Shakedown request: February on the Camino Frances, 35 pounds current weight

[JulioCesarSalad]

Hello everyone, my cousin is planning to do the Camino de Santiago in February, starting February 1 on the Camino Frances. Could you all please help me with a shakedown? It's his first time

Most lists I've found are for summer Caminos, so there's a bunch of extra stuff for winter that I had to include

I’ve listed out his equipment below, but would appreciate help with a shakedown.
Lighterpack available here, starred items are weight estimates
Things I am unsure of are listed at the bottom:

TOTAL WEIGHT: 35 pounds
BASE WEIGHT: 21 pounds



HYGEINE
- Toothbrush
- Toothpaste
- Shampoo
- Conditioner
- Picaridin mosquito repellent (for March)
- Soap
- Detergent
- Quick dry towel

CLOTHES
- 4 pairs of wool socks
- 4 pairs of underwear
- Thermal pants, 2
- Thermal shirts, 2
- Mid-layer warm (like a Patagonia fleece)
- Vest (Columbia down vest)
- Puffy warm jacket (like a Patagonia Nanopuff)
- Gloves (not waterproof, should they be?)
- Hiking pants, 2
- Weatherproof pants, Fjallraven Vidda Pro, waxed for wind resistance
- Hiking shirts, 2
- Relaxing shirts, 2

SHOES
- Flipflops (shower)
- Tennis shoes (hanging out/relaxing shoes)
- Hiking boots

RAIN
- Rain Jacket (goretex)
- Rain pants (goretex)
- Dry bag, 5L
- A safety net for phones and electronics during a rainstorm
- Backpack rain cover


SLEEPING
- Sleeping pad (foam)
- Sleeping bag 15F (30F comfort)
- Camping pillow
- Hammock
- He wants to go camping afterward and will have to carry the hammock throughout, even if he doesn’t use it during the pilgrimage itself

ELECTRONICS
- Phone
- Phone charger
- Portable battery
- Headlamp
- Lantern


KITCHEN
- Eating bowl
- Spork


EMERGENCY KIT
- First aid kit
- Whistle
- Thermal blanket

BACKPACK
- 34L backpack

WATER
- Nalgene 1L
- Backpack hydration 3L

Medical
- Blister bandages

TOOLS
- Swiss Army knife
- Light cord
- Accessory cord
- Carabiners



THINGS I WONDER ABOUT
- 1 flannel shirt
- for warmth and to have a collared shirt for the post-hike travel
- Medium dry bag
- Is it useful? The backpack already has a rain cover

 

[Tincatinker]

Assuming your cousin isn’t planning walk in the nude they’ll be wearing a fair bit of the list not carrying it.
The stuff not-required-on-voyage, forward it to Ivar in Santiago or post-restante with Correos

 

[JulioCesarSalad]

Assuming your cousin isn’t planning walk in the nude they’ll be wearing a fair bit of the list not carrying it.
The stuff not-required-on-voyage, forward it to Ivar in Santiago or post-restante with Correos

Yup, if you follow the lighter pack link it subtracts the weight of worn clothes and water, bringing it down to 22 pounds. I would still like some feedback on what may be necessary or not

https://lighterpack.com/r/22gj61

 

[C clearly]

There's a lot there. I'm surprised it would even fit into a 34 L backpack.

For starters, a couple of specifics... It is not necessary to carry 4 L of water on the Camino Frances in winter, but that quantity can be adjusted as you go! The sleeping foam is not really needed. For waterproof gloves, consider taking a pair of dishwashing gloves that fit over you non-waterproof ones. Detergent is usually dispensed with the machines, and for handwashing, regular soap is enough.

There are 10 (TEN!) shirts on the list. Take a step back and consider the necessary clothes like this...

1. What would you wear when you leave the albergue on a typical nice day - say 5 degrees C, no rain? Remember, you will warm up a lot within 30 minutes, so items such as hat, buff/scarf, gloves can be easily removed it you get too warm (You do not want to sweat).
2. What would you add if it turns chilly or windy? Another top layer and/or the rain jacket.
3. If it rains, add the rain jacket, but don't get hot underneath.
4. Now, if you start on a really cold day, what extra do you need? Probably the thermal pants and top, plus the rain jacket and pants, plus a layer or two in between.

You don't need 10 different shirts! I think that several shirts and one thermal pants could be eliminated right away.

As a cross check, look at the collection and ask "Would I ever wear all of these at once?" What you need is a combination of layers that works for the coldest conditions, and then make sure you will still have a warm dry outfit for the evening. But the evening outfit doesn't need to be all separate dedicated items. Some of the middle layers from a cold day will serve that purpose.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Yup, if you follow the lighter pack link it subtracts the weight of worn clothes and water, bringing it down to 22 pounds. I would still like some feedback on what may be necessary or not

https://lighterpack.com/r/22gj61

I think you have too many pairs of trousers. If the weatherproof ones are really weatherproof, do you really need rainpants?

I would carry less water (maybe 2 litres) and more food.

Do you really need a headlamp and a lantern?

I'm a bit confused with the list. Some things don't have weights, presumably because you'll be wearing them, but I suppose you're not really planning to wear all your underwear at once?

 

[C clearly]

A few more items, from looking at the spreadsheet:

• The thermal pants, shirts and underwear show zero weight.
• Is the pillow really necessary? There are pillows at almost all albergues.
• Why two weatherproof pants at 589 g each? While one pair is being washed, you can wear the thermal pants plus rain pants
• What is the "accessory cord" for?
• IF you need mosquito repellent, you can buy it in Spain.
• Dry bags are useful for isolating wet and dry things, and also because a backpack rain cover may not work perfectly.
• Of course the hammock and suspension are not necessary, but you may have difficulty dissuading your cousin of this!

 

[JulioCesarSalad]

There's a lot there. I'm surprised it would even fit into a 34 L backpack.

For starters, a couple of specifics... It is not necessary to carry 4 L of water on the Camino Frances in winter, but that quantity can be adjusted as you go! The sleeping foam is not really needed. For waterproof gloves, consider taking a pair of dishwashing gloves that fit over you non-waterproof ones. Detergent is usually dispensed with the machines, and for handwashing, regular soap is enough.

There are 10 (TEN!) shirts on the list. Take a step back and consider the necessary clothes like this...

1. What would you wear when you leave the albergue on a typical nice day - say 5 degrees C, no rain? Remember, you will warm up a lot within 30 minutes, so items such as hat, buff/scarf, gloves can be easily removed it you get too warm (You do not want to sweat).
2. What would you add if it turns chilly or windy? Another top layer and/or the rain jacket.
3. If it rains, add the rain jacket, but don't get hot underneath.
4. Now, if you start on a really cold day, what extra do you need? Probably the thermal pants and top, plus the rain jacket and pants, plus a layer or two in between.

You don't need 10 different shirts! I think that several shirts and one thermal pants could be eliminated right away.

As a cross check, look at the collection and ask "Would I ever wear all of these at once?" What you need is a combination of layers that works for the coldest conditions, and then make sure you will still have a warm dry outfit for the evening. But the evening outfit doesn't need to be all separate dedicated items. Some of the middle layers from a cold day will serve that purpose.

Thanks for the feedback but where are you seeing 10 shirts? There are only 4, 2 for hiking and 2 for relaxing

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Thanks for the feedback but where are you seeing 10 shirts? There are only 4, 2 for hiking and 2 for relaxing

There are also 2 thermal shirts on your list.

 

[JulioCesarSalad]

I think you have too many pairs of trousers. If the weatherproof ones are really weatherproof, do you really need rainpants?

I would carry less water (maybe 2 litres) and more food.

Do you really need a headlamp and a lantern?

I'm a bit confused with the list. Some things don't have weights, presumably because you'll be wearing them, but I suppose you're not really planning to wear all your underwear at once?

Things without weights are because I don't know what their weight is, but since it's underwear and a vest it's nonnegotiable anyway and must be taken

Water: sure, maybe for hiking he can use the backpack reservoir and save a kilo of weight with an empty water bottle? Reservoir can also be not full

Food: does food have to be carried at all? It was my understanding that besides snacks you won't need to carry food, eating at the town you stay in each day

Lantern could be cut, yes

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Snacks are food!

 

[JulioCesarSalad]

A few more items, from looking at the spreadsheet:

• The thermal pants, shirts and underwear show zero weight.
• Is the pillow really necessary? There are pillows at almost all albergues.
• Why two weatherproof pants at 589 g each? While one pair is being washed, you can wear the thermal pants plus rain pants
• What is the "accessory cord" for?
• IF you need mosquito repellent, you can buy it in Spain.
• Dry bags are useful for isolating wet and dry things, and also because a backpack rain cover may not work perfectly.
• Of course the hammock and suspension are not necessary, but you may have difficulty dissuading your cousin of this!

0 weight are because I am not home to weigh things right now, but they are nonnegotiable so they can't be cut regardless

The pillow is necessary in this case because of the planned post-camino camping he will do

There is only one pair of weatherproof pants, and two pairs of regular, way lighter pants
Accessory cord would be to tie up clothes to dry

Dry bag: so you think a second one would be needed? What capacity? They are lightweight and very packable so not the biggest issue

 

[C clearly]

There are only 4, 2 for hiking and 2 for relaxing

Let me rephrase... there are 10 top layers. You need to think in terms of layers to protect your body, as efficinetly (weight-wise) as possible.

CLOTHES
- 4 pairs of wool socks
- 4 pairs of underwear
- Thermal pants, 2
- Thermal shirts, 2
- Mid-layer warm (like a Patagonia fleece)
- Vest (Columbia down vest)
- Puffy warm jacket (like a Patagonia Nanopuff)
- Gloves (not waterproof, should they be?)
- Hiking pants, 2
- Weatherproof pants, Fjallraven Vidda Pro, waxed for wind resistance
- Hiking shirts, 2
- Relaxing shirts, 2
RAIN
- Rain Jacket (goretex)

 

[JulioCesarSalad]

Let me rephrase... there are 10 top layers. You need to think in terms of layers to protect your body, as efficinetly (weight-wise) as possible.

CLOTHES
- 4 pairs of wool socks
- 4 pairs of underwear
- Thermal pants, 2
- Thermal shirts, 2
- Mid-layer warm (like a Patagonia fleece)
- Vest (Columbia down vest)
- Puffy warm jacket (like a Patagonia Nanopuff)
- Gloves (not waterproof, should they be?)
- Hiking pants, 2
- Weatherproof pants, Fjallraven Vidda Pro, waxed for wind resistance
- Hiking shirts, 2
- Relaxing shirts, 2
RAIN
- Rain Jacket (goretex)

Ok so lets cut one thermal shirt

It looks to me like everything else still has a use? I am thinking in layers.

Cold: Shirt, fleece, vest, puffy
layers removed as needed for cooler temps

Cold wind: Shirt, fleece, puffy, rain jacket

Shirts: one to hike, one dirty, one to relax, one to sleep

Could you explain what specifically should be cut?

 

[C clearly]

Please don't get me wrong - I don't mind if he wants to carry all of these things. It is just that you asked for opinions on how to shake this down, so I'm offering these suggestions and challenges.

There is only one pair of weatherproof pants, and two pairs of regular, way lighter pants

Why two pairs of regular pants?

Accessory cord would be to tie up clothes to dry

He will only need 30' of 8 mm rope if he washes all of those excess clothes at once!

Dry bag: so you think a second one would be needed? What capacity? They are lightweight and very packable so not the biggest issue

I am not sure what the first one is being used for, but I would take two, so that all clothes and sleeping bag can be contained.

Cold: Shirt, fleece, vest, puffy
layers removed as needed for cooler temps

Cold wind: Shirt, fleece, puffy, rain jacket

Shirts: one to hike, one dirty, one to relax, one to sleep

So you want:

1. 4 "shirts": hike, dirty, relax, sleep (I would use 1 for both relaxing and sleeping)
2. vest - What is this? You have a separate puffy
3. fleece
4. puffy
5. rain jacket

So in the clothes department, I suggest eliminating 1 regular shirt, 1 thermal shirt, 1 thermal pants, 1 weatherproof pants,1 pair underpants.

Some important items I don't see are a warm hat and scarf or buff.

 

[Anhalter]

First: I have not walked a camino in winter.
Second: My spring Camino pack is quite a bit lighter than what your cousin carries in clothes alone.
--> so please consider that i might be a bit biased

Just some thoughts:

- 15F sleeping bag might be excessive if you plan on sleeping indoors and the following camping is in a milder area than the galicean mountains
- A dry sac can double as a pillow
- the Zlite and Hammock could be sent ahead
- 2 sets of clothes can be enough. If you have shirts, thermal shirts, puffy etc, you can use a "not perfect" piece as a replacement in most situations. Like wear your rain jacket while your other stuff is drying as a shirt.
- Shirt + thermal shirt + fleece + puffy + vest + rain jacket combined is likely significantly warmer than what i was wearing skiing at -17°C last weekend... i guess you can easily ditch one or two of those.
- my first name translates to Esteban. My swim short weighs about 50g, not 200.
- thermal pants also make for a decent pyjama
- travel size toothpaste cuts a few grams, they sell the stuff in Spain
- 300g Flipflops sounds heavy
- i used a 40g (small) towel. It worked just fine.
- 226g for a first aid kit sounds like a lot. Specially if you have a rescue blanket on top of that.
- the bladder and nalgene likely weigh more than just the water contet.
- I guess the cord is for camping? I would not know what to do with it on a camino otherwise. Same goes for the lantern.
- I do miss some clothes pins, some cream, sun protection and a Credential
- Thats a pretty heavy charger...
- 100g detergent + 90g Shampoo (no soap?) and even conditioner... I used about 60g of Dr.Bronners for the Camino Frances to wash me and my clothes.
- 180g sounds heavy for a 5l dry bag.

As i said, thats just some thoughts. It's likely not all help, but maybe some...

edit: no hiking poles? I would think about that...

 

[JulioCesarSalad]

Please don't get me wrong - I don't mind if he wants to carry all of these things. It is just that you asked for opinions on how to shake this down, so I'm offering these suggestions and challenges.

Shakedowns should always be ruthless

Why two pairs of regular pants?

To be able to change once the weather is nice towards the end

He will only need 30' of 8 mm rope if he washes all of those excess clothes at once!

So smaller lighter rope, maybe just the ultralight cord

I am not sure what the first one is being used for, but I would take two, so that all clothes and sleeping bag can be contained.

First one is for phone and stuff, but ok will budget for a second larger bag

1. vest - What is this? You have a separate puffy

Was thinking of eliminating the fleece but you're right to maybe eliminate the vest. Cold could be thermal+shirt+fleece+puffy. Vest was for cooler days, that that could be solved with shirt+puffy only instead of shirt+fleece+vest

1. fleece
2. puffy
3. rain jacket

So in the clothes department, I suggest eliminating 1 regular shirt, 1 thermal shirt, 1 thermal pants, 1 weatherproof pants,1 pair underpants.

Some important items I don't see are a warm hat and scarf or buff.

Eliminated:
1 thermal shirt, 1 thermal pant, general lantern (keep only headlamp?)

Added: buff, super important and on my mind but not on the list!

 

[JulioCesarSalad]

First: I have not walked a camino in winter.
Second: My spring Camino pack is quite a bit lighter than what your cousin carries in clothes alone.
--> so please consider that i might be a bit biased

I requested feedback from people who have done the Camino in winter precisely to we could get relevant advice.

As stated, starred items are estimates and I'm not home to weigh things.

 

[henrythedog]

I got half way down the list and gave up.

Spain is a very civilised country with a generally temperate climate and few examples of dangerous wildlife. If your associate wants to sleep in a hammock, then good luck to him. I’d dearly like to sleep in a bed in the Parador in Santiago; but I’m not going to carry it with me.

If I were you, I’d just send ‘your cousin’ on his way and order in a large consignment of popcorn. If that’s his or her view on what to pack, that’s OK.

 

[henrythedog]

You don't need 10 different shirts! I think that several shirts and one thermal pants could be eliminated right

I have just checked my wardrobe. Mrs HtD has been in there recently; I’m long retired and don’t ‘dress up’ any more.

I own nine shirts.

 

[Tincatinker]

You’ve not said where your cousin is headed post-Camino. If it’s the south of Spain I’d just budget on buying warm weather clothes, a pair of shorts and a couple of T’s, when I got there. I’d not plan on schlepping them through the snow and rain for a month just in case. My credit card weighs a couple of grams and I don’t even need to worry about keeping it dry

 

[Anhalter]

I requested feedback from people who have done the Camino in winter precisely to we could get relevant advice.

As stated, starred items are estimates and I'm not home to weigh things.

Well, while I am quite confident that i would be able to do a winter camino with a pack of around 5-6kg plus water I am a tad bit sorry that thats not relevant enough for you. I guess carrying 16kg up the pyrenees is just to much fun.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Does this mean that the things on your list with zero weight will make it even heavier?

 

[C clearly]

Shakedowns should always be ruthless

To be able to change once the weather is nice towards the end

What do you mean? To have a more seasonally-appropriate pair, or just to wash? There are still more than enough trousers to cover the legs while the first pair is being washed. Or is this a post-camino wardrobe item? Personally I wear Camino clothes everywhere, all year.

I own nine shirts.

My husband probably owns 200. All of them are either hand-me-downs from various sources, or >30 years old, and he won't let me dispose of them. He has enough "gardening" clothes for about 10 life times.

 

[henrythedog]

What do you mean? To have a more seasonally-appropriate pair, or just to wash? There are still more than enough trousers to cover the legs while the first pair is being washed. Or is this a post-camino wardrobe item? Personally I wear Camino clothes everywhere, all year.


My husband probably owns 200. All of them are either hand-me-downs from various sources, or >30 years old, and he won't let me dispose of them. He has enough "gardening" clothes for about 10 life times.

Mrs HtD confessed some time ago that items which she finds objectionable are first removed from my wardrobe to a neutral location. If, within 12 months I don’t ask ‘have you seen my X?’; then they’re recycled or donated.

I’ve always been a little bit afraid of Mrs HtD. She says that’s the natural order of things and I shouldn’t worry about it, so that’s alright then.

 

[trecile]

I always "relax" in the same clothes that I will be wearing the next day, so I think that a set of clothes to relax in is redundant.

I only need 2 pair of underwear, but I bring 3 in case a pair goes missing off the clothesline or in the laundry somewhere.

Same with socks, I could get by with 2 pair, but bring 3 so that I always have dry socks to change into.

The portable charger is too heavy. I use one that weighs 114 grams and will fully charge my phone.

That's a heavy dry bag, especially for only a 5 liter size. My Osprey 12 liter dry bag weighs only 35 grams.

I don't know what the cord is for, but that's a lot of weight.

What's the swimsuit for in February??

Those weatherproof pants are ridiculously heavy and redundant since you already have rain pants.

A pillow is not necessary, neither is a sleeping pad.

Send the hammock and accessories ahead to Santiago.

I don't think that a vest or fleece is needed with a puffy jacket. Especially since there's also a thermal shirt to wear underneath.

A body sized PackTowl UltraLite weighs only 100 grams

And I agree - too many top layers!

 

[C clearly]

I don't think that a vest or fleece is needed with a puffy jacket. Especially since there's also a thermal shirt to wear underneath.

I am inclined to agree that all four - thermal, vest, fleece, puffy - would not likely be worn all at once, under a rain jacket. Since the rain jacket is essential, one of the others could be left behind. The puffy should never get wet so it will be available for evening warmth. The puffy will probably be too warm to wear for walking, anyway, except in an unusually cold situation, but it is wonderful to have for the evenings.

 

[Texas Walker]

Hello everyone, my cousin is planning to do the Camino de Santiago in February, starting February 1 on the Camino Frances. Could you all please help me with a shakedown? It's his first time

Most lists I've found are for summer Caminos, so there's a bunch of extra stuff for winter that I had to include

I’ve listed out his equipment below, but would appreciate help with a shakedown.
Lighterpack available here, starred items are weight estimates
Things I am unsure of are listed at the bottom:

TOTAL WEIGHT: 35 pounds
BASE WEIGHT: 21 pounds



HYGEINE
- Toothbrush
- Toothpaste
- Shampoo
- Conditioner
- Picaridin mosquito repellent (for March)
- Soap
- Detergent
- Quick dry towel

CLOTHES
- 4 pairs of wool socks
- 4 pairs of underwear
- Thermal pants, 2
- Thermal shirts, 2
- Mid-layer warm (like a Patagonia fleece)
- Vest (Columbia down vest)
- Puffy warm jacket (like a Patagonia Nanopuff)
- Gloves (not waterproof, should they be?)
- Hiking pants, 2
- Weatherproof pants, Fjallraven Vidda Pro, waxed for wind resistance
- Hiking shirts, 2
- Relaxing shirts, 2

This is a lot of clothes. I read it as 2 long-underwear pants, plus 2 hiking pants, and on top of that a weatherproof pant. Don't the hiking pants resist rain and wind?
Also 2 long-underwear shirts, plus 1 fleece (we call them "sweatshirts" in the US) and 2 "hiking" shirts, and 2 "relaxing" shirts, a vest and then on top of that a jacket. That is a lot of stuff. I personally would leave "relaxing" shirts at home. If you bring a down vest and also a puffy jacket, that is basically doubling up on the torso area. I personally would leave the vest at home if bringing a warm puffy jacket.

When we walked in October on the Salvador and Primitivo, I often started the day with: merino tee, poly button front collared shirt, fleece, and hooded windbreaker. Plus Buff. After the first half an hour or so we stopped and stuffed the windbreaker into the pack. Another hour or two and we took off the fleece. Sometimes we even took off the long sleeved shirt, too. On the bottom, I wore tights and wind/water resistant pants.

You build up a lot of heat carrying a pack while marching down the trail.

SHOES
- Flipflops (shower)
- Tennis shoes (hanging out/relaxing shoes)

My first Camino, I had flipflops, which wandered town in the evening. Then I discovered Teva sandals, which were workable both in shower and for the evening. I would not bring a separate pair of full on shoes for evening.

- Hiking boots

RAIN
- Rain Jacket (goretex)
- Rain pants (goretex)
- Dry bag, 5L
- A safety net for phones and electronics during a rainstorm
- Backpack rain cover

Here we have different ideas. I have my poncho, and rain resistant pants that I'm wearing anyway. I don't bring a rain cover for the pack, as it's under the poncho. I don't bring rain paints and rain jacket, because if my legs are out in the blowing rain I will live, and the fleece is under the poncho.

SLEEPING
- Sleeping pad (foam)
- Sleeping bag 15F (30F comfort)
- Camping pillow

What other folks have said about pillows.

- Hammock
- He wants to go camping afterward and will have to carry the hammock throughout, even if he doesn’t use it during the pilgrimage itself

ELECTRONICS
- Phone
- Phone charger
- Portable battery

What is this?

- Headlamp

These are heavy. If you're bringing a cell phone, you can use a flashlight app. Lights the path nicely.

- Lantern

A mi, this is duplicative.

KITCHEN
- Eating bowl

If you're not planning to cook, you might skip this. Or you could substitute a lightweight unbreakable mug?

- Spork

I saved the disposable plastic spoons from the airplane.

EMERGENCY KIT
- First aid kit

The packaged first aid kits are heavy. (Some include packages of water.) You can buy refills of tape, gauze, and various other items at farmacias. You do want to carry personal meds of the tummy or anti-inflammatory types, as you can't rely on the Spanish market to carry the brands you're used to.

- Whistle
- Thermal blanket

A thermal blanket in addition to a sleeping bag and a pad?

BACKPACK
- 34L backpack

WATER
- Nalgene 1L
- Backpack hydration 3L

This is duplicative. I have walked multiple times with no backpack hydration arrangement. I refill bottles at fountains in Spain, or buy new if in Portugal (where there were very few usable potable fountains). Also the mouthpiece of the hydration system is an attractor (IMHO) for bacteria.

Medical
- Blister bandages

Opinions differ on blister bandages. What was going to be in the first aid kit if it wasn't where the blister treatments were? (I personally use alcohol (AKA hand sanitizer), gauze, and paper tape on blisters.)

TOOLS
- Swiss Army knife
- Light cord
- Accessory cord

I read that as "cord" twice. If you have a paracord hunk for using as clothesline, tethering, etc, why would you want an "accessory" cord? What is that? (But you do want to bring some plastic clothespins, and a couple of safety pins. And a cheap stopper for the washtub.)

- Carabiners



THINGS I WONDER ABOUT
- 1 flannel shirt
- for warmth and to have a collared shirt for the post-hike travel

If one of the hiking shirts has a collar, you can cut the flannel shirt. Which takes forever to dry. If you already have a fleece and a long underwear shirt and a hiking shirt that's plenty of warmth.

- Medium dry bag
- Is it useful? The backpack already has a rain cover

Ah, here you and I differ. I use a poncho that covers the pack and myself. I well remember walking behind people with the rain covers on their packs in rain and seeing the sizable puddle of water in the bottom of the rain cover, bouncing along as they walked.

Many of these things are personal judgement calls. I hope that all of our thoughts are some use to you.
BC

 

[JimG59]

I requested feedback from people who have done the Camino in winter precisely to we could get relevant advice.

As stated, starred items are estimates and I'm not home to weigh things.

Unnecessary.

People are trying to help. I’ve not done a winter Camino, but could certainly pack for one.

 

[Ron Cesvalles]

The bag should weigh about half that weight.
I walk 2 caminos every year and my bag is no more than 6 kgs with everything I need.
It would be a little heavier in winter with extra clothes and rain gear but much of this would be worn so the actual carried bag weight wouldn’t be much different

 

[nilesite]

I walk in winter. They’ll need to keep the pack to around 12 pounds. Pack a change of clothes, soap and toothpaste, and a sleeping bag. But super lightweight tops at Uniqlo and bring a pair of their longjohns.

 

[JerryStroebele]

If he can get all that in a 34L pack I sure would like to know the secret. My 38L is crammed with half of that. Buen Camino

 

[bobotron801]

To each their own but that pack sounds miserable. I walked Oct-November with a 10L pack that weighed 6lbs.

I’m getting ready to walk CF in January-February with a 24L pack that weighs 9 lbs.

I recommend going on a week long shakedown hike and anything that doesn’t get used, ditch.

 

[bobotron801]

To each their own but that pack sounds miserable. I walked Oct-November with a 10L pack that weighed 6lbs.

I’m getting ready to walk CF in January-February with a 24L pack that weighs 9 lbs.

I recommend going on a week long shakedown hike and anything that doesn’t get used, ditch.

If you can’t do a week long shakedown hike then I recommended solely living out of that pack for a week. And carry it with you when you go places.

 

[MikeJS]

Hello everyone, my cousin is planning to do the Camino de Santiago in February, starting February 1 on the Camino Frances. Could you all please help me with a shakedown? It's his first time

Most lists I've found are for summer Caminos, so there's a bunch of extra stuff for winter that I had to include

I’ve listed out his equipment below, but would appreciate help with a shakedown.
Lighterpack available here, starred items are weight estimates
Things I am unsure of are listed at the bottom:

TOTAL WEIGHT: 35 pounds
BASE WEIGHT: 21 pounds



HYGEINE
- Toothbrush
- Toothpaste
- Shampoo
- Conditioner
- Picaridin mosquito repellent (for March)
- Soap
- Detergent
- Quick dry towel

CLOTHES
- 4 pairs of wool socks
- 4 pairs of underwear
- Thermal pants, 2
- Thermal shirts, 2
- Mid-layer warm (like a Patagonia fleece)
- Vest (Columbia down vest)
- Puffy warm jacket (like a Patagonia Nanopuff)
- Gloves (not waterproof, should they be?)
- Hiking pants, 2
- Weatherproof pants, Fjallraven Vidda Pro, waxed for wind resistance
- Hiking shirts, 2
- Relaxing shirts, 2

SHOES
- Flipflops (shower)
- Tennis shoes (hanging out/relaxing shoes)
- Hiking boots

RAIN
- Rain Jacket (goretex)
- Rain pants (goretex)
- Dry bag, 5L
- A safety net for phones and electronics during a rainstorm
- Backpack rain cover


SLEEPING
- Sleeping pad (foam)
- Sleeping bag 15F (30F comfort)
- Camping pillow
- Hammock
- He wants to go camping afterward and will have to carry the hammock throughout, even if he doesn’t use it during the pilgrimage itself

ELECTRONICS
- Phone
- Phone charger
- Portable battery
- Headlamp
- Lantern


KITCHEN
- Eating bowl
- Spork


EMERGENCY KIT
- First aid kit
- Whistle
- Thermal blanket

BACKPACK
- 34L backpack

WATER
- Nalgene 1L
- Backpack hydration 3L

Medical
- Blister bandages

TOOLS
- Swiss Army knife
- Light cord
- Accessory cord
- Carabiners



THINGS I WONDER ABOUT
- 1 flannel shirt
- for warmth and to have a collared shirt for the post-hike travel
- Medium dry bag
- Is it useful? The backpack already has a rain cover

Wow!

HYGEINE
- Toothbrush
- Toothpaste
- Shampoo — not required
- Conditioner not required
- Picaridin mosquito repellent (for March)
- Soap - 1 bar of something like https://www.amazon.co.uk/fairy-soap-bars/s?k=fairy+soap+bars&tag=casaivar-21&tag=casaivar-21 will do all you need for washing and laundry!
- Detergent - not required
- Quick dry towel

CLOTHES
- 4 pairs of wool socks 1 on 1 off 1 spare
- 4 pairs of underwear 1 on 1 off 1 spare
- Thermal pants, 2
- Thermal shirts, 2
- Mid-layer warm (like a Patagonia fleece)
- Vest (Columbia down vest) can’t imaging you will need this as well as the our ‘warm wear’?
- Puffy warm jacket (like a Patagonia Nanopuff)
- Gloves (not waterproof, should they be?)
- Hiking pants, 2
- Weatherproof pants, Fjallraven Vidda Pro, waxed for wind resistance - instead of hiking pants….
- Hiking shirts, 2
- Relaxing shirts, 2

SHOES
- Flipflops (shower) get some simple sandals of heavy duty flip flops and ditch the tennis shoes
- Tennis shoes (hanging out/relaxing shoes)
- Hiking boots

RAIN
- Rain Jacket (goretex)
- Rain pants (goretex)
- Dry bag, 5L - plastic bin bag to line the rucksac
- A safety net for phones and electronics during a rainstorm??
- Backpack rain cover - the plastic bag above should suffice.


SLEEPING
- Sleeping pad (foam) not required
- Sleeping bag 15F (30F comfort)
- Camping pillow
- Hammock
- He wants to go camping afterward and will have to carry the hammock throughout, even if he doesn’t use it during the pilgrimage itself

ELECTRONICS
- Phone
- Phone charger
- Portable battery
- Headlamp
- Lantern why?


KITCHEN
- Eating bowl
- Spork


EMERGENCY KIT
- First aid kit
- Whistle
- Thermal blanket you have enogh warm clothes already

BACKPACK
- 34L backpack

WATER
- Nalgene 1L
- Backpack hydration 3L

Medical
- Blister bandages

TOOLS
- Swiss Army knife
- Light cord
- Accessory cord
- Carabiners



THINGS I WONDER ABOUT
- 1 flannel shirt
- for warmth and to have a collared shirt for the post-hike travel
- Medium dry bag
- Is it useful? The backpack already has a rain cover

 

[peregrino_tom]

Hi Julio
I’ve just been looking at the three questions you’ve raised on the forum so far, on behalf of your cousin, who plans to walk the camino Norte for the first time starting 1 February.
While it’s great that you are trying to help him, your cousin is the one who needs to own and drive this - not you, or this is not going to end well.

If your cousin is a fit tough Spanish-speaking guy with plenty of money and a cool temperament, able to think on his feet and happy to spend many cold nights alone... then true, he may be able to rock up on the Norte with a hefty pack prepared by you and do it. But I think that would be highly untypical!

Packing and trying out ideas and options is a really important part of preparing for the camino - as is researching routes and working out which ones are viable in winter. Your cousin needs to be doing this. A winter camino is never an easy option, it will take much fortitude and a bloody-minded determination to succeed. His engagement in preparation can help him overcome many of the challenges.

My advice -
1 your cousin needs to starting working all of this out for himself. You can advise him a little but he needs to own all of this - with or without input from this forum.
2 IMO his starting point should be appreciate that this is going to be tough. He needs to minimise the considerable challenge of a full length winter camino by focussing ruthlessly on what it will take to achieve it. And that is going to be a lot more do-able if he opts for the Camino Frances not the Norte and only carries what he needs to complete the camino, not a great big bundle of other stuff for leisure time or subsequent travels.
Cheers, tom

 

[Former member 92300]

HYGEINE
- - Conditioner
- Picaridin mosquito repellent (for March)
- Soap
- Detergent
-

Use a shampoo with conditioner in one... or better yet use a shampoo bar. A shampoo bar can be used for hair, body, and handwashed laundry. If you don't like a shampoo bar for your hair - then use a shampoo/conditioner in one and a bar of soap for body and laundry.
Don't need mosquito repellent. I have gone Late May-Late July and never needed.

CLOTHES
- 4 pairs of wool socks
- 4 pairs of underwear
- Thermal pants, 2
- Thermal shirts, 2
- Mid-layer warm (like a Patagonia fleece)
- Vest (Columbia down vest)
- Puffy warm jacket (like a Patagonia Nanopuff)
- G- Hiking pants, 2
- Weatherproof pants, Fjallraven Vidda Pro, waxed for wind resistance
- Hiking shirts, 2
- Relaxing shirts, 2

Instead 2 thermal pants/shirts - just bring one and then a regular pair of regular hiking pants and shirt. Layer as needed. Since it will be march, the waterproof pants might be good.
Do you need a vest and a puffy?

SHOES
- Tennis shoes (hanging out/relaxing shoes)
- Hiking boots

I would say trail running shoes OR boots... not both. But if you want a second pair of shoes other than your flip flops or sandals - just make sure they are VERY lightweight. I personally have ditched boots for most hiking.

RAIN

- Rain pants (goretex)
-

Are you saying in addition to the weather pants above? These could be the same item

SLEEPING
- Sleeping pad (foam)
- Sleeping bag 15F (30F comfort)
- Camping pillow
- Hammock
- He wants to go camping afterward and will have to carry the hammock throughout, even if he doesn’t use it during the pilgrimage itself

Hmm... for the Camino you can definitely save a lot of weight by skipping the camping gear - but not if going camping too. I personally would skip the pad, pillow (can use a stuff sack with clothes inside), and hammock and you wouldn't need as heavy of a bag if not going camping.

ELECTRONICS
-
- Lantern

Don't need a lantern - you have your headlamp. You might not even need a headlamp since your phone as a flashlight.

KITCHEN
- Eating bowl
- Spork

Not necessary

EMERGENCY KIT
- First aid kit
- Whistle
- Thermal blanket

Does your backpack have a built in whistle on the chest strap? If yes - ditch the whistle. The Camino isn't a wilderness hike so I would also skip the thermal blanket - you have a sleeping bag but you shouldn't have a problem finding shelter

BACKPACK
- 34L backpack

Good - I am just trying to figure out how you can fit all the gear you listed in it! I hiked with a 30L for 2 Caminos and will do a 24L for the next one.

WATER
- Nalgene 1L
- Backpack hydration 3L

Don't need the hydration pack. And you can bring a nalgene - but if you want to save weight - but 2 1L bottles of water and then reuse the ligthweight water bottle that the water comes in. If you like a hose, they have hydration hoses you can buy that attach to the disposable water bottles.

Medical
- Blister bandages

Well - this is your first aid kits main item - just wondering why it is listed separately.

TOOLS
- Swiss Army knife
- Light cord
- Accessory cord
- Carabiners

Don't need any of this - although the Swiss Army Knife could come in handy for cutting bread

THINGS I WONDER ABOUT
- 1 flannel shirt
- for warmth and to have a collared shirt for the post-hike travel
- Medium dry bag
- Is it useful? The backpack already has a rain cover

You have a dry bag listed above, you don't need a flannel shirt - the layers above should be fine, and for post-hike travel - just buy a shirt if you want something different for your post Camino travels. Carrying something across Spain on your back that you won't use until after you hike across Spain is less than ideal.


Regarding the clothes - you just need one set of clothes to walk in. One set of clothes to wear in the evening and as you wander around town. At most - one additional set of clothes if you don't want to do laundry every day - but the idea is to layer. It will be cold out but you might still want a t-shirt, 1-2 long sleeves, a mid-layer like a wool pullover, and your down puffy. And your rain jacket can be an outer layer when very cold. Remember - when you are walking - you will likely be peeling off layers even when it is very cold out.

 

[DBC]

Hello everyone, my cousin is planning to do the Camino de Santiago in February, starting February 1 on the Camino Frances. Could you all please help me with a shakedown? It's his first time

Most lists I've found are for summer Caminos, so there's a bunch of extra stuff for winter that I had to include

I’ve listed out his equipment below, but would appreciate help with a shakedown.
Lighterpack available here, starred items are weight estimates
Things I am unsure of are listed at the bottom:

TOTAL WEIGHT: 35 pounds
BASE WEIGHT: 21 pounds



HYGEINE
- Toothbrush
- Toothpaste
- Shampoo
- Conditioner
- Picaridin mosquito repellent (for March)
- Soap
- Detergent
- Quick dry towel

CLOTHES
- 4 pairs of wool socks
- 4 pairs of underwear
- Thermal pants, 2
- Thermal shirts, 2
- Mid-layer warm (like a Patagonia fleece)
- Vest (Columbia down vest)
- Puffy warm jacket (like a Patagonia Nanopuff)
- Gloves (not waterproof, should they be?)
- Hiking pants, 2
- Weatherproof pants, Fjallraven Vidda Pro, waxed for wind resistance
- Hiking shirts, 2
- Relaxing shirts, 2

SHOES
- Flipflops (shower)
- Tennis shoes (hanging out/relaxing shoes)
- Hiking boots

RAIN
- Rain Jacket (goretex)
- Rain pants (goretex)
- Dry bag, 5L
- A safety net for phones and electronics during a rainstorm
- Backpack rain cover


SLEEPING
- Sleeping pad (foam)
- Sleeping bag 15F (30F comfort)
- Camping pillow
- Hammock
- He wants to go camping afterward and will have to carry the hammock throughout, even if he doesn’t use it during the pilgrimage itself

ELECTRONICS
- Phone
- Phone charger
- Portable battery
- Headlamp
- Lantern


KITCHEN
- Eating bowl
- Spork


EMERGENCY KIT
- First aid kit
- Whistle
- Thermal blanket

BACKPACK
- 34L backpack

WATER
- Nalgene 1L
- Backpack hydration 3L

Medical
- Blister bandages

TOOLS
- Swiss Army knife
- Light cord
- Accessory cord
- Carabiners



THINGS I WONDER ABOUT
- 1 flannel shirt
- for warmth and to have a collared shirt for the post-hike travel
- Medium dry bag
- Is it useful? The backpack already has a rain cover

Initial thoughts.
Lose the Vida pro as he has hiking pants (2x zip-off trousers I hope) and rain pants for cold days.
Puffy jacket = doesn’t also need a Columbia down gilet/vest.
Thermal shirts ok, take 1 more of those and then loose the 2x hiking shirts. My thermal shirts were slightly baggy and doubled as my clean casual shirts after the daily post-walk shower.
Headlamp or lantern, a good headlamp = lantern not needed.
Post-hike clothes, hammock etc send forward to Ivar’s collection point in Santiago.

 

[frank rawley]

I will be walking my fourth winter french route starting Jan 11 till Feb 28. My winter pack weight has never exceeded 14 lbs. I have not been cold or uncomfortable. Trust the advice that has been posted!

 

[Former member 92300]

Ok so lets cut one thermal shirt

It looks to me like everything else still has a use? I am thinking in layers.

Cold: Shirt, fleece, vest, puffy
layers removed as needed for cooler temps

Cold wind: Shirt, fleece, puffy, rain jacket

Shirts: one to hike, one dirty, one to relax, one to sleep

Could you explain what specifically should be cut?

You are thinking in layers - but you are separating out the type of weather.

You could easily layer a shirt, fleece, puffy and a rain jacket for cold or cold/wind, o r cold/rain. Skip the vest. Don't bring multiples. If you find it isn't enough - there are always stores in Spain.

Shirts: You need one to hike in and one to relax/sleep in. You don't need a separate one from evening to night, and you certainly don't need to carry a dirty one. Two is plenty, 3 is luxery, 4 is overkill.

 

[Pilgrim Patricia]

Initial thoughts.
Lose the Vida pro as he has hiking pants (2x zip-off trousers I hope) and rain pants for cold days.
Puffy jacket = doesn’t also need a Columbia down gilet/vest.
Thermal shirts ok, take 1 more of those and then loose the 2x hiking shirts. My thermal shirts were slightly baggy and doubled as my clean casual shirts after the daily post-walk shower.
Headlamp or lantern, a good headlamp = lantern not needed.
Post-hike clothes, hammock etc send forward to Ivar’s collection point in Santiago.

I definitely second the pants that zip off at or above the knee. If the lower legs get wet you zip them off and they'll dry quickly; meanwhile you're still dressed. You can even zip on the lower legs of the second pair to make a complete pair of trousers if you want to keep walking (as opposed to hanging out in a nice warm cafe while the zipped off parts dry).

 

[dougfitz]

Hello everyone, my cousin is planning to do the Camino de Santiago in February, starting February 1 on the Camino Frances.

Your cousin would be just as welcome on the forum as you are. Double handling all the feedback you are getting must be getting pretty tedious by now!

 

[Liam55]

Hi. You have tons of information now. But why carry a pillow across Spain when you can buy one if necessary in Santiago!!! I use a poncho which means no need for rain jacket. I wear shorts so no need for rain pants!! You gotta remove every ounce not necessary!! Best of luck. Liam

 

[JulioCesarSalad]

If your cousin is a fit tough Spanish-speaking guy and a cool temperament, able to think on his feet and happy to spend many cold nights alone.

yup!

with plenty of money

nope lol

I understand and appreciate the concern, and it would normally be well founded. However my cousin is Going Through Some Stuff and as such he can't fully handle the research I'm doing ahead of this for him.

The shakedown has really helped a lot, and I sincerely appreciate everyone's help here. Thanks to advice and research the plan has been changed to the Camino Frances, still in February.

He's still the one making the decisions, I'm just compiling equipment feedback and shelter availability and presenting them to him, He will be good to go for the trip itself, it's just that right now he's even speechless that this trip is even happening and needs to deal with other things, so I'm lightening his load by handling the research

 

[jl]

I am currently on the Camino Francés, 2 days out from Santiago. I will not bore you with a list of all that I carry, but just want to say I have one set of clothes for walking and one set of clothes to change into at the end of the day. Some get added or not depending on the cold (or rain). I have a puffer jacket for additional warmth, which has been worn most evenings, and a pair of thermal trousers, yet to be worn. I wish I had only brought 2 pairs of socks instead of the three. The albergues I have stayed in have been warm - too warm. There are not many bars open between villages, but I haven't starved, and I always have a back up of muesli bars should they be needed.

 

[wynrich]

We just walked the Frances in March and didn't encounter any mosquitoes. Never encountered mosquitos in late spring or fall either. Have never carried mosquito repellent. If you do need it, you can get it along the way.

 

[Liam55]

And rem a full pack must not be more than 10% of one’s own weight. I get mine down to 7kgs and that’s enough for me. Both in terms of what I carry and the weight on my back!!! Go light!!

 

[FRM]

I’ve walked in February and early March. I think your cousin needs a better understanding of what walking the Camino is and isn’t. He’s not going on a backwoods backpacking trip. He will be walking along paths with services every couple of hours (with a few exceptions). He won’t finish if tries walking with any weight near 35 lbs.

frm

 

[trecile]

And rem a full pack must not be more than 10% of one’s own weight.

10% is not a hard and fast rule. Some are comfortable with more, and some with less.

 

[Former member 92300]

He's still the one making the decisions, I'm just compiling equipment feedback and shelter availability and presenting them to him, He will be good to go for the trip itself, it's just that right now he's even speechless that this trip is even happening and needs to deal with other things, so I'm lightening his load by handling the research

Eh.... you shouldn't even have to "defend" why you are helping him! It is funny how people tend to throw in the judgement. I had the same happen when I planned to hike part of the Pacific Crest Trail with my kids (one a teenage and the other a young adult). It was MY trip and "I" was buying gear for "us" and asked a couple questions like - what type of pants/shorts do most of the men on the facebook page for the trail prefer and I got lambasted because if my son is going on the trip then HE should be doing the research and buying his own gear. Um... he was in college... he was focusing on college work... and on a very tight college kid budget and I was the one who asked HIM to come with ME and therefore I was doing some research and purchasing some the gear for him. Plus - I knew my kid - he would have just worn his jeans not realizing what a bad idea it is to wear jeans on a long distance wilderness hike. Besides, What business was it of theirs as to whether or not my son was doing his research or spending his money or if I did both for him? And my son was doing ME a favor simply by agreeing to come with me! People are over the top that way.

Yes - it would be good for your cousin to do all of this for himself, but how very kind of you to try to help him!

 

[Former member 92300]

And rem a full pack must not be more than 10% of one’s own weight. I get mine down to 7kgs and that’s enough for me. Both in terms of what I carry and the weight on my back!!! Go light!!

The 10% rule came from a child's school backpack study and was never meant to be applied to adults in backpacking situations whether it be a Pilgrimage like the Camino or a backcountry wilderness hike... yet it is the so called magic number which way too many people keep quoting.

Carrying 10% of your body weight may be ideal for some, but it is a bad idea for many. Why? If you weigh 30 pounds, is it a good idea to pack 300 pounds and carry it across Spain when you don't need 30 pounds of gear to do the trip? If you weigh 100 pounds, will carrying 10 pounds mean you have everything you need for the situation you are about to be placed in and will you have the appropriate whether gear for the season you are hiking in? For example - 4 days on a wilderness hike means you need WAY MORE than 10 pounds of gear for most people/situation and limiting yourself to that 10 pounds could mean life or death in some weather situations.

Instead - I tell people to aim for packs that weigh less than 7kg/15 pounds (to the extent possible) for a hike like the Camino where you have access to food and beds on a daily basis. Pack as light as possible, but make sure you have the necessities to keep you safe for the conditions you will be hiking in. If you have to go over that 7kg/15 pounds then it is OK, but the lighter it is the more comfortable you will be.

I have my Camino pack down to a 24L pack weighing 5kg/11 pounds. That is including some "extra" clothing and I am counting the clothes I will hike in - in that number (except my trail runners - those aren't in my pack right now). So the actual gear weight I will be carrying will be even lower (without food/water)

 

[dougfitz]

And rem a full pack must not be more than 10% of one’s own weight.

10% is not a hard and fast rule.

@trecile is right, this is at best a rule of thumb. It might work well enough for a summer camino, but is unlikely to be a good guide for pack weight in the other seasons.

There are good sources that suggest that winter walking could require anything up to double the volume of gear compared to summer. Like others, I think I could pack for a winter camino in less than that, but I doubt I could get it down to the point where it fits into a 34 litre pack. There are just too many unknowns for me to even bother commenting in detail.

What I would suggest is the following pattern for clothing, where I suspect there is considerably more than might be required:

1. things to take three of: base layers, ie underwear and socks
2. things to take two of: mid-layers, ie trousers and shirts (T or otherwise)
3. things to take one of: everything else, ie warm, wind and waterproof, gloves, beanie, tube scarf
4. concessions to comfort: I take a pair of shorts and an additional long sleeve base layer top to wear in bed, and I have a medium brimmed hat as well as a beanie. I do take a light pair of shoes for use in the evening, but they could also be used during the walking day if conditions were suitable. I normally have walking mitts as well as warm gloves, although for a winter camino I might just take good gloves instead.
5. for a winter camino, I would consider taking full length gaiters in addition to rain pants to keep mud/slush/snow out. Having walked at the end of winter, there were days when one didn't want to be encased in full waterproof gear, but needed some more protection around the legs than trekking pants alone might offer.

The art of layering here is to select clothing that is going to offer more insulation, ie heavier weight base layers and mid layers, than one might do in summer. Taking extra garments should be unnecessary if you can get this right. More, and it has already been said, don't pack things just to 'look nice' in the evening. Wear the next day's clothes and warm layer, or even your ever so stylish waterproof jacket. No one really cares how you look!

ps @JulioCesarSalad, if your cousin is so debilitated in undertaking their own research in planning and preparing for a camino, I am wondering how they will survive on the camino without you. Do you really think that they are capable of doing this without having done some of the basics here themselves?

 

[David Tallan]

Hello everyone, my cousin is planning to do the Camino de Santiago in February, starting February 1 on the Camino Frances. Could you all please help me with a shakedown? It's his first time

Most lists I've found are for summer Caminos, so there's a bunch of extra stuff for winter that I had to include

I’ve listed out his equipment below, but would appreciate help with a shakedown.
Lighterpack available here, starred items are weight estimates
Things I am unsure of are listed at the bottom:

TOTAL WEIGHT: 35 pounds
BASE WEIGHT: 21 pounds



HYGEINE
- Toothbrush
- Toothpaste
- Shampoo
- Conditioner
- Picaridin mosquito repellent (for March)
- Soap
- Detergent
- Quick dry towel

CLOTHES
- 4 pairs of wool socks
- 4 pairs of underwear
- Thermal pants, 2
- Thermal shirts, 2
- Mid-layer warm (like a Patagonia fleece)
- Vest (Columbia down vest)
- Puffy warm jacket (like a Patagonia Nanopuff)
- Gloves (not waterproof, should they be?)
- Hiking pants, 2
- Weatherproof pants, Fjallraven Vidda Pro, waxed for wind resistance
- Hiking shirts, 2
- Relaxing shirts, 2

SHOES
- Flipflops (shower)
- Tennis shoes (hanging out/relaxing shoes)
- Hiking boots

RAIN
- Rain Jacket (goretex)
- Rain pants (goretex)
- Dry bag, 5L
- A safety net for phones and electronics during a rainstorm
- Backpack rain cover


SLEEPING
- Sleeping pad (foam)
- Sleeping bag 15F (30F comfort)
- Camping pillow
- Hammock
- He wants to go camping afterward and will have to carry the hammock throughout, even if he doesn’t use it during the pilgrimage itself

ELECTRONICS
- Phone
- Phone charger
- Portable battery
- Headlamp
- Lantern


KITCHEN
- Eating bowl
- Spork


EMERGENCY KIT
- First aid kit
- Whistle
- Thermal blanket

BACKPACK
- 34L backpack

WATER
- Nalgene 1L
- Backpack hydration 3L

Medical
- Blister bandages

TOOLS
- Swiss Army knife
- Light cord
- Accessory cord
- Carabiners



THINGS I WONDER ABOUT
- 1 flannel shirt
- for warmth and to have a collared shirt for the post-hike travel
- Medium dry bag
- Is it useful? The backpack already has a rain cover

Some of the areas I was different.
Hygiene: Instead of soap, shampoo, and conditioner, I just took a shampoo bar and used it for body and hair. I used light detergent strips for laundry, rather than carrying lots of detergent.
Clothes: I had three sets: one to wear and two to carry (many prefer just two), plus a hoodie or fleece for extra warmth and a light windbreaker/rain jacket for rain when needed. This seems an excessive amount of clothing for a Camino. Significantly more than I brought and many people would say I took too much.
Shoes: That seems a lot. One pair of something to walk in and one pair for other purposes seems plenty. I took trail runners and hiking sandals and that was it.
Rain: See the rain jacket above under clothes, and a rain cover for my pack that came with it. I also took a number of ziplock bags as additional protection for things inside my pack.
Sleeping: Sleeping pad is not necessary if you are staying in albergues. Neither is a hammock. If a bunch of this stuff is for his camping afterwards, perhaps send it to Santiago to be picked up there so it needn't be carried the whole way.
Electronics: Headlamp and lantern seems to be duplication. See note above if the lantern is for camping afterwards.
Kitchen: I took a spork. I don't know if I ever used it. Maybe a few times.

 

[Rita Flower]

Blessings to you and your cousin.
You have lots of good and accurate info to sort out and I wish him a successful Camino.
Some thoughts.
The pack
Everyone’s first Camino is a learning curve. We have all left extra gear in albergues or bins over the first few days. So the pack can be culled or added to along the way. Just do the best you can.
The person - and these thoughts may be redundant
Walking any Camino can take a lot of personal resilience and problem solving skills. It can challenge the psyche. Your cousin is very lucky to have your help.
Engagement in preparation will do a lot to build his psychological readiness. Participation in the forum is a great support. Recently one member of this forum followed my recent Camino Via De la Plata blog and was an incredibly valuable daily coach and mentor.
Last word on the pack from a forum member.

 

[dougfitz]

The 10% rule came from a child's school backpack study and was never meant to be applied to adults in backpacking situations whether it be a Pilgrimage like the Camino or a backcountry wilderness hike... yet it is the so called magic number which way too many people keep quoting.

That might be one source, but in this context, it can be traced to guidance offered by the British Confraternity of St James in their advice at that time about packing lists. I was always amused, because they had a recommended list of items which, if I had packed them from my own gear at the time, would have been difficult to keep under the 10% 'rule'. In the circumstances of the time, any rule of thumb was better than none, and I don't recall CSJ ever suggesting this was a strict limit.

 

[David Tallan]

And rem a full pack must not be more than 10% of one’s own weight.

That's a guideline, not a rule. Never think that if you just put on ten more kilos of weight you will be happy with another kilo in your backpack!

 

[Former member 92300]

That might be one source, but in this context, it can be traced to guidance offered by the British Confraternity of St James in their advice at that time about packing lists. I was always amused, because they had a recommended list of items which, if I had packed them from my own gear at the time, would have been difficult to keep under the 10% 'rule'. In the circumstances of the time, any rule of thumb was better than none, and I don't recall CSJ ever suggesting this was a strict limit.

Yes - more and more people and guides are using this 10% rule in their advice/guidance - but I do believe the original source for many was from this child's backpack study! After the child's backpack weight study all sorts of people started adopting this advice... and it spread like wildfire amongst the backpacking community - leaving out the fact that the study was regarding children's school backpacks.

And yes - it is hard for many to stick to 10%. I can't say for sure if the CPR stated it before or after the child's study - but I wouldn't be surprised if it was after.

 

[trecile]

I think that you are right @jeanineonthecamino that the 10% guideline came from recommendations for children's backpack weight.
For adults who are trying to follow the 10% guideline they should use their "ideal" or recommended body weight as a starting point. For example an overweight 230 lb/105 kg man with a recommended body weight for their height of 180 lbs/80 kg should carry a 18lb/8 kg pack not a 23 lb/10 kg pack - especially since he is already carrying an extra 50 lbs/23 kg of body weight.

 

[frank rawley]

Eh.... you shouldn't even have to "defend" why you are helping him! It is funny how people tend to throw in the judgement. I had the same happen when I planned to hike part of the Pacific Crest Trail with my kids (one a teenage and the other a young adult). It was MY trip and "I" was buying gear for "us" and asked a couple questions like - what type of pants/shorts do most of the men on the facebook page for the trail prefer and I got lambasted because if my son is going on the trip then HE should be doing the research and buying his own gear. Um... he was in college... he was focusing on college work... and on a very tight college kid budget and I was the one who asked HIM to come with ME and therefore I was doing some research and purchasing some the gear for him. Plus - I knew my kid - he would have just worn his jeans not realizing what a bad idea it is to wear jeans on a long distance wilderness hike. Besides, What business was it of theirs as to whether or not my son was doing his research or spending his money or if I did both for him? And my son was doing ME a favor simply by agreeing to come with me! People are over the top that way.

Yes - it would be good for your cousin to do all of this for himself, but how very kind of you to try to help him!

Sounds like you are judging people for judging. How about we stick to discussing equipment?

 

[henrythedog]

Sounds like you are judging people for judging. How about we stick to discussing equipment?

Whilst it’s not Jeanine’s most concise post, I don’t see anything implying judgement on judges, or whatever.

What’s your view on equipment, Frank?

 

[JulioCesarSalad]

Sounds like you are judging people for judging. How about we stick to discussing equipment?

I’m judging people for judging too.

“How will your cousin do the Camino if he’s not doing the research”

If retirement age people can handle it I’m sure a 30 year old in good shape will be fine

 

[dougfitz]

I’m judging people for judging too.

“How will your cousin do the Camino if he’s not doing the research”

If retirement age people can handle it I’m sure a 30 year old in good shape will be fine

Judge away! But first let me tell you why your assessment is naive. I have been helping people in my community prepare themselves for their pilgrimages for over a decade. Getting into good physical shape is just one element of a balanced preparation. Mental, emotional and spiritual preparation are just as important in my mind. And you have have given us a pretty bleak assessment of your cousin's current state of at least one of those. Perhaps they are undertaking a balanced preparation, but being 'in good shape' would only be part of that.

I don't know who made the statement you have quoted, but it hasn't appeared before in this thread. Judging those of us who have been trying to help you here for something none of us said seems rather odd.

 

[C clearly]

C'mon, guys. The first post pointing out that it can be important for the walker to be engaged in the planning made some good points, and the OP responded to allay our concerns. It is really not our business to go further into conjecture on a personal level, in a way that I would, frankly, find a bit insulting. I have been a member of the forum for 15 years now, and I feel I know a lot of the members and their idiosyncrasies. However, the OP here, @JulioCesarSalad , has been a member for only a week and he deserves better.

@JulioCesarSalad - I hope our advice is helping you, and that you will continue to ask questions.

 

[AlwynWellington]

@JulioCesarSalad, hi and a lot of noise in this thread

My tupence worth suggests your cousin:

• wears what he wants from the (revised?) list
• put the rest in the preferred pack
• do a multi-day walking trip - from home to somewhere and back - in your winter

A variant would be to set aside the stuff needed for a subsequent trip. On arrival in Spain this could be posted to Ivar at Compostela - your cousin collects from Ivar after arrival there.

That multi-day shakedown trip might resolve a number of issues for your cousin.

I for one, would be keen to hear of your cousins progress on that trip and on arrival in Spain.

Kia kaha, kia māia, kia mana'wa'nui (take care, be strong, patient and confident)

 

[JudyWanaWander]

Hello everyone, my cousin is planning to do the Camino de Santiago in February, starting February 1 on the Camino Frances. Could you all please help me with a shakedown? It's his first time

Most lists I've found are for summer Caminos, so there's a bunch of extra stuff for winter that I had to include

I’ve listed out his equipment below, but would appreciate help with a shakedown.
Lighterpack available here, starred items are weight estimates
Things I am unsure of are listed at the bottom:

TOTAL WEIGHT: 35 pounds
BASE WEIGHT: 21 pounds



HYGEINE
- Toothbrush
- Toothpaste
- Shampoo
- Conditioner
- Picaridin mosquito repellent (for March)
- Soap
- Detergent
- Quick dry towel

CLOTHES
- 4 pairs of wool socks
- 4 pairs of underwear
- Thermal pants, 2
- Thermal shirts, 2
- Mid-layer warm (like a Patagonia fleece)
- Vest (Columbia down vest)
- Puffy warm jacket (like a Patagonia Nanopuff)
- Gloves (not waterproof, should they be?)
- Hiking pants, 2
- Weatherproof pants, Fjallraven Vidda Pro, waxed for wind resistance
- Hiking shirts, 2
- Relaxing shirts, 2

SHOES
- Flipflops (shower)
- Tennis shoes (hanging out/relaxing shoes)
- Hiking boots

RAIN
- Rain Jacket (goretex)
- Rain pants (goretex)
- Dry bag, 5L
- A safety net for phones and electronics during a rainstorm
- Backpack rain cover


SLEEPING
- Sleeping pad (foam)
- Sleeping bag 15F (30F comfort)
- Camping pillow
- Hammock
- He wants to go camping afterward and will have to carry the hammock throughout, even if he doesn’t use it during the pilgrimage itself

ELECTRONICS
- Phone
- Phone charger
- Portable battery
- Headlamp
- Lantern


KITCHEN
- Eating bowl
- Spork


EMERGENCY KIT
- First aid kit
- Whistle
- Thermal blanket

BACKPACK
- 34L backpack

WATER
- Nalgene 1L
- Backpack hydration 3L

Medical
- Blister bandages

TOOLS
- Swiss Army knife
- Light cord
- Accessory cord
- Carabiners



THINGS I WONDER ABOUT
- 1 flannel shirt
- for warmth and to have a collared shirt for the post-hike travel
- Medium dry bag
- Is it useful? The backpack already has a rain cover

If it was me I would get rid of a lot of the clothes that you've listed. You can always pick up more if you need it but I would start as light as possible and purchase as you go if you need it rather than packing just in case.

 

[backpack45]

Hello everyone, my cousin is planning to do the Camino de Santiago in February, starting February 1 on the Camino Frances. Could you all please help me with a shakedown? It's his first time

Most lists I've found are for summer Caminos, so there's a bunch of extra stuff for winter that I had to include

I’ve listed out his equipment below, but would appreciate help with a shakedown.
Lighterpack available here, starred items are weight estimates
Things I am unsure of are listed at the bottom:

TOTAL WEIGHT: 35 pounds
BASE WEIGHT: 21 pounds



HYGEINE
- Toothbrush
- Toothpaste
- Shampoo
- Conditioner
- Picaridin mosquito repellent (for March)
- Soap
- Detergent
- Quick dry towel

CLOTHES
- 4 pairs of wool socks
- 4 pairs of underwear
- Thermal pants, 2
- Thermal shirts, 2
- Mid-layer warm (like a Patagonia fleece)
- Vest (Columbia down vest)
- Puffy warm jacket (like a Patagonia Nanopuff)
- Gloves (not waterproof, should they be?)
- Hiking pants, 2
- Weatherproof pants, Fjallraven Vidda Pro, waxed for wind resistance
- Hiking shirts, 2
- Relaxing shirts, 2

SHOES
- Flipflops (shower)
- Tennis shoes (hanging out/relaxing shoes)
- Hiking boots

RAIN
- Rain Jacket (goretex)
- Rain pants (goretex)
- Dry bag, 5L
- A safety net for phones and electronics during a rainstorm
- Backpack rain cover


SLEEPING
- Sleeping pad (foam)
- Sleeping bag 15F (30F comfort)
- Camping pillow
- Hammock
- He wants to go camping afterward and will have to carry the hammock throughout, even if he doesn’t use it during the pilgrimage itself

ELECTRONICS
- Phone
- Phone charger
- Portable battery
- Headlamp
- Lantern


KITCHEN
- Eating bowl
- Spork


EMERGENCY KIT
- First aid kit
- Whistle
- Thermal blanket

BACKPACK
- 34L backpack

WATER
- Nalgene 1L
- Backpack hydration 3L

Medical
- Blister bandages

TOOLS
- Swiss Army knife
- Light cord
- Accessory cord
- Carabiners



THINGS I WONDER ABOUT
- 1 flannel shirt
- for warmth and to have a collared shirt for the post-hike travel
- Medium dry bag
- Is it useful? The backpack already has a rain cover

Hi, I'll just comment on a few things because you've already had a lot of good suggestions to go through. I am a backpacker (PCT), but have never needed a pillow. You can stuff your down (or other puffy) jacket into the top of your sleeping bag. If you are taking rain pants, you don't need waterproof pants. You might test your backpack in the shower and determine if it is waterproof--my guess is it would be resistant for a while, but wet through soon enough (I would carry the cover). You don't need two containers for water. If at some point you decide you want a small container, buy a soft drink and reuse it for the rest of the hike. Lantern seems like a luxury item. I would carry a Smartwool top and bottoms and leave the undershirts behind. Smartwool can be worn for days without stinking and are warmer, whereas most shirts need washing often. I'm not sure you would ever need so many layers at one time--a shirt, vest, fleece jacket, puffy, and rainjacket. If you are doing the entire Frances, I recommend a hiker's umbrella. Yes, you have raingear, but it's still not pleasant to have rain pouring on your head and hitting you in the face.

 

[dick bird]

Of course, you could just tell him to carry everything he wants, then wait for him to discard the things he quickly discovers are not necessary. All I can add is that it isn't so much what you take as how many of it, which is the essence of most of the excellent advice you have already been given. the only other suggestion I can make is that he mails the camping equipment (e.g. hammock, pillow and sleeping mat) forward to Santiago so he can pick it up when he finishes the camino.

 

[trecile]

I am a backpacker (PCT), but have never needed a pillow

Pillows are provided in almost all albergues, so there's definitely no need to carry one.

 

[jl]

I have one more thing to add. My pack is an Aarn pro. This is a super light pack and comes with a liner. I am also using the balance pockets, also with liners, which means phone etc is handy, but safely dry. At my son's suggestion, I didn't bother with a pack cover and have arrived in heavy rain with everything in my pack bone dry. I might add I seem to be the only one without a pack cover! My son used his Aarn pro whilst walking 1,200 kms on a very wet path recently, often in heavy, torrential rain and everything stayed dry. I am not discussing how many litres it is as my views differ from many on this forum, suffice to say it is bigger, but lighter.

 

[debigetsout]

Hello everyone, my cousin is planning to do the Camino de Santiago in February, starting February 1 on the Camino Frances. Could you all please help me with a shakedown? It's his first time

Most lists I've found are for summer Caminos, so there's a bunch of extra stuff for winter that I had to include

I’ve listed out his equipment below, but would appreciate help with a shakedown.
Lighterpack available here, starred items are weight estimates
Things I am unsure of are listed at the bottom:

TOTAL WEIGHT: 35 pounds
BASE WEIGHT: 21 pounds



HYGEINE
- Toothbrush
- Toothpaste
- Shampoo
- Conditioner
- Picaridin mosquito repellent (for March)
- Soap
- Detergent
- Quick dry towel

CLOTHES
- 4 pairs of wool socks
- 4 pairs of underwear
- Thermal pants, 2
- Thermal shirts, 2
- Mid-layer warm (like a Patagonia fleece)
- Vest (Columbia down vest)
- Puffy warm jacket (like a Patagonia Nanopuff)
- Gloves (not waterproof, should they be?)
- Hiking pants, 2
- Weatherproof pants, Fjallraven Vidda Pro, waxed for wind resistance
- Hiking shirts, 2
- Relaxing shirts, 2

SHOES
- Flipflops (shower)
- Tennis shoes (hanging out/relaxing shoes)
- Hiking boots

RAIN
- Rain Jacket (goretex)
- Rain pants (goretex)
- Dry bag, 5L
- A safety net for phones and electronics during a rainstorm
- Backpack rain cover


SLEEPING
- Sleeping pad (foam)
- Sleeping bag 15F (30F comfort)
- Camping pillow
- Hammock
- He wants to go camping afterward and will have to carry the hammock throughout, even if he doesn’t use it during the pilgrimage itself

ELECTRONICS
- Phone
- Phone charger
- Portable battery
- Headlamp
- Lantern


KITCHEN
- Eating bowl
- Spork


EMERGENCY KIT
- First aid kit
- Whistle
- Thermal blanket

BACKPACK
- 34L backpack

WATER
- Nalgene 1L
- Backpack hydration 3L

Medical
- Blister bandages

TOOLS
- Swiss Army knife
- Light cord
- Accessory cord
- Carabiners



THINGS I WONDER ABOUT
- 1 flannel shirt
- for warmth and to have a collared shirt for the post-hike travel
- Medium dry bag
- Is it useful? The backpack already has a rain cover

Any products that are largely water based can go (except water itself). For example, take a small combo shampoo/conditioner/body cleansing bar and dry toothpaste. They are easy to find these days, particularly in bio stores.

 

[dougfitz]

If he can get all that in a 34L pack I sure would like to know the secret. My 38L is crammed with half of that. Buen Camino

There are plenty of threads that will help @JulioCesarSalad advise his cousin about this. As it stands, based on his proposed weights, I suspect he will need between 50 and 60 li to get it all in. That's not really a surprize. Once the cousin's packing list is sorted out, I still don't think it likely that what is needed for a winter camino will fit into the current pack, but it might get into something smaller perhaps around 45 li.

 

[DBC]

Pillows are provided in almost all albergues, so there's definitely no need to carry one.

Yes. I did take a silk pillow case with me (a Camino gift from my wife) and used it 2-3 times on a 39 day walk for some questionable clean bedding issues. Apart from the emotional value of being a gift from her, it weighed almost nothing so was never on a “leave behind” list.

 

[Former member 92300]

Sounds like you are judging people for judging. How about we stick to discussing equipment?

LOL... I was talking to the OP... I did stick to the equipment, until I saw that the OP was being placed in a defensive position which I feel was unnecessary, so I supported him. I am sorry if you have a problem with that. He came to us for help... I was supporting him with both the equipment and with his feeling the need to defend himself and his reasons for supporting his cousin.

 

[DBC]

Some of the areas I was different.
Hygiene: Instead of soap, shampoo, and conditioner, I just took a shampoo bar and used it for body and hair. I used light detergent strips for laundry, rather than carrying lots of detergent.
Clothes: I had three sets: one to wear and two to carry (many prefer just two), plus a hoodie or fleece for extra warmth and a light windbreaker/rain jacket for rain when needed. This seems an excessive amount of clothing for a Camino. Significantly more than I brought and many people would say I took too much.
Shoes: That seems a lot. One pair of something to walk in and one pair for other purposes seems plenty. I took trail runners and hiking sandals and that was it.
Rain: See the rain jacket above under clothes, and a rain cover for my pack that came with it. I also took a number of ziplock bags as additional protection for things inside my pack.
Sleeping: Sleeping pad is not necessary if you are staying in albergues. Neither is a hammock. If a bunch of this stuff is for his camping afterwards, perhaps send it to Santiago to be picked up there so it needn't be carried the whole way.
Electronics: Headlamp and lantern seems to be duplication. See note above if the lantern is for camping afterwards.
Kitchen: I took a spork. I don't know if I ever used it. Maybe a few times.

Yes! My trail sandals doubled as my to-from the shower footwear.

 

[JulioCesarSalad]

UPDATE:

NEW BASE WEIGHT: 15 pounds
NEW TOTAL WEIGHT: 25 pounds (6 pounds worn clothes, 4 pounds 2L water)

Updated Lighterpack link here

ELIMINATE:

• One thermal shirt
• One thermal pant
• Lantern
• Vest
• Weatherproof pants
• Conditioner
• Hammock (ship)
• Hammock straps (ship)
• Sleeping pad (ship)
• Accessory cord
• Flannel
• 2 kilos of water
• SealLine Dry Sack
• Repellent
• 15F sleeping bag (add 30F sleeping bag)
• First aid: swap .7 for .3
• 1 pair wool socks (leave two boot, one calf)
• Extra blister dressing

ADD

• Change shirts to: 1 wool t shirt, 1 collared hiking shirt, 2 t shirts
• 3L ultralight dry sack (phone/electronics) 20L ultralight dry sack (sleeping bag, clothes)
• Ziplock bag: to hold soap and shampoo after showering
• Seat pad
• 30F sleeping bag (saves 440 grams/1pound)
• Sleeping bag liner (adds 220 grams, for nights without heat)

NOTES

• The shampoo is solid shampoo
• To the people recommending sandals as comfort and bath shoes, can sandals really be worn outdoors in February? He is from Juarez, the desert, and while our winters do get down to freezing he is not accustomed to cold temperatures
• Keeping 4 shirts and 4 pairs of underwear
• Keeping detergent. One bottle is 100 grams
• Something to keep in mind is that the trip is expensive enough as is. Yes it’s cheaper than a 40 day hostel tour of Europe, but it’s still a solid $1,000 USD for the Camino by itself. If he can save money by carrying a small bottle of detergent concentrate and extra shirts and underwear then it helps him do the camino
• Keeping the 3L water bladder BUT subtracting 2 kilos of water weight, he can simply fill it up partway after learning how much water he drinks in a standard day
• Starred items are weight estimates, I have not had a chance to weigh everything so some things may be wildly off, like the flip-flops

A sincere thank you to everyone who has been helpful with this, I'm glad I am able to present him curated information thanks to you all's winter experience

 

[trecile]

Ziplock bag: to hold soap and shampoo after showering

Shampoo can be used to wash body - no need to take both.

 

[David Tallan]

To the people recommending sandals as comfort and bath shoes, can sandals really be worn outdoors in February? He is from Juarez, the desert, and while our winters do get down to freezing he is not accustomed to cold temperatures

A very reasonable point, and I will admit that my most recent Caminos, which I've been drawing from in my advice here, were in more clement weather than one is likely to find in February. Nevertheless, I think I would still only take two pairs of footwear: one for inside the albergue/bath wear and one for outside. I would just put my hiking shoes back on for outside excursions in town.

 

[trecile]

If it's not too cold sandals with wool socks can be warm enough. If not, just wear the walking shoes.

 

[C clearly]

That list looks much better! Just encourage him not to add anything, especially anything that he wouldn't be willing to get rid of later. It is very very tempting to toss more things in, at the last minute!

Rather than flip flops, which can't easily be worn with socks, consider using the plastic "slide" style footwear. I use them for "relaxing" but I usually wear my walking shoes if I am going anywhere further than 100 m away.

Many of us dislike having things dangling on the outside of our packs, especially in bad weather. I would advise getting a pack that is big enough to hold everything inside, so you might need to go a little larger than 34 L. However, if he already has the 34 L pack, it might be OK if you exclude the items that are being shipped ahead to Santiago.

Consider swapping the "eating bowl" for a wide mug or cup that can be put in the microwave. Albergues often have microwaves but no utensils or dishes.

 

[JulioCesarSalad]

you might need to go a little larger than 34 L.

Yes! The backpack will be purchased when he is in DC visiting me, so we can just put everything in mine, go to REI, and find a backpack he likes that will hold everything

AS to shoes, I'm thinking of sending him with the three pairs, shower shoes and super light sneakers in the backpack, and if it's too much he can just mail his sneakers ahead

A mug: I have to check how much the bowl actually weights because it's very light. Would a mug be useful outside of food? I'm assuming coffee would be from a cafe, and as such would have its own mug

 

[C clearly]

Would a mug be useful outside of food?

For a winter camino, the opportunity of being able to heat up some food or a hot drink is very appealing. Sometimes the local cafes are not open early in the morning. Of course, he can still do it with a bowl, but a wide mouth mug might be more versatile, so keep it in mind when you are shopping. I have improvised with yoghurt containers upon occasion, so don't fret about it!

 

[JulioCesarSalad]

For a winter camino, the opportunity of being able to heat up some food or a hot drink is very appealing. Sometimes the local cafes are not open early in the morning. Of course, he can still do it with a bowl, but a wide mouth mug might be more versatile, so keep it in mind when you are shopping. I have improvised with yoghurt containers upon occasion, so don't fret about it!

Just asked and he doesn't drink coffee, so the bowl might be better in this case

 

[wynrich]

One thing you might tell him about is that all the larger towns have what people call "China stores" (I'm not sure that is the best term) which have just about anything you can think of to buy, not always high quality, but very cheap. Good place to pick up sandals or shampoo or soap or warmer clothing should he find he needs it.

 

[henrythedog]

One thing you might tell him about is that all the larger towns have what people call "China stores" (I'm not sure that is the best term) which have just about anything you can think of to buy, not always high quality, but very cheap. Good place to pick up sandals or shampoo or soap or warmer clothing should he find he needs it.

Good call.

I think I’ve still got a Lacoste t-shirt from a China store, assuming Mrs HtD hasn’t already found it. It’s probably a limited-edition as the crocodile faces left; but at €5 I couldn’t resist.

Avoid electricals.

 

[C clearly]

I think I’ve still got a Lacoste t-shirt from a China store, assuming Mrs HtD hasn’t already found it.

If she has, it will probably have made its way into my husbands closet!

 

[Anamiri]

Yes! The backpack will be purchased when he is in DC visiting me, so we can just put everything in mine, go to REI, and find a backpack he likes that will hold everything

AS to shoes, I'm thinking of sending him with the three pairs, shower shoes and super light sneakers in the backpack, and if it's too much he can just mail his sneakers ahead

A mug: I have to check how much the bowl actually weights because it's very light. Would a mug be useful outside of food? I'm assuming coffee would be from a cafe, and as such would have its own mug

I did take a light plastic mug the last time, but prior to that I kept and reused a takeaway coffee cup. They disintegrate after a few days but thats fine. (I took my own teabags)

 

[dougfitz]

Yes! The backpack will be purchased when he is in DC visiting me, so we can just put everything in mine, go to REI, and find a backpack he likes that will hold everything

As I said earlier, there has been discussion about this. Some recent posts I made about an approach I recommend can be found here and here.

 

[Rita Flower]

Yes! The backpack will be purchased when he is in DC visiting me, so we can just put everything in mine, go to REI, and find a backpack he likes that will hold everything

AS to shoes, I'm thinking of sending him with the three pairs, shower shoes and super light sneakers in the backpack, and if it's too much he can just mail his sneakers ahead

A mug: I have to check how much the bowl actually weights because it's very light. Would a mug be useful outside of food? I'm assuming coffee would be from a cafe, and as such would have its own mug

Just a thought to add to the onslaught. Haha.

‘Shower shoes’? I have never used them in all my decades of travel. I walk to the shower in bare feet and walk back to my bed/bunk and put on my footwear. Have never ever had any foot disease.

Bowl - a number of albergues have microwaves but no equipment. A light query microwaveable bowl will possibly be very useful.

 

[trecile]

‘Shower shoes’? I have never used them in all my decades of travel. I walk to the shower in bare feet and walk back to my bed/bunk and put on my footwear. Have never ever had any foot disease.

Me too

 

[MaryLynn]

First: I have not walked a camino in winter.
Second: My spring Camino pack is quite a bit lighter than what your cousin carries in clothes alone.
--> so please consider that i might be a bit biased

Just some thoughts:

- 15F sleeping bag might be excessive if you plan on sleeping indoors and the following camping is in a milder area than the galicean mountains
- A dry sac can double as a pillow
- the Zlite and Hammock could be sent ahead
- 2 sets of clothes can be enough. If you have shirts, thermal shirts, puffy etc, you can use a "not perfect" piece as a replacement in most situations. Like wear your rain jacket while your other stuff is drying as a shirt.
- Shirt + thermal shirt + fleece + puffy + vest + rain jacket combined is likely significantly warmer than what i was wearing skiing at -17°C last weekend... i guess you can easily ditch one or two of those.
- my first name translates to Esteban. My swim short weighs about 50g, not 200.
- thermal pants also make for a decent pyjama
- travel size toothpaste cuts a few grams, they sell the stuff in Spain
- 300g Flipflops sounds heavy
- i used a 40g (small) towel. It worked just fine.
- 226g for a first aid kit sounds like a lot. Specially if you have a rescue blanket on top of that.
- the bladder and nalgene likely weigh more than just the water contet.
- I guess the cord is for camping? I would not know what to do with it on a camino otherwise. Same goes for the lantern.
- I do miss some clothes pins, some cream, sun protection and a Credential
- Thats a pretty heavy charger...
- 100g detergent + 90g Shampoo (no soap?) and even conditioner... I used about 60g of Dr.Bronners for the Camino Frances to wash me and my clothes.
- 180g sounds heavy for a 5l dry bag.

As i said, thats just some thoughts. It's likely not all help, but maybe some...

edit: no hiking poles? I would think about that...

I always take only one walking pole - it's lightweight; I only use it for stability on rocky or steep terrain.

 

[dick bird]

Hello everyone, my cousin is planning to do the Camino de Santiago in February, starting February 1 on the Camino Frances. Could you all please help me with a shakedown? It's his first time

Most lists I've found are for summer Caminos, so there's a bunch of extra stuff for winter that I had to include

I’ve listed out his equipment below, but would appreciate help with a shakedown.
Lighterpack available here, starred items are weight estimates
Things I am unsure of are listed at the bottom:

TOTAL WEIGHT: 35 pounds
BASE WEIGHT: 21 pounds



HYGEINE
- Toothbrush
- Toothpaste
- Shampoo
- Conditioner
- Picaridin mosquito repellent (for March)
- Soap
- Detergent
- Quick dry towel

CLOTHES
- 4 pairs of wool socks
- 4 pairs of underwear
- Thermal pants, 2
- Thermal shirts, 2
- Mid-layer warm (like a Patagonia fleece)
- Vest (Columbia down vest)
- Puffy warm jacket (like a Patagonia Nanopuff)
- Gloves (not waterproof, should they be?)
- Hiking pants, 2
- Weatherproof pants, Fjallraven Vidda Pro, waxed for wind resistance
- Hiking shirts, 2
- Relaxing shirts, 2

SHOES
- Flipflops (shower)
- Tennis shoes (hanging out/relaxing shoes)
- Hiking boots

RAIN
- Rain Jacket (goretex)
- Rain pants (goretex)
- Dry bag, 5L
- A safety net for phones and electronics during a rainstorm
- Backpack rain cover


SLEEPING
- Sleeping pad (foam)
- Sleeping bag 15F (30F comfort)
- Camping pillow
- Hammock
- He wants to go camping afterward and will have to carry the hammock throughout, even if he doesn’t use it during the pilgrimage itself

ELECTRONICS
- Phone
- Phone charger
- Portable battery
- Headlamp
- Lantern


KITCHEN
- Eating bowl
- Spork


EMERGENCY KIT
- First aid kit
- Whistle
- Thermal blanket

BACKPACK
- 34L backpack

WATER
- Nalgene 1L
- Backpack hydration 3L

Medical
- Blister bandages

TOOLS
- Swiss Army knife
- Light cord
- Accessory cord
- Carabiners



THINGS I WONDER ABOUT
- 1 flannel shirt
- for warmth and to have a collared shirt for the post-hike travel
- Medium dry bag
- Is it useful? The backpack already has a rain cover

Maybe this thread has run its course, but to give a bit of perspective: 35 lb = 16 kg. I am 70 years old and weigh 73.5 kg.16 kg is exactly what I was carrying at the beginning of an 8 day through hike last week (a lot of it was food, hence a progressive reduction in weight, especially as we ate the chorizo first). OK, the distances were shorter, but the terrain a lot less level than the CF. If I can do that without permanent injury, a fit 30 yr old male shouldn't have too much trouble. And if he does, he can and probably will dump the excess.

As for the 10%, can we unanimously and permanently lay that to rest? Don't take my word for it. Here is some homework reading for you:

Applied Ergonomics: Volume 51, November 2015, Pages 281-290

Schoolbag carriage and schoolbag-related musculoskeletal discomfort among primary school children

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0003687015000927?via=ihub

Schoolkids suffered ‘discomfort’ after carrying 12% or more of their body weight, but the article makes no recommendation as to how much they should carry

-

How Much Should Your Pack Weigh?

Joe Pasteris

“20%” https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/backpacking-weight.html

A website for hikers and backpackers.

-

HIKERS: FIND YOUR BEST BACKPACK WEIGHT

APRIL 16, 2021 SCIENCE CONNECTED EXERCISE

A backpacking/hiking article written by a uni lecturer who takes groups of students on outward bound hikes. He reckons it depends on height and size: smaller people can carry higher percentage, up to 50%

REFERENCE

Oshea, M. (2014). Backpack Weight and the Scaling of the Human Frame. The Physics Teacher,52(8), 479-481. doi:10.1119/1.4897584

ABSTRACT

Modeling real-life situations is an important part of introductory physics. Here we consider the question “What is the largest weight of backpack a hiker can manage?” A quick perusal of the Internet suggests that as the weight of a healthy adult increases, the largest backpack weight 𝑊bpWbp also increases and should be about 25–30% of a person's body weight for a reasonably fit adult.1 We show here that a careful modeling of the hiker and backpack leads to a somewhat different result, with hikers of sufficiently large (but otherwise healthy) weight not being able to carry as much backpack weight as hikers of smaller weight.

P.S. tell him to take exactly half the clothes and 90% of the toiletries.

 

[Kirkie]

Please don't close this thread, it is great fun to read - better than the newspaper!
And I too am terrified of MrsHtD.
OP, well done for staying the course. Your cousin will be the beneficiary - what a great Christmas gift for him.

 

[dick bird]

Just a thought to add to the onslaught. Haha.

‘Shower shoes’? I have never used them in all my decades of travel. I walk to the shower in bare feet and walk back to my bed/bunk and put on my footwear. Have never ever had any foot disease.

Bowl - a number of albergues have microwaves but no equipment. A light query microwaveable bowl will possibly be very useful.

Same here re footgear. Mind you, I've seen how much antiseptic and detergent a Spanish hospitalero throws at a shower stall every morning.

 

[DBC]

Hi, I'll just comment on a few things because you've already had a lot of good suggestions to go through. I am a backpacker (PCT), but have never needed a pillow. You can stuff your down (or other puffy) jacket into the top of your sleeping bag. If you are taking rain pants, you don't need waterproof pants. You might test your backpack in the shower and determine if it is waterproof--my guess is it would be resistant for a while, but wet through soon enough (I would carry the cover). You don't need two containers for water. If at some point you decide you want a small container, buy a soft drink and reuse it for the rest of the hike. Lantern seems like a luxury item. I would carry a Smartwool top and bottoms and leave the undershirts behind. Smartwool can be worn for days without stinking and are warmer, whereas most shirts need washing often. I'm not sure you would ever need so many layers at one time--a shirt, vest, fleece jacket, puffy, and rainjacket. If you are doing the entire Frances, I recommend a hiker's umbrella. Yes, you have raingear, but it's still not pleasant to have rain pouring on your head and hitting you in the face.

Maybe this thread has run its course, but to give a bit of perspective: 35 lb = 16 kg. I am 70 years old and weigh 73.5 kg.16 kg is exactly what I was carrying at the beginning of an 8 day through hike last week (a lot of it was food, hence a progressive reduction in weight, especially as we ate the chorizo first). OK, the distances were shorter, but the terrain a lot less level than the CF. If I can do that without permanent injury, a fit 30 yr old male shouldn't have too much trouble. And if he does, he can and probably will dump the excess.

As for the 10%, can we unanimously and permanently lay that to rest? Don't take my word for it. Here is some homework reading for you:

Applied Ergonomics: Volume 51, November 2015, Pages 281-290

Schoolbag carriage and schoolbag-related musculoskeletal discomfort among primary school children

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0003687015000927?via=ihub

Schoolkids suffered ‘discomfort’ after carrying 12% or more of their body weight, but the article makes no recommendation as to how much they should carry

-

How Much Should Your Pack Weigh?

Joe Pasteris

“20%” https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/backpacking-weight.html

A website for hikers and backpackers.

-

HIKERS: FIND YOUR BEST BACKPACK WEIGHT

APRIL 16, 2021 SCIENCE CONNECTED EXERCISE

A backpacking/hiking article written by a uni lecturer who takes groups of students on outward bound hikes. He reckons it depends on height and size: smaller people can carry higher percentage, up to 50%

REFERENCE

Oshea, M. (2014). Backpack Weight and the Scaling of the Human Frame. The Physics Teacher,52(8), 479-481. doi:10.1119/1.4897584

ABSTRACT

Modeling real-life situations is an important part of introductory physics. Here we consider the question “What is the largest weight of backpack a hiker can manage?” A quick perusal of the Internet suggests that as the weight of a healthy adult increases, the largest backpack weight 𝑊bpWbp also increases and should be about 25–30% of a person's body weight for a reasonably fit adult.1 We show here that a careful modeling of the hiker and backpack leads to a somewhat different result, with hikers of sufficiently large (but otherwise healthy) weight not being able to carry as much backpack weight as hikers of smaller weight.

P.S. tell him to take exactly half the clothes and 90% of the toiletries.

Great post! Not sure that it will put all of the “10% absolute” demons to bed, but hopefully tones it down to a “10% is a good place to think about, but many other factors will influence your final pack weight”.

 

[frank rawley]

In general pack weight and fun are inversely related. Less pack weight = more fun and more pack weight = less fun. Light is Right! We are pilgrims not pack mules. We tend to carry too much gear out of fear. We fear that we are going to be uncomfortable or cold or hungry or injured or our gear is going to fail and we need backups. Just take enough! The Camino provides!

 

[Former member 92300]

UPDATE:

NEW BASE WEIGHT: 15 pounds
NEW TOTAL WEIGHT: 25 pounds (6 pounds worn clothes, 4 pounds 2L water)

Updated Lighterpack link here

ELIMINATE:

• One thermal shirt
• One thermal pant
• Lantern
• Vest
• Weatherproof pants
• Conditioner
• Hammock (ship)
• Hammock straps (ship)
• Sleeping pad (ship)
• Accessory cord
• Flannel
• 2 kilos of water
• SealLine Dry Sack
• Repellent
• 15F sleeping bag (add 30F sleeping bag)
• First aid: swap .7 for .3
• 1 pair wool socks (leave two boot, one calf)
• Extra blister dressing

ADD

• Change shirts to: 1 wool t shirt, 1 collared hiking shirt, 2 t shirts
• 3L ultralight dry sack (phone/electronics) 20L ultralight dry sack (sleeping bag, clothes)
• Ziplock bag: to hold soap and shampoo after showering
• Seat pad
• 30F sleeping bag (saves 440 grams/1pound)
• Sleeping bag liner (adds 220 grams, for nights without heat)

NOTES

• The shampoo is solid shampoo
• To the people recommending sandals as comfort and bath shoes, can sandals really be worn outdoors in February? He is from Juarez, the desert, and while our winters do get down to freezing he is not accustomed to cold temperatures
• Keeping 4 shirts and 4 pairs of underwear
• Keeping detergent. One bottle is 100 grams
• Something to keep in mind is that the trip is expensive enough as is. Yes it’s cheaper than a 40 day hostel tour of Europe, but it’s still a solid $1,000 USD for the Camino by itself. If he can save money by carrying a small bottle of detergent concentrate and extra shirts and underwear then it helps him do the camino
• Keeping the 3L water bladder BUT subtracting 2 kilos of water weight, he can simply fill it up partway after learning how much water he drinks in a standard day
• Starred items are weight estimates, I have not had a chance to weigh everything so some things may be wildly off, like the flip-flops

A sincere thank you to everyone who has been helpful with this, I'm glad I am able to present him curated information thanks to you all's winter experience

Looking better! He will probably find other items to ditch once he is walking - he can donate or mail home if that is the case.

In March - you can wear sandals with socks or a very lightweight afternoon shoe. No matter what shoe you bring - it is good for it to be a shoe you can hike in in case your hiking shoes have an issue. For that - I use Teva or Xero sandals - and yes - I wear them with socks even in the summer since my feet are so work from walking (cushions them and provides warmth. I prefer hiking sandals myself as my extra shoe because they are usually lighter than any other shoe and I can hike in them if I need to. I don't bring a flip flop - but my choice of sandals can be used in the shower if needed. They dry plenty fast.

Just a thought - if he wants to sit - he doesn't need a seat pad. A few people like them but totally unnecessary weight. I sat on the ground if no chairs were available or sometimes even on my bag - but I could have just as easily sat on a piece of clothing or my towel or something. Anyhow - I bought sit pads for backpacking trips and never end up bringing them and never regretted that choice. Just saying this because it wouldn't have been something I would have ADDED while trying to lighten the load.

And if he really wants that detergent - then fine - but honestly just as easy to wash with the bar of soap. But really came to say - if he is bringing it for the times he machine washes - totally unnecessary as almost every time you pay for a machine wash - detergent is almost always provided. Only had to pay 1 Euro for detergent ONCE in Spain - the rest of the time it is either pre-loaded into the machine or simply provided. And hand washing is free and can be done with a shampoo bar - which would eliminate the need for the extra shirts. But this is his pack so if he wants extra shirts and extra detergent then of course he can bring them.

 

[davebugg]

How Much Should Your Pack Weigh?

Joe Pasteris

“20%” https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/backpacking-weight.html

A website for hikers and backpackers.

Nice research, Dick.

If I may make an observation, the guidelines in the REI article refer to wilderness backpacking where all food and camping and survival issues are part of the activity. Because the Camino is not a wilderness hike, it is safe to say that the majority of a backpack's weight for backpacking is not needed at all.. . . tents, heavier sleeping bags, air mattress, cooking gear (stoves, cooking pots, fuel, etc) food for meals, etc.

The one thing I enjoy on Camino is how light my backpack is from what I carry in the wilderness. Walking from town to town gives a lot more freedom to leave stuff behind.

 

[davebugg]

10% rule is a good place to start. And then whittle down from there.

 

[davebugg]

A couple of changes to the gear include now using a Gossamer Gear Silverback, which is a modified design of the Gossamer Gear Gorilla, instead of the Mariposa. No real change to the weight, though.

I will also mention that what I carry IN my backpack does not include what I am wearing. Skin Out weight is meaningless in terms of how the body handles a backpack load vs what is worn ON the body itself. Besides, unless one backpacks stark raving naked, there is no need to count clothing as part of the backpack load.

For planning, what counts is the backpacks Base Weight (everything in the pack + the pack, but not consumables). I CAN carry up to three liters of water, but I only count the weight of the device that HOLDS the water, since the water I add will vary and be consumed, therefore less weight, as the day progresses.

 

[dougfitz]

10% rule is a good place to start. And then whittle down from there.

I don't think this is particularly good advice for someone undertaking a winter camino. If there is anything I have observed here, it is that there is no 10% rule, and if you do want to use it at a rule of thumb, it is really only relevant for a summer camino. I wrote this back in 2015 when asked what I thought authoritative sources for pack weight might be, and more recently noted this in response to a similar question recently. The link to the CSJ advice is still live.

For planning, what counts is the backpacks Base Weight (everything in the pack + the pack, but not consumables). I CAN carry up to three liters of water, but I only count the weight of the device that HOLDS the water, since the water I add will vary and be consumed, therefore less weight, as the day progresses.

This appears to completely miss the point of using a from the skin out approach to weight targets. One great advantage of using an FSO target is that it doesn't change from season to season, unlike base weight targets, and the very fact that it includes consumables and worn items allows meaningful trade-offs to be made between the three, base weight items, consumables and worn items. It quickly becomes obvious what effect wearing a boot in winter might be if it weighs and extra four or five hundred grams, and whether reducing the amount of shampoo and conditioner might compensate for that if one needs to stay within one's FSO target.

There has been quite a lot of discussion about this over the years. Here is a link to other comments I have made over time. They are still as relevant today.

In all of this, if you want to walk far, fast, or both, make sure the weight you carry is kept as low as you can.

 

[Rita Flower]

Looking better! He will probably find other items to ditch once he is walking - he can donate or mail home if that is the case.

In March - you can wear sandals with socks or a very lightweight afternoon shoe. No matter what shoe you bring - it is good for it to be a shoe you can hike in in case your hiking shoes have an issue. For that - I use Teva or Xero sandals - and yes - I wear them with socks even in the summer since my feet are so work from walking (cushions them and provides warmth. I prefer hiking sandals myself as my extra shoe because they are usually lighter than any other shoe and I can hike in them if I need to. I don't bring a flip flop - but my choice of sandals can be used in the shower if needed. They dry plenty fast.

Just a thought - if he wants to sit - he doesn't need a seat pad. A few people like them but totally unnecessary weight. I sat on the ground if no chairs were available or sometimes even on my bag - but I could have just as easily sat on a piece of clothing or my towel or something. Anyhow - I bought sit pads for backpacking trips and never end up bringing them and never regretted that choice. Just saying this because it wouldn't have been something I would have ADDED while trying to lighten the load.

And if he really wants that detergent - then fine - but honestly just as easy to wash with the bar of soap. But really came to say - if he is bringing it for the times he machine washes - totally unnecessary as almost every time you pay for a machine wash - detergent is almost always provided. Only had to pay 1 Euro for detergent ONCE in Spain - the rest of the time it is either pre-loaded into the machine or simply provided. And hand washing is free and can be done with a shampoo bar - which would eliminate the need for the extra shirts. But this is his pack so if he wants extra shirts and extra detergent then of course he can bring them.

Ditto re washing machines - although they cost €3+to use. And I think the cousin is on a budget.
Mid Camino this year when I ran out of my own supplies I purchased a small shampoo which I used to wash hair, body and clothes.
But I didn’t wash clothes every day (just daily socks and undies) as I had merino shirts and trekking pants that didn’t smell.
One of the gifts of the Camino is that you pat down everything to essentials and realise one needs very little to live and be happy.
Blessing to you and your cousin
PS Can’t praise merino tops enough - I had three layers of various weights. Temps went down to 1C. I was never cold when I saw others who were.