Please, do not consider donativos as cheaper

[Pafayac]

"In 2014, Jean-Marc Lucien, who graciously received 700 to 800 pilgrims each year in St Privat d'Allier, was sued for unfair competition. The person concerned was acquitted in 2016 but was forced to close his cottage and move. "I was receiving threats and my car's tires were constantly punctured," explains the host today."

Article in french:

"Je recevais continuellement des menaces" : sur les chemins de Saint-Jacques-de-Compostelle, la dure vie des propriétaires de "donativos"

Sur les chemins de Saint-Jacques-de-Compostelle, certains hébergements proposent le gîte et le couvert sur la base d’une libre participation financière. Mais certaines de ces structures, accusées de faire de l’ombre à...

www.ladepeche.fr

This is a reason more to be generous in donativos, otherwise they will be considered as unfair competitors. However, their costs are not lower than the others. The only difference is that the price is not fixed: poor pilgrims can be welcomed there as richer ones.
But the system can survive only if those who have more means give more in order to compensate the others.

 

[Grousedoctor]

Generosity is one of those qualities many of us can practice as we walk the Camino. What a shame it would be to loose any donotivo because those of us who can afford to give decide here’s a chance for a “free lunch.”
My guess is that we’ll see more donotivo-type albergues setting a price for accommodations and food like Casa da Fernanda has. For those who do need some assistance, how nice it is to have a donotivo to help them along The Way.

 

[C clearly]

I support the concept of donativos and think that the laws and regulations should be able to include them as an option. There will always be complainers, sometimes with reason and other times without!

Simply donating more will not help the particular problem described. Those who are afraid of the competition will be even angrier, because the donativo owner is doing better and is still not subject to the regulations around commercial establishments. Nevertheless, I think that users of the donativos should be generous for other reasons. This article did not help much because it referred to the lodging being "free."

 

[naplesdon]

At San Anton, it was quite disappointing to hear someone drops a few coins in the donativo box. When Ovidio came around to collect the donations to buy our supplies, we would be elated when he showed us a few 20's and 50's. Personally, I think the minimum donation anyone should consider if there is are two meals involved is 20 euros. I never saw that at Canfranc Pueblo.

 

[Vacajoe]

Personally, I think the minimum donation anyone should consider if there is are two meals involved is 20 euros. I never saw that at Canfranc Pueblo.

Having served at Canfranc Pueblo twice, I am happy to save that I have! Thank goodness for those pilgrims who see the good that donativos offer and are willingly to support them.

 

[J Willhaus]

Usually the community has rules about what the donativo can/should be doing. For example, some communities don't have breakfast or supper due to community wishes that pilgrims spend their money in town. It's a balance for the community for the non-private donativos sponsored by parochial, amigos, or municipality. I don't know much about the private ones, but I can see where they may be scrutinized more closely by private businesses.

 

[Rex]

The costs of some of the old monastery/convent donativos are much higher than we know (but having been a trustee of a monastery, I do know!) And since I "know", a combination of gratitude and guilt often result in my donation being similar to what I would pay a small hotel. I understand that donativos can/will help out Pilgrims who don't have the means (a sliding scale, if you will), but I am rather abrupt at correcting pilgrims who refer to it as "free". Note: many monastic orders welcome strangers as a part of their rules, but it is rarely, if ever, stated that such hospitality is "free".
Buen Camino

 

[obinjatoo]

This is the reason I'd live to just sleep outside. I've had terrible experiences with private albergues. I often felt bullied and pushed around by grumpy owners. I'll stay at a donativo well before giving my money away to private enterprise. And I will donate generously.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Be careful not to confuse the sometimes virulent hostility in France towards anything even marginally related to the Church with the generally less hostile situations in Spain.

 

[CWBuff]

This is the reason I'd live to just sleep outside. I've had terrible experiences with private albergues. I often felt bullied and pushed around by grumpy owners. I'll stay at a donativo well before giving my money away to private enterprise. And I will donate generously.

One - I do applaud your willingness to donate generously at donativos. If anything this thread puncuates, once more, that the need for generous donations is much greater than some folks may thnk (and unfortunately, in some cases - care)
That said - I am also sad that you had such bad experiences in private albergues as to cause you to dismiss all of them outright.
I pretty much stayed in privates through most of my Camino; to be fair I'd say 99% (due in no small part to the fact that I started pushing my belongings by transfer company). only 3 come to my mind where I would not stay again because of the owners (grumpy or not, bullies or not). But then I also had WONDERFUL hosts (Arturo at San Miguel in Hospital d'Orbido and Christina at Albergue La Apalgateria in Villafranca Montes des Oca come to mind almost immediately)
Not all people are "bad" just some....

 

[ScouseKeith]

At San Anton, it was quite disappointing to hear someone drops a few coins in the donativo box. When Ovidio came around to collect the donations to buy our supplies, we would be elated when he showed us a few 20's and 50's. Personally, I think the minimum donation anyone should consider if there is are two meals involved is 20 euros. I never saw that at Canfranc Pueblo.

I’ve used donativo albergues quite a few times, more through availability but I’ve never left less than 20 euros for meal and board, but unfortunately I’ve seen so many pilgrims throwing a handful of loose change into the box, it’s so embarrassing after the hosts have worked so hard to provide a clean albergue and hearty meals.
In Estella the albergue Anfas is run by Down’s syndrome adults and the few volunteer staff. They don’t receive government support they purely survive on the income from pilgrims. In 2017 I was late arriving about 3pm after a long really hot day’s walking and when I checked in they brought me iced cold warter and allowed me to cool down. I was talking to patron who is the manager and he explained the whole background of the Anfas and how they survived so I took it upon myself to make sure every pilgrim staying there that night was aware of it, I even wrote in the comments book and asked everyone to give whatever they could to help raise additional funds. Just after 11pm the patron came looking for me all excited, during the past 8hrs pilgrims had donated just under 500 euros additional funds to help Anfas, I was so pleased for them I drew up a poster coming from a pilgrim to all pilgrims to follow with a short message outlining how they could help support a worthy charity that offers a great experience and lovely and clean.
The patron asked me for my email address to keep in touch and for weeks that followed even on the quieter days raised anything from 150 to 600 euros each day.
I went back and stayed in 2019 at Anfas and someone had drawn up another poster with the same message raising money.
Moral of this is, there are always true pilgrims willing to share the less fortunate.
Thank you to every pilgrim that has stayed and donated extra at the Anfas Albergue.

 

[J Willhaus]

I’ve used donativo albergues quite a few times, more through availability but I’ve never left less than 20 euros for meal and board, but unfortunately I’ve seen so many pilgrims throwing a handful of loose change into the box, it’s so embarrassing after the hosts have worked so hard to provide a clean albergue and hearty meals.
In Estella the albergue Anfas is run by Down’s syndrome adults and the few volunteer staff. They don’t receive government support they purely survive on the income from pilgrims. In 2017 I was late arriving about 3pm after a long really hot day’s walking and when I checked in they brought me iced cold warter and allowed me to cool down. I was talking to patron who is the manager and he explained the whole background of the Anfas and how they survived so I took it upon myself to make sure every pilgrim staying there that night was aware of it, I even wrote in the comments book and asked everyone to give whatever they could to help raise additional funds. Just after 11pm the patron came looking for me all excited, during the past 8hrs pilgrims had donated just under 500 euros additional funds to help Anfas, I was so pleased for them I drew up a poster coming from a pilgrim to all pilgrims to follow with a short message outlining how they could help support a worthy charity that offers a great experience and lovely and clean.
The patron asked me for my email address to keep in touch and for weeks that followed even on the quieter days raised anything from 150 to 600 euros each day.
I went back and stayed in 2019 at Anfas and someone had drawn up another poster with the same message raising money.
Moral of this is, there are always true pilgrims willing to share the less fortunate.
Thank you to every pilgrim that has stayed and donated extra at the Anfas Albergue.

We volunteered at San Miguel in Estella in 2019 and the Anfas manager was also helpful and kind. He took pilgrims when we were full and he patiently spoke with Phil for about an hour when neither understood the other's language. He gifted us pilgrim shells made by the people who the Anfas albergue benefits. Great place.

 

[bks]

Be careful not to confuse the sometimes virulent hostility in France towards anything even marginally related to the Church with the generally less hostile situations in Spain.

I walked the 900 km. Voie-de-Vezelay, in France, in June of this year and the hospitality was superb!! I have nothing but great things to say about my hosts and the food they prepared for me along this Way!!
Previously I walked the entire Arles as well as the Le Puy Caminos and once again I can state that the hospitality was excellent.
In France I believe that at a donativo the minimum donation should be $25. Euros in order to help the hosts cover their costs A little more should be added to that to assist the hosts with their unexpected costs.

 

[JabbaPapa]

I walked the 900 km. Voie-de-Vezelay, in France, in June of this year and the hospitality was superb!! I have nothing but great things to say about my hosts and the food they prepared for me along this Way!!
Previously I walked the entire Arles as well as the Le Puy Caminos and once again I can state that the hospitality was excellent.

I meant to suggest not any hostility from those who run these establishments, but hostility against them - - very many donativos or even free places in France that were attached to parish churches have been forcibly shut down over the decades.

 

[YMMV]

I’ve used donativo albergues quite a few times, more through availability but I’ve never left less than 20 euros for meal and board, but unfortunately I’ve seen so many pilgrims throwing a handful of loose change into the box, it’s so embarrassing after the hosts have worked so hard to provide a clean albergue and hearty meals.
In Estella the albergue Anfas is run by Down’s syndrome adults and the few volunteer staff. They don’t receive government support they purely survive on the income from pilgrims. In 2017 I was late arriving about 3pm after a long really hot day’s walking and when I checked in they brought me iced cold warter and allowed me to cool down. I was talking to patron who is the manager and he explained the whole background of the Anfas and how they survived so I took it upon myself to make sure every pilgrim staying there that night was aware of it, I even wrote in the comments book and asked everyone to give whatever they could to help raise additional funds. Just after 11pm the patron came looking for me all excited, during the past 8hrs pilgrims had donated just under 500 euros additional funds to help Anfas, I was so pleased for them I drew up a poster coming from a pilgrim to all pilgrims to follow with a short message outlining how they could help support a worthy charity that offers a great experience and lovely and clean.
The patron asked me for my email address to keep in touch and for weeks that followed even on the quieter days raised anything from 150 to 600 euros each day.
I went back and stayed in 2019 at Anfas and someone had drawn up another poster with the same message raising money.
Moral of this is, there are always true pilgrims willing to share the less fortunate.
Thank you to every pilgrim that has stayed and donated extra at the Anfas Albergue.

Thank you for this wonderful info. I now plan to stay here on my pilgrimage through Estella this September.

 

[ScouseKeith]

Thank you for this wonderful info. I now plan to stay here on my pilgrimage through Estella this September.

That’s great support YMMV I know they’ll appreciate it and make you feel welcome,

 

[williamlittig]

"In 2014, Jean-Marc Lucien, who graciously received 700 to 800 pilgrims each year in St Privat d'Allier, was sued for unfair competition. The person concerned was acquitted in 2016 but was forced to close his cottage and move. "I was receiving threats and my car's tires were constantly punctured," explains the host today."

Article in french:

"Je recevais continuellement des menaces" : sur les chemins de Saint-Jacques-de-Compostelle, la dure vie des propriétaires de "donativos"

Sur les chemins de Saint-Jacques-de-Compostelle, certains hébergements proposent le gîte et le couvert sur la base d’une libre participation financière. Mais certaines de ces structures, accusées de faire de l’ombre à...

www.ladepeche.fr

This is a reason more to be generous in donativos, otherwise they will be considered as unfair competitors. However, their costs are not lower than the others. The only difference is that the price is not fixed: poor pilgrims can be welcomed there as richer ones.
But the system can survive only if those who have more means give more in order to compensate the others.

Pilgrims at donativo albergues and truly a part of a community. Each should pull their weight, financially and physically , helping where they can, clean and find pride in their place. Pull more than your weight you're on the Way.

 

[Barbara]

Be careful not to confuse the sometimes virulent hostility in France towards anything even marginally related to the Church with the generally less hostile situations in Spain.

I think the French hostility to the clergy came before the Spanish history of hostility. I e. French Revolution versus Spanish civil war. In both countries it seems to have subsided somewhat.
I do like donativos in both countries, and I like even more family hospitality, which is more a french thing. It's found on all the routes where pilgrim housing is limited, and it's usually accessed either by the local Saint James's association or the parish. It's quite often difficult to leave money, so I will usually ask the kind person who has housed and fed me to give it to their favourite charity if they won't take my money. If you use this network, and it's possible for you, please "pay it forward" by helping another pilgrim. Oh, and send them a postcard from Santiago.

 

[bks]

I meant to suggest not any hostility from those who run these establishments, but hostility against them - - very many donativos or even free places in France that were attached to parish churches have been forcibly shut down over the decades.

Sorry for the misunderstanding!!

 

[bullingtonce]

"In 2014, Jean-Marc Lucien, who graciously received 700 to 800 pilgrims each year in St Privat d'Allier, was sued for unfair competition. The person concerned was acquitted in 2016 but was forced to close his cottage and move. "I was receiving threats and my car's tires were constantly punctured," explains the host today."

Article in french:

"Je recevais continuellement des menaces" : sur les chemins de Saint-Jacques-de-Compostelle, la dure vie des propriétaires de "donativos"

Sur les chemins de Saint-Jacques-de-Compostelle, certains hébergements proposent le gîte et le couvert sur la base d’une libre participation financière. Mais certaines de ces structures, accusées de faire de l’ombre à...

www.ladepeche.fr

This is a reason more to be generous in donativos, otherwise they will be considered as unfair competitors. However, their costs are not lower than the others. The only difference is that the price is not fixed: poor pilgrims can be welcomed there as richer ones.
But the system can survive only if those who have more means give more in order to compensate the others.

Sadly, there will always be cheapskates, with many of them being well off. The world we live in. Therefore, for those willing to give, perhaps consider a donation not for that night but for a true donation, as one would make to a charity or non-profit organization. Your kids will get an adequate estate inheritance; they do not need to get all of it. If the means exist, a $100 donation or even higher, would go a long ways toward making up for the skinflints and scrooges that exist and, for those accounting/financial types like me, it can be a tax write off. After all, one does not do a Camino every year for goodness sakes and many people spend a decent amount on flights.
Anyway, a thought.
Chuck

 

[alhartman]

This article broke a piece of my heart. I stayed there in 2006 as my first stop out of LePuy. The couple had just opened the gite. Both Parisiennes and met each other on an earlier Frances and decided to quit their jobs and open a gite. Great communal meal and wonderful fellowship--won over my heart for the French routes. Jean-Marc and his wife graciously translated much of the French to English for the 8 or so at dinner were French. He was very taken with the donativo albergues in Spain and wanted to bring the same spirit to the via Podiensis. Being new to France, I just eyeballed the average demi-pension from MiamMiam and rounded up the the nearest eu5.

It is now Accueil Pelerins l'Abri du Jacquet so the location continues under new ownership.

Rant: I have never been a fan of donativo as a business model. It is a wonderful spiritual model though. I love the generosity and optimism and will continue using donativo when I can. And continue donating at slightly above the going private albergue rates. And continue reminding fellow pilgrims that it is not 'free'.
And giving eu20-50 extra when finances permit.

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