Stomach Bug on Meseta

[KeyserSoza]

Including myself, I have heard of a good few people are experiencing Gastrointestinal issues between Burgos and Ledigos. Anyone else find this and is the situation wider than this area.

 

[Tincatinker]

GI infections are usually population specific not geographic. That is someone in your cohort has shared their affliction and others are also. High standards of personal hygiene is the only resolution

 

[Keyser]

I’m hearing it from with people two or three days behind me whom I have never met.

 

[Keyser]

I’m also not staying in Albergues.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I have read reports of stomach issues quite a few times since I've been on this forum, and many have been from people walking on the Meseta. One thought I've read is that it could be related to water run off of the fields occasionally, temporarily tainting the local water supply, but it is only "hearsay", and not sure if fact.

 

[Simperegrina]

In Feb I met 2 people on the Portugues Central who had picked it up, they think from another pilgrim staying at the same muni albergue in Ponte de Lima. They had all shared a communal dinner.

 

[MickMac]

I have walked the Camino many times and never drank the fountain water, not a smugness just careful always drank inexpensive bottled water.
Never had a stomach problem except its too big does that count.

 

[Anhalter]

On both my caminos i heard of the occasional wave of "stomach bug". Might be a virus going around, might be some food at some place or might be some water fountain not living up to the quality. One can be careful but there is always a chance. I was lucky enough to never catch something, on the other hand there are always some active carbon tablets in my kit...

 

[roving_rufus]

There are a few stomach bugs that are infectious and easily transmitted, and hard to kill - even alcohol handgel isn't sufficient. In close quarters such bugs can spread easily. I always carry soap with me - so many toilets lack any - but a good hand-wash is important!

Contaminated water in towns does happen but generally the locals will figure that out fairly quickly. Untreated fuentes are risky - but on the CF there are plenty of fuentes that are tap water supplied (rather than a spring). Water is probably less likely the source unless very large numbers are ill (or have drunk from untreated fuente/spring)

Contaminated food/food poisoning is also a likely cause - just some unwashed hands or something not properly prepared or stored.

 

[peregrino_tom]

Including myself, I have heard of a good few people are experiencing Gastrointestinal issues between Burgos and Ledigos. Anyone else find this and is the situation wider than this area.

KeyserSoza, sorry, not many answers to your query so far - mainly the usual suspects who feel the need to reply to anything, and in this case all they can offer to their audience is generic safety advice.
It's a bit depressing to hear of another GI bug outbreak on the meseta, but sadly not that surprising.
I encountered this last on the CF in late 2018. The dormitory at the Parroquial in Carrion was like some military field hospital with half the occupants severely sick. We worked out that only those who stopped at Hontanas were affected. None of those who did Hornillos-CastroJeriz had symptoms. This has been raised and discussed previously on the forum more than once - so I'm surprised the regulars who have commented so far haven't remembered/referred to this (with the exception of Camino Chrissy).
For me, the regular reporting of these occurrences points to a problem at a particular place on the meseta. But sadly as transients we don't have the wherewithal or tools to either pinpoint the problem or influence a better outcome. When I was walking my Korean pals were saying that they were using their WhatsApp group to forewarn others further back about Hontanas. But the source of the issue remained unaddressed.

 

[naplesdon]

I remember in years past many people pointed their finger at the drinking water in Carrion which comes from wells and/or the river. If the water level was high or low, I can't remember which, there would be numerous stomach upsets. There were many staunch denials regarding this suspicion.

 

[HBS60]

This reminds me of a nasty bug I got while visiting Spain back in 2009 with a friend. After 3 great days in Barcelona, we went to Malaga via train, then visited Seville, had breakfast at a cute little sidewalk cafe, and within 2 hours I was throwing up all over town. My friend told me that there was something off about the food (we ate the same thing, I think it was a pork sandwich) but I didn’t notice anything, maybe because I’m more familiar with Hispanic food in general. But I was miserably sick, throwing up everywhere I could find a place, bushes, etc. I became The Barfer of Seville…

We went back to the hotel, but i was no better, but thankfully, the Farmacia came to the rescue. The hotel receptionist located a pharmacy, gave us the phone number. Since I couldn’t go, my friend, who didn’t speak Spanish, had to go, so I wrote a note for the pharmacist, and thankfully, I was able to get medication. By next day I was feeling better…but my friend THEN got just as sick. There went our planned trip to Gibraltar for that day.

It was all over by the following day, we felt better, walked by the beach, and the next day we resumed our travel without further incident.

What was it? Most likely it was the food, but…I could have picked up a bug while using the trains, Cercanías, grabbing onto handrails, etc, since i”m the one that got it first, incubated it, got symptomatic, and passed it on.

I doubt that in my case, it was the water, although that’s not impossible.
As for the Meseta illnesses, this sounds like a public health/epidemiology issue. (I have a medical background although I’ve been retired for many years so my understanding of these issues may be outdated).

I’m wondering what’s the Public Health infrastructure is like in Spain, or what kind of health regulations or standards the Albergue’s are required to follow, or what may or may not be reportable. I don’t know how much awareness the public health authorities have of these incidents, how they are (or are not) addressing them, or how much priority are given to these cases.

In the meantime, I think it’s safer to drink bottled water, at least on the Meseta, or at least, avoid fuentes that might seem questionable.

 

[Isca-camigo]

KeyserSoza, sorry, not many answers to your query so far - mainly the usual suspects who feel the need to reply to anything, and in this case all they can offer to their audience is generic safety advice.
It's a bit depressing to hear of another GI bug outbreak on the meseta, but sadly not that surprising.
I encountered this last on the CF in late 2018. The dormitory at the Parroquial in Carrion was like some military field hospital with half the occupants severely sick. We worked out that only those who stopped at Hontanas were affected. None of those who did Hornillos-CastroJeriz had symptoms. This has been raised and discussed previously on the forum more than once - so I'm surprised the regulars who have commented so far haven't remembered/referred to this (with the exception of Camino Chrissy).
For me, the regular reporting of these occurrences points to a problem at a particular place on the meseta. But sadly as transients we don't have the wherewithal or tools to either pinpoint the problem or influence a better outcome. When I was walking my Korean pals were saying that they were using their WhatsApp group to forewarn others further back about Hontanas. But the source of the issue remained unaddressed.

It comes and goes in that area of the Meseta, I seen it mentioned too many times over the years by various newbies to dismiss it as coincidence or posters attributing their ill health to something they have heard before about an area.

 

[KeyserSoza]

Thank you all for your considered responses. Perhaps (and hopefully) these instances are just coincidence. However, I’m quite sure these posts will be informative and a good advisory for Peregrinos on avoiding the similar health issues.
My illness free compatriots, two of whom are medicos, suspect the water, but without any solid evidence. However Camino Chrissy’s theory might add some meat to this suspicion.
In my own case I’m fully recovered ( see below) and sticking to bottled water, having a hand sanitiser in my rucksack belt, and tightening up on my own on personal hygiene regime.
Finally, a big shout out for the doctor & nurse in the 24/7 Emergency Dept in the Carrion de Los Condos Health Centre. The centre was closed on Sat when I called. I went around to the ED where within 35 mins of knocking on the door I had a top to tail examination, diagnosis, shot in the ass (for immediate relief from nausea) and sent on my way with a prescription of 4 drugs that had me sorted in 18 hours and back on the road. Another shout out for the EU Health Insurance card which meant all the above was FOC.

 

[Simperegrina]

Thank you all for your considered responses. Perhaps (and hopefully) these instances are just coincidence. However, I’m quite sure these posts will be informative and a good advisory for Peregrinos on avoiding the similar health issues.
My illness free compatriots, two of whom are medicos, suspect the water, but without any solid evidence. However Camino Chrissy’s theory might add some meat to this suspicion.
In my own case I’m fully recovered ( see below) and sticking to bottled water, having a hand sanitiser in my rucksack belt, and tightening up on my own on personal hygiene regime.
Finally, a big shout out for the doctor & nurse in the 24/7 Emergency Dept in the Carrion de Los Condos Health Centre. The centre was closed on Sat when I called. I went around to the ED where within 35 mins of knocking on the door I had a top to tail examination, diagnosis, shot in the ass (for immediate relief from nausea) and sent on my way with a prescription of 4 drugs that had me sorted in 18 hours and back on the road. Another shout out for the EU Health Insurance card which meant all the above was FOC.

One thing I am happy about is that at least we Brits can have GHIC cards. Came in super handy last Oct.

 

[MickMac]

Thank you all for your considered responses. Perhaps (and hopefully) these instances are just coincidence. However, I’m quite sure these posts will be informative and a good advisory for Peregrinos on avoiding the similar health issues.
My illness free compatriots, two of whom are medicos, suspect the water, but without any solid evidence. However Camino Chrissy’s theory might add some meat to this suspicion.
In my own case I’m fully recovered ( see below) and sticking to bottled water, having a hand sanitiser in my rucksack belt, and tightening up on my own on personal hygiene regime.
Finally, a big shout out for the doctor & nurse in the 24/7 Emergency Dept in the Carrion de Los Condos Health Centre. The centre was closed on Sat when I called. I went around to the ED where within 35 mins of knocking on the door I had a top to tail examination, diagnosis, shot in the ass (for immediate relief from nausea) and sent on my way with a prescription of 4 drugs that had me sorted in 18 hours and back on the road. Another shout out for the EU Health Insurance card which meant all the above was FOC.

Great to have the EU insurance Card always carry mine, brilliant.

 

[donnabrion]

Including myself, I have heard of a good few people are experiencing Gastrointestinal issues between Burgos and Ledigos. Anyone else find this and is the situation wider than this area.

Yes! A low key stomach ache, nausea, tired and weak feeling lasting about 5 days

 

[Keyser]

Where did it start?

 

[cemoncamino]

Including myself, I have heard of a good few people are experiencing Gastrointestinal issues between Burgos and Ledigos. Anyone else find this and is the situation wider than this area.

I was very sick in Belorado. Thought it was food poisoning but now think it’s a bug as taking a while to recover. Have met about 15 others who have had similar, from Santa Domingo to Hornillos where I am now - and heard of many others.

 

[PedroG]

Three and a half years ago I got a nasty dose of food poisoning from a cafe menu Pellegrino -in Fromista.
Is that where your issue started?

 

[KeyserSoza]

I felt bad as I sat down to dinner in Fromista when it manifested itself so got it earlier.

 

[Pilgrim Patricia]

My sister and I had a really awful GI bug in Marbella in 1979. Some "horse" (large) pills from the farmacia helped a lot. By coincidence, shortly after my return home I saw the famous Dr. Heimlich being interviewed on TV. He was asked what travellers could do to prevent tourist tummy. Dr. Heimlich pointed out that many of the GI problems experienced by travellers was not because the water was bad, but that it was different from what our guts were used to.

He recommended taking one dose of bismuth (e.g., Pepto-Bismol) for ten days before leaving on a holiday, then one dose each day during your travels. I've done that on about 30 trips to Europe, Tanzania, Morocco and the UK, have never had another GI problem. I also drink the tap water and brush my teeth with it.

Bismuth comes in tablet form now, much easier to carry when travelling. There's nothing quite like leaked pink liquid in your bag!

 

[Rebekah Scott]

If it was the water, EVERYONE would be sick. At least this thread isn't hauling out the old "bad water on the meseta" trope.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Yes! A low key stomach ache, nausea, tired and weak feeling lasting about 5 days

Five days seems a long time to me!

 

[HBS60]

If it was the water, EVERYONE would be sick. At least this thread isn't hauling out the old "bad water on the meseta" trope.

I’m not so sure about that, if the source was a single contaminated fuente, only those that drank from it would be sick, and I doubt that every single person would drink from the same fuente. Also, some people are more susceptible than others. The water is probably safe in general, but things like these can happen. Just one contaminated fuente can get several people sick. That being said, it can be hard to distinguish a waterborne illness from a respiratory illness or a foodborne illness just from the symptoms, it does take some detective work to trace the origin, which is why I mentioned public health. I’m just interested scientifically, as that’s part of my background. If it’s a persistent problem, it may be worth it for whatever public health services/agency that might be available in Spain to investigate. Just my two cents…

 

[Felice]

If you do get a GI infection, then make sure you keep hydrated. Proper oral rehydration salts if you can access them, otherwise a teaspoon of sugar and a pinch of salt in a glass of water in an emergency. It really seems to aid recovery (or maybe my guts are just pretty robust?!!!)

 

[BobY333]

KeyserSoza, sorry, not many answers to your query so far - mainly the usual suspects who feel the need to reply to anything, and in this case all they can offer to their audience is generic safety advice.
It's a bit depressing to hear of another GI bug outbreak on the meseta, but sadly not that surprising.
I encountered this last on the CF in late 2018. The dormitory at the Parroquial in Carrion was like some military field hospital with half the occupants severely sick. We worked out that only those who stopped at Hontanas were affected. None of those who did Hornillos-CastroJeriz had symptoms. This has been raised and discussed previously on the forum more than once - so I'm surprised the regulars who have commented so far haven't remembered/referred to this (with the exception of Camino Chrissy).
For me, the regular reporting of these occurrences points to a problem at a particular place on the meseta. But sadly as transients we don't have the wherewithal or tools to either pinpoint the problem or influence a better outcome. When I was walking my Korean pals were saying that they were using their WhatsApp group to forewarn others further back about Hontanas. But the source of the issue remained unaddressed.

Interesting! We were in Hontanas September 28, 2018, Carrion Sept. 29, and then 5 of 6 got sick and barely made it to Ledigos. We were never able to pinpoint what the problem could have been, but there's a lot of smoke for there to be no fire there (IMO).

Feel better!

 

[makingtrax]

Where did it start?

Ours started Los Arcos and by Burgos all 6 of us including many other pilgrims had been struck by the same symptoms. Mow in Leon and fully recovered after 10 days.

 

[Tincatinker]

I am content that many are prepared to blame an unidentifiable water source somewhere in a near 100km stretch of the road to glory. Nonetheless the major vector of GI tract infection is the well known arse to mouth or bum hole to gobhole route: vomit and fecal contamination of lavatory flushes, door handles, taps - just about any and every surface that the average sufferer will come in contact with. You can add in aerosol spread of vomit and flushed toilets if you like. In prisons, refugee camps and other aggregations of mixed populations (mixed as in from various geographic populations and lacking common immunities) (pilgrim congregations?) GI infections can spread with remarkable speed and efficiency. They seldom kill otherwise reasonably healthy adults though some, sometime around the third day might wish they did.

All that to say that that is the reason I suggested scrupulous personal hygiene is the best available preventative. Perhaps I should have added that that is also the only means of avoiding further transmission

 

[VNwalking]

If it was the water, EVERYONE would be sick. At least this thread isn't hauling out the old "bad water on the meseta" trope.

This. Very true. Something seems to be going on there but it's unlikely to be the water. One or two restaurants (that locals don't frequent much) would explanation a lot.

 

[CWBuff]

He recommended taking one dose of bismuth (e.g., Pepto-Bismol) for ten days before leaving on a holiday, then one dose each day during your travels.

Methinks if me did that - me'd get sick just from drinking this pink stuff on a daily basis.

Never had a need to do anything of a type. The only place I ever retorted to drinking bottled water was Mexico. Not anywhere in Europe (both East & West), not in South America (although to be fair I believe the porters did boil our water while on Camino Inca), not in any part of Caribbean as far as Islands go...

I'm not knocking down the advice. if it works for folks - good for them. Im just saying this one is not for me

 

[HBS60]

I am content that many are prepared to blame an unidentifiable water source somewhere in a near 100km stretch of the road to glory. Nonetheless the major vector of GI tract infection is the well known arse to mouth or bum hole to gobhole route: vomit and fecal contamination of lavatory flushes, door handles, taps - just about any and every surface that the average sufferer will come in contact with. You can add in aerosol spread of vomit and flushed toilets if you like. In prisons, refugee camps and other aggregations of mixed populations (mixed as in from various geographic populations and lacking common immunities) (pilgrim congregations?) GI infections can spread with remarkable speed and efficiency. They seldom kill otherwise reasonably healthy adults though some, sometime around the third day might wish they did.

All that to say that that is the reason I suggested scrupulous personal hygiene is the best available preventative. Perhaps I should have added that that is also the only means of avoiding further transmission

To clarify:
You are absolutely right that things like poor hygiene, aerosol spray, etc, can certainly spread GI infections, but that doesn’t explain the original source of infection. All the hygiene in the world is not going to prevent an infection if people continue to drink from a contaminated source. That being said, it can be very difficult to pinpoint exactly where the infection originated, particularly on a 100 Km stretch. I was thinking more along the lines of epidemiology, which actually started in 1854 during a cholera outbreak in London, and it was traced to the Broad Street pump, which was then shut down with resolution of the problem. That’s a classic example of how epidemiology works. This is why contact tracing to pinpoint the source is important, because as important as hygiene is to contain and limit the spread, if an infectious source is not identified, others will continue to be infected and all the hygiene int he world will not prevent new infections, although it would definitely limit the spread, and that’s a great thing.. This is not about blaming or assuming that it’s just the water, as I see it, it’s about finding the source. It’s basic epidemiology. I’m not an epidemiologist per se, but I did have some public health training way back and that included studying these issues. So I tend to go into clinician mode when these issues come up.
Since we dont’ know the source, it’s definitely a good idea to do what we can to limit the spread, it might be even better if the source can be identified, but i dont’ know the Spanish health system and how they go about these things. I will also say that an outbreak might be self-limited, but it may not. It might as well be from a different reason, like foodborne or via aerosol and maybe water doesn’t have anything to do with it, but at this point, from the healthcare perspective, it’s wise to consider all options.

 

[C clearly]

at this point, from the healthcare perspective, it’s wise to consider all options.

Every year during the busy pilgrim season, we get reports of GI illnesses among pilgrims, along with conjecture about possible contamination, and the safety of the drinking water.

 

[HBS60]

Every year during the busy pilgrim season, we get reports of GI illnesses among pilgrims, along with conjecture about possible contamination, and the safety of the drinking water.

That’s expected. It does happen everywhere. Since i”m a newbie, I dont’ know how much of a problem it really is, which is why I have mentioned that I dont’ know how the Spanish healthcare system handles these things. I do know that being sick throwing up for hours (let alone days) is a horrible experience, and I imagine it would be much worse in the Meseta, so I would like to know how these issues are dealt with. It might be a minimal issue with a few sporadic cases, or it could be a bigger problem that needs better attention. I hope I’m not being inappropriate by voicing these concerns…

 

[Bristle Boy]

I hope my experience might add something to this discussion.
I live in a rural area, a small village, about two miles from a busy airport. Every year, with almost foreseeable timing, there will be an outbreak of norovirus or sickness and diarrhoea. It always coincides with the return from the school holidays and the end of the holiday season.
@Tincatinker is perfectly correct and the scource is attributable to poor hygiene and the contamination of human waste to mouth (amongst other faecal transmission), this being the most common cause of contamination. From there on in it is spread from human to human at a fairly rapid rate. Some people are resilient to the virus and most are not. Recent history should attest to that.
The village I live is supported by the travel industry (accomodation providers, families who work at the airport and have daily contact with returning travellers along with the normal foreign holiday rituals). It has a very clean water supply and is no worse or better per capita concerning personal cleanliness than any other geographic area. And yet it would seem to be be affected to a far greater extent to Gastro Intestinal infections than others and on a regular basis (once the children have been incubated in the classroom after the school holidays).
Good personal hygiene is the answer but once this is not adhered to an outbreak and cross infection is inevitable.

 

[BobY333]

The part that still doesn’t add up for me is why it frequently seems to pop up in the same place - Carrion de los Condes or thereabouts?

 

[HBS60]

The part that still doesn’t add up for me is why it frequently seems to pop up in the same place - Carrion de los Condes or thereabouts?

That’s probably what sent me down the Public Health rabbit hole. Somebody upthread mentioned something about a questionable fuente, so to me that alerts me to the possibility of a source of origin. Of course, it could be a combination of things, like outside travelers, end of school holidays, etc.
It can be difficult/impossible to trace this to a single cause, but it all depends on the extent/severity of the problem.

 

[dougfitz]

Since we dont’ know the source, it’s definitely a good idea to do what we can to limit the spread, it might be even better if the source can be identified, but i dont’ know the Spanish health system and how they go about these things.

Without any particular justification beyond Spain being a modern, highly developed, country, I think you could trust the public health arrangements. What I suspect is that one cannot trust pilgrims. In many years of watching this topic when it re-appears almost each year, it seems that only a relatively small number seek medical treatment, relying instead on anti-nausea and anti-diarrheal treatments they have on them or obtain from a pharmacy. There's nothing wrong with that, but it is less likely to involve any first level forensic enquiry into the dining, drinking and hygiene behaviours practiced over the preceding few days.

People remember, and blame, the places they ate at the night before, but when pushed on where else they have been in the past several days, no longer seem to remember these details as accurately. Perhaps that is no surprise, but it is of less help, even were that information to get to the responsible public health agency for further investigation.

 

[williamlittig]

Including myself, I have heard of a good few people are experiencing Gastrointestinal issues between Burgos and Ledigos. Anyone else find this and is the situation wider than this area.

I'm sorry to hear of anyones illness. I bring Peptobysmal (generic) and take two each day. It has worked well for me. Once I ran out and couldn't relate a translation to a pharmacist.

 

[HBS60]

Without any particular justification beyond Spain being a modern, highly developed, country, I think you could trust the public health arrangements. What I suspect is that one cannot trust pilgrims. In many years of watching this topic when it re-appears almost each year, it seems that only a relatively small number seek medical treatment, relying instead on anti-nausea and anti-diarrheal treatments they have on them or obtain from a pharmacy. There's nothing wrong with that, but it is less likely to involve any first level forensic enquiry into the dining, drinking and hygiene behaviours practiced over the preceding few days.

People remember, and blame, the places they ate at the night before, but when pushed on where else they have been in the past several days, no longer seem to remember these details as accurately. Perhaps that is no surprise, but it is of less help, even were that information to get to the responsible public health agency for further investigation.

Excellent point, sir!

 

[dbeatriceb]

I remember in years past many people pointed their finger at the drinking water in Carrion which comes from wells and/or the river. If the water level was high or low, I can't remember which, there would be numerous stomach upsets. There were many staunch denials regarding this suspicion.

Low water levels would help concentrate any bugs in the water system that could potentially cause GI problems. I remember discussing this with my sister-in-law, a pediatrician in Catalonia, who was seeing a lot of patients with such problems one summer when there was a drought.

 

[dbeatriceb]

This reminds me of a nasty bug I got while visiting Spain back in 2009 with a friend. After 3 great days in Barcelona, we went to Malaga via train, then visited Seville, had breakfast at a cute little sidewalk cafe, and within 2 hours I was throwing up all over town. My friend told me that there was something off about the food (we ate the same thing, I think it was a pork sandwich) but I didn’t notice anything, maybe because I’m more familiar with Hispanic food in general. But I was miserably sick, throwing up everywhere I could find a place, bushes, etc. I became The Barfer of Seville…

We went back to the hotel, but i was no better, but thankfully, the Farmacia came to the rescue. The hotel receptionist located a pharmacy, gave us the phone number. Since I couldn’t go, my friend, who didn’t speak Spanish, had to go, so I wrote a note for the pharmacist, and thankfully, I was able to get medication. By next day I was feeling better…but my friend THEN got just as sick. There went our planned trip to Gibraltar for that day.

It was all over by the following day, we felt better, walked by the beach, and the next day we resumed our travel without further incident.

What was it? Most likely it was the food, but…I could have picked up a bug while using the trains, Cercanías, grabbing onto handrails, etc, since i”m the one that got it first, incubated it, got symptomatic, and passed it on.

I doubt that in my case, it was the water, although that’s not impossible.
As for the Meseta illnesses, this sounds like a public health/epidemiology issue. (I have a medical background although I’ve been retired for many years so my understanding of these issues may be outdated).

I’m wondering what’s the Public Health infrastructure is like in Spain, or what kind of health regulations or standards the Albergue’s are required to follow, or what may or may not be reportable. I don’t know how much awareness the public health authorities have of these incidents, how they are (or are not) addressing them, or how much priority are given to these cases.

In the meantime, I think it’s safer to drink bottled water, at least on the Meseta, or at least, avoid fuentes that might seem questionable.

I always drink bottled water, on the Camino and while touring. Water treatment differs place to place and I definitely don’t have a cast iron stomach. So because my gut might not tolerate something in the municipal water with which locals have no problem, I prefer to try to avoid potential problems altogether.

 

[HeatherJourney]

It’s so unpleasant to have a stomach illness, but I’m glad the OP is now feeling better.

I was wondering in the case that pilgrims become ill, are they allowed to stay more than one night in the same place to recover, or do they go to a hotel? I’m sure nobody wants to be sick around strangers, but how do people manage to rest and get better?

 

[Colokid]

Including myself, I have heard of a good few people are experiencing Gastrointestinal issues between Burgos and Ledigos. Anyone else find this and is the situation wider than this area.

Passed through that area last week, although first heard of - and experienced - the bug at El Burgo Ranero. Both of us got it a few days ago Yes, 5 days would seem about right ...still being resolved.

 

[Colokid]

It’s so unpleasant to have a stomach illness, but I’m glad the OP is now feeling better.

I was wondering in the case that pilgrims become ill, are they allowed to stay more than one night in the same place to recover, or do they go to a hotel? I’m sure nobody wants to be sick around strangers, but how do people manage to rest and get better?

I think it best to seek a motel, considering the bug (which i and my fellow traveler are experiencing) seems to spread by contagion. And would be a good precaution for any sickness.

 

[hikentravel1234]

GI infections are usually population specific not geographic. That is someone in your cohort has shared their affliction and others are also. High standards of personal hygiene is the only resolution

Actually, some GI infections can very much be site specific. A few years ago, the Norovirus, was affecting hikers in a specific area who had stayed in a specific shelter. Many had to go to a ER. They closed down the sheltered and disinfected the shelter.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

If there was bad water in Carrion de los Condes, wouldn't the people of Carrion de los Condes be sick, too? If a restaurant in Fromista was selling bad food, wouldn't enough locals get sick that they'd figure it out and shut it down? Why is it only the pilgrims have these illnesses, while the residents stay normally healthy? I don't think it's the water or food supply, even though that makes for a romantic story back home. So much more exciting than dirty doorknobs or hacking coughs in the dormitory.
I think it's people eating food that's been in their backpack for too long, fruit that's not been peeled or rinsed, using hands or knives or forks that haven't been washed, sharing bottles and knives... all those wonderful sharing things that happen along the trail.

 

[Lleslie]

As mentioned by a couple of people above - much more likely spread by contaminated surfaces - someone with poor hygeine after using the toilet touching the tap of water supply then others coming along touching the tap and the cap of their bottle while filling etc etc. Also some bugs such as norovirus aren't killed by hand sanitizer - you need soap and water to break down their outer surface. We all like to blame our last meal/water top up when these things happen however often these bugs can take 24hours or several days to manifest making it hard to pin point the source. Not nice getting sick so far from home - hope all those affected are getting better and able to continue their journey

 

[lalaone]

I remember wanting to share a potentially dangerous water fountain experience - and not doing so because it seemed unwelcome. But for whatever it’s worth, Ledigos stays in my mind. Two summers ago, a heat wave. My husband drank two bottles from the fountain and filled up another. He was already having problems with cramping, probably dehydration, since Carrion de los Condes, so he was primed about water. He kept feeling worse throughout the evening and what came the next day was a concern. The water in his bottle smelled foul, very foul. Other pilgrims who filled up there then checked their bottles and they also smelled something foul. They all poured it out and got bottled water that morning. I never knew if there was something wrong with the fountain in Ledigos, something before that, or if it was something completely innocuous in the water that simply smelled bad. Maybe it was just the latter! Or maybe it was something unrelated. The smell the next day was always the strange part to me though, and the only experience he had on that front. No aspersions to any towns intended, just sharing an experience that prompted pilgrims to act out of an abundance of caution.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Including myself, I have heard of a good few people are experiencing Gastrointestinal issues between Burgos and Ledigos. Anyone else find this and is the situation wider than this area.

Seems to happen every year to some people in that area, and in our discussions of it and investigations, we've never discovered why it happens. Some people think it's something in either the local water or the local food, that the locals might be immune to, but the evidence for either of those theories is fairly weak due to some pilgrims drinking bottled water and eating their own food or supermarket food and still getting it.

 

[mlhhome]

For what its’ worth….a pharmacist recommended that during my bout to:
- hydrate (bottled water)
- add some electrolytes to your water (not too much),
- avoid salty and rich food (yikes), red wine and
- eat plain yogurt, boiled eggs and white rice

It worked for me and after 4 days I fully recovered and enjoyed eating again!

 

[JabbaPapa]

It worked for me and after 4 days I fully recovered and enjoyed eating again!

The one time I had it, in 2021, I did none of that stuff, and it cleared up in about 24 to 36 hours.

YMMV

 

[BookGirl305]

It could also be something as simple as how foods are prepared and stored. On my one day camino two years ago, I went to Gibraltar after. In the Malaga train station to head back to Madrid, they have this amazing supermarket. I bought a sandwich and a dessert with a meringue- everything was clean and professional. But when eating the dessert on the train, I remember it was runny inside the meringue as if the egg whites hadn't been fully cooked. the sandwich had cured meat (probably ham) but that is also not refrigerated. Which might be fine for your average Spaniard who has grown up with those foods prepared and stored that way but not an American whose system is used to pasteurization. It hit that night and I spent the next day and a half in the hotel room waiting for it all to be over. The hotel dinner that night was beautifully prepared but with a very heavy olive oil. I figured it was just food I wasn't used to.

 

[Dougie]

Including myself, I have heard of a good few people are experiencing Gastrointestinal issues between Burgos and Ledigos. Anyone else find this and is the situation wider than this area.

A cluster I walked with got it before Burgos

 

[dreaming]

I ate pulpo gallego in Santiago one evening. The next day I caught a plane to Paris and stayed at the airport hotel. I ate cold pasta from a food truck out the front. He told me it was hot. I was violently ill six hours later. I had to move rooms in the middle of the night and then catch a 24 hour flight home. I don't know if it was the octopus or the food truck but I am not having either again. The joys of travel.

 

[Ken & Liz]

Including myself, I have heard of a good few people are experiencing Gastrointestinal issues between Burgos and Ledigos. Anyone else find this and is the situation wider than this area.

I got it real bad in Fromista, and have had to take taxi from then on rather than cancel my bookings last night in Reliegos 4 out of the 9 of us have had it and 2 others symptoms. Plus know of at least 8 others and have heard others are in hospital

 

[DoughnutANZ]

I don't know if it was the octopus or the food truck but I am not having either again

This seems to be a relatively common way that people live their lives and I also have done this in the past and said "I am not doing that again".

These days I try not to have accidents create my path through life.

 

[Bristle Boy]

There are any number of ways at which a norovirus infection can enter the human population. It is a virus ingested either by water or food and is highly contagious between humans through touch and through vapour transmission.
With an incubation period of anything up to 24 hours (and perhaps longer) between infection and the unfortunate effects of being unwell it is difficult to identify the scource of which there could be several.
Topography of the meseta may also be a contributory factor.
I am sure this thread will surface next year and the year after as it has done in previous years with no sign of conclusion. Because there are clusters of visible illness does not mean that this was the scource of infection. Sometimes this is the conclusion so easily jumped to.
As an afterthought, and no doubt controversial, with an activity that leaves human faeces and byproducts capable of infecting local water courses and aquifers and away from normal sewage and treatment systems....why is it any surprise that there are outbreaks of viral contagion?

 

[Zadilly]

Hi,

Including myself, I have heard of a good few people are experiencing Gastrointestinal issues between Burgos and Ledigos. Anyone else find this and is the situation wider than this area.

I had stomach issues after Burgos. I didn’t eat all day and felt better. Had breakfast the next day any felt fine after that, But then a few hours later drank water I had gotten from a fountain the day before and got sick really quickly. I got a private room and took a rest day. I was ill for the next day even though I changed out my water. Then I tossed my water bottle and have been buying bottled water since. Not sure it was the water but it sure seems like it.

 

[Sacha]

Including myself, I have heard of a good few people are experiencing Gastrointestinal issues between Burgos and Ledigos. Anyone else find this and is the situation wider than this area.

I live in Andorra and the east coast of Spain. It is very widespread. My family has had it and many people I know from both Andorra and Spain. This years stomach virus is the worst I have ever experienced.

I recommend Ondansentron 4mg if you cant stop vomitting.

 

[jrmulcare]

Including myself, I have heard of a good few people are experiencing Gastrointestinal issues between Burgos and Ledigos. Anyone else find this and is the situation wider than this area.

I finished the Frances two days ago. When I walked into Atapuerca it was as if someone turned on a switch in which I went feeling great and knocking out the miles, to someone who was very sick. It started with chills, then terrible lower GI problems, headache and wicked fatigue. Shortly after the vomiting set in. I was so fatigued I couldn’t move and didn’t want to for fear of messing up my clothes. I had to take taxi to hospital in Burgos to see a doc and get prescriptions. After 48 hours I was good-to-go but that was the worst two days in my life. Couldn’t eat at all so I had zero energy. Doctors believes it was norovirus. Based in my layman’s research I agree with the prognosis. It hit me from out of the blue but I recovered soon after meds kicked in. I stayed in an albergue in Altapuerca but symptoms started before I had a chance to even drop my pack. In speaking to other pilgrims later they told me that on two separate occasions other pilgrim the area went through similar misery including one pilgrim who was there the day before I arrived and another the day after I left. I’m not an epidemiologist butf something was in the air/water there. The 150€ I spent at hospital was well worth it to get the meds I needed.

 

[Anniesantiago]

Hi,

I had stomach issues after Burgos. I didn’t eat all day and felt better. Had breakfast the next day any felt fine after that, But then a few hours later drank water I had gotten from a fountain the day before and got sick really quickly. I got a private room and took a rest day. I was ill for the next day even though I changed out my water. Then I tossed my water bottle and have been buying bottled water since. Not sure it was the water but it sure seems like it.

When it rains so hard the streams run brown I do not drink from the fountains. Whether or not it matters, so far it’s worked.

 

[CindyA]

A cluster I walked with got it before Burgos

I am currently sick with a GI bug. Started as I arrived in Burgos (before eating anything there). I know of others who were sick at the same time. Stayed in private rooms for several days before getting sick and very careful with hygiene which makes me think it was water or food I ate. I am now drinking only bottled water just in case this was a source. It’s not fun!

 

[JillGat]

If there was bad water in Carrion de los Condes, wouldn't the people of Carrion de los Condes be sick, too? If a restaurant in Fromista was selling bad food, wouldn't enough locals get sick that they'd figure it out and shut it down? Why is it only the pilgrims have these illnesses, while the residents stay normally healthy? I don't think it's the water or food supply, even though that makes for a romantic story back home. So much more exciting than dirty doorknobs or hacking coughs in the dormitory.
I think it's people eating food that's been in their backpack for too long, fruit that's not been peeled or rinsed, using hands or knives or forks that haven't been washed, sharing bottles and knives... all those wonderful sharing things that happen along the trail.

Only anecdotal, but I remember a number of reports of gasto-illnesses after Conde de Carrion a couple years ago. Local people wouldn't necessarly get sick. With certain bugs, the intestinal bacterial flora can learn to accomodate or defend against them. Newly exposed would get sick, tho.

 

[Lindsay from Scotland]

I’m hearing it from with people two or three days behind me whom I have never met.

Have you left anything behind you which might explain it

 

[AMS610]

Including myself, I have heard of a good few people are experiencing Gastrointestinal issues between Burgos and Ledigos. Anyone else find this and is the situation wider than this area.

Late in answering here…short version…I got sick with GI issues in Ledigos early fall of 2022. On day 5 went to doctor in Astorga and she shook her head and said too hot in Ledigos should not drink water.

 

[Marbe2]

There are a few stomach bugs that are infectious and easily transmitted, and hard to kill - even alcohol handgel isn't sufficient. In close quarters such bugs can spread easily. I always carry soap with me - so many toilets lack any - but a good hand-wash is important!

Contaminated water in towns does happen but generally the locals will figure that out fairly quickly. Untreated fuentes are risky - but on the CF there are plenty of fuentes that are tap water supplied (rather than a spring). Water is probably less likely the source unless very large numbers are ill (or have drunk from untreated fuente/spring)

Contaminated food/food poisoning is also a likely cause - just some unwashed hands or something not properly prepared or stored.

I am really surprised there are not more infections on the CF! The conditions and lack of ventilation in some locations on the CF forces me to avoid certain bathrooms at all cost, unless, we early risers, get to it before the crowds.

Sometimes there is no soap, no toilet paper, and the location is too dirty to attempt to even use the faucet. I am not criticizing the owners, except for ventilation issues! I believe the volume of pilgrims overwhelms the facility supplies, and some people are just inconsiderate of other pilgrims. Don’t assume anyone is thoroughly washing their hands, certainly not everyone before you that day!

If you are using bathrooms along the CF, in high season, always bring a supply of toilet paper and wet wipes or alcohol wipes. Realize too that the door handles to your stalls and the doors are full of germs! Clean your hands thoroughly before you touch your stick handles again!!

 

[Lleslie]

And definitely before you pick up your food in your hands or the top of your drink bottle. Remember that some virus's (particuarly the highly contagious norovirus) are only destroyed by washing your hands thoroughly with soap and water - hand sanitizers don't kill all bugs.

 

[Marbe2]

And definitely before you pick up your food in your hands or the top of your drink bottle. Remember that some virus's (particuarly the highly contagious norovirus) are only destroyed by washing your hands thoroughly with soap and water - hand sanitizers don't kill all bugs.

Actually we usually use tissues which I carry and periodically replenish, to touch the handles and open the bathroom doors. We also do this on airplanes because their bathrooms are disgusting too! Clorox wipes, which will kill the Norovirus, are brought from home. We also bring a small amount of Hydrogen peroxide as well as a disinfectant. Clorox wipes are used on our plane tray tables, armrests and video screens. And we've always put KN 95 masks on when in an airplane bathroom or any bathroom with little ventilation. Never do we touch the any bathroom latch, either side of the airplane bathroom door. We are seniors and want to avoid viruses overseas.

 

[Mary Joy O'Meara]

Including myself, I have heard of a good few people are experiencing Gastrointestinal issues between Burgos and Ledigos. Anyone else find this and is the situation wider than this area.

I can confirm that there is a bad stomach flu making its rounds on the Camino Frances. I first saw sick people in Atapuerca. Violently sick suddenly in the night. I stayed healthy for over a week, perhaps because I tried to stay in private rooms where available. Frequent reports of fellow pilgrims getting sick. When I got to Astorga I planned to stay two nights because friends of mine were a day behind. I was in an albergue. The first night I felt absolutely fine. The flu hit me like a freight train at roughly 5:00 pm on the second night. Immediately I gathered my belongings and headed for the closest private room. Spent that night and then a third night in Astorga. Classic stomach flu symptoms. Within 24 hours the bad stuff subsided but it has been taking me a while to get my appetite back. I have stayed alone for four nights. If at all possible, I recommend staying away from other pilgrims if you feel sick.

 

[JamesHowe]

I'm currently on the Meseta and down with suspected food poisoning or bad water. But also could be a.bug picked up along the way. Not pleasant bur I am getting some much needed sleep and relaxation.

Onward tomorrow!

 

[dreaming]

This seems to be a relatively common way that people live their lives and I also have done this in the past and said "I am not doing that again".

These days I try not to have accidents create my path through life.

I do understand what you mean however I didn't like the octopus very much and can live without food trucks. I have never been so violently unwell.

 

[dramig]

Wash your hands! Especially if you are preparing food. I have seen upwards of 5 people making a communal meal where there is no soap in the toilet area nor the kitchen area. The likely culprit of a number of these illnesses would be poor hand hygiene, especially with food preparers. All it takes is one or two chronic non-hand washers to cause a widespread outbreak. GI infections running through numerous people are common at large camping expeditions, river trips and whenever it is hard to practice hand washing and when using the toilet in rustic or primitive areas.

I personally stay away from rural well sources, especially near farms. I try to plan ahead with the amount of water I am carrying. I never worry about municipal treated water as I have read that Spain has advanced water treatment systems. I always fill up at cafes or an albergue. I figure the extra weight is an easy trade-off for warding off the chance of an Illness.

If I hear of GI symptoms among common travelers, I keep out a watchful eye and can always choose to not have a communal meal and chose to eat light that night and try to have a back-up baguette / bar / fruit if things seem off. Then again, I bite my nails, so maybe I will roll the dice hoping my immune system is robust?