- Time of past OR future Camino
- Frances; Aragones; VdlP; Madrid-Invierno; Levante
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Yes, absolutely.Even better to begin on the Aragones
It might take me closer to three months but I can afford the time. A greater challenge is the futility of planning long caminos in a time of pandemic. For me it is as much a dream as a plan.Yes, absolutely.
My >2-months-long pipedream?
Llança-Montserrat-Jaca (Cami Sant Jaume/Cami Catalan)
Jaca-Pamplona (Aragones)
Pamplona-AdC-Bonar (Viejo/Olvidado)
Bonar-Oviedo (San Salvador)
Oviedo-Santiago (Primitivo)
It will never ever happen. Pieces of it, I hope.
I think what I am hearing is that the Camino Viejo is a name, rather than a walkable camino route. I am comfortable with camino routes marked as GR's (Grande Route) but this depends on how well and frequently the route is marked. As for "no room at the inn," I had to bus forward a number of times while walking the Levante. So much was closed that I had to go by public transport to the next place with any available accommodation. My first albergue after Toledo was a couple of rooms in a church outbuilding: bunk beds and blankets, but no shower and the toilet had to be flushed by filling a bucket with water in another room and pouring some down the toilet. It was still better than camping out without camping gear. This depends, in part, on the season and the weather.One thing to keep in mind is that much of the Viejo between Miranda de Ebro and Aguilar de Campoo will be marked for the GR99, but I believe there are no camino markings (@caminka can correct me if I'm mistaken).
And a lot if it (other than the area around Frias) looks pretty remote. Glorious walking for some, but a trial by fire for others. Sheffield James got stuck and had to sleep outside on Oña - off the Viejo, and a place that gets a lot of visitors, but apparently there was no room at the inn.
I was just looking at the first section along the Ebro, after La Presa (where I had assumed I could walk along the road) to find there are 5 short tunnels, with zero shoulder inside.
Gronze shows it on their map as an alternative but with no other information. Someone please set me right if that has changed.I think what I am hearing is that the Camino Viejo is a name, rather than a walkable camino route. I am comfortable with camino routes marked as GR's (Grande Route) but this depends on how well and frequently the route is marked
I am not so interested in albergues at present, for two reasons. I can currently afford to stay in hotels/hostals when on camino, and I feel safer during the pandemic when using private accommodation. The question of availability of private accommodation remains, as Sheffield James' experience shows.Gronze shows it on their map as an alternative but with no other information. Someone pkease set me right if that has changed.
I get the sense that it's definitely walkable, but even less developed than the Olvidado proper from Bilbao. I can't speak to the waymarking, but no doubt there will be the occasional red and white blaze. I hope @caminka will chime in about that. The stretch that coincides with the Vasco has mojones and albergues, of course, but the rest? Albergues not so much.
The Ruta Loca solution ?Yes, absolutely.
My >2-months-long pipedream?
Llança-Montserrat-Jaca (Cami Sant Jaume/Cami Catalan)
Jaca-Pamplona (Aragones)
Pamplona-AdC-Bonar (Viejo/Olvidado)
Bonar-Oviedo (San Salvador)
Oviedo-Santiago (Primitivo)
It will never ever happen. Pieces of it, I hope.
Same! That's precisely what's on my list.but by this route
I actially wasn't sure what you meant by this, @Stivandrer?Ruta Loca solution ?
Same! That's precisely what's on my list.
Haha. No, you're not at all, Laurie.Stivander would get on the Olvidado directly in Aguilar (the map has a typo by the way, it is FasgaR, not Fasgas), whereas VN wants to get on the Salvador. So VN would be on the Olvidado either to Pola de Gordón (which would be my recommendation, because it means you get to go via Vegacervera) or La Robla. Boñar is not on the Salvador.
If I am totally mixed up, just let me know and I will delete.
My Ruta Loca version is a mixture of routes which will make an altenative traverse from Barcelona to SdC without going on the CF as little as possible:I always hesitate to get involved in threads requiring map reading, but it looks to me like VN and Stivander’s dreams diverge at Aguilar de Campóo, or more precisely at La Robla, I think.
Stivander would get on the Olvidado directly in Aguilar (the map has a typo by the way, it is FasgaR, not Fasgas), whereas VN wants to get on the Salvador. So VN would be on the Olvidado either to Pola de Gordón (which would be my recommendation, because it means you get to go via Vegacervera) or La Robla. Boñar is not on the Salvador.
If I am totally mixed up, just let me know and I will delete.
If you want to get really loco, add on Llançà to Montserrat. That is a glorious route through Girona, Vic, and some drop dead gorgeous countryside.My Ruta Loca version is a mixture of routes that wil make an altenative traverse from Barcelona to SdC without going on the CF if possible:
Oh! Thanks. I will definitely consider it.Hi @VNwalking if you are going upto Oviedo from Bonar then you have this Variant of the San Salvador to consider as well https://www.rayyrosa.com/camino-de-santiago-allerano
Fascinating:This looks superb. A very old route, with authentic camino lineage.
The church of San Vicente de Serrapio was, originally, a Roman temple dedicated to Jupiter, which was later converted into a Christian, pre-Romanesque temple, which was remodeled in the Romanesque period and later had several additions.
I was thinking on the theme of going from Cathedral to Cathedral.......If you want to get really loco, add on Llançà to Montserrat. That is a glorious route through Girona, Vic, and some drop dead gorgeous countryside.
I very much hope to walk the Viejo from Pamplona to Aguilar someday, and IMO, the Olvidado + Invierno combination is a match made in heaven!
Would you be traveling too late in the autumn to take advantage of direct Toronto-Madrid flights, at least on the trip over?It looks like I may be able to fly to Spain from Canada without stops in other countries.
I think it makes more sense to wait at least 6 months, even if you end up paying a few hundred dollars more. Too much can change. I am hoping to go in late April, but I don't expect to book my flight until probably the start of March.I am seriously tempted to book flights to and from Spain for next autumn. I have found flights with Air Canada from Calgary to Toronto to Barcelona, and return, for a very reasonable price
That you can figure out for yourself from the Viejo and Olvidado planning threads here.And any advice on my planned walk on the Aragones to Pamplona to the Viejo to the Olvidado to Santiago. How far would that be?
You could also consider three longer 'alternatives':
•The Via Aquitania from Tardajos to Carrión de los Condes (I'd love to walk this!)
•The Camino del Manzanal from Astorga.
There are numerous ways to cross the mountain range knows as Montes de Leon in the east/west direction. All of them (see image below) are Ways to Santiago taken by medieval pilgrims and by later pilgrims.
The Manzanal pass is 1230 m high, compared to the Foncebadon/Cruz de Ferro pass which is 1500 m high. Lower is often better. A major Roman road (Via Nova) went over the Manzanal pass. It has always been and still is today a major traffic artery.
The author of a popular guidebook, perhaps the Brierley of his time for German and Flemish speaking pilgrims, wrote in 1495: If you follow my advice you turn right and you will have no mountains to climb. You will leave all these mountains to your left. I advise you to mistrust Rabanal. And if you follow my recommended route you w
First the good news. You already know this, since you’ve walked it, but for others — With regard to ”well-marked,“ the Invierno is probably the best-marked route of any I have walked. Millions of euros have been spent on mojones and other markings. It may become “fairly popular” in the future, and I do think that the numbers are starting to rise, but on my last Invierno in 2019 I met one peregrino in the Rodeiro pensión Carpinteiras, and that was it. Did you have a different experience? There are no remote stretches, except for maybe the walk up to Monte Faro on a weekday, but you are always close to a road. I can think of no stretch of this route that takes you more than a km or two from “civilization.” The Invierno is ripe for “massification,” IMO because it is not strenuous or remote, has beautiful scenery, an increasing number of albergues, and can be done in stages under 25 km. You don’t need an ounce of “intrepidness” to walk the Invierno, just a good dose of self-reliance and love of walking alone. The forum guide is really all you need to have a successful Invierno walk.This would have some advantages: staying on well-marked, fairly popular routes and finishing both the Podiensis and Olvidado in their entirety,
Laurie,First the good news. You already know this, since you’ve walked it, but for others — With regard to ”well-marked,“ the Invierno is probably the best-marked route of any I have walked. Millions of euros have been spent on mojones and other markings. It may become “fairly popular” in the future, and I do think that the numbers are starting to rise, but on my last Invierno in 2019 I met one peregrino in the Rodeiro pensión Carpinteiras, and that was it. Did you have a different experience? There are no remote stretches, except for maybe the walk up to Monte Faro on a weekday, but you are always close to a road. I can think of no stretch of this route that takes you more than a km or two from “civilization.” The Invierno is ripe for “massification,” IMO because it is not strenuous or remote, has beautiful scenery, an increasing number of albergues, and can be done in stages under 25 km. You don’t need an ounce of “intrepidness” to walk the Invierno, just a good dose of self-reliance and love of walking alone. The forum guide is really all you need to have a successful Invierno walk.
But I have never heard anyone refer to the Olvidado with either of those descriptions. The marking is still rough in places. If you read a few of the older threads, you will get lots of examples of that. A few that come to mind — on the way out of Velilla del Río Carrión, into Buiza, out of Pola de Gordón, into Cistierna. IMO, a GPS is essential. There are marking efforts underway, but standardization and universal buy-in from all the governments, villages, and people along the way takes time. I think there is a trickle of peregrinos, but there are six or seven stages I would describe as remote, at least by camino standards. No villages, no people, no pilgrims, for kms. No vehicle access. It is true, though, that for a couple of those stages you can take an alternative on-the-road option. These are not technical mountain climbing stages, just some pretty hefty ascents and descents, but they are remote. I have never met another peregrino on the Olvidado. The closest I’ve gotten is to hear that someone is a day or two ahead of me. Some of the most spectacular scenery of any camino, to be sure, and I know you have lots of mountain experience, AG, but you shouldn’t think that you are likely to see others as you walk.
I love the Olvidado and I am not trying to discourage anyone from walking it, but I do think preparation and having your eyes open are important.
Buen camino, Laurie
I have spent a little time (so far) looking at the route for the Olvidado. There is a track on maps.me from Bilbao to Cacabelos. It shows a fair amount of detours along the way, but I would expect that my GPS arrow would show me my current location and I would try to remain on the track, unless there were a good reason to follow a side-route. With the track, the GPS on my phone, and my Guide to the Camino Olvidado, I should be able to find my way to Cacabelos, back on the Frances to Ponferrada and then the Invierno to Santiago. I have not yet read the guide, by Jose Antonio Cunarro, thoroughly and know that changes have been made. I shall keep on looking. I prefer to avoid daily walks over 30km. so that may be a problem. But I love mountains. I am trying to get in shape to walk them.The marking is still rough in places. If you read a few of the older threads, you will get lots of examples of that. A few that come to mind — on the way out of Velilla del Río Carrión, into Buiza, out of Pola de Gordón, into Cistierna. IMO, a GPS is essential.
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