Pack Weight and Other Impediments

[Bob Howard]

Ok, I fully expect this to be controversial, and it arises from the current forum thread about pack weight.

First, my premise. For those of us who have previously walked the Camino, and especially longtime backpackers/hikers, I think we have a duty to dispense straightforward, unvarnished advice. Now, if you are a veteran Pilgrim or backpacker, you know what you can do, and what constitutes comfort in terms of pack weight. I'm speaking now of the neophyte who is undertaking the Camino and it is the first time that person has walked an extended distance, and carried a pack. That is the person who is in most need of sound advice.

When I read responses to newbies questions about pack weight, I can't help but notice most of them are of the "just do what works for you" genre. Sorry, that's not good enough. The newbies don't know what works. So, when they hear about the so-called 10% of body weight "rule", that probably sounds reasonable. But it's not. And here's where I imagine I am going to get hammered: No one, irrespective of your years of Camino/hiking/backpacking experience or physical condition needs to or should carry more than 15 lbs/7kgs--12 lbs is closer to the ideal in my rather opinionated view. A few more pounds on any given day I suppose is not a big deal, but extra pounds daily over the course of 4-6 weeks is a big deal. And while I can't prove this point with data, my years of wilderness backpacking and my two recent Caminos tell me that the weight on your back is directly correlated to your ability and likelihood of completing the trek. Most veteran backpackers will have some formula where they have heard about the effect of each additional lb on your legs (mostly from the knee down) and feet. The sheer force that causes blisters or the strain on our knees, lower legs and feet is magnified by every pound on our backs.

I live in the mountains at about 8000 feet elevation. Most of the serious backpackers I know have their kit down to about 9 lbs exclusive of water and food. And, that, of course, includes cooking gear, tent, pad and sleeping bag--three of those four things are not required on the Camino. A sleeping bag in not necessary in the summer months, although having one might make you feel better, but from June through September it's just not needed. So, if serious long distance thru hikers have their basic kit down around 10 lbs, it seems like Camino Pilgrims could approach that weight. On a side note, I will avoid talking about the over-abundance of caution regarding carrying water. I read on this forum regularly about people carrying two liters! Two liters weight is 4.5 lbs. Yes, there are a couple days when there is a dearth of bars and one might be 10 miles between water. But 95% of the time, it's one village/bar after another. But this water thing is not the point of my post. I will just say that inasmuch as on the Camino we are walking through a man-made landscape with it's attendant commerce, this idea of constantly being "hydrated" necessitating carrying water, is in my I'm sure to be controversial experience way overdone. Now, of course, there are exceptions. On a scorching day, more water will be required I suppose, but overall there is simply no need to carry 2-4 lbs of water. It just ain't necessary. If our feet and knees could talk, they would probably tell us that.

It has been heartening to see that over the last few years on the forum, trail shoes/trainers/running shoes have pretty much displaced conventional hiking boots, which is another topic some of our veteran members have successfully weighed in on. But, what we put on our feet is so personal and unique to the specific body, that the "whatever works for you" approach is probably right. If you have comfortable shoes that you know from experience will work, well that's good enough. But pack weight is a different story. Again, and blast away at me for my seemingly dogmatic opinions, but I'll say it again--no one needs to or should carry more than 15 lbs, and getting it down to 12 should be the goal.

To make my earlier point about unvarnished advice, the opinions I have expressed here derive from almost 50 years of wildnerness backpacking, and, most recently, the Camino. By the way, Camino walking/trekking has totally replaced wilderness backpacking for me. To paraphrase the words of the great Native American and Warrior Chief Joseph, "never no more shall I sleep in the ground, even in a tent."

Finally, these comments relate specifically to advising brand new Pilgrims without previous backpacking experience. For those experienced on this forum, and there are many, you already know what your limitations are, and you pack accordingly.

Ok, I am prepared to accept incoming fire regarding this post.

 

[C clearly]

no one needs to or should carry more than 15 lbs, and getting it down to 12 should be the goal.

these comments relate specifically to advising brand new Pilgrims without previous backpacking experience.

I'd particularly agree with these two statements together. If a first-timer asked for my advice, that is what I would say, even including the "should". To an experienced hiker/walker (who wouldn't be asking for my advice anyway) I'd remove the "should." If my advice was not requested (or welcome) I would try not to say anything. People posting here are usually asking for advice.

I will join you on the firing line if you dare to start a post about hydration.

 

[Vacajoe]

Your argument is valid with some added notes:

I think economics plays into pack weight, though, and should be considered when comparing the average first-time hiker versus a seasoned long-range hiker.

Tech fabrics, ultralight backpacks, and so on are worthy investments but not likely ones for newbies. As a result, the same number of items (2 shirts, 2 pants, etc) will end up heavier for a less-wealthy person especially when we are discussing such a limited overall kit.

Additionally, physical size also weighs into the situation. The pants/shirt/socks of a 6 foot tall, 235lb person will simply weigh more than that of a 5 foot, 110lb person (yes, me and my wife!). If we packed the identical types and numbers of clothing items, my gear weighs in 3x heavier.

Again, your basic premise is fine: pack light (and then unpack and repack again but even lighter!), but I’d refrain from using ANY specific weight recommendation since it IS dependent upon the person carrying it.

(FYI: I spent 23 years at a job carrying 35lb+ packs on my back but my Camino bag weighs in at 15lbs before water/snacks, so I get what you are saying...)

 

[C clearly]

I’d refrain from using ANY specific weight recommendation

But when someone asks "How much weight should I carry?" it seems silly to avoid numbers. Give them a clue!

 

[Bob Howard]

I'd particularly agree with these two statements together. If a first-timer asked for my advice, that is what I would say, even including the "should". To an experienced hiker/walker (who wouldn't be asking for my advice anyway) I'd remove the "should." If my advice was not requested (or welcome) I would try not to say anything. People posting here are usually asking for advice.

I will join you on the firing line if you dare to start a post about hydration.

And I was thinking I was alone in the world in my opinion that it's possible to walk a few miles without carrying or drinking water.

 

[Vacajoe]

When asked, I suggest specific items and quantities (2 pairs of pants, rain jacket, sleepsack, etc) and not a specific weight. By limiting numbers, weight is also decreased.

The key, though, is getting that pack on their back and having them walk some hills for hours on end. It astounds me that so many folks have never actually hiked with their fully-loaded bag before they step off the train onto their Camino!

 

[Vacajoe]

By the way, why carry water when there is a much better alternative to carry...

 

[VNwalking]

Ok, I am prepared to accept incoming fire regarding this post.

This is a thought-provoking thread, Bob. Thank you for starting it.
I agree and disagree - and totally agree with your recommenation to offer specific advice.
But if there's one thing we should all stop doing here, it's dispensing one-size-fits-all advice, because people and situations differ.
For example:

I read on this forum regularly about people carrying two liters!

That's me. And I often drink all of it. Water is an essential, so maybe you don't need it, but others might.
And:

No one, irrespective of your years of Camino/hiking/backpacking experience or physical condition needs to or should carry more than 15 lbs/7kgs--12 lbs is closer to the ideal in my rather opinionated view

Sorry, but just...no.
Different seasons, different circumstances, different clothes, different conditions.
Winter/spring versus summer.
Some people may be able to afford special lightweight clothes and equipment. But not everyone can. Some folks are small and some are big. And some people wear heavier clothes because they are following religoius conventions.
So please don't put us all in the same basket, and then cause new pilgrims with heavier packs to feel that they're doing something wrong if they don't for some reason conform to an arbitrary standard.

 

[Dorpie]

Hi @Bob Howard

I'm pretty much with you on the pack weight thing, even as a pretty massive 120kg guy my dry pack weight in fair weather is around 7kg and that's with a couple of luxuries thrown in.

On the water however I disagree. I sweat, on a hot day I sweat a lot! and can easily drink six litres over a long walk. Good hydration correlates with joint lubrication and so rather than relieving your joints by carrying insufficient water you may actually be damaging them. Also it's not as if it's a weight you're carrying all the time, it does reduce as you go along. Now you make your point that apart from a few exceptions the Frances is strewn with water sources but as we're talking specifically about advice to newbies that's kind of an irrelevance.

Obviously given my bulk I'm a bit of an outlier but I just don't think it's good advice to make a blanket statement that two litres of water is too much.

Thanks for putting your head above the parapet to be shot at, it's good to discuss these things.

Rob.

 

[Laliibeans]

Going to have to disagree, too. Most of my experience is multi-day hiking in Australia, so that's what my gear is well, geared for. I wear boots to prevent snake bites and I always take at least two litres of water because I drink it and come from a place where water can be scarce. I'm not going to buy a whole new kit just on the off-chance I can afford to go to Europe every couple of years, I'm taking what I know.

My sister and I had a lot of people make negative comments about our packs when we last walked the camino and it was incredibly rude and judgemental. Why anyone else needs to judge others at all or feel that their experience trumps other peoples (who may be just as, or more, experienced than they are) is beyond me. They also had no idea what our packs actually weighed, they just thought they'd give their opinion regardless.

I'll always advise people to keep their pack-weight down, but next time I'm walking I'm tempted to bring along photos of my weightlifting achievements to stick to the foreheads of those who want to share their opinions. I'm very comfortable with what I carried when I walked, if I'd been less experienced and worried about other peoples rules I would have spent a lot of time stressing over not taking things I actually needed (remembering also that there might be items women need to carry that men don't have to consider, and the same goes for people with medical requirements), and I also would have been stressed by how insurmountable the cost of ultra-light gear would have been, too. The best advice you can give is for people to do some serious test runs with their pack on.

 

[Bob Howard]

Ok, I'm going to stick my head a little father above the parapet. Of course there are individual variations, and the seasonal issue counts. But I would guesstimate that 99% of fist time Pilgrims walk May-September. So, seasonal clothing would have a minor effect. I didn't say this in the initial post, but assorted replies incline me to observe that whether you weigh 100 lbs or 250 lbs, and absent having to carry medical devices, a 15 lb pack should be the maximum for every first timer on the Camino. Now, of course a bigger person can carry more weight. But just because they can, is that a reason to do it? Probably a reason to keep pack weight at minimum for the 250 pounder inasmuch as that person's feet and knees are going to be pounded, so to speak, by their body weight as well as the pack. Regarding the economics of going light, I get that. There's an old saw among hardcore backpackers that if you buy the best lightweight gear, you could easily spend $40-50 on each ounce saved. But that is true hyper-light packing. Technical lightweight fast drying apparel can be had for about the same price as its street counterpart. And, of course, the pack itself. There are great 2 lb +/- packs from Osprey, Gregory and others--assuming about a 35L pack size. And, now I will really enter dangerous territory on the parapet, and hang by my fingernails as I say "A 35L pack is big enough for everyone, irrespective of body weight. Maybe you could push it to 40L, but bigger than that is just not necessary. Again, I know this sounds dogmatic, but I'm not aiming these thoughts at the Camino veterans, but rather to that excited but inexperienced Pilgrim-in-Waiting.

 

[Bob Howard]

Going to have to disagree, too. Most of my experience is multi-day hiking in Australia, so that's what my gear is well, geared for. I wear boots to prevent snake bites and I always take at least two litres of water because I drink it and come from a place where water can be scarce. I'm not going to buy a whole new kit just on the off-chance I can afford to go to Europe every couple of years, I'm taking what I know.

My sister and I had a lot of people make negative comments about our packs when we last walked the camino and it was incredibly rude and judgemental. Why anyone else needs to judge others at all or feel that their experience trumps other peoples (who may be just as, or more, experienced than they are) is beyond me. They also had no idea what our packs actually weighed, they just thought they'd give their opinion regardless.

I'll always advise people to keep their pack-weight down, but next time I'm walking I'm tempted to bring along photos of my weightlifting achievements to stick to the foreheads of those who want to share their opinions. I'm very comfortable with what I carried when I walked, if I'd been less experienced and worried about other peoples rules I would have spent a lot of time stressing over not taking things I actually needed (remembering also that there might be items women need to carry that men don't have to consider, and the same goes for people with medical requirements), and I also would have been stressed by how insurmountable the cost of ultra-light gear would have been, too. The best advice you can give is for people to do some serious test runs with their pack on.

Hello, Lalibeans. I have tried to make it clear that my comments have to do with advising the neophyte. You are obviously an experienced outdoorsman, and you know what works. And you have a history of carrying your gear without discomfort or pain. My whole point in this has not been not to change the mind or presume to offer advice to experienced backpackers--I started this thread after reading the posts in the other pack weight thread that was started by an an inexperience prospective Pilgrim. By the way, do you use one of those front and back Arn packs? I saw one on my 2016 Camino, and I was fascinated by it.

 

[Bob Howard]

By the way, why carry water when there is a much better alternative to carry...

View attachment 55902

That reminded me that last Summer at the Irache wine fountain outside of Estella, I saw someone filling their pack water bladder from the wine spigot.

 

[tomnorth]

I think the best advice to give a newbie is to get your pack weight down as much as you can, eliminating fluff, redundancies, and just-in-case items, and then to take several long hikes with your pack at that weight to see how comfortable it is and how your feet fair. I’ve gone through my pack list with a fine toothed comb. I’m a photographer, so I bring my DSLR fitted with one small lens. Without the camera and accessories, my pack weight is 18.3 lbs/8.2 kg. With the camera and accessories, my pack weight is 22 lbs/10 kg. The items I’d have to remove to get my pack weight down much farther pretty much all have to do with my getting a good night’s sleep (e.g. sleeping bag). I handled this much weight just fine on my first Camino as a newbie, and the Osprey Stratus 36l pack I use fits me perfectly.

 

[Bradypus]

No one, irrespective of your years of Camino/hiking/backpacking experience or physical condition needs to or should carry more than 15 lbs/7kgs--12 lbs is closer to the ideal in my rather opinionated view.

I find that an astonishingly sweeping statement. Is it really possible to assert that no one can ever have genuine specific personal needs which demand a larger pack weight? Specialist medical equipment perhaps? Or as @VNwalking points out the possibility of social and religious conventions to observe.

On a side note, I will avoid talking about the over-abundance of caution regarding carrying water. I read on this forum regularly about people carrying two liters! Two liters weight is 4.5 lbs. Yes, there are a couple days when there is a dearth of bars and one might be 10 miles between water. But 95% of the time, it's one village/bar after another.

You seem to be making another sweeping assumption: that "the Camino" and "the Camino Frances" are one and the same. It is probably true that many people are overly anxious about the availability of water on the CF. But as someone who walked the Via de la Plata not so long ago I passed two memorials within a km or so of each other to pilgrims who died in heat and hydration related incidents on a stage in which water is often unavailable for nearly 30km and summer temperatures are sometimes in excess of 40C. And later on that journey I spent a night sleeping only a few metres from another spot where a young man in his 40s died through heat exposure and dehydration a few months later. It is most unwise to make categorical statements about the Caminos and what others may or may not need based on limited personal experience of one of the many possible routes.

 

[Vacajoe]

By the way, “seasonal” in Northern Spain includes 1.3 METERS of snow over some mountain passes and more than a few centimeters on Cebreiro, Leon, Burgos,...and it’s almost May! Not saying you have to bring a sled and a dog team, but it’s still cold enough on several routes through May that foregoing cold weather gear in the hopes of making a magical weight number would be foolish.

 

[Dorpie]

@Bradypus In @Bob Howard 's defence this is a specifically Camino Frances thread so bringing in VdlP seems a little unfair.

 

[dougfitz]

@Bob Howard, would it be impertinent to ask that you reveal your height and weight? I am interested because I find most of the posts like yours are made by people who are (a) close to average in height and weight than those of us who might be taller, heavier or both; and (b) often display little understanding of the multiplicity of factors that are going to affect pack weight, one's own walking weight being but one of them. Although, in deference to your experience, that latter observation might not be true in your case.
Also, given that extensive experience, I wonder if you would care to share with us your fluid consumption rates under different walking conditions?

First, my premise. For those of us who have previously walked the Camino, and especially longtime backpackers/hikers, I think we have a duty to dispense straightforward, unvarnished advice.

This is the one thing in your post that I completely agree with.

No one, irrespective of your years of Camino/hiking/backpacking experience or physical condition needs to or should carry more than 15 lbs/7kgs--12 lbs is closer to the ideal in my rather opinionated view.

The one thing I agree with you here is that this is an opinionated view, and should be treated as such.

I will just say that inasmuch as on the Camino we are walking through a man-made landscape with it's attendant commerce, this idea of constantly being "hydrated" necessitating carrying water, is in my I'm sure to be controversial experience way overdone.

When I did some internet based research on water consumption some years ago, I found that on the Camino Frances, nearly 40% of the time, the distance to the next village is greater than 5 km, and of those, nearly 25% of distances are more than 10 km. I walk at best at about 4.5 km/h, and on a hot day my body uses about 700 ml/hr. A lot of the time, I wouldn't need to be carrying more than a litre if I wanted to take the time in each village to find a font and fill up at it. But there is clearly a significant amount of the time that I will need to be carrying more. I don't make detailed calculations here, I fill up a 2 li water bladder and accept that there might be times even that will be marginal. If you are interested, the posts on this are here and here.

 

[spursfan]

Just to concur that your advice on how much water to carry is specific to the Camino Frances - along the Norte and Primitivo there are far fewer guaranteed sources of water while temperatures can frequently go above 30C even in May and September - a dangerous combination - so I carry at least 2L and sometimes 4L of water

But your advice to carry less rather than more is correct - and such advice comes from seeing people that are struggling with over-heavy rucksacks - since most on their second camino will carry less than on their first camino and Bob is trying to pass on that wisdom to first-time pilgrims

 

[Bradypus]

@Bradypus In @Bob Howard 's defence this is a specifically Camino Frances thread so bringing in VdlP seems a little unfair.

Thank you - I had failed to spot that the thread was posted in the "Camino Frances" section. But as @Bob Howard consistently refers generically to "the Camino" rather than the "Camino Frances" in particular in his posts I will let my comments stand as they are for the moment.

 

[dougfitz]

@Bradypus In @Bob Howard 's defence this is a specifically Camino Frances thread so bringing in VdlP seems a little unfair.

@Dorpie, I think there are stretches of the CF where the conditions would be similar to those raised by @Bradypus. I think it is always a risk, not just in summer but clearly heightened then. See my post above for some links to discussion on this issue from a few years ago.

 

[Dorpie]

@dougfitz and @Bradypus Having run out of water and been on the brink of heatstroke on the path into Hontanas, despite a 2.5 litre bladder, I concur that this is an issue on the CF. I was merely pointing out that if we are to beat @Bob Howard with a stick it should at least be the right stick and not one to be found on the roadside of another camino

 

[dougfitz]

I was merely pointing out that if we are to beat @Bob Howard with a stick it should at least be the right stick and not one to be found on the roadside of another camino

@Dorpie, methinks the only stick being wielded in this thread is the one @Bob Howard took to us (generally) in his rather strident initial post.

 

[Hilarious]

As a complete newbie to the Camino (starting from SJPdP) in mid September I am grateful for all the advice and opinions I have read here. I have been walking with my loaded pack for about the last 12 months. Something I wouldn’t have thought of before this forum. I am not a seasoned hiker! I have almost worn out my first pair of Salomons X-Ultras (1 size larger than I normally wear - something else I have learned here). Have worked up from 20kms per week to between 70-80kms with 22 kms being my longest walk so far. Found a few hills/steep flights of stairs to walk and always carry 1.5 litres of water. It’s very humid where I live in Australia so you sweat buckets. I haven’t weighed my pack yet but will be endeavouring to keep as light as I can. Due to you guys I have always looked at the weight of hiking clothes I have purchased to ensure I am not carrying unnecessary bulk. Just keep your opinions and feedback coming I say!

 

[Laliibeans]

Hello, Lalibeans. I have tried to make it clear that my comments have to do with advising the neophyte. You are obviously an experienced outdoorsman, and you know what works. And you have a history of carrying your gear without discomfort or pain. My whole point in this has not been not to change the mind or presume to offer advice to experienced backpackers--I started this thread after reading the posts in the other pack weight thread that was started by an an inexperience prospective Pilgrim. By the way, do you use one of those front and back Arn packs? I saw one on my 2016 Camino, and I was fascinated by it.

I realise your advice is geared towards newbies, but I'm not sure it's helpful to give such strict numbers when it's likely to cause some anxiety and possibly take some of the enjoyment out of it because of that kind of pressure. There has to be leeway for personal preferences, and also leeway for people to learn what suits them. Back when I started hiking I was a 48kg 13 year old, and in those days trying to stick to the 10% rule meant available packs were virtually all I could carry, with some water and nothing else. I was disheartened enough to not go on the first few hikes and ended up leaving the scout group because of things like that. It took me a long time to rediscover the fun of hiking on my own and part of that was figuring out what worked and what didn't.

Regarding the Arn packs, I haven't tried one, I have a feeling my anatomy wouldn't really be very comfortable with them!

 

[Geodoc]

By the way, why carry water when there is a much better alternative to carry...

View attachment 55902

I resemble that remark! But usually, my second "bottle" is soy or almond milk.

 

[Bob Howard]

@Bob Howard, would it be impertinent to ask that you reveal your height and weight? I am interested because I find most of the posts like yours are made by people who are (a) close to average in height and weight than those of us who might be taller, heavier or both; and (b) often display little understanding of the multiplicity of factors that are going to affect pack weight, one's own walking weight being but one of them. Although, in deference to your experience, that latter observation might not be true in your case.
Also, given that extensive experience, I wonder if you would care to share with us your fluid consumption rates under different walking conditions?

This is the one thing in your post that I completely agree with.

The one thing I agree with you here is that this is an opinionated view, and should be treated as such.

When I did some internet based research on water consumption some years ago, I found that on the Camino Frances, nearly 40% of the time, the distance to the next village is greater than 5 km, and of those, nearly 25% of distances are more than 10 km. I walk at best at about 4.5 km/h, and on a hot day my body uses about 700 ml/hr. A lot of the time, I wouldn't need to be carrying more than a litre if I wanted to take the time in each village to find a font and fill up at it. But there is clearly a significant amount of the time that I will need to be carrying more. I don't make detailed calculations here, I fill up a 2 liter water bladder and accept that there might be times even that will be marginal. If you are interested, the posts on this are here and here.

Dougfitz, I am 6' and weigh 195 lbs. As to fluid consumption, on the Camino Frances I carried a small plastic bottle (8 oz) that I would periodically sip from between bars or fountains. I walked in June in both 2016 and 2018, and there were some hot days. I tended to drink a lot of water in the morning before departing, and then simply stopped along the way for more water as well as other drinks, especially Coca-Cola's which I actually despise and never drink. Except on the Camino. They just taste so damn good there. And, yes, I do get that there is a multiplicity of factors regarding pack weight, which is why I tend to hover around the 12-15 lb goal. I fully acknowledge that all this is just my opinion, and based solely on my experience and observations. I knew this would cause a stir. But after my early wilderness days of hauling a 45 lb Kelty external frame pack with 30 days of freeze dried food for extended hikes in the Sierra Nevada, I have embraced going light--not with the zeal of ultra-light thru hikers--but simply as a practical matter. Even carrying 15 lbs, I can feel the effect/force of that weight on my foot fall. Again, as I think I have repeatedly stated, the idea was to simply provide more specific guidance to those who become enchanted with the idea of an extended Camino walk, but without previous backpacking experience. Although bodies are built in a range of structures and physical conditioning varies greatly among Pilgrims, there are some fundamental principles--fundamental principles which lead me to believe that 95% of those walking the Camino Frances would benefit with a pack weight of 15 lbs or less. And to complete my suicide leap from the parapet . . . well, as is pointed out, it's just my opinion.

 

[C clearly]

I swore to step away from this debate, but am compelled to come back...

• I am happy to recommend a general pack weight to inexperienced people who ask. Anyone who does silly things with my advice is, well, doing silly things. The consequences of them getting it wrong are not likely to be catastrophic, and my suggestion of a number of kg (or range) could be helpful to them.
• I think it is simply rude to embarrass people by unsolicited criticism or comment on the size of their backpacks, or their clothes, or their hairstyles, or other choices that affect no one else.

Most importantly...

• I would never make a recommendation on how much water a person should carry, except that they should know their bodies, be aware of the conditions, and be sure to take enough water. I am a fairly low water consumer, myself, bodies can be very very different in their needs. There are many unsupported truisms and cliches in the media about the need for water and hydration. I really dislike this misinformation and tend to point it out when it happens. However, the consequences of getting the amount of water wrong can be very serious or fatal, so I would not recommend an amount to anyone. They need to assess the information themselves, as adults, and make the decision.

 

[Tincatinker]

I would never make a recommendation on how much water a person should carry, except that they should know their bodies, be aware of the conditions, and be sure to take enough water... They need to assess the information themselves, as adults, and make the decision.

@C clearly, nailed it! All we need now is a few Adults on the Caminos

 

[Albertagirl]

I would never make a recommendation on how much water a person should carry, except that they should know their bodies, be aware of the conditions, and be sure to take enough water. I am a fairly low water consumer, myself, bodies can be very very different in their needs. There are many unsupported truisms and cliches in the media about the need for water and hydration. I really dislike this misinformation and tend to point it out when it happens. However, the consequences of getting the amount of water wrong can be very serious or fatal, so I would not recommend an amount to anyone.

@C clearly
I might agree with you, but this thread is about giving advice to newcomers who ask for it. I would suggest that to refuse to suggest what would likely be an adequate water supply for persons walking their first camino when you know that taking the wrong amount might be fatal is perhaps not very helpful. If they have never walked a distance in the heat or run out of water, they might not know, or might assume that they never need to drink more than they expect to be thirsty for. Coupled with an emphasis on a light weight pack, this could put them in a dangerous position. I know of what I speak. On my last two caminos I was significantly dehydrated, to the point where medical treatment for the effects of dehydration was needed. This year I am planning to walk again. So I went to a thread about the Madrid recently, to ask those who had walked it how available water was when they walked that route. The results were reassuring. But I have decided to carry two litres of water, to drink 250 ml. every half hour, even when I am not thirsty, to refill my water bottles whenever I can, and to fill myself up with water first thing in the morning. I hope that this level of planning will be adequate. I only wish I could plan for toilet facilities along the route. If I had the information available, I would refer questioners about adequate water to a graph suggesting adequate water for persons of a particular age or weight in conditions of heat or exertion, but I wonder if there are just too many variables to be precise. If a new pilgrim asked me, I think I would answer to carry two or three litres, according to your size and what you think you might need when exercising in hot weather and to adjust this amount up or down as you gained further experience, but not with the assumption that the fountains on the route would be working, as they might be out of commission (this happened to me on the Aragones.) People are asking us because they want to know, so we cannot assume that they already do or have some idea how they could figure this out themselves.

 

[C clearly]

I would suggest that to refuse to suggest what would likely be an adequate water supply

Yes, I wouldn't refuse to discuss it. But I don't think I could confidently "recommend" that another person carry what I do, as it seems to be less than what many people say they need.

not with the assumption that the fountains on the route would be working

I agree that this should not be assumed, and it is dangerous to assume on long/hot stages.

 

[Tincatinker]

@Albertagirl I might agree with you, but all advice is dangerous even when given in good heart. I'm minded of the sad death of Leah Betts who died from hyponatremia having followed well meant advice from Government sources to drink lots of water if consuming MDMA.
Excessive water consumption is as deleterious to the corpus as dehydration. @C clearly's post says anyone stepping out of their known environments should "should know their bodies, be aware of the conditions, and be sure to take enough water".

A Litre of water weighs a Kilogram, thats a given, and that weight, multiplied by two or three is a heavy burden in addition to Rucksack, spare Knickers and toothpaste. I have been astonished, time and again, to observe Pilgrims arrive at a water source, empty their Litre bottles of warm, stale, water: re-fill and walk on. Without even pausing for a drink.

I like your plan for the Madrid. I'll drink a Litre, at least, in the morning before I even start walking (after all I'll have spent most of the night getting up every few hours to pee). I'll set off with a couple of full bladders, if you follow my gist, but I won't drink till I'm thirsty or I find that next source. Then I'll drink, re-fill and venture again. Yes, there are stretches, even on the Camino Frances, where you may need to walk 2 hours without a source of fresh water and there are Caminos where I'll take local advice and carry more than that Litre but they are rare, rare places. Even in the Sahel we've only carried 3 Litres per person per day and that was for all purposes.

Ach, what do I know. I'm just a pilgrim

 

[Albertagirl]

I think that there may be an assumption that people need only drink water when they are thirsty. From what I have heard, this is not accurate, and it certainly is not so in my case. I have never actually run out of water, although I have run short, But generally I have become dehydrated when not really thirsty and with some water in my bottles. I believe that this is more common with older persons and I had no problem with dehydration when I was younger. That this happened with me on two caminos in sequence has made me much more careful than in the past. I do not wish to contradict anyone, but I think it would be kind to suggest that pilgrims assure their supply of water and drink adequately, as I believe that dehydration is much more common than hyponatremia, certainly on the pilgrim routes. Probably I should also be thinking about carrying salts, to ensure that I have adequate minerals etc. in the water which I drink.

 

[Tincatinker]

@Albertagirl you are right in that many in the early stages of dehydration do not feel thirsty, much as many heading in to hypo-thermic shock will start to shed clothing because they feel over-heated. And you are right that that hyponatremia is a rare presentation in this modern age but I've encountered two, happily non-lethal, instances. Not on Camino but in inexperienced hiking groups. On both occasions the sufferers were accused of inebriation. Electrolyte depletion from excessive sweating and excessive hydration is also a threat to health but these are all relatively rare manifestations - even on the Meseta in August thankfully.

Not sure how a didactic post about pack-weight got to hydration debate that could go that way too

(Edit: can't find the "blush" emoji - maybe I should :0))

 

[Helen1]

My sister and I had a lot of people make negative comments about our packs when we last walked the camino and it was incredibly rude and judgemental. Why anyone else needs to judge others at all or feel that their experience trumps other peoples (who may be just as, or more, experienced than they are) is beyond me. They also had no idea what our packs actually weighed, they just thought they'd give their opinion regardless.

Very true. I've experienced this myself and although people's comments are often well intentioned it's tiring to be constantly on the receiving end of comments like this. My rebellious streak makes me inclined to carry something outrageously huge and unnecessary to just upset these people even more should I ever walk a CF again .

Walking from Sarria to Santiago over 7-10 days is very different to walking for a month+. If you're going for a week I would keep it light but I wouldn't stress about weight too much. If you're walking for longer then, as you say, weight becomes more important.

As a women who sleeps cold I'm not sure about the sleeping bag advice. It's the one thing where I took the forum advice rather than trusting my own judgement and it didn't work for me. I'm sure your advice is right for most men but many women need a bit more warmth. Even in August I was quite happy with my sleeping bag.

 

[dougfitz]

Dougfitz, I am 6' and weigh 195 lbs. As to fluid consumption, on the Camino Frances I carried a small plastic bottle (8 oz) that I would periodically sip from between bars or fountains. I walked in June in both 2016 and 2018, and there were some hot days. I tended to drink a lot of water in the morning before departing, and then simply stopped along the way for more water as well as other drinks, especially Coca-Cola's which I actually despise and never drink. Except on the Camino. They just taste so damn good there. And, yes, I do get that there is a multiplicity of factors regarding pack weight, which is why I tend to hover around the 12-15 lb goal. I fully acknowledge that all this is just my opinion, and based solely on my experience and observations. I knew this would cause a stir. But after my early wilderness days of hauling a 45 lb Kelty external frame pack with 30 days of freeze dried food for extended hikes in the Sierra Nevada, I have embraced going light--not with the zeal of ultra-light thru hikers--but simply as a practical matter. Even carrying 15 lbs, I can feel the effect/force of that weight on my foot fall. Again, as I think I have repeatedly stated, the idea was to simply provide more specific guidance to those who become enchanted with the idea of an extended Camino walk, but without previous backpacking experience. Although bodies are built in a range of structures and physical conditioning varies greatly among Pilgrims, there are some fundamental principles--fundamental principles which lead me to believe that 95% of those walking the Camino Frances would benefit with a pack weight of 15 lbs or less. And to complete my suicide leap from the parapet . . . well, as is pointed out, it's just my opinion.

@Bob Howard, thank you very much for this. I have tried to reverse engineer your advice for a 12 lb load against the pack volume calculation from The Complete Walker IV (an online version is available here). I can discuss the details of doing this, but suffice to say that I could only get to make this work by using the most extreme settings for Resilience (sleeps naked on bedrock, hikes barefoot, eats small animals raw) gear type (ultralight) and season (summer). It is marginal in spring/autumn, but could just work. I don't think that this is representative of pilgrims generally, let alone the first-timers you appear to be targeting with your advice. I would also suggest that expecting first-timers to invest heavily in ultralight gear, rather than make sufficient lightweight gear purchases to manage their first walk, is unrealistic.

On staying re-hydrated, I had expected that you might have either measured your total fluid consumption or had a reasonable idea what volume you consumed daily. I know that when I have taken the time to take simple measures of starting and ending weight, in activity consumption, etc that when walking in warm conditions I need 700-1000 ml for each walking hour.

I recently confirmed this while doing a longer walk with a friend. Daytime temperatures ranged from about 10 degC in the morning to maximums in the mid 20s. My consumption was pretty regular with about 500 ml/hour during the day with the remainder consumed in the morning and evening. Our longest day was 10 hours, covered by carrying just under 3 li at the start of the day and collecting 1.8 li from a cache we had established beforehand. For shorter days we had established caches/water points at our daily end points. Of course, this is nothing like the conditions of the Camino, but is one way of dealing with walking in rural Australia.

While I know people who, like you, don't drink much during the walking day, they also have substantial fluid intakes, mainly in the evening. I cannot do that, and prefer to sip regularly enough to avoid feeling thirsty. That can be a bit hit and miss, but the approach is generally consistent with good hydration practice. I don't think one should be moving too far from that when giving advice on staying hydrated.

Doug

ps the description of resilience is the one used by Fletcher and Rawlins in The Complete Walker IV, not something I created for literary effect.

 

[Bob Howard]

@Bob Howard, thank you very much for this. I have tried to reverse engineer your advice for a 12 lb load against the pack volume calculation from The Complete Walker IV (an online version is available here). I can discuss the details of doing this, but suffice to say that I could only get to make this work by using the most extreme settings for Resilience (sleeps naked on bedrock, hikes barefoot, eats small animals raw) gear type (ultralight) and season (summer). It is marginal in spring/autumn, but could just work. I don't think that this is representative of pilgrims generally, let alone the first-timers you appear to be targeting with your advice. I would also suggest that expecting first-timers to invest heavily in ultralight gear, rather than make sufficient lightweight gear purchases to manage their first walk, is unrealistic.

On staying re-hydrated, I had expected that you might have either measured your total fluid consumption or had a reasonable idea what volume you consumed daily. I know that when I have taken the time to take simple measures of starting and ending weight, in activity consumption, etc that when walking in warm conditions I need 700-1000 ml for each walking hour.

I recently confirmed this while doing a longer walk with a friend. Daytime temperatures ranged from about 10 degC in the morning to maximums in the mid 20s. My consumption was pretty regular with about 500 ml/hour during the day with the remainder consumed in the morning and evening. Our longest day was 10 hours, covered by carrying just under 3 li at the start of the day and collecting 1.8 li from a cache we had established beforehand. For shorter days we had established caches/water points at our daily end points. Of course, this is nothing like the conditions of the Camino, but is one way of dealing with walking in rural Australia.

While I know people who, like you, don't drink much during the walking day, they also have substantial fluid intakes, mainly in the evening. I cannot do that, and prefer to sip regularly enough to avoid feeling thirsty. That can be a bit hit and miss, but it is generally consistent with good hydration practice. I don't think one should be moving too far from that when giving advice on staying hydrated.

Doug

ps the description of resilience is the one used by Fletcher and Rawlins in The Complete Walker IV, not something I have created for literary effect.

Well, you've caused me to think about how much I actually drink during the day. I would imagine it is the equivalent of two+ liters over a 5-6 hour walking period. Inasmuch as I tend to stop for a drink or snack 6-10 times during the walk, it subjectively feels like I am always sipping on something. Also, I tend to leave early (6:00-6:30) and get in to the next overnight burg between 1:00 and 2:00. I drink a lot of water in the morning, and probably drink a liter between arrival and sleeping. So, I don't think I'm drinking significantly less than the average Pilgrim-- I'm just not carrying much. Regarding dehydration, I definitely monitor it on wilderness trips. Urination frequency and color, as you probably know, is a good indication of hydration vs. dehydration. I guess my overall point is that maybe these ultra-light wildnerness hikers know something we don't. Going light means going faster and longer. But more importantly to me, it means walking in comfort. By the way, I haven't quite reached the 12 lb goal myself. Last summer, I think I was at 14 lbs. 1.5 lbs of that was a good pair of closed toed hiking sandals--a splurge I suppose, but I like having a backup walking shoe for the evening of course but also for those times when the feet just need to be free. Also, I carry an iPad mini in addition to a phone, so there's another 11 oz for the iPad. So, I could get down to 7 kgs without the hiking sandals and iPad, but those are two things I like and want. Last June, walking between Roncevalles and Zubiri I caught up with a woman who was obviously struggling. She was carrying what appeared to be about a 60-70 liter pack, although it was not full. Hanging off the back of the pack among assorted danglements were her hiking boots--high top conventional hiking boots. She was barely 5 miles into her Camino when she had to switch to alternative footwear, which, in her case, was flip-flops. The pain and stress in her countenance as she realized there was already a serious problem on the first day was palpable, and heart-breaking. Just from the feel, I think her pack weight was about 25 lbs. I offered to trade packs with her, and we would exchange them in Zubiri. She had a lot of pride, and determination, and was determined to carryon without assistance. I did not see her in Zubiri, or for the rest of the Camino. Hopefully, she simply adjusted her walking to a pace that worked for her, and, presumably, weeded out some of her pack contents. Although I might seem strident and opinionated here, out in the field I would not presume to critique another's gear. I am pretty good with blister treatment, and I carry a comprehenive blister kit, and occasionally offer to help with blisters. But it seems to me that this is a place--here on the forum--where newbies can explore, and where we can express our opinions freely. Again, all of you that have commented are experienced hikers, trekkers, backpackers or repeat Camino Pilgrims. You know what you doing.

It seems to that the one place we could provide meaningful input to an inexperienced about to be newly minted pilgrim is to offer some guidance regarding the two most important pieces of gear that will have a direct effect on whether the one reaches Santiago--shoes and pack.

 

[Dorpie]

It seems to that the one place we could provide meaningful input to an inexperienced about to be newly minted pilgrim is to offer some guidance regarding the two most important pieces of gear that will have a direct effect on whether the one reaches Santiago--shoes and pack.

Great. Now all we need to do is find two pilgrims who agree on what that advice should be

 

[Bradypus]

Great. Now all we need to do is find two pilgrims who agree on what that advice should be

That's one of the biggest problems with asking practical questions on a forum like this. Ask a seemingly innocuous question about something as elementary as footwear and you can have dozens of conflicting answers. Most of them probably quite sensible in themselves and reflecting the personal experience of the person who has replied. So how does the genuinely inexperienced and undecided questioner choose from all this contradictory mass of words? I tend not to respond to requests for recommendations of specific models of equipment, packing lists and suggestions for daily stages on a route precisely because I know that my own choices are often atypical and that others with less experience might regret following my lead. I would certainly not presume to make any grand unequivocal pronouncement that because I have chosen one particular option and found it works then all others can and should do likewise.

 

[Gabe_Way]

My sister and I had a lot of people make negative comments about our packs when we last walked the camino and it was incredibly rude and judgemental. Why anyone else needs to judge others at all or feel that their experience trumps other peoples (who may be just as, or more, experienced than they are) is beyond me. They also had no idea what our packs actually weighed, they just thought they'd give their opinion regardless.

And didn't you girls respond accordingly? Like for example: 'Mind your damn business?' and so on...

 

[stevelm1]

I carried 35 pounds with water. On average I carried 2 liters of water but had a 3 L bladder that I filled to the top only one day (the 17 K stretch after Carrion. Why did I carry so much weight? I had a tablet (I captured over 70000 words on the walk) and a bunch of medical supplies that I could not get along the way. I trained for 10 months for that weight and had no problem carrying it. To make a blanket statement of how much one should carry does not take into account circumstances that may not be within your experience. Whatever weight you end up carrying you should train for it. That is the secret, not the weight itself.

 

[englishstu]

I haven't been on the Camino but done several thousand miles hiking some of the worlds best trails.
Although I started out with fairly lightweight gear, however I have honed down to a base weight of around 6kg; that is including a shelter (TarpTent Notch), sleeping gear etc but not counting food and water; with three days of that I am around 9kg. I weigh around 65 kg.
Think very carefully when buying gear, buy cheap buy twice is so true.
I have never heard anyone say I do wish I had carried more.
I also think I know which pack a Newbie would pick before starting a hike given the option of two packs in front of them; one weighing 10kg another 20kg.
A good fitting pack for your body is essential. I use ZPacks ArcBlast 21.3 oz, but mine is about 30oz as I have added hip belt pockets and shoulder strap pockets - for ease of access for a water bottle, suncream, first aid kit, poop kit, mini toiletries package.

 

[Laliibeans]

And didn't you girls respond accordingly? Like for example: 'Mind your damn business?' and so on...

We generally tried to give a polite "We know what we're doing, thanks." Most people were okay with it but I wish I could shake the memory of a particularly snarky pilgrim office volunteer. It was not a kind send off and still irks me years later!

 

[Deleted member 61803]

The matter of carrying water on the Camino Frances has actually been covered by a few posters and ignored by others.
There are plenty of places in general to drink often and refill small bottles regularly. The places that are sparse of water are mentioned in a number of guides. In which case extra water can be carried over a comparitivly short distance in the overall walk. I carry a small water filter, ( especially as a few fountains carry the non potable warning, and there are plenty of streams) which on my last camino was used once to filter water for a family with very young children in pushchairs who had no water at all half way through the first day. I drank enough so that I could actually give them my water bottle and hoped for the best for them.

In short I agree with the OP.

Packs as light as possible, footwear to suit you personally, and whatever rucksack you use make sure it fits. Oh and loads of practice with gear. Get your back and legs fit for purpose.

 

[Anhalter]

Personally, i do agree with OP.
I did my first camino with a starting weight of 5.7kg. Including everythin i was wearing. Excluding water.
So thats about just over 4kg on my back.
Then in Burgos i sent home around 700g of stuff i just was not using.
Still, i had everything i needed for my everyday life plus some added luxuries.
And yes, it was my first long distance hike ever.

Certainly, i will not dispute anyones right to carry whatever they want. If you feel you need to take 8kg or 10kg or whatever, that is your personal right.

However, i will dispute the claim of people stating that they just can not get their pack weight into single digits or that going light is costing a lot of money. I did buy practically everything new for my camino, most of it from Decathlon. Only expensive items was my backpack (~160€) and my sleeping bag (~300€). Switching them for something cheaper might ad 500g, but thats about it.

I met ladies on the way, whose toiletry bag weighed almost as much as my backpack. I met guys carrying tents and cooking kits they where not using (on the CF). And yes, if you dont want to wash every day and for that reason carry cloth for a week, totally fine, but don't complain about the weight of your pack or the blisters on your feet.

Of course, there will be the occasional person that for whatever reason needs to carry additional stuff. Medical reasons for example. Or being big. In my very personal opinion however, a lot of people just don't distinguish enough between what they need to bring and what they want to bring.

 

[Deleted member 43985]

I agree that lowering the weight you carry is important but really dislike seeing anyone say that no one needs ________ or there is no reason to _________. Fact of the matter is that I don’t believe the person who says this has actually gotten to know ‘everyone’ or understood ‘everyone's’ needs.

overall there is simply no need to carry 2-4 lbs of water. It just ain't necessary.

I realize that few venture out in the winter months but water can be a much bigger issue in winter than you seem to understand. For example, I walked from Pamplona to Puenta la Reina and could not find a single working fountain (shut down so pipes wouldn’t freeze and burst) nor a single open store. Over Alto del Perdon I had to suck on snow to try and get some hydration in me. Not a good hiking practice but on the Camino it was an acceptable risk. There were many other days when this happened but after that day I carried a minimum 2 litres and any time a store was open I reloaded.

A 35L pack is big enough for everyone, irrespective of body weight

Again, without knowing someone, telling a person new to hiking/Camino, you will do some people a real injustice. For example, I cannot wear a pack less that 50litres comfortably and ensuring the weight goes to my hips. I am 6’3” and very long in the body (compared to long in the leg) and not small in the midsection. I have tried a great many packs across all major North American sold brands and not a single 35L pack fit me. 40L was close but not ideal so in the end, a 50L is the only good alternative for me. Short of spending $350-$450 on a dyneema pack, my packs weigh in the area of 5lbs. In the future I hope you will consider this when telling someone what they must do. For me your definitive statements are irrelevant but for someone who is new and may be sensitive about their weight or other specific challenge, your statement is simply insensitive and unneeded in a kind-spirited, community forum.

 

[Marbe2]

I enjoyed the post! First with regards to water, I learned when I was younger, studying in Austria, to always carry a water reserve when hiking. Always arrive with about a half liter of water in reserve. I follow this advice faithfully. I also carry pills to chemically treat water if we would wind up in an emergency situation. The pills weigh nothing.

Before, we depart in the morning, I always drink at least a half liter of water...hydrating before one walks is always a good idea!.... Then I drink another half liter within the first hour. I do not carry a specific amount of water each day. There have been very hot days, when I have carried 3.5 liters to go 8 km - but it was so hot we needed extra water to cool our heads and hats. I have hiked the CF in winter, only to find the bar closd in a small town, that was supposed to be open, resulting in us having to walk another 6-7 kms without another water source. Fortunately we still had 2 liters left. In addition, I always carry a few pills for emergency water treatment. We can make 5-10 liters of water, if we ever need to do so. They weigh nothing. If you are traveling alone in isolated area, or off times, do consider doing so.

We also carry some powdered boullion packets, which easily dissolve in water. And is a geat source of salt and very light as well. Somtimes we add the chicken boullion powder to the pilgrm menu to give the dish a bit more flavor.

With regard to weight - I watched many videos on this website where pilgrims posted their caminos and I was surprised at how many first time walkers had not practiced walking with their packs before beginning their caminos in SJPdP and inevitably wound up with hot spots and then blisters. They were carrying too much weight, and walking too fast. For some walkers the extra weight in the backpack, lack of preparation and walking too fast ends their caminos early! I do agree that 10% of body weight may be too much to to carry for many...but it is up to the pilgrim to prepare. That is something many of us try to emphasize.

 

[Deleted member 61803]

Just in case anyone else finds the need to suck on snow for hydration purposes, just be wary and Never suck on yellow snow.

 

[henrythedog]

Personally, i do agree with OP.
I did my first camino with a starting weight of 5.7kg. Including everythin i was wearing. Excluding water.
So thats about just over 4kg on my back.
Then in Burgos i sent home around 700g of stuff i just was not using.
Still, i had everything i needed for my everyday life plus some added luxuries.
And yes, it was my first long distance hike ever.

Certainly, i will not dispute anyones right to carry whatever they want. If you feel you need to take 8kg or 10kg or whatever, that is your personal right.

However, i will dispute the claim of people stating that they just can not get their pack weight into single digits or that going light is costing a lot of money. I did buy practically everything new for my camino, most of it from Decathlon. Only expensive items was my backpack (~160€) and my sleeping bag (~300€). Switching them for something cheaper might ad 500g, but thats about it.

I met ladies on the way, whose toiletry bag weighed almost as much as my backpack. I met guys carrying tents and cooking kits they where not using (on the CF). And yes, if you dont want to wash every day and for that reason carry cloth for a week, totally fine, but don't complain about the weight of your pack or the blisters on your feet.

Of course, there will be the occasional person that for whatever reason needs to carry additional stuff. Medical reasons for example. Or being big. In my very personal opinion however, a lot of people just don't distinguish enough between what they need to bring and what they want to bring.

4Kg including the sack?

Would you share your list?

 

[Anhalter]

4Kg including the sack?

Would you share your list?

I'll see if i can translate it to english in the upcoming days and will share it. Problem atm is, i dont have my washbag weighed in and dont have the items currently so there will be some "guesstimation".
For the pack, i used a Murmur. One of the lighter ones out there (360g).
However, i changed to a slightly heavier pack, which comes to 500g, but is more comfortable and more waterproof. My Packlist for the planned Primivo comes to 3,5kg on paper (backpack weight), but then i have to add some medication and some luxury items, so it'll be most likely slightly above 4kg.

edit: not perfect translation, but something:

 

[Mad Manx]

I hate sweeping comments especially on something that I believe is personal choice.
I have history of scouting/military, winter mountain rescue and now work as frontline medic. This has made me a little OCD on being prepared and safe.
Our past experiences help to mould us.
I am 52 year’s old 6’2” and weigh in at 106kgs. My fist Camino Saria to Santiago de Compostela,my pack weight was 22kgs plus the 3lt of water and food for my partner and I.
It was too much, I carried it every day 8 to 10 hrs a day,my partner wasn’t as fit as me and had plantar fasciitis, which made her slow.
I carried it without complaint and on one day I carried her 10kg pack for 2hrs till we could get it forwarded on.
Our second Camino the Portugues costal route I got my pack weight down to 16 kg plus the water and food for two.
We hoped to go again last year, but Covid has prevented it and possibly will this year.
I have got my new waterproof Ortlieb backpack down to 12kg.
That I think is as light as I dare to go but I will deconstruct it after our next Camino and see what I don’t use and re asses.
My points are Camino is a learning experience of mind and body.
It’s as they say your Camino and you do it your way and you learn from it and grow from it.

 

[BookGirl305]

I am enjoying this thread because I am a first time hiker, first time backpacker, and getting ready to walk. I have gotten so much good information from the forum, but sometimes the "expectation" can be overwhelming. I linked into a "see what's in my 5 kilo backpack" and- wow. The dude... everything is a super expensive, lightweight item. The backpack recommended was smaller than a child's school backpack- not really realistic. It's entirely possible he may have had a lot of stuff strapped to the outside instead of inside a larger pack. Every item of clothing was merino wool ($$$).

The other part about the shoes? I tried trail runners and my feet hurt horribly. I switched after trial and error to the Oboz Sawtooth II hiking shoe and I'm good to go. I got an Osprey Kyte 36L bag. The REI lady said the 46 fit better but she wouldn't sell it to me- she said as a newbie, my instinct would be to fill it with more stuff so it would be irresponsible to sell me that one. I have a 16oz thinsulate quilt and a 9oz memory foam pillow. I tried (and sent back) the inflatable pillow- it kept crackling like a chip bag. I have been training with my bag, the pillow and quilt, and two 4 pound sugar bags in ziplocs. That gives me a total of 13 pounds/5.9kg all in (backpack 3, quilt 1, pillow .5, and 8 pounds training weight). I am weighing out my stuff tomorrow as my family thinks I'm underestimating. We'll see LOL. How much can an Academy sporting goods nylon shirt weigh? If I decide that one one-week trip isn't enough, I can upgrade later, but going least weight is more expensive than I can afford. I could send my backpack ahead for the full week for less than half the price of one of those merino shirts.

 

[C clearly]

The dude... everything is a super expensive, lightweight item.

I have... a 9oz memory foam pillow.

Does he have a pillow in his 5 kg?

I'm not saying you shouldn't take your pillow. I'm just pointing out that the cost of merino shirts might not be the only factor causing the weight difference. It will be interesting to see your item by item weights tomorrow.

I hope the Osprey Kyte still fits you really well. The newbie urge to overpack can be controlled (hopefully), but the fit and comfort of the pack can't easily be changed!

 

[Bob Howard]

I am enjoying this thread because I am a first time hiker, first time backpacker, and getting ready to walk. I have gotten so much good information from the forum, but sometimes the "expectation" can be overwhelming. I linked into a "see what's in my 5 kilo backpack" and- wow. The dude... everything is a super expensive, lightweight item. The backpack recommended was smaller than a child's school backpack- not really realistic. It's entirely possible he may have had a lot of stuff strapped to the outside instead of inside a larger pack. Every item of clothing was merino wool ($$$).

The other part about the shoes? I tried trail runners and my feet hurt horribly. I switched after trial and error to the Oboz Sawtooth II hiking shoe and I'm good to go. I got an Osprey Kyte 36L bag. The REI lady said the 46 fit better but she wouldn't sell it to me- she said as a newbie, my instinct would be to fill it with more stuff so it would be irresponsible to sell me that one. I have a 16oz thinsulate quilt and a 9oz memory foam pillow. I tried (and sent back) the inflatable pillow- it kept crackling like a chip bag. I have been training with my bag, the pillow and quilt, and two 4 pound sugar bags in ziplocs. That gives me a total of 13 pounds/5.9kg all in (backpack 3, quilt 1, pillow .5, and 8 pounds training weight). I am weighing out my stuff tomorrow as my family thinks I'm underestimating. We'll see LOL. How much can an Academy sporting goods nylon shirt weigh? If I decide that one one-week trip isn't enough, I can upgrade later, but going least weight is more expensive than I can afford. I could send my backpack ahead for the full week for less than half the price of one of those merino shirts.

BookGirl305, if you can keep your weight to 13 lbs on your first serious backpack carrying walk/hike/Camino, then are are well within the ballpark. I've been at it for 50+ years, and I'm currently at 12 lbs. Frankly, if every Newbie could keep under 15 lbs, they would have taken a giant step towards a comfortable first Camino. The collective wisdom on this board is astounding--there are any number of Camino veterans who would gladly have a look at your packlist (including individual item weights), and offer suggestions/guidance. But, again, at 13 lbs (having never backpacked before) for a weeklong walk, you are doing great. Nevertheless, even a pound shaved off your current pack weight will make a difference in how it feels. More importantly, our hips, knees and feet are always happier with less weight.

 

[trecile]

I have a 16oz thinsulate quilt and a 9oz memory foam pillow.

Are you taking the pillow, and why?

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I agree with Trecile and curious...why take the pillow? I have never encountered any albergue that did not provide a "relatively" comfortable pillow for each bed.

 

[Vacajoe]

I’m very “pillow picky” and yet found all the various albergue pillows quite nice! Be sure to bring a large pillowcase, though, as European pillows are shaped differently than US ones.

 

[Former member 99290]

This post reminded me of something I’d forgotten. … on my second camino,I took a thermarest travel pillow, not because Albergues and casas didn’t have pillows but because I had suffered from a pinched nerve in my neck for some time before leaving. I had a larger version of same at home which was the only way I could sleep comfortably.

I’ve never had to take it again, but I was SO glad I did that time. It didn’t weigh too much and, with some effort, I could fold it down to quite a small size in a compression bag each morning.

 

[legless]

I agree with Trecile and curious...why take the pillow? I have never encountered any albergue that did not provide a "relatively" comfortable pillow for each bed.

Thanks for this, I've been searching the forum trying to find out if albergues provide pillows or if I needed to take one, and here is that information

 

[Mad Manx]

I have the same problem with my neck and I always travel with a 1/4 size travel memory pillow.
I also have a training rucksack with 20kgs in it .
I could probably get another 2 kg of my pack if I left it my first aid kit blister clinic kit and my bag repair kit but for my peace of mind I’ll leave it as it is.

 

[Anhalter]

@BookGirl305 since "that dude" might have been me i feel like adding a thing or two.
(i walked my first camino with a pack weight of around 4kg using a 350g backpack)

• you actually don't need a lot of volume. As little as 20L (internal) might be enough. In fact, with frameless packs, you want to have a tight fit since thats the one thing to give your pack some rigidity (and this was my main problem with my 28L (internal) pack: it was to big for what i was carrying).
• When i was "test-packing" i was surprised to fit all my clothing into a 4L drysack. But it was cramped thus i used a 8L one. So lets say i have 8L worth of clothing. My sleeping bag (which is crazy expensive, i'll come to that) compresses as far as 1.5L. But down should not be comrpessed that intensely over longer periods i used a 4L drysack (that i didnt need for clothing anymore). Then i had a 1L ziploc bag with my toiletries, another 1L with electronics (mostly empty) and another 1L for pilgrims passport and diary. So added together i had 15L of different bags inside my backpack, each with room to spare. Add some Flipflops and a personal item or two and you might be approaching 20L... And then you can still put things on the outside of the pack. I liked having my rain gear there for obvious reasons as well as my medical kit (which i won't bring again, i'll come to that)
• Expensiveness of items is of course an issue. Theres one item i would never compromise on: Shoes. If 30€ shoes work for you, get them, if it's 300€, get them. For me trailrunners work perfectly but if it's something else for you, go for it. Feet are the single most important thing on the camino. Everything else, compromises can be made. I feel that spending serious money on a sleeping bag helps, since nothing synthetic comes close to down in regards of weight and volume. But a cheaper can work too. Same goes for the backpack. A rather expensive one (mine was 165€) might have a nice feature or perform slightly better, but theres perfectly viable options out there for as little as 35€ for a sub-500g backpack.
• Merino does neither have to be crazy expensive nor does it save you weight. I own a couple of Shirts and Longsleeves from Decathlon. They work remarkably well and cost between 20€ and 30€ (sometimes less due to a sale). On my CF i used a more expensive brand. But honestly, i am not sure if that extra money spent was worth it.
  As to the saving of weight: A synthetic piece of clothing will do just as fine at a comparable weight. You might smell a bit more, but thats about it.
• Regarding why i won't bring a first aid kit and many other "piece of mind" items (as @Mad Manx calls them) is simple: i don't feel i need them. Most common issues do not develop suddenly. A blister does announce itself (the you can buy a blister kit at the next shop) or a backpack does not critcally fail from one second to another. If for exmaple a seem does come lose or a tear does start forming, you can still get to the next place where you can get help or repairs. Even if not, theres about a billion other pilgrims and from my limited experience about every third or so carries extensive "just in case" items.
  So the only "emergency" items i will bring to my next CF will be a bandaid or two, some leukotape and a few remedies (just enough to get me to the next pharmacy). Yes, theres the off chance of something more serious happening. But then there are taxis or ambulances.

Hopefully this doesn't come as harsh, we Germans sometimes do and it is not my intention. It is of course my personal opinion and everyone is entitled to have a different one (however it is difficult for me to accept 20kg backpacks )
Would love to discuss it further, so if anything is left unclear, just ask.

 

[David Tallan]

I agree with Trecile and curious...why take the pillow? I have never encountered any albergue that did not provide a "relatively" comfortable pillow for each bed.

When I stayed at the often recommended donativo albergue in Grañon (mats on the floor as beds), no pillows were provided. Granted, that was one night out of forty-one.

 

[BookGirl305]

It wasn't you
There are a lot of folks that have posted a link to their blog with their lists. Add in the ones found by Papa Google and it's the sifting through and not taking any one person's word as gospel (except maybe Dave Bugg on backpacks). Folks use a lot of different terminology- I'm going with weight on my back before food and water.

Someone asked why a pillow? I'm a princess and have a very hard time sleeping in hotels if I don't like the pillow, so I'm fairly sure I wouldn't like the ones in the albergues. This one is a memory foam that rolls up into itself by Thermarest. I didn't care for any of the inflatable ones. They all crinkled.

On the larger backpack they wouldn't sell me and did I get a good one after that- yup. The 36L Kyte fits me at about 95%. My newbie inclination is to tighten everything down to where nothing has a gap, but that has produced rounded shoulders and tired muscles so still working on that. I walk at about 4.5km/hour without the pack and 3.5km an hour with it. Last summer I was up to 20km a day (no pack) and 10km with it before I had to cancel and then got an attitude problem, so I am rebuilding now.

 

[BookGirl305]

I wasn't too far off after all!
Total on my back:14.6 pounds/6.6kg (plus food and water)
backpack: 3 pounds
Sleeping quilt and pillow: 1 pound 9oz
stuff I think I need: 9.8 pounds
I am practicing with a training weight of the stuff I think I need at 8 pounds, so now I need to either lose 2 pounds of stuff or train for 2 pounds more, and I have a few months to figure that out. It doesn't need to be tonight.
Thanks for the encouragement!