Spend some time in Porto

[peregrina2000]

Porto is a city well worth a sustained visit, but if you are walking through, I'd suggest that you at least take a rest day here. Porto has beautiful "bones", layered over by years of inadequate funds to maintain its beauty, and the result is a kind of gritty beauty that leaves most of us in awe.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...urs-in-porto-portugal.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0

 

[amorfati1]

thanks for this link Laurie - have missed it in NYT -
and Yes - Si ! would encourage everyone to spend extra time in Porto - really has a vibrant feel and is imbued with also times past and much glory and grit.
Porto is Portugal second largest city -- and there are not many european cities of that size who have been spared dropped bombs and other war-induced mayhem of the last century -
and I really can recommend the visit @ Caterdrale Se' AND the cloister visit .... and yes , the Sao Bento station features amazing large tiles 'murals' - such beauty.
shall be back for sure ...
Obrigado again for this link ...

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Does anyone know about the origin of Porto's tile work and if it has any links with the Dutch blue tile?

 

[CanPete]

Does anyone know about the origin of Porto's tile work and if it has any links with the Dutch blue tile?

HISTORY of the DUTCH TILE ​

ORIGIN
Man have been making objects of clay for many thousands of years. These were fired at a temperature of 800-1000° Celsius. This type of earthenware is porous and not suitable for liquids. The discovery of lead-glaze, many centuries ago, has been very important. Objects covered with lead-glaze are fired a second time and in the process the lead-glaze melts and hardens into a thin layer of transparent and glasslike material. The object becomes impregnated and waterproof; at the same time the surface is much more interesting and improved.

In the Middle-East, about 1000-600 before Christ, tin-glaze was used. After firing this becomes opaque and a shiny white. The decorations which are applied on top of this white surface stand out clearly. This technique of decoration initiated an important change in ceramic art.

When Egypt, North-Africa and Spain were conquered by Arabic (Islamic) tribes (in the 6th - 14th century), it was not only the Islamic belief that became wide spread, the Islamic art and its highly developed architecture became also widely known.

fig. 1 The polychrome pattern is composed by more than one tile. End of 16th c. ​

The tiled walls of the Alhambra (14th century), the palace of the Moorish (Islamic) Kings in Granada (Southern Spain) are magnificent examples of Islamic art. Glazing of ceramics was then introduced into Northern-Europe.

Spain developed an industry of earthenware and tiles which flourished in the 15th century. Moorish influences continued to be felt for a long time in the decorations. From Spain a lot of earthenware was exported to Italy. And this contributed to the establishment of an important earthenware industry in Northern Italy.
In the early part of the 16th century, Antwerp was a thriving port and a centre of science and culture, attracting many people from elsewhere, also many Italian potters. Among other things, they made polychrome tiles with ornamental patterns. The colours were blue, green, purple, orange-brown and bright yellow (fig. 1).

fig. 2 Polychrome tile with just a part of the pattern. First half 17th c.​

Each tile bears parts of the total pattern (fig. 2), the whole pattern being completed on 4 or 16 tiles, which produced a fine decorated effect (fig. 3).

fig. 3 The entire pattern is built up with 16 polychrome tiles. First half 17th c.​

In 1585, during the Eighty Years War, Antwerp was taken by the Spaniards. Trade came to stand still, freedom of religion was put to an end. This resulted in many tradesmen going abroad. Among them were the potters, who left for England, Germany and the Northern-Netherlands.

DUTCH TILES
It is understandable that the first tiles made in the Northern-Netherlands bear much resemblance to those who are made in the southern part of the Low Countries. After some time, about 1600, they begin to show a character which is more genuinely Dutch even if still polychrome. The ornamental pattern of the tile is gradually disappearing. Each tile gets its main motif, such as a portrait, a soldier or an animal, in a circle or a square (fig. 4).
Later we see all kinds of fruit (pomegranates, grapes, oranges and apples) and flowers appearing on the tiles. A characteristic feature is also that blue/white decorations of the corners of each tile, make a new pattern when four tiles are put together (fig. 5).

Early in the 17th century kilns for earthenware and tiles are appearing in Utrecht, Delft, Gouda, Hoorn, Enkhuizen, Makkum and Bolsward.

 

[Former member 22438]

Does anyone know about the origin of Porto's tile work and if it has any links with the Dutch blue tile?

Ha ha. We allways say we Dutch invented the tiles but as @CanPete shows the Wiki page , the technique comes from the Middle East and brought by the Spaniards to the northwest of Europe. Although the Delft blue ceramics and tiles are world famous I must admit that the Iberic (Spanish and Portuguese) art of ceramics from the Middle Ages and 17th century is much more detailed .
But we developped the technique of painting and painted our "wooden shoes" so called "klompen"
Never saw anybody walking the caminho on them. I am afraid the caminho will be full of blisters
I really love the Portuguese tiles and ceramic like as Claudia says the São Bento station in Porto and at the outside of some churches.

For those who are able to start in Lisbon.Follow the yellow waymarkers from the Sé cathedral and you will pass the Portuguese national tile museum Museo de Azulejos which is worthwhile to visit.

Bom caminho

 

[Former member 22438]

Dutch walkingshoes

https://www.google.nl/url?sa=i&sour...fLnGXWjt9Jeg7uzvww&ust=1454226543311271&rct=j

 

[Anniesantiago]

In Porto, down by the river, are the BEST grilled sardinhas in the whole wide world!
YUM!

 

[TaijiPilgrim]

HISTORY of the DUTCH TILE ​

ORIGIN
Man have been making objects of clay for many thousands of years. These were fired at a temperature of 800-1000° Celsius. This type of earthenware is porous and not suitable for liquids. The discovery of lead-glaze, many centuries ago, has been very important. Objects covered with lead-glaze are fired a second time and in the process the lead-glaze melts and hardens into a thin layer of transparent and glasslike material. The object becomes impregnated and waterproof; at the same time the surface is much more interesting and improved.

In the Middle-East, about 1000-600 before Christ, tin-glaze was used. After firing this becomes opaque and a shiny white. The decorations which are applied on top of this white surface stand out clearly. This technique of decoration initiated an important change in ceramic art.

When Egypt, North-Africa and Spain were conquered by Arabic (Islamic) tribes (in the 6th - 14th century), it was not only the Islamic belief that became wide spread, the Islamic art and its highly developed architecture became also widely known.

fig. 1 The polychrome pattern is composed by more than one tile. End of 16th c. ​

The tiled walls of the Alhambra (14th century), the palace of the Moorish (Islamic) Kings in Granada (Southern Spain) are magnificent examples of Islamic art. Glazing of ceramics was then introduced into Northern-Europe.

Spain developed an industry of earthenware and tiles which flourished in the 15th century. Moorish influences continued to be felt for a long time in the decorations. From Spain a lot of earthenware was exported to Italy. And this contributed to the establishment of an important earthenware industry in Northern Italy.
In the early part of the 16th century, Antwerp was a thriving port and a centre of science and culture, attracting many people from elsewhere, also many Italian potters. Among other things, they made polychrome tiles with ornamental patterns. The colours were blue, green, purple, orange-brown and bright yellow (fig. 1).

fig. 2 Polychrome tile with just a part of the pattern. First half 17th c.
Each tile bears parts of the total pattern (fig. 2), the whole pattern being completed on 4 or 16 tiles, which produced a fine decorated effect (fig. 3).

fig. 3 The entire pattern is built up with 16 polychrome tiles. First half 17th c.
In 1585, during the Eighty Years War, Antwerp was taken by the Spaniards. Trade came to stand still, freedom of religion was put to an end. This resulted in many tradesmen going abroad. Among them were the potters, who left for England, Germany and the Northern-Netherlands.

DUTCH TILES
It is understandable that the first tiles made in the Northern-Netherlands bear much resemblance to those who are made in the southern part of the Low Countries. After some time, about 1600, they begin to show a character which is more genuinely Dutch even if still polychrome. The ornamental pattern of the tile is gradually disappearing. Each tile gets its main motif, such as a portrait, a soldier or an animal, in a circle or a square (fig. 4).
Later we see all kinds of fruit (pomegranates, grapes, oranges and apples) and flowers appearing on the tiles. A characteristic feature is also that blue/white decorations of the corners of each tile, make a new pattern when four tiles are put together (fig. 5).

Early in the 17th century kilns for earthenware and tiles are appearing in Utrecht, Delft, Gouda, Hoorn, Enkhuizen, Makkum and Bolsward.

Thank you CanPete. This puts ceramic tile into a better historical perspective for me. I think Portuguese tile is distinctive, and I was going to stop at the tile museum in Lisbon, but ran out of time. Another question that came to mind as I was enjoying Portuguese egg custard tarts in Porto is which came first ... the Portuguese tart or the delectable Chinese egg custard tart which is often offered at dim sum. Since the Portuguese were ruling Macao, did they bring this treat to China or did the Chinese teach them something new?

 

[peregrina2000]

Thank you CanPete. This puts ceramic tile into a better historical perspective for me. I think Portuguese tile is distinctive, and I was going to stop at the tile museum in Lisbon, but ran out of time. Another question that came to mind as I was enjoying Portuguese egg custard tarts in Porto is which came first ... the Portuguese tart or the delectable Chinese egg custard tart which is often offered at dim sum. Since the Portuguese were ruling Macao, did they bring this treat to China or did the Chinese teach them something new?

Your question intrigued me -- according to Wikipedia, the pastel de nata originated at the San Jeronimos monastery in Belem outside Lisbon in the 18th century, and it was spread from there to Macao and then to China.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastel_de_nata

What I found most interesting is the answer to the question I've always had about why are so many of these convent/monastery treats based in egg yolks. Apparently back in the 18th century, egg whites were used to put starch in clothing (particularly nuns' habits) and so there were lots of egg yolks sitting around.

 

[TaijiPilgrim]

Your question intrigued me -- according to Wikipedia, the pastel de nata originated at the San Jeronimos monastery in Belem outside Lisbon in the 18th century, and it was spread from there to Macao and then to China.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastel_de_nata

What I found most interesting is the answer to the question I've always had about why are so many of these convent/monastery treats based in egg yolks. Apparently back in the 18th century, egg whites were used to put starch in clothing (particularly nuns' habits) and so there were lots of egg yolks sitting around.

Thanks and glad you share my need to know such things! What a delicious way to waste not want not!

 

[Gailsie]

I absolutely vote for as much time as possible spent in Porto, before, during or after your camino. I was there for a day and a half and spent my time walking around taking in the sights, visited the cathedral and the famous bookstore and wanted more. It is a wonderful city with lots to see. Next time I want to take a boat trip on the Duoro River. I am hoping to get back and stay in the Matsoinhos area so I can do some coastal walking. Loved the boardwalks.

 

[CanPete]

Ha ha. We allways say we Dutch invented the tiles but as @CanPete shows the Wiki page , the technique comes from the Middle East and brought by the Spaniards to the northwest of Europe. Although the Delft blue ceramics and tiles are world famous I must admit that the Iberic (Spanish and Portuguese) art of ceramics from the Middle Ages and 17th century is much more detailed .
But we developped the technique of painting and painted our "wooden shoes" so called "klompen"
Never saw anybody walking the caminho on them. I am afraid the caminho will be full of blisters
I really love the Portuguese tiles and ceramic like as Claudia says the São Bento station in Porto and at the outside of some churches.

For those who are able to start in Lisbon.Follow the yellow waymarkers from the Sé cathedral and you will pass the Portuguese national tile museum Museo de Azulejos which is worthwhile to visit.

Bom caminho

Ola Albertinho !

Going to write you in English as my Portuguese written skills are sub-par and the others in the forum might be interested in reading my response.
As a Dutch born Canadian, who used to live and work in Portugal, I think the influence of both the Portuguese and the Moorish in history is under reported. The remaining architecture, particularly in southern Portugal is a mere example of that . . .
I used to live in Porto (Vila Nova de Gaia) in the late 80's and enjoyed strolling through Porto and taking in the history. Rua Santa Catarina was one of my favorites (Cafe Majestic~ now completely renovated), up the street form the cafe there is another landmark building with the classic blue tiles (I forget what kind of building it is). Not sure on how many albergues there are in Porto though . . .

I've got a question for you : My wife's family is from the Vila Real area (Freixo) and in Vila Real proper I have seen a marker for the Portuguese Caminho (downtown plaza~ close to the church).
Have you walked the interior Portuguese route ? What were your experiences ? Do you know how popular the route is ?

Obrigado & Bom Caminho !

 

[Introibo]

Shabby chic. Loved my time in Porto.

 

[Former member 22438]

Ola Albertinho !

Going to write you in English as my Portuguese written skills are sub-par and the others in the forum might be interested in reading my response.
As a Dutch born Canadian, who used to live and work in Portugal, I think the influence of both the Portuguese and the Moorish in history is under reported. The remaining architecture, particularly in southern Portugal is a mere example of that . . .
I used to live in Porto (Vila Nova de Gaia) in the late 80's and enjoyed strolling through Porto and taking in the history. Rua Santa Catarina was one of my favorites (Cafe Majestic~ now completely renovated), up the street form the cafe there is another landmark building with the classic blue tiles (I forget what kind of building it is). Not sure on how many albergues there are in Porto though . . .

I've got a question for you : My wife's family is from the Vila Real area (Freixo) and in Vila Real proper I have seen a marker for the Portuguese Caminho (downtown plaza~ close to the church).
Have you walked the interior Portuguese route ? What were your experiences ? Do you know how popular the route is ?

Obrigado & Bom Caminho !

Podemos falar e escrivir no Português se você deseja

No we did not walk a rota interior yet but saw a part of it the other day (by car )
But on the subforum of the rota interior you can read the most recent updates and experiences of other people .
As far as I know not many people are walking the rota interior due to this caminho untill now is not very wellknown .
My wife and I walked the central route from Lisbon and the coastal from Viana da Castelo.
This year we will walk a part of the camino Francès and after that we will come to Portugal , camping. We love Portugal.

Met vriendelijke groeten uit Holland ,klompenland

 

[Former member 22438]

In Porto, down by the river, are the BEST grilled sardinhas in the whole wide world!
YUM!

Did you try the chorizo, grilled with the aguardente ?

 

[Former member 22438]

I absolutely vote for as much time as possible spent in Porto, before, during or after your camino. I was there for a day and a half and spent my time walking around taking in the sights, visited the cathedral and the famous bookstore and wanted more. It is a wonderful city with lots to see. Next time I want to take a boat trip on the Duoro River. I am hoping to get back and stay in the Matsoinhos area so I can do some coastal walking. Loved the boardwalks.

If you are lucky-as we were last year -attend fado singing in a local pub, where the locals sing their tragic songs. With a portwine or a beer they forget all their sorrows. We had a great time. By coincidence we heard about it and were lucky to get into the pub.it was packed.

 

[peregrina2000]

. Next time I want to take a boat trip on the Duoro River.

To Gailsie and anyone else who is thinking about a boat trip on the Douro River. This may not be as plausible from Porto as it is from Peso da Regua (where the Caminho Portugues Interior crosses the Douro), but I would highly recommend that you visit the further east part of the Douro Valley, particularly from Pinhao east to Pocinho. It is hands down the most beautiful part of the wine growing Douro Valley, and there is a little old train that chug chug chugs from Pinhao (actually it starts further west, in Regua I believe) to the end of the line in Pocinho (about a 45 minute trip I think). Then the train personnel will get a rest break (there are two bars in Pocinho and that's about it) and soon you hop back on and go back to Pinhao. I've done this three times now and it is always a beautiful ride. Sometimes there are local sellers of homemade honey, olive oil, even wine waiting for the people riding the train, but if you're continuing on a camino it's unlikely you want to load these things in your backpack.

Most of the people who visit the Douro valley down at the river level, whether by boat or by train, go no further east than Pinhao and IMO that's a pity.

 

[Utgaard]

Rua Santa Catarina was one of my favorites (Cafe Majestic~ now completely renovated), up the street form the cafe there is another landmark building with the classic blue tiles (I forget what kind of building it is).

I second all the recommendations for taking time in Porto.

I believe CanPete is referring to the Capela das Almas de Santa Catarina. I ran into it while doing some unintentional sightseeing (being lost, but enjoying it).

 

[CanPete]

I second all the recommendations for taking time in Porto.

I believe CanPete is referring to the Capela das Almas de Santa Catarina. I ran into it while doing some unintentional sightseeing (being lost, but enjoying it).

Yep , that's the one !
Looks great in this picture, thanks for posting !

Peter

 

[CanPete]

Podemos falar e escrivir no Português se você deseja

No we did not walk a rota interior yet but saw a part of it the other day (by car )
But on the subforum of the rota interior you can read the most recent updates and experiences of other people .
As far as I know not many people are walking the rota interior due to this caminho untill now is not very wellknown .
My wife and I walked the central route from Lisbon and the coastal from Viana da Castelo.
This year we will walk a part of the camino Francès and after that we will come to Portugal , camping. We love Portugal.

Met vriendelijke groeten uit Holland ,klompenland

Vriendelijke groeten terug, vanuit British Columbia, Canada !
Have a great Camino (Caminho) this year; I'll be on the Via de la Plata from Seville to Santiago, planning on a surprise visit to my Portuguese family for a couple of days after I'm done . . .

Ate-logo

Peter

 

[Isca-camigo]

Fingers over eyes to Lisbon lovers but I prefer Porto. I like my cities with a mixture of historic grandeur, narrow backstreets and a little edge to it and Porto has these. At night it can be quite stunning from certain viewpoints.

 

[nc6000]

Your question intrigued me -- according to Wikipedia, the pastel de nata originated at the San Jeronimos monastery in Belem outside Lisbon in the 18th century, and it was spread from there to Macao and then to China.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastel_de_nata

What I found most interesting is the answer to the question I've always had about why are so many of these convent/monastery treats based in egg yolks. Apparently back in the 18th century, egg whites were used to put starch in clothing (particularly nuns' habits) and so there were lots of egg yolks sitting around.

Apparently egg whites were also used making wine which also left a lot of egg yolks to be used up. This was the case in Spain and explains a lot of their desserts\sweets. I'm guessing it was also the case in Portugal.

http://www.thekitchn.com/did-you-know-the-tradition-and-use-of-eggs-in-winemaking-176695

Red wine and lovely treats....go eggs!

 

[christy wharton]

thanks for this link Laurie - have missed it in NYT -
and Yes - Si ! would encourage everyone to spend extra time in Porto - really has a vibrant feel and is imbued with also times past and much glory and grit.
Porto is Portugal second largest city -- and there are not many european cities of that size who have been spared dropped bombs and other war-induced mayhem of the last century -
and I really can recommend the visit @ Caterdrale Se' AND the cloister visit .... and yes , the Sao Bento station features amazing large tiles 'murals' - such beauty.
shall be back for sure ...
Obrigado again for this link ...

I was delighted to find some "fado" (poruguese folk music) bars about the centro and just off Caterina. The atmosphere, music and song delivery was full on and wonderful - no amplification needed. They also have a unique retro Macdonalds with lovely terrace in Porto and lovely little shops, a great market and galleries all in walking distance.

 

[Cecy]

Ok, cant wait to spend a day in porto in Sept, all these posts describing so many places to go see...i only have a day so i will see as much as i can. ..i plan on staying in the poets inn, is that a good location for me to be able to venture out?

 

[Utgaard]

..i plan on staying in the poets inn, is that a good location for me to be able to venture out?

The Poet's Inn looks to be about ten minutes walk to the Sao Bento train station or Porto Cathedral, 15 to the famous bridge over the Douro, and five minutes to the Livaria Lello bookstore. You may want to make a list of what sites you want to see, then put them into Google Maps and see what is close. The subway also is pretty straight forward to use if you want to venture out from the city center. The tiled church is by the Bolhao subway station and only about a 15 minute walk from where you are staying.

 

[amsimoes]

Porto is a city well worth a sustained visit, but if you are walking through, I'd suggest that you at least take a rest day here. Porto has beautiful "bones", layered over by years of inadequate funds to maintain its beauty, and the result is a kind of gritty beauty that leaves most of us in awe.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...urs-in-porto-portugal.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0

Or in Douro Valley (how does the Peregrina 2000) (Portuguese Interior Route)
http://nelsoncarvalheiro.com/sao-joao-da-pesqueira-the-heart-of-the-douro-valley/

 

[peregrina2000]

Porto is on a roll, everyone wants to tell you about it!

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel...s-latin-city-with-northern-soul-a6855726.html

 

[High Endeavours]

This is very helpful! Plan to stop for a couple of rest days after the Caminos Invierno and Dos Faros on our way to Coimbra to begin the Portuguese. Then will have the pleasure of a rest day to take it all in again. Sounds like there is lots to see and I have heard that it is a beautiful city for photography...much like Lisbon