Spain looking to extend UK passport holder stays beyond 90 days.

[Former member 102963]

Strictly non-political but lots of media coverage today about Spain wanting UK folks to be able to stay beyond 90/180 days etc. Been bubbling for a while but the Tourism Secretary made some comments in a recent interview! One to watch!

 

[dick bird]

From Spain's point of view, a bit of a no-brainer. The longer they stay, the more they spend. Be interesting to see whether it will apply to visitors from other wealthy non-Schengen countries and if it can be used to allow more time in the other Schengen countries: Spain isn't the only country in Schengen with a large tourist industry, so who knows? Where was this media coverage, by the way?

 

[Former member 102963]

Yes agreed. It’s across loads of publications, all picking up on same quotes. Just Google ‘Spain UK 90 days’ or similar.

It’s unclear the context of the quotes as to whether it was a response to a question or not.

From Spain's point of view, a bit of a no-brainer. The longer they stay, the more they spend. Be interesting to see whether it will apply to visitors from other wealthy non-Schengen countries and if it can be used to allow more time in the other Schengen countries: Spain isn't the only country in Schengen with a large tourist industry, so who knows? Where was this media coverage, by the way

 

[Kathor1]

I would not hold my breath.

The current flurry of articles in UK media is based on the fact that UK news outlet I News, on November 8, 2022, published an interview-based article with Spanish Tourism Secretary Fernando Valdés. The minister was in London for the World Travel Market 2022 event. The article is behind a paywall. The usually well informed Spanish website The Local ES provides some background:

“It is in Spain’s interest to get rid of the rule” and “lobby to convince [the EU] we can try to work an exception with them,” he is quoted as saying. Brexit news outlets the Daily Express and GB News have jumped on the story with headlines such as “Desperate Spain begs EU…”, which evidences how the ‘they need us more than them’ rhetoric is still alive for some.​

​

I've quoted this not in order to start a discussion but to provide some context because some of the news media who have picked this up from other news media make it sound as if such a change of rules is imminent and it will be a unilateral measure taken by Spain. This is not the case.

According to The Local ES, some areas of Spain such as Valencia have been lobbying the national Spanish government since last year to exempt Britons from the 90-day rule, mainly because of the numerous Britons who own holiday homes there or who want to stay for up to 6 months in one go (especially pensioners of all nationalities btw). The Local ES article also addresses bilateral agreements. Spain has old bilateral agreements with 19 non-EU countries that had been signed in the 1960s or earlier but the UK is not among them and it is legally not possible to conclude new bilateral agreements of this sort.

As Spain’s Tourism Secretary pointed out regarding changing the rules “we cannot do so unilaterally” and “the solution must come from them”, meaning the EU.​

​

In my albeit limited experience, the law-making mills of the EU grind very very slowly.

 

[Former member 102963]

Yes agree with all that. Certainly not imminent and of course positioned differently by different news outlets. Interesting though as part of the broader European picture!

 

[Kathor1]

Certainly not imminent

Unless I am mistaken, there is no indication that the current Spanish government as such has even started preliminary footwork at EU level to work for change of the 90 days rule for British tourists.

What national ministers say and do in Brussels is sometimes diametrically opposite to what they say and do in their own capitals with a view to their domestic audience and voters. In any case, this does not belong to the portfolio of Ministers for Tourism. The Ministers for Home Affairs and Justice deal with this topic. All 27 of them together.

 

[Kathor1]

This was not all of what the Spanish minister for tourism said at the London tourism fair. He also said this:

Valdés also indicated that some European markets are beginning to see significant growth, up to 60%, in long-stay bookings in Spain, for trips of more than 22 days, compared to 2019. A phenomenon that may be partly due to the increase in energy costs forecast for this winter, which could be motivating some people to decide to spend long stays in warmer climates.​

​

I must admit that even I have been tentatively, but not very seriously, thinking about such a longer stay in Spain for myself and for the same reason.

 

[Former member 102963]

This was not all of what the Spanish minister for tourism said at the London tourism fair. He also said this:

Valdés also indicated that some European markets are beginning to see significant growth, up to 60%, in long-stay bookings in Spain, for trips of more than 22 days, compared to 2019. A phenomenon that may be partly due to the increase in energy costs forecast for this winter, which could be motivating some people to decide to spend long stays in warmer climates.​

​

I must admit that even I have been tentatively, but not very seriously, thinking about such a longer stay in Spain for myself and for the same reason.

Yes interesting point and development! Makes spending the European winter in parts of Spain very attractive!

Be even more UK and German folks heading to the Canary Islands than normal!

 

[Kathor1]

Be even more UK and German folks heading to the Canary Islands than normal!

With some luck, I've now actually managed to read the i News acticle with the interview with Spanish tourism minister Fernando Valdés. Quote:

Mr Valdés said Spanish government data showed long stays of more than three weeks had risen sharply among Swiss and German tourists compared with 2019, the last year before the pandemic. He said the number of Swiss tourists had risen 20 per cent, and the figure was 60 per cent among German holidaymakers. “Maybe there are more variables which affect this matter, but I think that in some countries some senior populations are trying to find some European destinations where they can spend a long stay in the context of increasing energy costs.​

​

He addresses numerous issues in the interview: drinking too much alcohol during a holiday in Spain and there he mentions young British tourists (although there are of course other young nationals, too, in this context); a desire for "more upmarket tourism"; wanting to avoid both overcrowding in cities like Barcelona and Palma de Mallorca, and “tourism phobia”. Also:

“New generations are starting to travel with a new mindset than their parents or grandparents. They want to be part of the destination. It is something that we want to attract.”​

​

There is no explicit mention of the Camino de Santiago or pilgrimage travel in general.

 

[Former member 102963]

All interesting stuff. Know they are keen to attract digital nomads too, I guess a new ‘boom group’ whose growth Covid has speeded up!

 

[MickMac]

From Spain's point of view, a bit of a no-brainer. The longer they stay, the more they spend. Be interesting to see whether it will apply to visitors from other wealthy non-Schengen countries and if it can be used to allow more time in the other Schengen countries: Spain isn't the only country in Schengen with a large tourist industry, so who knows? Where was this media coverage, by the way?

Not going to happen would breach EU law.

 

[MickMac]

I would not hold my breath.

The current flurry of articles in UK media is based on the fact that UK news outlet I News, on November 8, 2022, published an interview-based article with Spanish Tourism Secretary Fernando Valdés. The minister was in London for the World Travel Market 2022 event. The article is behind a paywall. The usually well informed Spanish website The Local ES provides some background:

“It is in Spain’s interest to get rid of the rule” and “lobby to convince [the EU] we can try to work an exception with them,” he is quoted as saying. Brexit news outlets the Daily Express and GB News have jumped on the story with headlines such as “Desperate Spain begs EU…”, which evidences how the ‘they need us more than them’ rhetoric is still alive for some.​

​

I've quoted this not in order to start a discussion but to provide some context because some of the news media who have picked this up from other news media make it sound as if such a change of rules is imminent and it will be a unilateral measure taken by Spain. This is not the case.

According to The Local ES, some areas of Spain such as Valencia have been lobbying the national Spanish government since last year to exempt Britons from the 90-day rule, mainly because of the numerous Britons who own holiday homes there or who want to stay for up to 6 months in one go (especially pensioners of all nationalities btw). The Local ES article also addresses bilateral agreements. Spain has old bilateral agreements with 19 non-EU countries that had been signed in the 1960s or earlier but the UK is not among them and it is legally not possible to conclude new bilateral agreements of this sort.

As Spain’s Tourism Secretary pointed out regarding changing the rules “we cannot do so unilaterally” and “the solution must come from them”, meaning the EU.​

​

In my albeit limited experience, the law-making mills of the EU grind very very slowly.

 

[MickMac]

Nice factual report Kathar1na no substance against EU law maybe Britain will enter a reciprocal arrangement with EU might have a chance.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

All interesting stuff. Know they are keen to attract digital nomads too, I guess a new ‘boom group’ whose growth Covid has speeded up!

One issue that makes Spain less attractive than some other destinations (especially for older Brits) is the requirement not only for medical insurance, but also for a certificate of good health.

 

[Bristle Boy]

Nice factual report Kathar1na no substance against EU law maybe Britain will enter a reciprocal arrangement with EU might have a chance.

There is no need for the UK to enter a reciprocal agreement with the EU.
A visitor from the EU to the UK is usually/normally 180 days.

Visiting the UK as an EU, EEA or Swiss citizen

What you need to know about crossing the UK border and visiting the UK.

www.gov.uk

 

[Kathor1]

they are keen to attract digital nomads too

I think that the Spanish law about start-ups and digital nomads will enter into force some time next year and all the details about the conditions for the visa attached to it are not yet known. And like other EU countries, Spain has a number of other longer term visa options: their Golden Visa and their Non Lucrative Visa which could certainly be combined with shorter or longer term Camino walking.

Somewhat surprisingly, as mentioned in the iNews interview article, Spain and the UK Government are also negotiating over letting tourism workers stay longer than 90 days in Spain during the holiday season, Mr Valdés said. This would not need the approval of Brussels and could come through a bilateral deal.

Of course, these people are meant to work and not walk during their time in Spain.

 

[Sue127]

One issue that makes Spain less attractive than some other destinations (especially for older Brits) is the requirement not only for medical insurance, but also for a certificate of good health.

Surely that understandable if you haven't paid into their tax and so healthcare system?

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Surely that understandable if you haven't paid into their tax and so healthcare system?

I have 3 EU residence permits. They all required health insurance. Spain is the only one (so far) that has asked for a certificate of health.

Yes, it's understandable, but I know people who own property in Spain and because they have long-term health problems they are now limited to the 90-day rule. These people have no intention of relying on the Spanish health system. They travel to the UK for treatment on the NHS.

 

[Sue127]

I have 3 EU residence permits. They all required health insurance. Spain is the only one (so far) that has asked for a certificate of health.

Yes, it's understandable, but I know people who own property in Spain and because they have long-term health problems they are now limited to the 90-day rule. These people have no intention of relying on the Spanish health system. They travel to the UK for treatment on the NHS.

I see the difference and agree that it certainly complicates the issue. It is certainly another issue of the dreaded 'B' where human issues were not taken into consideration. I live in France and certainly know of several retired couples who have sold up, because it makes a nonsense of having a holiday home if you cannot use it when you need/want to.

 

[Snowflake5090]

Strictly non-political but lots of media coverage today about Spain wanting UK folks to be able to stay beyond 90/180 days etc. Been bubbling for a while but the Tourism Secretary made some comments in a recent interview! One to watch!

I really hope so

 

[Kathor1]

maybe Britain will enter a reciprocal arrangement with EU might have a chance.

You are quite right. They call it mobility arrangements. It is mentioned in the 2020 Declaration about the Future Relationship: the Parties should establish mobility arrangements [..]. The mobility arrangements will be based on non-discrimination [...] and full reciprocity. I've not seen, however, that anything of the sort is in the make. They have other fish to fry at the moment ...

 

[geraldkelly]

One thing Spain could do is make it easier for non-EU citizens to get a longer stay visa. These are already available but I understand you would have to produce some kind of justification, taking care of an elderly parent, or something like that.

However I don't think concessions like this will happen until other issues are resolved, notably for Spain the status of Gibraltar.

 

[Corned Beef]

If you want to travel from Clones, Ireland (EU) to Cavan, Ireland (EU) on the N54/A3, you cross in and out of the EU 4 times on a 40 minute journey. Lucky there is a Common Travel Area as you'd need to get your passport stamped quite a few times.

 

[cardifflad52]

Strictly non-political but lots of media coverage today about Spain wanting UK folks to be able to stay beyond 90/180 days etc. Been bubbling for a while but the Tourism Secretary made some comments in a recent interview! One to watch!

That be mainly for those who have either a second home or a holiday let in Spain where they escape our winter and spend half of the year in Spain , someone I know has said at the present time they only can stay for 3 months unless they extend it by coming home first then go back for another 3 months , I doubt that it has anything to do with anyone on the camino though .

 

[Pathfinder075]

I was musing over a similar question a week back. How to walk Via Francigena and then head back to Santiago in the same journey. I suspect it might take around 6-7 months. Even walking back to back 20 mile days, its over 4 months assuming perfect conditions. Being able to stay longer in Spain would take a small thorn out it.

Still I don't see it happening for a while, either my journey or the 180 day Spanish visa.

 

[Pathfinder075]

someone I know has said at the present time they only can stay for 3 months unless they extend it by coming home first then go back for another 3 months

For my journey this was my way out. Walk to Rome, back to Bilbao, hop the ferry back to the UK and then come back on the next ferry a couple of days later and do the Spanish part.

I wonder if you can cross into Gibraltar to effect the same reset.

 

[cardifflad52]

For my journey this was my way out. Walk to Rome, back to Bilbao, hop the ferry back to the UK and then come back on the next ferry a couple of days later and do the Spanish part.

I wonder if you can cross into Gibraltar to effect the

 

[cardifflad52]

Strictly non-political but lots of media coverage today about Spain wanting UK folks to be able to stay beyond 90/180 days etc. Been bubbling for a while but the Tourism Secretary made some comments in a recent interview! One to watch!

The current rules are that you can come for example from the uk for up to 90 days every 180 days before returning ..however if you stay for the entire 90 days then you have to wait a further 90 days before returning for another 90 days .hope this makes sense so in a nutshell you can only stay for 6 months in any one year .

 

[C clearly]

The current rules are that you can come for example from the uk for up to 90 days every 180 days before returning ..however if you stay for the entire 90 days then you have to wait a further 90 days before returning for another 90 days .hope this makes sense so in a nutshell you can only stay for 6 months in any one year .

The 90-day count is a rolling count. It does not work in 90-day chunks that must be re-set.

You can come and go in many combinations. On any given day, you must be able to count backwards 180 days, and not have been in the Schengen region for more than 90 of those days.

 

[Skippy@2022]

For my journey this was my way out. Walk to Rome, back to Bilbao, hop the ferry back to the UK and then come back on the next ferry a couple of days later and do the Spanish part.

I wonder if you can cross into Gibraltar to effect the same reset.

It doesn't reset the 90 days just by leaving the country, if you have done the full 90 days then you have to leave for 90 days before you come back

 

[peregrina2000]

Not quite accurate. The 90-day count is a rolling count. It does not work in 90-day chunks that must be re-set.

if you have done the full 90 days then you have to leave for 90 days before you come back

Aren’t these two statements inconsistent? I confess that since I have an Irish passport, I am lucky not to have to deal wtih this issue, and so I tend to ignore the discussions, but I think it is very confusing.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

What you can't do is spend 90 days, leave the country and immediately re-enter and spend another 90 days. You are permitted to spend 90 days in any 180-day period.

So, actually I think the first statement is wrong. Because if you have spent the last 90 days in the Schengen zone you will still have those as part of your 180 days for another 90 day (ie you have to leave for 90 days before you return).

 

[Tincatinker]

My Gran always told me to "ask the horse"...

For those with a spare evening with nothing on the telly and no money for beer: https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/index_en

 

[C clearly]

[I have edited several of my posts, which gave inaccurate examples, and also deleted some quotes of those posts. I think the following remains correct.]

if you are talking about multiple entries and exits, for periods less than 90 days, you can do it in many many combinations - in and out, in and out, for varying lengths of time - as long as you can count backwards on any day and of the past 180 days you have not been in Spain for more than 90 of those days.

It is confusing to describe, but actually quite simple to calculate.

1. Start on whatever day you plan to leave the Schengen region after a visit
2. Count back 180 days, noting the days when you were (or would be) in a Schengen country
3. When you reach 180 days back, look to see if your days in-Schengen have reached 90?
4. If you are at or near 90, I suggest that you go to an official calculator to make sure you have counted the first and last days correctly! Or that you haven't missed a Feb 29, for example!

If this seems too complicated, go to this EU site for a calculator, but honestly I find it harder than counting. There are other calculators but they are not on official EU websites..

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Alternatively you can start collecting residence permits. I reckon in another 10 years I'll have the full set!

 

[cardifflad52]

Slap me on the wrist if I am wrong lol ..if I decide to go to Spain on 1st December for the full 90 days that's fine , however on return to the UK I cannot decide after a week or two that I want to return for another 90 days as I would have to wait until 1st June meaning I can only be in Spain for 180 days or 6 months of anyone year till they change the ruling

 

[Molly Cassidy]

If you have spent a full 90 days in Spain you need to leave the Schengen zone for a full 90 days before you return, because all those 90 days will be in the 180-day window. Even after a week or 2 you will not be able to return because you will still have 90 days already on the calendar.

 

[C clearly]

If you have spent a full 90 days in Spain you need to leave the Schengen zone for a full 90 days before you return, because all those 90 days will be in the 180-day window. Even after a week or 2 you will not be able to return because you will still have 90 days already on the calendar.

You are absolutely right! I am going to edit my posts and remove some of the quotes of my posts.

The best advice is to get out the calendar and start counting backwards!