Peregrinos vs. Cheap Tourists

[MendiWalker]

For a long time this question has been going round and round in my head.

I´ve seen some post which the poster was definitely a peregrino and others where the poster was definitely a cheap tourist. Yet others who were a mix of both.

The question is - Do you consider yourself a peregrino or a cheap tourist? And why so.

Thanks for your replies and please do not judge others for their reply.

Ondo Ibili !

 

[Deleted member 36903]

For a long time this question has been going round and round in my head.

I´ve seen some post which the poster was definitely a peregrino and others where the poster was definitely a cheap tourist. Yet others who were a mix of both.

The question is - Do you consider yourself a peregrino or a cheap tourist? And why so.

Thanks for your replies and please do not judge others for their reply.

Ondo Ibili !

Peregrino definitely. But being able to travel to Spain from UK and be away from home for 5 weeks requires funds that are not available to everyone, therefore I am a privileged peregrino certainly.

 

[Tincatinker]

Me? I'm just a cheap tourist. I only walk the Camino because it is there to be walked. I walk it, like my antecessors did, to get to the end of the world and lay down my earthly burdens. I pick a little litter, mop the odd flooded bathroom, clean up the kitchen in the cold light of dawn, pay my donativo where I am not charged a fee, and offer thanks where they are due. I try to spend my limited money in the local economy rather than into global businesses. (Easy on the Caminos.)

I don't feel I can claim Peregrino status. I am not walking to the bones of St James. My gods are older. I will claim pilgrim-hood because I am walking in reverence and with purpose.

@MendiWalker , you ask a dangerous question. How come you didn't ask about expensive tourists? The ones who pour thousands of dollars into Galicia's economy and scarcely trouble the Way until they jostle for the space in the Cathedral to watch the Botafumeiro swing (having paid for the spectacle). I truly believe there are as many 'tourists' who find themselves pilgrims as their sore feet stand on those sacred stones as there are Pereginos who stand bewildered, in a big stone building full of noise and smoke, not seeing what they were looking for.

Sorry amigo. I answered your question in my second sentence. Then I started arguing.

Buen Camino (nice cheap trip)

 

[MendiWalker]

@MendiWalker , you ask a dangerous question. How come you didn't ask about expensive tourists?

The tourigrinos! ( I love them) That´s a future thread.

Ondo Ibili !

 

[SeaHorse]

One crazy peregrina: there are much cheaper and faster ways how to visit exactly the same places for sightseeing. And I mean all along the Camino to Finisterre, not just Santiago. Maybe some day I;ll do also that.

 

[Former member 42123]

Me? I'm just a cheap tourist. I only walk the Camino because it is there to be walked. I walk it, like my antecessors did, to get to the end of the world and lay down my earthly burdens. I pick a little litter, mop the odd flooded bathroom, clean up the kitchen in the cold light of dawn, pay my donativo where I am not charged a fee, and offer thanks where they are due. I try to spend my limited money in the local economy rather than into global businesses. (Easy on the Caminos.)

I don't feel I can claim Peregrino status. I am not walking to the bones of St James. My gods are older. I will claim pilgrim-hood because I am walking in reverence and with purpose.

@MendiWalker , you ask a dangerous question. How come you didn't ask about expensive tourists? The ones who pour thousands of dollars into Galicia's economy and scarcely trouble the Way until they jostle for the space in the Cathedral to watch the Botafumeiro swing (having paid for the spectacle). I truly believe there are as many 'tourists' who find themselves pilgrims as their sore feet stand on those sacred stones as there are Pereginos who stand bewildered, in a big stone building full of noise and smoke, not seeing what they were looking for.

Sorry amigo. I answered your question in my second sentence. Then I started arguing.

Buen Camino (nice cheap trip)

Love this reply.Go to top of class.

 

[MendiWalker]

Love this reply.Go to top of class.

And your reply is ?

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Cheap, but respectful and quiet tourist. The Camino is my annual cleanse, therapy, weightloss boot camp. Where else could I do all that for 3 weeks a year on so little money? It's that or scuba diving at 10 times the cost per day. But it's also a bit of a pilgrimage because it is walking on Spanish soil, where my mother was from, but certainly not walking to visit anyone's bones. I visit my soul, my ancestry, its history.

 

[fraluchi]

I guess that I am a combination of both. It all depends upon my capability of endurance under particular weather and my physical conditions. "Rest days" can be a bliss when sleeping peacefully between sheets, next to a private bathroom. I never asked myself the question , really.

 

[ShellsG]

Do they have to mutually exclusive?? Being a cheap tourist or a pilgrim? I am finding it anything but cheap to be honest and am looking forward to being a tourist at some points but I am also excited about the hopes and dreams that may be realized along the way, the cleansing of the mind, the lift of my spirits as I complete each small challenge along the way. I am not Catholic, the actual remains of St. James do not attract me .... so do I not qualify as a pilgrim? I have been to Santiago, I have been awe struck by the church ... now I hope to be awestruck by my perseverance and persistence at moving forward day after day.

 

[mikevasey]

Tourist and Pilgrim, I aim for the latter in attitude when walking the camino but have my moments of self interest and expectation which make me a judger of experiences , places and people, I rather let it go and be a pilgrim its less tiring.

 

[rappahannock_rev]

A false dichotomy, I think.

 

[MendiWalker]

A false dichotomy, I think.

Care to explain?

Ondo Ibili !

 

[BethC]

I like very much that there is a spiritual component to the Caminos - wrapped up with many other good things such as history, religious traditions, the beauty of the land, art, stunningly beautiful architecture, and regional cultures different from my own. To me, the spirituality comes from the hearts and minds of those who walk it and those who have chosen to tend it and support it. I don't know what that makes me.

 

[Former member 42123]

And your reply is ?

My reply is that I could be called a mixture of both.I first walked the Camino after many years of waiting,to answer a call I did not understand,but felt it to be spiritual.I,like all addicts,wanted more of what the Camino gave me.It is a journey I would like to take yearly,but as an old age pensioner am unable to do so.That would seem to rule me out as a "tourismo" .In reality I consider myself a"walker of the way" who cares not how or why others walk,who believes his God cares not either but that they walk.

 

[Walid Medawar]

It's tricky and Lovely Question. And I do believe it depend on your start point and end Point . Our Start Point of the camino which can be for millions of reasons , can sometime identify us as " Cheap Tourists " who would love to travel around a country without paying much , but yet , if they were able to witness at the end a significant personal change , they do become a Pilgrim . So In Short " You Never start a Pilgrim , You Start as a pilgrim project and at the end you might claim the title "

 

[MendiWalker]

You Start as a pilgrim project and at the end you might claim the title "

And have you been able to?

Ondo Ibili !

 

[Walid Medawar]

And have you been able to?

Yes I did since it was a life challenge more than cities and villages to watch and cross . What about you ?

 

[MendiWalker]

Yes I did since it was a life challenge more than cities and villages to watch and cross . What about you ?

As I started this thread I´ll post mine at the end.

Ondo Ibili !

 

[Walid Medawar]

As I started this thread I´ll post mine at the end.

hehehe That a Lovely way to keep us anxious will be glad to read your view , and meanwhile , i will be happy to hear your comment on my thread https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...amino-turn-up-to-be-like-a-health-drug.35963/

 

[Waka]

This thread posses a very interesting point, I have done many pilgrimages to Italy which are not cheap, I have also done pilgrimages to Walsingham (UK) which is reasonably priced. On these journeys I have considered myself a pilgrim, but certainly not done it like pilgrims of old.

I start my camino in a couple of weeks time, I'd would like to think that this pilgrimage (if that's what it is) gets me closer to the pilgrims of the past, who had nothing and wanted nothing. We all know that doing the pilgrimage of old, certainly in my case is not going to happen. But I consider myself a pilgrim as apposed to a cheap tourist, although I could be very wrong.

Maybe the pilgrimages to Italy and the UK could be considered as being a tourist rather than a pilgrim because of the cost involved.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the cost of a journey is irrelevant, it's what's in the heart and mind that counts. If you think you're a tourist (cheap or expensive) then go for it, on the other hand if you think you are a pilgrim irrespective of your beliefs then go for that as well.

Buen Camino to all

 

[MendiWalker]

I start my camino in a couple of weeks timel

Enjoy.

Ondo Ibili !

 

[LesBrass]

Cheap tourist I think?

My first walk was to prove to myself that I was alive... it was a walk to be glad to be alive after fearing the worst with ill health. It became more than a cheap tourist thing partway through and by the end I wasn't sure what it was.

It was certainly addicitive as I walked again in April and now I'm planning to walk again next year... whatever the camino is... can I have some more please

 

[Mike Savage]

For a long time this question has been going round and round in my head.

I´ve seen some post which the poster was definitely a peregrino and others where the poster was definitely a cheap tourist. Yet others who were a mix of both.

The question is - Do you consider yourself a peregrino or a cheap tourist? And why so.

Thanks for your replies and please do not judge others for their reply.

Ondo Ibili !

Pilgrim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrim
Wikipedia
A pilgrim (from the Latin peregrinus) is a traveler (literally one who has come from afar) who is on a journey to a holy place. Typically, this is a physical journey (often on foot) to some place of special significance to the adherent of a particular religious belief system.

I am a pilgrim and for me it is about the journey. I feel the need to get away from the "normal" routine and distractions, find/make more time for introspection and prayer on a deeper level than I have been able to manage with the distractions of "normal" life and enjoy meeting new friends and seeing different cultures.

Mike

 

[ShellsG]

As I started this thread I´ll post mine at the end.

Ondo Ibili !

And what will you consider the end ...

 

[Mike Savage]

Seeing the light for a moment while on this cheap holiday, by chance and the end reverting to our old ways does not make us pilgrims. And it's not about points to get in heaven, that is quite insulting in my opinion.

So, non catholics and people walking in sections don't qualify as.... Nnnnooooo, not going there

Anemone, I don't know if you were directing this toward me or not but I see no mention or inference in my statement or the Wikipedia definition of any particular religion.

 

[mikevasey]

It may be a holiday, but even the older meaning in that word has a religious significance. I'm not a Christian, Jew or Muslim so I am not in this trying to score brownie points with a monotheistic creator and many of the religious people I have met aren't either. Maybe it is a holiday but the modern usuage of that word is like most words in use, original meanings have been forgotten or buried it doesn't mean that the human experience under the surface has changed, it just needs a little more attention to the real significance of our actions.

 

[ShellsG]

Seriously, I just like Northern Spain, I like eating and I like walking. I like meeting new people and seeing new things .... I like learning about myself and the world around me.

 

[C clearly]

Do they have to mutually exclusive?? Being a cheap tourist or a pilgrim?

I resist the pigeon-holing - the dichotomy. Without the cheapness, I wouldn't be doing it more than once. However, without "something else" I wouldn't be doing it more than once, either. It is both.

 

[Mike Savage]

@Mike Savage , why/how would a non Catholic walk to Santiago,with the mindset described in you wiki definition and still call it a pilgrimage, if that is the correct definition?

The Wiki definition was "A Pilgrim is a traveler who is on a journey to a holy place." I believe that some (and maybe many) people that are not Catholic can believe/recognize Santiago De Compostela as a holy place and still be truly on a pilgrimage as a "traveler who is on a journey to a holy place."

I am a Catholic and I do recognize and revere holy sites of many other religions and do believe I could travel to a holy site, established by another religion, and still be on a pilgrimage. Maybe this is just me . . .

Thank you for listening. I know it is difficult sometimes to have serious discussions when you cannot actually see the other person and hear the tone of the conversation.

 

[Deleted member 36903]

I am an ecumenical Anglican and walked the Camino not because of the relics of St James at the end in SDC but because I believe the Way is sanctified by the thousands of pilgrims who have gone before me and who endured privation, emotional and geographical dislocation while learning to rejoice in meeting people who reminded them what it is to recognise our connectedness and reliance on our fellow human beings. I walked because I felt the call to do so which I could not put into words - and I am not a deeply religious person - and learned along the Camino that I was walking to give thanks for the love I shared with my recently deceased partner. The silence (apart from the welcome bird song), the stretches of solitude and the beautiful landscapes were both solace and inspiration. My fellow pilgrims reminded that there is still joy to be shared despite personal sorrow.

 

[Dutch]

As I started this thread I´ll post mine at the end.

Ondo Ibili !

Honestly, you should have started your thread with your view.

Too easy like this.

 

[Dutch]

HIAWOL - Hiking is a way of life. Tourism is just a goddamn hobby.


I am a hiker. I am a pilgrim. I am a tourist.

Great said! Could not agree more.

 

[Kanga]

@Anemone del Camino it is easy to answer your question. St James was one of the Twelve Apostles. That is a sufficient reason for non-Catholics to make a pilgrimage to his burial site. Or even, as most of us believe, to a site that honours him.

 

[esmess]

I think I was a cheap tourist when I walked the Camino, although I had hopes for spiritual insights and life changing experiences. I loved the lady I met on several stops who was always laughing and drinking wine - a glass, she said, made the journey harder, but a whole bottle made it almost unconscious and therefore easier she said, laughing as she always was.
I realised that she had "stuff" she was dealing with but not talking about, but I loved her attitude, as "wrong" as it may have been! And she made me laugh too - and I really needed to!
I experienced a lot of emotional turmoil on the walk, and after I came home too. I thought I'd "failed". I hadn't found the answers I wanted to find.
But after it had all settled down inside of me, I realised that in a funny kind of way I did receive what I was looking for because I have changed. The same things that used to make me crazy in my life don't make me crazy any more. I realised I can do it! I can live this life with all of its baggage. I can even love it. Even if, like wine lady, I'm not doing it how I perceive that one is supposed to do it, I can just keep putting one foot in front of the other and appreciate what's good about this whole journey - not just the Camino.
So maybe I ended up to be a pilgrim in a way... (-:
A cheap tourist kind of pilgrim!

 

[Dutch]

"Cheap tourist" makes it sound so dirty and meaningless.

If long distance walkers are cheap tourists, than what does that make the last 100km walkers?

 

[Kathor1]

St James was one of the Twelve Apostles. That is a sufficient reason for non-Catholics to make a pilgrimage to his burial site. Or even, as most of us believe, to a site that honours him. That the Catholic Church considers him a saint is secondary.

It would perhaps be interesting to explore why the Christian churches - it's not only the Catholic church, actually - encourage the kind of walking pilgrimage seen today that is so characteristic for the "Caminos" but that's probably best done in a different thread.

 

[Kathor1]

For a long time this question has been going round and round in my head.
I´ve seen some post which the poster was definitely a peregrino and others where the poster was definitely a cheap tourist. Yet others who were a mix of both.
The question is - Do you consider yourself a peregrino or a cheap tourist? And why so.

You did not distinguish between peregrino and tourist in your opening question but between peregrino and cheap tourist. I understand this to mean that you want to address the issue of people who make use of the specific camino infrastructure in Spain and its many advantages and for whom saving money during the walk is an important factor but who don't walk with the right spirit and pilgrim attitude.

It would be also interesting to know how people living in the region view these walkers. In my limited experience they don't care one bit how you view yourself. If you are clad in standard gear and walk in the most obvious direction, i.e. South or West, they will label you as a pilgrim/pélèrin/peregrino full-stop. In general, they are not interested in one's soul searching and one's motives for walking. In this context, I'd love to quote from a longer article on the modern camino phenomenon which contains a passage on "phony/false" and "true" pilgrims, their attitudes to cost and their economic impact and how they are viewed from the outside. I hope you don't mind and find it thought-provoking.

 

[Kathor1]

I'd love to quote from a longer article on the modern camino phenomenon which contains a passage on "phony/false" and "true" pilgrims, their attitudes to cost and their economic impact and how they are viewed from the outside. I hope you don't mind and find it thought-provoking.

So here it is. I like the last paragraph .

It's now okay for real pilgrims to own Kevlar hiking socks worth €190, an ultra-light sleeping bag for €500, Gore-Tex shoes worth €250 or a geo-caching GPS device for €400. But they often refuse to buy a "café con leche" if it costs the exorbitant sum of €2.20. Pilgrims love yakking about rip-offs along the Way.

In 2013, the average pilgrim on the Way of St. James spent €30 per day with total revenues of businesses along the route adding up to €200 million. [...]. But revenues along the Camino de Santiago are growing, and that is because of the "phony" pilgrims.

Phony pilgrims sleep in guesthouses or hotels and avoid the three-course "pilgrim menu" on offer along the entire journey for €9 to €12, including wine. False pilgrims steer clear of the hostels with their giant sleeping-bag halls housing up to 100 people. They hire taxis to drive their luggage ahead, stage-by-stage, all the way to Santiago. Most aggravating of all for real pilgrims is the fact that a 100 kilometer stroll is the minimum distance necessary to receive a certificate -- the same document received by those who walk the hundreds of kilometers from Saint-Jean [...].

Those living along the route, of course, wonder why the real pilgrims even care how the others get their luggage from point A to point B. And ask: Doesn't God prefer to help unemployed taxi drivers?

 

[MendiWalker]

What I'm interested in knowing is " how you see yourself - peregrino or cheap tourist" . I'm not asking anyone to judge others. Just how you see yourself. So far some have said peregrino other a mix no one has admitted being just a cheap tourist ( I think) and yet others have made comments which have nothing to do with the OP. Please stick to the OP. Other comments are worth another thread, thanks

Ondo Ibili!

 

[Dutch]

And there comes the most obvious questio and discussion again.......what or who is a real pilgrim.

A discussion that is useless, for everyone thinks that THEY and THEY alone are right when it comes to this topic.....as seen in similar threads.

 

[dougfitz]

So here it is.

Is this article online? If so, would you be able to provide a link, otherwise a reference to the source?

 

[Kathor1]

What I'm interested in knowing is " how you see yourself - peregrino or cheap tourist" . I'm not asking anyone to judge others. Just how you see yourself. So far some have said peregrino other a mix no one has admitted being just a cheap tourist ( I think) and yet others have made comments which have nothing to do with the OP. Please stick to the OP. Other comments are worth another thread, thanks

OK, I'll answer for myself and I hope you will forgive me that it's not the kind of answer you are looking for: it's a question that I do not ask myself anymore. The labels - religious pilgrim, spiritual-religious pilgrim, other pilgrim, hiker, cultural tourist, a mixture of any or all of these - seemed important at one time, now it isn't anymore. Why do I walk and why others, I asked myself at one time, in particular when I arrived in SJPdP and saw the mass of the people. My current answer is: we have the time and the money and it feels like a good thing to do.

 

[MendiWalker]

@Kathar1na

Thanks for your honest reply.

Ondo Ibili !

 

[dougfitz]

I rather like the United Nations World Tourist Organisation (UNTWO) definitions:

Tourist (or overnight visitor)
A visitor (domestic, inbound or outbound) is classified as a tourist (or overnight visitor), if his/her trip includes an overnight stay.

Visitor
A visitor is a traveller taking a trip to a main destination outside his/her usual environment, for less than a year, for any main purpose (business, leisure or other personal purpose) other than to be employed by a resident entity in the country or place visited. A visitor (domestic, inbound or outbound) is classified as a tourist (or overnight visitor), if his/her trip includes an overnight stay, or as a same-day visitor (or excursionist) otherwise.

​

This makes all of us who are not Spanish residents that have walked the Camino tourists. (I know some of you will bridle at this, but we do use the terms tourist or tourigrino as a pejorative here far to readily.)

As an Australian, I can assure you it is not a 'cheap' undertaking to walk any of the European pilgrimage paths, and I have relied on the albergue network to keep those costs down.

So I think, given the paucity of information about what the OP thinks what might qualify as 'cheap tourist', I probably qualify as one. Does that mean cheap tourists are not also pilgrims? Of course not! That is the false dichotomy in the question. We are all tourists, some of us 'cheap tourists' and perhaps not everyone is a pilgrim, but it is not a mutually exclusive option set.

Edit - added a clarification about not being a Spanish resident.

 

[Kanga]

I'm a cultural tourist who journeys with pleasure on foot along a holy road seeking wisdom, spiritual enlightenment, good health, friendship and knowledge. I think that just about covers everything.

Oh, and Pacharan.

 

[Marc S.]

I like your question and I am intrigued by your opining statement: 'some posts make it clear that the poster is definitely a pilgrim and some posts make clear that the poster is definitely a cheap tourist.' I am not judging your statement, but it seems you have some very clear definitions in your head of what is what. When a pilgrim is someone who is on a journey to a holy place, I may be considered a pilgrim as I like walking in the direction of Santiago. Considering myself to be a non practicing atheist, Santiago is not a holy place for me, and as I'd like to keep the term pilgrim reserved for people walking because of their christian believes, I do not see myself as a pilgrim. Let me conclude that I consider myself as someone who walks.

 

[BethC]

In addition, most of the world's major religions have promoted adherents doing pilgrimages to sites with a "carrot" at the end - a relic related to that religion. So many of the elements that make up walking them promote clarity and an expanded sense of strength and peace as a human being in the world that it's no wonder they're meaningful and important to many regardless of how one self-defines. I agree, it's a good topic for a new thread.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I avoid judging others, so I guess I will apply the same standard to myself. I don't see a difference...

 

[galliano]

What I'm interested in knowing is " how you see yourself - peregrino or cheap tourist" . I'm not asking anyone to judge others. Just how you see yourself. So far some have said peregrino other a mix no one has admitted being just a cheap tourist ( I think) and yet others have made comments which have nothing to do with the OP. Please stick to the OP. Other comments are worth another thread, thanks

Ondo Ibili!

I would really like to answer your question. but before I do I need you to explain to me what you mean with the frase "cheap tourist"

 

[grayland]

Several posts with remarks directed at others have been edited/deleted.

Please adhere to the forum rules concerning religious discussions.
Do not discuss specific religions or beliefs per our rules.

 

[Mike Savage]

I like your question and I am intrigued by your opining statement: 'some posts make it clear that the poster is definitely a pilgrim and some posts make clear that the poster is definitely a cheap tourist.' I am not judging your statement, but it seems you have some very clear definitions in your head of what is what. When a pilgrim is someone who is on a journey to a holy place, I may be considered a pilgrim as I like walking in the direction of Santiago. Considering myself to be a non practicing atheist, Santiago is not a holy place for me, and as I'd like to keep the term pilgrim reserved for people walking because of their christian believes, I do not see myself as a pilgrim. Let me conclude that I consider myself as someone who walks.

I think you have touched on a few points that help define what I myself think on this matter. I believe that being a pilgrim is something internal and can usually only be recognized by what you feel internally even if you only recognize it sometime afterward if ever. I also believe that even though a place is considered "holy" by others doesn't mean everyone believes it to be holy. I still believe it is the journey that matters. The destination, when on a journey, to me signifies mostly that the physical portion of this goal I have set out on has been accomplished and no more. The destination may hold other meaning for me but that destination can be arrived at by other means that will not take me though the same journey whether it is physical, mental, spiritual, etc.

 

[GT-Cfire]

I am a searcher.

I do not claim to be armed with a higher purpose. But I come from a country with a long tradition of pilgrimage and several hundred trails of its own.

Something life has taught me is that you get what you seek - it rarely comes looking for you. So answers and enlightenment must be on the road to Damascus, not in your armchair.

Which is why I plan to walk the Norte. A little discomfort must be good for the spirit, if not for the feet.

 

[Wokabaut_Meri]

I walked the Camino because I love to walk and because it was there to experience. It is what it is. Anything else, to me, is merely labelling - good weather/bad weather, rough trail/fair trail, carry pack/taxi pack, journey walker/destination walker, 800km/100km, pilgrim/tourist... For me it was the act of walking and everything else was a bonus. Call me a pilgrim, call me a tourist, it matters little to the actual experience and to call myself either would be to limit how I saw this all unfolding.

 

[EMILE M]

The tourigrinos! ( I love them) That´s a future thread.

Ondo Ibili !

It still costs money to fly to Europe (from the U.S. in my case) and basically pay your Way for 30 days, even if it's cheaper than staying in hotels. I know many people who wouldn't want to sleep in dorms in such close proximity of strangers. So yes, it's a cheap-er way to discover Spain at an up-close and personal level, but it still requires a certain level of fortitude and determination to walk 500 miles. Only a pilgrim would do this.

 

[sillydoll]

The minutes of the meeting held in Jaca in 1987 to re-establish the pilgrimage route to Santiago makes interesting reading. Those present at that meeting became the Spanish Federation of Friends on the Camino (Amigos).
Basically the discussions went like this:
"If 1000s of pilgrims come, where will they sleep? We don't have enough places for them all and not all pilgrims will be able to afford to stay in hotels."
"Perhaps we can establish shelters for those who can't find accommodation in hotels or pensions and for those who can't afford to spend many nights in hotels. We will look for school halls, parish houses etc. "
"Will they be charged?"
"No, we can make it donativo and they can give what they can afford."
" What's to stop tourists from wanting to stay in these donativo places? "
"The shelters must only be for real pilgrims, we can't have tourists staying in our donativo shelters."
"How will we know the difference between tourists and pilgrims?"
"We can devise a type of credencial - like those three guys in Estella used in in 1964 when they walked to Santiago. Pilgrims will have to have one of those."
"A walking pilgrim not travelling by bus or car will have to have a backpack."
(Don Elias Valina Sampedro, father of the modern Camino, of O Cebreiro parish, was put in charge of establishing refugios.)
"We must not compete with the established hospitality industry by taking business away from them. If there are lots of hotels, hostales and pensions in a large town then there is no need for more than one refugio in that town. The tourism offices must supply pilgrims with the names of all the places where they can stay, including rooms in private homes."

So, how does this relate to the subject of this thread: Peregrinos vs Cheap Tourist?
Many pilgrims today feel that they are entitled to a bed in an albergue but it is clear from the minutes that it was never intended that pilgrims should only stay in albergues.
On the contrary, pilgrims were expected to support the local hospitality industry. Only where there are no places for them to stay, or where a pilgrim can't afford to stay in the established accommodations, should they be accepted into the donativo refuges.
If this was put to the test, every pilgrim who can afford to stay in private accommodation, be it private albergues, habitaciones, fondas, hostales etc., should do so, thereby leaving the beds in the donativo refugios to those who can't afford hotels. Maybe this would alleviate the overcrowding of albergues and boost the local economy.

 

[grayland]

I just bookmarked Sil's post above to remind me of the origin of the albergue system.

The last paragraph is very much one that I have advocated in the past.

^^^ from Post by Sillydoll above^^

"...So, how does this relate to the subject of this thread: Peregrinos vs Cheap Tourist?
Many pilgrims today feel that they are entitled to a bed in an albergue but it is clear from the minutes that it was never intended that pilgrims should only stay in albergues.

On the contrary, pilgrims were expected to support the local hospitality industry. Only where there are no places for them to stay, or where a pilgrim can't afford to stay in the established accommodations, should they be accepted into the donativo refuges.

If this was put to the test, every pilgrim who can afford to stay in private accommodation, be it private albergues, habitaciones, fondas, hostales etc., should do so, thereby leaving the beds in the donativo refugios to those who can't afford hotels. Maybe this would alleviate the overcrowding of albergues and boost the local economy."

 

[fraluchi]

At the end of our "memories of a great road" (2008) we wrote "…where our walking was neither an act of devotion nor of piety, but it was every bit a spiritual experience." We walked our Camino as pilgrims, interspiced with "tourigrino" indulgences.?

 

[Dutch]

Well, some post may be gone and that is probably better, but i find it still very disappointing that the OP does not want to answer his own question.

 

[Marc S.]

Well, some post may be gone and that is probably better, but i find it still very disappointing that the OP does not want to answer his own question.

Just be patient. I am sure his answer is worth waiting for...

 

[Annette london]

For a long time this question has been going round and round in my head.

I´ve seen some post which the poster was definitely a peregrino and others where the poster was definitely a cheap tourist. Yet others who were a mix of both.

The question is - Do you consider yourself a peregrino or a cheap tourist? And why so.

Thanks for your replies and please do not judge others for their reply.

Ondo Ibili !

What a great question and I must say that all the answers have have been wonderful. No judgements about those who may be a bit of a walker and a bit of a pilgrim! The answers have cheered me up no end. I don't really know what I am! When we first walked the camino 10years ago I guess we started as walkers and ended as pilgrims. It was for me such a spiritual journey. All the other caminos we walked as walkers but certainly not as cheap tourists as following that first time we have always stayed in pensions. We have entered Santiago after a long journey about 5 times now and the emotion I feel each time is difficult to describe. Suffice to say that for the last hour or so of walking, I cry my eyes out with the joy of getting to Santiago. My husband felt that we would never feel again what we felt on our first Camino ---the excitement-- the adrenaline flowing and the sheer joy of walking the camino. We have just finished the CF this July and it was actually better the second time around. We decided at the last minute to walk the CF just to walk and not for any religious purpose and we never minded the solitude or the crowds, just took each day as it came. Like you, I often ask myself what is it about the camino that draws people back to it again and again? I was so happy to be home and yet, and yet I could have cheerfully walked out my front door and started it all over again!!so what am I? Who knows!

 

[CaptBuddy]

There was a post some months ago that listed the capacity of the albergues on the CF. I do not have the number at hand.
I've walked into Santiago twice: the first time with about 1200 peregrinos, and the second time with about 1500 peregrinos.

My point is, when I roughly calculated the number of albergues beds available one day out from Santiago, I quickly saw that many of the peregrinos must have used commercial tourist accommodations, on at least that one night. I think that if you spent the time figuring numbers of albergue beds vs. number of peregrinos, you would see that not everyone could possibly have stayed in an albergue every night. I know, there are seasons with more peregrinos than other seasons, but there are seasons for albergues as well. So I think it would average out.
I would not be surprised, based on my experience, if it was close to a 50/50 split: albergue vs. tourist accommodations.

My other point is, if anyone doesn't think I'm a pilgrim based on where I slept, I'm willing to kick you so hard in the shins you won't walk for a year.

Buen Camino.

 

[MendiWalker]

There was a post some months ago that listed the capacity of the albergues on the CF. I do not have the number at hand.
I've walked into Santiago twice: the first time with about 1200 peregrinos, and the second time with about 1500 peregrinos.

My point is, when I roughly calculated the number of albergues beds available one day out from Santiago, I quickly saw that many of the peregrinos must have used commercial tourist accommodations, on at least that one night. I think that if you spent the time figuring numbers of albergue beds vs. number of peregrinos, you would see that not everyone could possibly have stayed in an albergue every night. I know, there are seasons with more peregrinos than other seasons, but there are seasons for albergues as well. So I think it would average out.
I would not be surprised, based on my experience, if it was close to a 50/50 split: albergue vs. tourist accommodations.

My other point is, if anyone doesn't think I'm a pilgrim based on where I slept, I'm willing to kick you so hard in the shins you won't walk for a year.

Buen Camino.

Correct me if I´m mistaken but your reply to this thread is that you consider yourself a peregrino. Thank you.

Ondo Ibili

 

[CaptBuddy]

Correct me if I´m mistaken but your reply to this thread is that you consider yourself a peregrino. Thank you.

Ondo Ibili

Without reservation or doubt.

 

[Dutch]

Just be patient. I am sure his answer is worth waiting for...

Hmm, we'll see if patience really is bitter, but its fruits sweet

I dont kmow......

 

[Kanga]

Wonderful post @sillydoll and so timely! I too have bookmarked it. I think that anyone who spends time on this forum comes to realise that being a pilgrim is not about accommodation. Unfortunately, "out there" on the road, I've heard so many times the idea expressed that staying in dormitories and discomfort is some kind of prerequisite. "We've been naughty, last night we stayed in a hotel" is typical.

I shall take great pleasure in quoting from you next time that occurs.

I still like the albergues because of their communal aspects. For a lone female traveller it used to provide security being with a group of known people each night and it brought one into an instant community. I also liked the simplicity of walking up to an albergue without booking or having to make a decision about where to stay.

It is 4 years since I last walked the Camino Frances. It will be interesting to see how the increase in numbers and growth of private infrastructure has changed things.

 

[JulieandPeter]

Just another person walking along the way, taking one step at a time, one deep breath at a time; realizing with each moment that in spite of all of the labels that differentiate us, we are all ultimately travelers on the same path and contributing to this flow of humanity in our own unique way.

 

[wayfarer]

We are what we feel or think we are, other people's opinions of us are just that, their opinion or in some case's their judgment.

 

[gerardcarey]

My other point is, if anyone doesn't think I'm a pilgrim based on where I slept, I'm willing to kick you so hard in the shins you won't walk for a year.

Buen Camino.

Might I suggest a change of target for your fancy footwork.
The height of a set of buttocks would provide a larger target with a higher chance of a successful outcome and less chances of your missing, overbalancing and making a spectacle of yourself.
It would also ensure the forward and eventual downward projection of the target.
Imagine, if you will, the emotional satisfaction, especially if the ground surface is unstable, muddy or gravel based.
I would also note that practice makes perfect.

Buen Direction
Gerard

 

[Leah C. O'Leary]

what happened to the notion that "you have to walk your own Camino?"

 

[Kanga]

Walk your own Camino? Good gracious, wherever did that idea come from? No, no. These are the rules:

1. Levity in all forms is discouraged. This is a serious undertaking.
2. There is only one authentic path, and it is the Camino Frances.
3. There is only one starting place and it is St-Jean-Pied-de-Port.
4. There is only one finishing place and it is Santiago de Compostela.
5. You must walk the Brierley stages, preferably on your knees or alternatively in bare feet. This shows piety.
6. You must start each day 2 hours before the sun rises. Buddhist monks can do it, so can you.
7. You must only stay in donativo albergues. If no bed is available you obviously did not start walking early enough.
8. Your diet should be confined to simple, healthy food. Such as potato chips.
9. To avoid temptations of the flesh, only wash occasionally. This will protect you from sin.
10. Avoid at all cost spending money. A pilgrim is frugal.
11. Use the toilets in the bars. They are free (see No 10).
12. If you are enjoying the Camino, something is wrong. Review this list.

 

[MendiWalker]

Can we please keep on topic.

Thank you

 

[Icacos]

Can we please keep on topic.

Thank you

1. Levity in all forms is discouraged. This is a serious undertaking.

 

[Dutch]

Mendiwalker, maybe you should give an answer to your own question instead of playing headmaster

 

[galliano]

Walk your own Camino? Good gracious, wherever did that idea come from? No, no. These are the rules:

1. Levity in all forms is discouraged. This is a serious undertaking.
2. There is only one authentic path, and it is the Camino Frances.
3. There is only one starting place and it is St-Jean-Pied-de-Port.
4. There is only one finishing place and it is Santiago de Compostela.
5. You must walk the Brierley stages, preferably on your knees or alternatively in bare feet. This shows piety.
6. You must start each day 2 hours before the sun rises. Buddhist monks can do it, so can you.
7. You must only stay in donativo albergues. If no bed is available you obviously did not start walking early enough.
8. Your diet should be confined to simple, healthy food. Such as potato chips.
9. To avoid temptations of the flesh, only wash occasionally. This will protect you from sin.
10. Avoid at all cost spending money. A pilgrim is frugal.
11. Use the toilets in the bars. They are free (see No 10).
12. If you are enjoying the Camino, something is wrong. Review this list.

Love it

 

[ivar]

Will close this thread sine we have seen the various opinions on this, and the thread is going nowhere.