The 90-day Rule

[jsalt]

I am planning so many caminos for next year, to make up for not being able to go for 2 years, but it has suddenly occurred to me that we’ve had Brexit in the meantime. I live in South Africa, but travel on a British passport. Can Brits still travel freely in Europe, or are they now at the mercy of the 90 day rule?

 

[sugargypsy]

Can Brits still travel freely in Europe, or are they now at the mercy of the 90 day rule?

Since Britain is not part of the Schengen Area and the EU, you can unfortunately only stay for visits of up to 90 days during an 180‑day period since 2021, as far as I know. Unless you have a visa from Spain which allows you to stay longer.

But, if you plan carefully and don't want to stay more than 6 months during the complete next year, it still might be possible, that you can hopefully walk all the Caminos which you want to .

About how to count those days, check here: https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/visa-calculator/

And there's been just recently another thread which might help you further.

 

[Isca-camigo]

I'm in the same boat as you @jsalt, I am about to change my work circumstances and might have a foot in the UK and 1 in Spain, the next couple of months will tell, but I'm already looking at the Caminos I want to do, I seem to have started off with the addiction for them in 2010,purposely been more subdued for them from 2015-2019 to allow my non Camino life to develop and now seem to have got the yellow arrow fever again.

 

[jsalt]

About how to count those days, check here: https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/visa-calculator/

Thank you so much! That calculator is brilliant.

When I add up the number of days I’m planning to be in Europe next year it comes to over 90 .

But when I put the dates into the calculator, the rolling 180 days period kicks in, and I have 19 days left.

Yay!

 

[C clearly]

if you plan carefully and don't want to stay more than 6 months during the complete next year, it still might be possible

But when I put the dates into the calculator, the rolling 180 days period kicks in, and I have 19 days left.

So you are planning at least 2 separate trips, spaced apart?

 

[jsalt]

So you are planning at least 2 separate trips, spaced apart?

Yes, in April/May and again in Sep/Oct .

 

[Former member 95219]

Isn’t everybody (irrespective whether in EU or not) limited to 90 days in Spain unless they apply for residency? That’s my take but I am confused. I understand the 90 in 180 day rule.

 

[sugargypsy]

Isn’t everybody (irrespective whether in EU or not) limited to 90 days in Spain unless they apply for residency? That’s my take but I am confused. I understand the 90 in 180 day rule.

Yes and no. You are right, that any member of the EU / Schengen Area can officially stay in Spain for instance for 90 days only (though there's no 90 in 180 day rule).

If an EU-member wants to stay in another EU-host country for more than those three months, administrative obligations apply. For example, one needs to register in the host country. One has to inquire directly with the host country or with the local authority which documents one needs for registration. But basically there won't be a problem to stay longer, for travel reasons or to work there. There is no need for a visa, which members of a Third Country need.

EU citizens and citizens from Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway or Switzerland are exempt from this obligation. It must be clear though that that person will not live at the expense of the host country's welfare system. You also need a health insurance.

Members of the EU can stay up to 5 years in another EU-country. If EU citizens stay in an EU-host country for more than five years without interruption, they will receive a permanent residence permit. A residence card must be renewed every ten years.

 

[VNwalking]

Members of the EU can stay up to 5 years in another EU-country. If EU citizens stay in a EU-host country for more than five years without interruption, they will receive a permanent residence permit

Oh, to be European...

 

[Kathor1]

If an EU-member wants to stay in another EU-host country for more than those three months, administrative obligations apply. For example, one needs to register in the host country

Just one small comment. It is up to each EU country whether they impose an obligation to register their presence or not after a certain amount of time, usually 3 months. Many do but not all. The UK never did this afaik while they were still in the EU. Many EU countries do this because their own nationals also have to register at the place where they live. Same treatment for everyone.

 

[Vince Rollason]

I am planning so many caminos for next year, to make up for not being able to go for 2 years, but it has suddenly occurred to me that we’ve had Brexit in the meantime. I live in South Africa, but travel on a British passport. Can Brits still travel freely in Europe, or are they now at the mercy of the 90 day rule?

Hi
I am afraid that British passport holders are subject to the 90-day rule. I was born in the Uk and have lived here all my life and am a UK passport holder. I was planning to walk the Via Francigena next year when I was made aware of this. Luckily my mother was born in the Republic of Ireland and this entitled me to apply for an Irish passport which I have now received to get me round this rule.
Buen Camino
Vince

 

[jsalt]

Isn’t everybody (irrespective whether in EU or not) limited to 90 days in Spain unless they apply for residency? That’s my take but I am confused. I understand the 90 in 180 day rule.

No. All my South African-born friends have to apply for a VERY expensive Schengen Visa before they can come on a camino with me. They have to travel to Pretoria (4 hours away) to make the application in person. It is a mission. And if their application is unsuccessful (for any reason) there is no refund.

 

[naplesdon]

Oh no. All my South African-born friends have to apply for a VERY expensive Schengen Visa before they can come on a camino with me. They have to travel to Pretoria (4 hours away) to make the application in person. It is a mission. And if their application is unsuccessful (for any reason) there is no refund.

jsalt,
Were you able to communicate with Casa Magica? it appear they received my email but never responded to me. I hope all is well with them.

 

[jsalt]

jsalt,
Were you able to communicate with Casa Magica? it appear they received my email but never responded to me. I hope all is well with them.

I have emailed them, but haven't received a reply yet.

 

[naplesdon]

I have emailed them, but haven't received a reply yet.

On another thread someone asked whether anyone knew about any newly opened albergues that had failed due to the Covid pandemic, Reb wrote she knew of two. I hope Casa Magica is not one of them because the place was "magic" indeed.

 

[Bernice M]

Since Britain is not part of the Schengen Area and the EU, you can unfortunately only stay for visits of up to 90 days during an 180‑day period since 2021, as far as I know. Unless you have a visa from Spain which allows you to stay longer.

But, if you plan carefully and don't want to stay more than 6 months during the complete next year, it still might be possible, that you can hopefully walk all the Caminos which you want to .

About how to count those days, check here: https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/visa-calculator/

And there's been just recently another thread which might help you further.

Just remember that some countries have separate arrangements with individual countries that are also part of the Schengen area. Those provisions apply separately, although not twice over in an individual country. It means an NZer, for example, can move freely from one country to another, staying the maximum time in each country with which NZ has separate arrangements and pretty much stay full-time in Europe without ever coming home. It also can assist with long caminos, eg starting in France.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Just remember that some countries have separate arrangements with individual countries that are also part of the Schengen area. Those provisions apply separately, although not twice over in an individual country. It means an NZer, for example, can move freely from one country to another, staying the maximum time in each country with which NZ has separate arrangements and pretty much stay full-time in Europe without ever coming home. It also can assist with long caminos, eg starting in France.

Not entirely freely. The method of entry might be required to be by land for instance. So you have to be careful which country you enter from. That means perhaps countries A, B or C. You might have already had your extended stay in A, and to get to B (also by land) there may not be an extended visa option. To enter via C you may need to fly into C from D and the only flight from D to C is with a stop-over in E which doesn't allow an extended stay.

I'm not saying you can't extend your stay in Europe but you have to be careful of how each county's rules work.

 

[lunna]

Leaving aside COVID-related restrictions, if an EU passport holder wishes to stay in Spain (or another EU country) for longer than 90 days, does the person have to provide a reason why he or she wishes to remain in that country for a longer period of time, or is it just a simple matter of registering (no reason/explanation as to why)?

Also, does the 90-day rule apply to 90 days in one country or in the EU itself?

 

[Kathor1]

if an EU passport holder wishes to stay in Spain (or another EU country) for longer than 90 days, does the person have to provide a reason why he or she wishes to remain in that country for a longer period of time, or is it just a simple matter of registering (no reason/explanation as to why)?

Also, does the 90-day rule apply to 90 days in one country or in the EU itself?

There is not really an answer to your question. The rules are made for EU nationals who have a fixed address in an EU country, i.e. a main address where they live, and not for people who roam around all the time.

You can move and settle in any EU country and usually you need to register after 90 days, in some countries even earlier. If you do not have employment, do not study, and do not actively look for work (there's a time limit as to how long you can do this), then you must show that you have sufficient resources and sickness insurance so that you do not become a burden on the social services of the host country. These are the only conditions you must fulfil. The usual case are EU pensioners who move to another EU country and take their pension AND their sickness insurance with them from their previous EU country to their new EU country. No other conditions apply.

I may be not up to date on this but I think that pensioners in particular often stay on vacation for more than 3 months in another country and don't register. This may be the same for the owners of second homes in another country. I have homes in two EU countries and nobody checks how much time I spend in each of them. If I had no home, nobody would check on my time spent in any EU country either.

The thing is that normal EU nationals need a bank account and electricity and water and telecommunication etc etc and more often than not you need to prove your residence when you subscribe to these services, hence you need to register at your local town hall.

I had to bring my proof of residence (not just proof of ID) when I went for my Covid-19 vaccination. You won't get a driving licence without proof of residence (not just proof of ID). And so on.

 

[Former member 95219]

No. All my South African-born friends have to apply for a VERY expensive Schengen Visa before they can come on a camino with me. They have to travel to Pretoria (4 hours away) to make the application in person. It is a mission. And if their application is unsuccessful (for any reason) there is no refund.

Yes I am aware of the restrictions for ZA folks but my question was about UK passport holders.

 

[lunna]

There is not really an answer to your question. The rules are made for EU nationals who have a fixed address in an EU country, i.e. a main address where they live, and not for people who roam around all the time.

You can move and settle in any EU country and usually you need to register after 90 days, in some countries even earlier. If you do not have employment, do not study, and do not actively look for work (there's a time limit as to how long you can do this), then you must show that you have sufficient resources and sickness insurance so that you do not become a burden on the social services of the host country. These are the only conditions you must fulfil. The usual case are EU pensioners who move to another EU country and take their pension AND their sickness insurance with them from their previous EU country to their new EU country. No other conditions apply.

I may be not up to date on this but I think that pensioners in particular often stay on vacation for more than 3 months in another country and don't register. This may be the same for the owners of second homes in another country. I have homes in two EU countries and nobody checks how much time I spend in each of them. If I had no home, nobody would check on my time spent in any EU country either.

The thing is that normal EU nationals need a bank account and electricity and water and telecommunication etc etc and more often than not you need to prove your residence when you subscribe to these services, hence you need to register at your local town hall.

I had to bring my proof of residence (not just proof of ID) when I went for my Covid-19 vaccination. You won't get a driving licence without proof of residence (not just proof of ID). And so on.

Thanks. I wonder how it works for dual US EU citizens who don’t have a fixed address yet in the EU … Hmmm…