the independence (against British laws).

 

[pilgr]

It should also be noted that when John Adams arrived in France, there to solicit France's support for the new republic, the French were incredulous that Adams didn't speak French! I imagine it might be a similar experience for me as I possibly embark on the Geneva to SJPP route.

 

[oursonpolaire]

It should also be noted that when John Adams arrived in France, there to solicit France's support for the new republic, the French were incredulous that Adams didn't speak French! I imagine it might be a similar experience for me as I possibly embark on the Geneva to SJPP route.

Apparently he soon picked up the language well enough to write in it (remember, he had Latin as a base) and this is where his son, later president, John Quincy Adams, became fluent in French. While four other presidents were fluent in French (Thomas Jefferson, John Monroe and the two Roosevelts), no US president has been more than competent in Spanish (Carter and George W Bush). Still, if Adams spent more time in Bilbao, he might have become the first US president to speak Euzkadi.

 

[oursonpolaire]

While Canadians are loath to comment on US presidents, I believe that neither Presidents Lincoln and Obama had no foreign language knowledge-- indeed, Obama declared that he was ashamed of this lack on his own part. An ability to function in other languages was for many many years a strong function of US university graduates.

On the Camino, I have met many US pilgrims who had a fair capacity in Spanish (and they were most helpful to those of us whose Castilian is no better than that of a 7-year old Spaniard), and several whose French was excellent (and a Kansian lass whose Japanese made her the walking interpreter for an elderly pilgrim couple from Japan).

 

[t2andreo]

I have read this thread with interest. My two-cents worth is that "construction" of a "Camino Americano" might be feasible if the route mentioned above were REVERSED so that the beginning was in Paris, let's state Notre Dame for consistency, and so that the end point was Santiago. There would have to be historically based alternative starting points, so that folks not having two months or more to walk from Paris could still do this route.

For a Camino to be part of the Camino de Santiago "network," per se, the end must be at the Apostle's tomb, the Cathedral. The "official" marker designating the end point is at the center of Plaza Obradoiro, immediately in front of the Cathedral. Still, this route has significant political and historical value, mostly to US citizens.

All in all, it might be interesting to cobble this route together using a combination of French routes Grand Randonee (GR) and the various established routes already acknowledged as being part of the Camino de Santiago system or network of routes, all terminating at Santiago.

I hope this helps.

 

[Tigger]

I have read this thread with interest. My two-cents worth is that "construction" of a "Camino Americano" might be feasible if the route mentioned above were REVERSED so that the beginning was in Paris, let's state Notre Dame for consistency, and so that the end point was Santiago. There would have to be historically based alternative starting points, so that folks not having two months or more to walk from Paris could still do this route.

For a Camino to be part of the Camino de Santiago "network," per se, the end must be at the Apostle's tomb, the Cathedral. The "official" marker designating the end point is at the center of Plaza Obradoiro, immediately in front of the Cathedral. Still, this route has significant political and historical value, mostly to US citizens.

All in all, it might be interesting to cobble this route together using a combination of French routes Grand Randonee (GR) and the various established routes already acknowledged as being part of the Camino de Santiago system or network of routes, all terminating at Santiago.

I hope this helps.

Small points, his pilgrimage was towards political support and money, his criticism of the Catholic Church palpable and he regretted never having visited San Diago, though the history is wonderfully fascinating and worth more general interest and kudos. Notwithstanding it may have some value and meaning for many American pilgrims. Thanks for this thread everyone.

 

[wayfarer]

Please stay on topic and try not to stray into politics.

 

[pilgr]

Please stay on topic and try not to stray into politics.

My bad....apologies to all.

 

[nycwalking]

Thank you for post. Americans on camino for centuries: Nice.

 

[dougfitz]

I would have thought that there were many spiritually significant places in the Americas that would be candidates for an 'American Pilgrimage', and no need to have such a thing in Europe. Besides, an American pilgrimage to Paris seems rather passe - perhaps an idea a little past its prime!

 

[Bob from L.A. !]

The American Camino should be from Finisterra following the Camino backwards through Spain and France to Paris. This is the route that future President John Adams took at the height of the War of Independence. His desperate, amazing journey was to seek help from the French king and his success marked a turning point in the war that created the new nation of the USA.

Who knew??????????? Not me !!!
Thanks for enlightening me on this topic

 

[Kathor1]

John Adams came from a long line of Puritans, but he was not a "Puritan" himself. He was a Unitarian, a son of the Enlightenment.

Thank you for correcting this. Before I posted, I had seen that John Adams was a Congregationalist or a Unitarian during his life but coming from a cultural background that, for centuries, knew only Catholics and Protestants (called Lutherans, Calvinists, Huguenots, Protestants, Evangelicals etc, depending on the country and the language), I had assumed that Puritan was good enough to characterize him as a non-Catholic Christian .

This included feeling free to attend services of other faith groups.

That's an interesting way of putting it and helps me to better understand some of the discussions I had followed earlier. Again, my cultural background is such that I found it a bit unusual for the late 1700s. Although I don't really know much about the situation in the majority of European countries, my feeling is that Catholics and Protestants (in the generic sense) kept pretty much strictly separate throughout the centuries - when they weren't killing each other for mainly politico-soci0-economic reasons in the name of religion - and this changed only in the 1960s perhaps with the ecumenical movement.

So John Adams never visited Santiago de Compostela nor did he ever mention that he saw a pilgrim going to Saint James. From what I can tell he just summarized in his diary what his Spanish guide told him about the Saint James pilgrimage. Did John Adams ever express his views on pilgrimages, relics and saints?

 

[t2andreo]

My comments were not intended to infer that this SHOULD be done. Personally, I do not think the purpose and history underlying the notion warrants the effort.

Once one starts adding "custom Caminos" to suit any secular purpose, the original value of the Camino de Santiago, as one of the top four pilgrimage destinations in all of Christianity is seriously reduced. I fear increased secularization of the Camino, for ANY reason.

As regards an American pilgrimage actually in the US, there are many sites one MIGHT make pilgrimage to. However, unlike the more than 1.000 year history of religious pilgrimage across all of Europe, we have no similar tradition. There is no understanding, infrastructure or route-marking. For all intents and purposes, a pilgrim with a rucksack is more likely to be stopped by police for being a vagrant than for any other reason. Walking long distances, as on a pilgrimage, except in the woods, is simply contrary to the domestic American, and likely Canadian condition.

As far as I know, the only semi-religious-inspired effort to develop something similar to the Camino de Santiago in the US is a California-based effort to link the Spanish-developed chain of 16th century Spanish missions in Southern California, from the Mexican border near San Diego, North to about San Francisco. However, I do not have more information.

I am also handicapped, being in Santiago for a month and typing this on my iPhone.

I hope this helps.

 

[Purple Backpack]

... the only semi-religious-inspired effort to develop something similar to the Camino de Santiago in the US is a California-based effort to link the Spanish-developed chain of 16th century Spanish missions in Southern California...

Chimayo is a 30 mile pilgrimage from Santa Fe, New Mexico to a chapel outside the city. I haven't done it yet so would be interested to hear if anyone else has. It has the added benefit of starting in Santa Fe, a gem of a town filled with art, food and history.

WinterPilgrim.blogspot.com walked a route from St Louis to Chimayo. Her blog makes great late night reading.

http://www.elsantuariodechimayo.us/Santuario/PilgrimChild.html

 

[nycwalking]

Chimayo is a 30 mile pilgrimage from Santa Fe, New Mexico to a chapel outside the city. I haven't done it yet so would be interested to hear if anyone else has. It has the added benefit of starting in Santa Fe, a gem of a town filled with art, food and history.

WinterPilgrim.blogspot.com walked a route from St Louis to Chimayo. Her blog makes great late night reading.

http://www.elsantuariodechimayo.us/Santuario/PilgrimChild.html

Thank you for this info. Never heard of it.

 

[Sailor]

. . . As far as I know, the only semi-religious-inspired effort to develop something similar to the Camino de Santiago in the US is a California-based effort to link the Spanish-developed chain of 16th century Spanish missions in Southern California, from the Mexican border near San Diego, North to about San Francisco . . .

Thank you T2andreo for your note and thank you for your leadership. The trail is El Camino Real, covering 21 missions [in California]. The southern terminus is Mission San Diego de Alcala [in San Diego, about 1 mile from where I used to work] and the northern terminus is Mission San Francisco Solano de Sonoma [north of San Francisco]. Most of the original camino is now covered by highways and the caminantes must "adapt, improvise, and overcome" to complete this camino. I know of a [basic] guide for this camino, written by Ron Briery [ link: https://tinyurl.com/ycjv8zjk ] and I have read about caminantes completing this camino. In my opinion, this is a good camino for American history aficionados [it is in my bucket list]. Buena suerte, y que la luz de Dios alumbre su camino.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

If Adams' path was turned into a walking trail it would be more apropos to call it "The Adams Trail," methinks.
IMHO, the true American pilgrimage is down the Blues Trail to Memphis, Tennesee. The Graceland. To visit the tomb of The King!

 

[sjhannes]

The American Camino should be from Finisterra following the Camino backwards through Spain and France to Paris. This is the route that future President John Adams took at the height of the War of Independence. His desperate, amazing journey was to seek help from the French king and his success marked a turning point in the war that created the new nation of the USA.

John Adams was not on pilgrimage-- he was inconveniently shipwrecked and just trying to get to his destination. Hence the grumbling. Pertinent point.

 

[MichelleElynHogan]

LOL, notice how us Canadians are keeping out of this one?

 

[Jeff Crawley]

LOL, notice how us Canadians are keeping out of this one?

That's because you won the last tussle with the USA. The score, I believe, was 18 - 12?

 

[Jeff Crawley]

I would have thought that there were many spiritually significant places in the Americas that would be candidates for an 'American Pilgrimage', and no need to have such a thing in Europe. Besides, an American pilgrimage to Paris seems rather passe - perhaps an idea a little past its prime!

You've never been to Normandy then Doug?

 

[dougfitz]

You've never been to Normandy then Doug?

I have more interest in the battlefields where Australian troops were engaged. I would rather satisfy my interest in seeing them first.

And I still think that an 'American Pilgrimage' destination would be best found in the Americas.

 

[MichaelC]

The links were fascinating - thanks for posting this!

As for an "American pilgrimage" - wouldn't that be the route American pilgrims took to Santiago, in the same way that the Francès is the route the French took?

Which, I would guess, would mean that there probably isn't an American route per se. Most Catholics originally arrived in the US dirt poor and fleeing violence or hunger ... I doubt any had much interest in returning to the Old World on any type of pilgrimage!

Adam's descriptions of how poor the towns were in Spain reinforced something I've read elsewhere. During the Middle Ages this part of Spain was a buffer zone between the northern Catholic kingdoms and the Islamic el Andalus, and wasn't as populated compared to other kingdoms and states in Europe until after the Reconquista.

 

[t2andreo]

Let's be mindful of getting off topic folks. Doing a "pilgrimage" to Coleville-sur-Mere overlooking the Normandy beaches, or to any other war cemetery (sadly there are too many) is, I submit, getting close to "the line."

Let me clarify by stating that I have a distant cousin, who I never met, buried in the American Cemetery at Coleville-sur-Mere. A combat engineer, he did not make it off Omaha beach on June 6, 1944. Some years ago, as a favor to my aging parents who knew him in their childhood, I made a "pilgrimage" to honor his memory and visit his grave.

However, and ''this is where I fear we stray in the forum, is when we conflate a visit to an honored location, religious or not, with the Camino de Santiago. Let us try to keep separate the walking, cycling pilgrimage of at least the final 100/200 kilometers to the tomb of the Apostle Saint James, at Santiago de Compostela, from other pursuits. No matter how worthy they may be, they are not (at least IMHO) in the same category.

I hope this helps.

 

[dougfitz]

However, and ''this is where I fear we stray in the forum, is when we conflate a visit to an honored location, religious or not, with the Camino de Santiago. Let us try to keep separate the walking, cycling pilgrimage of at least the final 100/200 kilometers to the tomb of the Apostle Saint James, at Santiago de Compostela, from other pursuits. No matter how worthy they may be, they are not (at least IMHO) in the same category.

I think we need to be very careful extending this line of thinking. The forum has been a discussion place for many pilgrimage routes leading to 'classic' Christian destinations in Europe as well as non-Christian pilgrimages and modern pilgrimage routes such as those that have emerged in Canada and Australia. This inclusive practice is, to my mind, one of the strengths of our community.

For me, @MichaelC's earlier post is the most post powerful argument against the notion of an American Camino in Europe - it just doesn't exist in the same context as the Camino Ingles, Camino Frances, etc. One man, his sons and other members of his entourage on a diplomatic mission to France has not resulted in any flow of US citizens seeking to honour Adams and his endeavours that might have led to such a pilgrimage being recognized.

I have no difficulty with someone wanting to reenact Adams' journey, perhaps without the feasting and entertainment he seems to have enjoyed at the expense of local dignitaries. But this much of @t2andreo's concerns seem to be on the mark - lets not conflate such a reenactment with a pilgrimage.

 

[walkingman06]

I would have thought that there were many spiritually significant places in the Americas that would be candidates for an 'American Pilgrimage', and no need to have such a thing in Europe. Besides, an American pilgrimage to Paris seems rather passe - perhaps an idea a little past its prime!

As a matter of fact we do!
http://www.elsantuariodechimayo.us/Pilgrim/index.html

Buen Camino!

 

[Kanga]

No reason why there should not be a "John Adams' Walk", in the same way as there is the Robert Louis Stevenson Trail in France and Lord Byron's Journey in Albania. (and btw spell check obviously disagrees with me, it kept changing John Adams' Walk to John Adams' Wake!)

 

[Pelegrin]

From Betanzos to O Cebreiro he followed the current itinerary of N VI highway:
Betanzos - Castilliano (A Castellana?) - Lugo --- Galliego ( Baralla ?)--- Pedrafita do Cebreiro, So it would be a new Camino.
What is incredible for me is that on the "road" Madrid - Coruña, John Adams had to stay in a house without a chimney.
There weren´t any pensions on the road?. It is amazing.
There were different reasons for poverty. I am not going to tell them here because this would go against forum rules but didn´t have to do with people laziness.

 

[Kathor1]

From Betanzos to O Cebreiro he followed the current itinerary of N VI highway.

He also followed the current itinerary of the N VI highway from Ponferrada to Astorga, instead of the Camino Frances. John Adams does not provide details but his young son John Quincy had to keep a diary and writes:

• [We] dined at Ponfarada [=Ponferrada]. After dinner we went through several more villages and arrived at a little village called Benbibere [=Bembibre] at about 6 o'clock. We shall lodge at this place tonight.

The next morning they left for Astorga which they reached in the late afternoon. So no Manjarin, Cruz de Ferro, Foncebadon or Rabanal for those who want to follow in John Adams' footsteps or rather, in his coach trails.