single female safety on the Camino

[David]

Hi - the subject of safety for single females has come up quite a few times (yes, it is safe out there!) .. and I occasionally do wonder why good self defense isn't taught to girls at school .. certainly isn't included in uk schools.

This video dates from 1947 and, surely, if females were trained to this level in Judo the question of safety might never come up again. This woman looks so relaxed and confident!! (mind you, I wouldn't want his job!).
(there is a point where she takes the pistol off him where just for a moment she looks like she wants to use it on him!)

I suppose my point is that as we cannot get rid of the minority of male predators in the world women out there should perhaps take the opportunity to learn self defense and I am posting this video to encourage that

 

[grayland]

If you dress like that guy...you can expect to get beat up by ladies...

 

[Scott Sweeney]

If it was the states everybody would be carrying guns. Maybe that's why we don't have many pilgrimages in United States.

 

[Kitsambler]

About 25 years ago, when my work had taken me to a new home in a high-crime inner city, I took a course from Model Mugging. Turns out, they are still a going concern. Fortunately I never needed to put these procedures into practice, but my confidence and comfort level while living in this challenging area increased enormously. So it was a good investment for me, in that time and place.

That being said, the Camino is certainly not a high crime area! Your biggest crime risk in the lodgings is petty theft, in the larger cities it is pickpocketing. Neither is any section of the Camino perfectly crime-free: the random sociopath is a tiny but present risk wherever we go. So increased situational awareness, and taking "common sense" precautions, should be sufficient. Some pilgrims may be more anxious in general, though - and so may need to take additional measures.

 

[Scott Sweeney]

David, don't misunderstand I am not a gun advocate.

 

[Melanie McMillan]

I would say walking sticks/poles are not only good for keeping away stray animals/dogs but stray other things? Just a thought!

 

[Donna Sch]

I have watched a LOT of judo videos over the years but hadn't seen that one before. Enjoyed that immensely!
The seoinage and variants (the throws over the back) are some of the first throws you learn in judo. My judoka daughter several years ago was annoying her cousin by jumping on his back so I taught him to grab her arm and twist his body as he was going forward...and he did a lovely throw which totally served her right. My only rule was that if he was going to do that he had to do it on grass or a soft surface. You can end up being piledriven into the ground if you get caught unawares especially if the person doing the throwing drops to their knees at the same time. And this is why many elite rugby players have learnt some judo along the way. Help you evade someone who is trying to tackle you at times and you learn to fall properly. Learning to fall is one of the most important things in judo and it is the very first thing they teach you.

Others like tomoenage (the classic drop and throw them backwards over your head throw) you tend to learn a bit later. The armbars - she likes her figure four type locks - are something you only learn from about age 13 upwards. And she does her armbars well. The juji gatame where she ends up lying on the ground controlling his body with her legs and doing an arm bar... another one you learn later. But how long do you want to remain there? And it is possible to escape that one if he turns towards her and gets his elbow on the ground. In which case as a girl you are flat on your back on the ground with a potentially heavy male on top of you. Been there, done that and it ain't fun.

The defence against the knife is something you learn in kata training which only becomes compulsory to obtain your brown belt - one belt off black belt. It's quite advanced and very choreographed at the best of times.

Now the middle school my eldest attends actually teaches judo as a compulsory elective subject. Everyone has a go at some point and it is a mixed class. My daughter has been doing judo for years so the teacher/her coach tends to use her as an enforcer when some of the boys are being absolute gits. Which even works on bigger males with little to no judo experience who are trying to do judo. The main strength from doing judo is that you learn to fall and you get fit. You learn your limits but you also learn your strengths. You get an idea of what can work for your body type. But as far as I am aware it is the only school in Australia where it is actually taught as a subject year round.

The first Sherlock movie with Robert Downey Jnr has a fantastic opening sequence that shows what you should aim for to incapacitate someone. Why do so many people try to punch others in the face when they should aim for the ears so that the pressure can blow their eardrums?

 

[grayland]

Don't mess with Donna...or her family!

 

[CaminoDebrita]

Donna is a bad *** and I would love to walk with her! Save me, Donna! "Of course, Deb. Just let me box his ears for you..."

 

[grayland]

Maybe Donna can start a "Pilgrim Protection" service through this area...kind of like the old Knights Templar. We could get her a horse and a lance..

I am envious of her accomplishments!

 

[David]

Maybe Donna can start a "Pilgrim Protection" service through this area...kind of like the old Knights Templar. We could get her a horse and a lance..

I am envious of her accomplishments!

I don't think she needs the lance

 

[Scott Sweeney]

Let's try to calm this down a little. I can't think of any time except once we ever walked alone or out of sight of other pilgrims. The past five years I have been in rural Spain and three of them on the Camino I have only once (my imagination) felt a little weird about where I was. Spain is not the states, Europe is not the states, we are told that everywhere in the world is as stupid violent as the US, its not!

Dave, maybe you should talk knee exercises, something helpful.

 

[David]

Scott - I didn't post to scare people, nor to suggest that the Camino is in any way dangerous for a female - it isn't - I posted it, 1. because it is a really cute video, and 2. to suggest that those females (and males) who are nervous could help themselves by taking a self defense class.

Nervous people are nervous, that is why they feel nervous about the Camino - my suggestion was to do with them losing their nervousness by becoming more confident in themselves, then they wouldn't be nervous about the Camino - so I think it is helpful but am quite happy for you to disagree... I look forward to reading your knee exercises post

 

[Dutch]

In general there is nothing wrong with females (amd males) to know some basic self defense techniques. This helps build confidence.

When my daughter went from primary school to middle school (at age 11-12) she had to start travelling to a big city by train and subway to get to her new school. Aprox one hour traveltime, one way. This is quite something for a little girl to do on her own. Especilally in winter when school ends at 5pm and it is already dark.

She started with Krav Maga (israeli self defence technique) the same time she started her new school. This really helped her build confidence. She has been doing this for 3 years now and i must say, she has some skills haha. Also very funny that kids in school are scared to pick on her, just because they know she has been doing this for a while now. Very funny
Of course she probably will not amount to much when a 200 pound guy (or 2) want to bother her, but.....she walks around not being scared of everything and when you wear that attitude it shows and thus it helps.

 

[mspath]

More than 60 years ago growing up near NYC as a teenager I was taught by my father the basics of self defense and urban wariness; ie how to walk, where to walk and what to do if attacked. When 25 and working in mid Manhattan these lessons saved me when attacked crossing Central Park in broad daylight. ...Since then I have travelled the world often alone and hardly paranoid but always aware.

 

[CaminoDebrita]

Let's try to calm this down a little. I can't think of any time except once we ever walked alone or out of sight of other pilgrims. The past five years I have been in rural Spain and three of them on the Camino I have only once (my imagination) felt a little weird about where I was. Spain is not the states, Europe is not the states, we are told that everywhere in the world is as stupid violent as the US, its not!

Dave, maybe you should talk knee exercises, something helpful.

Scott: I think David is tongue-in-check, and we are all just responding to his amusing video.

A side note: many of us women have either been attacked somewhere "safe"---in our own homes, for example--or have an innate wariness that is not a bad thing to possess.

I feel absolutely safe going on Camino sola, and while I'm not spending much time worrying about the dangers of attacks or thefts, I would be tonta if I did not at least maintain awareness of my surroundings.

When I counseled young women about traveling solo through SE Asia, one of the first points that I made was that different people--foreigners trying hard to fit in and be kind--were often targets. The parents of these girls were very appreciative.

Not to be too overly general, but women's experiences and lives differ greatly from men's Many of the self-defense stories on this thread concern women: there is a reason for that.

Sadly, as you've mentioned, Scott, the USA's issues with violence, attacks on others, and fear-mongering in the media can distract from the issue at hand. We do need to take care, look out for others, and be realistic.

 

[Donna Sch]

Actually my most successful technique in competition is the sode jime gatame choke and for self defence purposes it is potentially brilliant as it can be done from a variety of positions both on the ground or standing up. You just need a neck that is sticking out. It's one I think every female should know to deal with unwanted attention. If he grabs you face on, you slip an arm around the back of his neck and pretend to respond. Then you slide your other arm up but bend the elbow so your forearm sneaks across the front of his neck. Grab the sleeves (or arms) on both sides and put the choke on. It's incredibly uncomfortable and they will pass out on you if you have it on properly. Or else they let go because they are coughing so badly.

If they have no idea what you are up to, they are sitting ducks. If they do know what you are up to and stick their chin down or shoulder up, time to knee your attacker in the balls. Personally however I don't want to get so up close and personal that I am able to use it.

Maybe Donna can start a "Pilgrim Protection" service through this area...kind of like the old Knights Templar. We could get her a horse and a lance..

Don't know about a lance...will a silver reflective hiking umbrella do?

Honestly, I think I am going to incapacitate people through laughter. The umbrella, my really ugly but very sensible hat, my rather wonderful Aarn pack with its front boob pockets...and if I have to use a rain poncho it gets even funnier!

 

[David]

My most successful technique has always been speech - many years ago, when I lived in a commune in Wales, I went to the loo at three in the morning, to see the cellar door open and a guy completely mad on drugs coming out with a felling axe - I stopped, he stopped. ... I talked to him, gentled him, out logicked him, drew him to the kitchen, made him tea ... turned out that a voice had given him a mission, which was to take all the light out of the world, the light, of course, was in humans - so his intent was to kill us all in our beds - except that I was standing there in my underwear .... we stayed up all night until dawn, I moved slowly, spoke slowly, deep voice, soft, stayed out of his personal zone .. a couple of times I could have gone for the axe (I gave him toast too so he had both hands full a couple of times) but knew I was just a little too far away from him .... eventually he came down and became normal again - was a tense tense night and I know that had I attempted violence on him things could have gone very bad indeed, for all of us in the house ... but there you go!

 

[CaminoDebrita]

My most successful technique has always been speech - many years ago, when I lived in a commune in Wales, I went to the loo at three in the morning, to see the cellar door open and a guy completely mad on drugs coming out with a felling axe - I stopped, he stopped. ... I talked to him, gentled him, out logicked him, drew him to the kitchen, made him tea ... turned out that a voice had given him a mission, which was to take all the light out of the world, the light, of course, was in humans - so his intent was to kill us all in our beds - except that I was standing there in my underwear .... we stayed up all night until dawn, I moved slowly, spoke slowly, deep voice, soft, stayed out of his personal zone .. a couple of times I could have gone for the axe (I gave him toast too so he had both hands full a couple of times) but knew I was just a little too far away from him .... eventually he came down and became normal again - was a tense tense night and I know that had I attempted violence on him things could have gone very bad indeed, for all of us in the house ... but there you go!

Just "wow".

 

[David]

thing is, you don't get frightened at the time, you just do the right thing - afterwards I was a bit shakey to say the least!!!!

 

[domigee]

Just 'wow' too !

 

[zzotte]

Wow! Wow! That's what a call strong nerves, Sometimes calm in front of danger it's the best answer. Well done sir.

Zzotte