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Opinions please days 3 - 7; SJPDP to Uterga. Off & short-stage.

MARSKA

CF 2023, 2024, 2025?
Donating Member
Time of past OR future Camino
Sept/Oct 2023
I'd love to hear pilgrim suggestions for short-stages between Roncevalles and Uterga. Also any recommendations for places to stay overnight. Please, weigh in on my plan below! I wish to, as much as possible, stay off-stage and in lodging known to respect pilgrimage, to support the ongoing and important work.

I feel I will need a couple of easy days after SJPDP to Roncevalles (I am stopping in Orisson), and to acclimate to the CF. Maybe I'm being too cautious???? If so, please tell me & why! 10 miles (16KM) per day between Roncevalles and Uterga would be better than what I have shown below but Albergue spacing does not allow for 10 miles so I went with shorter distances.

65, female, from USA, in training (5'4" 160lbs) and healthy.

DAY/pass thru villages
START/DESTINATION​
​
Interim distance​
TOTAL FOR DAY​
DAY 3 ​
Roncesvalles to Bizkarreta​
​
​
7.2M, 11.5K​
Roncesvalles
​
Burguete Auritz​
​
1.9 mi​
​
Espinal​
​
2.2 mi​
​
DAY 4 ​
Biskarreta to Urdaniz​
​
​
8.4M, 13.5K​
Viscarret Bizkarreta
Batit ?
​
​
​
Maitetxu ?
​
​
La Posada Nueva ?
​
​
​
Linzoáin​
​
1.2 mi​
​
Zubiri​
​
5 mi​
DAY 5​
Urdaniz to Zabaldika​
​
​
7.7M, 12,4K
Ilarratz (Urdaniz)
Hostel Ace y Alla ?
​
​
Aka Aca y Alla
​
Larrasoana​
​
1.2 mi​
Aquerreta​
​
0.4 mi​
​
Zuriain​
​
2 mi​
​
DAY 6​
Zabaldika to Cizur Menor​
​
​
8.2M, 13K​
Zabaldika
​
A de Zalbaldika, Ch St. Esteban ?
​
​
Huarte​
​
0.4 mi​
-​
Trinidad de Arre​
​
1.9 mi​
-​
Villava​
​
​
0.3 mi​
-​
Burlada​
​
​
0.7 mi​
-​
Pamplona​
​
​
1.8 mi​
DAY 7​
Cizur Menor to Uterga​
​
​
7.5M, 12K​
 
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We took 5 days to get to Pamplona. Stayed at Orrison, Roncesvalles, Biskaretta, Zuriain. Then Pamplona. The place we stayed in Biskaretta is no longer run by the same couple and not sure it is even open now.
 
Looks good to me, though my preferred slower Camino stages are a little different.

I have previously walked Roncesvalles (2 nights) - Viskarret - Akerreta / Larrasoana - Pamplona (2/3 nights) - Zariquiegui - PR.

So very similar.
 
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If you want to stay off-stage near the start of your Camino, walk past Roncesvalles to Burguete (only 2 flat miles further). Hostal Burguete is quite nice. It’s an old Hemingway haunt, with a nice restaurant and away from the much larger number of pilgrims that you’ll find in Roncesvalles. On our last Camino, although we stopped for a celebratory beer at an outside cafe in Roncesvalles, the short additional walk was well worth the effort.
 
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MARSKA said:
Thanks for the comments! I was kinda under the impression most people did Roncesvalles - Zubiri- Pamplona - PLR. Which seems like a lot of distance right off the bat.
Click to expand...
Oof! Far too much in my opinion as there are some steep climbs along with rocky / loose stone terrain and the villages on this early section are totally different from anywhere else along the Camino. Those long guidebook stages are a recipe for injury as you are absolutely right - too far too soon in the Camino for many people.
 
Next week Phil and I arrive in Madrid. We'll train to Pamplona and then take the Artieda bus line to Zubiri in the early afternoon. We will walk to Hotel Akeretta (of The Way movie fame) and spend a luxury night to help us with jet lag. Then walk the next day partway to Pamplona. I will let you know what I think and where we stay. We have to pick up a rental car the 30th in Pamplona to drive to our volunteer location in Arres on the Aragon.
 
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MARSKA said:
Any place(s) you particularly enjoyed staying?
Click to expand...
I absolutely love Roncesvalles, but I always book the hotel for 2 nights rather than a night in the albergue. This gives me a lovely day to potter about the monastery and spend lots of time in the church as well as taking the guided visit through the other amazing buildings there.

I also loved staying at the hotel in Akerreta but sometimes they prefer guests to stay for two nights, which is a bit long for me in such a tiny village.

I also really like the Gran Hotel la Perla in Pamplona for 2 or 3 nights, though you mentioned a month or so ago that you prefer 3 star places.
 
Can't tell you about distances, etc. but in regards to Aca y Alla in Urdaniz I hightly recommend!
The host's name is Jesus so I've seem plenty of jokes about "The Place I found Jesus" all over the internet.
All-in-all IIRC there are 3 rooms, the largest holds maybe 12-14 folks. There are 2 nice comunal rooms (one is like enclosed veranda) and washer & dryer. And there is a POOL
Jesus is a wonderful cook and there were plenty of food on the table for dinner enoght for eberyone to dig into seconds and still some left overs. He also provided breakfast if you were so inclined (and since you are 'leisurely walking' - why not?)
My albergue in Urdanitz
Dinner
 
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My first night after SJPP (March 29, 2022) , I stayed in Burguete in a brand new albergue (so its now about 16 months since its opening) called Lorentx Alterpea. It was spotlessly clean with nice beds and great showers/bathrooms. It's on the main road about 100 yards prior to the main square. I will stay there again.
 
With all due respect you are clearly over planing the whole thing. Technically the Camino is just a path, not even a hiking trail, with all the services, cafes con leche etc. Why worry? Just be prepared for all the options. I believe the whole concept of the modern Camino is to let the people to face something that the well organized everyday life is depriving them. So, albergue A was better than albergue B… does it really matter? Go and discover your own ways!
 
Your spreadsheet leaves you well prepared - you have information about distances to accommodation. It might seem scary from sitting in front of your computer at home, but could I invite you to be confident that this information will serve you well. And when you get to France/Spain, see how you go....if you want to stop at the first village and stay the night there, then do so. If you feel strong enough to knock off more than you thought you might manage, then keep going if that pulls you on. Such freedom is one of the gifts of the camino to many who walk its paths. But it does have to be received. Noone can force you. Of course it may turn out that it stresses you completely to not know where you are going to lay your head and so you can then decide whether to learn to manage the distress or to remove it by booking ahead a day or two at a time. I would suggest not booking further ahead because that can become a stress too if you can't keep up with your schedule.
I love to know what my possibilities are and then see how my walk unfolds. You'll get to discover what works for YOU.
 
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MARSKA said:
Any place(s) you particularly enjoyed staying?
Click to expand...
Zabaldika, great atmosphere and shared dinner. One of my highlights.

Even if you don't stay (I see you are planning to) then walk up to the church, spend some time in contemplation inside then climb the narrow staircase to ring the bell.

Pilgrims are permitted to ring the bell.
 
MARSKA said:
Thanks for the comments! I was kinda under the impression most people did Roncesvalles - Zubiri- Pamplona - PLR. Which seems like a lot of distance right off the bat.
Click to expand...
Remember you are not most people. You are you and you can walk any way and as far as you want each day. What most people do, who cares????!!!!! Have fun and also you never know what may happen once you start walking and feel yourself get stronger and more confident.
 
I think this looks great! I love the idea of planning ahead and knowing where you’re spending each night. It gave me a total sense of freedom while walking - spent loads of time in prayer, meditation and just absorbing the absolute beauty!
 
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Wonderful! Thanks so much! Hope you enjoy Hotel Akeretta- it looks gorgeous. And most of all, thank you for the work you do helping others on the Camino routes. Aragon looks amazing.
 
With all due respect, I wonder why you opined that I am "over planning the whole thing". I will be on the Camino for 40-45 days. I posted a plan for 5 nights. A plan that I may or may not follow. Little more than a penciled sketch on a napkin.
 
Thanks Kiwi-family. Your positive comments are truly appreciated! The ability - no, the encouragement - to be be spontaneous and in the moment is a big factor drawing me to the Camino. Too few opportunities to be so free and I do see this as a gift of the camino, a gift which I expect to enjoy and pray that I use wisely and with reverence.

Like you, I love to see the "possibles" - researching a new-to-me country and making a few plans is kinda like creating a virtual reality so I can "see" places before arriving. Chatting on this forum is one piece of the virtual reality platform, I guess. I'm excited to see how the Camino unfolds and what discoveries await.
 
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MARSKA said:
With all due respect, I wonder why you opined that I am "over planning the whole thing". I will be on the Camino for 40-45 days. I posted a plan for 5 nights. A plan that I may or may not follow. Little more than a penciled sketch on a napkin.
Click to expand...
Your posting history shows you’ve sought opinion or authority on everything from underwear to waterproofs via near every damn start and stop on the Way. I think that what @koknesis is suggesting is it’s time to stop planning; stop anticipating; stop trying to perfect your Camino and just walk it. And may every day be full of pleasant surprises.

Your excitement and enthusiasm is tangible. But there’s only so much can be nailed down. What will you do on day three when the Camino throws you it’s first curve ball? What’s your plan B?

I sincerely wish you Buen Camino. May the road embrace you
 
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I would stress that it pays to be generally knowledgeable about your route without being too rigid in your planning. For example, if you know that there are towns located 12, 16, 21, and 25 kms from your starting point - and that the town at km 21 is a beauty and that the one at 16 has a highly-rated albergue, you will have a mind full of possibilities.

However, and this is the key, on the actual day, if the weather is great or crap, if it’s tough or easy terrain, if you are feeling worn or full of energy, you can make a reasonable same-day or even at-the-moment decision considering all these options.
 
Thanks Burton Axxe. What you posted is exactly what I am trying to do. I don't understand why people seem to oppose trying to be somewhat knowledgeable and prepared. But perhaps the problem is me - perhaps I am not expressing myself well.
 
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Tincatinker - portions of your post are concerning to me. I think if you read it again you will understand why. I'm sure you meant well but to me it's disconcerting.

Does not knowledge and preparation allow more freedom and the ability to engage in the Camino with greater spontaneity? To take on curve balls with grace? To avoid causing inconvenience, insult or harm to others out of ignorance?

From time to time I have been told that I ask too many questions or that my concerns are unimportant. I hope you have never experienced this type of rude and hurtful behavior. What I hear you say is that I am asking too many questions and my questions are frivolous. But that is just me interpreting your words in my own mind, based upon past experience.

Preparing intellectually, spiritually, and practically for ones first Camino is hard work. Perhaps it is easy to forget how much you did not know before you knew it? Learning the names of towns and villages (which are often referred to differently depending upon the source), learning the names of the accommodations (which are often referred to by multiple and differing names), where towns are located and in what order, how far apart they are from each other, available public and private transport to get from the airport to a starting place and how to return for the trip home, the terrain, the climate, the availability & location of food& water&beds, learning the difference and being able to identify hostels vs hostals vs private albergues vs municipal albergues vs pensions vs casa rurals etc., identifying and locating places that other pilgrims find special, learning the history and culture of the regions, refreshing language skills, learning what is and isnt needed in terms of gear and clothing - are, for me, necessary subjects for study and worthy of inquiry.

May the road rise up to meet you my friend.
 
@MARSKA I find it very refreshing to see you forge your own path on this forum. Continue to "float your own boat" and prepare for your Camino the way that works for YOU. I can see that some of the opinions are well meaning but sometimes they're given in a way that makes it feel like that is the only way and the right way. It is not.
 
MARSKA said:
Preparing intellectually, spiritually, and practically for ones first Camino is hard work. …… - are, for me, necessary subjects for study and worthy of inquiry.
Click to expand...
Right, it is your Camino as well the preparation is, but since you made it public, I will take the liberty of commenting your detailed planing efforts. The point is, that such detailed planing is required in “win-fail” situations, summit climbing etc. In contrast the Camino is “win-win”, and that’s the particular charm of Camino walking. Let me tell why I think this planing in detail is counter productive. In fact it turns the Camino into “win-fail”, because every albergue anticipated and not available, will become a failure. That is the way how the human brain works.
So, am I saying the best plan is no plan? Not exactly, because one needs to know the background in order not to miss the real important items. I have found that the best source is the guides the spanish regional governments publish. For Navarra you may find one here: https://www.visitnavarra.es/es/te-gusta/camino-de-santiago

Refreshing the Spanish comes as an extra benefit
Buen Camino!
 
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You can prepare all you want but remember there are days it rains buckets which can dampen your spirit and cut your walk short. There are blisters that pop up out of nowhere no matter how much preparation you did. So just take it a day at a time.
 
Like @koknesis my concern is for you and for the Camino that you eventually walk. You are asking for advice and that is useful to a point but the issue is that while you want expert advice you only want it for your very specific questions. Unfortunately the specific areas where are asking for advice are inconsequential. The experienced pilgrims on this forum understand that and they attempt to point that out to you, sometimes in an exasperated or sarcastic way but because the advice that they are trying to give you is in the consequential rather than inconsequential areas you are refusing to hear it.

Recently, on another thread @Kathar1na posted one of the most important posts in recent times. Basically the post said, in much more eloquent words, that the Camino Frances is probably unique in the world in that walking the 800 odd kilometres from St. Jean to Santiago provides a significant challenge with almost no risk.

You don't need to wear the perfect clothes, stay in the most interesting and unique places or do anything else except to understand where you will start and finish and to have enough money to support you in the level of comfort that you prefer whilst walking it.

Everything else can be sorted along the way.

The potential problem with asking all the questions that you have asked is that you will assemble the excellent answers that you have received into a set of expectations. Unfortunately, then, your Camino will fall short of the wonderful experiences that other people have experienced. Their experiences are their own.

You need to create your own experiences.

Please, for your own sake, stop trying to find the best answers to your questions unless your ultimate purpose is to write a guide of the very best way to walk the Camino Frances.

I wish you the very best for your Camino and I hope that you have the Camino that you need.
 
The win-fail and win-win is a great explanation! Thank you. I get it.
 
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Great reply and explanation. Thank you very much! I appreciate the thoughtful comments.
 
I also researched heavily, watched movies, read, etc. Before we walked, and although it is no replacement for the actual experience, I was not sorry. I knew my plan would not hold up completely and there would be some trouble spots. But I am glad that I did all the planning, reading, and watching. We each have our own comfort with the unknown as we each have our own opinions.

What works for one person is wrong for another and this forum is for opinions and reports of experience. You'll get lots of advice which you may take or leave as you wish.
 
I think there is a difference between a plan and a commitment. Plans are your best guess as to what you will want to do with the information you have at hand now. There is plenty of information you don't have (what the weather will be like, how you will be feeling, who you will be walking with and what they will want to do, what will be open or closed, etc., etc., etc.) that will need to go into the decision to make it the best decision possible. So go ahead and plan. But postpone the commitment as long as possible so you have as much information available as possible to make it.

Changing your plans because you have new information isn't a failure. But not following through on a commitment can feel like one. So that's why I love to plan but am reluctant to commit.

Also remember "Wherever you are is the right place. Whatever happens, in that moment, is the only thing that could happen." Don't second guess the decisions you make in the moment. They are the best you can do with what you have and they have a way of working out.
 
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I do not think that anything that @Tincatinker was trying to say should be taken as concerning. He is just expressing an opinion that for many people would be valid and even a source of relief. I know there is a spectrum of planning everything on ones camino to the minutia to walking without any guidebooks or preconceptions and just allowing everything to happen in the moment. I will say that, of course, on my first camino I was nervous and had anxiety. I walked with the Brierley guidebook and no phone and little knowledge. This forum helped for sure and I did speak to someone in my town about what to bring and thankfully she was a minimalist. My second camino I walked from Le Puy to Santiago with no knowledge of French, no telephone and a Michelin guidebook that was almost useless.
I know we are all different. We all have basic comfort levels. Basic knowledge of what one is doing is a good thing We can obtain knowledge in many ways. To simplify one was is by reading or research and the other way by doing. Of course there will be a mixture of both. I think there is a power and freedom when I achieve something by doing. As each challenge presented itself to me, especially from Le Puy, I just took things one step at a time. I walked some days much further than I wanted. I even walked some days with no food from breakfast until dinner. I had no ability to ask for help but I managed and succeeded and had a fantastic experience. The joy, pain, focus, meditative states, the aloneness, the days with virtually no conversation as no one I met in a gite could speak English and I had no smart phone for a translation, helped to teach me one of the great lessons of pilgrimage. All you need is yourself, all you have is the step you are taking, and all possessions that you need you can carry on your back. On pilgrimage, "Together we walk alone".
There is never a need to be concerned or bothered by what others have said. Often times, as I am sure you know, the best advice or knowledge you can receive is the words you may least want to hear because they may challenge what you say you "want" to learn or experience. That "want" may be cutting off the possibility of learning what you really "need".
What I am trying to say and what I believe others are saying also is to let things go. Allow your camino to unfold as naturally and as organically as possible. Just take things one step at a time. Because that step is all you have. Keep your eyes and ears and heart open and outward when your body tells you and when your body tells you look inward and introspective. Or just really let go and let everything out without question to allow something new to come in. Remember all the junk in your brain is what gets most of us on the camino in the first place. After all these years we should realize we may never figure it out and who the hell cares. Let something new and fresh and bright in. You have a long list of wants and expectations. Let them all go and just walk. Even with years of preparation, your first step may bring something you never expected or prepared for. There is such a joy and freedom in what to you may be chaos or uncertainty. Just a suggestion.
If you reject all this fine, and you walk the way you want. It is all up to you. But I have a feeling if you let it all go and just walk you will gain all the knowledge you need with each step and gain a lightness and joy you could never imagine or plan for. Buen camino
 
Only you know what you can do...we do not have enough information as to your walking/hiking level and experience to be able to give you any advice. Having said that, if you are looking for smaller first stage on the first day out from stjpd then maybe consider the Val Carlos route instead of the Napoleon route. When I walked the Camino Frances in 2018 and again in 2019, I met several hikers each with their own capacity and endurance. Some would walk the Way in 60 plus days and other in less than 30 days. One man (92 years old) was recovering from a stroke (he walked the last 100km), one was in a wheelchair (he was with a two others), one woman had a knee-brace (she would walk a maximum of 16km/day), one would try to walk less than 15 km per day, while others jogged some of the distances, or walked two to three stages per day on some days.

You do you.
 
MARSKA said:
allow for 10 miles
Click to expand...

The usual conundrum - thinking in miles at home when the signage en route will all be in kilo'metres.

Think of me as a grouch if it makes you feel better.

And I do know the feeling as I have a similar conundrum. I live in a km country and plan to do many walks in Great Britain, a miles country. Those I have to plan in miles because that is the signage I see when looking at street level images.

As @Ricardo Moretti says above (#35) only you know, form your experiences, what you think you can achieve. And when you get there you may find the conditions are different and you can achieve more, or less.

My suggestion is, even for the short trip between Saint-Jean and Uterga (3 days for me in 2016 aged 74):
  • either you see what the day brings and stop when you feel comfortable;
  • or ask a hospitalero/a phone ahead each morning.
Kia kaha (take care, be strong)
 
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Hi @MARSKA
Truly hope for a ‘Buen camino’ for you.
The ‘first camino’ always seems daunting.
lt56ny said:
Even with years of preparation, your first step may bring something you never expected or prepared for.
Click to expand...

So true…. It56ny
To Marska, the members who have responded above have aLeo experienced a wish to be prepared themselves ; and have thoughtfully given great advice. Though, most of us will only understand after ‘our own’ experience. There are so many more threads on this forum that could also help answer some of your concerns.
The following suggestions may be a repeat of other members - not sure, because although I have read through this thread; I am aware that you’ve posted several questions/threads that I haven’t seen. Limited time I’m sorry.
—- I’m wondering if you have used the ‘search ‘ function for this ? It’s great.
The site ‘Gronze.com’ is also kept up to date with lots of information.

—
When you are ‘there’ on your ist camino , you will also meet others who have either walked many times before or like you be a first timer. The usual thing occurs that people bond and ask questions / work things out together etc; (asking the advice on the spot that makes more sense ‘at the right time’ that is). I found that a lot of research I did before my 2nd camino was wasted because I didn’t have my computer research in front of me when I needed it.
So we move ahead and it all unfolds as our experience anyway. It’s all works out. Most of us end up wanting to go back again; sometimes to the same camino route or to one of the many in spain, Portugal , France. Etc.
Your experience and knowledge will grow each time. You’ll be looking at things in a new way. I guess what I’m trying to say is: Leave something for next time
I love this. It applies to anything in life.
 
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