Peregrino arrested after traffic accident involving a goat...

[Bradypus]

Several news websites have reported the arrest of a French peregrino in Asturias after one of his goats was involved in an accident which left a motorcyclist with serious injuries. The man has been travelling with donkeys, goats and a dog for many months. I met the man and his animals on the Via de la Plata earlier this year.

Un peregrino francés con cinco burros, tres cabras y un perro provoca un accidente de tráfico en Asturias

Una cabra que invadió la calzada causó la caída de un hombre que circulaba en ciclomotor en Ribadesella | El acusado ha sido arrestado como supuesto autor de un delito de lesiones

www.elperiodicodearagon.com

 

[henrythedog]

Clearly I hope the motorcyclist makes a speedy and full recovery. Was the goat injured?

 

[Jeff Crawley]

So many "whys" to be asked here. Sincerely hoping the moped rider recovers from their injuries but five donkeys?

 

[Bradypus]

So many "whys" to be asked here. Sincerely hoping the moped rider recovers from their injuries but five donkeys?

The numbers seem to have changed a bit. When I met him he had three donkeys and six goats. Doesn't answer any of the 'why' questions though.

 

[Kathor1]

The numbers seem to have changed a bit. When I met him he had three donkeys and six goats. Doesn't answer any of the 'why' questions though.

There was an earlier thread about him but I can't remember the title. He was made to stay overnight in a bullring, together with his herd, and ordered to provide the necessary veterinary documentation but apparently he just left and was gone in the morning. This was in one of the towns in the earlier sections of the Camino Francés. An article at the time (September last year) says: Su vida discurre a cielo abierto, su casa es el camino y su trabajo una guitarra, que toca por los pueblos a cambio de la voluntad. Desea ser pastor y huye de la burocracia, trámites, tecnología ...

The 2021 article mentions a procession of three donkeys, seven goats and one dog and that's also what you see on photos and videoclips taken at the time. Plus two police cars. I have only one question and it is not about the police cars ...

​

 

[VNwalking]

May both the person on the moped and the goat be ok!

They arrested the pilgrim because of unreliability of appearance,' I assume meaning that they assumed he would not appear in court.

My only question is why people hate it when others choose to live in unconventional ways. This guy is harming no-one, except the person on a moped who hit one of his goats - and we don't really know whose fault the collision was, never mind what the police say.

 

[Plataman]

So many "whys" to be asked here. Sincerely hoping the moped rider recovers from their injuries but five donkeys?

You can never have too many donkeys.....

 

[RJM]

May both the person on the moped and the goat be ok!

They arrested the pilgrim because of unreliability of appearance,' I assume meaning that they assumed he would not appear in court.

My only question is why people hate it when others choose to live in unconventional ways. This guy is harming no-one, except the person on a moped who hit one of his goats - and we don't really know whose fault the collision was, never mind what the police say.

I didn't see any hateful comments about that pilgrim and his animals. What hate are you referring to?
Mind you, and this isn't being hateful, one has a responsibility for the animals and the public who could come into contact with the animals when one partakes in a journey like that. The safety and welfare. That includes ensuring all roadways are crossed safely, or when utilizing a road for walking that the animals do not wander into traffic (a difficult task at times I am sure). There may even be existing laws concerning traveling with livestock like that, restrictions etc. That could actually be considered a small herd of livestock.

 

[Richard of York]

I have met people who live on the camino who've stopped at mine for a beer. No donkeys or goats, maybe guitars or dogs. They know the places they can camp unobserved. The tales they tell usually involve grief. I listen.

 

[Kathor1]

There may even be existing laws concerning traveling with livestock like that, restrictions etc. That could actually be considered a small herd of livestock.

This was actually the reason why he appeared in the Spanish news in September last year. There had been concerns due to the apparent lack of documentation and compliance with veterinary regulations, especially concerns about the bluetongue disease and brucellosis, both of them a potential thread for local livestock and local farming.

Long-distance nomads travelling with animals are rather uncommon in this part of the world, i.e. Spain / France / Germany etc. Even professional shepherds do not travel long-distance with their flock and as far as I know they are trained professionals who are aware of their obligations as to compliance with health and safety regulations for the protection of both humans and animals.

I now see that there was a small wave of reports in Spanish media in January 2022 again after he had apparently travelled from Santo Domingo de la Calzada via the region of Madrid to Aguas Vivas and Caceres in Extramadura. And now reports for the third time due to this incident near Gijon in Asturias. I don't know whether he ever was in Galicia.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

You can never have too many donkeys.....

We're not supposed to discuss politics on the Forum!

 

[VNwalking]

I didn't see any hateful comments

You're right.
I wasn't referring to comnents here, more the general attitude in society that one must conform. People who live in different ways are often punished just because there is a hatred of difference.

one has a responsibility for the animals and the public who could come into contact with the animals when one partakes in a journey like that. The safety and welfare. That includes ensuring all roadways are crossed safely, or when utilizing a road for walking that the animals do not wander into traffic (a difficult task at times I am sure).

There had been concerns due to the apparent lack of documentation and compliance with veterinary regulations, especially concerns about the bluetongue disease and brucellosis, both of them

Absolutely.
Those are rules with reasons behind them.

 

[Former member 49149]

I selected the angry emoji. Not that I am wasting my energy by feeling it, anger. I acknowledge a reaction of disagreement though. The guy has a right to all his animals. But not at the cost of the safety of others. We each have a right to be who we are. My right meets a barrier if it hurts you. Those who have a wider and more compassionate vision, help me here.

 

[frjuliangreen]

Several news websites have reported the arrest of a French peregrino in Asturias after one of his goats was involved in an accident which left a motorcyclist with serious injuries. The man has been travelling with donkeys, goats and a dog for many months. I met the man and his animals on the Via de la Plata earlier this year.

Un peregrino francés con cinco burros, tres cabras y un perro provoca un accidente de tráfico en Asturias

Una cabra que invadió la calzada causó la caída de un hombre que circulaba en ciclomotor en Ribadesella | El acusado ha sido arrestado como supuesto autor de un delito de lesiones

www.elperiodicodearagon.com

I saw this guy by Puente Quintos on the VdlP/Sanabrés in March. I thought he was a local goatherd but the description fits. Seemed like an 'interesting' character. He was sitting by the side of the road smoking a homemade pipe.

 

[Kathor1]

Well, as has been pointed out we don't know many details. I have my doubts about five donkeys. It seems to me that the number of donkeys may have stayed the same and the number of goats may have decreased compared to those of nine months ago. While donkeys or horses make sense for slow or 'traditional' travel from France to Santiago or elsewhere in Spain and back because they are 'working' animals, goats (or dogs, cats and I don't know what else, parrots perhaps) are pets or 'family' as this Frenchman puts it.

Whatever, from time to time at least, you obviously either do need to or choose to proceed on roads that are shared by motorised traffic. The news articles are based on a police press release with this info about the location: on the AS-379, km. 1,500, a la altura del campo de fútbol de Oreyana-Ribadesella. The AS-379 is not some country road or transhumance trail for the seasonal movement of livestock, it is a major road and looks like shown below (football field on the left). I have never travelled with a group of nearly a dozen four-legged animals. My uninformed guess it that the donkeys, linked to each other by ropes, will move slowly in a single file. The goats won't.

 

[Lexicos]

No surprise to me. We have had some individuals doing walks across the country here in Australia with camels and dogs. Check out John Elliot for the most recent. I ran into him when I went to the desert in the North last year.
Several others have done the same, male and female!
It’s nothing new in this place!!

However, no matter what our choice of adventure we should not do something that puts others at risk.

 

[Kathor1]

No surprise to me.

People hiking with donkeys, whether on a Camino trail to Santiago in Spain or in the Massif Central in France or in the High Atlas in Morocco or in any other popular destination are a dozen a dime these days. It's the herd of goats that sets this guy apart. And it's one of his goats that has now caused a local motorist to have a severe accident on the main road out of the town of Ribadesella.

 

[frjuliangreen]

Well, as has been pointed out we don't know many details. I have my doubts about five donkeys. It seems to me that the number of donkeys may have stayed the same and the number of goats may have decreased compared to those of nine months ago. While donkeys or horses make sense for slow or 'traditional' travel from France to Santiago or elsewhere in Spain and back because they are 'working' animals, goats (or dogs, cats and I don't know what else, parrots perhaps) are pets or 'family' as this Frenchman puts it.

Whatever, from time to time at least, you obviously either do need to or choose to proceed on roads that are shared by motorised traffic. The news articles are based on a police press release with this info about the location: on the AS-379, km. 1,500, a la altura del campo de fútbol de Oreyana-Ribadesella. The AS-379 is not some country road or transhumance trail for the seasonal movement of livestock, it is a major road and looks like shown below (football field on the left). I have never travelled with a group of nearly a dozen four-legged animals. My uninformed guess it that the donkeys, linked to each other by ropes, will move slowly in a single file. The goats won't.

View attachment 126026

When I saw him, as I remember, he had two or three donkeys, about eight goats and a dog

 

[makingtrax]

The numbers seem to have changed a bit. When I met him he had three donkeys and six goats. Doesn't answer any of the 'why' questions though.
View attachment 125940

Maybe for milk!!

 

[VNwalking]

The guy has a right to all his animals. But not at the cost of the safety of others. We each have a right to be who we are. My right meets a barrier if it hurts you. Those who have a wider and more compassionate vision, help me here.

Both. He can be who he is, however he is.
But also needs to be responsible about managing his herd so no-one is hurt.
It looks like a biggish road, from what you posted @Kathar1na . Which is noplace for a bunch of goats, who run here and there.
Sad. On many levels.

 

[henrythedog]

wrt number of donkeys. If you have two I suppose it’s possible to wake up one morning and find you have three? My experience is limited to hamsters so I’m extrapolating; but the principle’s the same.

Posts above do clarify the very real potential issues with undocumented livestock movement and animal health; which I hadn’t thought of but which seems to be reasonable grounds for the authorities taking an interest.

 

[J Willhaus]

Goats can be used to pull carts and are used sometimes for backpacking in the US. There are also people who rent their goats out to clear lots and pastures. They can also be difficult to keep penned and I have looked out to see one standing on the hood of my car. (That one one went back to the sale barn the next day.)

It would be a lot of responsibility to have that many animals without regular food or shelter for them. I hope the motorcyclist and goat are both OK.

 

[RJM]

A pilgrim, three donkeys, seven goats and a dog walk into a bar, the bartender says...
Looking at the photos, it reminds me of petting zoos. He's basically walking with a small petting zoo following along, lol.
Anyway, the poor guy may be a tad bit naive or overly idealistic on the realities of such an expedition. The dangers and I suppose the physical toll it can take on the animals. Realities of modern life differ greatly from a Disney "The Incredible Journey" style movie.

 

[henrythedog]

Goats … are used sometimes for backpacking in the US.

Seriously?

 

[J Willhaus]

Yes, there were some people who use them as pack animals.

Want to Lighten Your Load? Hike With a Goat.

For a growing number of hikers, goats are, well, the G.O.A.T. But not everyone is happy about it.

www.backpacker.com

 

[Kathor1]

There is an article in a French regional newspaper where he is in Couret which is halfway between Narbonne and SJPP. It dates from the beginning of August 2021. Much of it is behind a paywall but from what I can read, it appears that he embarked on a one year project to travel to Spain and back with his animals. I would not be surprised if that is his chosen way of life. He's been on the road for at least ten months now!

 

[RJM]

Yes, there were some people who use them as pack animals.

Want to Lighten Your Load? Hike With a Goat.

For a growing number of hikers, goats are, well, the G.O.A.T. But not everyone is happy about it.

www.backpacker.com

Llamas as well. A friend of mine did a back country mountains trip in one of the western states and he said the outfitter used llamas for carrying gear. He said the trip was great and the llamas easy to work with.

 

[Introibo]

and six goats.

Attitudes will change if it turns out he's been eating the goats.

 

[Kathor1]

We have discussed this in the past but it was never clear, or at least not clear to me, what the situation with carrying ID in Spain is (for foreigners who are EU citizens for example).

It has become clearer to me recently: Spanish nationals are not required to carry ID; they must have it but they can leave it at home. In contrast, it is mandatory for other EU nationals to carry ID with them when they are travelling to Spain or within Spain. Of course, this is a moot point for foreign pilgrims who stay in albergues or hotels, whether they are EU nationals or Third Country nationals because they must provide ID when they check in. And TCNs can't even fly directly from their home country to Spain without a valid passport.

The news reports about the French pilgrim who got arrested say that he did not have such documentation for himself. So this is the thing: There may be no controls of any kind when you cross a land border. But when it happens that the police or a judge or similar authority has a reason that allows them to submit you to such a control (which in general happens rarely), it is usually to your advantage when you are in compliance with general citizen obligations.

This applies of course not only to passports, national ID cards or driving licences but also to any other documents where it is mandatory to carry them.