Rethinking my Camino plans

[Former member 92300]

So - After having to cancel my first Camino twice due to COVID - I was able to go at the last minute in June 2021 when Spain reopened to Vaccinated US Citizens. I arrived in Spain on the same day it opened to US vaccinated citizens and made my way to St Jean Pied de Port. When I began my walk - there were VERY few people on the trails. I never had a problem with full albergues (well not before Sarria) - but figuring out which albergues were still open was the challenge. Also, lots of stuff that is normally open, were closed or had reduced hours - making it hard to see things along the way (well - we got to see the outside of everything lol). I walked alone most of the time - and could go hours without seeing another soul on many days. I did meet people got to know many - but it wasn't your usual "Frances route" experience. Anyhow - it was still a great experience - and it was exactly what I needed last summer because I was so burnt out from a nightmare year at work (my work has revolved around COVID for 2+ years now).

Fast forward to February 2022. My daughter and I decided to do the Frances route this summer. I picked Frances again because 1) I didn't really experience a normal Frances Route Camino. I am curious as to what it is like when lots of people are on the trail and when I can stop at all the places I had to skip last summer. 2) It is my daughters 1st Camino - and I feel Frances is best for a 1st Camino - and with her being 18 - I felt she would meet lots of people her age-20's to hang out with (and walk with them instead of mom). And 3) I felt it was the most affordable route for 2 people to walk together. Daughter is paying for herself - and I knew she could stick to a smaller budget on the Frances. SO.... I booked airfare to Paris, reserved 2 nights in Paris (so she can go to the catacombs and a few other places we missed when she went with me last time). I also booked our plane tickets to Biarritz and the first week of reservations (because I know my daughter well enough to know I NEED to know where we are staying the first week until she settles into the route).

Fast forward to Tuesday - after weeks of second guessing our summer plans - daughter decided she wants to go separately. She wants to work for 1 more month before she quits her job. But she still wants to go on the Camino and return closer to when she heads off to college. So - she bought a new ticket to Paris and a new train ticket to Bayonne. Which leads ME to changing MY plans. I have no interest in hanging out in Paris - so I cancelled my Paris reservations and bought a new train ticket to Bayonne and have a hotel reserved that night in Bayonne.

Anyhow - all this craziness leaves me with having to adjust all the other reservations I made! I can outright cancel some - because I am willing to "wing it" now that my daughter isn't coming. But the one reservation that I might not be able to change - is Orisson. I already sent in a new reservation request on wrote on it that I had a reservation for 2 a couple days later that would need to be changed/cancelled. But at 4 weeks away - I don't know if there will be any space for me at Orisson (and of course - I won't get a quick reply on my reservation request). I do know my other options on the Frances route - should I not be able to stay at Orisson.

But, if I can't get the Orisson reservation changed to the new date, I will have to outright cancel the current reservation - that leads me to one last MAJOR dilemma. Do I continue planning for Frances or do I switch to the Norte route? Should I go on the Frances again to experience a normal Frances route? To see the things I didn't get to see/do last time? Or should I do the route I haven't done before and start in Bayonne? I already know Frances is likely to be very crowded, but will the Norte also be very crowded (for the Norte)? Will I be able to find enough cheap lodging to keep my costs down? Will I be too cold on the Norte? (I had an unseasonably cold June/July last year on the Frances). I do get cold very easily. But I do have a down puffy and can pack warmer layers if needed. Also - it looks like I would miss a lot of Sarria to Santiago, is that right? (I did NOT like Sarria to Santiago lol too many large groups). Will a crowded Frances ruin the Frances for me after a blissful not-crowded Frances? haha. What should I do? (LOL - OK - I know you aren't me... but what would YOU do?). I mean - Norte is new but I feel like I haven't truly experienced Frances either.

I should add... I am also planning to walk to Finisterre/Muxia... and now that my daughter isn't coming - I will probably keep walking to Porto before coming home! So - I will get my coast either way. Anyhow - I arrive in Bayonne May 25th - so would start walking on either the 26th or 27th depending on whether or not I want to do a short day on the 26th (which is the plan if I get the reservation for Orisson).

Oh the dilemma of too many good choices!

 

[MinaKamina]

It isn't either the CF or the Norte.

Here are some other options between the CF and the Norte, you can mix & match to yout heart's desire. One life isn't long enough to see all there is to see in Spain btw.

 

[J Willhaus]

So many options! Maybe do the Argonnes to CF and then the Invierno to avoid CF crowds. That way you will get the CF and miss the early and late route crowds and pinch points, but still get a good taste of it from Puenta la Reina to Ponferrada. If you can afford it, maybe just lose the Orrison money? The Norte and Primativo would also be good options. Less lodging and more expensive though if that matters.

 

[Former member 92300]

It isn't either the CF or the Norte.

Here are some other options between the CF and the Norte, you can mix & match to yout heart's desire. One life isn't long enough to see all there is to see in Spain btw.

Haha... that just complicates things with TOO many options! But thanks... I like this map that shows all the crossover points. I will most likely stick to one of the 2 routes though - unless I find I am not enjoying whichever route I pick for some reason. And yes - there is a lot more of Spain I haven't seen yet! But since I have tickets to Bayonne... will definitely start this time in either Bayonne or SJPDP.

 

[Former member 92300]

So many options! Maybe do the Argonnes to CF and then the Invierno to avoid CF crowds. That way you will get the CF and miss the early and late route crowds and pinch points, but still get a good taste of it from Puenta la Reina to Ponferrada. If you can afford it, maybe just lose the Orrison money? The Norte and Primativo would also be good options. Less lodging and more expensive though if that matters.

Yeah... not worried about losing the Orrison money. I figure they might still be playing catch up from COVID losses anyway. I sent the new change request BEFORE I realized I can switch routes without daughter.

Thanks for the suggestions! Trying to stay on a budget - but I do have play room not that daughter isn't coming. She was supposed to pay for herself - but at 18 - I was planning to pick up the slack because she would probably under-save or over-spend haha.

 

[C clearly]

I will give some thoughts that may or may not help!

You can have a certain pre-conception of a trip, and when the rationale for it (i.e. your daughter's company) is taken away, you can take a fresh look at plans and develop a new rationale/concept.

Should I go on the Frances again to experience a normal Frances route? To see the things I didn't get to see/do last time?

I think there is a bit of danger in using your "abnormal" Frances as the basis and then trying to fill in the pieces that you think were missing. We don't know if 2022 will meet those expectations. Besides, what is "normal"? By all means, do the Frances again, but treat it as a new adventure rather than a supplementary one.

Maybe stop looking for a normal Frances, and develop a different philosophy. For example, this could be a deliberate exploration of some shorter variants. As you can see from @MinaKamina 's map, you could pop onto the Frances at various points, see how you enjoy it, and then diverge at other points. Being on your own is a perfect time to do this - it would certainly be harder with a companion - so take advantage of this.

My daughters (ages 31 and 33) decided to join me in October 2019. They had only 2 weeks to spend with me, so I chose the Vasco del Interior for us. There were few other pilgrims, but we knew that would be the case, and it gave us an opportunity to visit with each other. We thoroughly enjoyed that route and it had just enough of all the different elements of any Camino, that it was very satisfying for all of us. My point is that it was a completely different experience and could not be compared with any other Camino.

This year I am again trying to plan a trip that considers the current situation (Covid, as well as a troublesome foot problem) but one that can be a unique and full experience. I need to keep reminding myself not to plan it on the basis of old assumptions/expectations.

 

[Former member 92300]

I will give some thoughts that may or may not help!

I think there is a bit of danger in using your "abnormal" Frances as the basis and then trying to fill in the pieces that you think were missing. We don't know if 2022 will meet those expectations. Besides, what is "normal"? By all means, do the Frances again, but treat it as a new adventure rather than a supplementary one.

Maybe stop looking for a normal Frances, and develop a different philosophy. For example, this could be a deliberate exploration of some shorter variants. As you can see from @MinaKamina 's map, you could pop onto the Frances at various points, see how you enjoy it, and then diverge at other points. Being on your own is a perfect time to do this - it would certainly be harder with a companion - so take advantage of this.

This year I am again trying to plan a trip that considers the current situation (Covid, as well as a troublesome foot problem) but one that can be a unique and full experience. I need to keep reminding myself not to plan it on the basis of old assumptions/expectations.

Thanks! Yes - it is hard because I know I didn't experience what I "expected" to experience - but what I did experience was amazing BECAUSE of COVID. And what is more normal? Well - people are obviously returning to the Frances, and more places being open - giving more opportunities. But what was I MISSING? Well - hard to judge that too, because again - my experience was still amazing BECAUSE of COVID haha. All the closures last year were actually good for me last year. And because I loved my COVID Camino - I do want to go back! And yes, I definitely wan to treat this summer as a new experience. Just struggling because I know it will be different. And I guess it is the crowds on the Frances that are making me the most nervous. (the threads about sick people in the dorms aren't helping either).

I am excited though because I do have flexibility again without my daughter. As I said - I reserved the first week to make sure I met her needs - now I don't have to reserve much at all - and can totally experience staying in different towns if I chose to. I guess I just need to figure out where I want to start and go from there!

 

[Richard of York]

The Norte is apparently hard. I've not walked it, but I have driven on the A8 and it is incredibly hilly. I personally would prefer something flatter. SJPP to Roncesvalles is doable in a day, I did, and that is hard too when you have to continue your march downhill for the next few days; it's hard on the knees.
If it were me in your position I'd book ahead a day at a time. Me doing it a second time I'd just wing it and see what the Camino provides. Knock on doors... people will help. My house is directly on the Camino. I have a spare room so if someone asks to stay, the answer will be yes if they don't look too dodgy.

 

[Eve Alexandra]

This may sound a little “woo” but I think the Frances is an unique experience no matter the timing. My first experience in 2017 is literally nothing like the one I’m having now, and I don’t think it’s Covid related. I’ve had some interesting conversations where I’ve said “I’ve had a lot of <fill in the blank>” and discovered the person sitting in front of me in the cafe has had the opposite, whether it’s crowds, places open/shut, Camino family/or not. Some of these interactions have surprised me, like the guy today who was listening to Bob Dylan from AU and I randomly mentioned I’ve met a lot of people from AU and he said, “really I haven’t met one yet!” I think he was probably close to the 10th Australian I’ve met! Lol

So with that said, I’m inclined to suggest balancing “what does your gut tell you you really want to do” along with the Covid safety factor.

 

[naplesdon]

My only advice is: never, ever plan to do a Camino with someone else.
It can become a major issue if you are a planner. I had a friend who wanted me to be her guide on the CF, it would have been her first. I carefully planned the trip and made quite few forward reservations at my “favorite” places. She decided not to go about 2 weeks before the departure date. I made the decision to follow my original itinerary rather than pine over what could have been.
Stay the plan, there are many years ahead of you to try other routes.

 

[Corned Beef]

My only advice is: never, ever plan to do a Camino with someone else.
It can become a major issue if you are a planner. I had a friend who wanted me to be her guide on the CF, it would have been her first. I carefully planned the trip and made quite few forward reservations at my “favorite” places. She decided not to go about 2 weeks before the departure date. I made the decision to follow my original itinerary rather than pine over what could have been.
Stay the plan, there are many years ahead of you to try other routes.

They say the first casualty of any plan, is the plan itself. Best to be flexible (and insured)

 

[J Willhaus]

I think many of us have the "plan" and as @Corned Beef mentions, the plan is often changed (sometimes even before we begin). There are many uncertainties in life and it seems even more so lately. None the less, some of us are more comfortable than others with risk, change, and uncertainty. I always have plan A, B, C, etc. and my husband just goes along with whatever the flow is going to be. He did have to "count" the days we will be in Spain this summer so he can figure out how many days he can go back for this fall by himself on a tourist visa though so he does have some planning sensibilities.

 

[Herman Chin]

I wouldn't let the Orisson reservation determine your Camino.
We did the Frances in 2017 and had a blast but did the Norte/Primitivo in 2019 and had a better time.
Yes, there are more hills on the Norte but a lot less people and beautiful scenery and beaches.
But when it comes down to it, if you can walk SJPDP to Roncenvalles in a day, you can do the Norte.
We are 69 this year and starting the Norte on May 5. We've planned 34 days of walking to Santiago de Compostela.
If you cancel your reservation at Orisson, one option would be to take a car up there in the morning and walk from there to Roncenvalles. I've even known people who walked to Orisson on the first day, then back to SJPDP and took a car up the next morning to Orisson and walked from there to Roncenvalles.

 

[Eve Alexandra]

. I always have plan A, B, C, etc.

same

 

[ktchnofdngr]

Which route you want to/plan to walk is up to you, and a very personal choice. However, if you miss out on being able to stay at orisson. but you still want to do the Frances, it might be worth it to go through valcarlos rather than the napoleon route. I did so in 2016, and it was very nice.

my 1/2 a cent.

Ruth

 

[Philtration]

It isn't either the CF or the Norte.

Here are some other options between the CF and the Norte, you can mix & match to yout heart's desire. One life isn't long enough to see all there is to see in Spain btw.

This is a great map! Where can I get it and are there more maps for the rest of the caminos?
Thanks!

 

[BombayBill]

Boy can I emphasize with your conundrum. Planning for my fall 2022 walk led me first to the Arles route, then Piemont, then Norte - Primitivo , and now Salvador - Primitivo. However I've learned over many walks to leave my options open. So to compensate for my dithering I only book the first few critical pieces of a trip and leave the rest for the last moment. So when planning for the CF in 2021 I booked only Roncavalles and Zubiri in advance and left some of the other first days unbooked knowing there were many options.

As for changing your mind my reasoning is - losing your deposit on 1 or 2 nights is nothing compared to the overall cost of your trip (is this the Sunk Cost Fallacy?). One of the factors in making up your mind might be weather and that can't be known months in advance. I'm willing to forfeit 1 or 2 deposits to avoid a slog in a searing heat wave or monsoon season. Last year in Leon in September I met pilgrims who abandoned the Norte to join the CF because of the weather. 2022 is the year to be flexible because of Covid, Holy Year etc.

So my humble advice is to review all the trails. Let 1 plan be foremost in your mind but keep up your research on the others. The right way will become apparent as the day approaches. My introduction to the Camino came about because I was on the GR10 approaching the Med with the weather against me. A friend said "you're nuts, skip this ordeal and come to Porto and try this thing called the Camino". Best thing that ever happened!

I just wish my plans would soon become apparent to me too! Hmm now thinking the whole Norte then Salvador - Primitivo in 2023.

 

[J Willhaus]

This is a great map! Where can I get it and are there more maps for the rest of the caminos?
Thanks!

Casa Ivar has this big Camino map that you may see on the walls at some albergues. We always take it when we do a Camino Talk for people to look at and dream. We have a second one which shows all Camino routes in Europe, too.

Camino de Santiago Map (1:1.250.000)

This map is as large as your kitchen table when you fold it out. It shows the whole of Spain with all the Caminos marked. Probably not ideal to use while walking, but fantastic for sitting at home planning your next walk. Size: 92cm x 123cm (36 inches x 48,4 inches) This is the 5th edition from...

www.santiagodecompostela.me

 

[Edwardo]

So - After having to cancel my first Camino twice due to COVID - I was able to go at the last minute in June 2021 when Spain reopened to Vaccinated US Citizens. I arrived in Spain on the same day it opened to US vaccinated citizens and made my way to St Jean Pied de Port. When I began my walk - there were VERY few people on the trails. I never had a problem with full albergues (well not before Sarria) - but figuring out which albergues were still open was the challenge. Also, lots of stuff that is normally open, were closed or had reduced hours - making it hard to see things along the way (well - we got to see the outside of everything lol). I walked alone most of the time - and could go hours without seeing another soul on many days. I did meet people got to know many - but it wasn't your usual "Frances route" experience. Anyhow - it was still a great experience - and it was exactly what I needed last summer because I was so burnt out from a nightmare year at work (my work has revolved around COVID for 2+ years now).

Fast forward to February 2022. My daughter and I decided to do the Frances route this summer. I picked Frances again because 1) I didn't really experience a normal Frances Route Camino. I am curious as to what it is like when lots of people are on the trail and when I can stop at all the places I had to skip last summer. 2) It is my daughters 1st Camino - and I feel Frances is best for a 1st Camino - and with her being 18 - I felt she would meet lots of people her age-20's to hang out with (and walk with them instead of mom). And 3) I felt it was the most affordable route for 2 people to walk together. Daughter is paying for herself - and I knew she could stick to a smaller budget on the Frances. SO.... I booked airfare to Paris, reserved 2 nights in Paris (so she can go to the catacombs and a few other places we missed when she went with me last time). I also booked our plane tickets to Biarritz and the first week of reservations (because I know my daughter well enough to know I NEED to know where we are staying the first week until she settles into the route).

Fast forward to Tuesday - after weeks of second guessing our summer plans - daughter decided she wants to go separately. She wants to work for 1 more month before she quits her job. But she still wants to go on the Camino and return closer to when she heads off to college. So - she bought a new ticket to Paris and a new train ticket to Bayonne. Which leads ME to changing MY plans. I have no interest in hanging out in Paris - so I cancelled my Paris reservations and bought a new train ticket to Bayonne and have a hotel reserved that night in Bayonne.

Anyhow - all this craziness leaves me with having to adjust all the other reservations I made! I can outright cancel some - because I am willing to "wing it" now that my daughter isn't coming. But the one reservation that I might not be able to change - is Orisson. I already sent in a new reservation request on wrote on it that I had a reservation for 2 a couple days later that would need to be changed/cancelled. But at 4 weeks away - I don't know if there will be any space for me at Orisson (and of course - I won't get a quick reply on my reservation request). I do know my other options on the Frances route - should I not be able to stay at Orisson.

But, if I can't get the Orisson reservation changed to the new date, I will have to outright cancel the current reservation - that leads me to one last MAJOR dilemma. Do I continue planning for Frances or do I switch to the Norte route? Should I go on the Frances again to experience a normal Frances route? To see the things I didn't get to see/do last time? Or should I do the route I haven't done before and start in Bayonne? I already know Frances is likely to be very crowded, but will the Norte also be very crowded (for the Norte)? Will I be able to find enough cheap lodging to keep my costs down? Will I be too cold on the Norte? (I had an unseasonably cold June/July last year on the Frances). I do get cold very easily. But I do have a down puffy and can pack warmer layers if needed. Also - it looks like I would miss a lot of Sarria to Santiago, is that right? (I did NOT like Sarria to Santiago lol too many large groups). Will a crowded Frances ruin the Frances for me after a blissful not-crowded Frances? haha. What should I do? (LOL - OK - I know you aren't me... but what would YOU do?). I mean - Norte is new but I feel like I haven't truly experienced Frances either.

I should add... I am also planning to walk to Finisterre/Muxia... and now that my daughter isn't coming - I will probably keep walking to Porto before coming home! So - I will get my coast either way. Anyhow - I arrive in Bayonne May 25th - so would start walking on either the 26th or 27th depending on whether or not I want to do a short day on the 26th (which is the plan if I get the reservation for Orisson).

Oh the dilemma of too many good choices!

You should just do it and not worry ,
I'm currently on the Norte and is quiet bit is beautiful

 

[MinaKamina]

This is a great map! Where can I get it and are there more maps for the rest of the caminos?
Thanks!

Google pictures is my friend.

By bike from more or less the North Pole, or Malta, or Moskow to SdC:

 

[MinaKamina]

This is a great map! Where can I get it and are there more maps for the rest of the caminos?
Thanks!

Or a few Caminos in Spain, from all corners:

 

[Tiffany Linda]

Yeah... not worried about losing the Orrison money. I figure they might still be playing catch up from COVID losses anyway. I sent the new change request BEFORE I realized I can switch routes without daughter.

Thanks for the suggestions! Trying to stay on a budget - but I do have play room not that daughter isn't coming. She was supposed to pay for herself - but at 18 - I was planning to pick up the slack because she would probably under-save or over-spend haha.

Can you change room request to 1. I'm finding lower price. Rooms same as for 2..

 

[eirenearchos]

So - After having to cancel my first Camino twice due to COVID - I was able to go at the last minute in June 2021 when Spain reopened to Vaccinated US Citizens. I arrived in Spain on the same day it opened to US vaccinated citizens and made my way to St Jean Pied de Port. When I began my walk - there were VERY few people on the trails. I never had a problem with full albergues (well not before Sarria) - but figuring out which albergues were still open was the challenge. Also, lots of stuff that is normally open, were closed or had reduced hours - making it hard to see things along the way (well - we got to see the outside of everything lol). I walked alone most of the time - and could go hours without seeing another soul on many days. I did meet people got to know many - but it wasn't your usual "Frances route" experience. Anyhow - it was still a great experience - and it was exactly what I needed last summer because I was so burnt out from a nightmare year at work (my work has revolved around COVID for 2+ years now).

Fast forward to February 2022. My daughter and I decided to do the Frances route this summer. I picked Frances again because 1) I didn't really experience a normal Frances Route Camino. I am curious as to what it is like when lots of people are on the trail and when I can stop at all the places I had to skip last summer. 2) It is my daughters 1st Camino - and I feel Frances is best for a 1st Camino - and with her being 18 - I felt she would meet lots of people her age-20's to hang out with (and walk with them instead of mom). And 3) I felt it was the most affordable route for 2 people to walk together. Daughter is paying for herself - and I knew she could stick to a smaller budget on the Frances. SO.... I booked airfare to Paris, reserved 2 nights in Paris (so she can go to the catacombs and a few other places we missed when she went with me last time). I also booked our plane tickets to Biarritz and the first week of reservations (because I know my daughter well enough to know I NEED to know where we are staying the first week until she settles into the route).

Fast forward to Tuesday - after weeks of second guessing our summer plans - daughter decided she wants to go separately. She wants to work for 1 more month before she quits her job. But she still wants to go on the Camino and return closer to when she heads off to college. So - she bought a new ticket to Paris and a new train ticket to Bayonne. Which leads ME to changing MY plans. I have no interest in hanging out in Paris - so I cancelled my Paris reservations and bought a new train ticket to Bayonne and have a hotel reserved that night in Bayonne.

Anyhow - all this craziness leaves me with having to adjust all the other reservations I made! I can outright cancel some - because I am willing to "wing it" now that my daughter isn't coming. But the one reservation that I might not be able to change - is Orisson. I already sent in a new reservation request on wrote on it that I had a reservation for 2 a couple days later that would need to be changed/cancelled. But at 4 weeks away - I don't know if there will be any space for me at Orisson (and of course - I won't get a quick reply on my reservation request). I do know my other options on the Frances route - should I not be able to stay at Orisson.

But, if I can't get the Orisson reservation changed to the new date, I will have to outright cancel the current reservation - that leads me to one last MAJOR dilemma. Do I continue planning for Frances or do I switch to the Norte route? Should I go on the Frances again to experience a normal Frances route? To see the things I didn't get to see/do last time? Or should I do the route I haven't done before and start in Bayonne? I already know Frances is likely to be very crowded, but will the Norte also be very crowded (for the Norte)? Will I be able to find enough cheap lodging to keep my costs down? Will I be too cold on the Norte? (I had an unseasonably cold June/July last year on the Frances). I do get cold very easily. But I do have a down puffy and can pack warmer layers if needed. Also - it looks like I would miss a lot of Sarria to Santiago, is that right? (I did NOT like Sarria to Santiago lol too many large groups). Will a crowded Frances ruin the Frances for me after a blissful not-crowded Frances? haha. What should I do? (LOL - OK - I know you aren't me... but what would YOU do?). I mean - Norte is new but I feel like I haven't truly experienced Frances either.

I should add... I am also planning to walk to Finisterre/Muxia... and now that my daughter isn't coming - I will probably keep walking to Porto before coming home! So - I will get my coast either way. Anyhow - I arrive in Bayonne May 25th - so would start walking on either the 26th or 27th depending on whether or not I want to do a short day on the 26th (which is the plan if I get the reservation for Orisson).

Oh the dilemma of too many good choices!

there is so much here! I walked in mid February 2022 so I too felt that sole pilgrim experience. But for me it was a blessing. I can't deal with crowds I get very anxious. I had a glorious experience. I think for some the Camino should be walked in silence, alone, as an ascetic introspective journey inward as well as outward. For others esp the young it would be good to go in groups. But pilgrimage in general is one of connecting with something Higher within and without oneself. I have created a post camino workshop experience that helps people do just that --go inward through the outward journey. I am posting it on the Forums. stay tuned

 

[Former member 92300]

My only advice is: never, ever plan to do a Camino with someone else.
It can become a major issue if you are a planner. I had a friend who wanted me to be her guide on the CF, it would have been her first. I carefully planned the trip and made quite few forward reservations at my “favorite” places. She decided not to go about 2 weeks before the departure date. I made the decision to follow my original itinerary rather than pine over what could have been.
Stay the plan, there are many years ahead of you to try other routes.

Yep! Well - I wanted to "wean" away from travelling with family to independence (go with me but walk separately) - but she is being a pain in the you know what - so I went ahead and let her change. I did make her first week reservations for her so she can learn to navigate her way before having to worry about where to sleep. I think that will have to be a good enough transition (reservations made with HER debit card - not mine haha). I do feel comfortably with her walking alone - once she settles into the routine of a Camino. And I will still be in Spain - but at the END of my Camino. So - if she needs something - I am not an ocean and over half the US country away.

 

[Former member 92300]

I wouldn't let the Orisson reservation determine your Camino.

It's not that I was letting Orisson determine my Camino - more like I wasn't sure I wanted to do the Frances if I couldn't stop at Orisson. I didn't want to walk the entire first day. I didn't want to shuttle half way. I didn't want to take Valcarlos. And I didn't want to start in Roncesvalles or later. Last year my health wasn't such that I was comfortable doing the entire 1st day (heart health wise). This year - I am sure I "COULD" do it... but WHY? Day 1 is hard enough divided over 2 days haha.

And then there is the fact that - I just like Orisson! And the "getting to know you" dinner.

Anyhow - physically I know I can do any route now...

 

[Former member 92300]

As for changing your mind my reasoning is - losing your deposit on 1 or 2 nights is nothing compared to the overall cost of your trip (is this the Sunk Cost Fallacy?).

Thanks! No - my thought process wasn't about losing my deposit. In fact - I lost much more money on her plane ticket she is no longer using - and I probably won't get refunded by the travel insurance (at least - not counting on it).

 

[Former member 92300]

Can you change room request to 1. I'm finding lower price. Rooms same as for 2..

I was changing dates too - I wasn't sure if they had any vacancies for my new date.

 

[Former member 92300]

Thanks everyone! I had been going back and forth on this for the last couple weeks as I knew my daughter was considering backing out - and moreso since I finally helped her get a new plane ticket.

Even this morning - I was totally trying to convince myself to switch to the Norte - since I had never done it and the ocean walk would be beautiful. I was starting to get excited about the Norte - but something was just telling me not to do it unless changing dates at Orisson fell through. Silly how the one reservation can change everything for me. Makes no sense, really. But the more I researched Norte - the more worried I got about weather (I get cold easily), scarcity of cheap lodging (and it not being the months when EVERYTHING is open) - and more than that - the lack of people on the trail. Last year - that would have been heavenly for me, and that is what I got for the Frances. This year - I was looking forward to meeting more people and not walking alone as much as I did last year.

So - I finally heard back from Orisson and they were able to make the change! Yay! I was worried because so many albergues that take reservations are full in the first several stages. Anyhow - they did have space to move my date! So - booked Bayonne (arrive from Paris at midnight). Will head to St. Jean in the AM, pick up some poles, and then head to Orisson. I was able to change dates for Roncesvalles - but they kept both reservations (so - I guess some lucky pilgrim I meet along the way may get a free stay in Roncesvalles lol). Now I just need one more reservation around Zubiri to Larrasoana and I will be all set!

I will see how I do with the crowds on the Frances. If I find that they are just too much - will change to the Norte.

 

[Richard of York]

The crowds on the Francés don't start until Sarria. Seriously don't worry about that.

 

[Phil W]

I think many of us have the "plan" and as @Corned Beef mentions, the plan is often changed (sometimes even before we begin). There are many uncertainties in life and it seems even more so lately. None the less, some of us are more comfortable than others with risk, change, and uncertainty. I always have plan A, B, C, etc. and my husband just goes along with whatever the flow is going to be. He did have to "count" the days we will be in Spain this summer so he can figure out how many days he can go back for this fall by himself on a tourist visa though so he does have some planning sensibilities.

Yes, Janet always has plan A, B, C and so on. As she said, I do like to go with the flow although I do use her plans. She is the planner, I'm the smell the flowers guy, stop and talk with a nice stranger about what ever we want.

Phil

 

[Former member 92300]

Yes, Janet always has plan A, B, C and so on. As she said, I do like to go with the flow although I do use her plans. She is the planner, I'm the smell the flowers guy, stop and talk with a nice stranger about what ever we want.

Phil

Yes - I plan - alter plan - scrap the plan - I can usually be very flexible and go with the flow in most circumstances.

Since I decided to go ahead and start by walking SJDPD to Orisson the first day - I am not fighting the urge to make reservations beyond Zubiri. It is funny because I know I made it Zubiri to Pamplona early enough in the day to stay at the municipal last year - and that the municipal has plenty of beds for those who aren't late arrivers - but it is still a struggle not to reserve Pamplona too! Actually - I would really like to walk to the next town (Cizur Menor?) - but there aren't as many beds there - so not sure I want to risk it? Because the next place to stop (inexpensively) is quite a bit further down the road. Would kind of like to get off the stages around then.

 

[C clearly]

She is the planner, I'm the smell the flowers guy, stop and talk with a nice stranger about what ever we want.

Planning does not need to mean rigidity or absence of rose-smelling and chats. Planning helps me see my options in advance, so that I CAN have time for those activities, and it is easier to adjust to spontaneous changes.

 

[Phil W]

Actually - I would really like to walk to the next town (Cizur Menor?) - but there aren't as many beds there - so not sure I want to risk it? Because the next place to stop (inexpensively) is quite a bit further down the road. Would kind of like to get off the stages around then.

I really understand wanting to get off the stages as well as looking for inexpensive places to stay. Last fall I wanted to not reserve a bed unless necessary or to stay in a place that I had liked before. When wondering if there was a bed available, I called the albergue and in my halting (I was going to say childish but didn't want to lower their ability) Spanish inquired about beds. Only had a problem once and it was due to a national holiday causing all the private facilities to be full. Luckily there was a parochial donativo albergue and I was able to get one of their last beds.

Phil

 

[Phil W]

Planning does not need to mean rigidity or absence of rose-smelling and chats. Planning helps me see my options in advance, so that I CAN have time for those activities, and it is easier to adjust to spontaneous changes.

I agree. Janet is my wife, partner, and is willing to plan our adventures. I would be lost without her.
Phil

 

[Miki Goldie]

So - After having to cancel my first Camino twice due to COVID - I was able to go at the last minute in June 2021 when Spain reopened to Vaccinated US Citizens. I arrived in Spain on the same day it opened to US vaccinated citizens and made my way to St Jean Pied de Port. When I began my walk - there were VERY few people on the trails. I never had a problem with full albergues (well not before Sarria) - but figuring out which albergues were still open was the challenge. Also, lots of stuff that is normally open, were closed or had reduced hours - making it hard to see things along the way (well - we got to see the outside of everything lol). I walked alone most of the time - and could go hours without seeing another soul on many days. I did meet people got to know many - but it wasn't your usual "Frances route" experience. Anyhow - it was still a great experience - and it was exactly what I needed last summer because I was so burnt out from a nightmare year at work (my work has revolved around COVID for 2+ years now).

Fast forward to February 2022. My daughter and I decided to do the Frances route this summer. I picked Frances again because 1) I didn't really experience a normal Frances Route Camino. I am curious as to what it is like when lots of people are on the trail and when I can stop at all the places I had to skip last summer. 2) It is my daughters 1st Camino - and I feel Frances is best for a 1st Camino - and with her being 18 - I felt she would meet lots of people her age-20's to hang out with (and walk with them instead of mom). And 3) I felt it was the most affordable route for 2 people to walk together. Daughter is paying for herself - and I knew she could stick to a smaller budget on the Frances. SO.... I booked airfare to Paris, reserved 2 nights in Paris (so she can go to the catacombs and a few other places we missed when she went with me last time). I also booked our plane tickets to Biarritz and the first week of reservations (because I know my daughter well enough to know I NEED to know where we are staying the first week until she settles into the route).

Fast forward to Tuesday - after weeks of second guessing our summer plans - daughter decided she wants to go separately. She wants to work for 1 more month before she quits her job. But she still wants to go on the Camino and return closer to when she heads off to college. So - she bought a new ticket to Paris and a new train ticket to Bayonne. Which leads ME to changing MY plans. I have no interest in hanging out in Paris - so I cancelled my Paris reservations and bought a new train ticket to Bayonne and have a hotel reserved that night in Bayonne.

Anyhow - all this craziness leaves me with having to adjust all the other reservations I made! I can outright cancel some - because I am willing to "wing it" now that my daughter isn't coming. But the one reservation that I might not be able to change - is Orisson. I already sent in a new reservation request on wrote on it that I had a reservation for 2 a couple days later that would need to be changed/cancelled. But at 4 weeks away - I don't know if there will be any space for me at Orisson (and of course - I won't get a quick reply on my reservation request). I do know my other options on the Frances route - should I not be able to stay at Orisson.

But, if I can't get the Orisson reservation changed to the new date, I will have to outright cancel the current reservation - that leads me to one last MAJOR dilemma. Do I continue planning for Frances or do I switch to the Norte route? Should I go on the Frances again to experience a normal Frances route? To see the things I didn't get to see/do last time? Or should I do the route I haven't done before and start in Bayonne? I already know Frances is likely to be very crowded, but will the Norte also be very crowded (for the Norte)? Will I be able to find enough cheap lodging to keep my costs down? Will I be too cold on the Norte? (I had an unseasonably cold June/July last year on the Frances). I do get cold very easily. But I do have a down puffy and can pack warmer layers if needed. Also - it looks like I would miss a lot of Sarria to Santiago, is that right? (I did NOT like Sarria to Santiago lol too many large groups). Will a crowded Frances ruin the Frances for me after a blissful not-crowded Frances? haha. What should I do? (LOL - OK - I know you aren't me... but what would YOU do?). I mean - Norte is new but I feel like I haven't truly experienced Frances either.

I should add... I am also planning to walk to Finisterre/Muxia... and now that my daughter isn't coming - I will probably keep walking to Porto before coming home! So - I will get my coast either way. Anyhow - I arrive in Bayonne May 25th - so would start walking on either the 26th or 27th depending on whether or not I want to do a short day on the 26th (which is the plan if I get the reservation for Orisson).

Oh the dilemma of too many good choices!

One little point about walking to Porto, I would catch a bus to Porto & start there, so you are going with the flow of pilgrims not againgst the flow to Santiago. Buen Camino.
love

 

[Canche]

So - After having to cancel my first Camino twice due to COVID - I was able to go at the last minute in June 2021 when Spain reopened to Vaccinated US Citizens. I arrived in Spain on the same day it opened to US vaccinated citizens and made my way to St Jean Pied de Port. When I began my walk - there were VERY few people on the trails. I never had a problem with full albergues (well not before Sarria) - but figuring out which albergues were still open was the challenge. Also, lots of stuff that is normally open, were closed or had reduced hours - making it hard to see things along the way (well - we got to see the outside of everything lol). I walked alone most of the time - and could go hours without seeing another soul on many days. I did meet people got to know many - but it wasn't your usual "Frances route" experience. Anyhow - it was still a great experience - and it was exactly what I needed last summer because I was so burnt out from a nightmare year at work (my work has revolved around COVID for 2+ years now).

Fast forward to February 2022. My daughter and I decided to do the Frances route this summer. I picked Frances again because 1) I didn't really experience a normal Frances Route Camino. I am curious as to what it is like when lots of people are on the trail and when I can stop at all the places I had to skip last summer. 2) It is my daughters 1st Camino - and I feel Frances is best for a 1st Camino - and with her being 18 - I felt she would meet lots of people her age-20's to hang out with (and walk with them instead of mom). And 3) I felt it was the most affordable route for 2 people to walk together. Daughter is paying for herself - and I knew she could stick to a smaller budget on the Frances. SO.... I booked airfare to Paris, reserved 2 nights in Paris (so she can go to the catacombs and a few other places we missed when she went with me last time). I also booked our plane tickets to Biarritz and the first week of reservations (because I know my daughter well enough to know I NEED to know where we are staying the first week until she settles into the route).

Fast forward to Tuesday - after weeks of second guessing our summer plans - daughter decided she wants to go separately. She wants to work for 1 more month before she quits her job. But she still wants to go on the Camino and return closer to when she heads off to college. So - she bought a new ticket to Paris and a new train ticket to Bayonne. Which leads ME to changing MY plans. I have no interest in hanging out in Paris - so I cancelled my Paris reservations and bought a new train ticket to Bayonne and have a hotel reserved that night in Bayonne.

Anyhow - all this craziness leaves me with having to adjust all the other reservations I made! I can outright cancel some - because I am willing to "wing it" now that my daughter isn't coming. But the one reservation that I might not be able to change - is Orisson. I already sent in a new reservation request on wrote on it that I had a reservation for 2 a couple days later that would need to be changed/cancelled. But at 4 weeks away - I don't know if there will be any space for me at Orisson (and of course - I won't get a quick reply on my reservation request). I do know my other options on the Frances route - should I not be able to stay at Orisson.

But, if I can't get the Orisson reservation changed to the new date, I will have to outright cancel the current reservation - that leads me to one last MAJOR dilemma. Do I continue planning for Frances or do I switch to the Norte route? Should I go on the Frances again to experience a normal Frances route? To see the things I didn't get to see/do last time? Or should I do the route I haven't done before and start in Bayonne? I already know Frances is likely to be very crowded, but will the Norte also be very crowded (for the Norte)? Will I be able to find enough cheap lodging to keep my costs down? Will I be too cold on the Norte? (I had an unseasonably cold June/July last year on the Frances). I do get cold very easily. But I do have a down puffy and can pack warmer layers if needed. Also - it looks like I would miss a lot of Sarria to Santiago, is that right? (I did NOT like Sarria to Santiago lol too many large groups). Will a crowded Frances ruin the Frances for me after a blissful not-crowded Frances? haha. What should I do? (LOL - OK - I know you aren't me... but what would YOU do?). I mean - Norte is new but I feel like I haven't truly experienced Frances either.

I should add... I am also planning to walk to Finisterre/Muxia... and now that my daughter isn't coming - I will probably keep walking to Porto before coming home! So - I will get my coast either way. Anyhow - I arrive in Bayonne May 25th - so would start walking on either the 26th or 27th depending on whether or not I want to do a short day on the 26th (which is the plan if I get the reservation for Orisson).

Oh the dilemma of too many good choices!

I like the Norte better. Very beautiful and less crowded.

 

[Former member 92300]

I like the Norte better. Very beautiful and less crowded.

I will probably do Norte next time!

 

[Canche]

I will probably do Norte next time!

Good idea.

 

[Former member 92300]

So here I am - only 3 weeks left until my departure and I am still waffling about which routes to do! Frances to Portuguese and maybe Finisterre at the end (would bus from Santiago to Porto and walk back) or Norte to Portuguese and maybe Finisterre if I still have time. I think I make a decision - then I rethink "maybe I SHOULD do the other route" Haha. I have my reservation to Orisson and then Roncesvalles - wouldn't get refunded even if I cancelled (well - definitely not Orisson, Roncesvalles is hit or miss I seem to recall). I have a few reservations after that - which I DO have plenty of time to cancel and give someone else the spots. I just can't seem to turn my brain off to decide 100% which way I want to go - because they both draw me in (Frances and Norte) for different reasons. Yes - I am totally overthinking and no, I can't seem to make myself stop doing that! At this rate - I don't think the decision will be made until after I arrive in Bayonne and get a good (hopefully) night sleep. I am supposed to take the 11ish am train to SJPDP so I can buy my poles and begin my walk to Orisson. Will I get on the train? At this point, who knows!

And yes - if I don't get on that train - I WILL notify Orisson/Roncesvalles and anyone else right away that I am cancelling. Ugh - the downside of making reservations because you know it is going to be crowded is this. I really thought I would be settled on this by now! Oh well - whatever happens, it is sure to be an adventure!

 

[Anamya]

The Portuguese was my favourite route until now, I think it would be a lovely (and food-plentiful) experience after the Frances

You Frances-Portugues-Finisteree plan sounds amazing. But then, you have a lot of time to adapt once you get there. You have sorted the very start, it's all good, see how you feel after that. More than your daughter, you are also an adult with your own time and money. Do whatever you feel like

 

[Mito]

there is so much here! I walked in mid February 2022 so I too felt that sole pilgrim experience. But for me it was a blessing. I can't deal with crowds I get very anxious. I had a glorious experience. I think for some the Camino should be walked in silence, alone, as an ascetic introspective journey inward as well as outward. For others esp the young it would be good to go in groups. But pilgrimage in general is one of connecting with something Higher within and without oneself. I have created a post camino workshop experience that helps people do just that --go inward through the outward journey. I am posting it on the Forums. stay tuned

I’m with you. The fewer people the better for me! It’s a personal thing. I think if you enjoyed the solitude you had when you did the Camino in 2021, you weren’t missing anything! Go for a route that will give you that quiet experience again. I think you’ll be disappointed with crowds.

 

[Former member 92300]

I’m with you. The fewer people the better for me! It’s a personal thing. I think if you enjoyed the solitude you had when you did the Camino in 2021, you weren’t missing anything! Go for a route that will give you that quiet experience again. I think you’ll be disappointed with crowds.

Yep - that is what I ended up doing. I didn't decide until I was well along my route to Bayonne - and even when I arrived I still wasn't 100% sure until I decided to get on a train to Hendaye instead of SJPDP. I took the Norte - and then at Oviedo I switched to the Primitivo. I enjoyed the Norte a lot - but I missed the "Camino Spirit" that I experienced on the Frances. Where the Norte lacked the Camino Spirit - the Primitivo route totally made up for it! I got plenty of solitude, but in the evenings I was able to socialize much more on the Primitivo. Not EVERY night - but enough to get to know other pilgrims and enjoy their company.

That said - it was cold from Hendaye to Santiago - with the exception of 3-4 days of a heat wave. By the time I got to Santiago - I decided to skip the Portuguese route and headed to Sicily for warmth instead!

My daughter on the other hand was several weeks behind me - on the Frances though - and she had lots of fires and a really long excessive heat wave to deal with -

 

[Bradypus]

I enjoyed the Norte a lot - but I missed the "Camino Spirit" that I experienced on the Frances. Where the Norte lacked the Camino Spirit - the Primitivo route totally made up for it!

My first Camino was the Camino Frances and it was a very solitary experience. Often walking several days at a time without encountering another pilgrim. For me it is a remarkable sign of change in the way people understand a pilgrimage that "Camino Spirit" is now so closely identified with one's interactions with other pilgrims. On that first journey I never felt lonely though I rarely encountered another walker. For me then and now the distinctive spirit of the Camino is a sense of continuity and fellowship with those who have walked before me over the years. They do not have to be physically present to be real to me. When a friend at home asked if I had been lonely while walking the Camino it took me a few moments to understand the question. The thought had never crossed my mind.

 

[Former member 92300]

My first Camino was the Camino Frances and it was a very solitary experience. Often walking several days at a time without encountering another pilgrim. For me it is a remarkable sign of change in the way people understand a pilgrimage that "Camino Spirit" is now so closely identified with one's interactions with other pilgrims. On that first journey I never felt lonely though I rarely encountered another walker. For me then and now the distinctive spirit of the Camino is a sense of continuity and fellowship with those who have walked before me over the years. They do not have to be physically present to be real to me. When a friend at home asked if I had been lonely while walking the Camino it took me a few moments to understand the question. The thought had never crossed my mind.

My first Camino on the Frances there were only about 30 of us walking the same stages (COVID) - so I often walked completely alone for hours or even days at a time. There were even nights where I was the only person in an albergue. Same on the Norte (except I was only "alone" in private rooms on the Norte). There were more people walking the same stages on the Primitivo - but I don't know by how much. That said - I was usually among the first out the door and walked alone. I LOVE THE SOLITARY ASPECT. I am not referring to loneliness - I like being alone (almost all the time lol - I did have a few moments). In that respect - they (all three routes) were the same. I enjoyed my solitary as I walked.

It isn't so much the interactions with other pilgrims - it is also the interactions of the communities along the way that are supporting the pilgrims. The difference was - on the Norte - I was a pilgrim walking through regular towns/cities/communities that didn't have anything to do with the Camino. They were regular towns, cities, villages - that went about their normal business. They were full of "tourists" much moreso than "pilgrims". And with the tourists - it felt very different than it felt on the Frances where most people you met were either locals or pilgrims. If I wasn't in an albergue - it felt more like a long walk. It didn't feel like a pilgrimage. The beaches were beautiful - but I didn't feel the Camino Spirit during that part of the journey. That is what I am referring to.

On the Frances and the Primitivo - I walked alone most of the time, as I did on the Norte. That is how I prefer to walk. But - whether I went to an albergue or a pension or a hotel - they knew I was a pilgrim. If I went to a bar or a restaurant, they assumed I was a pilgrim. If I met other non-locals - they were usually pilgrims. And with that - the interactions I DID have were VERY different. From a bar owner who went out of his way when I asked if there will be more food options available at dinner time - he snuck me upstairs to the closed dining room and his wife made a special plate just for me. He also invited me back at 7am and told me he would have breakfast ready for me so I could get a good start to the morning. Then there was the time I was looking for a place to stay and lots of places were closed - and some gentleman from the bar a few doors down told me to stay put and someone ran and got a young man to open the albergue for me. Then there was the time I stayed in an albergue attached to an old church - the church was closed but the caretaker invited me for a tour. Those were on the Frances and the Finisterre route. On the Primitivo - I was leaving the last big town late in the afternoon - and a local lady who had just come home from shopping was worried about me leaving the town so late and offered me her home for a shower, a rest, some food, or even a bed for the night. I graciously declined as I knew I could get to where I was going - but it was amazing that this total stranger was worried for me and willing to offer her home and care to me. And yes - getting to know other pilgrims that you can share a meal with and get to know was important too... THAT is what I am talking about when I speak of "Camino Spirit". It isn't just about being with pilgrims and socializing as I often didn't socialize much even in the evenings - but being able to socialize when I wanted to made the Frances and Primitivo much more pleasant. The Norte was just different. Beautiful and I am glad I walked it - but I loved my experiences on the other two routes.

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

My first Camino was the Camino Frances and it was a very solitary experience. Often walking several days at a time without encountering another pilgrim. For me it is a remarkable sign of change in the way people understand a pilgrimage that "Camino Spirit" is now so closely identified with one's interactions with other pilgrims. On that first journey I never felt lonely though I rarely encountered another walker. For me then and now the distinctive spirit of the Camino is a sense of continuity and fellowship with those who have walked before me over the years. They do not have to be physically present to be real to me. When a friend at home asked if I had been lonely while walking the Camino it took me a few moments to understand the question. The thought had never crossed my mind.

Best thing about my recent Salvador was the absence of companions while I walked and the small number of people at the stopping points at night. I was never lonely, and even found that the 8 or so walkers when I was out there felt like “a lot”. Maybe it was that most were more like “hikers” than pilgrims — as in Oviedo was of no interest… only the terrain and the speed and the elevations seemed to matter to about 60%… One incredible man who spoke almost not at all kept paying for everyone and expected nothing in return. Two older men were lovely and kind and our only common language was partial Spanish… we shared some meals and watched out for each other in a general way in the more dangerous areas… But I have no interest in racing from way-point to way-point, nor in “bonding” in some kind of strange geriatric summer camp. I know I will never have it in me to do the Salvador again (it’s physically so so challenging, and I’m not great with heights), but it was perfect in its general lack of people. The primitivo, by contrast was very busy, much more so than I had anticipated. I’m ever more keen on the shoulder season times — when the “camino spirit” (i.e., cliques and drama) is less in play.

 

[Former member 92300]

Best thing about my recent Salvador was the absence of companions while I walked and the small number of people at the stopping points at night. I was never lonely, and even found that the 8 or so walkers when I was out there felt like “a lot”. Maybe it was that most were more like “hikers” than pilgrims — as in Oviedo was of no interest… only the terrain and the speed and the elevations seemed to matter to about 60%… One incredible man who spoke almost not at all kept paying for everyone and expected nothing in return. Two older men were lovely and kind and our only common language was partial Spanish… we shared some meals and watched out for each other in a general way in the more dangerous areas… But I have no interest in racing from way-point to way-point, nor in “bonding” in some kind of strange geriatric summer camp. I know I will never have it in me to do the Salvador again (it’s physically so so challenging, and I’m not great with heights), but it was perfect in its general lack of people. The primitivo, by contrast was very busy, much more so than I had anticipated. I’m ever more keen on the shoulder season times — when the “camino spirit” (i.e., cliques and drama) is less in play.

If you read my reply to bradypus - you would see that the "Camino Spirit" I am referring to is in no way just simply some "'bonding' in some kind of strange geriatric summer camp" or "cliques and drama".

That (bonding) may be a small part of it, but the 'Camino Spirit' is so much more than just meeting new friends. BTW - I managed 2 month long Caminos and had no interactions/experiences with others that were even close clique-ish or drama producing. Quite the contrary - those of us walking on the same stages ran into each other off and on - and while there were some clear close nit groups - those of us on the fringes (who didn't hang in groups regularly) were always made to feel welcome and as if we can join in on the fun at any time - for as little or as much time as wanted. And only one time in both Caminos did I walk with someone for many hours. As I said - most of the time I walked alone. And if I did walk with someone or in a group - I usually only did so for maybe 20 minutes. Only a couple of days I walked off and on with people throughout the day or got into a longer conversation. I loved my solitude while walking. And I loved my solitude in the evenings on many days. But I did like to get together with others ONCE IN A WHILE. And who said anything about "racing from way-point to way-point". I got up and walked when I wanted to walk. I stopped when I wanted to stop during the day. And I ended my walk when I wanted to stop. I never competed with anyone in distance or speed - in fact - in my first Camino I was clearly walking slower at the beginning than many. And I rarely heard someone ask "how long did it take you to get from here to there?" - and if I did hear that - it was simply because it was a grueling hike that day and people were just curious. Not competitive.

Anyhow - even though there were more people on the Primitivo when I walked - I started my walk early and most days I didn't see anyone, much less walk with anyone.

 

[AnneMarie1]

So many options! Maybe do the Argonnes to CF and then the Invierno to avoid CF crowds. That way you will get the CF and miss the early and late route crowds and pinch points, but still get a good taste of it from Puenta la Reina to Ponferrada. If you can afford it, maybe just lose the Orrison money? The Norte and Primativo would also be good options. Less lodging and more expensive though if that matters.

That's exactly what my plan is -- begin at Somport and walk to Ponferrada and then Invierno! Assuming no problems or injuries, of course.

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

If you read my reply to bradypus - you would see that the "Camino Spirit" I am referring to is in no way just simply some "'bonding' in some kind of strange geriatric summer camp" or "cliques and drama".

That (bonding) may be a small part of it, but the 'Camino Spirit' is so much more than just meeting new friends. BTW - I managed 2 month long Caminos and had no interactions/experiences with others that were even close clique-ish or drama producing. Quite the contrary - those of us walking on the same stages ran into each other off and on - and while there were some clear close nit groups - those of us on the fringes (who didn't hang in groups regularly) were always made to feel welcome and as if we can join in on the fun at any time - for as little or as much time as wanted. And only one time in both Caminos did I walk with someone for many hours. As I said - most of the time I walked alone. And if I did walk with someone or in a group - I usually only did so for maybe 20 minutes. Only a couple of days I walked off and on with people throughout the day or got into a longer conversation. I loved my solitude while walking. And I loved my solitude in the evenings on many days. But I did like to get together with others ONCE IN A WHILE. And who said anything about "racing from way-point to way-point". I got up and walked when I wanted to walk. I stopped when I wanted to stop during the day. And I ended my walk when I wanted to stop. I never competed with anyone in distance or speed - in fact - in my first Camino I was clearly walking slower at the beginning than many. And I rarely heard someone ask "how long did it take you to get from here to there?" - and if I did hear that - it was simply because it was a grueling hike that day and people were just curious. Not competitive.

Anyhow - even though there were more people on the Primitivo when I walked - I started my walk early and most days I didn't see anyone, much less walk with anyone.

I do think that the "camino spirit" is bigger than cliques and drama, but my experience with 2 walks on the Frances versus 3 other routes is that there is an ever-increasing amount of "Who do you think is the *prettiest* person we've met?" and "Did you hear that so-and-so and so-and-so shared shower beer?" (considering that I was one of the named parties for shower beer, and had actually been writing in my journal in happy solitude and the person who started the rumour was making trouble for lots of people, sometimes dangerous trouble, I think people need to know that just because people have gone out to walk does not mean they will be welcome companions or easy to get away from) and "Please, please make sure that when you see 'X' [whom I'm refusing to see is purposely outrunning me every day] that you give her my contact information [again]."

I've encountered "more* of this drama in the age group just one "demographic category" above mine -- perhaps seeking a "second act"-- than I have in the age groups younger than mine.

It's just a caution for those reading the thread that people are paying a lot of money to travel very far away to hang out with the same people/language groups as they do at home... that more and more are complaining that Spain follows Spanish customs around meal times and shop closing times, etc. If people want to avoid that kind of problem there are other options.

Quieter routes, or in the shoulder seasons... on can encounter a camino spirit with a better signal-to-noise ratio. Of course, I worry that the popularity of Camino walking could create over-crowding on any/all route(s) within a decade.

 

[AnneMarie1]

I do think that the "camino spirit" is bigger than cliques and drama, but my experience with 2 walks on the Frances versus 3 other routes is that there is an ever-increasing amount of "Who do you think is the *prettiest* person we've met?" and "Did you hear that so-and-so and so-and-so shared shower beer?" (considering that I was one of the named parties for shower beer, and had actually been writing in my journal in happy solitude and the person who started the rumour was making trouble for lots of people, sometimes dangerous trouble, I think people need to know that just because people have gone out to walk does not mean they will be welcome companions or easy to get away from) and "Please, please make sure that when you see 'X' [whom I'm refusing to see is purposely outrunning me every day] that you give her my contact information [again]."

I've encountered "more* of this drama in the age group just one "demographic category" above mine -- perhaps seeking a "second act"-- than I have in the age groups younger than mine.

It's just a caution for those reading the thread that people are paying a lot of money to travel very far away to hang out with the same people/language groups as they do at home... that more and more are complaining that Spain follows Spanish customs around meal times and shop closing times, etc. If people want to avoid that kind of problem there are other options.

Quieter routes, or in the shoulder seasons... on can encounter a camino spirit with a better signal-to-noise ratio. Of course, I worry that the popularity of Camino walking could create over-crowding on any/all route(s) within a decade.

I'm returning to the Camino this spring after doing it (or at least a lot of it) in 2001, and reading this kind of observation makes me sad because it SO wasn't like that "back in the day," but also grateful to you for posting this so I can kind of brace myself for this new reality. I have zero interest in hanging out with people who are complaining about Spanish customs (!) or spreading rumors about others, etc. I have lived in Spain, LOVE Spain, and speak Spanish, so I might just make a point of hanging out only with Spaniards and pretend to any obnoxious Americans/Brits/Australians/etc. that I don't speak English. That could actually be kind of a fun game to play, I imagine. I am already planning on 2 quieter routes (Aragonese and Invierno), although I think walking in May and June means the traffic on the main route will still be pretty high. I share your worry about overcrowding if current trends keep going. Seems like when I did it before, I didn't meet anyone who had done multiple Caminos. There were Spaniards who did a little bit every year, but no one who'd done a half dozen or a dozen Caminos. Most people seemed to do it thinking of it as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Maybe to reduce crowding and preserve some semblance of a Camino experience for others, repeaters should back off some. (I say this as someone planning to do it again, but after 22 years, so that's different!)

 

[Arctic_Alex]

I'm returning to the Camino this spring after doing it (or at least a lot of it) in 2001, and reading this kind of observation makes me sad because it SO wasn't like that "back in the day," but also grateful to you for posting this so I can kind of brace myself for this new reality. I have zero interest in hanging out with people who are complaining about Spanish customs (!) or spreading rumors about others, etc. I have lived in Spain, LOVE Spain, and speak Spanish, so I might just make a point of hanging out only with Spaniards and pretend to any obnoxious Americans/Brits/Australians/etc. that I don't speak English. That could actually be kind of a fun game to play, I imagine. I am already planning on 2 quieter routes (Aragonese and Invierno), although I think walking in May and June means the traffic on the main route will still be pretty high. I share your worry about overcrowding if current trends keep going. Seems like when I did it before, I didn't meet anyone who had done multiple Caminos. There were Spaniards who did a little bit every year, but no one who'd done a half dozen or a dozen Caminos. Most people seemed to do it thinking of it as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Maybe to reduce crowding and preserve some semblance of a Camino experience for others, repeaters should back off some. (I say this as someone planning to do it again, but after 22 years, so that's different!)

I did the Francés spring 2019 and did not encounter any negative vibes as those described here . So maybe it is also a question of peak and off-peak season?

 

[J Willhaus]

I'm returning to the Camino this spring after doing it (or at least a lot of it) in 2001, and reading this kind of observation makes me sad because it SO wasn't like that "back in the day," but also grateful to you for posting this so I can kind of brace myself for this new reality. I have zero interest in hanging out with people who are complaining about Spanish customs (!) or spreading rumors about others, etc. I have lived in Spain, LOVE Spain, and speak Spanish, so I might just make a point of hanging out only with Spaniards and pretend to any obnoxious Americans/Brits/Australians/etc. that I don't speak English. That could actually be kind of a fun game to play, I imagine. I am already planning on 2 quieter routes (Aragonese and Invierno), although I think walking in May and June means the traffic on the main route will still be pretty high. I share your worry about overcrowding if current trends keep going. Seems like when I did it before, I didn't meet anyone who had done multiple Caminos. There were Spaniards who did a little bit every year, but no one who'd done a half dozen or a dozen Caminos. Most people seemed to do it thinking of it as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Maybe to reduce crowding and preserve some semblance of a Camino experience for others, repeaters should back off some. (I say this as someone planning to do it again, but after 22 years, so that's different!)

Just hang out with the people you like and distance yourself from the rest. Last summer we walked a few days on the CF to attend an anniversary celebration for the Hospital de Peregrinos de San Juan Bautista in Granon and there was not another pilgrim with us in Navarete and only a few in Azofra. Stopping at the in between places does help.

 

[Former member 92300]

I do think that the "camino spirit" is bigger than cliques and drama, but my experience with 2 walks on the Frances versus 3 other routes is that there is an ever-increasing amount of "Who do you think is the *prettiest* person we've met?" and "Did you hear that so-and-so and so-and-so shared shower beer?" (considering that I was one of the named parties for shower beer, and had actually been writing in my journal in happy solitude and the person who started the rumour was making trouble for lots of people, sometimes dangerous trouble, I think people need to know that just because people have gone out to walk does not mean they will be welcome companions or easy to get away from) and "Please, please make sure that when you see 'X' [whom I'm refusing to see is purposely outrunning me every day] that you give her my contact information [again]."

I've encountered "more* of this drama in the age group just one "demographic category" above mine -- perhaps seeking a "second act"-- than I have in the age groups younger than mine.

It's just a caution for those reading the thread that people are paying a lot of money to travel very far away to hang out with the same people/language groups as they do at home... that more and more are complaining that Spain follows Spanish customs around meal times and shop closing times, etc. If people want to avoid that kind of problem there are other options.

Funny - I experienced NONE OF THAT in my two Caminos... Again- NOT what I am talking about when "I" am referring to "Camino Spirit".

Quieter routes, or in the shoulder seasons... on can encounter a camino spirit with a better signal-to-noise ratio. Of course, I worry that the popularity of Camino walking could create over-crowding on any/all route(s) within a decade.

This I can agree with.

 

[Former member 92300]

I'm returning to the Camino this spring after doing it (or at least a lot of it) in 2001, and reading this kind of observation makes me sad because it SO wasn't like that "back in the day," but also grateful to you for posting this so I can kind of brace myself for this new reality. I have zero interest in hanging out with people who are complaining about Spanish customs (!) or spreading rumors about others, etc. I have lived in Spain, LOVE Spain, and speak Spanish, so I might just make a point of hanging out only with Spaniards and pretend to any obnoxious Americans/Brits/Australians/etc. that I don't speak English. That could actually be kind of a fun game to play, I imagine. I am already planning on 2 quieter routes (Aragonese and Invierno), although I think walking in May and June means the traffic on the main route will still be pretty high. I share your worry about overcrowding if current trends keep going. Seems like when I did it before, I didn't meet anyone who had done multiple Caminos. There were Spaniards who did a little bit every year, but no one who'd done a half dozen or a dozen Caminos. Most people seemed to do it thinking of it as a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Maybe to reduce crowding and preserve some semblance of a Camino experience for others, repeaters should back off some. (I say this as someone planning to do it again, but after 22 years, so that's different!)

I experienced none of what he is describing in the last 2 years that I walked (2021&2022)... and if you see that you are walking with people you don't want to be around - it is very easy to speed up or slow down to get away from unsavory experiences. I did this when I felt there were more crowds and didn't want to be around crowds.

 

[Former member 92300]

I did the Francés spring 2019 and did not encounter any negative vibes as those described here . So maybe it is also a question of peak and off-peak season?

I walked in peak season both 2021&2022 and didn't deal with any of the drama he refers to. And again - if you happen to be around people you don't want to be around - it is easy to speed up or slow down.

 

[AnneMarie1]

I did the Francés spring 2019 and did not encounter any negative vibes as those described here . So maybe it is also a question of peak and off-peak season?

Maybe??? I wonder if May is peak or off-peak. I know it's not THE peak, but I think it's not really considered "off-season," either. It will be mid-June by the time I finish, but I think doing the Invierno will mean I'm off the peak traffic flow by then.

 

[trecile]

Maybe??? I wonder if May is peak or off-peak. I know it's not THE peak, but I think it's not really considered "off-season," either. It will be mid-June by the time I finish, but I think doing the Invierno will mean I'm off the peak traffic flow by then.

For starting from SJPdP May is definitely peak season!

Here's a chart of pilgrims starting from SJPdP last year.
(data from the Pilgrim Office in St Jean)

 

[Isabelpilgrim]

So - After having to cancel my first Camino twice due to COVID - I was able to go at the last minute in June 2021 when Spain reopened to Vaccinated US Citizens. I arrived in Spain on the same day it opened to US vaccinated citizens and made my way to St Jean Pied de Port. When I began my walk - there were VERY few people on the trails. I never had a problem with full albergues (well not before Sarria) - but figuring out which albergues were still open was the challenge. Also, lots of stuff that is normally open, were closed or had reduced hours - making it hard to see things along the way (well - we got to see the outside of everything lol). I walked alone most of the time - and could go hours without seeing another soul on many days. I did meet people got to know many - but it wasn't your usual "Frances route" experience. Anyhow - it was still a great experience - and it was exactly what I needed last summer because I was so burnt out from a nightmare year at work (my work has revolved around COVID for 2+ years now).

Fast forward to February 2022. My daughter and I decided to do the Frances route this summer. I picked Frances again because 1) I didn't really experience a normal Frances Route Camino. I am curious as to what it is like when lots of people are on the trail and when I can stop at all the places I had to skip last summer. 2) It is my daughters 1st Camino - and I feel Frances is best for a 1st Camino - and with her being 18 - I felt she would meet lots of people her age-20's to hang out with (and walk with them instead of mom). And 3) I felt it was the most affordable route for 2 people to walk together. Daughter is paying for herself - and I knew she could stick to a smaller budget on the Frances. SO.... I booked airfare to Paris, reserved 2 nights in Paris (so she can go to the catacombs and a few other places we missed when she went with me last time). I also booked our plane tickets to Biarritz and the first week of reservations (because I know my daughter well enough to know I NEED to know where we are staying the first week until she settles into the route).

Fast forward to Tuesday - after weeks of second guessing our summer plans - daughter decided she wants to go separately. She wants to work for 1 more month before she quits her job. But she still wants to go on the Camino and return closer to when she heads off to college. So - she bought a new ticket to Paris and a new train ticket to Bayonne. Which leads ME to changing MY plans. I have no interest in hanging out in Paris - so I cancelled my Paris reservations and bought a new train ticket to Bayonne and have a hotel reserved that night in Bayonne.

Anyhow - all this craziness leaves me with having to adjust all the other reservations I made! I can outright cancel some - because I am willing to "wing it" now that my daughter isn't coming. But the one reservation that I might not be able to change - is Orisson. I already sent in a new reservation request on wrote on it that I had a reservation for 2 a couple days later that would need to be changed/cancelled. But at 4 weeks away - I don't know if there will be any space for me at Orisson (and of course - I won't get a quick reply on my reservation request). I do know my other options on the Frances route - should I not be able to stay at Orisson.

But, if I can't get the Orisson reservation changed to the new date, I will have to outright cancel the current reservation - that leads me to one last MAJOR dilemma. Do I continue planning for Frances or do I switch to the Norte route? Should I go on the Frances again to experience a normal Frances route? To see the things I didn't get to see/do last time? Or should I do the route I haven't done before and start in Bayonne? I already know Frances is likely to be very crowded, but will the Norte also be very crowded (for the Norte)? Will I be able to find enough cheap lodging to keep my costs down? Will I be too cold on the Norte? (I had an unseasonably cold June/July last year on the Frances). I do get cold very easily. But I do have a down puffy and can pack warmer layers if needed. Also - it looks like I would miss a lot of Sarria to Santiago, is that right? (I did NOT like Sarria to Santiago lol too many large groups). Will a crowded Frances ruin the Frances for me after a blissful not-crowded Frances? haha. What should I do? (LOL - OK - I know you aren't me... but what would YOU do?). I mean - Norte is new but I feel like I haven't truly experienced Frances either.

I should add... I am also planning to walk to Finisterre/Muxia... and now that my daughter isn't coming - I will probably keep walking to Porto before coming home! So - I will get my coast either way. Anyhow - I arrive in Bayonne May 25th - so would start walking on either the 26th or 27th depending on whether or not I want to do a short day on the 26th (which is the plan if I get the reservation for Orisson).

Oh the dilemma of too many good choices!

If you can't book Orisson, you could start in Roncesvalles or Pamplona. Lots of Spanish people start in Roncesvalles, might want to book it.

 

[Former member 92300]

If you can't book Orisson, you could start in Roncesvalles or Pamplona. Lots of Spanish people start in Roncesvalles, might want to book it.

Thanks, yes - I am aware. Actually - someone revived a months old thread - I ended up doing the Norte/Primitivo and loved it!

 

[Anamiri]

Maybe??? I wonder if May is peak or off-peak. I know it's not THE peak, but I think it's not really considered "off-season," either. It will be mid-June by the time I finish, but I think doing the Invierno will mean I'm off the peak traffic flow by then.

Ive walked in May June, and apart from the first few days and from Saria it wasnt that busy on the CF.

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

I did the Francés spring 2019 and did not encounter any negative vibes as those described here . So maybe it is also a question of peak and off-peak season?

Yes… I think it may be very much about peak and off peak, with the Frances as the most likely ‘problem location’. Both times that I encountered these kinds of problems were in later summer, and I never encountered anything even vaguely like it on my “end of season” (Oct and Nov) walks. I suppose I could test the experience by trying a winter Camino on the Frances….
There are so many truly wonderful reasons to walk the Frances… for *me* almost none of them has to do with the groups that form.
Again, ever so grateful for the good fortune of the lovely friends I’ve made on every journey, but those bonds happened only because circumstance saw myself and a person or two calving off from the larger groups. Maybe injury, or a cold caused one or both to decide that sticking together for a day or two made sense; maybe it was that serendipity brought me together with the one other person I’d run into for 3 days running and we happened to share a general sense of the world; maybe it was about cheering for that soul with all the least practical gear in the most inclement weather….

 

[Bradypus]

Ive walked in May June, and apart from the first few days and from Saria it wasnt that busy on the CF.

What someone sees as "busy" is very much a personal thing. I've walked the Via de la Plata in winter and seen perhaps 20 other pilgrims over a month and 1000km of walking. Not much different from my first Camino Frances experience. That is about my comfort level. When I look at the chart @trecile posted above and see that 10,000 left SJPDP in May last year then that is definitely too busy for me. I walked the Frances in September 2016 and I was astounded by the numbers I encountered. The train from Bayonne was so overcrowded that some of us were taken off and taken by taxi at SNCF's expense. On the night I stayed in SJPDP every albergue in town was full and I was told that most hotel beds were also taken. Over 400 left for Roncesvalles the next morning. A fascinating experience in its way but not one I was in any hurry to repeat!

 

[Anamiri]

What someone sees as "busy" is very much a personal thing. I've walked the Via de la Plata in winter and seen perhaps 20 other pilgrims over a month and 1000km of walking. Not much different from my first Camino Frances experience. That is about my comfort level. When I look at the chart @trecile posted above and see that 10,000 left SJPDP in May last year then that is definitely too busy for me. I walked the Frances in September 2016 and I was astounded by the numbers I encountered. A fascinating experience in its way but not one I was in any hurry to repeat!

Yes there's no doubt that the lesser walked Caminos offer a lot more solitude. And the Frances is a very popular route and some months are much busier than others.
I expected it to be very crowded in May based on statistics, but was pleasantly surprised after the first week or so. The stats show people leaving SJPDP , and arriving at Santiago, but dont reflect the people who dont finish, or walk only a week or so at a time, or cherry pick stages. Often there are more people joining at popular towns like Pamplona or Burgos or leon.
I was able on the Frances to walk on my own for hours at a time in May, particularly on the Meseta. Maybe people spread out, and some people only walk a few weeks and return later. You do tend to have more people congregate at bars and cafe's, and people tend to leave albergues in groups in the mornings.
I think new walkers are concerned that the crush at the beginning where there is limited accommodation will continue for the whole walk, but it does thin out, especially if you pick between stages.
I did think September was more crowded, but then I havent walked since 2019.
I'm not a person for crowds either and I could enjoy the Frances by planning my stages in may. I remember walking to Castrojerez and not seeing anyone, except for the storks.
I still think the Frances is a good first Camino.
Having said that, next time I'll turn left at Ponferada and walk the Invierno. I cant face the Sarria stretch again.

 

[Bradypus]

I think new walkers are concerned that the crush at the beginning where there is limited accommodation will continue for the whole walk, but it does thin out, especially if you pick between stages.

Having said that, next time I'll turn left at Ponferada and walk the Invierno. I cant face the Sarria stretch again.

I walked the Frances from SJPDP in January - starting on 2 January and reaching Santiago on 2 February. Because there are very few albergues open in January I tended to meet up with the same group of people walking the same stages most of the way. I was very surprised to discover that I encountered fewer pilgrims in the final stages after Sarria and spent half my nights alone in albergues and rarely saw another pilgrim during the day. Perhaps the greater number of open albergues meant that we were more thinly spread on the ground. It was pleasantly like stepping back 30 years but with all the conveniences of frequent modern accommodation.

 

[mspath]

I walked the Frances from SJPDP in January - starting on 2 January and reaching Santiago on 2 February. Because there are very few albergues open in January I tended to meet up with the same group of people walking the same stages most of the way. I was very surprised to discover that I encountered fewer pilgrims in the final stages after Sarria and spent half my nights alone in albergues and rarely saw another pilgrim during the day. Perhaps the greater number of open albergues meant that we were more thinly spread on the ground. It was pleasantly like stepping back 30 years but with all the conveniences of frequent modern accommodation.

Bradypus,

Your memories/thoughts re walking in January are why in the happy, easier past years, 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010, when walking the CF late autumn/winter I always enjoyed it!

Some place was always open.
There were no summer crowds and beds/bunks were available. I usually slept in albergues, often the sole pilgrim, but also in back rooms of an open bar/restaurant.
There was a strong sense of camaraderie amongst those on the route especially during storms or difficult stretches. Helpful passing strangers also gave advice.
Little was hectic; without the hordes of summer all had time to share info...Bliss.

 

[David Tallan]

I'm returning to the Camino this spring after doing it (or at least a lot of it) in 2001, and reading this kind of observation makes me sad because it SO wasn't like that "back in the day," but also grateful to you for posting this so I can kind of brace myself for this new reality. I have zero interest in hanging out with people who are complaining about Spanish customs (!) or spreading rumors about others, etc.

I did the Frances in 1989 and again in 2016 and saw a lot of changes, but this wasn't one of them. It wasn't my experience of the Frances.