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Optimizing Pack Weight: Layering Tips for Camino in August-September

MainelyStina

Chronic Overpacker
Time of past OR future Camino
Camino Frances from SJPP Starting Aug 21, 2023
Hey All!

I leave for my Camino in just under 50 days, so I'm in the quarter-final stages of packing/shaving weight from my pack. My Camino is scheduled to stretch from 21 August until 30 September. I'm really struggling with figuring out the best layering options all while trying to keep my pack weight down (I'm outright failing at that at the moment!) I repack on near weekly basis, stripping items from the bag, and this past Saturday, instead of losing weight, the bag gained nearly a kilo...

One of my current dilemmas is around layering and outerwear. I purchased a backpacking poncho, which I think seems pretty good, and it weighs 330 grams in it's little bag. I'm just trying to figure out what other outerwear I should take with me for this time period. I know it is likely to be fairly warm in August and probably early September, but am wondering about early mornings, and late September in Galicia? I have a wool sweater I really love, which I think would be great, but it's pretty heavy. I have a lightweight fleece from Outdoor Research, which I also think is great, but worry that it won't be warm enough? Though I do see an advantage to a zip-front fleece for regulating temp vs the pullover sweater. Would it be more advantageous to layer the fleece with a lightweight rain jacket/shell? Is it just unnecessary weight? Or would it be sufficient to simply layer my short sleeve, long sleeve, and light fleece? I know everyone's cold tolerance is different, but, as a data driven individual, I'm just trying to figure out what might be the best system? Any guidance you can offer would be really appreciated. Btw, I'm not a fan of rain pants, so that's why I thought the poncho would be a better option for me (I got really attached to the poncho concept after wearing one at Disney World last fall in a hurricane!)

Thanks in advance for the guidance from the experienced folks on here. And, apologies for repetitive questions...

Stina

PS: I've searched the forum for the last few days, but just though it was easier to ask my own question.
 
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I think it's a challenge we all face.
I'm sure you get lots of ideas and preferences from others here...

On my last Camino I weighed my pack when I was ready to leave and my some miracle it now weighed 1 kg more than planned.
I ended up taking 1 kg of stuff out on arrival in Spain. (Mailed to Ivar)
And a couple of times left things behind I wasn't using.

My next one (5th) I will be ruthless in my packing

We are all different with layering.

I use
  1. I use a merino half zip long sleeve hiking shirt. 125 gsm. (190 gms) Most days I only wear this, if it's 10-12C and above. When warm I just pull the sleeves up above my elbows. Or leave them down for sun protection.
  2. I have a lighweight gortex rain jacket. (380 gms) If it's cool in the mornings or evening I tend to add this. Mainly to keep the wind off, but it kept me warmer too.
  3. As a mid layer, I have a very lightweight merino sleeveless fleece (230 gms). I tried it on cold mornings but it got too hot very quickly. So I mainly used it for cool evenings.
That's it. I carried a spare shirt to rotate them daily for washing etc.

Nothing else for upper body. I don't ever recall wearing all three layers.

I could actually ditch the fleece I suppose.
But I like to know that I have some additional warmth if I have to sit out a storm or something that causes me to stop for a while.
Plus it gives me more layering options.

You don't need rain jacket and poncho. One or the other.
 
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Thanks, Rob! I've watched your packing list video at least twice now? On Saturday (during my great packing debacle!) I downloaded your packing list spreadsheet and tried to align my items with what you had down and I discovered two things: my stuff still seemed to weigh more than yours, and I was a little freaked out by the lack of some items! (Totally a reflection on me!) I really appreciate all the guidance. Like you said - just need to be more ruthless
 
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I might update that video. There are a few things I can drop out I reckon.
Also, I do tend to go for ultra lite gear if I can. Though it's often more expensive.
I get a bit paranoid about pack weight.

But..... as I found on my last Camino............
Reducing body weight is even better!!
 
Maybe you could post your packing list and we make suggestions? How heavy is it?

On top on my walking t-shirt, my layers are usually one long-sleeve ziper walking shirt (synthetic, very light) and/or an ultra light down jacket (aka puffer jacket). I've done all my Camino in autumn and it was perfectly fine temperature wise.
My poncho, who is the plastic type you get at disney world, is big enough to cover me and the backpack.

My overall backpack, without water, is a bit less than 5kg (But I'm a small person).

And you will be walking in Spain, not in the jungle. If you reeeealllyyyy feel like you are missing anything, you can probably just buy it in the next town.
 
I tend to get cold easily. While walking, I always wear:
  • Light merino sleeveless tank top - can be washed daily
  • Synthetic long sleeve button-up walking shirt
I often add a merino wool buff in the morning. If that is not warm enough, I add one or both of
  • Merino wool long-sleeved t-shirt
  • Rain jacket.
That combination has always been warm enough for walking in March to November, and only the tank top needs daily washing.

For evenings, I have:
  • Merino short-sleeved t-shirt,
  • Medium weight full zip merino sweater
  • For March/April or October/November I would also take a sleeveless down vest
That makes 6 or 7 layers but they are all light weight. My pack weighs about 5.5 kg without water.
 
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Anamya said:
Maybe you could post your packing list and we make suggestions? How heavy is it?
Click to expand...
Oh no, not emotionally ready for that yet!

I understand that I can buy anything I might need - I just hate to buy it again if it’s something I already have at home (at this point, after years of hiking, sailing, camping, etc I could open my own REI outlet full of extraneous gear I’ve accumulated over the years!) I’m yet to find a puffer I’m particularly happy with… But your advice is well taken! Thanks for the detailed response!
 
If it is cold weather that concerns you, imagine the coldest morning you might face. Then imagine wearing everything in your pack at once. With ALL your clothes on and your pack empty (sans socks and underwear ), would you be warm enough? Could you put on everything at once? As soon as your answers are yes and yes, your packing list is complete.
 
Thanks C! I really appreciate your response. Is the rain jacket the extent of your rain gear? I tend to get cold easily as well, so I’ve got the merino buff packed also. I just picked up a Turkish towel (thanks to the great advice received here) and that has the potential to make the Final Cut thanks to its versatility and myriad uses beyond drying…
 
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The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
Good advice! I think my unknown data point at the moment is what to expect in that time frame for the coldest morning? So, based on that, my answers are maybe and yes for now.
 
MainelyStina said:
I’m yet to find a puffer I’m particularly happy with…
Click to expand...
Mine is Uniqlo.
I get super itchy with wool and merino, hence all my gear being synthetic. Makes it very light and quick drying though

Rick M said:
Could you put on everything at once? As soon as your answers are yes and yes, your packing list is complete.
Click to expand...
This is actually amazing advice. There are days that you may walk like an onion with many layers. But you will be a happy onion on Camino, so all is good.

Just a note about buying/packing things you might need: I'd say you should be packing only what you WILL need. If you 'might' need something... you also might not. And that's just weight you are carrying. Look at each item and think if you can deal with one or two days without that. If just "onioning" yourself will solve the problem. Maybe that helps cut a few items?
 
That time of year I would not expect colder than about +3C, but every year is different. I walk with a short sleeve merino base layer, a long sleeve polyester shirt, a polyester zip up hoodie fleece, and a rain jacket. Crossing the Pyrenees in April, this combo keeps me warm to 0C in a moderate wind. On a sunny afternoon, it's short sleeve only. In the evening, I add the fleece. On a cooler morning, the polyester long sleeve and the rain jacket. You get the idea.
 
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I am here on my 6th trip to Spain. I am careful with packing both winter and summer and this summer my pack weighs about 6 kilos. (Edit: I carry a CPAP so can't compromise that weight.) Still, There are items I did not use or need so I could have gotten by with at least a half to maybe a full kilo less. Don't bring anything you can't bear to leave behind or lose. The rest just needs to be functional, easy to wash and dry, and be comfortable. You can wear socks on your hands to warm them if needed. Your rain poncho can be a blanket at night if you are cold. Your buff can be a hat or ear muffs.

Go through your pack daily and throw out extra things you don't need that you may have picked up (receipts, city maps, etc) Everything adds up and your back will thank you in the end if you don't bring too much.
 
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Fleece for the chilly mornings, often comes off within an hour. Galicia will be wet ( unless it isn't ) and I always take a lightweight shell.

If you're bothered about putting your pack list up... how about its weight. ?
 
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I wrote about my packing list last year in this thread: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...ll-comfort-for-me-at-least.74766/post-1028828

Generally i layer like this:

Burning hot --> very light long sleeved button down shirt
Hot --> (Merino) T-Shirt
Moderate --> T-Shirt + thin Longsleeve + Buff
Cold / Windy --> above + Softshell
Colder --> above + Rainjacket + Gloves

even in June i had a few mornings were i was quite happy for my gloves. It was not unusual for the temperature to rise 20°C on a day. All my layers are pretty thin, but all combined, i have been quite comfortable even at 5°C or so (while moving).
With the softshell, i like that it keeps of the wind while still breathing really well. Even the occasional drop of rain. I think it's the item i wore almost every single day.
 
My packing list has been fairly stable for some time, but this year I swapped my short sleeved base layer tee-shirts for a long sleeve knit shirt, thinking that if it got too warm, I could remove my trekking shirt and still have reasonable sun protection. In the end I didn't do this, but it was always an option. Here is the list I used for the Sanabres recently:
With this list, I can do four layers if I need to for a cold morning - inner layer, shirt, fleece, rain jacket. I have only ever felt the need for an extra layer once, on a very cold Apr morning. If you have chosen to use a poncho, you might need to wear an extra middle layer garment to get four layers if the poncho is too cumbersome to use just for warmth / wind protection. I know I wouldn't be adding a jacket, nor would I be thinking about carrying a heavier fleece - my preference would be to use something already in by bag and think about how that will work. If you are already having difficulty with your weight, adding an extra garment wouldn't be my first reaction.
 
I take 2 cotton blouses, one has long sleeves that can be rolled up, the other is 3/4 length that can also be rolled up, and a turtle neck long sleeve jersey to wear under either of the blouses. All 3 dry quickly, even in a room over night. My fleece is long too, but it only weighs 500gr. Poncho is 340 gr. It was cold every morning this spring, like 2° up until the last week or so of May, so the fleece got worn almost every morning for the first hour of walking as well as in the evening when it got cold again. It only rained 3-4 times, but the Altus poncho worked well.
Pack is 6kg. and am quite happy with it. Gloves were used the first 2 weeks as it was really chilly in the morning, but then donated them at some point. No knit hat, just a buff to wear under my baseball cap on a few occasions.
 
Camino Way markers in Bronze
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
I am really liking this thread, but, MainelyStina - you just have to post your list!! Where is the fun if you don't????

Packing is always a problem .... females tend to be smaller than males so their clothing is lighter, but they feel the cold much more so usually need to take more layers ... and we just don't know what weather it will be, seeing how weird it all has become .. might be gorgeous late dry summer or, dread! rain all the way, who knows?
Sure, you can buy in Spain, and I have said that often .. but if it is seriously cold and you are two days away from a clothing shop? Not fun.

My two-pennyworth? Leave the sweater you love to languish at home - you know it is much too heavy!
and, don't forget how warming a lightweight woolly hat can be - really keeps in the heat.

Now - be brave - post your list!
 
It's all about lightweight layers! I have my undershirts (3 of them), a long sleeve lightweight hiking shirt (2 of them), a fleece vest and my Patagonia puff jacket - summer or winter these layers keep me warm and cool (when I start taking things off! ) It's definitely a journey to figure out what you need.
 
You're right. Mornings (esp pre-dawn) are chilly. I was on the Francés in October last year: poncho, very light-weight REI rain jacket (that was also insulating, much to my delight) and a puffer jacket. No sweater, no fleece.
 
Altus BALI Sleeping bag liner
Ideal sleeping bag liner whether we want to add a thermal plus to our bag, or if we want to use it alone to sleep in shelters or hostels. Thanks to its mummy shape, it adapts perfectly to our body.

€46,-
i haven't read every single reply, so apologies if this is repetitive . . . I have found that wool arm sleeves (I have Smartwool) are a fantastic layering device when paired with a synthetic puffer vest (I like Patagonia). As the day warms up, I can roll the sleeves down and eventually take them off, leaving just the vest.
 
I did the CF starting mid April. I found this system of tops worked really well for me and handled a temperature variance from say 2 deg C and 35 deg C. This allowed for all the layering gradations necessary both on and off the trail, including for sleeping, while not being heavy at all.

Two base (light) weight merino tops, one short sleeve one long sleeve (Icebreaker)

One long sleeve sun hoody for walking (Patagonia)

One very lightweight wind breaker (Patagonia Houdini jacket)

A warm but lightweight synthetic jacket (Patagonia nano puff)

Altus Rain poncho.

I note that I initially thought the light windbreaker would be unnecessary, but it ended up being a critical piece of kit. It was especially useful on cool rainy days because it prevented my shirt getting wet from the inevitable condensation under the Altus. Plus sometimes it was all I needed in terms of an extra layer on early cool mornings.

Patagonia clearly not required, but it’s a brand that has worked very well for me so I consider it to be good value.

ymmv
 
Get a Spanish mobil number + data while on the Camino
Get a spanish phone number with Airalo. eSim, so no physical SIM card. Easy to use app to add more funds if needed.
Layering is for cold days that warm up. I have a merino long sleeve undershirt , a long sleeve poli-cotton shirt (Fishermans shirt) that is designed to roll up the sleeves, a poli-puffy jacket, a goretex medium weight rain jacket. Measure the temps and get ready to shed. It gets wetter later in the year and the further west you travel. If possible bring clothes that dry quickly and wash often with less. P.S. I am in the rain jacket camp, No Poncho. Everything in my pack is in different colored waterproof bags.
 
Sell the gesr you don’t use or which is heavier than todays wear and buy some good new ones.
 
Camino Way markers in Bronze
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
I also use the Patagonia down puffer jacket after using several different one over the years. The lightweight plus comfort received is a great balance.

I have also found that it is fine to sleep in on colder nights…thus I no longer take a sleeping bag..just a silk sleep liner. A great weight reduction. But…August should not require a sleeping bag in any case
 
Hello Stina, I really wonder if you will need wool or fleece at all in Aug/Sept. I live in SWFL so the heat here is tolerable..to me. However, at night I can use a light button up or a 1/4 zip. The mornings are v.nice. Cool, not cold. As you walk you generate warmth so a tank top works for me. I bought a v. Small/compact umbrella. It took less space than a poncho and dries faster. I wish I had a plastic fly swatter! Screens are uncommon and flies are everywhere
 
It is possible to use your flip flop, a rolled up grocery bolsa, or in the case off my most recent AirBNB, a roll of garbage bags as a fly swatter!
 
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Sooooo, if you do not make some hard decisions, you will cause yourself endless grief, with potential foot and back problems. My slogan after seeing what heavy packs cause? Go heavy, go fast, go for too long, go home early.
In light of this, I suggest that you look at layering to get warmth, not specific pieces with specific tasks. Walking wear might look like this: 2 short sleeve merino shirt, 2 long sleeve merino shirt, a nano puff (really anyone will do, it does not need to be perfect), a rain jacket or poncho, a wool cap, glove liners, and a buff. If you are cold, put another shirt or two on. On the bottom, 2 convertible pants and 3 pairs of good walking socks. I had a rain “skirt” instead of pants but didn’t use it. You can wash clothes every day. There are other important items that need to be carried, so be brutal on the nice to have or single use closing.
Remember, you are wearing one set of clothes and the second set goes in your pack.
It will be August and September in Spain-HOT. You will start early and may need an extra shirt for half an hour but as you walk you will heat up and off it will come.
 
If you bring a hooded rain shell you will not need a poncho. For me the rain shell is more versatile. It can also be a wind shell and also be part of your normal upper body layering. I walked in May/June… different from your weather…but carried 4 upper body layers…SS T, LS T, lightweight hooded fleece jacket and a lightweight Helium hooded rain shell. Cold or windy mornings I wore 3 layers and stripped off as the day warmed. Worked perfectly. With a fleece and the shell no need for a puffy or vest.
 
Altus BALI Sleeping bag liner
Ideal sleeping bag liner whether we want to add a thermal plus to our bag, or if we want to use it alone to sleep in shelters or hostels. Thanks to its mummy shape, it adapts perfectly to our body.

€46,-
I walked September/ October. It was hot! Cooler and mistakes in Galicia but never very cold. I took 1 set of uniqlo thermals which I slept in twice in a cold night, and 1 light uniqlo puffy jacket which weighs nothing. 2 pairs of 3/4 pants and 2 cotton shirts. Took a poncho but you sweat so much under it, you may as well just get rain-wet.
 
Some great tips about layering, rain shells and ponchos etc. already.
I think merino top layers win unless you are allergic. I never wear rain pants. I wear shorts and let my legs get wet.

Last Camino I kept a record of weather and clothes in my journal to remind me of how little is needed while walking. Eg.
“Weather: 2 - 14 degrees.
Clothes: short and long sleeve merino top, light fleece and wind/shower shell, trekking pants.”
I also had light gloves.
I did have an additional fleece vest and light track pants for those cool evenings. (Purchased along the way from Decathlon)

I would suggest you just do the best you can with packing - be prepared to cull early and discard additional items or post on to Ivar.
Above all, practice dispassion (don’t take things just because you love them)- and embrace the practical. We are all just (bedraggled) pilgrims.
PS. I used Robo’s video as my yardstick to stop me from putting extra things on my pack.
PPS. First Camino, in Pamplona I posted possibly 3kg back home
PPPS. Last Camino my pack was around 6.5 kg without food or water.
Buen Camino.
 
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My pack is lighter each time each time I go, but still every time I end up ditching things or sending them to Ivar to store for me. I've walked in Spring and Fall and this is my clothing list:

2 tee shirts (60% polyester, 40% cotton - very cheap - is my compromise, because I hate the feel of synthetics and even Merino wool makes me itchy)

1 pair of cargo shorts (I wore these every day, and the pockets were big enough for my phone on one side and my money, cards, passport in the other)

3 pairs of underwear, 2 bras

lightweight dress: I wore this for walking around town while my walking clothes were on the line.

long underwear, top and bottom, for early mornings or cold days: I wore these under my shorts and tee shirt when I needed them (which wasn't often)

down jacket (puffer). It was perfect: extremely lightweight and packed up really small. I also find that down is comfortable at a greater range of temperatures than fleece.

rain jacket (good for a windbreaker too, over the down jacket in the evening, if needed)

buff

baseball hat

You'll notice that I didn't have long pants or a long-sleeve walking shirt. That's my choice.

I occasionally forgot things on the clothes line and walked off, but I generally found good replacements in the Lost and Found box at the next albergue (a gold mine; also when you forget your charger adapter.. lots of people leave those behind).

Oh, and for footwear, I brought a pair Chaco sandals and Atra shoes/two pairs of socks, but most days I only walked in my Chaco sandals.

That's it, and everybody has a different formula for what works for them.
I wager that you will bring too much stuff.
 
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MainelyStina said:
I'm really struggling with figuring out the best layering options
Click to expand...

I try to keep the KISS principle in mind.

And, where possible, have one item for two tasks.

My layering, even now in the southern hemisphere winter, is:

130 grams - starting - short sleeve merino top (plus one in the pack) - all seasons

180 grams - For cool/cold mornings - long sleeve merino top ( no more in the pack).

200 grams - If really windy or wet (or both) - parka with long sleeves and hood - otherwise in the pack

090 grams - For really wet weather I also have a rain kilt in the pack.

On an OK day 600 grams in the pack - just 130 worn. Only duplication is the two short sleeve tops.

On my Saturday, 1 July (second month of my winter) I started with the short and long sleeve top. I started about 20 minutes after sunrise. The long sleeve top came off at the loo stop about 1 hour into the journey. Factors in that decision included, no wind, day was warming up and so was I.

Hope that helps your thinking.

But I am also very conscious, our as felt experience of cold and heat can differ markedly.

My biggest bugbear is my fingers - I always feel the cold with them. So use a lightweight pair of gloves that have a warm feeling and weight just under 100 grams in total. Coupled with waterproof mittens for the same total weight.

Kia kaha (take care, be strong)
 
Altus BALI Sleeping bag liner
Ideal sleeping bag liner whether we want to add a thermal plus to our bag, or if we want to use it alone to sleep in shelters or hostels. Thanks to its mummy shape, it adapts perfectly to our body.

€46,-
I use sun sleeves as, of course sun protection for my arms but they're also warm when layered underneath a jacket or 1/4 zip. Super light, I've found they can replace a long sleeve shirt. My pack was too heavy on my last Camino despite my careful choices. Working to get it to 5 kg for this next one.
 
My wife and I both have Patagonia Nano Air. They are more like a cross between a puffy and a fleece. There is no down but a layer of insulation that makes them really warm. They are intended as a jacket to keep you warm while exercising. They breathe, you don't sweat underneath them. They are very light, crush down into a small space and they can just be thrown into a machine. They dry overnight hanging up in a hotel room. I've had mine for 10 years on many trips and it is still in perfect condition. You can sleep in them if you have to. If it's cold and windy you just pull a Patagonia Wind short of or use your rain shell. If it gets wet they still insulate. They are quite expensive but amazing.
 

I might have to check one out.....
 
Let us pick up your suitcase once you arrive in Europe....
...and ship it to Santiago for storage. You pick it up once in Santiago. Service offered by Casa Ivar (we use DHL for transportation).
This is no doubt a classic of the genre of insulated mid-layer garments, but I'm not sure how well it is holding its place in an expanding field. The latest GearLab review doesn't rank it highly, only seventh out of the 10 products they reviewed in this category, ranked below several garments that are much less expensive (on the US market).
 
J Willhaus said:
It is possible to use your flip flop, a rolled up grocery bolsa, or in the case off my most recent AirBNB, a roll of garbage bags as a fly swatter!
Click to expand...
Those are great suggestions. I’m not travel with a roll of garbage bags I have a reusable bolsa, IDK if it would double as a swatter
I think it may be offensive to use my sandals at the dinner table
 
Let us pick up your suitcase once you arrive in Europe....
...and ship it to Santiago for storage. You pick it up once in Santiago. Service offered by Casa Ivar (we use DHL for transportation).
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