Radiation Levels in Europe

[Anniesantiago]

Does anyone have a link where one can find current radiation levels in Europe (especially in Spain)?
The US Government is mute and they've shut down or tweaked many of the websites where the public could check levels. I'm sure levels are lower in Europe, but just curious to see current readings.

 

[newfydog]

Radiation from Japan in Europe is zip, zero, nada. It only exists in the minds of the paranoid and those who love conspiracy theories . Or those with tools which measure numbers so small they are hard to conceive.

Sorry----I've been dealing with this subject lately, and it is making me grumpy. I know it is an emotional subject for many, but all I can do at the moment is tell you I really think you have nothing to fear. I know you get tired of being told that, but it is true.

I had to buy a geiger counter for my landlady at the place I rent in France. It was hard to get one, overpriced, but apparently she will sleep better if she can see for herself. It can detect the radiation from a container of sodium free salt I picked up at the grocery store, (far less than the background radiation in an airplane, but still detectable) so if there is anything extra in Europe, we'll be sure to notice it.

I'll be in France in two weeks with the geiger counter. Until then you can look at this site:
http://www.irsn.fr/FR/base_de_connaissa ... ivite.aspx

And here's a chart of radiation dosage put in perspective, starting with the dose you receive by sleeping next to someone.
http://xkcd.com/radiation/

PS I am nearby in Bend Oregon. No detectable increase in radiation here today.

 

[Anniesantiago]

Thanks for your response. I'm sorry you are grumpy but I did not ask for judgment, I asked for a website.

If you believe there is "zip, nada" radiation then it's my opinion you're living in your own little world and you might consider staying there comfortably. For interested persons, CNN is reporting radiation detected in the water and milk in Washington and Oregon. This is not alarming. I have expected it and have instructed my children as to how to protect their children.

Also, for the record, I was watching live television when CNN suddenly stopped reporting about the radiation in Japan due to "a call from the White House." Later I found articles describing the hush-up was due to the legalities of trade agreements.

So, if you trust the US government, well... you don't want my opinion.

You may, however, want to do research on the Petkau effect - which discusses the danger of constant low level radiation as opposed to the one-shot from an X-ray and the differences between types of radiation. The old story about "you're getting radiation every day blah blah blah" holds no water. It is not the same type of radiation, nor are you ingesting or inhaling the radiation you speak of.

I'm taking precautions.
You have a choice to do as you wish.
I'd be interested in chatting again in about 8 to 10 years.

Now.. if someone has a website, I'd appreciate it.

 

[newfydog]

.

Now.. if someone has a website, I'd appreciate it.

I gave you a website. It is for France, not Spain, but it is in the neighborhood, and very detailed.

Here it is again:

http://www.irsn.fr/FR/base_de_connaissa ... ivite.aspx

Also, I am measuring radiation here, and will do the same in Europe, down to the level of what comes out of the potassium of the average banana. I'm not being flippant here---we do ingest bananas. After the Three Mile Island nuclear accident, the NRC detected radioactive iodine in local milk at levels of 20 picocuries/liter, a dose much less than one would receive from ingesting a single banana. Thus a 12 fl oz glass of the slightly radioactive milk would have about 1/75th BED (banana equivalent dose). And the levels you refer to from Washington are 25 times lower than that. It is 5,000 times lower than the FDA limits set for infants. Unfortunately, there are people out there depriving their children milk and poisoning them with potassium iodide pills based on these reports. Simply saying "there is radiation in the milk" is not a public service--it is irresponsible.

If you don't believe my data, measure it yourself. Heck even Jon Stuart believes the scientists on occasion:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-m ... ers-attack

As far as the long term effects of low levels are concerned, I am measuring radiation down to the level which would take 60,000 years of exposure to be serious. I don't plan on living that long. Even then, my extrapolation is too pessimistic. From another board:

"The dose-response model you are using in your calculations is a linear no-threshold model; it has been falsified many times over by empirical data and understanding of the biological response to ionizing radiation.

DNA repair mechanisms are nonlinear and adaptive. Pretty much all damage is repaired, up until a point where the repair emzymes get saturated with work. But that doesnt happen fast; the natural background radiation varies by orders of magnitude, but cancer rates dont. We have quite some leeway. Doses which are not out of the same ballpark as the background radiation, and which are non-spikey in nature relative to the response-time of adaptation mechanisms (less than an hour), dont cause any problems at all."

Sorry to get you all worked up. It seems you have made up your mind that there is a threat, and no amount of my honest input will change that.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

There is more radiation downwind from a fossil power plant than downwind from a nuclear plant (Fukushima excepted!). I worry a lot more about oncoming cars staying on their side of the lane divider, and appropriately so. There were no identifiable health effects of the accident at Three Mile Island.

In the aftermath of the accident, investigations focused on the amount of radiation released by the accident. According to the American Nuclear Society, using the official radiation emission figures, "The average radiation dose to people living within ten miles of the plant was eight millirem, and no more than 100 millirem to any single individual. Eight millirem is about equal to a chest X-ray, and 100 millirem is about a third of the average background level of radiation received by US residents in a year."

Radiation from Fukushima will be greater than TMI, but the effect in North America and Europe will be zero. Worrying about a bed on the Camino may be more worthwhile than worrying about radiation in the U.S. from Japan. I do have to say that this is science, not opinion, though those who insist on fearing radiation won't agree.

 

[William Marques]

As has been said the background radiation average in the USA is 361mrem/year however this varies greatly from place to place for smokers add another 280 mrem .

In Spain the Navara/Rioja section of the Camino is below the national average and the meseta section above the national average.

Areas of the world with the highest background radiation levels include:
Guarapari, Brazil;
Kerala, India;
Ramsar, Iran;
Yangjiang, China.

I too am sorry that the hysteria whipped up by the media reporting of recent events in Japan has created so much unnecessary worry among the ordinary uninformed viewer or reader.

 

[Anniesantiago]

Thank you Falcon, but honestly, I have zero confidence in what the American Nuclear Society, or any society supporting nuclear power, tells me. :roll:

Have I made up my mind there is danger? You are right. Yes, I have. Perhaps it's due to my own personal challenges with chemical sensitivities. Perhaps it is out of fear for my grandchildren. Perhaps it comes from watching the lies my government has told throughout my 57 years. Perhaps ... well, it doesn't' matter. You are right. :!:

Regarding "poisoning children" ... well, I doubt that KI given in responsible doses will poison children. The side affects are much less dangerous in my mind as a mother and grandmother than the possibility of thyroid cancer. And there are other ways of absorbing safe iodine and supplements that can be taken to protect against the heavy metals.

Regarding the website... either I don't understand the link you gave or I didn't make myself clear. I wasn't looking for an article. I was looking for a live website with live readings to compare with the readings here in California. Anyway, maybe I just don't read French well enough because I didn't see that option.

Here is a German website that shows how the radiation may be carried by the jet stream:
http://db.eurad.uni-koeln.de/prognose/radio.html

Thanks anyway.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I don't believe anything from those who do not think like me, either.

 

[Anniesantiago]

:::laughing::: good point :lol:

I'm just stressed for a number of reasons.
I'm looking into a ticket now to go walk for 3 months.. .maybe do the Pelgimspad

 

[Br. David]

I have lived through so many media inspired disasters that never happened that I chose to stop being a citizen of the State of Fear some years ago.

Those reactors haven't exploded, as did Chernobyl, they are just leaking .. sure, there will be some small amount of radiation spread around the planet - but I lived through the times when our countries made 'in atmosphere' nuclear explosions, just to see what would happen.

Back in the sixties in the UK Strontium 90 levels became so high in milk that the government had to act. They did, they had the 'safe' level recalibrated to ten times as much - which made all our milk completely safe ....... :?

All is well, we are all just a breath or two away from being dead - all of us - all is well.

Soooo .. maybe no Japanese pilgrimage round the buddhist shrines near their reactors at the moment, but anywhere else in the world? Why not.

Think about this radiation thing - if you get cancer you will leap at the chance of being irradiated almost to death so you will live, so don't be afraid, all is well. :wink:

 

[Beverley]

Thanks Brother David, I agree with you, it is what it is and all is well. One real life lesson I gained on the CF in 2009 is that I came to understand the uselessness (is that a word) of worry. Seriously, life is so much more simple when worry flies out the window. If there is nothing that I can do to change a "possible" outcome of an event or such, then I drop the thought. It helps to make a decision and go with it. Yes, gathering information is important but if I know where I already stand on a topic then I base my decision on where I stand on the topic.

Looking forward to my next Camino in July across Del Norte. onward ho :arrow:

 

[Anniesantiago]

I agree about worrying.

Taking a trip away from the West Coast is not as much "worry" in my mind as it is taking action to keep myself from worrying.

Sort of going into the house instead of standing outside in the rain.

When you have MCS, you learn to make a hasty exit from places where your triggers are present.

 

[Beverley]

Annie, I can't even begin to imagine what you go through. You will make the right choice for you and that is all that counts.
Best wishes

 

[renegadepilgrim]

Annie, I understand your concerns, even though I may not agree with them. They just had a news story here about how higher levels of radiation had been found in cow milk in Spokane and somewhere in California. Of course, they also mentioned that it was still 5,000 times below the level needed to exceed the FDA limits and only a little bit above what is considered "normal".

I work in healthcare and probably get exposed to more radiation walking past the CT scanner than I do walking around outside. I'm just not worried about it because there is very little I can do about it except maybe increase my sea kelp intake and hope for the best!

If you do find a good website, I am still interested though, just to see what the hub-bub is all about!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

We should always have something to worry about, so the real worry is the spent fuel from nuclear reactors that is stored in pools on-site at the plants. The U.S. has never built the reprocessing plants that were promised forty years ago, so there is 13,000 tons of spent fuel stored in "swimming pools" next to reactors! We hear a little bit about the spent fuel at Fukushima, and it is much more likely to leak than the fuel in the reactor containment.

That should make your day, Annie...

 

[Anniesantiago]

Hahah Falcon. THANKS!
You are always my helpful friend! :lol:

Actually, I've just been informed by my attorney that I can not travel at this time.
So it's a moot point. :cry:

I'm on my way back to Oregon in the next few days, where I'll hang out in the woods with my grandchildren for a while to decompress.

 

[renegadepilgrim]

Well, we still need to meet for coffee!!! Oh, and on Sunday, there's a Portland Camino walk too..... safe travels to Oregon!

 

[Anniesantiago]

Levels in Spain are not at all high, but neither are they "zip""

http://www.eitb.com/news/life/detail/629660/radiation-japan-detected-bilbao/

Renegade, as soon as I get settled in, I'll let you know and maybe we can do some hikes this summer? Or even some camping trips?

 

[renegadepilgrim]

Sure thing! I am planning a 5 night backpacking trip along the Mark O. Hatfield Trail in the Columbia Gorge and multiple day hikes with a few shorter backpacking trips thrown in for good measure around Portland. We will have another Camino walk in a couple of months too. I'm always looking for hiking partners.

 

[newfydog]

I was looking for a live website with live readings to compare with the readings here in California. Anyway, maybe I just don't read French well enough because I didn't see that option.

Thanks anyway.

Anne, you need to look around that site some more. Try google translate. I don't know what it is you are looking for, but if you want to know how much of varoious isotopes were in the cheese in Barjols before and after Chernobyl, the info is all there (and so are the isotopes, before and after).

I guess you want a simple daily answer. Various links in that site might fit your needs--Try this one , it is a total of the radioactivity in the air mesured daily.

http://www.irsn.fr/FR/Documents/france.htm

For example, April 2nd in Biarritz, very close to SJPP, it is 56 nannoSieverts per hour. Up in the mountains it is 108 nannoSieverts per hour.

If you worry about this stuff you should study it. You'll see that these numbers go up and down all the time, that all those isotopes can be found in everything, and that all those zeros in front of the measurements really do mean something.

Here's some of the replies I got from a board of nuclear safety professionals in regards to giving my French friend a geiger counter:

"• That is a total nonsense! Better option is to bring that lady a good book about radioactivity!
• I disagree. you are looking at it the wrong way around I think. People worry about radiation because they cannot feel it and may not trust what they are told. The best solution to that is to give them a detector. It will then show that there is nothing to worry about.
• A good (from serious manufacturer) Geiger Counter is very useful.
For what ?
To show to the people that radioactivity is not zero !!!!!!!!
The one who will experiment will see big variations (which have really nothing to do with Chernobyl deposits, Fukushima releases, or something like that...)...

• We professionals often forget or dismiss that the psycho social effects of radiation and nuclear energy are every bit as real to those affected as the technical realities that we "know" to be the real issues - -