Questions about “foot bag” for this year

[peregrina2000]

I am leaving in about two weeks, so it is time to get organized. I am starting with my foot bag. I typically bring gauze, scissors, Omnifix tape (MAGIC TAPE!!!), tweezers, small scissors, antibacterial cream and betadyne. No more compeed! No more second skin! No more toe protectors to prevent corns, thanks to my Altras! Maybe I will leave in a little moleskin and molefoam, what do you think?

But my real question is that I don’t really understand the difference between when and how to use betadyne and/or antibacterial cream. When I get a blister, I immediately cut it open (so it is always very small), wash it the best I can depending on where I am, cut away a small patch of skin so it won’t re-form and apply either anti-bacterial cream or betadyne, then cover it with omnifix and gauze. But what is the difference? When should I use which one?

Thanks, buen camino, Laurie

 

[NorthernLight]

Perhaps a search for wound care on a health site would be more reliable than info from the likes of us.

So I googled 'wound care antibiotics vs betadine'. Results said not to use betadine on open wounds. Yes, it kills bad bacteria, but it kills good ones too. Once you cut open the roof of the blister, it became an open wound. Open wound = antibiotic ointments.

Happy packing!

Edited to add: betadine would then really only useful for cleaning your needle/scissors/tweezers, the blister before you cut it, and for minor scrapes.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

You should refrain from opening blisters but we know that it will happen. If you are going to do it this article has the recommendation that the betadine be used on the unopened blister before draining and then cream be applied before bandaging.

The One Thing You Should Never Do To Your Blisters, According To An Expert

When a blister rears its ugly head, one of the first thoughts you contemplate (aside from wondering if you can wear slippers outside the house) is how to get rid of it. However, don't be too hasty; there's one thing you should never do to your…

www.bustle.com

 

[NorthernLight]

My edit wasn't needed, Rick got there at the same time.

 

[peregrina2000]

Well, if we deleted every post whose question could be answered elsewhere on the internet, we wouldn’t have many posts left to read. I was just wondering if forum members had experience using these two different products.

I don’t want to start a battle about whether to open blisters or not. I understand that some people think it’s a bad idea. I have tried many different methods on the camino, and this is the one that works best for me. Compeed doesn’t work for me. The Spanish method of using a needle and leaving the thread in did not work for me. Surrounding the blister with molefoam and taping it to prevent further pounding helped with the blister I was treating but usually made another blister pop up somewhere else. Leaving blisters alone did not work for me, because small blisters just turned into huge blisters. If I could change shoes, maybe that would be the solution, but since I cannot walk in my Chacos, my only alternative is to walk barefoot and leave the blister alone or deal with it when it is nascent. I am not encouraging anyone else to try it. Every time I fall and scrape my leg or arm, the top layer of skin has come off. I treat it and it heals. The same works for me with blisters.

BUT.... back to the question. I have gone to the internet and seen that Betadine also makes an antibacterial cream! So that’s confusing. For years, I have only used antibacterial cream, but last year had several people tell me to put betadine on first if I was out in the boonies and didn’t have access to sterile (or close to sterile) conditions. Then at the next stop, wash it all with soap and hot water and put on the anti-bacterial cream.

Betadine is used and recommended so widely in Spanish farmacias, it just left me wondering. But maybe I’ll just go back to only using antibacterial cream.

 

[Former member 49149]

My walking companion is Spanish, and a doctor. She treats my blisters by opening them, treating them, and that involves putting liquid betadina on some cotton wool, if not directly on to the suffering area... then it is covered with a plaster to keep it clean. It works for me. I am not sure if that answers your question, hut it is what I know. All the best, however you decide in the end.

 

[nidarosa]

I also open blisters the same way @peregrina2000 does - I call it cat's-eyeing, using my curved nail scissors to make an incision that won't close again and removes excess skin. I use betadine to clean the area and the scissors before I attempt any roadside surgery. If I have Germolene with me, I will put some on a Cosmopor E plaster/compress which has tape on all sides to keep the area clean, or if I don't, I put some betadine on it. Never had any adverse effects. I tend to get deep pressure blisters on the side of both heels (a gait and weight thing, apparently) and have to open them or they will become huge and sometimes filled with blood. Never had any blisters get infected, touch wood. This time though, I wore Hoka Speedgoats and didn't get a single blister so I have just bought another pair of the same shoe!

 

[peregrina2000]

Yes, Nidarosa, me too! Switching to the Altras gave me a blister-free camino last year, but I do want to be prepared.

 

[nidarosa]

@peregrina2000 I have heard good things about the Altras but the Speedgoats have part vibram soles so hopefully last longer (and Speedgoats sounds cooler )

 

[LesBrass]

I have no 'official' knowledge but... when I fell on the Rota I did NOT use betadine. I took anti-bac cream as I thought it would be easier to travel with... my betadine bottle leaked before so I left it behind.

I felt that the anti-bac wasn't getting to the heart of the matter at the time and bought an anti-septic spray in a pharmacy but that also failed... as you know a few days later I had to stop due to the infection and the hospital used betadine every day to clean and when dressing the cut (plus antibiotics)

Since then I have stuck to Betadine... I do like you, I cut the blister and use plenty of betadine... I cover with a little bit of sterile gauze, then magic tape and then I also sometimes add a little sheeps wool on the outside of all this to give a little extra cushion. I've had some horrible blisters and this does keep them clean. The biggest difference I have found recently is (for me) cutting the blister... that really seems to help them dry out and not get bigger... but I do ensure that I keep them clean. (on my first camino the doc did this to my blisters but I always threaded until recently).

As I say... I have no 'facts' to back up my experience but I ALWAYS take betadine now

p.s. I'm not sure I helped much

 

[peregrina2000]

@peregrina2000 I have heard good things about the Altras but the Speedgoats have part vibram soles so hopefully last longer (and Speedgoats sounds cooler )

For me the life-saving feature of the Altras (ok, that is an exaggeration) is that its toe box is the widest known to humankind. I agree that Speedgoats is a cooler name than Lone Peak, but I am too old to worry about cool. And the sole on my Lone Peak lasted 1000 k last year, so I am ok with whatever it is made of. I just want to be able to walk without pain.

 

[C clearly]

For my foot bag, I carry some toe tubes since my baby toes always get blisters. (Every year I hope that my new shoes will change that, and I'm still hopeful.) Instead of betadyne I take a handful of alcohol wipes - the tiny ones that are used for injections. I use them to clean my scissors and the blister site. I also have antibacterial ointment.

 

[CAJohn]

My advice: I use betadine to clean intact skin before incising it. I do not use it in wounds. It can be used in wounds but should be diluted before irrigation. This can be done in hospitals and operating rooms. Practically speaking, it is easier to use mild soaps and water to clean open wounds. You are least likely to cause yourself more problems.

I do not know about betadine killing "good bacteria.” It does kill human cells that would be involved in healing of the wound. That is the usual reason for not using it in an open wound. (Rubbing alcohol is also good on intact skin, but not in wounds for the same reason)

I don't know that antibiotic ointment has actually been shown to prevent infections (even preventive antibiotics are only indicated in certain situations, none of which involve garden variety foot or toe blisters, because they haven't been shown to be effective and just increase resistance). Antibioic ointments do seem to decrease crusting of the wound. So they make subsequent cleaning of wounds easier (especially abrasions) and make it easier to take out sutures.

If a wound gets infected (redness beyond wound, increasing pain, red line up the leg or fever) see a doctor ASAP for proper care.

 

[trecile]

Omnifix tape (MAGIC TAPE!!!),

The magic of Omnifix is to use it to prevent blisters! I put it on my blister prone areas every day that I'm on the Camino. I don't even wait until I develop a hot spot. I think of it as an insurance policy against blisters.

The Spanish method of using a needle and leaving the thread in did not work for me

No one should be leaving a thread, aka super highway for bacteria in a blister.

 

[nidarosa]

@peregrina2000 I didn't know about the wide toe box, I might try a pair when I see them. Also good to know the sole holds up well - my Hoka Mafates were still going strong after 800 km+ but the lining was worn to shreds. The Speedgoats seemed very narrow, so I almost expected blisters on my little or big toes and brought extra paper tape to reduce friction, but no - not a one. Hope you stay blister free!

 

[Deleted member 397]

Pardon my ignorance but what is omnifix used for on the camino? .I've looked it up and it seems to be a wound dressing

 

[Bodi]

I am a bit like @trecile in that I put Hikers Wool on my blister prone areas before blisters even get a chance to develop. I have two toes that tend to rub together (an age symptom maybe ) but the hikers wool is really effective. I have had the odd blister but I never cut them open; I just wrap it in hikers wool and after a few days the blister heals itself.

 

[AndreaCT]

Hi Laurie

I am leaving in about two weeks, so it is time to get organized. I am starting with my foot bag. I typically bring gauze, scissors, Omnifix tape (MAGIC TAPE!!!), tweezers, small scissors, antibacterial cream and betadyne. No more compeed! No more second skin! No more toe protectors to prevent corns, thanks to my Altras! Maybe I will leave in a little moleskin and molefoam, what do you think?

But my real question is that I don’t really understand the difference between when and how to use betadyne and/or antibacterial cream. When I get a blister, I immediately cut it open (so it is always very small), wash it the best I can depending on where I am, cut away a small patch of skin so it won’t re-form and apply either anti-bacterial cream or betadyne, then cover it with omnifix and gauze. But what is the difference? When should I use which one?

Thanks, buen camino, Laurie
[

I am leaving in about two weeks, so it is time to get organized. I am starting with my foot bag. I typically bring gauze, scissors, Omnifix tape (MAGIC TAPE!!!), tweezers, small scissors, antibacterial cream and betadyne. No more compeed! No more second skin! No more toe protectors to prevent corns, thanks to my Altras! Maybe I will leave in a little moleskin and molefoam, what do you think?

But my real question is that I don’t really understand the difference between when and how to use betadyne and/or antibacterial cream. When I get a blister, I immediately cut it open (so it is always very small), wash it the best I can depending on where I am, cut away a small patch of skin so it won’t re-form and apply either anti-bacterial cream or betadyne, then cover it with omnifix and gauze. But what is the difference? When should I use which one?

Thanks, buen camino, Laurie

Hi Laurie, to answer your question, Betadine is an iodine product, which is an anti-microbial. It can kill fungus and bacteria. An antibiotic cream kills bacteria. You’re doing everything correctly with your blisters. One advantage of the antibiotic cream is that it keeps your wound moist. Wounds need moisture for the cells to migrate from wound edge to wound edge. Dried tissue is dead tissue and that slows down healing. My training and experience is specifically with wounds of the lower leg. Who knew that there could be such a specialty!

 

[Viggo]

According to AdvancedTissue.com..
Flush the wound surface and interior as you can with a mild solution. A saline solution made from a small amount of salt diluted in water works well since it mimics your body’s internal pH. You can also use mild or diluted soap in water works well or some purified water, then wipe the surface with clean gauze.

Bad Idea: Using Strong Antiseptics to Wash Wounds
Conventional wisdom suggests using disinfectants and antiseptics like hydrogen peroxide, rubbing alcohol, or iodine to clean open wounds. Most of these substances are better suited for disinfecting household surfaces and are far too harsh for use on human tissue. They are more likely to damage tissue than help it heal.

Good Idea: Keeping Open Wounds Covered and Moist
Medical professionals began to realize the benefits of covered, moist wounds as far back as the early 1960s. At that time, a Dr. George D. Winter published a paper revealing, “Wounds that were kept moist healed in approximately 12 to 15 days, while the same wound when exposed to the air healed in about 25 to 30 days.”
Covered, moist wounds transition more quickly into the proliferation phase of wound healing where new skin and tissue begins to grow. Wounds left to “air dry” periodically will form a crust over the epithelializing layer, inhibiting the growth of new granular tissue, slowing healing, and encouraging more scar formation. Dry air can also contribute to cell death for tissues not yet covered by a protective skin layer.
Keep your open wounds covered with advanced wound dressings like films and hydrogels. These products are specifically designed to create moist wound healing environments.

 

[peregrina2000]

Hi Laurie


Hi Laurie, to answer your question, Betadine is an iodine product, which is an anti-microbial. It can kill fungus and bacteria. An antibiotic cream kills bacteria. You’re doing everything correctly with your blisters. One advantage of the antibiotic cream is that it keeps your wound moist. Wounds need moisture for the cells to migrate from wound edge to wound edge. Dried tissue is dead tissue and that slows down healing. My training and experience is specifically with wounds of the lower leg. Who knew that there could be such a specialty!

According to AdvancedTissue.com..
Flush the wound surface and interior as you can with a mild solution. A saline solution made from a small amount of salt diluted in water works well since it mimics your body’s internal pH. You can also use mild or diluted soap in water works well or some purified water, then wipe the surface with clean gauze.

Bad Idea: Using Strong Antiseptics to Wash Wounds
Conventional wisdom suggests using disinfectants and antiseptics like hydrogen peroxide, rubbing alcohol, or iodine to clean open wounds. Most of these substances are better suited for disinfecting household surfaces and are far too harsh for use on human tissue. They are more likely to damage tissue than help it heal.

Good Idea: Keeping Open Wounds Covered and Moist
Medical professionals began to realize the benefits of covered, moist wounds as far back as the early 1960s. At that time, a Dr. George D. Winter published a paper revealing, “Wounds that were kept moist healed in approximately 12 to 15 days, while the same wound when exposed to the air healed in about 25 to 30 days.”
Covered, moist wounds transition more quickly into the proliferation phase of wound healing where new skin and tissue begins to grow. Wounds left to “air dry” periodically will form a crust over the epithelializing layer, inhibiting the growth of new granular tissue, slowing healing, and encouraging more scar formation. Dry air can also contribute to cell death for tissues not yet covered by a protective skin layer.
Keep your open wounds covered with advanced wound dressings like films and hydrogels. These products are specifically designed to create moist wound healing environments.

Thanks so much for this information!

Yes, another one of my urban legends bit the dust a few years ago. I always thought that leaving a cut or minor wound in the open air would speed healing. Silly me, I learned from my dermatologist when she started cutting off numerous things from my face and arms that the best way to heal is to have a bit of vaseline on a bandaid and to keep it covered, just like you say.

I really appreciate this information, muchas gracias, buen camino, Laurie

 

[trecile]

Pardon my ignorance but what is omnifix used for on the camino? .I've looked it up and it seems to be a wound dressing

It is a wound dressing, but works beautifully to prevent blisters on your feet. It is a thin slightly stretchy tape with a paper backing that comes on a roll. Since it's flexible it conforms to the contours of your foot. When you apply it to blister prone areas the friction goes on the tape rather than your skin. It comes in 2", 4" & 6" widths. I like the 4". You can find it, or the similar Hypafix tape in most of the farmacias along the Camino.

 

[hel&scott]

Hi Laurie, I guess you have already read @davebugg foot care opus, he appears to have the blister thing well and truely covered. Most caminos I have greased my feet and been blister free, however I have lost my big toe nails every trip, but they grow back, eventually. Even my archillies tendon has repaired itself, mostly.

More important, where are you heading off from?

 

[peregrina2000]

Hi Laurie, I guess you have already read @davebugg foot care opus, he appears to have the blister thing well and truely covered. Most caminos I have greased my feet and been blister free, however I have lost my big toe nails every trip, but they grow back, eventually. Even my archillies tendon has repaired itself, mostly.

More important, where are you heading off from?

Ay yes, those toe nails! I forgot about that. I didn’t lose any last year, for the first time in years and years and years! I attribute that to the Altras as well, but maybe it was just dumb luck.

So glad to hear that your achilles is getting better, too — is the thought of another camino creeping in?

I will leave from Irún on the Vasco on June 5, assuming all goes well. From there to the Olvidado to the Invierno with maybe the Valley of Silence loop thrown in for good measure if I have time and am in good shape.

 

[natefaith]

Laurie: Buen Camino! It's coming up soon!

And just in case this helps anyone, it turns out a couple of my kids are allergic to petrolatum (found in Neosporin and quite a few lotion brands). It makes their skin itchy and rashy. If you fall into that same camp and need to have a healing cream without petrolatum, we've been trying All Good Goop the last few months and have been pleased.

 

[Kiwi-family]

A medical professional we have used (she’s an interesting mix of functional neurologist, kinesiologist and chiropractor) advises not using Betadine or Dettol etc because of the harm that accompanies the good. When she hikes she carries a small vial of vodka that will (in her words) clean without killing!

Thank you for the wound care info - I did an experiment when I came off a bike and got some good grazes. I covered one set and left the others open. The uncovered ones dried out and (I thought) healed more quickly. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say they scabbed more quickly rather than healed.

 

[hel&scott]

So glad to hear that your achilles is getting better, too — is the thought of another camino creeping in?

Nope, my Camino days are over. I get my fix from dipping into the forum, and have my own loop of silence around the orchard these days. Happy walking.

 

[JacTx]

I’m surprised davebugg hasn’t replied.
I won’t go into the blister treatment.
Betadine is a disinfectant and is drying.
Antibacterial ointment prevents infection from bacteria and will keep things moist.
So, I would wash the affected area with soap water. And/or clean with betadine then apply the antibacterial ointment then the bandaid.
BUT thats just me.
—Jackie

 

[Deleted member 397]

It is a wound dressing, but works beautifully to prevent blisters on your feet. It is a thin slightly stretchy tape with a paper backing that comes on a roll. Since it's flexible it conforms to the contours of your foot. When you apply it to blister prone areas the friction goes on the tape rather than your skin. It comes in 2", 4" & 6" widths. I like the 4". You can find it, or the similar Hypafix tape in most of the farmacias along the Camino.

Many thanks for the explanation. ..sounds like a useful product

 

[Meshewszon]

IF possible wash your hands first! Well at least try to make sure they are as clean as possible at the time.
Betadiene/Iodine if that's what you are using for disinfection of the skin surface and cleaning your 'instruments' before opening the skin, then sterile water or a saline solution (a local pharmacy may provide) i.e. salty water for irrigation and cleaning. Then cover the 'wound'.
Keep an eye on the 'wound' - continuing redness and soreness may indicate infection. In such case. Hie thee to a physician soonest lady!

 

[Deleted member 67185]

I’m surprised davebugg hasn’t replied.
I won’t go into the blister treatment.
Betadine is a disinfectant and is drying.
Antibacterial ointment prevents infection from bacteria and will keep things moist.
So, I would wash the affected area with soap water. And/or clean with betadine then apply the antibacterial ointment then the bandaid.
BUT thats just me.
—Jackie

I sent Laurie a PM with information on several things and items which she may find useful. Doing it that way keeps the judges and juries away

 

[Penbaysail]

Both Betadine and an antibiotic ointment will reduce the bioburden of a wound (the overall amount of bacteria). You can’t eliminate bacteria, but reducing it is a generally favored for better healing.

Open full thickness wounds need to be kept moist and clean for closure, but blisters are almost always partial thickness wounds, and benefit from the drying action of Betadine solution (not the detergent formulation) rather than the moisturizing effect of ointment. Skin integrity is lessened by maceration (excess moisture), hence the general use of wool and/or synthetic liner socks and the avoidance of cotton socks to lessen blister formation.

It hasn’t been mentioned, but honey is an effective wound dressing. Applied to a piece of gauze, it can be put on a wound to initiate and perpetuate healing. I wouldn’t walk on a honey dressing, but I wouldn’t walk on a full thickness wound either.

All in all, I’d favor Betadine solution to clean up and dry out a blister site.

 

[Hilarious]

A medical professional we have used (she’s an interesting mix of functional neurologist, kinesiologist and chiropractor) advises not using Betadine or Dettol etc because of the harm that accompanies the good. When she hikes she carries a small vial of vodka that will (in her words) clean without killing!

Thank you for the wound care info - I did an experiment when I came off a bike and got some good grazes. I covered one set and left the others open. The uncovered ones dried out and (I thought) healed more quickly. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say they scabbed more quickly rather than healed.

Like the vodka idea! And if it doesn’t get used for the external wounds it could be beneficial internally. As someone else said on this forum they don’t take anything that doesn’t have two or more uses! LOL

 

[Jane Silverman]

Well, if we deleted every post whose question could be answered elsewhere on the internet, we wouldn’t have many posts left to read. I was just wondering if forum members had experience using these two different products.

I don’t want to start a battle about whether to open blisters or not. I understand that some people think it’s a bad idea. I have tried many different methods on the camino, and this is the one that works best for me. Compeed doesn’t work for me. The Spanish method of using a needle and leaving the thread in did not work for me. Surrounding the blister with molefoam and taping it to prevent further pounding helped with the blister I was treating but usually made another blister pop up somewhere else. Leaving blisters alone did not work for me, because small blisters just turned into huge blisters. If I could change shoes, maybe that would be the solution, but since I cannot walk in my Chacos, my only alternative is to walk barefoot and leave the blister alone or deal with it when it is nascent. I am not encouraging anyone else to try it. Every time I fall and scrape my leg or arm, the top layer of skin has come off. I treat it and it heals. The same works for me with blisters.

BUT.... back to the question. I have gone to the internet and seen that Betadine also makes an antibacterial cream! So that’s confusing. For years, I have only used antibacterial cream, but last year had several people tell me to put betadine on first if I was out in the boonies and didn’t have access to sterile (or close to sterile) conditions. Then at the next stop, wash it all with soap and hot water and put on the anti-bacterial cream.

Betadine is used and recommended so widely in Spanish farmacias, it just left me wondering. But maybe I’ll just go back to only using antibacterial cream.

Shoe change might be the thing. I found my feet will only tolerate Keen sandals, and wear them at home too. For “dressy” I have tall black boots that my feet accept.

 

[CaroleH]

Buen camino Laurie. Your route plans sound wonderful. I'm envious. Good luck with the blister issue. I always use Betadine, always get blisters, never infection, but in light of what everyone has posted above, I'm now wondering.... Perhaps Jackie's suggestion, sterilising with Betadine, then keeping moist with antiseptic ointment might be worth a try.
Happy for a PM catchup anytime.
Buen camino, Carole

 

[Carmel L]

I'm with Laurie on the treatment of blisters. But just to throw the cat amongst the pidgeons.... I use Tea Tree Oil(a plant based natural anti bacterial)to cleanse the unopened blister then after. Pop on a bandaid & KTape after to keep in place. Blisters on feet will be living in hot sweaty socks and boots and imo don't need a cream to keep them moist. Leave intact until dressing starts to shift or is uncomfortable. Hikers wools rocks as well though!!!!