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Sarria pilgrims

Bilbo, I understand what you mean about the Camino being devalued. I am on many travel forums and it is often recommended for being budget friendly and good for solo travelers. Both of these things are true but certainly not describing the spirit of the Camino.

I would also feel irritated (especially the part about the carbon footprint so one can carry non necessities) and judgmental at that type of thing. The Camino can still have a life changing experience- maybe they will regret not simplifying or feel the urge to return for a different type of Camino. And they can still be good people. These are the things I tell myself when judgement starts to creep into my mind.
 
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Bilbo said:
as for people on time constraints i think they are missing out on so much from the earlier sections ,pyranees and the messata roman road way where we saw literally no one for instance,
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Absolutely. And people who start at St. Jean Pied de Port miss out on so much that people who start at Le Puy or Vezelay or one of the other much earlier starting points experience. And people who take a plane or a train to these starting points miss out on so much that is experienced by people who start at their own front door. And people who stop at Santiago de Compostela (or Finisterre or Muxia) miss out on so much that is experienced by pilgrims who turn around and walk home. But although these people are all missing out, their pilgrimages are equally valid and many find them very meaningful.
 
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i would go as far as saying that a compostela should only be issued at 100km on production of proof of disability ,or old age ect
todays attitude of getting something without putting the effort in
but thats only my opinion ,maybe have a moving walkway installed for them ,or is standing too much effort ?
 
The only Camino I concern myself with is my own. I no longer collect a compostella in Santiago as I haven’t the wall-space and St Peter is unlikely to need to see the paperwork.

Had there been a 14th century equivalent of Ryanair, pilgrims would have flown to Santiago.

Whilst I’ve walked two full CdF, several partials and two other routes - and will start again in a week’s time - I have occasionally taken a bus. That doesn’t make me a bad person.
 
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At least two weak points in your statement ( I'm not even talking about your condescending tone ).

Firstly , how disabled does someone have to be in your view? 20 percent or 45 percent? Do they have to get a certificate from their doctor or health insurance?

Not every disability is visible.
So there goes that logic!
I followed some pilgrimgroups with disabilities on the Camino through social media. Also met one group when in Santiago two years ago and they are one of the bravest souls I have ever met.


Secondly : " old age " . Have to dissapoint you there too. From what I observed after some Caminos is that especially our senior citizens are much more aware of their strength and possibilities/limits than the younger generations.
There are some senior forummembers here who will pass you by with not much effort.

Buen Camino!
 
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im talking about the masses of people who are turning this amazing route into a non challange ,young able bodied who walk the shortest route then cant be bothered to carry their own packs ,, correct about old age though ,there was an 80 year old doing the full route,
anyway im out of this thread , leave some of you guys to gaze on while the route is rendered meaningless
 
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Actually IMHO the Camino is more about the spirit in which it is walked than the distance. A Camino of 100kms may be more meaningful to the pilgrim who achieves it than one of 300/600kms (or whatever) that has no significance, other than being a good long distance hike, to the person concerned. It is similar to saying that only those who walk the Frances have walked a Camino.
Many of us walk other and/or shorter Caminos and who knows what benefit another gains however they achieve their aim of reaching Santiago. Please do not categorise our chosen routes/distances as meaningless
 
TV you're right. But some people won't listen to anything other than their own opinions. Let's leave him to smug up in his self righteous opinions and get on with walking/cycling/ catching busses according to our personal preference. And as far as I'm concerned pilgrim is as pilgrim does.
 
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I understand people being frustrated with the river of peregrinos that begins at Sarria, but there's (as always) another way to look at it.

My first Camino was in early May 2018 — Sarria to Santiago. I was 68 and simply didn't know if I would be able to do it. I'm in good shape but was wary of the challenge. I was so stoked that I came this summer with a friend and we walked the Norte from Irún, then down to Oviedo and onto Santiago, a very difficult Camino at age 69. I would not have attempted it without the Sarria experience, which whetted my appetite.

So I suspect that many of the Sarria peregrinos are in training, as I was, and will have a more intense Camino in their futures.
 
you never know if somebody has a disability and they're walking with the water bottle and a walking stick.
 
One one hand, as a person with a "hidden disability" I find it annoying as hell when someone looks at me, sans backpack, and judges me as 'not a real pilgrim." How do you know WHY the lady with the daypack and walking sticks didn't recently have a hip replacement, or survive cancer and chemo, or is suffering from vertigo or some other disability that you cannot see? And honestly, why would you CARE?

On the other hand, I remember quite well feeling angry and disgusted more than once on my first Camino when I ran into pilgrims happily RUNNING down the beech forest trail into Roncesvalles, having gotten off a bus at the top, or seeing pilgrims at Gonzar with teeny tiny daypacks, and being VERY judgmental that they must be cheating.

Funny how time changes things.

Now, I can only chuckle and assume, when someone raises judgment, that the self-righteous judges are brand new pilgrims with little or no experience on the Camino.

I've come to realize the simple truth that I'm not all-knowing, and if a person IS cheating, well, they're only cheating themselves... it has nothing to do with me. ::::

Has the Camino become devalued? I think yes, in the way that it is no longer primarily a pilgrimage, but rather a fad adventure to tick off having done. Every time someone posts a new movie or book or (now) video, I cringe.

I do understand Bilbo's feelings and have expressed them myself more than once. Hair dryers, make up, perfume, nylon stockings, loud late iPhone conversations, long hot showers, rude shovers and pushers- none seem to have a place on the Camino in my world. I do find those things annoying - maybe due to old age crotchetiness (is that a word?). But there's nothing we can do about it except find quieter routes with fewer people - maybe walk in off-season - and do our best not to let them get us down.

Just a year ago I was complaining, saying "I'm done with the Camino!" for all the above reasons and more. But guess what? I'm flying back in March of this coming Spring. lol! Go figure. We have short memories when it comes to people and things we love - and I love Spain, the people, and all that goes with it.

It just is what it is.
 
Let us pick up your suitcase once you arrive in Europe....
...and ship it to Santiago for storage. You pick it up once in Santiago. Service offered by Casa Ivar (we use DHL for transportation).
I've been thinking about a new t-shirt to wear when I'm on a Camino. On the back (which you can see, I cycle my Camino now) It will have "Please pass me without saying Buen Camino" and on the front "I know it's not this way, I'm going to the railway station" Will that annoy enough people, do you think? If not please suggest something better! It seems to take very little to wind people up, after all.
 
Sorry to be a late-comer to the thread. My original intent was to walk from St. Jean Pied de Port but work got in the way. For me, walking the Camino was supposed to be mind and soul-clearing as I left one job and started another. My boss needed me to hang around longer than I anticipated so I cut it to walking from Astorga. Then, my walking companion (and best friend of 30 years) had his boss pull something similar—said he needed to be in the US for Memorial Day. So all we wound up having was time to walk from Sarria. I even contemplated starting in Samos but there wasn’t the time,

No one was rude to us walking. That said, we carried our packs, stayed in albergues, and tried our best to be respectful to those who had walked longer distances.

What we did was meaningful and a feat for us. I met some amazing folks and a honored to have walked but what I did was on a different order than those who are able to give weeks or months of their time to the Camino. One day I’ll be able to. Until then, I’m cherish my experiences walking from Sarria to Santiago de Compostela and enjoy this online community.
 

This is at its base a religious pilgrimage, and from that point of view it is accomplished just as much by those Catholics who travel in public transport or motor vehicles to Compostela for that religious purpose. That this particular pilgrimage is also open to non-Catholics and even for alternative reasons is a very long-standing oddity of the Way of Saint James. There's some of it on the Way to Rome, but on no other Catholic Pilgrim Way, where to do such a pilgrimage as a non-Catholic/non-Orthodox/similar (except as a prospective convert) would be generally meaningless.

That some people wish to add some extra degree of challenge to it, whether that be for religious, sports, or any other reasons is fine, but nobody should be mistaken into any belief that there might be some kind of minimum effort required for a valid pilgrimage beyond the effort to visit the tomb of the Apostle.

This is fundamentally a pilgrimage Way -- not a hiking trail (although it's that as well).

Though having said that, a tradition of the Compostela Way that it shares really only with the Jerusalem Way is that those pilgrims who walk to these pilgrimage destinations have always been respected more, for the extra devotion, than those travelling there by other means.

That the Compostela now is given only to those having walked or biked &c a minimum distance is a consequence of such a vast increase in the numbers of pilgrims that the Cathedral can quite simply not provide one to every single pilgrim to Santiago, but they have had to impose it as an arbitrary condition. Whereas previously, even someone travelling by coach or train for his pilgrimage could obtain the document, if he could show that it was for a proper religious purpose (which meant having a letter from his priest or Bishop and so on).
 
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Peter Fransiscus said:
There is no such thing as a full route.
Just saying.
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The "full route" is home to home the long way round via Compostela ; or in the shorter version, home to Santiago.

But the shorter routes are pilgrimages just the same !!! And all equally valid.

All things being equal, a longer Camino is "better" than a shorter one ; but all things are not equal.
 
Binky said:
you never know if somebody has a disability and they're walking with the water bottle and a walking stick.
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I think you missed my point; those with "issues" are totally excluded. Its those "show ponies" that I am against.
 
Ok, Saint Mike, are you going to go up to them and ask about their disability? Because I think Binky got it right. YOU don't know their circumstances. And personally, if you came up to me with a question like that, disabled or not, I would feel justified in asking you to go away in two words. The first starts with F
 
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"I'm only riding today because my bike wouldn't fit in the taxi"
 
Ironic that the certificate mentions bicycles in “Latin”. Bicycles were not exactly an available mode of transport in ancient Rome. According to Wikipedia, the first bicycle known of was made and used in 1817. I suppose in the future they will need to find a “Latin” word for skateboards and electric bicycles.
 
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There are various kinds of Latin: classical Latin as written during the times of the Romans, medieval Latin (basically all documents from that time are written in Latin), then later the Latin of diplomacy and science (until German became the international language of science and now English) and New Latin, used daily by the Vatican for example who maintain a huge dictionary.

The text on the Compostela is new, it's not a reproduction and not even an adaption of a medieval text. I personally find that the (rather convoluted imho) Latin on it is a bit of a gimmick.

An electric bike is of course a birota electrica. The word electric entered the English language via Latin but not via the Latin of the old Romans. Electricus/electrica is a totally invented Latin word. Coined by William Gilbert, an English physician who published a book about magnetism around 1600. In Latin, of course.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology_of_electricity
 
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The Wikipedia article is not very good, and occasionally wrong.

It's not "vulgar" Latin (I prefer the phrase "colloquial Latin" personally, though really it should just be called ordinary Latin) that diverged into the Romance languages, but the Late Latin evolved into a proto-Romance state, and that's what diverged.

As for "new" and "contemporary" Latin, essentially these are the same as the Mediaeval Latin and the Church Latin, just with some extra vocabulary.

Vulgar Latin is not a particular state nor period in the language, but it was quite simply the non-literary form of the language -- if anything, the Classical Latin was a peculiar form of Latin that was artificially maintained for use by the educated classes. But there were multiple states of the Vulgar Latin that evolved throughout the Roman History, from the Kingdom of Rome via the Republic, Classical, post-Classical, and High Mediaeval periods.

Whereas the normal state of the language, including in its "non-literary" texts (ahem!), is mostly known through the texts of the Late Latin period, though a small number of texts survive from the Classical period not written in the Classical form, including one which is a memoir of a pilgrimage to the Holy Land ; Saint Jerome's Latin Bible for example is written in a mixture, depending on which text you're reading, of Late Latin and a classicised form of it.

Kathar1na said:
The text on the Compostela is new, it's not a reproduction and not even an adaption of a medieval text. I personally find that the (rather convoluted imho) Latin on it is a bit of a gimmick.
Click to expand...

Contemporary Church Latin is, indeed, sometimes a bit weird.

But no, it's not a "new" text, but it is an abridged and shorter version of an old one, as you can see from this Compostela of 2nd June 1733 :



... and this more legible one of 9th September 1777 :



The Cathedral in Santiago has been issuing Compostelas since the 14th Century, so that it is very likely indeed that the text in these 18th Century certificates was written in the 14th Century, so that yes the Latin on the modern Compostelas is basically a text written in Mediaeval Church Latin.
 
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You’re truly a mine of interesting information, @Kathar1na , thank you!
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Thank you, @domigee, it’s the internet that is the real mine of information, and I can often not suppress an urge to share the small treasures I have discovered. Until yesterday, I didn’t know that skateboard in Latin is a tabula subrotata, ie a slate on wheels, or a mobile home is a domuncula subrotata, ie a little house on wheels, and I had never listened to the Vatican’s weekly podcast in Latin, a 5 minutes news summary, where I actually managed to understand half a sentence here and there.

One can never know where a thread about pilgrims starting in Sarria can lead: I’m currently reading about “Figurative uses of animal names in Latin and their application to military devices” which is a thesis from 1912 with excursions to Roman and medieval times (again!), and I may then turn my attention to the topic of “How do I develop scientific names for my species” which I guess is a hot topic among budding sci-fi writers of the 21st century. And all that just because I got sidetracked when I tried to figure out why a small North American moth has the scientific name Heterocampa subrotata.
 
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“GO PLACIDLY amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons.

Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story.

Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexatious to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter, for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself...”
 
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Hi Domigee. When I was a primary school teacher there were times of in-jokes. One was about Christmas. On the first day after the Christmas break, a little boy ran breathlessly into the classroom and asked the teacher: ’Hey Miss, any word about that pair that was lookin’ fur a hoose?’
How did your friend get on with her Camino?



EDIT. I missed your response with the good news that your friend did not meet any negativity. Well, the joke is still timely, as it is always nice to hear back about the kind of questions people post prior to caminos.
 
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Those making such comments as the OP suggest and have walked any camino have missed the point of the exercise.

Post Sarria was a shock but by the time I got there I could outpace many of those just starting or slow down to miss them. Simples.
 
An Ourense Pilgrim, a Ferrol Pilgrim, a Tui Pilgrim, a Sarria Pilgrim, time well spent. Ultreya.
 

how about one (this is mine i deserve it )showing the route starting from sjpdp that would definitely trigger me ,as in, been there havnt done that but bought the tshirt.
 
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It's a nice t-shirt. But I doubt if it would upset anyone who wasn't already a bit cross.
 
yeh i guess ,i think the best thing with camino tshirts is that i can start random conversations when im walking here in Cornwall (drifts of topic) i love to recall my time in September ,suddenly surrounded by sheep rather than people it is still taking time to adjust
 
You can always walk another Camino, or the Frances again. It does tend to be addictive.
 
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Hello everyone, i have just started reading this. I was so proud to make the decsion to walk the last 110k. But then saw all the comments.

I was hoping for a personal journey without booking in advance and going with the flow.

I was also hoping for some hours of solitude, this seems like neither of theses plans are realistic?
How busy is this part? do you get any moments alone?
Do i have to book hostels in advance??
Disappointed from Devon!
 
I've had lots of moments alone in the last 100 km. Whether you decide to book ahead is a personal choice. If you stay on municipal albergues they don't accept advance reservations.
 
janejanie said:
I was also hoping for some hours of solitude, this seems like neither of theses plans are realistic?
How busy is this part? do you get any moments alone?
Click to expand...
The problem in answering is that people see these things very differently. Will you have hours of solitude in the final 100km? Almost certainly not unless you walk in the middle of winter. The route is busy enough that you will rarely be out of sight of others for more than a few minutes at a time. Is that too busy for you? - only you can answer that one. I prefer the quieter routes myself but very many people enjoy the Sarria to Santiago stretch and thrive on the buzz of others.
 
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I walked through this section in mid-May, again in October of another year, and a third time in July. During all those times, I vividly remember having time to myself. I walk slower than most pilgrims being older, and many would pass me by without a word and that was perfectly fine with me. I met up with other pilgrims that I felt I could converse with, often at dinnertime in one of the local restaurants. It's been often said that the Camino is what you in particular make of it and I think that holds true. Go, and have a good experience! Buen Camino
 
@janejanie, It is not as bleak as some here have painted it. Yes it is busier than the rest of the Francis but you can find solitude in any crowd if you want to. It is up to you. You can walk faster than the group you want to avoid or slower than them, some of it is about relative pace.

I walked it in September, did not book anywhere and always found somewhere to sleep, not always my first choice but always a bed. Much of the business of this stretch is caused by the tour organisers because this is the 100kM that is the minimum needed for a compostela. These walkers tend to stick in a pack so easily avoided.

Don't be disappointed, if you have time only for 100kM do it, it won't be wasted time, it probably won't be exactly as you expect but it will be an experience. Go without too many preconceptions and enjoy it for what it turns out to be.
 
If you were looking for solitary experience then don't pick the busiest part of the Camino ---the last hundred kilometers. I have walked this part 10 times either in May September both busy months. The Camino changes when you reach this point. Busloads of pilgrims are dropped off and most of them are carrying only a purse or a tiny backpack so they are hard to pass. I usually walk behind a large group for a while and when they are all stopped to get a stamp i get ahead enjoy solitude until I reach the next group. I don't think one needs reservations anymore on this part then any place else because the tour groups are often picked up and taken to a hotel.
If I only had time to walk a hundred kilometers of the Camino, I would walk from Leon to Ponferrada. On this section you would experience solitude, beauty, historical buildings and the moving experience of climbing to Cruz de Ferro . It is easy to get to Lyon from anywhere and ponferrada also has great transportation.
If your main goal is to get a Compostela you would have to come back to walk the last hundred kilometers but you would be more prepared I think at that time to enjoy the Camino despite crowds. I actually enjoy the crowds of new pilgrims because they are so excited. It's their first few days and they are laughing and smiling and singing.
 
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janejanie said:
I was also hoping for some hours of solitude, this seems like neither of theses plans are realistic?
How busy is this part? do you get any moments alone?
Do i have to book hostels in advance??
Click to expand...

Depending what time of year you will walk, all of this can happen.

I walked in July '19 and found this part of the camino francès sometimes crowded, sometimes really empty.
I had no problem finding accomodation, in Portomarrin I was turned away from the first albergue but found another place to rest across the street.
You can walk partially in total solitude even after Sarria, if you are the first to get on the track in the morning or wait until 9/10am and walk. As far as my experience is, most pilgrims will be walking from 6am - 1/2pm.

I didn't plan ahead and did book ahead just one albergue.
Do you want to get a Compostela, then walk this part. If you are curious about the Camino, there are more beautiful parts to walk. Just read the comments to your posting.
 
The crowds seem to drift apart after Sarria, then drift back together towards Santiago.

Maybe try and aim for places to sleep that are NOT recommended by Brierley ?
 
It depends on when you walk (time of year, time of day) and where you stop for the night. It also depends on how set you are on getting your first choice albergue or if you are okay with sleeping wherever is available.

Solitude is available, but you are more likely to find it: outside the high season, which (from Sarria) seems to be July and August; starting a little later in the day or starting from a spot that isn't a stage end in one of the major guidebooks like Brierley.

Similarly, it is possible to not book ahead, but that means: walking outside the high season (see above); ending earlier in the day; ending at a spot that isn't a stage end in one of the major guidebooks or apps.

As you can see, ending in places that are different from the stage boundaries in the major guidebooks and apps is one way to get the solitude you are looking for and find emptier albergues. But it is worth noting that guidebooks pick their end spots for reasons. And, because these towns get more pilgrims staying, they tend to have more infrastructure (shops, bars, restaurants, ATMs, etc.). So if you are stopping in a smaller spot in between, you will probably want to pay attention when passing through the larger places and stock up on what you will need in the afternoon/evening.

Of course, you may find plenty of solitude and availability without resorting to these strategies. But if you don't, they can help.
 
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The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
Sarria to Santiago, walking earlyish May (thank goodness I blogged all this so I could remember):

Sarria to Portomarin -- TONS of people. I hadn't seen that many people on the trail all at once since the 200+ of us all left Roncesvalles at the same time. It was shockingly crowded.

Portomarin to Eixere -- crowds on the trail in the morning, but it really thinned out by the time I reached Eixere. I saw very few pilgrims after the N-640. But it was also overcast/drizzling (perfect for my Seattle temperament, but it might have affected other pilgrims).

Eixere to Melide -- crowds were quite thin on the trail again, almost Navarra levels. It was also raining very hard that day (again, perfect for a Seattle girl like me, but I did hear a lot of complaining from those I encountered).

Melide to Brea -- again, traffic was similar to what I was seeing in Navarra. It was an overcast/drizzly day again.

A Brea to the town between the tv stations and Santiago (can't believe I didn't write the town in my blog) -- I saw more pilgrims, similar to what I experienced in the first few days out of Roncesvalles.

Last day walking into Santiago -- PACKED! The trail is really just sidewalks at that point anyways, but it was still a high concentration of pilgrims.

So now that I think this through, I'm wondering if what I was witnessing was excitement and enthusiasm from new pilgrims out of Sarria (and it was a gorgeous day), then the rains perhaps dampened spirits? Were the Sarria pilgrims taking taxis or busses to avoid the rain? I will never know, and frankly it doesn't bother me whatever they did.

Just go for it. It is YOUR camino and no one else's.
 
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