Scam?

[CaptBuddy]

On the way out of Logroño a couple of days ago, we were approached by a man who was walking toward Logroño. He claimed to be a long distance pilgrim, with a quick but elaborate story about his travels. He said his credit card had been destroyed in an ATM, and he was being required to walk back to Madrid to his embassy (German) to get a replacement card. Said he only had 6 euros in his pocket. He was well groomed and outfitted like a pilgrim.
I was suspicious of him and his story, so bid him good luck and we walked on. It was a remote section, but he did not follow or bother us again.

Over the past days, I have asked others about seeing him and several people have shared similar encounters, all with the same elaborate story and even report seeing the broken credit card. He was even seen in Logroño talking with several groups in a couple of different languages. He never asked anyone for money, and did not threaten anyone. But this seems to be a scam of some sort, folks I spoke with agree.

I don't think it is cause for alarm. I don't think he is dangerous. I may alert the police today. Be careful.

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

Definitely scam for reasons given

First of all ATM´s don´t destroy credit cards bank employees do. Second don´t know of any embassy which reissues a credit card. They do issues passports,visas, etc but not a credit card.

Ondo Ibili !

 

[mspath]

Such techniques are unfortunately universal. I, too, may have been scammed on the Camino most memorably during late February 2006 in what I later called The Snow Job. It all began late one stormy night in the Villafranca Montes de Oca municipal albergue and lasted for several weeks!! You can read about it here

In retrospect I still do not want to believe that I was milked for money in a real snow job! Hopefully all was not just a ruse and I had not been duped. At least what I did was done in the Camino spirit of trust and mutual assistance. I still firmly believe one must act towards others “as ye would that men should do to you”. Nevertheless BE WARY!

Margaret Meredith

 

[tyrrek]

I doubt that he was hoping for any more than a few euros towards food and lodgings, so in that sense it's probably just an elaborate form of begging. Then it's up to you how you respond.

The only way I can see this as a scam is if he uses the interaction (and you getting your wallet out) to identify who is carrying a lot of cash and where they're carrying it. Then he or an accomplice 'retrieves' it later eg in an albergue.

Always be careful. Always be kind. He could be Jesus.

 

[NicoZ]

He never asked anyone for money,
.

Okay maybe he was counting on people having a sense of guilt or other feelings but if he didn't ask for money it isn't a very efficient scam.

I could see the bank sending the card to the embassy for pick up. It doesn't sound like he had a hotel or other address in Spain. How was he supposed to get a replacement? Air drop?

I admit I would have been suspicions but then that's normal for me -)

Telling people a sob story and asking for bus fare etc isn't an unusual small con but it requires asking for the money.

 

[MichaelB10398]

The possibility of this being a scam is irrelevant. We are often presented with decisions in life and we have to choose how we will react. We either act appropriately or not. If I have determined that I am acting with a good heart then I am done with the situation. I don't expect anything in return and should someone take advantage of my desire to choose the right then any bad karma from such an action is on them; again, not my problem.

Last week in Doha I was stopped by a young Indian fellow. At first he made a request for funds and quickly began to share a story of woe and harsh challenge. I stopped him and asked him what he wanted. I did not have a lot of time, but he finally stated that he was in need of funds to return to India. I opened my wallet, knowing that I was not carrying an abundance of cash, and gave him all I had. He thanked me and I moved on. Afterward I thought that maybe this was not valid situation of need, but I don't see how I could have done differently. If there was need, I was able to aid him. If there was not need, I think still chose the better path.

The only question I have to consider is how much can I afford to give. With as much pain there is in the world if we can be a source of relief of any degree of that pain then we have done a good thing.

 

[David]

just a new begging story - I'm sure he is fine and enjoying himself. Credit card companies would set something up with the local bank.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Scam.

Encouraging the behavior is your choice. Whether it is charity is your decision.

 

[Olivares]

First off, the closest office that deals with German citizenship issues if in Logrono is the Consulate in San Sebastian. That's where the German Embassy in Madrid will send citizens. Second, as well noted above, they do not issue replacement credit cards. If somebody is obviously lying to me while asking for money I don't see how the better answer is to encourage him/her to continue doing so by handing it over. If is not that obvious, then whatever comes from your heart is the right answer; whether is to help or not.

 

[CaptBuddy]

I take exception to some of you second guessing me and others who dealt with this man face-to-face. On the same day, I left a very generous donativo for another person trying to help himself and others.

The man I described was healthy, very fit, had a military bearing, and was armed with a combat style knife. He was not destitute, or homeless, nor did he appear without some means of taking care of himself. He told the same practiced story to 4 different people that I spoke to. All of whom seemed to me to be good honest generous people. They all were leery of this man and all had the same opinion.

I am almost 67 years old and I know how banks and departments of state work. I also know that if you do not directly ask for money you can plausibly deny you were running a scam.

Trusting or not, good or bad is not in question here. I'm just hoping to forwarn others who may run into this man in the near future.

 

[Mark Lee]

Just a hustler trying to make some quick cash. Dress the part. Make up a good story, and get to work hustling. Make a few extra euros everyday to buy booze, dope, etc.
They are also very good at choosing who they approach. They have certain age groups, etc in mind. A form of profiling.

 

[tyrrek]

I take exception to some of you second guessing me and others who dealt with this man face-to-face. On the same day, I left a very generous donativo for another person trying to help himself and others.

The man I described was healthy, very fit, had a military bearing, and was armed with a combat style knife. He was not destitute, or homeless, nor did he appear without some means of taking care of himself. He told the same practiced story to 4 different people that I spoke to. All of whom seemed to me to be good honest generous people. They all were leery of this man and all had the same opinion.

I am almost 67 years old and I know how banks and departments of state work. I also know that if you do not directly ask for money you can plausibly deny you were running a scam.

Trusting or not, good or bad is not in question here. I'm just hoping to forwarn others who may run into this man in the near future.

Sorry you took exception. I don't see an kind of personal attack on you. You may know what the procedures are for banks and credit cards but those you are warning may not. Others are just filling any gaps or doubts that may be left in your original post. Nor is anyone questioning your personal attitude towards begging, which you don't state.
Maybe the word Scam means different things to different people.

In your original post you say that you don't think he's dangerous, but in the second he 'had a military bearing, and was armed with a combat style knife'. Maybe there's an element of intimidation that distinguishes this from an otherwise forgettable begging experience, but if you don't say so outright people will second guess.

 

[simply B]

Hey, Cap!

It's a scam.

I ran into this character both Fall of 2012 and this past Spring. Others have as well - - see post #25 and on in link below:

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/warning-reports-of-scam-in-galicia.18855/

I would have to say that the "combat style knife" is new to me. He's stepping up his game.

B

 

[CaptBuddy]

I doubt that he was hoping for any more than a few euros towards food and lodgings, so in that sense it's probably just an elaborate form of begging. Then it's up to you how you respond.

The only way I can see this as a scam is if he uses the interaction (and you getting your wallet out) to identify who is carrying a lot of cash and where they're carrying it. Then he or an accomplice 'retrieves' it later eg in an albergue.

Always be careful. Always be kind. He could be Jesus.

Tyrrek, you didn't second guess my story, you made up a gang of thieves. Along with your own concocted story about how someone lives.
There is a difference between being kind, honest and generous, and being a victim.
My initial post contained what information a prudent person might need.
The matter is done for me, I'm well past Logroño.

 

[tyrrek]

Tyrrek, you didn't second guess my story, you made up a gang of thieves. Along with your own concocted story about how someone lives.
There is a difference between being kind, honest and generous, and being a victim.
My initial post contained what information a prudent person might need.
The matter is done for me, I'm well past Logroño.

Done for me too. Enjoy the rest of your Camino.

 

[grayland]

This is a story that pops up every so often. Always an ATM card that was destroyed or eaten in some way .
Some of the facts differ as to how he is going to replace the card.
He always only has a few euro to get by.
It seems that the object is to get kind hearted pilgrims to offer some money.
Sometimes (last year or earlier this year) he operates in albergues along the way.
May be different guys but too much of a coincidence to be anything but a scam of some type.
Be aware and react as you care too.

 

[jumpingin2014]

thanks for posting this ........ the more we are aware of scams the better we are equipped to protect ourselves.

 

[Scott Sweeney]

Sounds very similar to a man we met while leaving Leon in the spring 2013. We just thought what if it was us who needed help. Gave him a couple euros andoved on, he was polite.

 

[Dr. Don]

On the way out of Logroño a couple of days ago, we were approached by a man who was walking toward Logroño. He claimed to be a long distance pilgrim, with a quick but elaborate story about his travels. He said his credit card had been destroyed in an ATM, and he was being required to walk back to Madrid to his embassy (German) to get a replacement card. Said he only had 6 euros in his pocket. He was well groomed and outfitted like a pilgrim.
I was suspicious of him and his story, so bid him good luck and we walked on. It was a remote section, but he did not follow or bother us again.

Over the past days, I have asked others about seeing him and several people have shared similar encounters, all with the same elaborate story and even report seeing the broken credit card. He was even seen in Logroño talking with several groups in a couple of different languages. He never asked anyone for money, and did not threaten anyone. But this seems to be a scam of some sort, folks I spoke with agree.

I don't think it is cause for alarm. I don't think he is dangerous. I may alert the police today. Be careful.

The best thing any of us can do is offer a prayer and blessing! So much more valuable than money. It is the power of the Camino
Don

 

[DurhamParish]

Had a long discussion on what I wager is the same guy back a few months ago.

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/pilgrims-asking-for-money.27029/#post-221784

 

[november_moon]

Sounds very similar to the beggars we have around here that are always looking for "bus fare" - they have a sob story, some reason that they are penniless right now, but will be ok if they can just get to Los Angeles, Portland, or wherever. One guy not far from my house has been trying to get Fresno for a couple months now.

 

[Madidi]

I met a German guy as I was leaving Leon early one morning in Sept 2012: he was walking back into the city and as I recall, he had a story about his card and an ATM machine. His story at that time, was that he had damaged it when he panicked while trying to retrieve it after it stuck partly in the machine. He was probably in his fifties, looked distraught and I don't recall him asking for any money nor can I remember if I gave him any or not (but probably did).

As we all do, he has to live with his actions.

Take care, be safe.

S.

 

[adesmar123]

The possibility of this being a scam is irrelevant. We are often presented with decisions in life and we have to choose how we will react. We either act appropriately or not. If I have determined that I am acting with a good heart then I am done with the situation. I don't expect anything in return and should someone take advantage of my desire to choose the right then any bad karma from such an action is on them; again, not my problem.

Last week in Doha I was stopped by a young Indian fellow. At first he made a request for funds and quickly began to share a story of woe and harsh challenge. I stopped him and asked him what he wanted. I did not have a lot of time, but he finally stated that he was in need of funds to return to India. I opened my wallet, knowing that I was not carrying an abundance of cash, and gave him all I had. He thanked me and I moved on. Afterward I thought that maybe this was not valid situation of need, but I don't see how I could have done differently. If there was need, I was able to aid him. If there was not need, I think still chose the better path.

The only question I have to consider is how much can I afford to give. With as much pain there is in the world if we can be a source of relief of any degree of that pain then we have done a good thing.

He probably had a need for alchohol or drugs. You helped him go deeper into his problems. But feel good, you helped him.

 

[ebrandt]

So interesting! We walked the Frances in April 2014. As we walked into Logrono we met a guy (about 45-50 or so) who was frantic and told us the exact same story. We completely fell for it, but we didn't have any cash to help. We would have given him some in a minute if we had! OUr experience is so similar to your it has to be some sort of a scam!

 

[Anniesantiago]

This is a familiar scam.
It's up there with the 'deaf' gypsy girls asking you to sign petitions and give money.
All the while they're pickpocketing you.
Unfortunately, the Camino is becoming a hotspot picnic place for the vultures.
If you meet such an unfortunate person, direct them to the nearest albergue where the locals can sort it out.
My advice is to say, "Oh gosh, I'm so sorry." and just keep walking.

 

[MileHighPair]

We saw him today as we were leaving Logrono. He is a total scam, his boots did not even have a scuff on them. We did not let it ruin our day, but anyone who thinks guy is in legitimate need has not met him. We would seek generosity for those in true need. Not this guy.

 

[vgen5122]

It is too bad that scams like these sometimes go against the pilgrim that may have gotton his money stolen or lost his bank card etc. I think the best thing you can do is to not give money. Do give a meal or pay the albergue for the night. We heard the story of a pilgrim who got his money stolen 1/2 through the Camino Frances. While he was Telling us his story he broke down And stated how appreciative he was for the kindness and generosity of the pilgrims that he got to know on the road. Fortunately, he completed his Camino and return to California. I just wanted to tell a story about a young man who had no one in Spain and did not scam people on the journey. I do believe that unfornately every pilgrim has to be aware of scams on the Camino. Buen Camino.

 

[MichaelB10398]

He probably had a need for alchohol or drugs. You helped him go deeper into his problems. But feel good, you helped him.

I think you have misunderstood my position. I was not particularly addressing this individual or particular scam. I lived in Seattle for many years and as those who know this city can testify it has its share of professional beggars. I am not talking about those individuals who beg professionally or propagate a scam if you will. I was addressing those individuals who appear to be in real need but which I was not absolutely positive of the need. It appears that you might be capable of differentiating between the two much better than me and I am amazed at your ability to do so.

As for me, and many like me, when we really cannot tell between the professional beggar and the poor individual in need, I will try to provide assistance to the degree I can afford. I particularly like the idea offered above of providing a free meal to a fellow pilgrim or even a cup of coffee.

Given your awesome ability to distinguish between those in true need and those who are running a scam, I am sure you can understand the distinction I try to make. If not, then I will proceed with just trying to be a source of peace in the world....and one that is not afraid to stand my ground in the hopes that some individual in true need will not be turned away and a prayer that you are never that individual. Good day.

 

[Mark Lee]

Unfortunately human parasites are drawn to victim rich environments like the Camino. They see kindness as a weakness. They know that a lot of the pilgrims may be a little naive or not so cautious, and I'm sure they have certain type(s) of pilgrims in their minds that they know they will be more successful with.
It bothers me when I hear of pilgrims that have been victimized by scams or thefts. To have their Camino experience be ruined or negatively affected because some idiot decided stealing from a pilgrim is an easy source of income in order to buy drugs, alcohol, etc.

 

[Kanga]

Its a scam. Genuine misadventures are not elaborate. "My wallet was stolen" or "the ATM won't take my card" don't need explanation.
Whether you give to a scam or not is a whole different question.

 

[Anniesantiago]

There are social services in Spain for people in need, just like there are in the USA.
I like the idea of offering to pay for the albergue for the night or for buying the person a bocadillo.
But giving cash? Probably not.

Although, now that I've said this, I did meet a young man on my first Aragones Route who was having bank problems.
He was an American, and just asked for $20 to get him to the next town.
I heard his story - his bank had put a hold on his card and he was having difficulty getting it sorted out.
I decided to throw caution to the wind (my instincts felt he was truthful) and I handed him 200 Euros.
He did not ask for that much - I just figured that would get him to Pamplona.
He said, "No no no, I only need 20" but I knew that wouldn't get him far enough.

Everyone in the albergue warned, "You'll never see that money again."
I shrugged.
Years ago, someone did me a kindness and it was about $200 worth.
I figured if I lost it, I was paying it back.

A couple of weeks later, I was in Los Arcos in the albergue in bed, when someone came in asking, "Is there an Annie Carvalho here?"
I said yes.
They said, "There is a man out here who wants to talk to you."

I went out and it was the American young man.
He handed me my 200 Euros.

I was impressed.
He had gone to several albergues trying to find me and pay me once his situation was sorted.

So… I guess the answer I'd give is to follow your gut.

It was in this same albergue where I met a Camino Angel years later - a homeless man who healed my broken hand with his touch.

 

[JoeNYC]

I came across this fellow a week ago. He's a criminal- short and sweet. Anyone who creates a fraudulent story to prey upon the goodwil of others is a criminal.

His story about the ATM eating his card made no sense, he said he was walking back from Finesterre even though his clothes and backpack were brand new and he was wearing a rather expensive watch.

 

[Dreamwalker33]

On the way out of Logroño a couple of days ago, we were approached by a man who was walking toward Logroño. He claimed to be a long distance pilgrim, with a quick but elaborate story about his travels. He said his credit card had Beene destroyed in an ATM, and he was being required to walk back to Madrid to his embassy (German) to get a replacement card. Said he only had 6 euros in his pocket. He was well groomed and outfitted like a pilgrim.
I was suspicious of him and his story, so bid him good luck and we walked on. It was a remote section, but he did not follow or bother us again.

Over the past days, I have asked others about seeing him and several people have shared similar encounters, all with the same elaborate story and even report seeing the broken credit card. He was even seen in Logroño talking with several groups in a couple of different languages. He never asked anyone for money, and did not threaten anyone. But this seems to be a scam of some sort, folks I spoke with agree.

I don't think it is cause for alarm. I don't think he is dangerous. I may alert the police today. Be careful.

We may have seen the same man waiting at the train station in Bayonne earlier this August. He was from Germany, couldn't get help from the embassy, flashed us his broken credit cards and blurry photos he'd taken - told us he had already been to Santiago and trying to get home. He didn't outright ask us for money, but I noted he had very expensive hiking gear and about 50 yrs of age. In one hour he'd got all but 6 euros needed for his ticket home, so we were told,

 

[tpmchugh]

On the way out of Logroño a couple of days ago, we were approached by a man who was walking toward Logroño. He claimed to be a long distance pilgrim, with a quick but elaborate story about his travels. He said his credit card had been destroyed in an ATM, and he was being required to walk back to Madrid to his embassy (German) to get a replacement card. Said he only had 6 euros in his pocket. He was well groomed and outfitted like a pilgrim.
I was suspicious of him and his story, so bid him good luck and we walked on. It was a remote section, but he did not follow or bother us again.

Over the past days, I have asked others about seeing him and several people have shared similar encounters, all with the same elaborate story and even report seeing the broken credit card. He was even seen in Logroño talking with several groups in a couple of different languages. He never asked anyone for money, and did not threaten anyone. But this seems to be a scam of some sort, folks I spoke with agree.

I don't think it is cause for alarm. I don't think he is dangerous. I may alert the police today. Be careful.

You met him then. He was there March 2013 on the way into Logroño and a few days later outside Najera. The only difference is that back then he was trying to get to Vigo and yes, I say the shredded card. He told us of a free albergue but the f****ing priest would not let him in. I knew it was a scam but just in case that on an outside chance he was down on his luck, I gave him € 5. And as you say, he never asked for anything. When we met him again in Najera we asked him how it was going and was he any nearer to Vigo. Realising he was rumbled he said something to us in German. I dont speak the language but I just knew it was something nasty by the tone. Wonder how much he has made in the past year . I mention him in my book so he will be hoping not too many read it thus ending his livlihood lol

 

[Dreamwalker33]

You met him then. He was there March 2013 on the way into Logroño and a few days later outside Najera. The only difference is that back then he was trying to get to Vigo and yes, I say the shredded card. He told us of a free albergue but the f****ing priest would not let him in. I knew it was a scam but just in case that on an outside chance he was down on his luck, I gave him € 5. And as you say, he never asked for anything. When we met him again in Najera we asked him how it was going and was he any nearer to Vigo. Realising he was rumbled he said something to us in German. I dont speak the language but I just knew it was something nasty by the tone. Wonder how much he has made in the past year . I mention him in my book so he will be hoping not too many read it thus ending his livlihood lol[/QUOTE

Another scam???
Also, about a day after (end of September) Sarria, we came upon a pair of local gals using sign language, holding a clip board for us to sign, fill in our name and the amount of donation we would give for the deaf & blind. I just knew it was a scam, as I'd heard of this here on the forum and also noted the paper on their clipboard had nothing official on it, like their organization, phone numbers, etc., just a simple text that anyone could come up with.

 

[jeffnd]

I think we ran into this guy as we were coming into Pamplona. I didn't hear the first part of the story, but I remember him saying he didn't have any bus fare to get to the embassy it was quicker to walk to Bordeaux than to Madrid. (In hind sight, do either of those places actually have German embassies?) I believe he said he has walked from Germany (or somewhere really far away) He showed us several pilgrim passports as proof of his journey. A couple people in our group gave him some cash, and I would have, but I didn't have any on me.

Later in the Camino, I was approached by another "pilgrim" who came up to me with his hand out. I just said, "no money" and "I don't speak Spanish." My walking companion translated what he was saying. He wanted money to stay at the albergue. I thought of all the scrimping and saving I had done and how much overtime I had put in to be able to walk the Camino. And it just did not seem fair that he was out there begging for a free ride off of my hard work. As we ate dinner, he stood near our table and kept saying, "Good pilgrims, nice pilgrims." (I'm assuming he was being sarcastic, since it was my friend translating.)

I wanted to be the pilgrim that helped others. I still want to. Terrible things happen to pilgrims while walking. It must be awful to have something like that happen and be in a foreign country and just feeling helpless. It makes me so angry that people take advantage of that! My budget was very tight on the Camino. I couldn't afford to pay anyone else's way.

 

[Kanga]

I think it is sad when scams create real victims. The charitable spirit that prevails on the Camino is bound to attract swindlers. I'm a skeptic having represented panhandlers and fraudsters. I prefer to choose my charity.

However I've just entertained myself for half an hour reading the Wikipedia entry for "confidence tricks". The ingenuity of humans is amazing!

 

[marbuck]

Always be careful. Always be kind. He could be Jesus.

I like what you said. He could have been Jesus. What a wonderful thing to say.

 

[Tia Valeria]

Share a meal, pay for a bed in the albergue, maybe buy the bus/train ticket to the next place but not give money. The genuine will be appreciative, the scammers will learn to look elswhere. Yes, we can 'entertain angels unaware', but Jesus while accepting hospitality did not ask for money and he gave - feeding of the 5,000 comes to mind.
Our work background taught us to give help but not cash.

 

[bystander]

Share a meal, pay for a bed in the albergue, maybe buy the bus/train ticket to the next place but not give money. The genuine will be appreciative, the scammers will learn to look elswhere. Yes, we can 'entertain angels unaware', but Jesus while accepting hospitality did not ask for money and he gave - feeding of the 5,000 comes to mind.
Our work background taught us to give help but not cash.

Well put, Tia Valeria.

 

[scruffy1]

There are far too many people around us who have fallen from thre train of life and will probably never quite make it back on board, 1977 and a rock band sang-you know it for sure:
"Life goin' nowhere.
Somebody help me.
Somebody help me, yeah.
Life goin' nowhere.
Somebody help me, yeah.
Stayin' alive Staying alive"
Everyone must find his/her own way-it works for some others not so me should really allow them that.

 

[hieudovan]

On the lighter side... A relative of mine is currently walking his second camino, the CP. Before leaving he sent his family and friends an email announcing his departure. He then jokingly added that if they ever receive an email from him asking for money because he had lost all of his money and passport, don't send any. His wife will be the person that he would contact in case of emergency. It's an in joke. The past few months our family members have received emails from supposedly other family members who had lost their money and passports in the Philippines, Hong Kong, Africa, etc... We all had a great laugh and wished him Bom Caminho.

 

[Kanga]

I have given street people my sandwiches, bought breakfast and lunches, given my warm parka, and always conversation and smiles and, critically, respect. On camino I might pay for accommodation or buy someone a meal or purchase a bus ticket. But money - only to researched charity or those whose circumstances I know.

Giving money to people is not simply a benign action without consequences.

Consider my panhandler client who was entitled to and received a disability pension. She refused publicly funded permanent accommodation, social support and medical treatment for her rampant diabetes because it would limit the time she could spend begging. She preferred to remain homeless and sleep near her "spot". She was making almost $80,000 a year from well intentioned people. Those handouts kept her in thrall to her "handler", to whom she gave most of the money. They kept her on the streets in winter conditions, and eventually led to her premature death.

Consider the children in India who are deliberately maimed to make them more valuable as beggars. Consider the "orphanages" in Cambodia whose operators have bought or stolen children from their impoverished families. Well meaning volunteers pay to work in these orphanages, tourists support them. Western consciences have created an ugly trade whose currency is children.

"He could have been Jesus". "Or the Devil".

 

[marbuck]

You are right Kanga, he could have been the "Devil". It is an option we all must choose at some time. Sometimes we make the right call, sometimes we don't.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Sometimes we make the right call, sometimes we don't.

When it is a 100% chance that it is a scam, the right call is easy to make.

 

[Heikki]

We saw him 21st June 2012 in Leon early in the morning, he told us that he was a german pilgrim with damaged credit card and was going to German embassy in Madrid or Barcelona. He wasn't asking us money and so we didn't offer him any, just listened to his story and wished him good luck. I guess that we missed his hints for giving him money, but we are scandinavians and used to people telling us what they want.

 

[Dreamwalker33]

I have given street people my sandwiches, bought breakfast and lunches, given my warm parka, and always conversation and smiles and, critically, respect. On camino I might pay for accommodation or buy someone a meal or purchase a bus ticket. But money - only to researched charity or those whose circumstances I know.

Giving money to people is not simply a benign action without consequences.

Consider my panhandler client who was entitled to and received a disability pension. She refused publicly funded permanent accommodation, social support and medical treatment for her rampant diabetes because it would limit the time she could spend begging. She preferred to remain homeless and sleep near her "spot". She was making almost $80,000 a year from well intentioned people. Those handouts kept her in thrall to her "handler", to whom she gave most of the money. They kept her on the streets in winter conditions, and eventually led to her premature death.

Consider the children in India who are deliberately maimed to make them more valuable as beggars. Consider the "orphanages" in Cambodia whose operators have bought or stolen children from their impoverished families. Well meaning volunteers pay to work in these orphanages, tourists support them. Western consciences have created an ugly trade whose currency is children.

"He could have been Jesus". "Or the Devil".

We were told by our young taxi driver in Santiago, after asking if the under-nourished young girl curled up on the ground in the pouring rain with her hands out, begging for money was a scam or truly in need. He told us that she is a scam, that she is controlled by the Mafia. If she runs away or tries to leave, the Mafia will kill her family. Locals know this and police know this and no one helps them. Looking into their eyes, you can see they have lost hope and are in a living hell. I told our driver that I had wanted to at least give her our unbrella -- He said that they would just throw/take it away from her. Really sad and horrifying.

 

[Tincatinker]

An umbrella would have kept her from the rain for a while. 10€ might have saved her from a beating. It's a hard way to make a living but its a living and its less of a threat to our kids than drug dealing and cleaner and safer than prostitution.

I can well believe that the police in Santiago will do no more than those in the UK or France or Germany about the Gangmasters. Why should they, no-one, sorry no tax-payer, is going to offer coin to those who have none, especially if it will just end up in the pockets of them. The undeserving poor are ever with us but we can choose to ignore them.

And before I get thrashed... I offer nor mean any personal criticism of any who have posted in this thread. I totally agree with Kanga that giving money is not the solution and can often only make matters worse. Giving food, clothing, kindness can make a huge difference to some. Giving a horse-laugh to a pan-handler can maybe make a difference too. Just, please, never do nothing. If you think it's a scam tell the police, if you think it's a genuine case of need do what you can. You can't change the world but you can change the moment.

 

[Kanga]

Well said @Tincatinker

 

[simply B]

@Tincatinker -

You can't change the world but you can change the moment.

THAT is beautiful, man. I'll have it top-of-mind from here on.

Thanks!

B

 

[Bristle Boy]

@Tincatinker -



THAT is beautiful, man. I'll have it top-of-mind from here on.

Thanks!

B

Perhaps the answer could be to call the police (or offer to) to get them some assistance or to direct them in the right direction for the assistance they need!
Of course we live in a world where the dark, underlying reasons behind such scams are difficult to understand! Unfortunately they go on everywhere!
In England we have “the big issue” (a magazine for the homeless).
I always give (sometimes more than the face value) but I have always receive something and what I have given makes a difference!