Partial "Portugal Portion Only"Camino possible?

[Nerak Giztips]

Hi, all! Since the Portuguese Camino crosses both Portugal and Spain, and since each country will have their own timeline for re-opening, I'm wondering about the possibility of doing a partial "Portuguese-section-only" Camino sometime down the road, as soon as it is safe and permitted to travel to Portugal, even if Spain is not there yet. What are the odds that the accommodations on the Portugal portion will open, even if Spain is still closed?

I understand all the hypotheticals, and social distancing requirements. Just trying to think outside the box and work within the limitations of my work, vacation, budget, and life requirements.

Thanks in advance for your insight!

 

[SabsP]

Hi, all! Since the Portuguese Camino crosses both Portugal and Spain, and since each country will have their own timeline for re-opening, I'm wondering about the possibility of doing a partial "Portuguese-section-only" Camino sometime down the road, as soon as it is safe and permitted to travel to Portugal, even if Spain is not there yet. What are the odds that the accommodations on the Portugal portion will open, even if Spain is still closed?

I understand all the hypotheticals, and social distancing requirements. Just trying to think outside the box and work within the limitations of my work, vacation, budget, and life requirements.

Thanks in advance for your insight!

This could be an option but then the most important question you have to ask yourself is ,if you will be allowed to enter back into your country of residence? Also take into consideration that a quarantine ( if there would be a new Covid outbreak ) might be mandatory.
Regarding budget : might be that some albergues prefer to stay closed so extra funds needed for staying in pivate places?

I can recommend the Camino Portugues :the Portugues are such wonderful hosts.

 

[Nerak Giztips]

SabineP, thanks for your response. Both of your insights are helpful, and I will look into them!

 

[The Kolbist]

however remote, it would be nice to walk the Valenca to Fatima and be on Fatima on Oct 13 - feast day of our Lady of Fatima.. wishful thinking? We'll see

 

[Anibaska]

Hi everyone
I'm new here. I would like to go to Camino Portuguese in September. Do you think that any alberge will be open at this time? Two years ago I went to Santiago de Compostela in Spain and, like then, I'm looking for donations alberge. Have you got any recent list?
Thanks

 

[koilife]

At this point, a Magic 8 Ball is as accurate as anything else.

 

[jungleboy]

I'll give a bit of an update regarding the situation in Portugal at the moment in the hope that it adds to the discussion (I live in Lisbon).

Late last week the state of emergency was lifted and a three-stage reopening was announced. The first stage began today with small, non-essential street-facing shops allowed to open, including hairdressers etc. If all goes well, on May 18, larger street-facing shops will be allowed to open, as well as restaurants and museums, tourist sites etc. For the final phase on June 1 (again if all goes well), all shops including those in shopping centres will be allowed to open.

In the government announcement last week, I did not see reference to hotels. I have previously read a suggestion that rural hotels could open in June and city hotels in September.

I am hoping to be able to do some domestic walking this year - at the moment I'm looking at two non-camino options, the Rota Vicentina in the south (this would have to be later in the year as it's too hot in summer even if things are fully open by then), and the GR22 route further north that goes through 12 historical villages.

 

[Michael; Camino-addicted]

however remote, it would be nice to walk the Valenca to Fatima and be on Fatima on Oct 13 - feast day of our Lady of Fatima.. wishful thinking? We'll see

Bad news for those who would like to make a pilgrimage to Fatima this year instead of Santiago

The Rector of the Sanctuary in Fatima, Carlos Cabecinhas, has informed, that unfortunately it will not be possible to receive pilgrims in Fatima this year.
(from teletext on Germans TV)

 

[Deleted member 94911]

Bad news for those who would like to make a pilgrimage to Fatima this year instead of Santiago

The Rector of the Sanctuary in Fatima, Carlos Cabecinhas, has informed, that unfortunately it will not be possible to receive pilgrims in Fatima this year.
(from teletext on Germans TV)

 

[Deleted member 94911]

if any of us survive the pandemic maybe 2022 or 2023
meanwhile cocoom

 

[Kathor1]

Bad news for those who would like to make a pilgrimage to Fatima this year instead of Santiago. The Rector of the Sanctuary in Fatima, Carlos Cabecinhas, has informed, that unfortunately it will not be possible to receive pilgrims in Fatima this year (from teletext on Germans TV)

"This year" doesn't refer to the whole year. It refers to this month and in particular to 12 May and 13 May which is a day of great affluence at Fatima but not this year as pilgrims are warned not to come. 13 May is the day of the first appearance. Listen to the Rector making the announcement in a video clip on their Fatima website. It is subtitled in English. He says explicitly: We are seeking to create the adequate conditions to be able to resume, as soon as possible, the pilgrimages to this place. So pilgrims may well be received again in Fatima in October 2020 for example.

The Rector proposes an inner pilgrimage from 4 to 13 May in greater detail in the video.

 

[Barbara]

if any of us survive the pandemic maybe 2022 or 2023
meanwhile cocoom

I wrote a reply to this but something happened to it
Because I thought it mattered, here it is again.
Please glance at the linked sites before continuing

1918 flu pandemic
Plague in mediaeval world
Covid 19

Perhaps this will help get some perspective.
The Black Death, or Plague, killed between a third and half of the world's population. Our current outbreak of Covid 19 has a mortality rate of (depends who you believe) between under one and 9 percent. Mostly older people and those who already had serious medical conditions leading to a short life expectancy. By comparison the Black Death and Spanish Flu (1918 to 1919) killed with far less age discrimination.

There may or may not eventually be a vaccine. We don't yet have one for AIDS or the common cold, despite trying for quite some time. We now do have an effective treatment for plague and a partially effective vaccine (most years) for flu.There may or may not eventually be better treatments, where we do seem to be making some progress.
An antibody test would also be useful. Get that and use it properly then we could find out who has had it, possibly without knowing that they did. Dying of starvation while we all stay home doesn't strike me as a great option. Some countries simply can't go into lockdown.

So, actually, I think quite a lot of us are likely to survive. OK, I expect this post will also vanish. I can't be sure, as my crystal ball is still at the re-chromers, but it seems more likely than not that the world will keep turning and that we will continue to crawl over it's surface.

 

[Ernesto.IT]

Hi, all! Since the Portuguese Camino crosses both Portugal and Spain, and since each country will have their own timeline for re-opening, I'm wondering about the possibility of doing a partial "Portuguese-section-only" Camino sometime down the road, as soon as it is safe and permitted to travel to Portugal, even if Spain is not there yet. What are the odds that the accommodations on the Portugal portion will open, even if Spain is still closed?

I understand all the hypotheticals, and social distancing requirements. Just trying to think outside the box and work within the limitations of my work, vacation, budget, and life requirements.

Thanks in advance for your insight!

Again for everybody safety : NO VACCINE NO CAMINO!!!!!:

Hi, all! Since the Portuguese Camino crosses both Portugal and Spain, and since each country will have their own timeline for re-opening, I'm wondering about the possibility of doing a partial "Portuguese-section-only" Camino sometime down the road, as soon as it is safe and permitted to travel to Portugal, even if Spain is not there yet. What are the odds that the accommodations on the Portugal portion will open, even if Spain is still closed?

I understand all the hypotheticals, and social distancing requirements. Just trying to think outside the box and work within the limitations of my work, vacation, budget, and life requirements.

Thanks in advance for your insight!

 

[Nerak Giztips]

I wrote a reply to this but something happened to it
Because I thought it mattered, here it is again.
Please glance at the linked sites before continuing

1918 flu pandemic
Plague in mediaeval world
Covid 19

Perhaps this will help get some perspective.
The Black Death, or Plague, killed between a third and half of the world's population. Our current outbreak of Covid 19 has a mortality rate of (depends who you believe) between under one and 9 percent. Mostly older people and those who already had serious medical conditions leading to a short life expectancy. By comparison the Black Death and Spanish Flu (1918 to 1919) killed with far less age discrimination.

There may or may not eventually be a vaccine. We don't yet have one for AIDS or the common cold, despite trying for quite some time. We now do have an effective treatment for plague and a partially effective vaccine (most years) for flu.There may or may not eventually be better treatments, where we do seem to be making some progress.
An antibody test would also be useful. Get that and use it properly then we could find out who has had it, possibly without knowing that they did. Dying of starvation while we all stay home doesn't strike me as a great option. Some countries simply can't go into lockdown.

So, actually, I think quite a lot of us are likely to survive. OK, I expect this post will also vanish. I can't be sure, as my crystal ball is still at the re-chromers, but it seems more likely than not that the world will keep turning and that we will continue to crawl over it's surface.

Barbara, thanks for (re)posting. I know at least two of us saw it.

 

[PilgrimJames]

Will travel into Portugal be possible in the near future? Non-EU residents might do well to check each country's requirements, i.e. Spain, Portugal, France etc. It is just not possible to access these countries for now. It is good to keep the discussion going but speculation is at best a waste of time. We are a long way off having the Camino open at this point in my view.

 

[trecile]

There may or may not eventually be a vaccine. We don't yet have one for AIDS or the common cold, despite trying for quite some time

I think that much of the reason for lack of vaccines for AIDS or the common cold is economic. Since AIDS now has good therapeutics, and it's not contracted easily through the air affecting many people at random there is not a huge market for a vaccine. As for the common cold, there are 60 or so viruses that cause it, likely requiring 60 vaccines, plus it's generally more if an annoyance and not life threatening.

 

[Deleted member 94911]

a lot of over 70 yrs old walk the camino’s
do you check age of pilgrims and if so by who police army or maybe young pilgrims
flights border closures
normal service Soon get real
new to this forum but I I finished 25 caminos a total of 15000 km

 

[The Kolbist]

Bad news for those who would like to make a pilgrimage to Fatima this year instead of Santiago

The Rector of the Sanctuary in Fatima, Carlos Cabecinhas, has informed, that unfortunately it will not be possible to receive pilgrims in Fatima this year.
(from teletext on Germans TV)

thanks Michael

 

[Ernesto.IT]

I wrote a reply to this but something happened to it
Because I thought it mattered, here it is again.
Please glance at the linked sites before continuing

1918 flu pandemic
Plague in mediaeval world
Covid 19

Perhaps this will help get some perspective.
The Black Death, or Plague, killed between a third and half of the world's population. Our current outbreak of Covid 19 has a mortality rate of (depends who you believe) between under one and 9 percent. Mostly older people and those who already had serious medical conditions leading to a short life expectancy. By comparison the Black Death and Spanish Flu (1918 to 1919) killed with far less age discrimination.

There may or may not eventually be a vaccine. We don't yet have one for AIDS or the common cold, despite trying for quite some time. We now do have an effective treatment for plague and a partially effective vaccine (most years) for flu.There may or may not eventually be better treatments, where we do seem to be making some progress.
An antibody test would also be useful. Get that and use it properly then we could find out who has had it, possibly without knowing that they did. Dying of starvation while we all stay home doesn't strike me as a great option. Some countries simply can't go into lockdown.

So, actually, I think quite a lot of us are likely to survive. OK, I expect this post will also vanish. I can't be sure, as my crystal ball is still at the re-chromers, but it seems more likely than not that the world will keep turning and that we will continue to crawl over it's surface.

I suppose in those days was impossible to have a lockdown all over the world and probably lack of information was helping the spread, as for now day the knowledge of what is happening around us should prevent the worst.
In Bergamo Italy people have died only in a couple of months the town population was 120.000. My village has 7.200. Thank you for the lockdown.
Buen Camino, Ultreia.

 

[Barbara]

I suppose in those days was impossible to have a lockdown all over the world and probably lack of information was helping the spread, as for now day the knowledge of what is happening around us should prevent the worst.
In Bergamo Italy 16.000 people have died only in a couple of months the town population was 120.000. My village has 7.200. Thank you for the lockdown.
Buen Camino, Ultreia.

I don't think the lockdown was in any way a bad idea. I'm sure it has saved many lives by slowing the spread of disease so health services could cope. But at some point we need to go back to work, and for that to happen we need, most of us, to leave our homes. The virus doesn't respect borders unless you happen to live on an island, so there is no real reason to close the borders within Europe, any more than in the USA between States. Travel restrictions should be applied by distance, not country. I don't think we can wait for a vaccine.
Just out of interest, you could look up one heroic village in England called Eyam.

 

[Ernesto.IT]

I don't think the lockdown was in any way a bad idea. I'm sure it has saved many lives by slowing the spread of disease so health services could cope. But at some point we need to go back to work, and for that to happen we need, most of us, to leave our homes. The virus doesn't respect borders unless you happen to live on an island, so there is no real reason to close the borders within Europe, any more than in the USA between States. Travel restrictions should be applied by distance, not country. I don't think we can wait for a vaccine.
Just out of interest, you could look up one heroic village in England called Eyam.

Hi, first of all I would like to apologise for the wrong number of death I detailed for Bergamo Province, at the moment (only ) 11.550 and nearly all in a couple of month and before the locked down of the Region, not 16000.
You can't compare what had happen many years ago but only learn from it and that is what many Nation have been too slow to understand. I think if there was a worldwide lockdown for three weeks by now we would have been able to continue ours lives normally.Even the PM of GB has changed his opinion after he find himself under the deadly virus, he got it so bad that they were already preparing his memorial, he was lucky that they find a spare pulmonary ventilator for him, something impossible to have if to many require intensificare.
But now day we want rightly free for all, so
Buen Camino

 

[Barbara]

Ernesto, you need to check your information for the UK please. Boris Johnson was treated in a fully equipped hospital in Central London, by the NHS. He was in intensive care but not on a ventilator. Not because they didn't have one, but because his doctors didn't consider it advisable. You make it sound as if people were looking in the spares box to find a ventilator. He got, I might add, the same treatment as any other UK resident would have done in the same clinical situation.
As for the obituary, that would already have been ready to use, just like any other well known person. You surely don't think a newspaper said until someone famous is ill before writing the obituary, do you?

Again for everybody safety : NO VACCINE NO CAMINO!!!!!:

Now, back to your point on lockdown. Hindsight is always wonderfully clear. We have had a full lockdown and lowered the numbers in many countries enough that health services are not overburdened. Italy was unfortunate to be the first major outbreak outside China, so was somewhat unprepared. Other countries, the UK amongst them, were tardy in taking containment steps. That is in the past. If we wish to have a future, then at some point we have to return to normal life. This isn't going to happen in one day, but will have to be progressive, and watching infection rates carefully. But it will have to happen and can't wait for a vaccine. Not if you want to continue eating, living in a house with water and electricity, and educating your children.
Please don't shout about it again. I have taken the trouble to write a considered reply and expect the same courtesy from others.

This isn't about the Camino. It's about the world. This disease is now widespread. That's why it's called a Pandemic. It's serious but it's not the Black Death. Stopping people going for a walk won't make it un-happen. It's entirely possible to go for a walk and stay in a hotel or a tent and put no person at extra risk of catching any disease. I doubt if Albergues will be able to continue housing people in such close proximity, and far more small rooms will be needed. So, walkers will just have to pay what it costs. Which do you prefer, no income for anyone, or a more expensive holiday for some? Because as far as the Camino is concerned, those are the choice I see.

Tourism, like it or not, is a major part of the economy of many countries. Spain more than most. Vaccines work, mostly, but are not 100% and take time to develop and test. We need to re open the world, carefully, yes. Progressively, yes. But open we must. We can't leave it for probably two years. Or possibly never.
It's not going to be a free for all. It will take a while. But it will happen, as the alternative is far worse.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

Again for everybody safety : NO VACCINE NO CAMINO!!!!!:

There is no basis for such a speculation. Aside from the fact that we have no idea IF a vaccine is possible, we have no ability to predict the time it will take to develop such a vaccine, produce it in quantities to allow for global immunizations to be administered, and to evaluate its overall effective rate.

If a COVID-19 vaccine is finally developed and available, that effectiveness rate could be very low. For example, influenza has almost the same profile of age-based risk as COVID-19 (Older adults and immune compromised at far higher risk for morbidity or mortality). Yet on average, influenza vaccines have an overall average effectiveness rate of around 62%.

Then there are individuals that, medically, are unable to be vaccinated due to contraindications.

So there may be a vaccine, but it may leave a significant portion of the population still at-risk for infection of COVID-19. Vaccine may be one strategy to help reduce infection risks, but it is doubtful that tourism will be dependent on a vaccination.

 

[Ernesto.IT]

There is no basis for such a speculation. Aside from the fact that we have no idea IF a vaccine is possible, we have no ability to predict the time it will take to develop such a vaccine, produce it in quantities to allow for global immunizations to be administered, and to evaluate its overall effective rate.

If a COVID-19 vaccine is finally developed and available, that effectiveness rate could be very low. For example, influenza has almost the same profile of age-based risk as COVID-19 (Older adults and immune compromised at far higher risk for morbidity or mortality). Yet on average, influenza vaccines have an overall average effectiveness rate of around 62%.

Then there are individuals that, medically, are unable to be vaccinated due to contraindications.

So there may be a vaccine, but it may leave a significant portion of the population still at-risk for infection of COVID-19. Vaccine may be one strategy to help reduce infection risks, but it is doubtful that tourism will be dependent on a vaccination.

As I said the virus is here, free for all., everybody is welcome.
Buen camino.
My (due to the long walk planned )it will not be possible until 2022.
That if I still around!
Ultreia

 

[Deleted member 67185]

As I said the virus is here, free for all., everybody is welcome.
Buen camino.

Sheesh. . . the snark isn't necessary.

 

[SabsP]

Sheesh. . . the snark isn't necessary.

Could we also take into consideration please that not everybody here on this forum in an English native speaker so things can get lost in translation?

@Ernesto.IT I do feel your worries! Your region and country are so severely hit.
I hope things get better soon.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

Could we also take into consideration please that not everybody here on this forum in an English native speaker so things can get lost in translation?

Given the context of the member's posts, I do not believe that such is the case

 

[Texas Walker]

Again for everybody safety : NO VACCINE NO CAMINO!!!!!:

You are entitled to make that decision for yourself. There is no reason to SHOUT at your fellow pilgrims.

And while it would be nice to have a vaccine, the last time a SARS virus poked its ugly little head up, by the time they were ready to start (the expensive part, I guess) human trials of the new vaccine candidate(s?) the thing had faded and they didn't continue the development. One wonders, if they'd muttered "a stitch in time saves nine" would the whole situation be somewhat less nerve-wracking today? The current plague is diminishing. The sunshine, the hot weather, etc., mean it's entirely possible that it continues to fade. In some-odd months when they're ready to seriously trial vaccine candidates, will it still be something the people working on medicines and vaccines think is urgent?

I liked and was inspired by the Czech video Masks4all. As the pretty lady says of the fabric masks, "mine saves you, yours saves me." As transmission is a thing in crowded spaces not on mostly empty trails, one can carry a fabric mask in one's pocket and wear it as a sign of support and charitable protectiveness towards one's fellow man while in shops and such like. One can also eat or drink outside instead of crowded up inside the bars and restaurants. And one can stay in private accomodations so as not to lie in a bunk on one side of a large room of bunks wondering if that lady coughing over there is far enough away. (Been there, done that.)

We can all act with respect and kindness and common sense.

 

[Marc S.]

The current plague is diminishing. The sunshine, the hot weather, etc., mean it's entirely possible that it continues to fade. In some-odd months when they're ready to seriously trial vaccine candidates, will it still be something the people working on medicines and vaccines think is urgent?

I hope you are right, but I am afraid you are not... In warm weather and summer time, spreading of the virus may decrease, but there is a great change of a second peak, once it gets colder again. At least that is what I understand from following the news.
Although these are confusing times - I am longing for the time my country's national football team has 17 million coaches again, instead of having 17 million virologists
For the rest, let us be nice to each other.

 

[trecile]

I liked and was inspired by the Czech video Masks4all. As the pretty lady says of the fabric masks, "mine saves you, yours saves me." As transmission is a thing in crowded spaces not on mostly empty trails, one can carry a fabric mask in one's pocket and wear it as a sign of support and charitable protectiveness towards one's fellow man while in shops and such like

 

[JabbaPapa]

As far as I can tell from official announcements, the only possible pilgrimage walk to Compostela might be by someone travelling alone and from home within Galicia and capable and willing to sleep outdoors if necessary, and always scrupulously respecting local social confinement rules.

Though I suppose that the very shortest Caminos by those living within the urban sprawl of the city to the Cathedral have never quite ceased.

But as to Portugal, it is very unlikely IMO that a pilgrim would be allowed, except by accident, to cross the Portugal to Spain international border.

Funnily enough, one of the supermarkets where I buy stuff is just across an international border ; and I felt a need to call the national Government down here to find out if, starting next week, I'd somehow need to have the sort of certificate that's being phased out in France but it's not in France, it's across an international border.

Thankfully, the answer was no.

 

[JabbaPapa]

I think that much of the reason for lack of vaccines for AIDS or the common cold is economic.

Pure conspiracy theory, sorry ...

 

[SabsP]

@edelstein : seems we got a bit sidetracked from your OP.

Even if a ( Portugues ) Camino is not immediately possible, I do wish you happy preparations!

 

[trecile]

Pure conspiracy theory, sorry ...

Why is it a conspiracy theory? Companies don't spend millions/billions of dollars on research and development if they don't think that there is a big enough market for their product.

 

[C clearly]

This thread started as a question about a Portugal-only camino, but the discussion has gone off-topic and has turned into another thread on the usual range of Covid-connected debates.

This thread will be closed. Please take your general discussions to one of the established threads:

Coronavirus discussion (Round 6)​

Designing a camino for post-Covid​