Smelly hipsters ruining the Camino

[long trails]

Couldn't see this posted elsewhere on the forum?
https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/07/28/inenglish/1501234923_239922.html
https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/07/28/inenglish/1501234923_239922.html

I was rather surprised to see this article from El Pais regarding the Camino. Such claims as "Many pilgrims are non-believers and engage in sexual relations along the way, undermining Catholic morality" particularly stood out! Heck, I didn't see any of this lol!

Apparently Longrono locals were protesting outside the Municipal Albergue in the city with banners such as 'pilgrims go home'!

I wonder if anyone who was walking in July witnessed any of this?

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

They are also protesting in other main towns around Spain against the growing number of tourists .

Wish you well , Peter .

 

[natefaith]

Here's a thread from earlier in July: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/logroño-protest.49524/#post-538028

 

[David]

Interesting - funny of course - good joke - but more of a diverted response to the appallingly high unemployment and terrible economy I think .... no matter how simply we pilgrims travel we must look so rich to the unemployed, especially the young ones - that we are there at all is proof of wealth.

mind you, their argument is faulty .. at one point pilgrims are accused of pushing up prices but at another point the complaint is that pilgrims eat as cheaply as possible so miss all the wonderful food and wine - so if they aren't buying it why would the prices go up? Faulty logic there. They also seem to believe that refugios in Logrono are all free!

The 'gentrification' of poor areas has been going on for decades .... prices become too high and people with money to buy move into the poorer areas and prices there go up - then young residents cannot afford to live there - sad, but is how the world is, I can't see how one can change it - do you?

 

[Aurigny]

To judge from the comments on their Facebook page, the trio of masked heroes who composed the sum total of those in attendance at this "protest" (and, no doubt, set up the website) speak only for themselves. As one gentleman remarked, "I don't know if this is a joke or if it's serious."

They look to be student-aged, so it could very well be the former.

 

[David]

Just the three young masked lads .... I think it is a joke - almost like street theatre .. such as No Smiling Day over here (Natural Theatre company, Bath)

 

[Aurigny]

That's my reading too. The hashtag on one of their posters -- #MakeLogroñoLogroñoeseAgain -- which has, ah, let's say a certain evocation these days, would seem to be a dead giveaway.

Excellent trolling on their part, though.

 

[Felipe]

Yes, it was discussed before in the forum.
This could be a kind of prank, but there is currently a background or general resentment in Spain, especially amongst young people that feel that they are denied the chances their parents had. We can think about many reasons (not the place to discuss them here...) but "strangers" (be migrants or "tourists") are always an easy target.
I am not especially worried about the Camino -it is a matter of faith for many people in Spain, a source of pride, a marker of national identity, and in many places the economic spillover is significant (just imagine Sarria without pilgrims). But being polite, engaging in small talk, showing interest for local history and culture, being respectful at Mass, is always advisable.

 

[jay quintero]

They are also protesting in other main towns around Spain against the growing number of tourists .

Wish you well , Peter .

Would they rather have migrants or pilgrims? ... this post particularly concerns me because when I go on my Camino next year, I might be one of those "smelly pilgrims" ... I'm on a high protein diet (pre diabetic and watching my carbohydrate intake) ... on the many sedate couch potato DVD watching days, soap here at home doesn't always bubble (I have to soap and rinse twice) ... I must have running hot water (I'm very spoiled) ... I don't think I'll be a good commercial pilgrim as I don't plan on spending oddles of money (I'm wary of "tourist traps"). Went backpacking 30 years ago in Malaga, there were more than a few back then and I seem to have encountered them all ... those tourist traps ruined the good memories (I was a very angry, bitter and cheap person back then - I'm less angry and bitter today, but still very cheap).

 

[Kitsambler]

...there is currently a background or general resentment in Spain, especially amongst young people that feel that they are denied the chances their parents had.

Whenever times are bad, there is scapegoating. And the vulnerable "other" is always a cheap, easy target.

In this case it's a shame, because the pilgrim dollar feeds the tourism industry - an industry that creates jobs and serves as an economic engine.

 

[jay quintero]

Interesting - funny of course - good joke - but more of a diverted response to the appallingly high unemployment and terrible economy I think .... no matter how simply we pilgrims travel we must look so rich to the unemployed, especially the young ones - that we are there at all is proof of wealth.

mind you, their argument is faulty .. at one point pilgrims are accused of pushing up prices but at another point the complaint is that pilgrims eat as cheaply as possible so miss all the wonderful food and wine - so if they aren't buying it why would the prices go up? Faulty logic there. They also seem to believe that refugios in Logrono are all free!

The 'gentrification' of poor areas has been going on for decades .... prices become too high and people with money to buy move into the poorer areas and prices there go up - then young residents cannot afford to live there - sad, but is how the world is, I can't see how one can change it - do you?

Welcome to the "New World Order" ... where politicians tax the heck out of the middle class but still wants everybody poor and on welfare ... I firmly believe that pilgrims are "envied" (lacking a better word) because pilgrims have the "luxury of time" ... locals perhaps don't realize the personal losses or voids in each true pilgrim's soul ... wealth is relative ... if this pilgrimage were in Switzerland, then the locals wouldn't be thinking that ...

Prices go up because of supply and demand - exhausted travelers will always pay a premium for everything ... the key is not to put yourself in a position of economic blackmail ... I plan to bring my own "coffee gear" and hence not pay for non-refill expensive coffee ... hopefully, I won't be bothered during my coffee ceremony by the side of the road ... my coffee ritual mimics the Japanese tea ceremony ...

I don't know what the fuss is all about ... this route has had a captive pilgrim audience for the past 1200 years ... maybe people who own property on the route want a subsidy from the Spanish government?

 

[Pathfinder075]

I met a guy last year at a campsite near Entrago. He had lost his job, had a car and very little else. I said to him to get himself over to the UK by any means possible as their is tons of easy warehouse and logistics work that pays reasonable rates and they are forever looking for people to do it. Whether he did I don't know. But if I lived in a country with high unemployment, I would move to somewhere with better chances of gaining employment. I have several Polish friends that upped and left Poland and moved around Europe grabbing work where they could, most finally settled in the UK. They amusingly spend their money buying property in Poland, but I guess this covers them if the whole Brexit thing goes south and they all have to go back (it wont, you pay your taxes, you are a valued member of society. You sponge off the benefits system, you get deported).

As for non-believers on pilgrim routes. How do you tell them apart? Also if you walk 20 miles in temperatures around 20-30C you are going to smell. I really don't get it. Do they want some money coming into their economy or not? If they want to remove themselves from the Camino, its really easy to do. From what I've seen on my walk last year, the original route didn't go through half these towns and cities, it went around them. So if Logrono doesn't want pilgrims, then it simply needs to change the Camino signs at the entrance and route the pilgrims around it. But of course then the economy goes to hell and they will protest about being poor, or something else.

Saying that, half of Britain is also essentially doing this as well. Their are a lot of people fearing the country is losing its identity and wanting to distance themselves from those causing it. The difference is our course is now set for segregation. Only time will tell what the repercussions will be for us and the EU/World in general.

 

[David]

Those three lads could set up two routes that separate at the entrance to Logroño .. one going through and one going round, with a barrier at that point - each pilgrim would be asked a Catholic catechism question and if they answered it correctly would be allowed in on the Catholic Camino into Logrono and if they failed it would be sent along the new Heathen Camino that goes round it - oh, and those going through would have to swim through a medicated sheep bath and also sign a document stating that they wouldn't spend more than three Euros whilst in the city to keep prices down -

That should sort the 'problem' I think

 

[Aurigny]

I think that for their next demand, they should ask that the Rioja build a wall along the Ebro to keep the peregrinos out, and make Vitoria-Gasteiz pay for it. Or would that be giving the game away?

 

[Anniesantiago]

Well, honestly I feel like protesting in Oregon.
The freeways are packed, the prices are going crazy, and the charm of the city is being ruined by people with boatloads of money coming in and running out the locals.
There, I vented.

 

[jay quintero]

Whenever times are bad, there is scapegoating. And the vulnerable "other" is always a cheap, easy target.

In this case it's a shame, because the pilgrim dollar feeds the tourism industry - an industry that creates jobs and serves as an economic engine.

I don't think the profits from Pilgrim Dollars are too much ... I know it's a lot of work and maybe today's youngsters are disenchanted with less than glamorous small town work that competes with the big city white collar jobs they desire ...

the pilgrim dollars come from a target audience though - and have been for 1200 years ...

Those three lads could set up two routes that separate at the entrance to Logroño .. one going through and one going round, with a barrier at that point - each pilgrim would be asked a Catholic catechism question and if they answered it correctly would be allowed in on the Catholic Camino into Logrono and if they failed it would be sent along the new Heathen Camino that goes round it - oh, and those going through would have to swim through a medicated sheep bath and also sign a document stating that they wouldn't spend more than three Euros whilst in the city to keep prices down -

That should sort the 'problem' I think

this wouldn't be viewed too well in the United States ... segregation doesn't hold much of an appeal ... also, I would fail any Catholic Catechism question brought forth ... except maybe the seven deadly or mortal sins? Sloth is the main thing I'm guilty of ... it'll probably take me a year of walking to finish the Camino ...
But I agree with you, there should be another path which bypasses the center of town ... what did the bible passage say? if someone doesn't welcome you then shake the dust off your sandals? but before you shake off the dust off, use the bathroom and refill your water bottles first ... I hope there are mini groceries on the "outskirt" path ...

 

[jay quintero]

Well, honestly I feel like protesting in Oregon.
The freeways are packed, the prices are going crazy, and the charm of the city is being ruined by people with boatloads of money coming in and running out the locals.
There, I vented.

Sounds like real estate in Vancouver, Canada ... unsure about the roads being packed with cars over there.

I'm pretty sure that the "locals" don't buy stuff or avail of services from the same places pilgrims or tourists do ... supply and demand dictates prices (market forces?) ... location may also dictate prices, to a tired out of shape pilgrim, going to the local market a few blocks off the beaten path may not be appealing ...

 

[Trude]

Well, honestly I feel like protesting in Oregon.
The freeways are packed, the prices are going crazy, and the charm of the city is being ruined by people with boatloads of money coming in and running out the locals.
There, I vented.

Same in Sydney, no point protesting not much you can do. I love the Camino and have not encountered any smelly sinners.....

 

[Anemone del Camino]

...maybe today's youngsters are disenchanted with less than glamorous small town work that competes with the big city white collar jobs they desire ...

Last time I checked, Logrono was a rather wealthy city as it is the heart of the Spanish wine industry. I don't think the 20€ a day some let's say 1ook people bring a year makes any difference in this city's financial health. Surely pilgrims aren't the ones keeping some 50 taperias alive and well in that city.

https://ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-databases/regional-innovation-monitor/base-profile/la-rioja

http://www.itrainsinspain.com/introducing-la-rioja/guide-logrono/

 

[David]

What are the pilgrim dollars? 22o,000 pilgrims at, say, 20 euros a day?

So daily pilgrim expenditure would be about 4,400,000 - 4 million 400 thousand Euros??? Crikey!!!

 

[jay quintero]

Last time I checked, Logrono was a rather wealthy city as it is the heart of the Spanish wine industry. I don't think the 20€ a day some let's say 1ook people bring a year makes any difference in this city's financial health. Surely pilgrims aren't the ones keeping some 50 taperias alive and well in that city.

https://ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-databases/regional-innovation-monitor/base-profile/la-rioja

http://www.itrainsinspain.com/introducing-la-rioja/guide-logrono/

How much of that 20 Euros per day of the 100K people per year actually go into each of the three protester's pockets? ... maybe that's they they're protesting? ... maybe they're not part of the pie, or they want a bigger slice? or maybe they just want to ruin things for others?

if the pilgrims smell, then the tourist bureau or health department should erect a washroom/bathroom before a big town ... a medicated sheep bath is demeaning, expensive to build/operate and is asking too much ... a delousing pen is equally demeaning, cheaper to build/operate but asks the same of each pilgrim ...

 

[NicP]

This did makes me smile... I sincerely hope that it was meant in good humour. "Menos peregrinos, mas barato el vino...". It seems like somebody has too much time on their hands...

 

[jay quintero]

This did makes me smile... I sincerely hope that it was meant in good humour. "Menos peregrinos, mas barato el vino...". It seems like somebody has too much time on their hands...

Yup, I was just being cynical / sarcastic ... about the medicated sheep bath and the delousing pen ... but I was serious about the washroom/bathroom ... it's a prime concern for me as I tend to eat a lot when on a hike (I prefer to eat a lot during hikes) ... I was last in Spain 30 years ago, am hoping the food is just as great today as it was back in the mid-late 80s ...

the "menos peregrinos, mas barato el vino" statement, goes against the law of supply and demand ... the person who said it is definitely NOT a capitalist ... or at least didn't grow up in a capitalist economy ...

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Whilst some sections of the tourist industry can be annoying, I wonder what the good burghers of Logrono and other such places would do if the estimated Euro 35 million (my back of the envelope one) contributed to their economy disappeared??y!

35M€ is a drop in the bucket for such a large economy. Local uni here is putting up 3 new buildings for a total of 500MC$, or some 10 times what you estimate the Camino beings to Spain. 10 years of pilgrims for 3 buildings.

35M€ is a fraction of what many of the Rioja wineries make in a year. Add to the wine industru the metal industry, tourism due to the wine industry (have you seen the Ghery hotel that was recently built in a vineyard there?)

Here is a recent US study on the Spanish wine industry, a 3BUS$ industry, which only hiccupped one year (2009) and has had annual records since, year after year.

https://gain.fas.usda.gov/Recent GA...panish wine exports_Madrid_Spain_4-1-2016.pdf

I think we need to be a bit more realistic about what "our contribution is to Spain's economy". Peanuts. Why not rather discuss the mess we leave behind, tp and graffitis included...

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Just a few frustrated people sounding off. It's been blown way out of proportion. I have seen no indication of this happening anywhere outside Logrono, btw.

 

[jay quintero]

Just a few frustrated people sounding off. It's been blown way out of proportion. I have seen no indication of this happening anywhere outside Logrono, btw.

Most likely frustrated ... just like the protesters here in the U.S. ... question is, why are they frustrated? My family used to work in the tourist industry ... we were grateful for the daily tourists (we loved the work) ... we were ashamed of their choice of female companions though ... we were disturbed when our clients got scammed ... we were sad when the tourists dried up ...

 

[jay quintero]

Couldn't see this posted elsewhere on the forum?
https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/07/28/inenglish/1501234923_239922.html

"Many pilgrims are non-believers and engage in sexual relations along the way, undermining Catholic morality" particularly stood out! Heck, I didn't see any of this lol!

sex? WHERE? LOL ... there is a special place in hell for people such as those ... the same goes for people who talk in theaters ... (Got that line from an old sci-fi movie ... I forgot which movie) ... seriously now, there is a time and place for everything and the Camino isn't the time and place for such activities ... the same goes for scammers and pickpockets and such ... during the middle ages, wasn't robbing a pilgrim a capital offence? well, back then everything was a capital offence come to think of it ...

 

[jay quintero]

I think we need to be a bit more realistic about what "our contribution is to Spain's economy". Peanuts. Why not rather discuss the mess we leave behind, tp and graffitis included...[/QUOTE]
more bathrooms on the path? put a coin box inside each stall ... more refuse bins? I plan on bringing some garbage bags filling them up and leaving them by the side of the trail ...

 

[pilgr]

The Camino Frances has really gone 'big time' the last couple of years. So I can see how it might come into focus as a scapegoat. But calling us "non believers" and "fornicators"? First, I didn't know you had to be a card carrying Catholic in order to participate in the spirituality of the Camino! Secondly, I have not seen pilgrims sexually expressing themselves. If anything, we are too exhausted at the end of the day!

 

[HikingGeo]

Well, honestly I feel like protesting in Oregon.
The freeways are packed, the prices are going crazy, and the charm of the city is being ruined by people with boatloads of money coming in and running out the locals.
There, I vented.

And on top of that, 106 degree temperatures this week!

 

[mark connolly]

This maybe a nation-wide problem:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...s-influx/ar-AAprjpg?li=AA4Zpp&ocid=spartanntp

 

[pilgr]

Yikes! I am suppose to fly into Bilbao the next day. I hope they won't be coming for me!

 

[jay quintero]

This maybe a nation-wide problem:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...s-influx/ar-AAprjpg?li=AA4Zpp&ocid=spartanntp

for me, the pilgrim is the best kind of "tourist" ... but pilgrims aren't too popular because they traditionally don't spend a lot of money (except at restaurants and to some extent, hotels) ...

the article's headline should read something else instead of wanting (non welfare receiving) tourists to go home ... I might get into trouble if I say more ...

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Well, according to the BBC it's not just pilgrims in Logrono who are asked to get out of Spain but tourists in general and in many other cities.

An anti-tourist march is planned for later this month in San Sebastian.

In Barcelona "Despite Spain's stubbornly high unemployment, tourism was the top concern of residents (19%), ahead of unemployment (12.4%) and transport (7%). It is the first time tourism has come top in the regular poll."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40826257

 

[Stivandrer]

I´ll make it a point to hurry past Logrono, then.
This year there was the Festival of Dance and the city was absolutely packed, and futhermore I strayed to the arrows for the bicycles that took me away from most of the town centre.
I had to keep my head down and concentrate on the ground.
I promise I was only there for an hour and I tried not to smell !

 

[JabbaPapa]

According to an article I read this morning, somewhere, about these protstors throughout Spain, supposedly these are anarchists, possibly threatening violence -- which could quite obviously be a sensationalist exaggeration, but potentially worrying for pilgrims if true -- though I seriously doubt it

 

[JabbaPapa]

Well, honestly I feel like protesting in Oregon.
The freeways are packed, the prices are going crazy, and the charm of the city is being ruined by people with boatloads of money coming in and running out the locals.
There, I vented.

Where I live, wealthy foreigners have been pricing the locals out since the late 19th Century -- we don't need a protest, we need a TARDIS !!

 

[Kathor1]

I wouldn't panic yet. The group of three protesters look more like performance artists to me than members of the "black block", a term used for groups of anarchists who turn violent during demonstrations. I associate these goups mainly with groups in large urban centres in Greece, Italy and Germany, btw, not in La Rioja/Spain.

According to this informative article in Spanish, the Logrono events are something completely different, namely a "new action of the ultrarationalist collective Homo Velamine", who have the "admitted objective of introducing a dose of additional surrealism into daily current affairs" (=actualidad, there's probably a better translation).

In one photo, the pilgrims in Logrono are mixing with the performer-protesters and look happy, so either they agree wholeheartedly or don't have a clue of what's going on as they don't understand Spanish.

What does mochiflautas mean?

 

[Flatlander]

Welcome to the "New World Order"
Prices go up because of supply and demand - exhausted travelers will always pay a premium for everything ... the key is not to put yourself in a position of economic blackmail ... I plan to bring my own "coffee gear" and hence not pay for non-refill expensive coffee ... hopefully, I won't be bothered during my coffee ceremony by the side of the road ... my coffee ritual mimics the Japanese tea ceremony ...

Just on this, while I see nothing wrong with wanting to save money, just in relation to Spanish coffee..... it is delicious! It is far from expensive, and the ordering & consumption of it is a great opportunity to meet people.

I always carry my own coffee making kit when I tour on my bike. But not on the Camino. I hope you bring an extra cup to share - then it's more than just a caffeine fix.

As for the topic of the thread, I encountered quite a few, what I would call "cheap" tourists - they were only on the Way for the cheap infrastructure. Mind you, I'm sure some of the hardcore pilgrims thought the same of irreligious little old me!

And as for locals protesting, perhaps they have a point. An infrastructure has been put in place and they see some people extracting every last possible drop of value from it, while contributing as little as possible. And I'm not just talking financially. I witnessed many pilgrims bringing their expectations and standards to rural Spain and being ignorant and offensive in their demands. A situation sure to inspire resentment is some of the local community at least. Having said that, witnessing these events gave me a lot of food for thought in relation to my own behaviour.

And as for the rest of this discussion? Far too political for my tastes

Frank

 

[Houlet]

There was a Spanish documentary on http://www.rtve.es/alacarta/ a few months ago on the rowdy tourists in the centre of the city. Unfortunately I cannot remember the name and could not find a link. Based on that documentary they have more problems with stag and hen parties than a few smelly pilgrims will cause.

.......................and I suspect we are a bit less smelly than the early pilgrims.

 

[Kathor1]

Based on that documentary they have more problems with stag and hen parties than a few smelly pilgrims will cause.

Pilgrims (about 50,000-60,000 annually passing through Logrono) are indeed a minority among their tourists/visitors. From what I remember, Logrono struck me as a fairly prosperous town.

Protesting against tourists becomes boring. Protesting against pilgrims (something that Barcelona doesn't have - they've been in the news lately, also Majorca) gets a bit more attention, at least temporarily.

 

[jay quintero]

Where I live, wealthy foreigners have been pricing the locals out since the late 19th Century -- we don't need a protest, we need a TARDIS !!

Do you intend to send back those wealthy foreigners back in time? ... that just might make things worse !!

 

[jay quintero]

Pilgrims (about 50,000-60,000 annually passing through Logrono) are indeed a minority among their tourists/visitors. From what I remember, Logrono struck me as a fairly prosperous town.

Protesting against tourists becomes boring. Protesting against pilgrims (something that Barcelona doesn't have - they've been in the news lately, also Majorca) gets a bit more attention, at least temporarily.

I think there should be protesters protesting the protesters ... and protesters protesting those protesters ... non violent unmasked protests of course ... this could be the start of a major minor industry ... imagine the number of signs and T-shirts that would be sold on a given day? can't wait for that to be listed on the stock exchange ...

 

[jay quintero]

Just on this, while I see nothing wrong with wanting to save money, just in relation to Spanish coffee..... it is delicious! It is far from expensive, and the ordering & consumption of it is a great opportunity to meet people.

I always carry my own coffee making kit when I tour on my bike. But not on the Camino. I hope you bring an extra cup to share - then it's more than just a caffeine fix.

As for the topic of the thread, I encountered quite a few, what I would call "cheap" tourists - they were only on the Way for the cheap infrastructure. Mind you, I'm sure some of the hardcore pilgrims thought the same of irreligious little old me!

And as for locals protesting, perhaps they have a point. An infrastructure has been put in place and they see some people extracting every last possible drop of value from it, while contributing as little as possible. And I'm not just talking financially. I witnessed many pilgrims bringing their expectations and standards to rural Spain and being ignorant and offensive in their demands. A situation sure to inspire resentment is some of the local community at least. Having said that, witnessing these events gave me a lot of food for thought in relation to my own behaviour.

And as for the rest of this discussion? Far too political for my tastes

Frank

Coffee has always been more of a caffeine fix for me ... just like cigarettes are more than just a nicotine fix ...
someone once said, "Quantity is a quality of it's own" ... true with coffee for the most part ... but NOT true with cigarettes ... something tells me that my opinion on coffee is about to change ...

it's been my experience that "cheap tourists" are cheap because most likely they've been scammed ... my family used to be part of the tourism industry ... as for travelers bringing their expectations and standards wherever they go - it's to be expected ... it's part of the business ... if you can't stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen ... if pilgrims became more self sufficient (this is why I don't go ultralight), then they wouldn't make demands or at least keep requests to a minimum ... my mess kit will include more than the usual salsa picante and sriracha sauces, sesame oil (for Noodles), etc,etc ... I was considering packing a small aluminum pressure cooker in my backpack, but due to the worldwide security concerns, perhaps not. Maybe if I walk around with a whole leg of Jamon Serrano it would alleviate fears?

 

[jay quintero]

There was a Spanish documentary on http://www.rtve.es/alacarta/ a few months ago on the rowdy tourists in the centre of the city. Unfortunately I cannot remember the name and could not find a link. Based on that documentary they have more problems with stag and hen parties than a few smelly pilgrims will cause.

.......................and I suspect we are a bit less smelly than the early pilgrims.

I know what stag parties are, but what are hen parties? is it the female equivalent of a stag party? I think I once tried to get myself invited to one of those - I volunteered to be the guy who jumped out of the cake ...

and yes, I would like to believe we are LESS smelly than middle age pilgrims (who had no deodorant, no soap, no TP, no change of underwear, no running hot water, no sanitary wipes, no shampoo, no foot powder, no laundry detergent, no socks (disposable or otherwise)) ...

 

[Sheilajg]

It's sad but I have often wondered how the locals cope with the constant stream of pilgrims through their space day after day. I have lived in what I thought was a high tourist area and found it difficult and it was nothing compared to the Camino Frances.

 

[robertt]

The crowding and morals on camino got particularly bad during the 1200s. The warm weather brings 'em out.

 

[JabbaPapa]

It's sad but I have often wondered how the locals cope with the constant stream of pilgrims through their space day after day. I have lived in what I thought was a high tourist area and found it difficult and it was nothing compared to the Camino Frances.

LOL -- where I live is significantly worse on a daily basis -- BTW right on top of the Compostela - Rome Way, but that's insignificant compared to all the rest ...

 

[nathanael]

Couldn't see this posted elsewhere on the forum?
https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/07/28/inenglish/1501234923_239922.html

I was rather surprised to see this article from El Pais regarding the Camino. Such claims as "Many pilgrims are non-believers and engage in sexual relations along the way, undermining Catholic morality" particularly stood out! Heck, I didn't see any of this lol!

Apparently Longrono locals were protesting outside the Municipal Albergue in the city with banners such as 'pilgrims go home'!

I wonder if anyone who was walking in July witnessed any of this?

well I have seen it and the drinking is also taking over their lives at nite. I walked mostly alone and stayed in pensions or small hotels to avoid all this nonsense.

 

[jay quintero]

It's sad but I have often wondered how the locals cope with the constant stream of pilgrims through their space day after day. I have lived in what I thought was a high tourist area and found it difficult and it was nothing compared to the Camino Frances.

in this economic world ... some people would love to have their clients come to them ... but I agree, it can burn a person out ... still, you'd think they'd be used to it by now (I mean, it's been an ongoing thing since the 1200s?) ...

 

[jay quintero]

well I have seen it and the drinking is also taking over their lives at nite. I walked mostly alone and stayed in pensions or small hotels to avoid all this nonsense.

Never my kind of crowd ... can't afford to live like that ... not speaking of money but the amount of potential trouble I could get myself into ... I grew up in a bad neighborhood ...

 

[lt56ny]

Couldn't see this posted elsewhere on the forum?
https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/07/28/inenglish/1501234923_239922.html

I was rather surprised to see this article from El Pais regarding the Camino. Such claims as "Many pilgrims are non-believers and engage in sexual relations along the way, undermining Catholic morality" particularly stood out! Heck, I didn't see any of this lol!

Apparently Longrono locals were protesting outside the Municipal Albergue in the city with banners such as 'pilgrims go home'!

I wonder if anyone who was walking in July witnessed any of this?

I have lived in Mexico for 4 years. I feel in love and got remarried to a wonderful Mexican woman. Her family is fantastic and treats me like a full member of the family. I work for a Mexican company and I am the only gringo in the company.
Since I am married to a Mexican and I have really started to truly understand the culture they look at me as one of them. My family and my coworkers speak completely honestly and openly about everything in front of me. I even have to correct them when they discuss really horrible stereotypes about certain Americans and races. Mexico is such a homogeneous society. So believe me I hear unfiltered Mexico of all socio economic groups. I live in Puerto Vallarta where there are thousands of expats from the USA and Canada. They believe they are living a "Mexican" life and understand Mexican culture. Unfortunately nothing could be further from the truth. They live in Mexico for an economic benefit not a cultural one. This is not a judgement it is only a fact. I know it sounds judgemental but
Any honest expat will agree. I know this and it is because of my wife, I see the difference between how Mexicans live and how expats lived. ( I lived in Mexico City for three years where no one speaks English on the street and any Forner must live a Mexican life also).
I have written to much it is suffice to say that I have learned, and this includes myself, that making judgments about what people truly feel about what is transpiring in their own country is often completely different and the perception that outsiders half of the same situation. And even asking locals to assess the situation will not always get you a completely honest response.
I'm off for my third Camino in September on the Camino Portuguese. All these issues will be as far from my mind as possible. Thinking about these things or talking about them when you're on your Camino kind of defeats the purpose. My advice is to everyone just let things go, let your Camino unfold in front of you and have one of the greatest experiences of your life .
BUEN CAMINO TO ALL!!!!

 

[navarro]

Couldn't see this posted elsewhere on the forum?
https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/07/28/inenglish/1501234923_239922.html

I was rather surprised to see this article from El Pais regarding the Camino. Such claims as "Many pilgrims are non-believers and engage in sexual relations along the way, undermining Catholic morality" particularly stood out! Heck, I didn't see any of this lol!

Apparently Longrono locals were protesting outside the Municipal Albergue in the city with banners such as 'pilgrims go home'!

I wonder if anyone who was walking in July witnessed any of this?

First of all, I live near Logroño. I´ve never heard about tis protest untill I read the forum new last week. I tried to get some information in WWW but there are very few. I only could get the article on El País and this video.

After reading the article my oppinion is tah the article is only sensacionalism, and after watching the video my conclussion is that a "very big group of people", three people, were looking for a minute of glory.
In general Logroño and La Rioja are proud of the pass of Camino through his territory and they hope that pilgrims will pass for ever. La Rioja is Tierra Abierta Open Land to every person who likes to arrive her. WELLCOME PILGRIMS.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

in this economic world ... some people would love to have their clients come to them ... but I agree, it can burn a person out ... still, you'd think they'd be used to it by now (I mean, it's been an ongoing thing since the 1200s?) ...

It's been going on for the last 20 years or so in a way you could notice. Prior to that it had been rare to see a pilgrim of anykind for centuries. So one can see why people would be annoyed to see the face of their beloved town or village change so drastically.

 

[David and Theresa]

What are the pilgrim dollars? 22o,000 pilgrims at, say, 20 euros a day?

So daily pilgrim expenditure would be about 4,400,000 - 4 million 400 thousand Euros??? Crikey!!!

my wife and have averaged about 75 Euros a day, and I considered that a bargain, 20 a day per person, I wish

 

[Nev Sheather]

Couldn't see this posted elsewhere on the forum?
https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/07/28/inenglish/1501234923_239922.html

I was rather surprised to see this article from El Pais regarding the Camino. Such claims as "Many pilgrims are non-believers and engage in sexual relations along the way, undermining Catholic morality" particularly stood out! Heck, I didn't see any of this lol!

Apparently Longrono locals were protesting outside the Municipal Albergue in the city with banners such as 'pilgrims go home'!

I wonder if anyone who was walking in July witnessed any of this?

I was in Logrono in July, didnt see ant protesters- just tje opposite people were friendly and appreciated our Pilgrim spending!

 

[Pathfinder075]

it's also disenchanting or disheartening for people to find out that others in a similar or lower profession from another country (first world economy vs second or third world economy) earn vastly more than they do and can afford to go on vacations ...

Yes I am one of those people. I currently make a bad wage, not much beyond minimum wage. It has taken me a while to save up for my camino/holiday, which will be the only one I take all year. If someone gave me some grief over taking a holiday by working hard and saving up, I'd likely tell them to find a cliff and jump off it. Its not my fault their government couldn't organise a leisurely drinking session in a brewery. If they want to protest to someone, they should go to their capital city and protest to their elected officials. Shoving a go home pilgrim sign in a tired tourists face will lead to one of several endings depending on who you are doing to. Some may ignore, some will probably use the F word followed by off and if its someone who has had a lick of vino, well they may end up with a bloodied nose. Not everyone who walks is as good natured as the people on this forum.

 

[pilgr]

It seems one form or other of nationalism is popula

Couldn't see this posted elsewhere on the forum?
https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/07/28/inenglish/1501234923_239922.html

I was rather surprised to see this article from El Pais regarding the Camino. Such claims as "Many pilgrims are non-believers and engage in sexual relations along the way, undermining Catholic morality" particularly stood out! Heck, I didn't see any of this lol!

Apparently Longrono locals were protesting outside the Municipal Albergue in the city with banners such as 'pilgrims go home'!

I wonder if anyone who was walking in July witnessed any of this?

I am from Portland, OR, the home of the hipster. So I know what one looks like. I have never seen a hipster walk the Camino, at least not in hipster garb!

 

[scruffy1]

Good Morning and Greetings from Jerusalem. Pilgrims are not Tourists however...
Our newspapers here have articles relating to a protest in Barcelona and throught the Catalan and Basque areas of Spain against what a seen as the deterioration of normal life due to the encroachment of tourists. "Vacation" homes purchased and rented out to groups of foreigners who party all night, drink too much, and pester the local women. Prices of foodstuffs, restaurants, rents all already high driven ever upwards supposedly due to this influx of foreigners.
Pilgrims are not usually perceived as tourists, are welcomed in cities, warmly welcomed in the smaller towns and villages. Occasionally there are loud celebrations of pilgrims ending quite early since the albergue doors will soon close. I have not seen animosity but in larger towns Burgos, Leon, even Astorga,I have experienced the leery reception of solid citizens uncertain if I was a pilgrim or a vagabond.
This protest should not affect the Camino nor the pilgrim but it exists and we should be aware.

 

[Pabloke]

Not exactly.

There's a disrespectful term to name some kind of people: Perroflauta (dogflute). The stereotype says that this kind of people doesn't work, doesn't know the soap, has dogs and plays the flute to make some money.

So, the mochiflautas have a backpack instead of a dog.

 

[Pabloke]

Tourism has become a real problem in many places in Spain. Probably is not the tourists' fault, probably "somebody" decided to bet for a low-profile tourism (which gives easy money without a big investment) and now is going out of control.

Many people think that money excuses everything, "anything for money". But not everybody feels the same.

 

[jay quintero]

Good Morning and Greetings from Jerusalem. Pilgrims are not Tourists however...
Our newspapers here have articles relating to a protest in Barcelona and throught the Catalan and Basque areas of Spain against what a seen as the deterioration of normal life due to the encroachment of tourists. "Vacation" homes purchased and rented out to groups of foreigners who party all night, drink too much, and pester the local women. Prices of foodstuffs, restaurants, rents all already high driven ever upwards supposedly due to this influx of foreigners.
Pilgrims are not usually perceived as tourists, are welcomed in cities, warmly welcomed in the smaller towns and villages. Occasionally there are loud celebrations of pilgrims ending quite early since the albergue doors will soon close. I have not seen animosity but in larger towns Burgos, Leon, even Astorga,I have experienced the leery reception of solid citizens uncertain if I was a pilgrim or a vagabond.
This protest should not affect the Camino nor the pilgrim but it exists and we should be aware.


View attachment 35434

Welcome to Globalization ... btw, what does "Volem un Barri Digne" mean? is it Basque? ... everywhere I've gone, I know that (initially) locals have different prices (with regards to basic foodstuffs) ... but not when it comes to rent though ... Landlords prefer to rent out to higher paying foreigners ... can the landlords be blamed? I lived in Spain 30 years ago, before they joined the EU (haven't been back there since), I'm told the changes have been great (there is now a Burger King right outside the Mezquita in Cordoba).

And being thought of a vagabond has happened to me ... more than once (different countries) ... perhaps it's my choice of wardrobe ... plus, I should shave more often (my face, not my legs - ewww) ...

I plan to bring this grilled cheese sandwich maker/toaster on my camino and attach it onto my backpack ... it'll probably be donated to some albergue along the way ... got it for 5.99 USDs (+tax) at a thrift store. it's literally and figuratively a "clam shell toaster" ...

 

[jay quintero]

Not exactly.

There's a disrespectful term to name some kind of people: Perroflauta (dogflute). The stereotype says that this kind of people doesn't work, doesn't know the soap, has dogs and plays the flute to make some money.

So, the mochiflautas have a backpack instead of a dog.

In the days of old, pilgrims characteristically ran out of funds ... before credit and debit cards, before bank transfers and such ... someone should make a reenactment documentary on how that pilgrimages on the Camino were like during certain eras ... (example: in the 1950s. 1960s, in the middle ages?) ... today, pilgrims use high tech ultralight gear that is (to me at least) very expensive (a 300 USD sleeping bag?). I have many questions like: What did the pilgrims of old eat? (probably whatever was there), Where did they sleep? (probably wherever they could. Church courtyards?). How long did it take? (I don't think they did 20 Km/day) ...

I personally think that in this day and age of comfort and convenience, pilgrims should smile more often ...

 

[jay quintero]

It seems one form or other of nationalism is popula


I am from Portland, OR, the home of the hipster. So I know what one looks like. I have never seen a hipster walk the Camino, at least not in hipster garb!

What is "hipster garb"? does that mean someone who sags their pants? we had a guy like that at school once ... he quickly learned not to wear his pants like that after an earthquake drill ( he tripped and fell down more than once) ...

 

[pilgr]

In the days of old, pilgrims characteristically ran out of funds ... before credit and debit cards, before bank transfers and such ... someone should make a reenactment documentary on how that pilgrimages on the Camino were like during certain eras ... (example: in the 1950s. 1960s, in the middle ages?) ... today, pilgrims use high tech ultralight gear that is (to me at least) very expensive (a 300 USD sleeping bag?). I have many questions like: What did the pilgrims of old eat? (probably whatever was there), Where did they sleep? (probably wherever they could. Church courtyards?). How long did it take? (I don't think they did 20 Km/day) ...

I personally think that in this day and age of comfort and convenience, pilgrims should smile more often ...

Much like the voyage of the Kon-tiki, I am all for a reenactment approach to doing the Camino! Would we wear loin cloths and have several gourds to drink our water? What would the protesters say then?

 

[pilgr]

What is "hipster garb"?

Modern day "Hipster" clothing:

 

[JabbaPapa]

In the days of old, pilgrims characteristically ran out of funds ... before credit and debit cards, before bank transfers and such ... someone should make a reenactment documentary on how that pilgrimages on the Camino were like during certain eras ... (example: in the 1950s. 1960s, in the middle ages?) ... today, pilgrims use high tech ultralight gear that is (to me at least) very expensive (a 300 USD sleeping bag?). I have many questions like: What did the pilgrims of old eat? (probably whatever was there), Where did they sleep? (probably wherever they could. Church courtyards?). How long did it take? (I don't think they did 20 Km/day) ...

I've walked in those conditions, including walking through villages where they hadn't seen a pilgrim in 40 years.

No pilgrim menus, so a lot of bread and something to eat with it, tomatoes, cheeses, ham, pâté, sausages, tinned mackerels, etc --but still nevertheless the odd meal in a cheap labourer's restaurant, and some sandwiches and pastries and so on from a bakery

As for the sleeping, a combination of outdoors, welcome in Church locations, the occasional bed offered by locals, church porches, and really wherever you can find

As for hiking speeds and duration of the pilgrimage, well pretty much the same as now

The difference between most people's experience of the Camino today and the "naked" version isn't really the "credit and debit cards, before bank transfers and such", but the Camino infrastructures as such

 

[pilgr]

As for the sleeping, a combination of outdoors

As for being a genuine peregrino, @KinkyOne slept outside on an abandoned railroad platform bench on the Camino Levante. In my eyes, that makes him the real deal peregrino! But I don't think he looked like a hipster when he did it though...

 

[jay quintero]

my wife and have averaged about 75 Euros a day, and I considered that a bargain, 20 a day per person, I wish

Do you eat out everyday? Has anyone tried buying stuff at the grocery and just getting a loaf of bread at the bakery? How much would one spend if a person did that? how much does coffee cost? I plan on bringing a small stove and a kettle not only because I'm cheap, I'm also allergic to coffee creamer/milk but also because I'm prediabetic and have to take my coffee black (no sugar, no cream), pointless I think to buy take out coffee at a cafe at premium prices ...

Hope I won't get into trouble if I brew my own coffee each morning ... I'm so cheap that I roll my own cigarettes (tobacco cigarettes, not the other kind) ... I'm concerned that my lifestyle choice might give pilgrims a bad name and "justify" the pro anti pilgrim image ...

the main thing preventing me from making my Camino is cost concerns. I live so far from Spain that once I book a flight and return flight, I'm stuck until I finish the Camino or the date of my return flight ... I can change my departure date once without a fee, but 75 or even 50 Euro/day is excessive ... am hoping for 25 at the most ... I don't plan on eating out. Opps I just noticed that the original post said 75 euro per day for two people so that's 37.5 per person (sounds much better).

 

[grayland]

A word of caution to some posters....
Please do not stray into political statements or comments concerning Spain or any other country.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Welcome to Globalization ... btw, what does "Volem un Barri Digne" mean? is it Basque?

Catalan. "We want a dignified neighbourhood".

 

[jay quintero]

Catalan. "We want a dignified neighbourhood".

Oh, thanx ...

 

[jay quintero]

As for being a genuine peregrino, @KinkyOne slept outside on an abandoned railroad platform bench on the Camino Levante. In my eyes, that makes him the real deal peregrino! But I don't think he looked like a hipster when he did it though...

Unsure if I can do that anymore - I'm too old ... I have this fear of dogs, cats, rats, squirrels messing with my stuff ... plus the solar panels on my hiking trailer might attract thieves ...

 

[jay quintero]

A word of caution to some posters....
Please do not stray into political statements or comments concerning Spain or any other country.

Sorry, an "unnamed fellow poster" and I were just commenting/starting a conversation on Camino reenactments and how the local populace would react to them. (the BBC did some very interesting WW2 civilian reenactments ages ago). I believe there is a significant difference between the pilgrims of today and the pilgrims of old ... certainly the old pilgrims were more pious ... perhaps this is why there is negative feedback in certain sectors of the local population?

I still think that the pilgrims of today should try to avoid "taxing" (lacking a better term) the local economy by bringing their own consumables as much as possible (I've never taken a Camino, might "eat" my words when I do) ... I plan to bring my own stuff (hence the hiking trailer), unsure if I can keep it up though ... I've hiked 20 Km/day in the past. I was much younger AND I didn't do it on a daily basis for two months.

 

[Stivandrer]

In the days of old, pilgrims characteristically ran out of funds ... before credit and debit cards, before bank transfers and such ... someone should make a reenactment documentary on how that pilgrimages on the Camino were like during certain eras ... (example: in the 1950s. 1960s, in the middle ages?) ... today, pilgrims use high tech ultralight gear that is (to me at least) very expensive (a 300 USD sleeping bag?). I have many questions like: What did the pilgrims of old eat? (probably whatever was there), Where did they sleep? (probably wherever they could. Church courtyards?). How long did it take? (I don't think they did 20 Km/day) ...

I personally think that in this day and age of comfort and convenience, pilgrims should smile more often ...

The old "norm" was 40 km a day ! Staggering and I have met only a couple that could do that !

 

[JabbaPapa]

The old "norm" was 40 km a day ! Staggering and I have met only a couple that could do that !

heh, that was my old norm, before the knees decided otherwise -- Paris to Santiago in 44 days.

FWIW, to get back on topic, one of our 1993 Camino family was a 90s version of a hipster ; though he had a guitar rather than a portable electronic device hehehe ... great guy, very superficial, but enormous fun to be with, and always agreeably surprising with his hidden depths. The moules marinières we made on the beach under a massive Galicia rainstorm with bottles of the lemon-bitter local Galician white were a perfect joyful finish of that particular westward journey, that finished, ooh, six times for me that Camino ? Later that evening was when I truly became a pilgrim, Deo Gratias.

 

[jay quintero]

The old "norm" was 40 km a day ! Staggering and I have met only a couple that could do that !

Yikes!! people back then I suppose were used to walking everywhere ... compared to today, people are out of shape and "spoiled" (I guess) ... I read somewhere that the Roman legions used to do 20 miles in a day with full gear ... or 20 leagues ... or something (I don't think kilometers existed as a unit of measurement back then) ... Those Roman soldiers probably smelled worse than most present day pilgrims ... where did you read that old time pilgrims did 40Km per day?

I plan to bring a hiking trailer with about 10 pounds of assorted whole grain (oats, wheat, barley, quinoa, millet, brown, rice, etc, etc ...). Unsure if its even practical (unsure if I can resupply along the route)... and unsure how long it will last ... unsure if I'll get flak for cooking it by the roadside (stealth cooking using propane) ... I've carried much less on shorter hikes (3 pounds maximum). can't really say how long it would have lasted me due to my freeloader "friends" ... 10 pounds in theory should last me 10 days ... plan to get the fruits, veggies and the "meat component" locally ... Jamon Serrano, Chorizo, etc, etc ...

Just found out that I was pre diabetic ... a higher than usual protein diet makes me smell somewhat (like ammonia?) ... the carbs needed are the unprocessed stuff ... energy levels drop if I don't have enough carbs ...

 

[Stivandrer]

in the Codex Calixtinus, I believe. Could be wrong...
Met a Frenchman from the Pyrenees that happily took 40 a day !
Read the "Great Westward Way" , here is another Longstrider !
- Now to be had in the Camino Store , in English ;

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...stward-walk-now-in-english.48778/#post-541352

 

[Bradypus]

On my first Camino my daily average was about 35km. I met quite a few people then and on later walks who were walking further and faster than me each day. With no bed race to worry about we could quite happily walk until early evening before stopping. In those circumstances 40km does not seem an unlikely figure to me.

 

[jay quintero]

Modern day "Hipster" clothing: View attachment 35457

opps ... with regards to the hipster garb ... I have: combat boots, the cigarette, electronic music, the plaid shirt, ,maybe not the hoodie, six pocket cargo pants instead of the jeans, glasses (mine are real), unkept appearance (like Aragorn?), messy hair? what about no hair? stomach full of good wholesome food not bad processed food ... the only the difference is that I normally wear a vest ...

its no wonder girls don't want to talk to me ... and this was when I don't smell bad (at least I don't think I smell that bad) ...

 

[jay quintero]

On my first Camino my daily average was about 35km. I met quite a few people then and on later walks who were walking further and faster than me each day. With no bed race to worry about we could quite happily walk until early evening before stopping. In those circumstances 40km does not seem an unlikely figure to me.

What did you smell like after? did birds drop dead after you walked by? more importantly, does doing 35Km a day give you enough time for spiritual reflection?

 

[Bradypus]

What did you smell like after? did birds drop dead after you walked by? more importantly, does doing 35Km a day give you enough time for spiritual reflection?

Most nights I managed to have a shower. No one complained. I was quite often invited to join families or groups of friends in bars and restaurants. But for at least a third of my nights I had refugios to myself Not clear what your last question means though: are you suggesting that it is not possible to walk and think at the same time? I probably reflect more deeply and completely when I am on the move

 

[JabbaPapa]

does doing 35Km a day give you enough time for spiritual reflection?

Yes.

 

[jay quintero]

Most nights I managed to have a shower. No one complained. I was quite often invited to join families or groups of friends in bars and restaurants. But for at least a third of my nights I had refugios to myself Not clear what your last question means though: are you suggesting that it is not possible to walk and think at the same time? I probably reflect more deeply and completely when I am on the move

I have trouble walking and reflecting at the same time ... perhaps it just takes getting used to ... I'm sure that God speaks, but perhaps I'm too clustered with other things ... some of us carry a heavy burden, true some of us choose to carry it ... but it's a choice made out of fear ... fear of what would happen if we don't worry or at least not show concern regarding potential problems in life ...

 

[Anemone del Camino]

... more importantly, does doing 35Km a day give you enough time for spiritual reflection?

One could argue it gives you more time for reflection than hanging out of the local watering hole with one's albergue mates starting at 2pm and into the evening.

Look up "walking meditation", just another meditation technique.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Jay, thank you for your determination to pick up litter along the Way. But PLEASE don't leave the filled bags along the trail -- there is nobody out there going to pick those up and take them away.
There are plenty of bins in the next town. If you're towing a wagon, please take the trash along to the next dumpster.
St. James will thank you.

 

[C clearly]

I have trouble walking and reflecting at the same time ...

That is interesting, as I find that walking is the best activity to encourage reflection. Maybe you don't walk far/long enough to get past the clutter. The first hour or so of walking is needed to clear the mind of other recent activities, and then the reflection can begin.

 

[jay quintero]

Jay, thank you for your determination to pick up litter along the Way. But PLEASE don't leave the filled bags along the trail -- there is nobody out there going to pick those up and take them away.
There are plenty of bins in the next town. If you're towing a wagon, please take the trash along to the next dumpster.
St. James will thank you.

Good Lord, I'm going to really look like some homeless dude ... Aren't there any garbage maintenance trucks that drive along the route? In the United States (at least in this state), volunteers pick up the trash, and another set of volunteers pick it up ... Years ago (not in this country), I used to live in this fishing village (fish farming village, rather) - and people used to put their loose garbage on my pickup bed ... I used to just lower the tailgate and drive off (not my problem) ... if it was in a garbage bag, I used to remove the said garbage bag (it was usually a used shopping bag), and then drive off - it never was there anymore when I drove by again. Garbage in that district was charged by volume and not by weight, I used to compress my garbage by using a plank of wood to compress it (I ran over the plank with my bag of rubbish under it). The garbage men hated me for doing it. No one else had a vehicle in the area so no one else could do it. hehehehe

I will do what I can, but there will be limits ... I'm so burnt out cleaning up the mess of others (literally and figuratively) ...

 

[Bradypus]

I have trouble walking and reflecting at the same time ... perhaps it just takes getting used to ...

Quite the opposite for me: the physical repetition of putting one foot in front of the other for several hours has a calming and stilling mental effect. An outlet for my normal restless state. I think it probably works in much the same way as repeating a mantra in meditation or reciting the rosary. Something physical and repetitive that occupies the body and the less easily focussed parts of my mind and frees me to think more clearly and in greater depth.

 

[C clearly]

Aren't there any garbage maintenance trucks that drive along the route?

No, there aren't. The Camino is not a linear park. You walk through many different towns, municipalities, districts and farm areas, some of which have local garbage collection and some of which probably don't. You will see large bins in towns for garbage and recycling, and that would be the best place to leave any garbage you have collected.

 

[jay quintero]

One could argue it gives you more time for reflection than hanging out of the local watering hole with one's albergue mates starting at 2pm and into the evening.

Look up "walking meditation", just another meditation technique.

I will look that up "walking meditation", thank you ... I can never reflect well with others (their "craziness" disturbs me) ... I normally reflect best alone ... like a Jedi ... 8-P

 

[jay quintero]

Quite the opposite for me: the physical repetition of putting one foot in front of the other for several hours has a calming and stilling mental effect. An outlet for my normal restless state. I think it probably works in much the same way as repeating a mantra in meditation or reciting the rosary. Something physical and repetitive that occupies the body and the less easily focussed parts of my mind and frees me to think more clearly and in greater depth.

Maybe my pack is always too heavy? the minimum I carry is 50% of my body weight (that's with cookware and sleeping gear) ... my backpack is the old Vietnam style ALICE pack ... 5 or 6 pounds empty ... I've clearly been watching too many zombie apocalypse movies ...

 

[C clearly]

Maybe my pack is always too heavy? the minimum I carry is 50% of my body weight

We are talking about walking on the Camino de Santiago. Are you seriously planning to carry over 50% of your body weight on the Camino? I ask, not because I mind if you do, but because then I will know that we are discussing completely different activities.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

We are talking about walking on the Camino de Santiago. Are you seriously planning to carry over 50% of your body weight on the Camino? I ask, not because I mind if you do, but because then I will know that we are discussing completely different activities.

Well, all those grains, beans and cookware to prepare must weigh a lot after all.

 

[jay quintero]

We are talking about walking on the Camino de Santiago. Are you seriously planning to carry over 50% of your body weight on the Camino? I ask, not because I mind if you do, but because then I will know that we are discussing completely different activities.

This is why I won't be able to carry the trash to the next town ... aside from being too tired for spiritual reflection, I will really be a smelly pilgrim ...

 

[jay quintero]

We are talking about walking on the Camino de Santiago. Are you seriously planning to carry over 50% of your body weight on the Camino? I ask, not because I mind if you do, but because then I will know that we are discussing completely different activities.

50% is a conservative estimate. I'm still working my way down ... removed some non dual purpose clothes ... already ditched the travel adapter transformer, am still bringing the travel plugs though ... ditched the iPad, will buy a cheap iPhone for skype/facetime wifi communication ... maybe I don't need too much survival gear?etc, etc, etc ... found a non bluetooth "cube speaker", tempted to bring it ...

I used to clean the roadside here with the neighbors, this stopped when we found a used syringe a few weeks ago ... since then the roadside hasn't been mowed. we can't mow the roadside grass unless the ground is clear of debris (beer cans and plastic bottles mostly-at least it used to be mostly those) ...

 

[Anemone del Camino]

...maybe I don't need too much survival gear?etc, etc, etc ... found a non bluetooth "cube speaker", tempted to bring it ...

No need for any survival gear at all. The Camino is super luxury glamping after all. As for the cube speaker, please don't. If you enjoy listening to music, or podcasts, do so with earplugs.

 

[jay quintero]

Well, all those grains, beans and cookware to prepare must weigh a lot after all.

Cookware is evolving too ... Learned how to cook rice and most recently, a meatloaf-grain dish in the pressure cooker ... I won't be bringing any beans ... might end up "smellier" than usual ... I won't bring my lightsaber flashlight ... might as well ditch my Jedi inspired bathrobe as well (it's actually a "snuggle"? a blanket with sleeves) ...

 

[nycwalking]

@jay quintero,
Spain sells rice, beans, meat, fruit and cheese, amongst other things. The camino does not take place in the middle of the unchartered Amazon. Survival of the fittest is watered down to winning a bed at days end, and that is only in the high season.
Or are you truly a Jedi in search of a new sword/lightsaber. Someone kinda like Paulo Coelho finding is sword in the O'C.

 

[C clearly]

50% is a conservative estimate.

Well, I have no advice. Buen camino!