Rainpants

[Emily C]

Hi guys!

Would you consider a pair of rainpants necessary on the camino in late May / early June, or would a raincoat be enough?

 

[Purple Backpack]

I'm one of the few that always carry rain pants. There have only been a couple of summer hiking trips where I absolutely needed them, though. On cold days, I like hiking in running tights and rain pants.

On my wish list right now are the pricey ($99) Patagonia Houdini rain/wind pants, at 4.9 ounces/pair. They seem like a good compromise for trips that will likely be fine without them but may be "nice to have" (not for hiking in perpetual rain!).

Rain pants are also useful for doing laundry when everything else needs to be washed, using as a sit pad, covering a questionable mattress under the sleeping bag and even for a shade shelter when laid horizontally across hiking poles. Anyone else have other creative uses?

 

[Waka]

I guess when you talking about rain coat you mean a jacket.
Some will argue that a jacket would be sufficient in the rain, just let your lower half get wet, myself I'd use rain pants.
I don't think it matters which time of year you are going to walk there will always be a chance of rain, I had 4 days rain in 42 and I was very glad I had the full rain gear.
There is another option, you could always use poncho, these are very popular on the Camino, not for me but everyone to their own. If you had a long poncho then you wouldn't need rain pants.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Mac in a Sac rainpants and Altus alsways get packed and reside in the large pocket that closes the top of my pack for immediate access. Never regretted taking them.

 

[MichelleElynHogan]

Poncho instead of jacket and pants. A bit lighter and you can even leave the pack raincover at home too.

 

[irishgurrrl]

I always bring my technical but lightweight and breathable rain jacket and homemade rain skirt. The rainskirt is more airy than the clammy sweaty rain pants

 

[C clearly]

I'm one of the few that always carry rain pants. There have only been a couple of summer hiking trips where I absolutely needed them, though. On cold days, I like hiking in running tights and rain pants.

On my wish list right now are the pricey ($99) Patagonia Houdini rain/wind pants, at 4.9 ounces/pair. They seem like a good compromise for trips that will likely be fine without them but may be "nice to have" (not for hiking in perpetual rain!).

Rain pants are also useful for doing laundry when everything else needs to be washed, using as a sit pad, covering a questionable mattress under the sleeping bag and even for a shade shelter when laid horizontally across hiking poles. Anyone else have other creative uses?

I'm on the rain pants side, too! I have a fairly expensive pair that don't really look (or sound) like rain pants, so I don't use them as a sit pad, except if necessary in the rain. They have been worn many a time while I'm doing laundry! My gear includes 3 pairs of pants: walking pants, merino sweat pants for evening and night, and rain pants.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

Hi guys!

Would you consider a pair of rainpants necessary on the camino in late May / early June, or would a raincoat be enough?

I use a poncho, and if necessary, a rain kilt. Far better breath-ability than rain pants, and more versatile and lighter in weight. Even when raining I wear shorts, and he kilt provides plenty of wetness protection. If it is a bit chilly and rainy, then I wear a lightweight pair of merino wool or synthetic "long johns" under the shorts http://www.smartwool.com/shop/men-c...150-baselayer-bottom-SW016043?variationId=001

http://www.ula-equipment.com/product_p/rain-kilt.htm?1=1&CartID=0

http://www.zpacks.com/accessories/cloudkilt.shtml
https://mountainlaureldesigns.com/product/mld-rain-kilt/
http://www.heliumhikingequipment.com/store/p21/Rain_Kilt.html

 

[HighlandsHiker]

Rain pants here too. $10 U.S. for a lightweight pair by Coleman and they've served well.

 

[Robo]

I'm in the rain jacket and rain pants 'camp'. But they are super lightweight and Gortex. No sweating, no condensation inside. Very comfortable. I have only walked in April / May on the CF so far, and have been lucky with only a few rainy days, but they kept me bone dry.

The other benefit I find, is that they act as a good extra layer on cold mornings, and also keep the wind from getting through my walking pants / shirt. So don't think they are just to keep the rain off.

If I could not afford Gortex type 'breathable' jacket/pants I would probably use a poncho.

To the original Question. I always carry them. Because they are so light. And I have always used them.

Jacket with a great hood that has a peak (see avatar pic), is 400 gm and pants 200 gm, (with full zips)

I wouldn't just carry the jacket....

 

[Deleted member 67185]

The article below is from backpacking expert Andrew Skurka, and it echos the exact problem that I have found in the many times I have tried various iterations of "breathable" rain gear.


Waterproof-breathable rain gear
A rain jacket and pant's form-fitting silhouettes create a problem: near complete loss of airflow.

If they were to be made of the same waterproof fabric used in umbrella canopies, ponchos, tarps, and tent flies — e.g. polyurethane-coated nylon, silicone-impregnated nylon, or cuben fiber — the wearer would have an effective protection against external precipitation, but they would bathe in their perspiration that becomes trapped in the garment during aerobic activity. (For low-aerobic activity, however, fully waterproof rain gear is great. Next time you watch a baseball game or go fishing in the rain, bring along something like the Helly Hensen Lerwick Rain Jacket.)

The outdoor industry’s solution to this body bag scenario have been waterproof-breathable fabrics (WP/B), e.g. Gore-Tex, eVent, NeoShell, plus proprietary fabrics like Marmot’s Precip and Patagonia’s H2No. That “waterproof-breathable” is an oxymoron is perhaps the first clue that this fabric technology might be overhyped. Think: A “waterproof” fabric does not allow moisture through it, yet a “breathable” fabric does — So how can a material be both?

Why waterproof-breathable fabrics fail
In my experience, waterproof-breathable fabrics are neither waterproof nor breathable, especially during extended use and/or if the garment is not brand new. While there are measurable performance differences between the degrees of water-resistance and breathability of different fabrics, the ultimate outcome is the same: I will get wet from the outside, the inside, or both. It’s really just a question of timing and method.

Outside. The Achilles heel of WP/B fabrics is the durable water repellent (DWR) treatment applied to the face fabric. This long-chain (C8) fluorocarbon-based treatment easily degrades due to abrasion and contaminants (e.g. dirt, body oils, sunscreen), which causes the face fabric to become saturated with moisture. Since it is more humid outside the jacket than inside it, moisture is “pulled” through the jacket by the drier air inside. With new restrictions C8 soon taking effect, the lackluster performance of DWR will decline further.

The DWR finish can be restored with wash-in and spray-on treatments like Nikwax TX Direct Wash In. They definitely help, but I have found that the DWR is never as-good-as-new again. And without a functional DWR, wet-out is inevitable.

Inside. Technically, waterproof/breathable fabrics are breathable — i.e. moisture can transmit through the fabric, via solid state diffusion or direct venting. But so too is a jacket made of trash bag material with a few pinholes in it. Regardless of marketing claims to the contrary, the breathability of WP/B fabrics is utterly inadequate relative to a normal rate of perspiration when hiking, especially in warm and/or humid conditions. So even if you managed to stay dry on the outside while wearing WP/B clothing (like if it’s a sunny day) you will get wet from the inside due to trapped perspiration.

 

[Robo]

In my experience, waterproof-breathable fabrics are neither waterproof nor breathable, especially during extended use and/or if the garment is not brand new.

My experience is totally the opposite. Totally waterproof, totally breathable. Maybe I imagined it

But my wife wears the exact same gear. Same result, Dry and no condensation on the inside.

Go figure.......

 

[C clearly]

The article below is from backpacking expert Andrew Skurka, and it echos the exact problem that I have found in the many times I have tried various iterations of "breathable" rain gear.

I'm not saying my rain jacket and pants are perfection. However, neither are rain poncho and kilt. They all have pros and cons that are apparent without going into too much technical detail. The jacket and pants work very well for my activities!

 

[Deleted member 67185]

My experience is totally the opposite. Totally waterproof, totally breathable. Maybe I imagined it

But my wife wears the exact same gear. Same result, Dry and no condensation on the inside.

Go figure.......

No, I doubt that you imagined it, more like the amount of exertion while wearing your WP/B gear is far lower than me and many backpackers hiking far steeper grades for longer periods going at a faster pace while carrying far heavier loads. The amount of time one spends wearing "breathable" fabrics also comes into play: a few hours vs all day, for example. The fact is, that given a low enough exertion level, low enough humidity level, and a cool enough temperature one could wear a heavy duty impermeable trash bag and never get wet from sweat. I have never owned a raincoat or pants from any of the large manufacturers of specialized backpacking clothing that didn't soak me in sweat during a day of climbing, or wet-through after backpacking all day long.

Some people are OK with WP/B gear. But it is enough of a problem that gear manufacturers keep trying to find the magic bullet. Each year brings new "improvements" in fabrics that claim to be be even better at breath-ability. It is a problem that keeps thousands of backpackers searching for the golden egg, and a large percentage of PCT and AT thru-hikers tossing rain pants and rain jackets in favor of ponchos, rain kilts and umbrellas

As with any observation, YMMV. And, if one has found something which works for them, keep using it.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

I'm not saying my rain jacket and pants are perfection. However, neither are rain poncho and kilt. They all have pros and cons that are apparent without going into too much technical detail. The jacket and pants work very well for my activities!

Yup... which is why folks seeking advice should investigate what might work best for them, and not be hesitant to change gear if things can be improved. As far as technical details are concerned, please don't hesitate to go over those. I have followed the developments of various WP/B fabrics since Gortex Generation 1 (about ten generations ago), and keep up with both the science and the newest iterations of fabrics.

 

[Robo]

No, I doubt that you imagined it, more like the amount of exertion while wearing your WP/B gear is far lower than me and many backpackers hiking far steeper grades for longer periods going at a faster pace while carrying far heavier loads.

So WP/B gear should work well for most Pilgrims walking a Camino then?

 

[Deleted member 67185]

So WP/B gear should work well for most Pilgrims walking a Camino then?

LOL!!! Could be

 

[Deleted member 29041]

Rain pants tend to leave me with a wet crotch due to condensation and sweat. Hate that. Never could afford the highly breathable types.

What works for me, is a combination of a poncho (with arms) and rain leggings. When wearing the poncho, I clip my (slightly rigid) hat to the shoulder strap (i.e. under the poncho), so it rests on my chest and keeps air flowing around my body. Most other items (shoulder pouches, water bottles, etc.) carried on the chest works as well. Unless the rain is in-my-face, I will leave the neck of the poncho open for ventilation.

Leggings may work with the longer rain jackets (those that reach the thigh) as well. Not so well with short jackets.

Another combo I have been thinking about, is rain jacket, rain kilt, rain gaiters. Good ventilation and no run-off into the shoes/boots.

 

[NoQ]

I always carry rain pants and rain jacket as well as a poncho when hiking at home and on the Camino.
My last Camino was in July 2015 and I used the pants only once and the jacket and poncho twice. But they weigh so little anyway and the one day I did use them was between La Laguna and Triacastela when I was so grateful I had packed them as they provided warmth as well as protection from the rain on a really cold and wet day in the mountains, while so many other pilgrims that day were totally underprepared.
I have every intention of taking them again this summer on the Primitivo.

 

[wcsjms]

Hi guys!

Would you consider a pair of rainpants necessary on the camino in late May / early June, or would a raincoat be enough?

Used our rain jackets but our rain pants made us just as wet from perspiration as would have the rain. Unless it is cold, I would shed the rain pants and rely on quick dry pants. The rain jacket keeps your core dry and warm. Our rain jackets were vented to allow cooling. This year...no rain pants

 

[MikeJS]

I have gortex trouser and jacket and a poncho. On 4 caminos I have never used the jacket and only used the trousers once. All the rest of the time (inc 10 days of rain back to back on the Norte) I have used the poncho. Not only is it more comfortable, it also covers my rucksack. Best of all it cost 10 euros from a farm shop on the Frances!

 

[notion900]

The OP asked about May/June. Rainpants and jacket are excellent at keeping out the cold and wind, unlike a poncho. But in late May/June this should not be too much of an issue.

And Rain Kilts! Who knew? You learn something new every day.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

The OP asked about May/June. Rainpants and jacket are excellent at keeping out the cold and wind, unlike a poncho. But in late May/June this should not be too much of an issue.

And Rain Kilts! Who knew? You learn something new every day.

In my thousands of miles of backpacking in the Sierra Nevada, Rocky's, and the Cascades, I've not had any problem staying warm with a poncho, or having problems with wind. A poncho can be nicely configured to keep from blowing around like a kite, and if it's chilly, wearing a good baselayer, just as one would with a rain jacket, will keep one warm.

 

[Priscilla NC]

I walked the Camino April/May. I did not take rain pants, though I had bought a pair. My hiking pants were REI Safari pants, and on my rainy training walks, they kept me reasonably dry.

Due to weight concerns, I decided to leave the rain pants home. Although I never had a full day of driving rain, it did rain plenty. The hiking pants and rain jacket (Marmot Precip) served me well.

Buen Camino!

 

[Magnara]

I always bring my technical but lightweight and breathable rain jacket and homemade rain skirt. The rainskirt is more airy than the clammy sweaty rain pants

Homemade rainskirt ? What a brilliant idea! I refuse to wear a poncho because it flaps and sweats and lets my face get wet and generally is (to me) loathsome - I know people have very different and strongly held opinions about ponchos - but I have always carried rainpants and used them sometimes. But now, I am going to make myself one of your rainskirts and try it out. (I wonder if my husband would like to try it too - perhaps I could call it a rainkilt )

 

[Deleted member 67185]

Homemade rainskirt ? What a brilliant idea! I refuse to wear a poncho because it flaps and sweats and lets my face get wet and generally is (to me) loathsome - I know people have very different and strongly held opinions about ponchos - but I have always carried rainpants and used them sometimes. But now, I am going to make myself one of your rainskirts and try it out. (I wonder if my husband would like to try it too - perhaps I could call it a rainkilt )

Too late... they are already called rain kilts for us guys who wear them.

 

[irishgurrrl]

Homemade rainskirt ? What a brilliant idea! I refuse to wear a poncho because it flaps and sweats and lets my face get wet and generally is (to me) loathsome - I know people have very different and strongly held opinions about ponchos - but I have always carried rainpants and used them sometimes. But now, I am going to make myself one of your rainskirts and try it out. (I wonder if my husband would like to try it too - perhaps I could call it a rainkilt )

It's very easy to make if you use a good quality poncho. I just cut the bottom part of an Altus poncho and sewed in a waistband then threaded elastic through it. Top tip is make it long enough. You can "hoik" it up if you want it shorter

 

[Deleted member 67185]

Below is a link to one site that tells you how to make a rain skirt/kilt. The amount of fabric required is inexpensive. I suggest Silnylon as it is very light weight and cheap. The person who is the author of the article does not suggest Silnylon, suggesting that it is not waterproof, but I think he might be confusing Silnylon with some other fabric, as Silnylon is used by several manufacturers to make ultra-lightweight, single-wall backpacking tents. I used one for many years until I upgraded to a Cuben fiber tent.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Rain-Kilt-Skirt-for-Hiking/

 

[Phil W]

We carried our rain jackets and rain pants for 45 days last summer and only used the jackets for about 15 minutes the entire journey. Used the rain pants only while doing laundry. Still would not leave either at home. I think rain gear is one of those "just in case" things that I would includeagain despite not using it on a prior Camino. The total weight of the jacket and pants together is about 20 oz. so it does add weight.

 

[Magnara]

It's very easy to make if you use a good quality poncho. I just cut the bottom part of an Altus poncho and sewed in a waistband then threaded elastic through it. Top tip is make it long enough. You can "hoik" it up if you want it shorter

Great tip, I'll get out the sewing machine - and it will add the final touch to my already very elegant look when on a camino

 

[irishgurrrl]

Great tip, I'll get out the sewing machine - and it will add the final touch to my already very elegant look when on a camino

Haha I know what you mean The side seams are already in place on the poncho so it's an easy thing to make.

 

[Compadre15]

Rain pants and jacket for me. And waterproof shoes. Had 2 days of continuous rain and thunderstorms in June 2015. My pancho failed to keep my feet dry. Wet shoes resulted in blisters. 2 friends walking with us wore rain pants and waterproof shoes. Drier and no blisters for them. Not recommended for people who perspire heavily.

 

[Deleted member 43985]

But it is enough of a problem that gear manufacturers keep trying to find the magic bullet.

My belief is that this is far less about the performance of the jacket/pant/hat than it is about the overwhelming need of a for-profit company to make a profit! If they didn't offer the best new technology, colour, zipper pulls, etc suckers like me would still have room in their closets and money in their accounts!

I agree with numerous people above, rain pants and jacket are the way I roll. I also roll slow and steady (I heard somewhere that the Camino isn't a race) and find myself pretty warm and dry at the of of cold, wet days!

 

[Paddington Bear]

The article below is from backpacking expert Andrew Skurka, and it echos the exact problem that I have found in the many times I have tried various iterations of "breathable" rain gear.


Waterproof-breathable rain gear
A rain jacket and pant's form-fitting silhouettes create a problem: near complete loss of airflow.

If they were to be made of the same waterproof fabric used in umbrella canopies, ponchos, tarps, and tent flies — e.g. polyurethane-coated nylon, silicone-impregnated nylon, or cuben fiber — the wearer would have an effective protection against external precipitation, but they would bathe in their perspiration that becomes trapped in the garment during aerobic activity. (For low-aerobic activity, however, fully waterproof rain gear is great. Next time you watch a baseball game or go fishing in the rain, bring along something like the Helly Hensen Lerwick Rain Jacket.)

The outdoor industry’s solution to this body bag scenario have been waterproof-breathable fabrics (WP/B), e.g. Gore-Tex, eVent, NeoShell, plus proprietary fabrics like Marmot’s Precip and Patagonia’s H2No. That “waterproof-breathable” is an oxymoron is perhaps the first clue that this fabric technology might be overhyped. Think: A “waterproof” fabric does not allow moisture through it, yet a “breathable” fabric does — So how can a material be both?

Why waterproof-breathable fabrics fail
In my experience, waterproof-breathable fabrics are neither waterproof nor breathable, especially during extended use and/or if the garment is not brand new. While there are measurable performance differences between the degrees of water-resistance and breathability of different fabrics, the ultimate outcome is the same: I will get wet from the outside, the inside, or both. It’s really just a question of timing and method.

Outside. The Achilles heel of WP/B fabrics is the durable water repellent (DWR) treatment applied to the face fabric. This long-chain (C8) fluorocarbon-based treatment easily degrades due to abrasion and contaminants (e.g. dirt, body oils, sunscreen), which causes the face fabric to become saturated with moisture. Since it is more humid outside the jacket than inside it, moisture is “pulled” through the jacket by the drier air inside. With new restrictions C8 soon taking effect, the lackluster performance of DWR will decline further.

The DWR finish can be restored with wash-in and spray-on treatments like Nikwax TX Direct Wash In. They definitely help, but I have found that the DWR is never as-good-as-new again. And without a functional DWR, wet-out is inevitable.

Inside. Technically, waterproof/breathable fabrics are breathable — i.e. moisture can transmit through the fabric, via solid state diffusion or direct venting. But so too is a jacket made of trash bag material with a few pinholes in it. Regardless of marketing claims to the contrary, the breathability of WP/B fabrics is utterly inadequate relative to a normal rate of perspiration when hiking, especially in warm and/or humid conditions. So even if you managed to stay dry on the outside while wearing WP/B clothing (like if it’s a sunny day) you will get wet from the inside due to trapped perspiration.

I agree except for gortex.
I got an "equivalent" fabric and it just didn't work.
Now I have a gortex jacket and it's great - waterproof and breathable even when hot.
DH sweats a lot and has a 25 year old gortex rain jacket (long one) and it still breathes (even for him) and is still waterproof.
He treats it with tender loving care and washes it fairly regularly and has reproofed it a few times.
Gortex has to be kept clean to work I think but it is far superior to the other materials we've tried.

I know it's a personal thing but I just can't wear ponchos - they flap too much for me.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

My belief is that this is far less about the performance of the jacket/pant/hat than it is about the overwhelming need of a for-profit company to make a profit! If they didn't offer the best new technology, colour, zipper pulls, etc suckers like me would still have room in their closets and money in their accounts!

I agree with numerous people above, rain pants and jacket are the way I roll. I also roll slow and steady (I heard somewhere that the Camino isn't a race) and find myself pretty warm and dry at the of of cold, wet days!

Colors and zipper pulls may very well apply to your observation. But there is a HUUUUGGGGGE difference between first generation waterproof/breathable (WP/B) fabrics, and those of today. It is more about innovation than it is about marketing-hype.

The newest generations of fabrics like eVent, or the new DWR products applied to the outer shell of WP/B gear -- which are as important as the actual membrane layer itself -- have advanced breathability by leaps and bounds over that first generation of product. Beyond that, there is also the newest iteration of rain shell garments which takes a brand new type of membrane, which is polyurethane-based, and then moving that membrane to the outside layer of the jacket, instead of sandwiched in-between the outer and inner layers of the shell.

If one were to find an unused first generation Goretex rain shell, and, under the exact same rain and physical exertion scenario, then wear the newest generation of WP/B rainshell, s/he would find that it takes longer for sweat to begin to accumulate under the garment, that the outer shell takes a lot longer to "wet-out", and that the shell is far less cold and clammy against the skin.

It is absolutely true that the Camino is not a race. But a lot of folks walk a naturally faster pace and sweat more than others while enjoying their Camino. For those who walk a pace below the threshold of sweating, rainshells are adequate. But, because airflow is far more important at keeping sweat from soaking you than is the still limited breathability of even the newest rainshells, a large percentage of hikers and backpackers find a poncho the best choice for staying both warm and dry.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

I know it's a personal thing but I just can't wear ponchos - they flap too much for me.

Yeah, flappiness can be an issue I use snaps and cords to keep things from getting out of hand. ;-)

 

[Deleted member 43985]

Colors and zipper pulls may very well apply to your observation. But there is a HUUUUGGGGGE difference between first generation waterproof/breathable (WP/B) fabrics, and those of today. It is more about innovation than it is about marketing-hype.

The newest generations of fabrics like eVent, or the new DWR products applied to the outer shell of WP/B gear -- which are as important as the actual membrane layer itself -- have advanced breathability by leaps and bounds over that first generation of product. Beyond that, there is also the newest iteration of rain shell garments which takes a brand new type of membrane, which is polyurethane-based, and then moving that membrane to the outside layer of the jacket, instead of sandwiched in-between the outer and inner layers of the shell.

If one were to find an unused first generation Goretex rain shell, and, under the exact same rain and physical exertion scenario, then wear the newest generation of WP/B rainshell, s/he would find that it takes longer for sweat to begin to accumulate under the garment, that the outer shell takes a lot longer to "wet-out", and that the shell is far less cold and clammy against the skin.

It is absolutely true that the Camino is not a race. But a lot of folks walk a naturally faster pace and sweat more than others while enjoying their Camino. For those who walk a pace below the threshold of sweating, rainshells are adequate. But, because airflow is far more important at keeping sweat from soaking you than is the still limited breathability of even the newest rainshells, a large percentage of hikers and backpackers find a poncho the best choice for staying both warm and dry.

I don't disagree that a 1st gen waterproof apple is not as good as today's waterproof apple but you seem to now be comparing apples to oranges. The point I was making is that last years waterproof apple is not going to be significantly better than this years waterproof apple, only different optics and buzz words, supporting my idea that there are not new magic bullets every year, just profits.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

I don't disagree that a 1st gen waterproof apple is not as good as today's waterproof apple but you seem to now be comparing apples to oranges. The point I was making is that last years waterproof apple is not going to be significantly better than this years waterproof apple, only different optics and buzz words, supporting my idea that there are not new magic bullets every year, just profits.

Your point seems to be that there is no significant advances in waterproof/breathable fabrics from one year to the next. To some extent you are correct. MY point was that there have been significant leaps in WP/B rain gear since its inception, with the most significant of those advancements and applications having occurred over the last three years. No buzz words or marketing hype, but real, measurable advancements.

Even since the 1970's, when Gortex was first introduced, advancements in the shell fabrics DWR coatings, better wp/b fabrics, bonding and lamination of layers in the shells, as well as creating shells that are better adapted to specific needs, have occurred on a regular basis.

I do not disagree that manufacturers will change aesthetic fashion from season to season to appeal to vanity buyers. That comes under the category of form over function.

As to function over form, I never stated that new "magic bullets" are made every year. What I have stated is that, especially over the last 5 years, significant advances to wp/b rain gear have been made, many over each of the last three years.

 

[Paddington Bear]

Your point that there is no significant advances in waterproof/breathable fabrics from one year to the next. To some extent you are correct. MY point was that there have been significant leaps in WP/B rain gear since its inception, with the most significant of those advancements and applications having occurred over the last three years. No buzz words or marketing hype, but real, measurable advancements.

Even since the 1970's, when Gortex was first introduced, advancements in the shell fabrics DWR coatings, better wp/b fabrics, bonding and lamination of layers in the shells, as well as creating shells that are better adapted to specific needs, have occurred on a regular basis.

The facts simply do not support your conclusions.

All I know from bitter experience is that gortex is the only material that works for me. If you buy your gear on special during the sales it's almost affordable!

 

[Deleted member 67185]

All I know from bitter experience is that gortex is the only material that works for me. If you buy your gear on special during the sales it's almost affordable!

The original Gortex has not been used in a long time. Gortex is a trade name, but the WP/B technology in the manufacture of membranes bearing that trade name have been improved many times. If your Gortex rain gear was purchased over the last five years, it is basically the same type of WP/B membrane that is trade named eVent. In other words, given the same rainshell, whether the wp/b membrane is eVent or Gortex, it performs the same exact way because it is the same material under differing trade names.

 

[Paddington Bear]

The original Gortex has not been used in a long time. Gortex is a trade name, but the WP/B technology in the manufacture of membranes bearing that trade name have been improved many times. If your Gortex rain gear was purchased over the last five years, it is basically the same type of WP/B membrane that is trade named eVent. In other words, given the same rainshell, whether the wp/b membrane is eVent or Gortex, it performs the same exact way because it is the same material under differing trade names.

Well that not my experience, sorry. 18 months ago I bought an eVent jacket and the rain soaked through it. I have gortex rain pants that work well and DH has gortex that works. I went back to the same store and got a new gortex jacket that works perfectly. The shop took my eVent jacket back for testing and gave me a refund as it has a guarantee even though I didn't push for it as it was 18 months old and I'd tried unsuccessfully to recoat it.

All this stuff is just my experience, Dave, I'm sure you are technically and scientifically correct but I'm just not prepared to risk it again.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

Well that not my experience, sorry. 18 months ago I bought an eVent jacket and the rain soaked through it. I have gortex rain pants that work well and DH has gortex that works. I went back to the same store and got a new gortex jacket that works perfectly. The shop took my eVent jacket back for testing and gave me a refund as it has a guarantee even though I didn't push for it as it was 18 months old and I'd tried unsuccessfully to recoat it.

All this stuff is just my experience, Dave, I'm sure you are technically and scientifically correct but I'm just not prepared to risk it again.

I most definitely want folks to go with what they feel most comfortable with. I am one of those folks that do actual real world testing of backpacking gear, so I have a considerable long-term, in-depth real world field experience with rain gear. I never do product reviews of what I test, but only provide feedback to the manufacturers about specific performance and quality control.

Failure to adequately perform is not just about the membrane itself: the membrane is, to a large extent, at the mercy of the other fabrics in the laminate, the shell material and the thickness of that material, the quality and durability of the DWR coating to the outside fabric, how loose or how form-fitting the rainshell is (this is part of the venting and air circulation of the garment itself), how many and what type of vents there are (pit vents, back vents , often covered by a thin flap of material). There are a lot of failure points to a rain shell, and if one finds a shell that works well for them, it is the one to keep.

 

[Deleted member 43985]

So reviewing your comments:

But it is enough of a problem that gear manufacturers keep trying to find the magic bullet. Each year brings new "improvements" in fabrics that claim to be be even better at breath-ability. It is a problem that keeps thousands o

I never stated that new "magic bullets" are made every year. What I have stated is that, especially over the last 5 years, significant advances to wp/b rain gear have been made, many over each of the last three years.

In all the reading I have managed to lose track of your stance so I'm going to say you are absolutely right and you win! Now if it pleases the court, I'm going to don my surely pourous 7-year old Gortex jacket and go for a walk in the rain and think about something non-waterproof related!

 

[Deleted member 67185]

So reviewing your comments:





In all the reading I have managed to lose track of your stance so I'm going to say you are absolutely right and you win! Now if it pleases the court, I'm going to don my surely pourous 7-year old Gortex jacket and go for a walk in the rain and think about something non-waterproof related!

Perhaps this will help: A magic bullet is the absolute solution, which is why I stated that "manufacturers keep trying to find the magic bullet. When I said that "each year brings new improvements...", it is a recognition that each year a step is accomplished toward the attempt to reach that magic bullet.

I think that I will take your advice and go on that walk

 

[tomjane40]

My experience is totally the opposite. Totally waterproof, totally breathable. Maybe I imagined it

But my wife wears the exact same gear. Same result, Dry and no condensation on the inside.

Go figure.......

What gear are you wearing?

 

[Robo]

What gear are you wearing?

Very lightweight Gortex. Works great.

 

[MissyG]

I always bring my technical but lightweight and breathable rain jacket and homemade rain skirt. The rainskirt is more airy than the clammy sweaty rain pants

Please tell me if you know where I can buy this rainskirt you mentioned? Unless it is handmade by YOU. Any alternatives? I really dont want to wear trousers- or if I do- a tunic/skirt over it.
Do you furthermore think Black is not a good idea in the month of June? Too Hot?

 

[Deleted member 67185]

Please tell me if you know where I can buy this rainskirt you mentioned? Unless it is handmade by YOU. Any alternatives? I really dont want to wear trousers- or if I do- a tunic/skirt over it.
Do you furthermore think Black is not a good idea in the month of June? Too Hot?

Missy, there are a number of manufacturers who make rain kilts. What country do you live in? The rain kilt can be used over walking shorts, so you never need to wear trousers with one.

 

[JabbaPapa]

I just use a pair of jeans.

You need rain protection for your head (eyes especially for clear vision -- so a wide-brimmed hat) and your back and your gear -- but our bodies are well adapted to wet conditions, and you'll waste far less energy just accepting the rain than trying to avoid it when it happens. I've even slept outside in a very heavy thunderstorm and ensuing 8-hour very heavy rain (not to be recommended as a first choice, and people in certain health conditions or slight of body should absolutely avoid anything like it !!).

But I think special rain protection gear for your legs is just some extra baggage to carry, and of little real use for most people -- though pilgrims with fast metabolisms may need to protect themselves from the calorie seepage from drenched clothing and cold rainfall.

 

[irishgurrrl]

Please tell me if you know where I can buy this rainskirt you mentioned? Unless it is handmade by YOU. Any alternatives? I really dont want to wear trousers- or if I do- a tunic/skirt over it.
Do you furthermore think Black is not a good idea in the month of June? Too Hot?

When I made mine they didn't exist on the open market.... I made mine by cutting an Altus (good quality) poncho in half. Using the bottom half I just sewed in a waistband and threaded through some elastic. Very easy to do. The side seams were already there. Just make it long enough (and check this before cutting!) and you can "hoik" it up if you need to. Even if you are not handy with a sewing machine (I'm not either) a seamstress would do that very quickly for you for a few euro/ dollars. Mine isn't perfect in the sewing department but the waistband under my jacket so no one will see it. I've two now. One bright red and the other black. They just happened to be the poncho colours at the time.

By the way I wear black a lot when hiking. Personally it's not an issue for me but everyone is different.

 

[irishgurrrl]

This is my homemade rain skirt. I made it before they were available commercially as I didnt want to wear rain pants (too hot/ sweaty) and ponchos are not for me either. I can pull it down to make it longer and up if I want to wear it shorter. I've used it for all my long distance hikes these past 5+ years. I've made a black one for Ireland so it's a little more subtle (haha) but I like the red for sunnier climes.