On the Statistical Probibility of a Snore Free Albergue

[wisepilgrim]

I was reading a snoring thread earlier and it got me thinking about one of the curious nuances relating to snoring that doesn't come up too often. I wonder if there are any mathematicians in the audience who can provide a fancy explanation.

Why is it that it is so impossible to choose (when there is a choice) the room where there is no snoring?

I would imagine that picking the room with the least amount of pilgrims would increase the chances of a quiet night, hence the proliferation of albergues offering small dormitories. On the flipside, it would seem that a dormitory of 60 people would almost certainly be a poor choice.

And yet it is my experience that this is not the case; time and time again I choose the 4-bed room only to stare wide-eyed at the ceiling all night. And at the same time, some of the most peaceful nights of sleep have been in the mega dorms.

What gives?

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I was reading a snoring thread earlier and it got me thinking about one of the curious nuances relating to snoring that doesn't come up too often. I wonder if there are any mathematicians in the audience who can provide a fancy explanation.

Why is it that it is so impossible to choose (when there is a choice) the room where there is no snoring?

I would imagine that picking the room with the least amount of pilgrims would increase the chances of a quiet night, hence the proliferation of albergues offering small dormitories. On the flipside, it would seem that a dormitory of 60 people would almost certainly be a poor choice.

And yet it is my experience that this is not the case; time and time again I choose the 4-bed room only to stare wide-eyed at the ceiling all night. And at the same time, some of the most peaceful nights of sleep have been in the mega dorms.

What gives?

If you snore, there is zero chance!

 

[Purky]

I also usually choose (or get assigned to) the noisiest room. It's like deliberately trying to pick the fastest checkout line at the supermarket. I suck at that too. I fear that this isn't so much a statistical probability thing as it is some cruel law: with increasing hopeful anticipation of something happening, the likelihood of it happening decreases. It's Murphyesque. I'll keep an eye on this thread and hope for a fancy mathematical explanation with you.

 

[Mark McCarthy]

Depends if it is a random selection or not. Possibly the snorers are also choosing smaller dorms to minimise the number of people they inflict their snoring on.

 

[alexwalker]

I was reading a snoring thread earlier and it got me thinking about one of the curious nuances relating to snoring that doesn't come up too often. I wonder if there are any mathematicians in the audience who can provide a fancy explanation.

Why is it that it is so impossible to choose (when there is a choice) the room where there is no snoring?

I would imagine that picking the room with the least amount of pilgrims would increase the chances of a quiet night, hence the proliferation of albergues offering small dormitories. On the flipside, it would seem that a dormitory of 60 people would almost certainly be a poor choice.

And yet it is my experience that this is not the case; time and time again I choose the 4-bed room only to stare wide-eyed at the ceiling all night. And at the same time, some of the most peaceful nights of sleep have been in the mega dorms.

What gives?

You are suffering from the queue syndrome: If there are two lines, the other one is moving faster, and if you change queue, your original one will start moving faster than your new one. Also called the "Sh*t happens" concept. For a complete mathemathical description, read here:

http://people.brunel.ac.uk/~mastjjb/jeb/or/queue.html

 

[Mark McCarthy]

Maybe it’s something to do with the age profile of those who can afford smaller dorms. Up to 30 years of age, approximately 10% of males and less than 5% of females are snorers. In the population over 30 years of age, these percentages increase rapidly among males. Between 60 and 65 years of age, more than 60% of males and about 40% of females are snorers.

 

[trecile]

I prefer the larger rooms. They don't seem so intimate. When sleeping in a room with a lot of strangers I like everyone to be as anonymous as possible. Also, if there are snorers sometimes it's better if there is more than one, as the snores have a better chance to blend together to create "white noise".

And as far as age goes, one of the loudest snorers that I've shared a dorm with was a young, not overweight guy in his 20s.

 

[RENSHAW]

Aaah my dear 'WISE' pilgrim - you keep on choosing the room specially set aside for snoring pilgrims.
One of my camino friends called me from another room to witness a snorer who had kept him awake the whole night. This is where your equation may just come in ........ all I could hear was some chap breathing heavily so if one is SO sensitive then a score of 100% will always be achieved.
They will be there .......waiting just for you ....... you will not be disappointed.

 

[Sailor]

Good conversation, here are my two centimos. In small compartments the noise lacks space to travel and concentrates all around you, while in large compartments the noise travels and dissipates by the time it hits your ears. In the camino I had a sleepless nights in 4-6 person rooms, but slept well in the 100(+)-person room. Sigamos caminando, y que la luz de Dios alumbre su camino.

 

[Stivandrer]

Hmmm:
Snorers are definetely categorised in the male gender, most pilgrims are male.
As men grow older the growth rate withing the larynx rises proportionally faster than the rest of the body, in fact the rest of us shrinks, belly excepted. Nose, ears some hairs do the same.
A lot of pilgrim are older men !
Who is going to screen who is a snorer! I myself is not a snorer I would protest, my wife thinks otherwise...
So I would gladly sign up for a non snorers compartment, only to find out the next day that sadly I do .. snore!!
The numbers are stacked against the project, I am afraid!!
I must admit that until now I have slept like a baby in the company of heavy snorers, maybe I was socialized by the boyscouts, they are masters at that !

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Male/female split last year was 51/49, so the men barely outnumber women.

 

[Sailor]

Male/female split last year was 51/49, so the men barely outnumber women.

Wow, very interesting statistics, thanks for the information. Sigamos caminando, y que la luz de Dios alumbre su camino.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Ok, I contracted a bad cold/sore throat on every Camino although I rarely have one at home. I'm with Trecile on this. Although the cold I had ruined much of my sleep, it unfortunately did make me a loud snorer. I thought being in the small rooms of 4-6 persons would be beneficial, but I would lay awake although very tired and miserable, afraid to go to sleep because I didn't want my snoring to start up and disturb the others. It was just too intimate a setting, even though the small rooms sound like a great option. When I stayed in much larger dormitories, I was far more relaxed and felt a little more "incognito", hoping my snoring blended in with all the other snorers!

I don't recall ever hearing about special "snoring rooms" on any of my three Caminos. No hospitaler ever offered me a choice.

 

[Rick M]

Good conversation, here are my two centimos. In small compartments the noise lacks space to travel and concentrates all around you, while in large compartments the noise travels and dissipates by the time it hits your ears. In the camino I had a sleepless nights in 4-6 person rooms, but slept well in the 100(+)-person room. Sigamos caminando, y que la luz de Dios alumbre su camino.

I think you've got it. This isn't about statistics, its about acoustics. The brain dedicates a huge portion of its processing capacity to sorting out the incoherent noises it receives from your ears. Its interested in amplitude, frequency, duration, and proximity, so it can perform recognition and categorization, and decide whether to bother you with what it has found. Anything determined to be "close by" is high priority, that's just a safety protocol built in to the algorithm. Sounds bounce, and your ears are well aware of this phenomenon. In a small room, everything you hear is declared to be "close by" because of the echoes in the room...you are in an enclosed space. Test it yourself....anyone can tell roughly how big a room is when blindfolded, your ears can tell by the echoes whether you are aware of it or not. Pick the larger room, and your aural processor has a better chance of leaving you in peace, even if there is more aggregate noise from more snorers. All else being equal, pick the one with the high or sloped ceiling as well.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Bolitx, seasoned pilgrim and author of "The Great Westward Walk," dedicates a lot of ink to this subject. He writes:
"...my private list, a scientific study of the various types of snore to be heard in an albergue on any given night. The Common or Standard Snore, the Grunting Snore, the Snorting Snore, the Hurricane Snore, the Tic-Tac and the Tac-Toc, the Whisper Snore, the Motorbike Snore, the Whistle Snore, the Surround-Sound Stereo Snore, the French Snore (it´s true, you can snore with a French accent), the Gagging Snore, the Mumbling Snore, the Snorus Interruptus, and the magnificent Orthodontic-Raticulated Snore.
"In almost every albergue I have faced them and their immense, resounding power. Born snorers, true professionals, Olympic-grade, the best of the best. Seasoned, unscrupulous sleepers, born with the gift and improving over the years like wine in oak barrels..."

 

[Stivandrer]

-When I stayed in much larger dormitories, I was far more relaxed and felt a little more "incognito", hoping my snoring blended in with all the other snorers!
.

I concur !

 

[nycwalking]

Saw on FB.

Had to revive the thread.

 

[ginniek]

Good conversation, here are my two centimos. In small compartments the noise lacks space to travel and concentrates all around you, while in large compartments the noise travels and dissipates by the time it hits your ears. In the camino I had a sleepless nights in 4-6 person rooms, but slept well in the 100(+)-person room. Sigamos caminando, y que la luz de Dios alumbre su camino.

As well, the more bodies--and clothing and bedclothes and pillows, etc.--the more sound absorption there is. In a much more sophisticated way it is used by acoustics engineers in such things as concert halls--the more people in the audience and the bulkier their clothing, the more sound is muffled, etc.

 

[Tincatinker]

Hmm. Never encountered many acoustic engineers on the night trains across Europe and Asia but have encountered some spectacular snorers. Even the compressed sheep-wool inter-cabin insulation rolling down to obscurity didn't make much difference.

I snore. I sleep. Your experience may differ

 

[ginniek]

Hmm. Never encountered many acoustic engineers on the night trains across Europe and Asia but have encountered some spectacular snorers. Even the compressed sheep-wool inter-cabin insulation rolling down to obscurity didn't make much difference.

I snore. I sleep. Your experience may differ

The only acoustic engineers I've ever met have been on projects related to aircraft noise (both military and commercial). An F35 makes snoring sound like a cat purring.

 

[VNwalking]

What gives?

Everybody snores.

 

[trecile]

Everybody snores.

That's what I've always thought, but I can't tell you how many times I've been in an absolutely quiet dorm room afraid to fall asleep in case I am the snorer!

 

[LesBrass]

I joined forces with a very nice pilgrim once... we walked together during the day but that night I discovered that she snored louder (by a mile) than any snore I’d ever heard. My earplugs were no use. The second night She suggested that we share a private room and I had no way of saying no (without being rude)... so we shared a room. Oh that night was never ending.

Fortunately our pace meant we drifted apart shortly after this

 

[LesBrass]

That's what I've always thought, but I can't tell you how many times I've been in an absolutely quiet dorm room afraid to fall asleep in case I am the snorer!

Last time I was at Orisson it was so quiet I thought everyone had left without me... I couldn’t even hear breathing... or a rustle... it was very disorientating

 

[Stivandrer]

I had one night in Fuenterroble de la Salvatierra where no-one snored.
I know because I was awake most of the night due to back ache and feeding the stove too.
Something was definetely missing....