Stuff I was wrong about - And Trail Runners

Deleted member 56069 · Feb 21, 2019

Kanga said:
If I decide to walk the Portuguese next year I am thinking of shoes with lots of padding instead of my usual sandals - because of all the stone sets and cobbles. I have a very wide forefoot but New Balance don't work for me. I'd be trying the Hoka One One Bondi 5. Mainly for the cushioning.

Yeah, I can attest to the challenges of cobblestones and granite setts on the Portuguese Camino. When you look at guide books for the Portuguese Camino, the immediate reaction is that it will be easy because of the number of days without significant elevation change...Wrong! The cobblestones (hobblestones) and granite setts more than make up for it.
It was a welcome relief some days just to walk on asphalt or concrete surfaces just to have a break the cobblestones and granite setts!

MicheleK · Feb 21, 2019

Hello @Moorwalker it took me forever to find a light trail shoe that worked for me. I settled on the HOKA ONE ONE Bondi 5. They have a wide base, lots of support and cushioning. I LOVED THEM!!!!! I walked the Camino Frances from SJPP and never had a blister or sore feet. Hope you find shoes that work for you.

Deleted member 67185 · Feb 21, 2019

Moorwalker said:
I get despondent when I read shoe recommendations because I have small feet. I am therefore relegated to the so-called women's fit shoes which are invariably far narrower than the men's and which usually have narrow heels that cause blisters and trigger achilles problems. I thought I'd solved my problem with Inov8 Roclites, but this spring they have changed the design and now cut on a much narrower last that I can't even get my feet into let alone walk in.

So, does anyone know of a light trail shoe that is very wide, and comes in size 38 European size? My old Inov8's are almost falling to pieces now.

If you could tell us where you live, that would help to inform us of what is available to consider.

Lindy Lou · Feb 21, 2019

ALTRA LONE PEAK are very wide. I’m onto my second pair. TOPO have a wider toe box as well.

Delphinoula · Feb 21, 2019

Well I am not a runner or mointaineer , but I found out that it really depends where you walk, while most of the wilder paths I was ok with my Columbia boots. I know but did not have the funds. Over a time I felt every stone. So I found in a second hand shop a new pair of Asolos. What a difference. Heavier but so much better. Then I picked up a pair of funky looking trainers for five dollars . Brand new. I thought for the evening to switch shoes. They were the hoka one one. I was glueless. I walked in them whenever it stopped raining and I had tar roads . A true feet saver.

Deleted member 67185 · Feb 21, 2019

MicheleK said:
Hello @Moorwalker it took me forever to find a light trail shoe that worked for me. I settled on the HOKA ONE ONE Bondi 5. They have a wide base, lots of support and cushioning. I LOVED THEM!!!!! I walked the Camino Frances from SJPP and never had a blister or sore feet. Hope you find shoes that work for you.

I am going to do a bit of a hijack of your post

The Hokka One One Bondi 5 was replaced last year by the Bondi 6. Having used both, I find the improvements to the 6, while minor, make the Bondi an even better shoe.

I also want to make a minor point of distinction in order to help clarify the Bondi's function. Now, I use the Bondi as the shoe I wear backpacking and also on Camino, so I am not at all trying to discourage its use for such activities by sorting thru definitions.

The Bondi series are designed primarily as running shoes rather than as a trail runner or a trail shoe. The distinction defines both the feature set, build, and construction of the footwear. The Bondi does not incorporate those things that are particular to a trail runner or trail shoe.

1. Running shoes are designed for runners whose primary paths are largely hard packed or paved. They generally incorporate a bit more and firmer cushioning, and the outersole is usually not specifically designed with an aggressive tread. The uppers are constructed from lighter duty materials, and the overall design is to achieve as much lightness to the weight of the shoes as possible.

2. Trail runners / trail running shoes are designed to provide more protection for a runners' feet. It does this most frequently with the addition of a 'rock plate' which is usually embedded between the outersole and the midsole. This is needed because unlike road running, trail running involves, well, running on trails with its associated pokey stuff like rocks, roots, debris, etc. Another major distinction is a beefier structure to help with stability and motion control under rugged conditions. The third major characteristic is that they are equipped with much more aggressive tread patterns so that they can grip the trail and reduce the risk of slipping.

3. Hiking shoes. These are designed around the basic model for hiking boots. The materials are usually much 'beefier' and less flexible to the foot. This means that of the three types of shoes, they are much heavier and benefit from a prolonged break-in period. The outersoles a usually much thicker than the other two shoes types. While the structure of the shoe is stiffer, it doesn't add better stability or motion control.

Running shoes and trail runners require virtually no break in. How they feel out of the box will not substantially change with use. Wearing them will develop a 'memory' for the foot as it sits on the insole, and some minor changes to the upper on the outside of the feet may occur. Because they are lighter than hiking shoes, there is less energy use and fatigue potential to the walker.

Unlike stiffer and less flexible material like thick fabrics and leather, these shoes it will not become substantially 'molded' in the manner that one associates with traditional hiking boots. Hiking shoes, however, MAY benefit from a 'break-in', but in a far shorter period of time than traditional hiking boots.

Because the fit of the running shoe and trail runner is not subject to break in, it is important that they feel and fit well when purchasing them; they will not get 'better' with more wear. What many folks associate as a runner or trail runner 'breaking in' is actually the wearing out of the materials as they fatigue.

As I wrote above, I use my Bondi's as a trail runner even though they are a road running shoe. They do not have a rock plate, but they don't need one; the plush cushioning isolates the trail debris from the sole of the foot.

The tread is not the aggressive, deep-lugged outersole. But what I have found is that they are 'grippy' enough to provide excellent off-road traction. Part of that is how Hokka incorporates a type of micro-siping in the tread. . . . miniature, thin slits. These slits actually open a bit with each step on the ground which, in effect, creates hundreds of micro-edges that are biting into the trail surface.

I was exceedingly skeptical of the Bondi's ability to be a trail shoe, but after a lot of testing they are now my favorites. My own subjective assessment of foot aches and fatigue after 20+ miles of walking or hiking is that the cushioning markedly reduces how uncomfortable my feet feel.

That I find the Bondi a great trail shoe does NOT mean that anyone else will. I suggest it as one of several shoes to consider, but what I like is not a universal given for others.

MicheleK · Feb 21, 2019

Hello @davebugg it was due to your kind suggestions early last summer that I tried the HOKKA'S. I was so grateful to you all the way to Santiago. They sure worked for me.

Jeff Crawley · Feb 21, 2019

davebugg said:
I am going to do a bit of a hijack of your post

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why we all missed Dave so much!

Iriebabel · Feb 21, 2019

davebugg said:
I am going to do a bit of a hijack of your post

The Hokka One One Bondi 5 was replaced last year by the Bondi 6. Having used both, I find the improvements to the 6, while minor, make the Bondi an even better shoe.

I also want to make a minor point of distinction in order to help clarify the Bondi's function. Now, I use the Bondi as the shoe I wear backpacking and also on Camino, so I am not at all trying to discourage its use for such activities by sorting thru definitions.

The Bondi series are designed primarily as running shoes rather than as a trail runner or a trail shoe. The distinction defines both the feature set, build, and construction of the footwear. The Bondi does not incorporate those things that are particular to a trail runner or trail shoe.

1. Running shoes are designed for runners whose primary paths are largely hard packed or paved. They generally incorporate a bit more and firmer cushioning, and the outersole is usually not specifically designed with an aggressive tread. The uppers are constructed from lighter duty materials, and the overall design is to achieve as much lightness to the weight of the shoes as possible.

2. Trail runners / trail running shoes are designed to provide more protection for a runners' feet. It does this most frequently with the addition of a 'rock plate' which is usually embedded between the outersole and the midsole. This is needed because unlike road running, trail running involves, well, running on trails with its associated pokey stuff like rocks, roots, debris, etc. Another major distinction is a beefier structure to help with stability and motion control under rugged conditions. The third major characteristic is that they are equipped with much more aggressive tread patterns so that they can grip the trail and reduce the risk of slipping.

3. Hiking shoes. These are designed around the basic model for hiking boots. The materials are usually much 'beefier' and less flexible to the foot. This means that of the three types of shoes, they are much heavier and benefit from a prolonged break-in period. The outersoles a usually much thicker than the other two shoes types. While the structure of the shoe is stiffer, it doesn't add better stability or motion control.

Running shoes and trail runners require virtually no break in. How they feel out of the box will not substantially change with use. Wearing them will develop a 'memory' for the foot as it sits on the insole, and some minor changes to the upper on the outside of the feet may occur. Because they are lighter than hiking shoes, there is less energy use and fatigue potential to the walker.

Unlike stiffer and less flexible material like thick fabrics and leather, these shoes it will not become substantially 'molded' in the manner that one associates with traditional hiking boots. Hiking shoes, however, MAY benefit from a 'break-in', but in a far shorter period of time than traditional hiking boots.

Because the fit of the running shoe and trail runner is not subject to break in, it is important that they feel and fit well when purchasing them; they will not get 'better' with more wear. What many folks associate as a runner or trail runner 'breaking in' is actually the wearing out of the materials as they fatigue.

As I wrote above, I use my Bondi's as a trail runner even though they are a road running shoe. They do not have a rock plate, but they don't need one; the plush cushioning isolates the trail debris from the sole of the foot.

The tread is not the aggressive, deep-lugged outersole. But what I have found is that they are 'grippy' enough to provide excellent off-road traction. Part of that is how Hokka incorporates a type of micro-siping in the tread. . . . miniature, thin slits. These slits actually open a bit with each step on the ground which, in effect, creates hundreds of micro-edges that are biting into the trail surface.

I was exceedingly skeptical of the Bondi's ability to be a trail shoe, but after a lot of testing they are now my favorites. My own subjective assessment of foot aches and fatigue after 20+ miles of walking or hiking is that the cushioning markedly reduces how uncomfortable my feet feel.

That I find the Bondi a great trail shoe does NOT mean that anyone else will. I suggest it as one of several shoes to consider, but what I like is not a universal given for others.

Hi Dave, great assessment as always. After one day I’m loving my Hoka Tor Hi WP although a part of me will always be loyal to ly Lowa Aeox gortex trail runner mid. I will let you know how the Hoka Tor fair on the camino. After wearing them most of today and in Physio they feel great even with the heel spur. I was able to walk without the crutches as soon as I put them on and without pain. According to the Hoka website there is no wear in period and they are true to size. I wear a 7.5 and I bought a 7.5. Plenty of room in the toe box and even with the insoles I have plenty of room. My feet did not feel cramped. They are higher than usual above the ankle but I always go with the higher shoe, usually mid height, due to my need for ankle stability but so far on my initial assessment these shoes feel really stable on my feet. They go great with my superfeet orange insoles.

Deleted member 67185 · Feb 21, 2019

Iriebabel said:
Hi Dave, great assessment as always. After one day I’m loving my Hoka Tor Hi WP although a part of me will always be loyal to ly Lowa Aeox gortex trail runner mid. I will let you know how the Hoka Tor fair on the camino. After wearing them most of today and in Physio they feel great even with the heel spur. I was able to walk without the crutches as soon as I put them on and without pain. According to the Hoka website there is no wear in period and they are true to size. I wear a 7.5 and I bought a 7.5. Plenty of room in the toe box and even with the insoles I have plenty of room. My feet did not feel cramped. They are higher than usual above the ankle but I always go with the higher shoe, usually mid height, due to my need for ankle stability but so far on my initial assessment these shoes feel really stable on my feet. They go great with my superfeet orange insoles.

That sounds wonderful and very hopeful.

The Tor is very near to the Bondi in terms of the level of cushioning; both are labeled as 'plush'. The Bondi is slightly more cushioney, but I don't think it would make much difference for you.

Keep check on your Achilles tendon as you are wearing them. Because they are higher than your Lowa's, there will be different pressures that this shoe will place against the tendon. I am NOT saying there will be a problem, but be aware of the possibility. If there is any tenderness, crepitance (it feels crackly, squeeky, or a rubbing sensation when you lightly manipulate the skin above the tendon), persistent redness, or swelling, stop wearing the shoe immediately.

This does not mean you can't wear the boots if tendonitis develops. There are strategies which can be implemented to make them wearable and prevent the tendinitis.

My hope is that this footwear will keep things moving in the right direction for you

Iriebabel · Feb 22, 2019

davebugg said:
That sounds wonderful and very hopeful.

The Tor is very near to the Bondi in terms of the level of cushioning; both are labeled as 'plush'. The Bondi is slightly more cushioney, but I don't think it would make much difference for you.

Keep check on your Achilles tendon as you are wearing them. Because they are higher than your Lowa's, there will be different pressures that this shoe will place against the tendon. I am NOT saying there will be a problem, but be aware of the possibility. If there is any tenderness, crepitance (it feels crackly, squeeky, or a rubbing sensation when you lightly manipulate the skin above the tendon), persistent redness, or swelling, stop wearing the shoe immediately.

This does not mean you can't wear the boots if tendonitis develops. There are strategies which can be implemented to make them wearable and prevent the tendinitis.

My hope is that this footwear will keep things moving in the right direction for you

Thank you as always. I will definately keep an eye on it.

Deleted member 67185 · Feb 22, 2019

My Hokka One One Bondi 6's September 2018

Lindy Lou · Feb 22, 2019

davebugg said:
I am going to do a bit of a hijack of your post

The Hokka One One Bondi 5 was replaced last year by the Bondi 6. Having used both, I find the improvements to the 6, while minor, make the Bondi an even better shoe.

I also want to make a minor point of distinction in order to help clarify the Bondi's function. Now, I use the Bondi as the shoe I wear backpacking and also on Camino, so I am not at all trying to discourage its use for such activities by sorting thru definitions.

The Bondi series are designed primarily as running shoes rather than as a trail runner or a trail shoe. The distinction defines both the feature set, build, and construction of the footwear. The Bondi does not incorporate those things that are particular to a trail runner or trail shoe.

1. Running shoes are designed for runners whose primary paths are largely hard packed or paved. They generally incorporate a bit more and firmer cushioning, and the outersole is usually not specifically designed with an aggressive tread. The uppers are constructed from lighter duty materials, and the overall design is to achieve as much lightness to the weight of the shoes as possible.

2. Trail runners / trail running shoes are designed to provide more protection for a runners' feet. It does this most frequently with the addition of a 'rock plate' which is usually embedded between the outersole and the midsole. This is needed because unlike road running, trail running involves, well, running on trails with its associated pokey stuff like rocks, roots, debris, etc. Another major distinction is a beefier structure to help with stability and motion control under rugged conditions. The third major characteristic is that they are equipped with much more aggressive tread patterns so that they can grip the trail and reduce the risk of slipping.

3. Hiking shoes. These are designed around the basic model for hiking boots. The materials are usually much 'beefier' and less flexible to the foot. This means that of the three types of shoes, they are much heavier and benefit from a prolonged break-in period. The outersoles a usually much thicker than the other two shoes types. While the structure of the shoe is stiffer, it doesn't add better stability or motion control.

Running shoes and trail runners require virtually no break in. How they feel out of the box will not substantially change with use. Wearing them will develop a 'memory' for the foot as it sits on the insole, and some minor changes to the upper on the outside of the feet may occur. Because they are lighter than hiking shoes, there is less energy use and fatigue potential to the walker.

Unlike stiffer and less flexible material like thick fabrics and leather, these shoes it will not become substantially 'molded' in the manner that one associates with traditional hiking boots. Hiking shoes, however, MAY benefit from a 'break-in', but in a far shorter period of time than traditional hiking boots.

Because the fit of the running shoe and trail runner is not subject to break in, it is important that they feel and fit well when purchasing them; they will not get 'better' with more wear. What many folks associate as a runner or trail runner 'breaking in' is actually the wearing out of the materials as they fatigue.

As I wrote above, I use my Bondi's as a trail runner even though they are a road running shoe. They do not have a rock plate, but they don't need one; the plush cushioning isolates the trail debris from the sole of the foot.

The tread is not the aggressive, deep-lugged outersole. But what I have found is that they are 'grippy' enough to provide excellent off-road traction. Part of that is how Hokka incorporates a type of micro-siping in the tread. . . . miniature, thin slits. These slits actually open a bit with each step on the ground which, in effect, creates hundreds of micro-edges that are biting into the trail surface.

I was exceedingly skeptical of the Bondi's ability to be a trail shoe, but after a lot of testing they are now my favorites. My own subjective assessment of foot aches and fatigue after 20+ miles of walking or hiking is that the cushioning markedly reduces how uncomfortable my feet feel.

That I find the Bondi a great trail shoe does NOT mean that anyone else will. I suggest it as one of several shoes to consider, but what I like is not a universal given for others.

Welcome back Dave

Deleted member 67185 · Feb 22, 2019

Lindy Lou said:
Welcome back Dave

Thank you, Lindy

Moorwalker · Feb 22, 2019

davebugg said:
If you could tell us where you live, that would help to inform us of what is available to consider.

Sorry, I'm an idiot I'm in England.

Moorwalker · Feb 22, 2019

MicheleK said:
Hello @Moorwalker it took me forever to find a light trail shoe that worked for me. I settled on the HOKA ONE ONE Bondi 5. They have a wide base, lots of support and cushioning. I LOVED THEM!!!!! I walked the Camino Frances from SJPP and never had a blister or sore feet. Hope you find shoes that work for you.

Those look promising, and there is a running shop not too far away which stocks them. I'll go try them on. Thanks.

Deleted member 67185 · Feb 22, 2019

Moorwalker said:
Those look promising, and there is a running shop not too far away which stocks them. I'll go try them on. Thanks.

The Bondi is now v6, but it is slightly improved over the Bondi v5.

As you go looking for shoe, here are some tips which I have posted before that may help you.

The most important theme for achieving a proper fit is: You do not choose a shoe based on measurements, you buy a shoe based on its Fit N Feel regardless of instrument measurements.

When you go to the store, do so toward the end of the day.... you will have been up on your feet, so that will help with getting the correct fit. Additionally, you will need to wear the same backpack with the same gear you will be carrying... you want this additional weight on you as this will put the same downward pressure on the foot that you will be having while on Camino.
Wear the exact same sock(s) you will be wearing while you are walking on the Camino. And if you have a special insole or orthotic, bring it with you.
At the store, the measuring that will be done on your feet is only to get you in the ballpark for the correct shoe size.
Start by standing up; never measure while sitting. You want the full weight of your body, with the pack on, to put the same pressure on your feet to spread them out as will happen while walking. That alone will increase the volume and size of your feet.
Make sure those 'Camino' socks are on your feet; if you wear socks with liners while walking, do the same thing at the store.
While standing, have someone near to you that you can use to steady yourself. With the measuring device on the ground, step onto the instrument and center all of your weight onto the foot being measured. Do the same for the other foot.
Start with that size, but be aware that both the width and the length need to feel like there is adequate room for your feet. Ideally, like Goldilocks, everything will be just right. But, don't count on it. Be picky.
If you have special insoles or orthotics, put them into any shoe you try on as they will take up space inside the shoe.
When you find what you think will fit you well, you will need to see if your toes have enough clearance. Toes should not be able to be forced to the front of the shoe and touch the shoe. Not even a little. If they do, long walking and downhill grades on the trail or path or road will traumatize the bed of the nail, and that is when toenails can blacken and fall off.
With your shoes tied securely, but not too tight, walk around the store with your pack on. Go up stairs and down stairs, scuff the shoes to the floor so that your feet are forced to do any movement they will do and see if your toes so much as butterfly kiss the front of the shoe. Kick the front of the shoe into a post or stair or wall or someone's shin.... does that make any of your toes touch the front of the shoe? That goes for all the little piggies.
Next, pay attention to the width of the shoe. It shouldn't feel snug on the sides and there should be no rubbing or pressure points at all. They will not go away with "break in". They will create soreness, pain, and blistering. Even if it seems to be tolerable, it is like water torture; as your feet are continually exposed to those pressure points your feet will break down against them bit by bit, and bruising, blisters, and soreness will follow.
You may need to go up a size to a size and a half in length, and go with a wider width to avoid those things I mentioned above. The notion that one avoids blisters by wearing snug footwear has been shown to do just the opposite.

Jeff Crawley · Feb 22, 2019

Moorwalker said:
Sorry, I'm an idiot I'm in England.

ROFL.

Jeff Crawley · Feb 22, 2019

zrexer said:
Yeah, I can attest to the challenges of cobblestones and granite setts on the Portuguese Camino. When you look at guide books for the Portuguese Camino, the immediate reaction is that it will be easy because of the number of days without significant elevation change...Wrong! The cobblestones (hobblestones) and granite setts more than make up for it.
It was a welcome relief some days just to walk on asphalt or concrete surfaces just to have a break the cobblestones and granite setts!View attachment 52384 View attachment 52386

At last - somebody who knows the difference!

Deleted member 67185 · Feb 22, 2019

Moorwalker said:
Sorry, I'm an idiot I'm in England.

Hey, no problem. At first glance, I was concerned that you thought you were an idiot because of where you lived . I've known too many British to know THAT wasn't the right interpretation.

Although, in a recent consulting job with your Public Health England (PHE) I had a few doubts

blueskywa · Mar 9, 2019

Thankyou for your thorough assessment of the Bondi 6!!! I was looking for this thread after having asked a question on the forum so this is just what I was looking for. It is amazing to have your excellent input again and I do hope you are keeping well.

After walking the CF in 2016 and having extremely painful feet the entire walk, followed by the del Norte in 2018 with an excruciatingly painful left foot (which actually stopped me walking the final 27km to Muxia - I just COULD NOT do it after 900+km), I have found the Bondi 6!!

I could write a long screed about my foot/treatment and bore you to distraction, but in a nutshell, I can walk again with specially made orthotics (hard ones) and with the cushioning of the Bondi sole it feels like walking on air!! They allow me to walk to get fit after months of lessened inactivity. 5km straight yesterday....up and down trail paths, what an achievement!!! Could have done more....but baby steps and work up.

Last year I walked in Salomon X Ultra gortex low cut shoes which were very comfortable but with my left foot pronation, the heel pain started early and so it goes on! Recently I bought new ankle Salomon boots (will need walking in of course) and have had soft cushioning insoles made which I think are going to work well after the Bondi 6 have done their job.

It will then be a matter of comparison between what suits my feet best for a long walk as the plan is to do the via Francigena next year, hopefully the full one or maybe only half to be on the safe side! I'm also trialling my Ahnu low cut waterproof shoes with the prescribed soft insole, so I'm going to be quite busy.

I've missed doing the de la Plata this year - my partner is walking it now and thoroughly enjoying it.

Cheers and good health...

JillGat · Mar 16, 2019

davebugg said:
I am going to do a bit of a hijack of your post

The Hokka One One Bondi 5 was replaced last year by the Bondi 6. Having used both, I find the improvements to the 6, while minor, make the Bondi an even better shoe.

I also want to make a minor point of distinction in order to help clarify the Bondi's function. Now, I use the Bondi as the shoe I wear backpacking and also on Camino, so I am not at all trying to discourage its use for such activities by sorting thru definitions.

The Bondi series are designed primarily as running shoes rather than as a trail runner or a trail shoe. The distinction defines both the feature set, build, and construction of the footwear. The Bondi does not incorporate those things that are particular to a trail runner or trail shoe.

1. Running shoes are designed for runners whose primary paths are largely hard packed or paved. They generally incorporate a bit more and firmer cushioning, and the outersole is usually not specifically designed with an aggressive tread. The uppers are constructed from lighter duty materials, and the overall design is to achieve as much lightness to the weight of the shoes as possible.

2. Trail runners / trail running shoes are designed to provide more protection for a runners' feet. It does this most frequently with the addition of a 'rock plate' which is usually embedded between the outersole and the midsole. This is needed because unlike road running, trail running involves, well, running on trails with its associated pokey stuff like rocks, roots, debris, etc. Another major distinction is a beefier structure to help with stability and motion control under rugged conditions. The third major characteristic is that they are equipped with much more aggressive tread patterns so that they can grip the trail and reduce the risk of slipping.

3. Hiking shoes. These are designed around the basic model for hiking boots. The materials are usually much 'beefier' and less flexible to the foot. This means that of the three types of shoes, they are much heavier and benefit from a prolonged break-in period. The outersoles a usually much thicker than the other two shoes types. While the structure of the shoe is stiffer, it doesn't add better stability or motion control.

Running shoes and trail runners require virtually no break in. How they feel out of the box will not substantially change with use. Wearing them will develop a 'memory' for the foot as it sits on the insole, and some minor changes to the upper on the outside of the feet may occur. Because they are lighter than hiking shoes, there is less energy use and fatigue potential to the walker.

Unlike stiffer and less flexible material like thick fabrics and leather, these shoes it will not become substantially 'molded' in the manner that one associates with traditional hiking boots. Hiking shoes, however, MAY benefit from a 'break-in', but in a far shorter period of time than traditional hiking boots.

Because the fit of the running shoe and trail runner is not subject to break in, it is important that they feel and fit well when purchasing them; they will not get 'better' with more wear. What many folks associate as a runner or trail runner 'breaking in' is actually the wearing out of the materials as they fatigue.

As I wrote above, I use my Bondi's as a trail runner even though they are a road running shoe. They do not have a rock plate, but they don't need one; the plush cushioning isolates the trail debris from the sole of the foot.

The tread is not the aggressive, deep-lugged outersole. But what I have found is that they are 'grippy' enough to provide excellent off-road traction. Part of that is how Hokka incorporates a type of micro-siping in the tread. . . . miniature, thin slits. These slits actually open a bit with each step on the ground which, in effect, creates hundreds of micro-edges that are biting into the trail surface.

I was exceedingly skeptical of the Bondi's ability to be a trail shoe, but after a lot of testing they are now my favorites. My own subjective assessment of foot aches and fatigue after 20+ miles of walking or hiking is that the cushioning markedly reduces how uncomfortable my feet feel.

That I find the Bondi a great trail shoe does NOT mean that anyone else will. I suggest it as one of several shoes to consider, but what I like is not a universal given for others.

I walked the Frances twice in mostly Chaco sandals, alternating with Altra Lone Peak because I have WIDE forefeet. Now, planning to walk the Portugues with all those cobblestones and pavement, I'm thinking I need to find something with more cushioning than the Altra. The Hoka Bondi sounds good, and it comes in wide, but I hope it's wide enough! Even most men's size wide shoes aren't wide enough for my duck feet.

Deleted member 67185 · Mar 16, 2019

JillGat said:
I walked the Frances twice in mostly Chaco sandals, alternating with Altra Lone Peak because I have WIDE forefeet. Now, planning to walk the Portugues with all those cobblestones and pavement, I'm thinking I need to find something with more cushioning than the Altra. The Hoka Bondi sounds good, and it comes in wide, but I hope it's wide enough! Even most men's size wide shoes aren't wide enough for my duck feet.

I don't know if it will help, but my feet are wider than the wide EE widths and the Bondi still works pretty well for me. From what I remember, they were wider than the Altras, which impinged just a hair bit on the width of my feet at the metatarsal area.

JillGat · Mar 16, 2019

My widest point is the metatarsal area, partly due to bunions.

peregrina2000 · Mar 16, 2019

So, am i understanding right that the Hoka Ones are wider in the metatarsal area (and toe box, I assume) and more cushioned than the Lone Peaks? I walked many long days last year in the Lone Peaks and my feet were never achy. I thought it had amazing cushioning, so if you tell me the Hoka Ones are better, I will give them a try.

JillGat · Mar 16, 2019

peregrina2000 said:
So, am i understanding right that the Hoke One’s are wider in the metatarsal area (and toe box, I assume) and more cushioned than the Lone Peaks?

I don't know that they are wider than the Altras. It's that the Altras don't have much cushion, which I'm looking for with the hard surfaces.

rohanmce · Mar 16, 2019

I'll chuck my 2 cents in here. I also have wide feet and purchased a pair of Bondi 6 late last year as I'd heard lots of positive stories.

I was initially very impressed with them and the cushioning is very very good, however, after the initial settling in period, I became a little unhappy with the width. I'd been feeling just a small pinch and eventually developed a minor callous at the widest point of my right foot and another smaller callous on my left foot. The location of the callous is low down where the top part of the shoe is bonded to the sole. My foot is clearly too wide for the Bondi and the shoe is now starting to give way in this area. They are also wearing out at the inside heel area.

More recently Hoka announced the Bondi 6 wide and I purchased a set the very day they were announced.

Unfortunately, the Bondi 6 wides appear no wider and have identical performance and issues to the originals. As they are newer shoes the wear is not as well progressed but I can see the same pattern emerging. I won't be using these shoes for my Camino later this year.

I have reverted to Keen Targhee's for now and while they are heavier and will certainly require some breaking in, they have sufficient width for my feet. NB: I'm a US size 15 and I estimate a 4E for width and I am fully aware this puts me at the far end of the bell curve.

OzAnnie · Mar 16, 2019

peregrina2000 said:
So, am i understanding right that the Hoka Ones are wider in the metatarsal area (and toe box, I assume) and more cushioned than the Lone Peaks? I walked many long days last year in the Lone Peaks and my feet were never achy. I thought it had amazing cushioning, so if you tell me the Hoka Ones are better, I will give them a try.

Hi laurie - another 2c from me!
Late last year I was heading to USA and had a list of suggestions to try on at REI whilst there.

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/ready-to-look-at-new-footwear-for-camino.58684/

Post #56 gave my feelings about the ones I tried.

I’m wearing trail runners on Vdlp (April this year) -not boots as previously.
However., on return home and trying the ones I returned with from my USA REI shop(Altras lone peaks ).. I found that the zero drop made my legs tire quickly.
They felt beautifully spacious though.

Since then the Hoka One one Bondi 6 plus other varieties are readily available here. I bought the bondi 6. The fitting is wide (D fitting) but although they feel comfortable, they are slightly snug ??

I’ve been alternating my local walks with my trusty Brooks ghost (same size and fitting D as the Bondi6)..
Strangley the ghosts seem roomier ?

So with a few days over 2 weeks before I leave home., I still haven’t made a decision about which footwear I’ll be wearing.

Laurie, like me, you’ll probably end up with a cupboard full of new ‘possible camino footwear’

Annie

C clearly · Mar 16, 2019

OzAnnie said:
I’ve been alternating my local walks with my trusty Brooks ghost (same size and fitting D

Interesting. I remember the thread about your shoe search and I mentioned my short-lived success with the Topo Terraventure (low drop) which was super-comfy but create another problem. A few weeks ago I bought the Brooks Ghost, also D-width, and quite like them. I'll be bringing them to Spain in a few weeks. (I have a nagging pain on the side/top of my foot that worries me, but I'm confident it is not a width or size issue.)

JillGat · Mar 16, 2019

rohanmce said:
I'll chuck my 2 cents in here. I also have wide feet and purchased a pair of Bondi 6 late last year as I'd heard lots of positive stories.

I was initially very impressed with them and the cushioning is very very good, however, after the initial settling in period, I became a little unhappy with the width. I'd been feeling just a small pinch and eventually developed a minor callous at the widest point of my right foot and another smaller callous on my left foot. The location of the callous is low down where the top part of the shoe is bonded to the sole. My foot is clearly too wide for the Bondi and the shoe is now starting to give way in this area. They are also wearing out at the inside heel area.

More recently Hoka announced the Bondi 6 wide and I purchased a set the very day they were announced.

Unfortunately, the Bondi 6 wides appear no wider and have identical performance and issues to the originals. As they are newer shoes the wear is not as well progressed but I can see the same pattern emerging. I won't be using these shoes for my Camino later this year.

I have reverted to Keen Targhee's for now and while they are heavier and will certainly require some breaking in, they have sufficient width for my feet. NB: I'm a US size 15 and I estimate a 4E for width and I am fully aware this puts me at the far end of the bell curve.

I also have found that the "wide" versions of shoes often don't feel any wider than the regular width version. WHY won't anybody make a truly wide shoe?? I remember back when I was a runner, Saucony had really wide forefoot shoes, but they finally narrowed them down to that ridiculous bullet shape that all shoes have (and no feet have). I bet it was because people didn't like how they looked; like duck feet, which is what I have.

One of Altra's big claims to fame is the wide, foot-shaped pattern. But mine, while they were better than any others I've tried, have started to wear a hole in the widest part of the shoe. I got a new pair and still wear them. But for the Portugues - with the hard surfaces - I am going to try the Hokas. Men's wide.

I also found this site for freaks like me with bunions, so maybe i will try some of these tips.

How to Make Shoes Wider for Bunions

Discover effective techniques to make shoes wider for bunions, ensuring comfort and relief. Learn practical tips and methods for stretching shoes at home.

www.orthofeet.com

JabbaPapa · Mar 16, 2019

I've been barefoot on the Camino after my army boots broke in 1993, and lack of finance and lack of 21st century pilgrim supply shops forced me to finish that Camino in espadrilles, which was little better than barefoot -- and whilst I'd hardly recommend using ultra-light footwear to **that** particular extreme, truth is that once your feet have hardened enough it's actually quite feasible. But cripes was I relieved to put shoes on when I returned home !!!

JabbaPapa · Mar 16, 2019

JillGat said:
that ridiculous bullet shape that all shoes have (and no feet have)

There are three basic shapes of feet -- one with the toes nearly level with each other ; one with a prominent second toe that the big toe and the others taper away from ; the third with the big toe being most prominent and the others smaller and forming a diagonal.

But there's also an uncountable number of completely unique individual variations.

JillGat · Mar 16, 2019

JabbaPapa said:
There are three basic shapes of feet -- one with the toes nearly level with each other, one with a prominent second toe that the big toe and the others taper away from, the third with the big toe being most prominent and the others smaller and forming a diagonal.

But there's also an uncountable number of completely unique individual variations.

Right. And none of them are shaped like a bullet steeple.

JabbaPapa · Mar 16, 2019

JillGat said:
Right. And none of them are shaped like a bullet steeple.

The basic shape with the prominent second toe is fairly well suited to that shoe form. NOT for anyone with the two other basic foot types, nor those having an intermediary anatomy (like me BTW).

JillGat · Mar 16, 2019

JabbaPapa said:
The basic shape with the prominent second toe is fairly well suited to that shoe form. NOT for anyone with the two other basic foot types, nor those having an intermediary anatomy (like me BTW).

Even with the prominent second toe (Morton's foot), I don't agree that feet are shaped like this.

JabbaPapa · Mar 16, 2019

JillGat said:
Even with the prominent second toe (Morton's foot), I don't agree that feet are shaped like this.

They're not, but if you make sure that you get a shoe that's large enough, that shoe shape does accommodate those feet "fairly" well -- not perfectly, else I'd have said so. And women's shoes are generally far worse in this respect than men's.

Custom-made ones are what certain more egregious anatomies require, of course.

Anyway, the army boots I need to wear for related purposes are size 14, broad (now that the leather around my ankles and feet has stretched and adapted), and round-toed.

Good quality Italian shoes are otherwise generally far better than most, though yes, that requires both going to Italy and knowing what to look for (because bad Italian shoes are pretty rubbish).

VNwalking · Mar 16, 2019

davebugg said:
Kick the front of the shoe into a post or stair or wall or someone's shin.

...

JillGat said:
I also have found that the "wide" versions of shoes often don't feel any wider than the regular width version. WHY won't anybody make a truly wide shoe??

JillGat said:
Right. And none of them are shaped like a bullet steeple.

Oh, sole sister, you are singing my song.
I have asked that same question countless times.

My issue is only one foot - I once shattered a big toe and now (3 decades later) the metatarsophalangeal joint is big and arthritic. Did I say big? Not like a bunion big, where there's a deviation of the great toe towards other toes - the toe points very nicely forward, thank you very much - but it's huge both medially and dorsally: it's a big knob that sticks out and up. On top of that I grew up barefoot so I have really wide 'luau feet.' So I need a very wide and high forefoot. Those newer shoes, Hokas included, are bullet shaped, and I could no more wear even a Hoka One One comfortably than fly to the moon by flapping my arms. Like you, Dave, I wore Sauconys for a bunch of years as a marathon runner. But now? Hahahaha! No way.
I'm sorry to whine, but I hate fashion.
And many sandals press that joint right in just the wrong place.

So now I happily wear Keens, because they are the only brand that fits anymore.

This year I need a new shoe because my old McKenzie I is gone forever and the Mckenzie II is not so durable - so trying the Arroyo. They are heavier than the McKenzies, and don't have some of the features of the McKenzie I loved so much - for a relatively short camino the Mckenzies are perfect. But for longer...? I'm not risking it.
Well I'll find out if the Arroyos are OK. I hope I am not disappointed.
(BTW, Neither are as cushy as the Hokas...but they fit if you have monster feet.)

Poppy-Pete · Mar 16, 2019

Robo said:
We never stop learning do we? Every Camino I learn something new and this is true of Gear too!

So with 3 Caminos done, (Yes I'm a real Newbie compared to many members here), I'm thinking about gear for number 4. And reflecting on things that I have changed my mind about, or new bits of gear I love.

Just thought I would share the following.

Those Hair Shirts! (Merino) I have owned some since Camino #1 and only used them for evening wear. Too hot, too itchy...... This year I wore one walking........... I'm never going back to tech shirts! (they are like wearing a plastic bag in comparison)

As counter intuitive as it is, Merino shirts are good in hot weather as well as cold. They keep you dry and the sweat evaporates....

They don't last too well though. My walking shirt was patched with foot tape by the end. Will need to buy a couple more.

So I was wrong on the shirts!

Hikers Wool. Have loved this stuff since #1. Great for treating hot spots. Though if Pat is walking with me I need an extra pack! Her feet each morning looked like a Hobbit's .......... And thank you to the suppliers for mailing me a 2nd pack for pick up en route......
http://robscamino.com/2018/hikers-wool/

Umbrella. Worth it's weight in Gold! Mainly for hot days. Keeps me really cool and reduces my water consumption by about 40%
Quite handy in the rain too. (see the video under water bladders)

Water Bladders. Never again. I used them on #1 and #2. They are extra weight and sadly 'out of sight' so hard to monitor usage.
I'm now 'sold' on water bottles attached to the front pack straps with a drinking tube.
See video: http://robscamino.com/2018/packing-list/

Boots. The additional weight of boots may be causing or aggravating my foot problems. (Achilles, Shins). On advice from a Physio in Spain I'm going to try trail runners! Another Sacred Cow gone........ I love my boots!

What brands should I try? @davebugg?

Hi Robo. Before my Camino in 2018 I tried hiking boots, then hiking shoes, both of which were comfortable when first wearing during training but then not so after a bit of wearing. I tried Ascis Trail Runners, link below and they were great. Price wise they are at the lower end of the market but they were very comfortable and I was fortunate and didn't have any blisters at all with them. They have a reasonable sole that doesn't collect stones and dry out quickly after getting wet.

GEL-SONOMA 4 (4E EXTRA WIDE)

<p>The GEL-SONOMA 4 trail shoe is perfect for neutral type to under pronator runners. It has a rugged Trail Specific Outsole pattern, equipping the off -road adventurer with more control when navigating through uneven terrain. It also features a reinforced toe guard to protect against rocks and...

www.asics.com

Finisterre · Mar 16, 2019

I'm a fan of bondi's too but they are annoyingly tight.

This guy is pretty sorted when it comes to dealing with a narrow toe box.

Shoe Modifications

fellrnr.com

JillGat · Mar 17, 2019

VNwalking said:
...

Oh, sole sister, you are singing my song.
I have asked that same question countless times.

My issue is only one foot - I once shattered a big toe and now (3 decades later) the metatarsophalangeal joint is big and arthritic. Did I say big? Not like a bunion big, where there's a deviation of the great toe towards other toes - the toe points very nicely forward, thank you very much - but it's huge both medially and dorsally: it's a big knob that sticks out and up. On top of that I grew up barefoot so I have really wide 'luau feet.' So I need a very wide and high forefoot. Those newer shoes, Hokas included, are bullet shaped, and I could no more wear even a Hoka One One comfortably than fly to the moon by flapping my arms. Like you, Dave, I wore Sauconys for a bunch of years as a marathon runner. But now? Hahahaha! No way.
I'm sorry to whine, but I hate fashion.
And many sandals press that joint right in just the wrong place.
So now I happily wear Keens, because they are the only brand that fits anymore.

This year I need a new shoe because my old McKenzie I is gone forever and the Mckenzie II is not so durable - so trying the Arroyo. They are heavier than the McKenzies, and don't have some of the features of the McKenzie I loved so much - for a relatively short camino the Mckenzies are perfect. But for longer...? I'm not risking it.
Well I'll find out if the Arroyos are OK. I hope I am not disappointed.
(BTW, Neither are as cushy as the Hokas...but they fit if you have monster feet.)

I started my first Camino in the Keen Arroyos (men's, because REI doesn't carry the women's model, even though they have shelf space for a dozen dress shoes. AT REI... I digress). Anyway, they felt great to begin with, plenty wide. But they started to stretch out and then to fall apart. They didn't work for me. I think the Chaco sandals work well for me because the straps don't cover the bunion area. If only they made a really cushy version for walking on pavement...

JillGat · Mar 17, 2019

Finisterre said:
I'm a fan of bondi's too but they are annoyingly tight.

This guy is pretty sorted when it comes to dealing with a narrow toe box.

Shoe Modifications

fellrnr.com

I've thought about cutting a slot along the side where my forefoot is widest. Part of my problem, like VNWalking, is that I grew up walking barefoot. It's depressing to hear that the Bondi is tight. I just ordered a pair in Men's Wide. We'll see.

If any of you care to compare, the wide point of my right foot is 4" (over 10 cm) and I wear a size 9 women's/size 8 men's shoe (EU: 40-41)

VNwalking · Mar 17, 2019

My feet are about the same: 4.1" wide and EU 44-41
Quack quack.
QUOTE="JillGat, post: 719002, member: 47729"]
Anyway, they felt great to begin with, plenty wide. But they started to stretch out and then to fall apart.
[/QUOTE]
Uh-oh. Well. We'll see.

JillGat said:
REI doesn't carry the women's model, even though they have shelf space for a dozen dress shoes. AT REI... I digress

Yeah, maybe off topic but I can't resist. Definitely

katie@camino · Mar 17, 2019

JillGat said:
I started my first Camino in the Keen Arroyos (men's, because REI doesn't carry the women's model, even though they have shelf space for a dozen dress shoes. AT REI... I digress). Anyway, they felt great to begin with, plenty wide. But they started to stretch out and then to fall apart. They didn't work for me. I think the Chaco sandals work well for me because the straps don't cover the bunion area. If only they made a really cushy version for walking on pavement...

Couldn't agree more about the Chacos! Love them but a bit hard for long distances

JillGat · Mar 19, 2019

Lindy Lou said:
ALTRA LONE PEAK are very wide. I’m onto my second pair. TOPO have a wider toe box as well.

The Altra Lone Peak is supposed to have the widest toe box out there. So I bought the Men's, which is even wider than the Women's. Below are pictures of 1. My duck footed shoes, 2. Where they started to wear out (at the widest part of my foot) and 3. How I fixed em. These are my older pair. I haven't mutilated my new ones yet.

C clearly · Mar 19, 2019

JillGat said:
The Altra Lone Peak is supposed to have the widest toe box out there.

Maybe, but they were too low-volume for my high arch. The Topo Terraventure was better, with a wide toe box and more height, but the low-rise doesn't please my left foot.

Finisterre · Mar 24, 2019

JillGat said:
I've thought about cutting a slot along the side where my forefoot is widest. Part of my problem, like VNWalking, is that I grew up walking barefoot. It's depressing to hear that the Bondi is tight. I just ordered a pair in Men's Wide. We'll see.

If any of you care to compare, the wide point of my right foot is 4" (over 10 cm) and I wear a size 9 women's/size 8 men's shoe (EU: 40-41)

please Let us know how the Bondi Wide is. I've heard that they left the toe end alone and made more space for the rest of the foot. Which doesn't much suit my narrow heel and high arch.

The search goes on for perfection.
(my problems are so first world.)

Deleted member 67185 · Mar 24, 2019

Finisterre said:
please Let us know how the Bondi Wide is. I've heard that they left the toe end alone and made more space for the rest of the foot. Which doesn't much suit my narrow heel and high arch.

The search goes on for perfection.
(my problems are so first world.)

I have been using the Bondi for over a year now. I had the Bondi 5 when I first tried them out, and then switched to the Bondi 6 when it was released.

The Bondi is a 'true' wide. The wide width is correctly proportional from the forefoot to the heel. Although the Hoka One One Bondi 6 does not use the usual letter-designated for width sizes, it is the same as an 'EE' width.

I have very wide feet, and my right foot, which is the most demanding of the two, is perfectly happy with the wide.

JillGat · Mar 25, 2019

davebugg said:
I have been using the Bondi for over a year now. I had the Bondi 5 when I first tried them out, and then switched to the Bondi 6 when it was released.

The Bondi is a 'true' wide. The wide width is correctly proportional from the forefoot to the heel. Although the Hoka One One Bondi 6 does not use the usual letter-designated for width sizes, it is the same as an 'EE' width.

I have very wide feet, and my right foot, which is the most demanding of the two, is perfectly happy with the wide.

My different experience: I got my Bondi 6, Men's Wide (and I am female, btw), and they were painfully tight at the forefoot. I wore them on a long walk, thinking they might "form to my foot" and I was almost crippled with pain at the end. I went to REI and exchanged them for the Challenger ATR 5. These were bliss for my feet.

JillGat · Mar 25, 2019

Here is an interesting article about Hoka One One (pronounced Ho-Kah Oh-Ney Oh-Ney; a Maori phrase, meaning "to fly"): https://www.outsideonline.com/1869931/clown-shoe-thats-changing-minimalist-running

Deleted member 67185 · Mar 25, 2019

JillGat said:
My different experience: I got my Bondi 6, Men's Wide (and I am female, btw), and they were painfully tight at the forefoot. I wore them on a long walk, thinking they might "form to my foot" and I was almost crippled with pain at the end. I went to REI and exchanged them for the Challenger ATR 5. These were bliss for my feet.

That is really weird that the ATR in a Wide was a good fit, but the Bondi Wide was too tight. Honestly, when I was trying them out as candidates to replace my New Balance, I thought both models fit the same. It makes me wonder if theys accidentally mixed up a pair of Regular widths in place of the Wide at the factory and, they got mislabeled.

It sounds like your feet are happy now The ATR is a good choice and it sounds like they are a great match for you.

NorthernLight · Mar 25, 2019

JillGat said:
Here is an interesting article about Hoka One One (pronounced Ho-Kah Oh-Ney Oh-Ney; a Maori phrase, meaning "to fly"): https://www.outsideonline.com/1869931/clown-shoe-thats-changing-minimalist-running

It is interesting. Particularly the sceptic's estimate that they will break down and cause injury or pain after 200 or 300 miles. What has been the actual lifespan of these?

alipilgrim · Mar 25, 2019

Just want to chime in with my endorsement of the Hoka One One Challenger ATR5. I have a wide foot with a very high arch and therefore need a high-volume foot with also at least medium height in the forefoot. The Challenger fits me very well. It was only after I purchased them did I realize they also come in a WIDE, so I've bought another pair to save for my next camino.

FYI, the website I normally buy from, www.runningwarehouse.com, lists in their specs of their shoes, the volume, fit, height, curvature, etc. of almost all their shoes so that helps in making a decision.

Deleted member 67185 · Mar 25, 2019

NorthernLight said:
It is interesting. Particularly the sceptic's estimate that they will break down and cause injury or pain after 200 or 300 miles. What has been the actual lifespan of these?

Maybe this may help with the question; maybe not

I do not know the average life span, but I use mine hard and for backpacking, and after Camino last October, mine had around 550 miles on them. I will be using them as this years training shoes.

A big factor in premature wear is a runner/walker/hiker who is using the wrong shoe. That sounds strange, but keep in mind that someone who has severe pronation, and who uses a neutral control shoe, is going to break down the midsole and wear down the side of the outersole very quickly.

Hoka One One, like all other trail running and street running shoe manufacturers have different models with compensations built in for differing foot issues. To make sure one gets the best performance from a shoe, both for comfort and longevity, than it is necessary to pick a shoe that matches any unique individual issues.

I think the article is about 7 years old. Even over the last 4 years, improvements (reformulations) to the materials of the midsole and outersole have been made several times, so the cushioning material of two years ago is not quite the same as at the end of 2018.

JillGat · Mar 25, 2019

davebugg said:
That is really weird that the ATR in a Wide was a good fit, but the Bondi Wide was too tight. Honestly, when I was trying them out as candidates to replace my New Balance, I thought both models fit the same. It makes me wonder if theys accidentally mixed up a pair of Regular widths in place of the Wide at the factory and, they got mislabeled.

It sounds like your feet are happy now The ATR is a good choice and it sounds like they are a great match for you.

They looked like they were shaped differently to me, the Bondi being more bullet shaped and the ATR more rounded. Somebody else here said the Bondi was tight. Maybe it depends on the shape of your foot.

Deleted member 67185 · Mar 25, 2019

JillGat said:
They looked like they were shaped differently to me, the Bondi being more bullet shaped and the ATR more rounded. Somebody else here said the Bondi was tight. Maybe it depends on the shape of your foot.

It might also be how many socks one is wearing, the types and thicknesses of insoles or orthotics, etc. As you implied, there are a lot of variations in feet.

JillGat · Mar 26, 2019

davebugg said:
It might also be how many socks one is wearing, the types and thicknesses of insoles or orthotics, etc. As you implied, there are a lot of variations in feet.

I never wear more than one pair of Wright double layer socks. My feet are too wide for more (and I can't be bothered with more socks, anyway)

Lindy Lou · Apr 19, 2019

JillGat said:
I walked the Frances twice in mostly Chaco sandals, alternating with Altra Lone Peak because I have WIDE forefeet. Now, planning to walk the Portugues with all those cobblestones and pavement, I'm thinking I need to find something with more cushioning than the Altra. The Hoka Bondi sounds good, and it comes in wide, but I hope it's wide enough! Even most men's size wide shoes aren't wide enough for my duck feet.

I walked the Portugués Coastal in Lone Peaks and had absolutely no issue.

tarasis · May 22, 2019

I’ve been struggling to find shoes/boots that I like and have been trying to find maybe trail runners I could use instead.

Till now most of my walking has been done in ASICS Gel cushion badminton shoes (size 48’s), I’ve walked over well 1000km in then; mostly on streets, gravel, minimal trails. Got scolded in a shop today about that. BUT at the time I bought them, they were the only trainers that felt roomy enough at my toes and the fabric bent well when putting my foot down.

I did try/buy some Brooks Ghost 11’s today (which lead me to this thread), and they’re like 90% good but my right heel is a little loose and slips up and down a little when walking in them. (Slightly funny to me as my left foot is slightly smaller than the right and seems to fit the shoe perfectly).

After reading this thread I’d very much like to try the HOKA Bondi 6. Haven’t seen them in any of the hiking ships, but According to their website there are a few places nearish that sell them (hopefully with 46⅔ & 47⅓ sizes).

Sadly it appears the HOKA EU online shop doesn’t have the same generous returns policy the US one does

US:

The hoka one one 30 Day Guarantee. Don't take our word for it, ask another runner. Better yet, try a pair for yourself. Take them for a run, or two or ten. If you are not completely satisfied, you can return or exchange them within 30 days of the original purchase, no questions asked. What have you got to lose?

EU (Well Germany, translated)

Your satisfaction is our top priority, and we hope your order met your expectations. If you change your mind about any of the products for any reason, you may return the product within 30 days of receipt for an exchange or refund. Please note that we can only process an exchange for the same model in a different color or size.

You may return or exchange the goods, provided that they have not been worn, damaged, washed or altered.

Please note that we do not exchange or refund any goods that are not in their original condition.

No idea if my feet are wide, but I definitely prefer space at the front and it helps keep my feet cooler

Moorwalker · May 23, 2019

tarasis said:
Till now most of my walking has been done in ASICS Gel cushion badminton shoes (size 48’s), I’ve walked over well 1000km in then; mostly on streets, gravel, minimal trails. Got scolded in a shop today about that. BUT at the time I bought them, they were the only trainers that felt roomy enough at my toes and the fabric bent well when putting my foot down.

I'd have told them off for that, it's not their place to criticise your choices in that way. I've had similar experiences in shoe shops because I have feet that are difficult to find shoes for. As you say, sometimes it's a case of finding a pair that you can wear at all - any pair. The latest designs may well be excellent but if they don't fit, they are not suitable.

I always enjoy the expressions of astonishment on some people's faces when they encounter me walking on Dartmoor barefoot. i've had all sorts of pronouncements about how I will wreck my feet, suffer from injuries etc. All I can say is that after 50 years or so of walking barefoot and in sandals my feet are doing just fine.

Delphinoula · May 23, 2019

I think shoes are as individual as it gets to be. I got a pair of cheep kohumba hiking boots men’s size and I could not been happier, when they wore out the nex ones from Columbia where ok no mayor farigues or wearing just a bit too short for downhill. The hoka oneone Clifton 1 I got in a thrift shop new for a couple of dollars and without knowing what they were made for I fell inlove with them as alternate so not to walk in the same shoes all day and they where great or more than that. Unfortunately it all trial and error. Because all those test are not you testing it.

CaminoLori · May 27, 2019

Anyone try to do this with bunions? Any solutions? Tips? Thanks!

peregrina2000 · May 27, 2019

CaminoLori said:
Anyone try to do this with bunions? Any solutions? Tips? Thanks!

Part of the reason why I need such a wide toe box is because of bunions. I have found no shoe with a wider toe box than Altras, so I would suggest you go try on a few pairs. I wear the men’s shoe, even though I have a very narrow foot, because of the bunions, and I had no problems at all last year — 1000 kms with no corns, no foot pain, and I can’t even remember any blisters!

Heading out with a new pair in about a week!

Delphinoula · May 27, 2019

Hi Lori
I found releave with especially skipping that hole in the area of your swelling when lacing my boots. There are youtube videos about lacing. The diffrent techniques made such an improvement to my boots. And when I look few try it out to see it would work for them.

Moorwalker · May 28, 2019

Dancing Rain said:
Also - I’m enjoying making them unique with darning the necessary repairs ... will make them become more and more unique over the years. Using 4 ply baby wool - taking the threads apart to one-ply

You might like the work that a friend of mine does. Tom makes a feature and an art form out of mending.

PORTFOLIO

Portfolio Below is a showcase of some of my work: A private commission of a cardigan that already had some visible mends Vintage Welsh blankets visibly mended with Shetland wool A collaboration wit…

tomofholland.com

Moorwalker · May 28, 2019

CaminoLori said:
Anyone try to do this with bunions? Any solutions? Tips? Thanks!

A company called Hanwag do walking boots and shoes specifically designed for bunions so they might be worth looking at.

Hanwag Home

Here you’ll find a wide range of trekking and mountaineering shoes made to last. Hanwag carries on the proud tradition of Bavarian craftsmanship since 1921.

www.hanwag.com

tarasis · May 29, 2019

Moorwalker said:
I'd have told them off for that, it's not their place to criticise your choices in that way. I've had similar experiences in shoe shops because I have feet that are difficult to find shoes for. As you say, sometimes it's a case of finding a pair that you can wear at all - any pair. The latest designs may well be excellent but if they don't fit, they are not suitable.

I always enjoy the expressions of astonishment on some people's faces when they encounter me walking on Dartmoor barefoot. i've had all sorts of pronouncements about how I will wreck my feet, suffer from injuries etc. All I can say is that after 50 years or so of walking barefoot and in sandals my feet are doing just fine.

I’m in awe of you walking Dartmoor barefoot. That is seriously impressive.

I did just let it slide, and kinda just played with it. Didn’t want to upset the person trying to help me

I _think_ walking with barefoot shoes recently is what has made it harder to find the right shoes, but it’s speculation.

My left arch has strained over the last 2 weeks and found very little that makes it comfortable, except walking in the barefoot water shoes I bought for pottering around in after I reach my destination each day.

Not convinced the tread on it is sufficient for walking the Camino.

The trail runners I’m using are comfortable enough but my arch isn’t best pleased.

I’ve heard such mixed opinions about using sandals for the Camino Frances, but strongly thinking of picking some up in SJPdP or on route.

I’m curious to try Merrell agility peak flex but nowhere near me had any to try. Not sure if I can find those on route. (Also like the Merrell Vapor Ghost, Although again unsure of suitability for the CF)

Delphinoula said:
I think shoes are as individual as it gets to be. I got a pair of cheep kohumba hiking boots men’s size and I could not been happier, when they wore out the nex ones from Columbia where ok no mayor farigues or wearing just a bit too short for downhill. The hoka oneone Clifton 1 I got in a thrift shop new for a couple of dollars and without knowing what they were made for I fell inlove with them as alternate so not to walk in the same shoes all day and they where great or more than that. Unfortunately it all trial and error. Because all those test are not you testing it.

Indeed. Incredibly individual. I’ve tried a few shoes on that people swear are the most comfortable thing on Earth but I need to get them off within a couple of minutes.

Stivandrer · May 29, 2019

..another merino sceptic won over.... brilliant..
Another option is polypropylene/ Meriono mix like in Helly Hansen shirts LS/SS...
I like this middle postion when it is a litte too warm, but windy enough to get rid of moisture
You know like some winds can give a cold even in general temperatures, here the wool part will keep the ventilated parts warm...

Moorwalker · May 29, 2019

tarasis said:
I’m in awe of you walking Dartmoor barefoot. That is seriously impressive.
(SNIP)
I _think_ walking with barefoot shoes recently is what has made it harder to find the right shoes, but it’s speculation.

I choose carefully where I walk barefoot, Dartmoor has quite a bit of gorse, at which point I like sandals. We were on the Moor last weekend, sandals all the way.

Part of the reason I have difficulty buying shoes that fit is that I grew up in New Zealand walking barefoot or in flipflops and your feet end up very strong, skin like shoe leather, and very wide.

Deleted member 67185 · May 29, 2019

tarasis said:
Indeed. Incredibly individual. I’ve tried a few shoes on that people swear are the most comfortable thing on Earth but I need to get them off within a couple of minutes.

Indeed, this is the exact reason I frequently state on the Forum that people should never rely on someone's subjective statements of comfort or feel about a specific shoe. Another person's recommendations should be viewed as something to add to a checklist of recommended footwear to try out. . . to audition, if you will.

Due diligence is required to make YOUR feet happy. Or as happy as they can be, anyway

I like Hoka One One Bondi. Currently, it is now in v. 6; I started out using the v. 5. I find the shoe exceedingly comfortable, does well on a variety of terrain while backpacking in the Rockies and Cascades, and functioned perfectly for Caminos.

Anyone else would be a fool to take my experience of comfort, and then order a pair on blind faith that their feet will find them just as comfortable as me. There is a good chance they will be comfortable, as many folks find them to be so, but that is something that must be individually determined.

For example, my wife, Jill, does not like the Bondi v6. They feel 'odd' to her and they have a pressure point that is annoying to her, even in the 'wide' width. Jill had decided to try the Hoka Bondi based on the fact that I find them comfortable and more than adequate to my needs.

I made sure that she wore them only as the local store directed in order to be able to return them, even though Jill wanted to immediately take them out on the trail. As a charge nurse on pediatrics at out local hospital, she was able to try them out while working ( the store sells to a lot of hospital staff). Jill walks a lot during a shift, and after a few shifts it became apparent to her the shortfall of the Bondi as a match to her feet. And she was able to return them.

So, take the praise folks give their footwear with the appropriate salt grains. If interested, put that shoe on your checklist to try. But do not commit to a shoe until you know it will work for you.

Oh, and if that shoe is not comfortable from the very first time you put it on, it will not become better with age, especially if it is a running or trail running shoe.

While some parts of the shoe will 'mold' itself to the foot a bit, like the footbed, there is no real 'breaking in". The materials used nowadays, even in my hiking boots that I use in the winter (Lowe Camino) are far more supple than from yesteryear. The joy of most hiking footwear -- be they running shoes, trail running shoes, hiking shoes, etc -- is that the materials and construction make them 'good to go' right out of the box.

Yes, there are exceptions, but the exceptions are few and far between.

Dancing Rain · Jun 6, 2019

Moorwalker said:
You might like the work that a friend of mine does. Tom makes a feature and an art form out of mending.

PORTFOLIO

Portfolio Below is a showcase of some of my work: A private commission of a cardigan that already had some visible mends Vintage Welsh blankets visibly mended with Shetland wool A collaboration wit…

tomofholland.com

Love it

jrewins · Sunday at 5:22 PM

Ok, I’ll open with I know I’m overthinking this, but I’m prepping for the VdlP, so I have cause to err on the side of caution. I’m testing packing cubes for clothing. In previous Caminos I’ve...

kmccrom · Saturday at 2:23 AM

Hi everyone! I’m planning my Camino for mid August to late October, the via Podeinsis followed by the francés. So I’ll be experiencing a shift in weather and some rain, so I wanted to ask what...

Redlory · Saturday at 4:33 AM

Hi all, Shoes... Big topic, hey? I'm a regular hiker, but I'm thinking my SALOMON A PRO 3D, although great for stability on climbs, might not suit my need for more breathability and cushioning on...

Unweekends · Sunday at 9:44 PM

I'm walking a short 3 day Camino. Pontevedra to Caldas de Reis ( Day 1) Caldas de Reis to Padron ( Day 2) Padron to Santiago de Compostela ( Day 3) FREE day in Santiago then head home ( Day 4)...

LakeMcD · Saturday at 7:52 PM

For 7 seasons of Caminos I’ve always taken a silk liner and have just used blankets at my albergue or gite. I do remember just a handful colder nights where blankets weren’t available ...

Stuff I was wrong about - And Trail Runners

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