Overstayed 90 days? From UK?

[SushiNinja]

I'm English and I'm thinking about overstaying my 90 day limit by 2 or 3 days, flying out of Santiago...(this is so I can squeeze in a stint as a volunteer hospitalero).
Anyone have experience of this? What happened? Wrist-slap? Fine? Not allowed to go back ever?
TIA, Cole

 

[C clearly]

I think it is a foolish thing to deliberately do, no matter what experience others might have had.

 

[timr]

No experience. And I am happy to remain a citizen of the EU, so don't need to give it any serious thought. But if i were going to do what you suggest, I wouldn't announce it in a public place! It would be hard to say it had happened by accident thereafter.

 

[Tincatinker]

I'm English and I'm thinking about overstaying my 90 day limit by 2 or 3 days, flying out of Santiago...(this is so I can squeeze in a stint as a volunteer hospitalero).
Anyone have experience of this? What happened? Wrist-slap? Fine? Not allowed to go back ever?
TIA, Cole

https://www.eeas.europa.eu/sites/default/files/visa_waiver_faqs_en.pdf

Paragraph 14 applies. The most likely result is that you would be obliged to apply for a visa to re-enter the Schengen zone rather than rely on the 90/180 day visa waiver.

 

[trecile]

The most likely result is that you would be obliged to apply for a visa to re-enter the Schengen zone rather than rely on the 90/180 day visa waiver.

Sounds like a self inflicted pain in the...

And there's no guarantees - you could be turned down for a visa.

 

[Kathor1]

Anyone have experience of this? What happened? Wrist-slap? Fine? Not allowed to go back ever?

Oooh, I just can't resist putting in my 2 eurocents' worth.

First of all, I'd not go by anyone's past experience but even if I would, I'd only go by recent experience of leaving the Santiago airport for the UK and not any other airport or any other EU Schengen country ... I have limited experience of Santiago airport and their staff and I have left it only as an EU passport holder. They seemed to have a lot of time on their hands at that airport.

The EU is planning to introduce their EES (Entry/Exit) system soon. It was scheduled for May 2023 but now it has been postponed to the end of the year and maybe it will be postponed again. Once in place, every non-EU passport that gets controlled under this new system will be signalled when it belongs to an overstayer. You have been informed now ...

There are no common EU-wide sanctions for Schengen overstayers. It is up to each participating country how and if they handle them.

 

[henrythedog]

I'm English and I'm thinking about overstaying my 90 day limit by 2 or 3 days, flying out of Santiago...(this is so I can squeeze in a stint as a volunteer hospitalero).
Anyone have experience of this? What happened? Wrist-slap? Fine? Not allowed to go back ever?
TIA, Cole

Surprisingly there is no integrated Schengen-wide system for aggregating your time in the zone. It relies on someone looking through your passport and adding up the days manually.

If the 92 or 3 days comprises multiple visits within a rolling 180 day period, there’s a chance you’ll get away with it. On exiting the zone all anyone’s ever done with me is look for my last entry stamp. If it’s from another country the conversation may have lasted ten seconds not the usual one.

If, however, it’s one continuous stay of over 90 days in my opinion you’re very probably stuffed.

It was bad enough (in my opinion) to lose the right to free travel throughout Europe; to give up the 90/180 privilege would be reckless indeed (again in my opinion) . Border guards are selected from those who didn’t have a sufficient sense of humour to join the tax office.

I know you’re looking for experience of someone who has done what you’re proposing, and I haven’t.

Do let us know how it goes.

 

[Former member 92300]

Not worth it in my opinion either... why purposely break the law and disobey a rule you clearly are aware of and risk getting fined or losing your ability to go back whenever you would normally be allowed to return. If all you are considering is adding 2-3 days beyond, isn't there anyway you could adjust your schedule so that you don't NEED to go beyond? Little things you can do - leave the UK on the earliest flight possible so you have as close to a full day in your arrival country as possible. For example, arriving at 9am would mean you have around 12 hours of daylight to start your day. Likewise, take the latest departing flight you can... so if you leave at 6pm you could maximize your last day there before departing to head home. Right there you maximized 2 travel days to still allow you to maximize those days in your destination country. Instead of rest days, you can do short days so you are still making progress towards your final destination. You could also hike a few long days to help get you towards your final destination withing the time constraints you have. Anyhow - if you make itinerary adjustments, there really shouldn't be a reason to go beyond your 90 days of allowable travel time in the EU. I am doing these kinds of things to ensure I get from Canterbury to Aosta in the limited number of days I have before I have to return to the US to return to work. I could have stopped sooner and walked a shorter distance, but I wanted to get through the Alps because I know when I return to finish the Via Francigena I won't be able to walk across the Alps due to the likelihood of too much snow before the summer thaw.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I read one story by an American businessman who spent time in the Schengen zone and then spent more time there in Poland (a Schengen member) and he exceeded the 90 day limit. He was using an exception to the Schengen rules that Poland had for Americans that predated the Schengen agreement. So when he flew out of Poland his overstay was legal. Unfortunately for him his flight landed for a bit in Switzerland and he was fined for overstaying and marked for no admittance for a good period of time. Since his career relied on doing business in the EU he had to spend lots of money on lawyers to get back to his old status.

 

[FSP]

I have to wonder given the following information copied off a government website and your proximity to Spain / Schengen countries why not just get a visa to stay over. It's not a hard process.

If you leave the Schengen area and return within the same 180-day period, the previous stay will count against the permitted 90 days.

If you plan to stay for longer than 90 days in any 180-day period, you must contact the high commission or embassy of the country or countries to which you are travelling and obtain the appropriate visa before you travel. If you do not obtain the appropriate visa and you stay longer than the permitted 90 days in the Schengen area, you may be fined or deported.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

I'm English and I'm thinking about overstaying my 90 day limit by 2 or 3 days, flying out of Santiago...(this is so I can squeeze in a stint as a volunteer hospitalero).
Anyone have experience of this? What happened? Wrist-slap? Fine? Not allowed to go back ever?
TIA, Cole

No personal experience, but one thing that might happen is you might not be allowed back into Spain.

 

[Kathor1]

The online newspaper "The Local ES" has an up to date article on this topic. This newspaper is pretty well informed and geared to the UK market - both British visitors to Spain and British residents in Spain. The article, dated 11 Feb 2023, is behind a paywall - you may or may not be able to access it: EXPLAINED: What happens if you overstay your 90 day limit in Spain?

 

[AnaRosario]

I think it is a foolish thing to deliberately do, no matter what experience others might have had.

Agreed

 

[urbanmamma]

Apply for a longer stay visa with the Spanish embassy. This may be made easier with your volunteer work in an albergue.

 

[RussB]

Sounds like a terrible idea, why risk potentially significant personal consequences ?

 

[aussieredhat]

I have heard that a passport will be tagged & when re entering on the next trip in EU or Spain there maybe repercussions .

 

[gregrobinson]

I'm English and I'm thinking about overstaying my 90 day limit by 2 or 3 days, flying out of Santiago...(this is so I can squeeze in a stint as a volunteer hospitalero).
Anyone have experience of this? What happened? Wrist-slap? Fine? Not allowed to go back ever?
TIA, Cole

I wouldn't do it without checking first. They may have a longer tourist visa they could issue if you do it in advance.

 

[mario juan]

Bottom line is,, nobody has experienced this.. if you do go ahead and break the rules please let us know the outcome..

 

[William H B Mawhinney]

Can you get an Irish Passport?? that might help ?

 

[wayfarer]

Can you get an Irish Passport?? that might help ?

I'm sure there could be an Irish granny or something if she searched hard enough.

 

[trecile]

Can you get an Irish Passport?? that might help ?

I'm sure there could be an Irish granny or something if she searched hard enough.

It could take a while to apply for and receive though.

 

[wayfarer]

It could take a while to apply for and receive though.

With the backlog here for passports at the moment it could be a while all right.

 

[Katherine Radeka]

I wouldn’t take the risk, personally. I travel a lot to the EU for business — pre-COVID, I used to make a spreadsheet showing all the dates of travel to / from the Schengen Zone so that I could make sure that I didn’t overstay the 90 / 180 rule.

Sometimes that meant doing a weekend in London or Dublin (which isn’t in the Schengen Zone for Americans).

I did get challenged once, and it was helpful to have the spreadsheet so that I could give the officer accurate information in response to their questions, but they also verified the passport stamps one by one. This was in Denmark, and I guess it was a slow travel day or someone needed training. Anyway I was on my way in plenty of time for my flight and grateful that I’d been careful.

 

[trecile]

Sometimes that meant doing a weekend in London or Dublin (which isn’t in the Schengen Zone for Americans)

Neither are in the Schengen zone at all.

 

[timr]

With the backlog here for passports at the moment it could be a while all right.

Of no relevance to this thread, BUT

I had to renew my Irish passport in December 2021, in the days between Christmas and New Year's. I took my own photo on the Sunday and submitted it online to and had two passports - book and passport card - in my hand by post on Thursday. I was living then in Liverpool and it came to me by post from Dublin.

I know getting a first passport as a 'registered foreign birth' - which is the basis for "one Irish grandparent", is possibly more complicated.

But I did feel very pleasantly surprised at the short turn around time.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

It could take a while to apply for and receive though.

Yes, it took about 2 years for my mum to get hers!

 

[jldelta]

How nice you want to give something back

You don't mention (I think) on what date your overstay would begin - I assume it is soon and long before the new EES system is operational - in your position I would stop "thinking about overstaying" and immediately go online and apply for a one week visa, stating the reason for your request (for which there is almost certainly a question on the application form). I would also call the relevant office and ask how to get the visa in time. Be calm, clear & persistent, stating clearly that it is your wonderful experience of Spain on the Camino that has led you to wish to give something back to pilgrims in Spain (assuming this is true). Keep a record of anyone's name & department with whom you speak. If the visa doesn't come through in time, make a decision and if it is to overstay, face any consequences, which you might be able to mitigate in part or in whole by showing that you had taken the required steps for a very short extension for noble reasons.

Also, the visa might be approved just in time but you receive it after your departure. I once applied 6 months in advance for permits to enter both Sikkim and Assam... when I returned from my 9 month overland trip over one year later, the unused permits were waiting for me in London !

 

[timr]

Also, the visa might be approved just in time but you receive it after your departure. I once applied 6 months in advance for permits to enter both Sikkim and Assam... when I returned from my 9 month overland trip over one year later, the unused permits were waiting for me in London !

Again, off topic.

I worked many, many years ago for two years in a large West African country, having made all necessary formal applications well in advance.

My medical registration came through about six months after I returned to UK (so about 3 years after i applied for it) and my work permit (for which this was a requirement) followed some months later!

 

[RussB]

The other choice is to walk quicker,
Not sure which Camino you are planning but I would have thought most are doable in circa 80 days, leaving plenty of time for volenteerring.

 

[Damien Reynolds]

Not exactly to your point, being American (same boat now, just a longer trip) this thread kinda freaked me out! I recently planned an impromptu trip without thinking at all about any visa implications! So as mentioned above, I built a spreadsheet! Turns out, as luck would have it, its gonna be 92 days since my last departure from Schengen when i get back to Spain. So, unless I spend longer than 90 days this time, which I won't, its impossible for me to violate the 90 days in any 180 day period. Phew! can continue packing now.

 

[Flatlander]

One thing to consider is that overstaying may impact on any travel to other zones in the future.
A common question asked is if you have overstayed previous visas. Answer yes and you'll get a good checking. Answer no and be found out? Bye Bye USA, Australia, wherever.

It may also have implications on insurance, admittedly low risk if only two days.

If you know you're going to overstay get a visa. It shouldn't be difficult.

Deliberately overstaying a visa is quite disrespectful too.

 

[timr]

If you know you're going to overstay get a visa. It shouldn't be difficult.

I speak as a happy holder of an EU passport, though resident in UK.

The application process for Schengen visa is not insignicant...

Schengen visas

www.exteriores.gob.es

1. The cost is €80 and you have to show you have €30,000 of medical insurance.
2. And you have to submit your passport
3. And either you travel to the embassy or you pay €175 Mobile biometric service (to collect your fingerprints) if you canot get to the Embassy.

I would say more, but I would not like to transgress the rules of the forum. Just to say, it wasn't on the side of the bus. (If you know what I mean, you know what I mean.)

 

[jldelta]

I'm English and I'm thinking about overstaying my 90 day limit by 2 or 3 days, flying out of Santiago...(this is so I can squeeze in a stint as a volunteer hospitalero).
Anyone have experience of this? What happened? Wrist-slap? Fine? Not allowed to go back ever?
TIA, Cole

Have we put you off yet, Cole ?

You don't mention the length of your stint as a hospitalero, nor your route through Spain etc... could traveling at some point through Gibraltar or Andorra help, thereby sufficiently reducing your EU stay, I wonder...

 

[Molly Cassidy]

1. The cost is €80 and you have to show you have €30,000 of medical insurance.

I paid much more than that for my Spanish visa under a "reciprocal agreement" with the UK! Even though that was the price displayed in the Spanish embassy in Athens where I went to collect my visa! I am a UK citizen with EU residence.

 

[Flatlander]

The application process for Schengen visa is not insignicant...

Wow. That's more complicated and expensive than I thought!
Thanks for the correction.

 

[jerbear]

Stay if you wish, just accept any consequences you may recieve.

 

[laineylainey]

No experience. And I am happy to remain a citizen of the EU, so don't need to give it any serious thought. But if i were going to do what you suggest, I wouldn't announce it in a public place! It would be hard to say it had happened by accident thereafter.

We have been told that even with an Irish passport, which we have, we cannot stay for longer than 90 days in Europe as Ireland was not originally a Schengen country or part of the schengen agreement. Would anyone with Irish nationality confirm the position of time allowed to travel within Europe on one trip?

 

[Friend from Barquinha]

I have to wonder given the following information copied off a government website and your proximity to Spain / Schengen countries why not just get a visa to stay over. It's not a hard process.

If you plan to stay for longer than 90 days in any 180-day period, you must contact the high commission or embassy of the country or countries to which you are travelling and obtain the appropriate visa before you travel. If you do not obtain the appropriate visa and you stay longer than the permitted 90 days in the Schengen area, you may be fined or deported.

Easier said than done, if Spain's consular service is anything like Portugal's. Unless you're a student or have some other specialized reason to be staying more than 90 days, it's not very easy to get an extended-stay visa. It sounds good, but they seem reluctant to issue these.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

We have been told that even with an Irish passport, which we have, we cannot stay for longer than 90 days in Europe as Ireland was not originally a Schengen country or part of the schengen agreement. Would anyone with Irish nationality confirm the position of time allowed to travel within Europe on one trip?

Ireland isn't in the Schengen zone, but as far as I know there are no restrictions on the length of time Irish citizens can spend in the EU. Ireland is in exactly the same situation as the UK was before Brexit.

 

[Bradypus]

Ireland isn't in the Schengen zone, but as far as I know there are no restrictions on the length of time Irish citizens can spend in the EU. Ireland is in exactly the same situation as the UK was before Brexit.

EU citizens are allowed to spend up to three months in another EU state without further formalities. After that the right to remain has some conditions attached.

Free movement and residence

Information on EU citizens' right to move and reside freely within the EU.

commission.europa.eu

 

[Molly Cassidy]

EU citizens are allowed to spend up to three months in another EU state without further formalities. After that the right to remain has some conditions attached.

Free movement and residence

Information on EU citizens' right to move and reside freely within the EU.

commission.europa.eu

But that's 3 months in a single country. If you go to another country before the end of 3 months, the clock starts again.

 

[laineylainey]

But that's 3 months in a single country. If you go to another country before the end of 3 months, the clock starts again.

If that is true, that's great news! My husband and I would like to travel Northern Spain in September (I hope to walk the Olvidado), we have only just found out that, having an Irish passport, making us in effect EU citizens, does not allow us to extend a stay in a European country beyond 90 days, but we could go into France and than come back for another 90 days? But how do we prove travelling into France when there are no border checks between France and Spain?

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Generally you don't need to prove it. No-one will check. If you take a train, plane or bus to France, keep your tickets.

As an Irish citizen you can stay for more than 90 days, you are just required to register. In reality it's highly unlikely anyone will care where you go or how long you stay in each country as an EU citizen.

 

[Flatlander]

We have been told that even with an Irish passport, which we have, we cannot stay for longer than 90 days in Europe as Ireland was not originally a Schengen country or part of the schengen agreement. Would anyone with Irish nationality confirm the position of time allowed to travel within Europe on one trip?

This is the kind of question that inspires well meaning but ultimately useless answers.
Without knowing the Nationality/Citizenship of both of you, what passports you're carrying, how and where you are entering Europe, what passports you will use to enter and leave Europe I don't think anyone can answer authoritatively.

Each country in the EU has different approaches to this.
The best answer you can get is from the Spanish embassy in the country where you live, and preferably in writing.

As pointed out there are no real checks done. Until something goes wrong. The "big one " I always think of is insurance: Perhaps your insurance won't cover you if you are technically illegal in another country.

 

[Kirkie]

If that is true, that's great news! My husband and I would like to travel Northern Spain in September (I hope to walk the Olvidado), we have only just found out that, having an Irish passport, making us in effect EU citizens, does not allow us to extend a stay in a European country beyond 90 days, but we could go into France and than come back for another 90 days? But how do we prove travelling into France when there are no border checks between France and Spain?

Check with Citizens Advice Bureau.

 

[Kathor1]

This is the kind of question that inspires well meaning but ultimately useless answers.

I could not agree more.

Each country in the EU has different approaches to this

And again, I could not agree more.

The general rule is that any EU citizen (and that includes Irish citizens) can live, work, study and retire in any other EU country and, generally speaking again, after three months they have to register at their place of residence in Spain.

The questions on the forum, however, do not refer to living, studying, working or retiring in Spain, they refer to being on holiday in Spain and, assuming that they are Camino walking for more than 3 months, without a place of residence. I’ve never seen a meaningful answer to this question nor do I find it on the usual websites. My guess, but it is only a guess, is that the number of EU citizens who walk for 3 months on Caminos in Spain is so low and unimportant that nobody cares.

 

[Flatlander]

My guess, but it is only a guess, is that the number of EU citizens who walk for 3 months on Caminos in Spain is so low that nobody cares.

I think that's true. Until something goes wrong.

I think also, that I, as an Irish born citizen, may be treated differently to someone who is not Irish, presumably not European either, and carrying an Irish Passport.

Spanish immigration rules are incredibly bureaucratic and if someone finds themselves outside the rules it will most likely require legal assistance.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

I think that's true. Until something goes wrong.

I think also, that I, as an Irish born citizen, may be treated differently to someone who is not Irish, presumably not European either, and carrying an Irish Passport.

Spanish immigration rules are incredibly bureaucratic and if someone finds themselves outside the rules it will most likely require legal assistance.

How would anybody know whether you were born an Irish citizen?

 

[Flatlander]

How would anybody know whether you were born an Irish citizen?

I think you may be missing my point.

I can supply an Irish address, telephone number(s), bank details, a whole series of contacts and a whole batch of other proof of where I am from.

I'm not saying it's necessary. It is an example of where my experience as an Irish Passport holder could be different from the person posing the question.

Therefore they are better off asking their question at the Spanish Embassy

 

[Molly Cassidy]

So, all you mean is that you live in Ireland.

 

[Flatlander]

So, all you mean is that you live in Ireland.

No.
I haven't lived in Ireland for close on 30 years.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

No.
I haven't lived in Ireland for close on 30 years.

OK, I'm not sure anything you said proves you are an Irish citizen from birth. I am not and never will be an Irish citizen. I lived there for 5 years and could provide all the things you describe.

 

[Kathor1]

I think that's true. Until something goes wrong.

Exactly.

If you have an EU passport and want to stay longer than 3 months in Spain then by all means go to the next town hall and say what’s what and try to register. Don’t try some pirouettes like going for a day to France and return to Spain again because that’s most certainly not foreseen in EU law.

And if you are confident that nobody will notice anyway that you are already in your 4th or 5th month in Spain without having registered then a day or two in France won’t make a difference. This is not the USA where I believe they have such exit/entry laws for non-nationals. EU citizens have a special status in EU law - it is between the status of a national in one’s own country and the status of a non-EU national, and it is quite a unique concept.

 

[henrythedog]

I think that's true. Until something goes wrong.

I think also, that I, as an Irish born citizen, may be treated differently to someone who is not Irish, presumably not European either, and carrying an Irish Passport.

Spanish immigration rules are incredibly bureaucratic and if someone finds themselves outside the rules it will most likely require legal assistance.

I’d very much hope that two people each carrying the same passport would be treated equally.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Don’t try some pirouettes like going for a day to France and return to Spain again because that’s most certainly not foreseen in EU law.

Sorry, when I said the clock resets when you leave the country, I wasn't really suggesting that, just that you could continue your travels in other countries almost indefinitely. So not limited to 90 days in the Schengen zone.

 

[Flatlander]

OK, I'm not sure anything you said proves you are an Irish citizen from birth. I am not and never will be an Irish citizen. I lived there for 5 years and could provide all the things you describe.

I'm not sure why you are so focused on this?

I am not familiar with the person asking the question but from the way they have posted I am led to believe that they are not Irish. They have asked for the experiences of Irish people. I am suggesting that the two experiences may not always be the same.

by all means go to the next town hall and say what’s what and try to register.

That can take weeks! And it is not a simple process.

Don’t try some pirouettes like going for a day to France and return to Spain again

In actual fact, it may be a simpler process to get a stamp in France to prove a visit and thus resetting the clock.

The point is, the best people to advise are the folks in the Spanish Embassy.

I’d very much hope that two people each carrying the same passport would be treated equally.

I would hope so too. My experience, unfortunately, doesn't match such optimism. I have had various forms of ID from different EU countries and have chosen which to use depending on the occasion.

 

[Kathor1]

Yes, someone with an EU passport and without residence in any EU country can travel forever through the 27 countries - at least afaik but I am not familiar with all the clauses in EU law and in the national law of 27 countries. They are not covered by EU social security systems and they are not covered by EU health care systems - because they are not enrolled in either of them as they don’t have residency in the EU. Is there even one person who is on an eternal tourism tour of Europe - doesn’t that get boring after a while? I wonder how realistic all this is.

 

[Kathor1]

That can take weeks! And it is not a simple process.

Of course! How could I forget this - if you have an EU passport, let’s say Irish but don’t want to work, or are not looking for work, are not studying and are not retired and retiring in an EU country other than Ireland, you have a hurdle to take when you want to register at the 3 months mark as you should: you must provide convincing proof that you can support yourself and are unlikely to become a burden on the social security system … town administrations can get really mean about this.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Something I came across recently is that when Irish citizens, from a non-Schengen member country, do enter the Schengen zone they have to pass through immigration as if they were not from the EU. Is this true? Do they get a visa stamp if it is true?

 

[Molly Cassidy]

That can take weeks! And it is not a simple process.

The initial registration at the the town hall was fairly simple. I had to fill in a form saying why I was there and provide evidence of where I was living and that I had actually paid the rent. Because I'm not an EU citizen they wanted to see my visa.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Something I came across recently is that when Irish citizens, from a non-Schengen member country, do enter the Schengen zone they have to pass through immigration as if they were not from the EU. Is this true? Do they get a visa stamp if it is true?

No, I don't think so. They just look at the passport. If you are an EU citizen there are no stamps.

 

[timr]

Something I came across recently is that when Irish citizens, from a non-Schengen member country, do enter the Schengen zone they have to pass through immigration as if they were not from the EU. Is this true? Do they get a visa stamp if it is true?

I have done this dozens of time in the past 10 years and have never got a stamp and always entered through the EU channel. I am an Irish citizen, living in a non-EU, non-Schengen country.

 

[Flatlander]

The initial registration at the the town hall was fairly simple. I had to fill in a form saying why I was there and provide evidence of where I was living and that I had actually paid the rent. Because I'm not an EU citizen they wanted to see my visa.

I said can, as in may. Not will. Each municipality is different.
I don't think the person who posed the question is contemplating staying and paying rent in any case.

And I don't think any of this is helpful.

 

[Kathor1]

The initial registration at the the town hall was fairly simple. I had to fill in a form saying why I was there and provide evidence of where I was living and that I had actually paid the rent. Because I'm not an EU citizen they wanted to see my visa.

We are now mixing up two essentially different processes: someone who does not have an EU passport and comes to work in an EU country and has a visa and a fixed abode versus someone who has an EU passport, therefore does never need a visa, does not intend to work, study or retire in an EU country other than the country of his/her passport. It is the latter category who will have problems with registration at a town hall. I am speaking from experience: members of my own family and those of friends. Municipalities have really become more restrictive and stricter in recent years in this context.

 

[Kathor1]

Something I came across recently is that when Irish citizens, from a non-Schengen member country, do enter the Schengen zone they have to pass through immigration as if they were not from the EU. Is this true? Do they get a visa stamp if it is true?

Travelling for example from Ireland (a non-Schengen EU country) to the Schengen area, every EU passport holder is treated the same: passport control by Schengen border officials and no Schengen entry stamp.

Really, it has been like this for years and years - when the UK (a non-Schengen country) was still in the EU and I travelled from England to France, I had to show my EU passport each time upon arrival on French soil. And it feels like waiting for ages when you are in the long lines from the car ferry slowly inching forward towards the border control huts. Now it seems to take even longer because every British passport must be stamped now.

 

[isawtman]

I'm English and I'm thinking about overstaying my 90 day limit by 2 or 3 days, flying out of Santiago...(this is so I can squeeze in a stint as a volunteer hospitalero).
Anyone have experience of this? What happened? Wrist-slap? Fine? Not allowed to go back ever?
TIA, Cole

How about just hiking a little faster and getting there 3 days faster. Sounds kind of ridiculous for just 2 or 3 days extra

 

[jldelta]

In the unlikely event that the OP has not run rapidly away from this thread … I rent 3 bedrooms here in NL to students, often from outside the EU, every academic year.

Many fail to complete their registrations either correctly or on time. They do indeed sometimes receive reminders and eventually threats of impending fines, but it has NEVER resulted in penalties & is always resolved.

 

[Kathor1]

In the unlikely event that the OP has not run rapidly away from this thread … I rent 3 bedrooms here in NL to students, often from outside the EU, every academic year.

Many fail to complete their registrations either correctly or on time. They do indeed sometimes receive reminders and eventually threats of impending fines, but it has NEVER resulted in penalties & is always resolved.

It’s probably redundant to point it out again:

• non-EU passport holder who stays in the EU to study …
• EU passport holder who stays in another EU country to study …
• EU passport holder who stays in another EU country for other purposes (no study, no work) and needs to register …

These are three different cases with different potential issues.
Only case 3 is of actual interest to forum members.
Anectodes and references to other cases than case 3 only serve to muddle information that is of practical use.

 

[jldelta]

It’s probably redundant to point it out again:

• non-EU passport holder who stays in the EU to study …
• EU passport holder who stays in another EU country to study …
• EU passport holder who stays in another EU country for other purposes (no study, no work) and needs to register …

These are three different cases with different potential issues.
Only case 3 is of actual interest to forum members.
Anectodes and references to other cases than case 3 only serve to muddle information that is of practical use.

Surely none of the above are relevant to the OP, a British passport holder who is not entering Spain to study ? There does not appear to be a great deal of info on this thread of truly practical use to the OP.

 

[Flog]

Only case 3 is of actual interest to forum members.
Anectodes and references to other cases than case 3 only serve to muddle information that is of practical use.

Luckily that is something that almost never happens on this forum

 

[Flog]

Surely none of the above are relevant to the OP, a British passport holder who is not entering Spain to study ?

Nor is your anecdote.

 

[Kathor1]

Surely none of the above are relevant to the OP, a British passport holder who is not entering Spain to study ? There does not appear to be a great deal of info on this thread of truly practical use to the OP.

Yes, indeed it doesn’t. The original question has been answered extensively and the discussion has moved on to the situation of forum members who: do not have residency in the EU; acquired an EU nationaliy (Irish) as a second nationality; want to stay/reside longer than 3 months in Spain.

Or perhaps I am too harsh in my assessment and I ought to have written that the discussion has moved on to the principle of EU freedom of movement of EU passport holders in theory, in practice and according to common belief, as well as to EU law on long-term stays of third country (non-EU) nationals in theory and practice?

 

[laineylainey]

How would anybody know whether you were born an Irish citizen?

Because you were born on the Island of Ireland and have an Irish passport.

 

[laineylainey]

Yes, indeed it doesn’t. The original question has been answered extensively and the discussion has moved on to the situation of forum members who: do not have residency in the EU; acquired an EU nationaliy (Irish) as a second nationality; want to stay/reside longer than 3 months in Spain.

Or perhaps I am too harsh in my assessment and I ought to have written that the discussion has moved on to the principle of EU freedom of movement of EU passport holders in theory, in practice and according to common belief, as well as to EU law on long-term stays of third country (non-EU) nationals in theory and practice?

Great answer, thank you

 

[Kirkie]

In the unlikely event that the OP has not run rapidly away from this thread … I rent 3 bedrooms here in NL to students, often from outside the EU, every academic year.

Many fail to complete their registrations either correctly or on time. They do indeed sometimes receive reminders and eventually threats of impending fines, but it has NEVER resulted in penalties & is always resolved.

The OP was last seen yesterday at 15.10. No idea if he peeked in to his own thread. I am not so sure if anyone with the experience he wanted to hear about has answered, the thread is a bit confusing with info and advice. There is plenty of sensible advice, for those who wish to conform to rules. Personally, it is unlikely I will again spend more than 90 days on the Iberian peninsula, but if I did, one of the first things I would do is register, as it gives access to municipal swimming pools at a great annual rate, for one thing!
@laineylainey you will be fine, don't be worried.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Because you were born on the Island of Ireland and have an Irish passport.

But lots of people who were born elsewhere were also Irish citizens from birth.

The idea that immigration officials will differentiate between "real" Irish people and Brits who just got an Irish passport because of Brexit is ridiculous. If your government chooses to give citizenship to any individual for whatever reason, they have exactly the same rights as other EU citizens.

 

[wayfarer]

The situation here is simple, spend your 90 days in Spain and then go home or overstay and suffer the consequences if you are caught.

 

[laineylainey]

I was born in N.Ireland and because so far N.Ireland remain part of the UK, I have a UK passport, but also because I was born on the island of Ireland I am entitled to apply for an Irish passport, which I did.
If I travel from Ireland to Europe I use my Irish passport if I travel from N.Ireland to UK, I use the UK one!

 

[laineylainey]

For chapter and verse on my question about traveling in Spain this autumn, I am contacting the Spanish Embassy in Dublin. That should answer my need for facts on the matter! Must say thought, have really enjoyed this "debate" and thank you to @SushiNinja for the original question and apologies for it developing, as oft it does on this forum, into something else. Great stuff!!

 

[Flatlander]

For the record, I was not suggesting this at all.

The idea that immigration officials will differentiate between "real" Irish people and Brits who just got an Irish passport because of Brexit is ridiculous.

This is what I wrote

I think also, that I, as an Irish born citizen, may be treated differently to someone who is not Irish, presumably not European either, and carrying an Irish Passport.

The "B" word was not mentioned.

The person asking the question has clarified the situation (for themselves, not their husband) and is unlikely to have any issues.

I don't think it is particularly fair or "right" that the passport of one country may invite more curiosity than another but my experience is that anything unusual usually gets investigated.

As I have said, this may only be an issue if something goes wrong.

These things can be quite complicated, two situations can be superficially the same but substantively different. They are worth teasing out.

@laineylainey , a useful advantage of an EU passport is that you have a right to assistance from any EU embassy or consulate no matter where in the world you are. In Spain, I don't think it particularly advantageous but in other parts of the world it can be very helpful in times of crisis. The Irish Department of Foreign Affairs invites Irish Passport Holders to register with them online when going abroad. It can speed up communication in times of crisis if you are already "in the system". Again, probably not necessary in Spain but further afield it can be very helpful.

I was in México when Covid made its presence felt, had pre-registered my journey and was contacted by the Irish Embassy. I had regular contact up to and including speaking with the Ambassador herself and was very impressed with the service and care.

Welcome aboard!

 

[laineylainey]

Thanks @Flatlander , good idea about registering with IDFA, you just never know.

 

[Kathor1]

@laineylainey and others interested in this topic - here is a relevant website from the EU institutions about residence rights of inactive EU citizens:

Residence rights for economically inactive EU citizens - Your Europe

Residence rights for economically inactive EU citizens

europa.eu

The Union rights to stay/live in Spain for EU pensioners for as long as they want are very strong. I wrote “stay/live” because the legal concepts of “being in“ an EU country other than the country of one’s own nationality, “living in“ the country, “residing in the country” or “domicile”, “residency”, “usual stay“ are sometimes not clear to me (I am referring to EU law and not to other country’s laws). Also, the tax office has different ideas about this than the “foreigner registration office” at the town hall … just think of the “183 days in a calendar year“ for tax purposes.

Out of curiosity, I had a look on a few websites in Dutch and German because numerous citizens from these two countries travel with their mobile homes/camper vans to Spain and spend many months there, in summer as well as in winter. Still, I found no answer as to whether they have to register after 3 months or not, especially when they don’t have a fixed address, i.e. continue travelling around instead of staying at one site.

Note that there is also a difference in EU law about Union rights between the obligation to report your presence (happens automatically in Spain each time you stay in a hotel, albergue or at a campsite) and the obligation to register - see last link on the EU website mentioned above.

 

[Kathor1]

see last link on the EU website mentioned above.

I see only now that this link eventually leads to Spanish government sites in English. But again, they distinguish between “right to stay up for up to 3 months” (estancia) and “right to reside for more than 3 months” (residencia). What if you want to stay but not reside? That appears to be the conundrum - I at least I have not managed to wrap my mind around this … .

How lucky you non-EU guys are: you at least know for sure that you will need a long-stay visa.

https://administracion.gob.es/pag_H...igaciones/ciudadanos/residencia/estancia.html
https://administracion.gob.es/pag_H...udadanos/residencia/obtencion-residencia.html

 

[Flatlander]

Out of curiosity, I had a look on a few websites in Dutch and German because numerous citizens from these two countries travel with their mobile homes/camper vans to Spain and spend many months there, in summer as well as in winter. Still, I found no answer as to whether they have to register after 3 months or not, especially when they don’t have a fixed address, i.e. continue travelling around instead of staying at one site.

Just on this......
Dutch, and I think Germans too, both jurisdictions where citizens/residents have to be registered to an address (unlike Ireland and the UK) have the option of what I would describe as a "time out" of that registration. They may still have health insurance in their own country (especially for those abroad), They will still be a part of respective tax systems (even if with little or no payments to make) etc. In that vein, while unregistered in the formal sense, they still have ties with their country of citizenship and re-registering is simpler than registering for the first time.

I'll repeat it again. There are very few practical problems that someone will face from the Spanish authorities for overstaying, especially if not working or attempting to benefit from services. The chances of being "caught" are minimal and a draconian response is unlikely.
However, problems lie away from the authorities in cases such as insurance not being valid, or potential future travel to the EU or elsewhere being limited (when an overstay has been noted). Not to mention that it is disrespectful to enter another country with the intention of breaking their laws.

There are a host of other issues for longer term travel away from home that vary from country to country. For example, in some jurisdictions it is standard procedure that home insurance lapses if the residence has not been lived in for a period of time. Or that new sim card you bought on arrival may need to be registered locally after a set period.

Advice for these kinds of things is better sought from the experts.

 

[Kathor1]

Erm … how one’s own country views this is a completely different kettle of fish. And what a kettle it is. Because that is mainly national law and not EU law. If, for example you are a German national but live in another EU country and have kept your flat or house in Germany as your second residence or occasional holiday residence, German law will regard this as your main residence - there is no way around it. While the EU country where you actually live and are also registered as such has a completely different view about your main residency. Better not go there.

Also, non-EU people may overstay in Spain. EU people cannot overstay in Spain - they may fail to fulfill an administrative duty either due to ignorance or knowingly but that is not overstaying - very big differences here.

 

[VNwalking]

I'll repeat it again. There are very few practical problems that someone will face from the Spanish authorities for overstaying, especially if not working or attempting to benefit from services. The chances of being "caught" are minimal and a draconian response is unlikely.

Ummmm. Fines, deportation, and not being allowed back into the Schengen Zone temporarily or permanently hardly feel like inconsequential responses.
From

What Are the Consequences of Overstaying in the Schengen Area?

Getting a Schengen Visa is never easy. There are a lot of documents you will need to collect and requirements you must meet. There is the interview and then the wait for visa processing. However, once you get the visa, you feel rewarded and convinced everything was worth it. To many, the 90-day...

www.schengenvisainfo.com

The first thing that you should know, is that an overstayed visa never goes unnoticed. The immigration authorities have registered in their databases every person that enters and leaves the Schengen, and every overstaying, even just for a day, is recorded.

Secondly, intentional or unintentional, no overstaying is left unpunished. It could be fine, immediate deportation or even getting banned from entering the Schengen Zone for a specific amount of time.

Finally, yet importantly, it does not matter if you have entered Schengen territory on a Schengen Visa, or if you are the national of a country, to which a visa waiver has been applied. You are not allowed to overstay the 90 days amount of permitted stay per 180 days, even if you belong to one of the latter. It does not also matter if you are overstaying a Schengen tourist visa or you are overstaying a student visa. There is a visa overstaying penalty for each, and if you do such a thing, you will get yours.

 

[laineylainey]

I see only now that this link eventually leads to Spanish government sites in English. But again, they distinguish between “right to stay up for up to 3 months” (estancia) and “right to reside for more than 3 months” (residencia). What if you want to stay but not reside? That appears to be the conundrum - I at least I have not managed to wrap my mind around this … .

How lucky you non-EU guys are: you at least know for sure that you will need a long-stay visa.

https://administracion.gob.es/pag_H...igaciones/ciudadanos/residencia/estancia.html
https://administracion.gob.es/pag_H...udadanos/residencia/obtencion-residencia.html

Thank you @Kathar1na taking the time to research and report back on this. I for one, an EU pensioner wishing to travel around Spain in a Campervan, am very grateful for your comments and links.

 

[laineylainey]

Erm … how one’s own country views this is a completely different kettle of fish. And what a kettle it is. Because that is mainly national law and not EU law. If, for example you are a German national but live in another EU country and have kept your flat or house in Germany as your second residence or occasional holiday residence, German law will regard this as your main residence - there is no way around it. While the EU country where you actually live and are also registered as such has a completely different view about your main residency. Better not go there.

Also, non-EU people may overstay in Spain. EU people cannot overstay in Spain - they may fail to fulfill an administrative duty either due to ignorance or knowingly but that is not overstaying - very big differences here.

In what circumstances can non EU people overstay in Spain? Thought it was definitely only maximum 90 days at the minute?

 

[Flatlander]

Ummmm. Fines, deportation, and not being allowed back into the Schengen Zone temporarily or permanently hardly feel like inconsequential responses.
From

What Are the Consequences of Overstaying in the Schengen Area?

Getting a Schengen Visa is never easy. There are a lot of documents you will need to collect and requirements you must meet. There is the interview and then the wait for visa processing. However, once you get the visa, you feel rewarded and convinced everything was worth it. To many, the 90-day...

www.schengenvisainfo.com

With respect, in the case we are discussing where a person is carrying an EU passport, will have received no stamp on entry, appears to be driving across the border, just how will a stay of over 90 days be caught in Spain?
It is possible, most likely when something goes wrong - such as an accident or traffic violation - but unlikely.

In any case, as had been established, an EU passport holder staying beyond 90 days in Spain with no intention to live at one address or work is in a grey area. It really is not clear at all.

A non-EU passport holder, in possession of a Visa is bound by the terms of that visa. That is far more clearcut.

 

[VNwalking]

With respect, in the case we are discussing where a person is carrying an EU passport, will have received no stamp on entry, appears to be driving across the border, just how will a stay of over 90 days be caught in Spain?

In spite of thread drift it's totally relevant. The OP is English.

 

[laineylainey]

I can also see why ot would be possible for Schengen country residents to overstay in any other Schengen EU country. There are no border controls. The big difference fir us residing in Ireland (a non schengen country but member EU state), is that we go through EU border control going and leaving Spain.

 

[Flatlander]

It's totally relevant. The OP is English.

Yes, the OP is English, has not contributed to the thread since their OP and we are now discussing the scenario of an EU passport holder planning to be in Spain for more than 90 days.

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/overstayed-90-days-from-uk.79201/post-1116871

 

[VNwalking]

we are now discussing the scenario of an EU passport holder planning to be in Spain for more than 90 days.

Excuse me.
But as Laineylainey just said it is relevant for anyone from Ireland, as well.

 

[Flatlander]

Excuse me.
But as Laineylainey just said it is relevant for anyone from Ireland, as well.

What is relevant?

Fines, deportation, and not being allowed back into the Schengen Zone temporarily or permanently hardly feel like inconsequential responses.

I think this is unlikely to happen to an EU passport carrying pensioner travelling around Spain in a campervan.

 

[VNwalking]

What is relevant?

What I posted about the Schengen Zone.
Irish citizens are EU citzens, yes.
But.
Ireland is not in the Schengen Zone. So as Laineylainey said, Irish citizens have to go through border controls any time they enter or leave the SZ.

The big difference fir us residing in Ireland (a non schengen country but member EU state), is that we go through EU border control going and leaving Spain.

It may seem farfetched that an EU pensioner in a campervan would be harshly treated at that border, but it seems a bit reckless to be saying 'No problem, it's unlikely you'll get caught.'

Not to mention being ethically questionable - or is purposefully breaking the law just because it's inlikely you'll face consequences fashionable now?

 

[Flatlander]

I'm thinking that my thoughts have been mischaracterised.

It seems a bit reckless to be saying 'No problem, it's unlikely you'll get caught.'

I'll repeat it again. There are very few practical problems that someone will face from the Spanish authorities for overstaying, especially if not working or attempting to benefit from services. The chances of being "caught" are minimal and a draconian response is unlikely.

However, problems lie away from the authorities in cases such as insurance not being valid,

Not to mention that it is disrespectful to enter another country with the intention of breaking their laws.

Advice for these kinds of things is better sought from the experts.

And with this I bow out remembering why I left this place for a few years.

 

[VNwalking]

Not to mention that it is disrespectful to enter another country with the intention of breaking their laws.

Advice for these kinds of things is better sought from the experts.

Absolutely.
I was reacting (strongly, for which I'm sorry) to the first part, interpreting it as a cavalier disregard of laws:

I'll repeat it again. There are very few practical problems that someone will face from the Spanish authorities for overstaying, especially if not working or attempting to benefit from services. The chances of being "caught" are minimal and a draconian response is unlikely.

So if my interpretation isn't what you intended, I'm happy to retract what I said, with apology.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

What I posted about the Schengen Zone.
Irish citizens are EU citzens, yes.
But.
Ireland is not in the Schengen Zone. So as Laineylainey said, Irish citizens have to go through border controls any time they enter or leave the SZ.


It may seem farfetched that an EU pensioner in a campervan would be harshly treated at that border, but it seems a bit reckless to be saying 'No problem, it's unlikely you'll get caught.'

Not to mention being ethically questionable - or is purposefully breaking the law just because it's inlikely you'll face consequences fashionable now?

They have to go through border control when entering and leaving the schengen zone, but they are not restricted to a maximum of 90 days in the Schengen zone.

They can spend 3 months in Spain, then travel to France and spend 3 months there, then to Germany and spend 3 months there, all without registering or breaking any rules. They also won't have their passport stamped, because they are EU citizens, so it will not be immediately clear how long they have been there anyway.

If they wish to reside in another country, they are supposed to register after 3 months in that country, but open borders within the Schengen zone make it impossible to actually know how long an EU citizen has been in any particular country.

 

[laineylainey]

Can we all take a deep breath on this, please. The last thing I wanted to do was to have people at each other's throats over something, that quite honestly as research by @Kathar1na and others have shown, is a minefield of information that is not in cases totally clear!
IT IS NOT WORTH FALLING OUT OVER, (imho) and certainly when someone is so upset to leave, we have gone too far. So apologies and let's move on.

 

[ivar]

I closed this thread...