- Time of past OR future Camino
- Recent:Norte/Muxia- Spring '23
MadridWay- Fall '23
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We don't seek out donativos, leaving them for those who can't afford anything else. But we have often stayed at some since there were no other options. Some donativos have no hospitaleros, no nothing. You're on your own. For those, we would check the supply situation and buy a good supply of necessities, including condiments, for those who would come after us. For donativos, like Benduenos, where the locals do so very, very much for peregrinos, we leave what we hope will cover not just for us, but also for peregrinos less able to pay.Given all the inflation of the past couple years, do you (especially those with hospitalero experience) think that the following are reasonable amounts to leave when staying at a donativo on the VDLP?
- bed only, with no additional services: €10
- bed with breakfast: €15
- bed with dinner: €20
I really (really) don't want to get into a debate about donativos, I just want to know if leaving these amounts in 2024 would be seen as reasonable by the hospitalero working there. In particular when dinner is involved - is €10 a reasonable amount to include for dinner? That's less than what a pilgrim menu generally costs so perhaps it's too little.
I understand it's up to each person, and there are many variables. I didn't use any donativos last year, but I'm walking on more of a budget this year and hope to stay at a few (not just for budgetary reasons, I also just want to experience it).
Thanks for your yes/no thoughts.
Based on the current European economy you are probably looking at €25-€30 with 3 course dinner and breakfast snacks.Given all the inflation of the past couple years, do you (especially those with hospitalero experience) think that the following are reasonable amounts to leave when staying at a donativo on the VDLP?
- bed only, with no additional services: €10
- bed with breakfast: €15
- bed with dinner: €20
I really (really) don't want to get into a debate about donativos, I just want to know if leaving these amounts in 2024 would be seen as reasonable by the hospitalero working there. In particular when dinner is involved - is €10 a reasonable amount to include for dinner? That's less than what a pilgrim menu generally costs so perhaps it's too little.
I understand it's up to each person, and there are many variables. I didn't use any donativos last year, but I'm walking on more of a budget this year and hope to stay at a few (not just for budgetary reasons, I also just want to experience it).
Thanks for your yes/no thoughts.
Enjoyed the thread but folks in the know suggest that it is rare that affluent customers are in a trade with non-affluent customers re space so don’t worry! It all works out for everyone! I’m good with that and thanks to the usual two great people on here! !! Last thought! Hopefully no-one from a long way away is paying a 1-4k airfare and claiming that they can’t ‘overpay’ in a donativo!We don't seek out donativos, leaving them for those who can't afford anything else. But we have often stayed at some since there were no other options. Some donativos have no hospitaleros, no nothing. You're on your own. For those, we would check the supply situation and buy a good supply of necessities, including condiments, for those who would come after us. For donativos, like Benduenos, where the locals do so very, very much for peregrinos, we leave what we hope will cover not just for us, but also for peregrinos less able to pay.
In our view, it not only depends on the situation of the peregrino, but also the situation of the albergue.
I do notGiven all the inflation of the past couple years, do you (especially those with hospitalero experience) think that the following are reasonable amounts to leave when staying at a donativo on the VDLP?
- bed only, with no additional services: €10
- bed with breakfast: €15
- bed with dinner: €20
I really (really) don't want to get into a debate about donativos, I just want to know if leaving these amounts in 2024 would be seen as reasonable by the hospitalero working there. In particular when dinner is involved - is €10 a reasonable amount to include for dinner? That's less than what a pilgrim menu generally costs so perhaps it's too little.
I understand it's up to each person, and there are many variables. I didn't use any donativos last year, but I'm walking on more of a budget this year and hope to stay at a few (not just for budgetary reasons, I also just want to experience it).
Thanks for your yes/no thoughts.
Inflation has hit everyone even Pilgrims. I normally do not stay in Albergues.Based on the current European economy you are probably looking at €25-€30 with 3 course dinner and breakfast snacks.
There are many people who must save and budget carefully for their trip, spending a lot on airfare, and then walk the Camino on a strict budget. Again, we need to be careful with assumptions.Last thought! Hopefully no-one from a long way away is paying a 1-4k airfare and claiming that they can’t ‘overpay’ in a donativo!
Sure agreed and good point! It’s very nuanced. I never know nowadays what I can afford. After a relatively normal western European life with easy access to credit and bank funding, I no longer can get access to credit (whether bank or credit card) and it’s a game changer so not sure where I net out. Will do my best to ‘front up’ and hope everyone else does the same!There are many people who must save and budget carefully for their trip, spending a lot on airfare, and then walk the Camino on a strict budget. Again, we need to be careful with assumptions.
At the moment I'm listening to NPR's Weekend Edition Saturday. Scott Simon is interviewing an author on his new novel about a man returning to the country of Georgia. The author was born in Georgia, grew up in UK, and is discussing his actual return to his country of birth. He was somehow stuck in the middle of nowhere in a village of 10 houses, and a farmer returning home explains the bus won't come until the following day. He motions the author to follow him home. They feed and house the visitor with the best they had. Later the author found out the family ate less so he could have his fill, and the room they gave him was the only one that was heated.Given all the inflation of the past couple years, do you (especially those with hospitalero experience) think that the following are reasonable amounts to leave when staying at a donativo on the VDLP?
- bed only, with no additional services: €10
- bed with breakfast: €15
- bed with dinner: €20
I really (really) don't want to get into a debate about donativos, I just want to know if leaving these amounts in 2024 would be seen as reasonable by the hospitalero working there. In particular when dinner is involved - is €10 a reasonable amount to include for dinner? That's less than what a pilgrim menu generally costs so perhaps it's too little.
I understand it's up to each person, and there are many variables. I didn't use any donativos last year, but I'm walking on more of a budget this year and hope to stay at a few (not just for budgetary reasons, I also just want to experience it).
Thanks for your yes/no thoughts.
I've stayed in just about every sort of pilgrim accommodation, including tents. If I stay in a donativo I leave the cost of a mid range private albergue or pension with meal and breakfast. Then I add a bit or maybe donate a couple of bottles of wine. If instead I choose a hotel in what way would the donativo benefit?This post (along with the many others by you) make it very obvious that you are very able to pay whatever amount and stay where ever it pleases you.
I am very confused why you would be staying in a donativo in any event unless it is the only available bed within reasonable walking distance.
You will be taking up a bed that a tight budget pilgrim will urgently need.
I never stay in donativos unless the volume of pilgrims is low or it is the only alternative. When busy I use pensions and leave the lower cost accommondation for others.
Good sign!! If I was in charge I would laminate the posts by Phil and Janet on here and make sure everyone read it as a condition of entry! Just as well I am not in charge !These notices at the Beasain donativo on the Vasco were obviously there as an attempt to educate people.
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The joy of being generous is not part of that education - that only comes from experience.
And cycling back to the OP's question, generosity depends on means. It's not an absolute. So 5€ could be proportionately more generous than 105€. And no-one is looking; only you know.
And maybe just preference/habits?Different age groups.
Beautiful.The measure i use to judge is kindness... it goes far further than money....
Some topics never get old! Or maybe they get old, but refuse to die. A bit like pilgrims I am thinking...This is one of those topics that we keep chewing over, our opinions change, and we learn from each other.
A couple of older threads might be interesting for some of the newer members, and for some of us oldtimers, it’s interesting to see how our positions have evolved. Take a look here for a 2018 thread. Or here for an even older one.
I had some of the same hesitations and objections that have been voiced here, but am so grateful to people like Reb, Lee, Sybille, the Wilhauses and others, who have stuck with the drumbeat and helped me to realize that we are talking about something so very different than coming up with a fair price for services rendered.
Not at at all like tipping. You are paying for the rent of the sheets, the water, the heating, the maintenance of the building and furniture,... (tipping is an extra you add)I guess it a bit like tipping.
I agree but this is really a minimum.Given all the inflation of the past couple years, do you (especially those with hospitalero experience) think that the following are reasonable amounts to leave when staying at a donativo on the VDLP?
- bed only, with no additional services: €10
- bed with breakfast: €15
- bed with dinner: €20
I really (really) don't want to get into a debate about donativos, I just want to know if leaving these amounts in 2024 would be seen as reasonable by the hospitalero working there. In particular when dinner is involved - is €10 a reasonable amount to include for dinner? That's less than what a pilgrim menu generally costs so perhaps it's too little.
I understand it's up to each person, and there are many variables. I didn't use any donativos last year, but I'm walking on more of a budget this year and hope to stay at a few (not just for budgetary reasons, I also just want to experience it).
Thanks for your yes/no thoughts.
That's why I pay more in a Donativo than I would elsewhere, that has a 'price'.Yes, but for me this is an absolute minimum - just covering costs if everyone were able to donate. That’s why we pay at least what we would in a typical non donativo albergue, and usually more.
That's why I pay more in a Donativo than I would elsewhere, that has a 'price'.
A Donativo, for those who can afford it, is a chance to help out a bit and 'give back'........
I think many feel and think the same way as you originally did Robo about Donativo's. And I'd go even further in that many people think that the normal Albergues are just a step up from this, and a place you stay if you can't afford a hotel or have no other choice. People are put off by the lack of privacy, snoring, worrying you won't sleep properly, shared facilities, getting stuck in a top bunk when you need to pee several times a night etc. . .I stayed away from them.
After all, they were for people who could not afford much.
I'd feel out of place in my fancy hiking gear staying there......
I would be taking a bed from someone more in need.
etc etc etc
What you soon realise is that the Albergues ARE the Camino, and the Donativo's are its beating heart and the very soul of everything the Camino stands for.
I love this, @davejsy. Although I no longer stay at very many albergues (donativo or private) after exclusively staying in them on past Caminos, I totally agree with your sentiments. My most interesting and unique experiences have been from those memories and have nothing to do with the beauty of walking through lovely landscapes, villages, and cities along the way.What you soon realise is that the Albergues ARE the Camino, and the Donativo's are its beating heart and the very soul of everything the Camino stands for.
I understand that for very many other reasons people choose hotels or private rooms, and the Camino is still the Camino like this and is still beautiful in many other ways. Certainly no judgment there.I love this, @davejsy. Although I no longer stay at very many albergues (donativo or private) after exclusively staying in them on past Caminos, I totally agree with your sentiments. My most interesting and unique experiences have been from those memories and have nothing to do with the beauty of walking through lovely landscapes, villages, and cities along the way.
Sadly the ‘tin seems empty’ most days if you take the views on here (admittedly not statistically significant), and it’s even grimmer if a reasonable proportion of people are ‘overpaying’. And whilst of course some folks can’t pay, I think people and money drives strange behaviour, and there are likely be many folks who will ‘take the p*ss’. Not sure what’s to be done! I guess they will close unless alternative forms of funding can be found. I think it a shame that the ‘able to pay’ don’t pay a fixed amount and the ‘can’t pay’ (which strikes me as a very small proportion) are welcomed with open arms. I appreciate that is radical and goes against the ethos but there you have it.Just re-reading this thread.
And reflecting, that it took me a long time to understand the Donativo concept.
I stayed away from them.
After all, they were for people who could not afford much.
I'd feel out of place in my fancy hiking gear staying there......
I would be taking a bed from someone more in need.
etc etc etc
I think I'm gradually 'getting it'.
And I made a point of staying in a few last year, to better understand the model.
They were great.
Wonderful hosts, often a really nice meal, good company.
My thinking changed.
I stayed in them, so that I could support the Albergue.
Not because I wanted a cheap bed.
They were not full. Far from it.
It really came home to me once.
I stayed in one where the communal meal was put together more with love than budget, if you get my meaning. It was fine, it did the job. We were filled up. And the company was great. But clearly the tin was fairly empty that day. I had made a point of giving generously, as it was a well known Albergue, that is renowned for its good work. So I was grateful for whatever was offered.
A few days later I met someone who stayed there after us. They had a wonderful meal. So different to ours. That was so nice to hear.The system works..........
What you give today, really does feed the Pilgrims tomorrow!
So my thoughts on how much to donate?
- If you honestly cannot donate much, donate what you can.
- If your budget is OK, donate at least what you would in a private Albergue and for meals etc.
- If your budget is healthy, be generous. Please be generous. You can't be 'too' generous. And help keep the Donativo concept alive.
I donate what I would pay at a private albergue:I donate 10 for the accommodation
5 for the meal.
I don't think it is quite a grim as you may think. Yes, we've seen at least one donativo close in the last few months. Many of the more established ones will survive, I believe. We volunteer every year and I am always grateful for the generosity that is demonstrated even when I know that many of our pilgrims are on quite a close budget.Sadly the ‘tin seems empty’ most days if you take the views on here (admittedly not statistically significant), and it’s even grimmer if a reasonable proportion of people are ‘overpaying’. And whilst of course some folks can’t pay, I think people and money drives strange behaviour, and there are likely be many folks who will ‘take the p*ss’. Not sure what’s to be done! I guess they will close unless alternative forms of funding can be found. I think it a shame that the ‘able to pay’ don’t pay a fixed amount and the ‘can’t pay’ (which strikes me as a very small proportion) are welcomed with open arms. I appreciate that is radical and goes against the ethos but there you have it.
I am sick of seeing people walk away without ‘tipping’ for the ‘free walking tours’ and that’s in open view, so I wonder what’s it like with the opportunity to do it without folks seeing!
Thank you for your detailed response. It is very interesting around the broader context re food and the local economy! I know you are the authoritive voice on this subject who takes action! It’s great to hear that you are upbeat about future prospects and yes I have picked up a sense of doom and gloom sorry if jumped the gun on that.I don't think it is quite a grim as you may think. Yes, we've seen at least one donativo close in the last few months. Many of the more established ones will survive, I believe. We volunteer every year and I am always grateful for the generosity that is demonstrated even when I know that many of our pilgrims are on quite a close budget.
It seems to me that the greater danger is that private restaurants and albergues see donativos as "competitors" so it is important that while we do want to make pilgrims comfortable that we don't violate any norms that raises the ire of the local businesses. As an example, some donativo albergues don't provide a communal evening meal or breakfast because the town wants people to "eat on the economy". Having a kitchen is an option for individuals to self-cater of course, but if the hospitalera is organizing a communal meal without that already being expressly being part of the culture of the albergue, then the nearby restaurants may take issue. The Xunta albergues (not donation based) almost all have wonderful kitchens without any pots, pans, or serviceware. The message is that you bring your own cookware/plates, etc. or you go out to eat. You've gotten the inexpensive bed, but now spend the rest of your cash in the village. If all the bars and restaurants are closed on Sunday, then it might be better tolerated.
As hospitaleros, we are always told to "spread our money around" by using different stores and if we go out to eat, to make sure we give all the area restaurants a try and not just settle into one. (It is much easier if there is only one store or restaurant.)
Anyway, it isn't all gloom and doom. Each person should just worry about their own donation and not what others are giving. If you are able to be generous or if you are putting in only a few euros because you didn't know there wasn't an ATM until the next town, you'll still receive a bed and a roof with a place to bathe and wash out your clothes. Hopefully, your hospitaleros will make you fell welcome and cared for.
Not an authority by any means. Just a volunteer who tries to stay informed.Thank you for your detailed response. It is very interesting around the broader context re food and the local economy! I know you are the authoritive voice on this subject who takes action! It’s great to hear that you are upbeat about future prospects and yes I have picked up a sense of doom and gloom sorry if jumped the gun on that.
People not paying their way when they can, or making unrealistic demands etc is a pet peeve of mine. Funny enough when typed my note I was checking into a hostel (non Camino) and there was a bloke asking for free drinks as he had waited in line to check-in for 30 mins even though it was 255pm and check in didn’t start to 3pm and he jumped in front of me in the queue! I will be seeing him later!
This.What you give today, really does feed the Pilgrims tomorrow!
So my thoughts on how much to donate?
- If you honestly cannot donate much, donate what you can.
- If your budget is OK, donate at least what you would in a private Albergue and for meals etc.
- If your budget is healthy, be generous. Please be generous. You can't be 'too' generous. And help keep the Donativo concept alive.
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