OBSOLETE COVID THREAD Portugal reimposes rules as COVID-19 cases rise (Nov 25, 2021)

[jungleboy]

New restrictions announced today, including requiring all passengers to show a negative test upon arrival regardless of vaccination status.

Portugal reimposes rules as COVID-19 cases rise (Reuters)

Parts of the article referring to restrictions that may affect pilgrims are pasted below:

Portugal, which has one of the world's highest rates of vaccination against COVID-19, announced it would reimpose restrictions to stop a surge in cases, ordering all passengers flying into the country to show a negative test certificate on arrival.

(Prime Minister António) Costa also announced that those fully vaccinated must also present proof of a negative coronavirus test to enter nightclubs, bars, large events and care homes, and that the EU digital certificate would be required to stay in hotels, go to the gym, or dine indoors in restaurants.

 

[alexwalker]

Isn't this shooting down the accepted EU corona certificate? It seems Portugal is leaving the EU concept of the certificate...

This is really bad news for easing the travel possibilities both within and to/from Portugal, and maybe also the whole EU.

It will be very interesting to see how Brussels react to this.

 

[isawtman]

Oh No. Ivar may have to do a Covid Update

 

[MinaKamina]

Isn't this shooting down the accepted EU corona certificate? It seems Portugal is leaving the EU concept of the certificate...

This is really bad news for easing the travel possibilities both within and to/from Portugal, and maybe also the whole EU.

It will be very interesting to see how Brussels react to this.

Since people who are vaccinated can also pass on the virus, it makes sense NOT to rely on the QR code and demand an additional test. Go Portugal! Best to keep the EU out of the war against COVID.

 

[trecile]

Since people who are vaccinated can also pass on the virus, it makes sense NOT to rely on the QR code and demand an additional test. Go Portugal!

I agree! But I don't know what you mean by your next statement. Everyone needs to help in beating Covid.

Best to keep the EU out of the war against COVID.

 

[Kathor1]

While we were commenting in this thread “the EU” had already published proposals which if adopted will affect those who travel from outside to EU countries in 2022 and not only those who travel to Portugal. Quote from press release: Member States should allow in only vaccinated, recovered or essential travellers. The list of countries in a sufficiently good epidemiological situation from where all travel should be possible should be discontinued.

If adopted and implemented, this would put an end to any Camino plans of those are not vaccinated and don’t live in the EU and from March 2022 onwards.

See Coronavirus: Commission proposes an updated framework for travel from outside the EU, prioritising vaccinated travellers, with strong safeguards

They also proposed an update to the rules for travel within the EU. Now that this question is settled - they are involved, they’ve said something - we can concentrate again on the new situation as to travelling to Portugal during the coming weeks and during the last few weeks of 2021. What new rules 2022 will bring … we will know soon enough.

 

[Marbe2]

The list of countries in a sufficiently good epidemiological situation from where all travel should be possible should be discontinued.

As individual European counties ban travel from South Africa due to a new variant!

 

[Former member 99290]

Lots of moving parts. Still, we remain optimistic for our travel plans from Australia to France and Spain in the Spring inc Via de la Plata … We plan for the best … and expect, well, who knows? On verra!

 

[Lexicos]

I’m feeling quite pessimistic now having read the above and bearing in mind the news coming out of Europe generally. And the Winter has barely started. It’s not looking great.
Vaccination stops you from getting really very sick but of course you can still catch the virus and it will knock you off your feet for a few days minimum. I know, because I’m in self isolation right now with covid. Even the self isolation/ quarantine is tough. 10-14 days in a small space, it’s no fun.
Anyway, point is, from where I sit (Australia) planning a Camino for next year is starting to sound ever more like wishful thinking. Fatigue with restrictions, limited uptake of vaccination in some places and now protests and violence across Europe is making the Camino sound like a piped dream.
We may have to settle for homegrown hikes in our great wilderness. God knows, there’s plenty of it and I’ve seen my fair share these past two years. It’s not the Camino and it’s not Spain but it is pretty amazing nonetheless.

I remain hopeful ….. though a little less than yesterday and the day before.

EDIT: I should mention that if you are infected it most likely will put you out of action for minimum 2-4 days and you will most likely need someone to bring you food and drink and look after you. An added complication if travelling alone. Sorry for this bad news. I wish it were otherwise.

 

[Former member 99290]

. I know, because I’m in self isolation right now with covid. Even the self isolation/ quarantine is tough. 10-14 days in a small space, it’s no fun.

Sorry to hear that. Wish you a speedy recovery. Take care.

 

[Kathor1]

The list of countries in a sufficiently good epidemiological situation from where all travel should be possible should be discontinued.

As individual European counties ban travel from South Africa due to a new variant!

I don't understand? If the list of epidemiological safe countries is abolished next year, it means in practical terms that EU countries will not let enter everyone from countries like New Zealand, Australia and Canada as it has been the case for nearly two years or most of this time. They, too, will have to prove that they are vaccinated or recently recovered from illness. South Africa was never on the list and was never considered an epidemiological safe country. The focus will move away from where you come and move to whether you are vaccinated or not, and if you are not vaccinated you are not welcome. It makes sense to me.

BTW, did anyone else ban flights from South Africa so far, other than the UK?

 

[Bristle Boy]

I agree! But I don't know what you mean by your next statement. Everyone needs to help in beating Covid.

Unfortunately "everyone" hasn't.

 

[Kathor1]

I should mention that if you are infected it most likely will put you out of action for minimum 2-4 days and you will most likely need someone to bring you food and drink and look after you.

Get better soon, @Lexicos. I have a family member who got ill despited having completed their vaccination program but who could self-isolate, who was looked after by a close friend who provided food and drink and who did not occupy a hospital bed for weeks on end. I am reluctant to belabour this point again but since you referred to the worsening situation in large parts of Europe and news coming from there: It is overwhelmingly the non-vaccinated minority who end up in hospital and occupy beds and need to be cared for by staff where both beds and personnel are desperately needed for people with less foreseeable and less easily preventable severe illnesses and accidents. We know that we will continue to have to live with the virus for several Camino years to come but it doesn't have to be this bad. I hope this fills you with confidence and that you will travel to Spain soon if that is your wish.

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

BTW, did anyone else ban flights from South Africa so far, other than the UK?

Yes , the Netherlands from today 12 noon.

 

[Marbe2]

I don't understand? If the list of epidemiological safe countries is abolished next year, it means in practical terms that EU countries will not let enter everyone from countries like New Zealand, Australia and Canada as it has been the case for nearly two years or most of this time. They, too, will have to prove that they are vaccinated or recently recovered from illness. South Africa was never on the list and was never considered an epidemiological safe country. The focus will move away from where you come and move to whether you are vaccinated or not, and if you are not vaccinated you are not welcome. It makes sense to me.

BTW, did anyone else ban flights from South Africa so far, other than the UK?

yes, Germany, Italy, France and UK.

 

[Marbe2]

I’m feeling quite pessimistic now having read the above and bearing in mind the news coming out of Europe generally. And the Winter has barely started. It’s not looking great.
Vaccination stops you from getting really very sick but of course you can still catch the virus and it will knock you off your feet for a few days minimum. I know, because I’m in self isolation right now with covid. Even the self isolation/ quarantine is tough. 10-14 days in a small space, it’s no fun.
Anyway, point is, from where I sit (Australia) planning a Camino for next year is starting to sound ever more like wishful thinking. Fatigue with restrictions, limited uptake of vaccination in some places and now protests and violence across Europe is making the Camino sound like a piped dream.
We here may have to settle for homegrown hikes in our great wilderness. God knows, there’s plenty of it and I’ve seen my fair share these past two years. It’s not the Camino and it’s not Spain but it is pretty amazing nonetheless.

I remain hopeful ….. though a little less than yesterday and the day before.

EDIT: I should mention that if you are infected it most likely will put you out of action for minimum 2-4 days and you will most likely need someone to bring you food and drink and look after you. An added complication if travelling alone. Sorry for this bad news. I wish it were otherwise.

Sorry that you are going through this. Hope your recovery occurs without any complications. Update us when you feel better. Get well!

 

[Lexicos]

Sorry that you are going through this. Hope your recovery occurs without any complications. Update us when you feel better. Get well!

Many thanks Marbe2 and Kathar. I’m one of the lucky ones, with double vaccination and tested immediately with first symptom. The vaccine, 2 days full rest and good care from family have got me over the worst. Almost back to normal on day 3. Thank you for your good wishes. I reckon I dodged the bullet this time.

 

[Martin 888]

New restrictions announced today, including requiring all passengers to show a negative test upon arrival regardless of vaccination status.

Portugal reimposes rules as COVID-19 cases rise (Reuters)

Parts of the article referring to restrictions that may affect pilgrims are pasted below:

Thanks for the timely update jungleboy…. Classic timing as we’re heading to Portugal from Canada on Monday. We already have to be double vax’d and tested to fly to the country anyway so no change in that. However, what I’m not clear about is the negative test requirement to enter a bar or restaurant? Do you happen to know any additional details? Surely people aren’t going to have to pay 70 euro+ to get a PCR test or similar every time they want to go to a local bar or restaurant?

 

[alexwalker]

BTW, did anyone else ban flights from South Africa so far, other than the UK?

Norway: banned SA and some of its surrounding countries today (6 altogether)

 

[alexwalker]

Thanks for the timely update jungleboy…. Classic timing as we’re heading to Portugal from Canada on Monday. We already have to be double vax’d and tested to fly to the country anyway so no change in that. However, what I’m not clear about is the negative test requirement to enter a bar or restaurant? Do you happen to know any additional details? Surely people aren’t going to have to pay 70 euro+ to get a PCR test or similar every time they want to go to a local bar or restaurant?

Everything is changing for the worse as we "speak": As I understand it, even if vaccinated, you have to test yourself every 24 hours in order to be accepted into most places....

 

[jungleboy]

Thanks for the timely update jungleboy…. Classic timing as we’re heading to Portugal from Canada on Monday. We already have to be double vax’d and tested to fly to the country anyway so no change in that. However, what I’m not clear about is the negative test requirement to enter a bar or restaurant? Do you happen to know any additional details? Surely people aren’t going to have to pay 70 euro+ to get a PCR test or similar every time they want to go to a local bar or restaurant?

I am also flying to Portugal (from the Netherlands) on Monday. The new restrictions don't come into effect until Wednesday (Dec 1).

With regard to your question, the Reuters article may be slightly incorrect re: restaurants. Estamos On is the Portuguese government's COVID measures website.

This is the relevant section from yesterday's announcement:

• A apresentação do certificado digital será obrigatória no acesso a:
  • Restaurantes;
  • Estabelecimentos turísticos e alojamento local;
  • Eventos com lugares marcados;
  • Ginásios.
• Exigência de teste negativo obrigatório (mesmo para as pessoas vacinadas) no acesso a:
  • Visitas a lares;
  • Visitas a pacientes internados em estabelecimentos de saúde;
  • Grandes eventos sem lugares marcados (ou em recintos improvisados) e recintos desportivos;
  • Discotecas e bares.

Restaurants come under the first category (presentation of a vaccination certificate). The things that require a negative test (even if vaccinated) in the second section are: retirement homes, visiting patients in hospitals or other health care centres, 'big events' such as sporting events, and discos and bars. What qualifies as a bar might also be something that is up for debate.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

I don't understand? If the list of epidemiological safe countries is abolished next year, it means in practical terms that EU countries will not let enter everyone from countries like New Zealand, Australia and Canada as it has been the case for nearly two years or most of this time. They, too, will have to prove that they are vaccinated or recently recovered from illness. South Africa was never on the list and was never considered an epidemiological safe country. The focus will move away from where you come and move to whether you are vaccinated or not, and if you are not vaccinated you are not welcome. It makes sense to me.

BTW, did anyone else ban flights from South Africa so far, other than the UK?

Israel?

 

[alexwalker]

It seems the ban of some African countries came to late: Current Norw. news report that the SA virus variant has been found in Belgium. This is disturbing, regarding what new measures may come. Not the time for travel, IMHO.

 

[Kathor1]

What qualifies as a bar might also be something that is up for debate.

It's good that you mention this. Since it says "discotecas e bares" and not "restaurantes e bares" and bares and restaurantes are in different categories, my guess is that bares are more akin to nightclubs and not the bars that pilgrims frequent during the day to have a snack or a coffee. If so, the new measures implemented in Portugal would be in line with those currently implemented (again) in a number of other countries.

 

[judithrubenstein]

I’m feeling quite pessimistic now having read the above and bearing in mind the news coming out of Europe generally. And the Winter has barely started. It’s not looking great.
Vaccination stops you from getting really very sick but of course you can still catch the virus and it will knock you off your feet for a few days minimum. I know, because I’m in self isolation right now with covid. Even the self isolation/ quarantine is tough. 10-14 days in a small space, it’s no fun.
Anyway, point is, from where I sit (Australia) planning a Camino for next year is starting to sound ever more like wishful thinking. Fatigue with restrictions, limited uptake of vaccination in some places and now protests and violence across Europe is making the Camino sound like a piped dream.
We here may have to settle for homegrown hikes in our great wilderness. God knows, there’s plenty of it and I’ve seen my fair share these past two years. It’s not the Camino and it’s not Spain but it is pretty amazing nonetheless.

I remain hopeful ….. though a little less than yesterday and the day before.

EDIT: I should mention that if you are infected it most likely will put you out of action for minimum 2-4 days and you will most likely need someone to bring you food and drink and look after you. An added complication if travelling alone. Sorry for this bad news. I wish it were otherwise.

Here in the United States, I am feeling similarly. Like just taking the next year or two to hike all over my own country, maybe even limit it to my own Northeast region; there's certainly enough to see and walk all over here. Then move on to the Camino a few years from now.

 

[jungleboy]

It's good that you mention this. Since it says "discotecas e bares" and not "restaurantes e bares" and bares and restaurantes are in a different categories, my guess is that bares are more akin to nightclubs and not the bars that pilgrims frequent during the day to have a snack or a coffee. If so, the new measures implemented in Portugal would be in line with those currently implemented in other countries.

That was also my interpretation but I didn't want to speculate too much!

 

[Kathor1]

That was also my interpretation but I didn't want to speculate too much!

Type bares restaurantes into Google News, without specifying a .pt website and you get news about new Covid-19 related restrictions for access to bars and restaurants that are only a few hours old but not necessarily referring to Portugal. They refer to Catalonia and Galicia!

Wherever we live in the EU, we are very aware of the fact that we are again in a rapidly developing environment of Covid-19 related restrictions. But unlike last time, there is now a difference between the rules for those who are vaccinated and those who are not.

Have a safe journey back to Portugal and thank you for keeping us up to date!

 

[Ronald Boivin]

I’m feeling quite pessimistic now having read the above and bearing in mind the news coming out of Europe generally. And the Winter has barely started. It’s not looking great.
Vaccination stops you from getting really very sick but of course you can still catch the virus and it will knock you off your feet for a few days minimum. I know, because I’m in self isolation right now with covid. Even the self isolation/ quarantine is tough. 10-14 days in a small space, it’s no fun.
Anyway, point is, from where I sit (Australia) planning a Camino for next year is starting to sound ever more like wishful thinking. Fatigue with restrictions, limited uptake of vaccination in some places and now protests and violence across Europe is making the Camino sound like a piped dream.
We here may have to settle for homegrown hikes in our great wilderness. God knows, there’s plenty of it and I’ve seen my fair share these past two years. It’s not the Camino and it’s not Spain but it is pretty amazing nonetheless.

I remain hopeful ….. though a little less than yesterday and the day before.

EDIT: I should mention that if you are infected it most likely will put you out of action for minimum 2-4 days and you will most likely need someone to bring you food and drink and look after you. An added complication if travelling alone. Sorry for this bad news. I wish it were otherwise.

Wishing you the best from cold Western Canada ! Being the eternal optimist: This is really a good exercise in cultivating hope and manifesting possibilities. Preparing for what-if scenarios while on a Camino. If this encourages you: I’m continuing to plan the Camino Mozarabe which I had to firehouse this year. The energy of his planning opens possibilités for its realization.

 

[Martin 888]

I am also flying to Portugal (from the Netherlands) on Monday. The new restrictions don't come into effect until Wednesday (Dec 1).

With regard to your question, the Reuters article may be slightly incorrect re: restaurants. Estamos On is the Portuguese government's COVID measures website.

This is the relevant section from yesterday's announcement:


Restaurants come under the first category (presentation of a vaccination certificate). The things that require a negative test (even if vaccinated) in the second section are: retirement homes, visiting patients in hospitals or other health care centres, 'big events' such as sporting events, and discos and bars. What qualifies as a bar might also be something that is up for debate.

Thanks a million for the additional insight…..dear oh dear, here we go again it seems ! Safe travels !

 

[t2andreo]

Isn't this shooting down the accepted EU corona certificate? It seems Portugal is leaving the EU concept of the certificate...

This is really bad news for easing the travel possibilities both within and to/from Portugal, and maybe also the whole EU.

It will be very interesting to see how Brussels react to this.

Alex:

IIRC, the EU rules require a floor or basic set of restrictions to combat the COVID pandemic, BUT the rules allow member states to be MORE restrictive. They cannot be less restrictive - at least if they are following the guidance from Brussels. At least that is my understanding. This said, please correct me if I am wrong.

I believe Portugal is acting in it’s best interests to protect it’s people and their economy. They, and Spain, already had one of the highest vaccination rates in all the world. But variants emerge over time and then we have the ‘no Vax’ crowd to contend with. The Camino is a distant consideration for the government when viewed against another surge in hospitalizations and deaths.

If I were in charge, I would always act in the best interests of my people. If there is a disconnect, then Brussels and the EU be dammed. Time has shown that a solution that works in Germany, France or Belgium likely will not work across the entire 29 nation bloc. I side with Portugal (and Spain) on this issue.

I don’t like reimposition of rules and travel restrictions either. But I understand why Portugal wants to get out in front of this developing surge. I expect Spain may have to do the same.

Here in the US, the new COVID surge or wave appears to be following the onset of winter weather. As people are compelled to spend more time indoors the number of COVID cases rises - almost in a direct relationship. You can overlay a map of COVID cases with a weather map. It is nearly a perfect match.

All it takes is one unvaccinated person at a holiday party or other gathering to infect people. People who are vaccinated can expect moderate symptoms. But other, unvaccinated persons should be more concerned.

According to medical professionals here, virtually all of the serious cases requiring hospitalization or who die FROM COVID are of unvaccinated persons. There are a low number of serious cases and deaths among the fully vaccinated. But these are almost entirely among persons with other comorbidities. These folks die WITH COVID. This is a critical distinction.

Vaccinations only increase your antibody level. If you have a normal immune system, then add antibodies through repeated vaccinations, you end up with an enhanced level of antibody protection.

Conversely, if you come to the party with a compromised or reduced immune system for any number of reasons, the extra antibodies attained through repeated vaccinations and boosters might result in a protection level equal to a normal, healthy person who is not vaccinated. This accounts for “breakthrough” cases.

Finally, there are always outlier anomalies - healthy persons with fully functioning immune systems - with full vaccinations - who still get seriously ill or die. These are statistical anomalies. Nearly every case can eventually be traced to lack of vaccinations or an underlying comorbidity.

Hope this helps,

Tom

 

[peregrina2000]

I know this is not the first time these restrictions have been in place. @jungleboy (or anyone else) do you have any insight into how the requirement for covid certificates will work when applied to those from the US who don’t have access to them? I remember the last time similar restrictions were in place, forum members reported that restaurants and hotels were accepting CDC cards from US travelers. I never had a feeling for how generalized that practice was, but am wondering how things will play out now for those from the US and other places outside the EU.

 

[1deniseB]

Isn't this shooting down the accepted EU corona certificate? It seems Portugal is leaving the EU concept of the certificate...

This is really bad news for easing the travel possibilities both within and to/from Portugal, and maybe also the whole EU.

It will be very interesting to see how Brussels react to this.

Perhaps, but it makes sense with the rise of COVID cases.

 

[Marbe2]

Here in the United States, I am feeling similarly. Like just taking the next year or two to hike all over my own country, maybe even limit it to my own Northeast region; there's certainly enough to see and walk all over here. Then move on to the Camino a few years from now.

Many more need to be vaccinated in our countries before we will beat this virus and its variants. sorry to say. But those who desire to travel will just need to adapt.

I am optimistic! Based on our and others camino(s in 2021.

We and thousands of others were able to walk during the Spring, Summer and Fall months of 2021. We met folks from South America, Canada, Ireland, USA, Germany, Italy, Sweden and, of course, Spain. We had numerous conversations with others with proper distancing. Almost anyone I encountered complied with safety protocols. Disinfectant was omnipresent in businesses. We were able to get a Booster-two weeks before we left. Food was good, private rooms were clean. Testing went smooth for our return home. Everyone we met was happy to be out and about! I felt safer on the camino then when I shop at home.

Therefore, if cases of Covid19 diminish, as they did last Spring, I am bullish on heading back to Spain! And Authorities will have had a year practice dealing with visitors during a pandemic.

 

[MichelleElynHogan]

Admins - Please delete if this post violates any Forum Policies.

Some have mentioned that this reinstatement of restrictions may be going against EU policy.

No.

Portugal is responding to increased infection rates, thereby, protecting their population to the best of their ability as well as the rest of the EU. If another country experiences increases, it would be hoped that they will respond in the same manner.

My prediction that this pandemic will be with us till 2025 has not been well received, understandably. I do understand that a majority have not experienced a pandemic before and this does sound incredible, the forecasts are proving correct, thus far.

Here is a link to a brief history of the Spanish flu, (4 minute read):

How Long Did the Flu Pandemic of 1918 Last? | Britannica

The influenza pandemic of 1918–19 was the most severe pandemic of the 20th century and, in terms of total numbers of deaths, among the most devastating in human history. Outbreaks occurred in every inhabited part of the world in three waves. The second wave was the most deadly.

www.britannica.com

The World was a larger place 100 years ago. But as you will see from the reading, the Spanish Flu survived and travelled throughout the Globe, starting in the final year of World War I.

Today, we, and the Pandemic, will rise and fall, win or lose, as we follow the rules / vaccinate. However, as long as there are targets for the virus to find, and evolve itself to a higher efficiency, because it is being allowed to survive longer and longer, a 5 year pandemic is feasible.

 

[Kathor1]

@jungleboy (or anyone else) do you have any insight into how the requirement for covid certificates will work when applied to those from the US who don’t have access to them? I remember the last time similar restrictions were in place, forum members reported that restaurants and hotels were accepting CDC cards from US travelers.

Not a reply to your question as you are asking for vaccinated travellers from the USA and how their vaccination cards are handled in Portuguese restaurants but related and of possible interest to a number of forum members: Digital vaccination certificates issued by the UK, by Israel and by New Zealand are recognised by the EU, i.e. by all EU countries and will work with their verification system, i.e. scanners.

You can use them in just the same way in Portugal as vaccinated Portuguese and vaccinated visitors from other EU countries use theirs.

For New Zealand, this is fairly new, and you probably heard about it in your national news. Quote: COVID-19 vaccination and test certificates issued by New Zealand in accordance with the ‘My Covid Record’ system shall, for the purpose of facilitating the right of free movement within the Union, be considered as equivalent to [the EU Digital COVID Certificate/pass sanitaire/green pass]. Applicable since 15 November 2021.

 

[Kathor1]

may be going against EU policy.

Can we please concentrate on facts? And by facts I mean the rules that are applicable right now? I understand that people want to express their opinions but try to be short. I try to abstain from commenting on remarks about EU policy stuff or try to not comment much. Only a few forum members have an inkling of how much, how detailed and how long I can write about EU policy, about the EU decision making process and the actual workings of the EU when I feel like it ...

 

[lisagb]

Isn't this shooting down the accepted EU corona certificate? It seems Portugal is leaving the EU concept of the certificate...

This is really bad news for easing the travel possibilities both within and to/from Portugal, and maybe also the whole EU.

It will be very interesting to see how Brussels react to this.

No I think their govt is just adding the negative test to the vax status. We still have to have a negative pcr Covid test along with our vax QR code to get into Canada.

 

[La Rubia]

Thanks for the timely update jungleboy…. Classic timing as we’re heading to Portugal from Canada on Monday. We already have to be double vax’d and tested to fly to the country anyway so no change in that. However, what I’m not clear about is the negative test requirement to enter a bar or restaurant? Do you happen to know any additional details? Surely people aren’t going to have to pay 70 euro+ to get a PCR test or similar every time they want to go to a local bar or restaurant?

I live in Portugal - rapid tests are very cheap (couple of euros) here and you can get them at any pharmacy and carry your results with you.

 

[Former member 91017]

No I think their govt is just adding the negative test to the vax status. We still have to have a negative pcr Covid test along with our vax QR code to get into Canada.

Oh... but if you are an Air Canada client -- I know for sure -- they are selling the SWITCH RT-LAMP test kit for your trip (departure and return), and if you get that kit, it is accepted as equal to the PCR -- and it's cheaper, and doesn't require an appointment. You do the test yourself, via Telehealth call on your phone. A nurse observes, and you scan your test to the system... which send you back a QR code.
I received my kits yesterday and they are good for 9 months. Flying out via TransAt, and home via Air Canada.

 

[VNwalking]

Can we please concentrate on facts? And by facts I mean the rules that are applicable right now? [...] Only a few forum members have an idea of how much, how detailed and how long I can write about EU policy, about the EU decision finding process and the actual workings of the EU when I feel like it .

"Only the facts, Ma'am." Is an exceptionally good idea. But a bit novel these days.
Seriously, @Kathar1na, thank you for being an accurate voice amongst all the shouting.

starting in the final year of World War II.

Surely you mean WWI?

 

[Former member 91017]

Admins - Please delete if this post violates any Forum Policies.

Some have mentioned that this reinstatement of restrictions may be going against EU policy.

No.

Portugal is responding to increased infection rates, thereby, protecting their population to the best of their ability as well as the rest of the EU. If another country experiences increases, it would be hoped that they will respond in the same manner.

My prediction that this pandemic will be with us till 2025 has not been well received, understandably. I do understand that a majority have not experienced a pandemic before and this does sound incredible, the forecasts are proving correct, thus far.

Here is a link to a brief history of the Spanish flu, (4 minute read):

How Long Did the Flu Pandemic of 1918 Last? | Britannica

The influenza pandemic of 1918–19 was the most severe pandemic of the 20th century and, in terms of total numbers of deaths, among the most devastating in human history. Outbreaks occurred in every inhabited part of the world in three waves. The second wave was the most deadly.

www.britannica.com

The World was a larger place 100 years ago. But as you will see from the reading, the Spanish Flu survived and travelled throughout the Globe, starting in the final year of World War II.

Today, we, and the Pandemic, will rise and fall, win or lose, as we follow the rules / vaccinate. However, as long as there are targets for the virus to find, and evolve itself to a higher efficiency, because it is being allowed to survive longer and longer, a 5 year pandemic is feasible.

Thank you... I was too tired to write as much.

 

[lorca1]

I’m feeling quite pessimistic now having read the above and bearing in mind the news coming out of Europe generally. And the Winter has barely started. It’s not looking great.
Vaccination stops you from getting really very sick but of course you can still catch the virus and it will knock you off your feet for a few days minimum. I know, because I’m in self isolation right now with covid. Even the self isolation/ quarantine is tough. 10-14 days in a small space, it’s no fun.
Anyway, point is, from where I sit (Australia) planning a Camino for next year is starting to sound ever more like wishful thinking. Fatigue with restrictions, limited uptake of vaccination in some places and now protests and violence across Europe is making the Camino sound like a piped dream.
We here may have to settle for homegrown hikes in our great wilderness. God knows, there’s plenty of it and I’ve seen my fair share these past two years. It’s not the Camino and it’s not Spain but it is pretty amazing nonetheless.

I remain hopeful ….. though a little less than yesterday and the day before.

EDIT: I should mention that if you are infected it most likely will put you out of action for minimum 2-4 days and you will most likely need someone to bring you food and drink and look after you. An added complication if travelling alone. Sorry for this bad news. I wish it were otherwise.

So sad for you. But . . . live in hope. Speedy recovery.

 

[nycwalking]

No advice.

Just a wish and a lament.

False climaxes are too much.

I want this horror flic to end!

 

[andycohn]

I am not sure the Reuters article is accurate insofar as it implies that you need to be vaccinated AND show a negative covid test before entering into a bar or restaurant. The Schengen visa website just published an article that quotes the prime minister as saying "that travellers would also be required to present a negative Coronavirus test OR one of the other certificates that fall under the Digital COVID-19 Pass in order to be permitted access to different events, bars, restaurants, accommodations, and gyms, among others, while in Portugal."

The "certificates that fall under the DIgital Covid-19 Pass" include a certificate of vaccination.

In short, assuming this article is correct, vaccinated travelers will not face any changes once they are in Portugal. The only change is that you will have to be tested and vaccinated before flying into Portugal in the first place, but that's no big deal. (We had to get tested before flying into Italy in September to walk the Via Francigena).

Here's the entire article from the Schengen visa website:

Portugal Announces New COVID-19 Measures – Imposes Testing Rules Even for Vaccinated Travellers

Due to the worsened COVID-19 situation and increased infection cases registered in Portugal, Prime Minister António Costa has announced that the country will introduce new measures that aim to keep the further spread of the virus under control. Speaking at a press conference at the end of the...

www.schengenvisainfo.com

 

[MinaKamina]

I am not sure the Reuters article is accurate insofar as it implies that you need to be vaccinated AND show a negative covid test before entering into a bar or restaurant. The Schengen visa website just published an article that quotes the prime minister as saying "that travellers would also be required to present a negative Coronavirus test OR one of the other certificates that fall under the Digital COVID-19 Pass in order to be permitted access to different events, bars, restaurants, accommodations, and gyms, among others, while in Portugal."

The "certificates that fall under the DIgital Covid-19 Pass" include a certificate of vaccination.

In short, assuming this article is correct, vaccinated travelers will not face any changes once they are in Portugal. The only change is that you will have to be tested and vaccinated before flying into Portugal in the first place, but that's no big deal. (We had to get tested before flying into Italy in September to walk the Via Francigena).

Here's the entire article from the Schengen visa website:

Portugal Announces New COVID-19 Measures – Imposes Testing Rules Even for Vaccinated Travellers

Due to the worsened COVID-19 situation and increased infection cases registered in Portugal, Prime Minister António Costa has announced that the country will introduce new measures that aim to keep the further spread of the virus under control. Speaking at a press conference at the end of the...

www.schengenvisainfo.com

Read on and the text says:


Additionally, the same has revealed that clubs will be closed during the same period, from January 2 until January 9. Whereas, from December 1, only those who present a negative COVID-19 test result will be permitted to enter clubs, even if they have completed their vaccination process.

The COVID test taken before entering Portugal will not be valid during a longer stay, so expect to take more tests in between arrival and departure for accessing those places where it is required.

Tonight, in the Netherlands, we were strongly advised to take a test before visiting friends. It is not an obligation (yet) but regular testing combined with vaccination and wearing masks is quickly becoming the rule in Europe.

 

[Kathor1]

Here's the entire article from the Schengen visa website:
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/ne...testing-rules-even-for-vaccinated-travellers/

@andycohn, just for info: Schengenvisainfo is not an official site of any kind. They are mainly recycling news media articles and press releases. There are often inaccuracies in the Schengenvisainfo articles.

FWIW, as far as I can see, the decree in question that the Portuguese Prime Minister announced has not yet been published. If so, publication is likely to happen very soon, and then the official Portuguese government websites about Covid-19 related rules will be updated accordingly.

 

[alexwalker]

This is a situation that is evolving as we "speak". It is all in the making right now and within the days to come.

 

[Ellann]

Lots of moving parts. Still, we remain optimistic for our travel plans from Australia to France and Spain in the Spring inc Via de la Plata … We plan for the best … and expect, well, who knows? On verra!

I am from Australia as well, and was so excited to finally book my flight to Porto for May 2022, and now today all I am hearing and reading is the new variant emanating from South Africa. Things have changed so much in a matter of three weeks. Trying to remain optimistic, hoping that May is far enough into the future that the current and emerging situation sorts itself out. Otherwise yet again a postponement, at least I can reschedule my flight. As you say "on verra", we will see!.

 

[AlanSykes]

BTW, did anyone else ban flights from South Africa so far, other than the UK?

Yes , the Netherlands from today 12 noon.

yes, Germany, Italy, France

Norway: banned SA and some of its surrounding countries today (6 altogether

According to the TVE news report in the bar I'm in 3 days from Santiago, Spain just joined the list (also banning flights from Botswana).

 

[alexwalker]

According to the TVE news report in the bar I'm in 3 days from Santiago, Spain just joined the list (also banning flights from Botswana).

I am convinced that the whole EU will issue strict regulations soon, I am afraid. But the way they talk about it, it sounds like serious troble for coming pilgrims everywhere.

Buen Camino, and all the best to you, Alan!

 

[Marbe2]

USA bans flights from several African nations including S. Africa. US citizens permitted to return home.

 

[Former member 99290]

But the way they talk about it, it sounds like serious troble for coming pilgrims everywhere

Well, that may be so … time will tell. But for those of us planning a Spring or later Camino a lot can happen between now and then including positive news. If we don’t get to walk as planned, we will be disappointed - but more profoundly if we don’t get to see children and grandchildren in France we have not seen for two years. I’m sure there are many in the same situation. So, in the meantime, we hold our optimism and perspective in equal parts.

 

[Former member 91017]

I don't think that anyone should stop dreaming/planning for later spring.... but make sure that your travel plans are *insured* according to COV cancellation needs.

I put all the insurance on my tickets -- paying for the "no restrictions" level of cancelation with options for either refunds or rebooking.

We shall see how it goes.

 

[dick bird]

If adopted and implemented, this would put an end to any Camino plans of those are not vaccinated and don’t live in the EU and from March 2022 onwards.

I think you mean 'or'. As I understand it, there is no EU ban as yet on fully vaccinated arrivals nor are they proposing to ban vaccinated arrivals. There will probably be more stringent test requirements though, which will add to the cost and inconvenience. For many countries, e.g. Australia, the question of being unvaccinated does not arise as you won't be allowed on a plane in the first place if you are not.

 

[La Rubia]

Read on and the text says:


Additionally, the same has revealed that clubs will be closed during the same period, from January 2 until January 9. Whereas, from December 1, only those who present a negative COVID-19 test result will be permitted to enter clubs, even if they have completed their vaccination process.

The COVID test taken before entering Portugal will not be valid during a longer stay, so expect to take more tests in between arrival and departure for accessing those places where it is required.

Tonight, in the Netherlands, we were strongly advised to take a test before visiting friends. It is not an obligation (yet) but regular testing combined with vaccination and wearing masks is quickly becoming the rule in Europe.

I think there's some confusion for people, in that they're referencing *clubs* here, not restaurants. A digital certificate will get you into a restaurant in Portugal, but they're raising the bar for clubs and bars (no pun intended) because those are environments that more readily foster behavior that would tend to facilitate the virus's spread (close quarters, alcohol, lowered inhibitions....) and requiring a negative test.

 

[Kathor1]

Portugal has updated their Visitportugal.com site on November 26th. This is what it currently says:

From December 1st

• Mandatory mask in closed spaces
• General recommendation for regular testing
• Mandatory digital vaccination certificate when accessing:

- Restaurants​

- Tourist establishments and local accommodation​

- Events with marked places​

- Gyms​

​

The third line says the same in Portuguese:

• Certificado digital de vacinação obrigatório no acesso a:

 

[Former member 91017]

... the question of being unvaccinated does not arise as you won't be allowed on a plane in the first place if you are not.

And thank God for that...
I know that some people legitimately cannot be vaccinated, and for that very same reason (I am thinking of very serious health conditions) they may wish for a camino.... but sometimes we need to be protected from ourselves and what our wishes might bring to others that they did not anticipate -- like a destructive variant that has mutated in a pool of unvaccinated people... and so on and so on.
And I mean this really as a compassionate and empathetic set of observations... that sometimes we need official policies that will allow us to get up and go on another day, instead of cashing in all our chips as well as those of our neighbours (writ both large and small).

 

[Kathor1]

Portugal has updated their Visitportugal.com site on November 26th. This is what it currently says:

From December 1st

• Mandatory digital vaccination certificate when accessing:

- Restaurants​

- Tourist establishments and local accommodation​

If this is correct and they don't change it, do I understand this correctly, it means no food and no bed for unvaccinated pilgrims other than food bought in shops, and this will start in four days' time???

 

[trecile]

If this is correct and they don't change it, do I understand this correctly, it means no food and no bed for unvaccinated pilgrims other than food bought in shops, and this will start in four days' time???

There shouldn't be any unvaccinated pilgrims.

 

[Kathor1]

There shouldn't be any unvaccinated pilgrims.

Well, there are unvaccinated pilgrims. In recent weeks, there have repeatedly posts from forum members, mainly from the USA if I remember correctly but not only from there, who asked about current restrictions in Spain and Portugal and they said that they are not vaccinated.

If everybody would stay at home who is not vaccinated it would not be necessary to introduce such restrictive rules.

 

[Kathor1]

travel from outside to EU countries in 2022 [...] Quote from press release: Member States should allow in only vaccinated, recovered or essential travellers. The list of countries in a sufficiently good epidemiological situation from where all travel should be possible should be discontinued.

If adopted and implemented, this would put an end to any Camino plans of those are not vaccinated and don’t live in the EU and from March 2022 onwards.

I think you mean 'or'.

I don't understand. From March 2022 onwards, unvaccinated people who do not live in an EU country will not be allowed to travel to Spain or Portugal for a Camino if the proposed Recommendation is adopted by the EU governments and if Spain and Portugal implement the Recommendation. Big change from current situation.

There is plenty of info on the European Commission's website about their new proposal for a Council Recommendation for travel from outside of the EU into the EU. The usual exemptions will apply: EU nationals, EU residents, their spouses, their minor kids etc etc. will be exempt.

I don't know the timeline for adoption. Perhaps during the next summit meeting on 16-17 December 2021, perhaps earlier. It will be in the news.

​

 

[trecile]

Well, there are unvaccinated pilgrims. In recent weeks, there have repeatedly posts from forum members, mainly from the USA if I remember correctly but not only from there, who asked about current restrictions in Spain and Portugal and they said that they are not vaccinated.

If everybody would stay at home who is not vaccinated it would not be necessary to introduce such restrictive rules.

Yes, I know that there have been some unvaccinated people who have inquired here about restrictions on unvaccinated individuals.
I agree with your statement that I bolded. I should have stressed the should in my statement - There should be no unvaccinated pilgrims.

 

[Kathor1]

There should be no unvaccinated pilgrims.

I agree with you, too . But the time for appeals for common sense and solidarity and respect for the health of others and the health services is over. These appeals have fallen on deaf ears. Within the majority of EU countries, everybody who wanted to get vaccinated had the chance to get vaccinated. Those who still choose not to get the jabs are now being told: OK. But from now on you stay away from this place and this event and this activity. No access for you anymore ....

 

[IngridF]

I don't understand? If the list of epidemiological safe countries is abolished next year, it means in practical terms that EU countries will not let enter everyone from countries like New Zealand, Australia and Canada as it has been the case for nearly two years or most of this time. They, too, will have to prove that they are vaccinated or recently recovered from illness. South Africa was never on the list and was never considered an epidemiological safe country. The focus will move away from where you come and move to whether you are vaccinated or not, and if you are not vaccinated you are not welcome. It makes sense to me.

BTW, did anyone else ban flights from South Africa so far, other than the U

Yes Canada, not just South Aftica, also countries neighbouring SA.

 

[WalkingJane]

Isn't this shooting down the accepted EU corona certificate? It seems Portugal is leaving the EU concept of the certificate...

This is really bad news for easing the travel possibilities both within and to/from Portugal, and maybe also the whole EU.

It will be very interesting to see how Brussels react to this.

Each country is responsible for protecting its citizens as it sees fit. We in the USA are in no position to tell any other nation how to handle this Pandemic.

 

[Mauicathie]

I don't understand? If the list of epidemiological safe countries is abolished next year, it means in practical terms that EU countries will not let enter everyone from countries like New Zealand, Australia and Canada as it has been the case for nearly two years or most of this time. They, too, will have to prove that they are vaccinated or recently recovered from illness. South Africa was never on the list and was never considered an epidemiological safe country. The focus will move away from where you come and move to whether you are vaccinated or not, and if you are not vaccinated you are not welcome. It makes sense to me.

BTW, did anyone else ban flights from South Africa so far, other than the UK?

The US will also be restricting flights from South Africa. The ban goes into effect on Monday 29 Nov 21

 

[dick bird]

So essentially, all arrivals in the EU will have to show they are vaccinated. I thought they had to do this anyway. Presumably they will also have to produce a certificate to show they have been tested immediately before and immediately after arrival. I thought this was the case already. Neither getting tested not getting vaccinated would be an issue for most of us so, unless the EU actually close their borders completely (and not just to countries in southern Africa), there does not seem to be any significant change, yet.

 

[Kathor1]

So essentially, all arrivals in the EU will have to show they are vaccinated

Yes, if that proposal gets approval by a majority of EU countries (first step) and if every EU country then draws up a national law that says so (second step). Since this is a public health emergency and it is about their national borders each EU country is free to decide what to do. This is often not understood which is why news article can be so misleading but people who actually travel from the outside into the EU have learnt to check the government website of the country where they will enter and follow that country‘s rules for entry.

If you travel on the 1st of December from Canada to Spain for example, Spain will require neither vaccination nor test. For a trip from Canada to Portugal on the same day, you must be vaccinated and tested before boarding. This is new. There are currently 18 other non-EU countries where the rules for entry into Spain and Portugal are the same as for those coming from Canada.

Portugal has announced that airlines will risk big fines in future. Also new. Prime Minister Costa said that they had been too lax in the past. “I wanted to leave an unequivocal message to airlines: It is profoundly irresponsible to carry people who are not tested and to disembark people who are not tested,” said Costa. Governments shifted the task of systematic health related entry control to the airport staff of far away countries …

 

[Bristle Boy]

Much talk can be made of vaccinations, testing, passes and the like. These are sticking plasters to, at best, slow a virus and protect, again at best, from serious illness.
Cloves of garlic and shields of invincibility only exist in Hollywood.
The pandemic has existed for two years now and every year it has been the same if not worse.
Time to go back to basics.

 

[dick bird]

I think we need to focus here on information, rather than opinion. Unfortunately, both the situation with Covid and government measures to deal with it keep changing. My suggestion is that whatever happens or doesn't happen in the future, it would be a very smart idea to make sure you are fully vaccinated before you try to get into Europe because either govt's will insist on it or for your own protection, if not both.

 

[Kathor1]

I think we need to focus here on information, rather than opinion. Unfortunately, both the situation with Covid and government measures to deal with it keep changing. My suggestion is that whatever happens or doesn't happen in the future, it would be a very smart idea to make sure you are fully vaccinated before you try to get into Europe because either govt's will insist on it or for your own protection, if not both.

You cast it as a suggestion but that is an opinion of course and not information.

 

[Ali@59]

I'm sure the vaccinated could in theory also transmit the virus to the unvaccinated, maybe testing made cheaper would be a better way to control the virus

 

[SabsP]

I'm sure the vaccinated could in theory also transmit the virus to the unvaccinated, maybe testing made cheaper would be a better way to control the virus

Maybe. I do not want to start another Coviddiscussion but here in the Lowlands labs are already overworked as it is.
Cheaper tests do not make any difference. A mentality shift does. Like sticking to government rules. Get vaccinated. Use common sense.
And people have to get rid of the daft idea that travel for leisure in these times is a universal right!

 

[dick bird]

You cast it as a suggestion but that is an opinion of course and not information.

True. But one that I think could be backed up by a cause and effect line of reasoning: if you don't get vaccinated, the EU won't let you in, plus your chances of contracting Covid-19 and passing it on are somewhat enhanced if you don't get vaccinated. I think there is a pretty solid consensus on both those statements.

 

[Bristle Boy]

You are, of course, correct @dick bird .
Best wishes to you "down under".
I speak as someone "double vaxxed" and a booster and 'flu inoculation booked. I am lucky.
The reality (or facts) of my life are much the same as last year.
It is very much an existence rather than a life and it is one I made a conscious choice to change last year.
Threads may change but the subject matter rarely does. The nettle needs to be grasped.

 

[dick bird]

You are, of course, correct @dick bird .
Best wishes to you "down under".
I speak as someone "double vaxxed" and a booster and 'flu inoculation booked. I am lucky.
The reality (or facts) of my life are much the same as last year.
It is very much an existence rather than a life.
Threads may change but the subject matter rarely does. The nettle needs to be grasped.

Hang on in there, and I can think of worse places to be stuck than North Somerset. Life, as they say, goes on. Who knows, we may bump into each other next year. And wear gloves. .

 

[Kathor1]

@andycohn, I just have to come back to your earlier comment and share this with you before I bail out of this thread . Compare Eportugal.gov.pt and Visitportugal.com about what they currently say concerning the new rules about access to restaurants. Both websites are official sites and Visitportugal is the go-to site for travellers to Portugal.

One says: A partir do dia 1 de dezembro será declarado o Estado de Calamidade para Portugal continental [...]. A apresentação do Certificado Digital Covid volta a ser obrigatória no acesso a restaurantes

The other one says: A partir do dia 1 de dezembro: Certificado digital de vacinação obrigatório no acesso a: Restaurantes

I left the link in the first quote on purpose. No wonder the media reporting is confused and confusing ...!

 

[Bristle Boy]

Hang on in there, and I can think of worse places to be stuck than North Somerset. Life, as they say, goes on. Who knows, we may bump into each other next year. And wear gloves. .

Bless you Dick.
I have been stymied for three years now. Anywhere would be nice. I have patience but it is stretched to the limit sometimes.
It isn't unreasonable to restrict the choices of those that choose (unless there is a very good medical reason) not to have a vaccine that is there to protect (not cure)....and in doing so impact so negatively on me and others like me and limit my choices detrimentally.
One minute it is Portugal..then it is France..then it is....and so the covid hokey cokey goes on.
At the moment you might as well hold back the tide with a sieve.

 

[VNwalking]

It is very much an existence rather than a life

"Just existing" is a state that has less to do with circumstances outside than with inner reactions to them. Whether we like the circumstances of life or not, it's still possible to be happy. I see it all the time around here, where many people have nothing and are living under a genuinely brutal government - but they're not depressed or feeling sorry for themselves. Their attitude is "It is as it is. Now what? What do I want to cultivate?" Those of us unhappily living cushy first world lives have a lot to learn from that. Life is a messy place, but happiness is possible. It just won't be delivered - we have to develop it. Patience, BB - if you want to change your mind, you can.

I have been stymied for three years now.

Two? Or have I lost a year in there someplace?

 

[Trishagale]

Australia has banned immediately all flights from South Africa, Namibia, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Lesotho, Eswatini, the Seychelles, Malawi, and Mozambique.

 

[Former member 49149]

You are, of course, correct @dick bird .
Best wishes to you "down under".
I speak as someone "double vaxxed" and a booster and 'flu inoculation booked. I am lucky.
The reality (or facts) of my life are much the same as last year.
It is very much an existence rather than a life and it is one I made a conscious choice to change last year.
Threads may change but the subject matter rarely does. The nettle needs to be grasped.

I am going to celebrate my birthday by closing my eyes and wishing a ray of light and hope to enter into your being, bringing you a glimpse of hope. Don't crumple up! Look up, see the stars!
I know this is on the open forum, and it is NOT about me: it is to truly send you something positive, to move on from this present moment. Go on! Do it!

 

[peregrina2000]

I resisted the urge to close this thread yesterday because I was hoping someone would provide more factual information about the situation in Portugal. With the notable exception of ONE forum member (you know who you are), these posts seem to be blissfully unaware of the topic at hand.

I understand that human conversational interactions are not linear, but I know that forum members know the rules. So I am going to grasp the nettle and close the thread.