On leaving traces ...

[Anemone del Camino]

... or rather not. Be it graffitis, stones at the Cruz de Ferro or some form of cairn.

Applologies in advance for the last word. The work is not from me.

 

[Saint Mike II]

Take only photographs; leave only footprints - the rules in most National Parks in Oz. Might also be a good mantra for the Camino. I think I posted an article on this a few (maybe 6) months ago. I think it was along the lines of "don't rubbish Spain". To conclude - not a fan of graffiti or those with less intelligence who leave those "works of art"?

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I "almost" totally agree... but not leave a stone at Cruz de Farro? I thought pilgrims have been doing that for hundreds of years. I personally don't see that as graffiti, but as a beautiful pile of natural stones representing and expressing the countless prayers of pilgrims through the ages.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

It is not an ancient custom, it costs the locals a lot of money to dismatle and clean on a regular basis, it invites people to leave other "sentimental" objects which really end up simply looking like trash, and picking up stones along the way to drop off there distrubs the environment, there are other ways to express the same thoughts that do not leave a trace, anddon't impose your symbol on others walking after you. Just a few reasons why this goes together with graffitis.

There are many threads on the topic in the forum, this one is froma week ago: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/where-to-place-my-rock.50057/#post-545735

 

[Camino Chrissy]

It is not an ancient custom, it costs the locals a lot of money to dismatle and clean on a regular basis, it invites people to leave other "sentimental" objects which really end up simply looking like trash, and picking up stones along the way to drop off there distrubs the environment, there are other ways to express the same thoughts that do not leave a trace, anddon't impose your symbol on others walking after you. Just a few reasons why this goes together with graffitis.

There are many threads on the topic in the forum, this one is froma week ago: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/where-to-place-my-rock.50057/#post-545735

I just read the thread you shared. These mostly negative comments were interesting and I hadn't thought of leaving a stone behind as litter. I've brought a tiny stone with a one inch diameter to leave at Cruz de Ferro with a heartfelt prayer on each Camino Frances. If I walk the Frances again, I am not opposed to finding a new and private place to leave it and offer up a prayer...but I will still bring it. I see no harm in bringing a small stone from one place on earth and placing it in another.

 

[Kanga]

Stones are fine by me. It is the other stuff that people leave, sometimes with the deepest feelings - so it is rather difficult. I've walked with someone whose young child had died, and that person carried a soft toy the child had loved that they wanted to leave at the Cruz. Thankfully that did not happen.

"Looks like a rubbish heap" one person said to me recently.

 

[Rick M]

"Looks like a rubbish heap" one person said to me recently.

A rubbish heap? Of course its a rubbish heap. Here lies a symbolic pile of the collected pains, losses, dreams, indignities, devotions, crimes, hopes, betrayals, aspirations, griefs, convictions, fears, expressions of love, and every other human emotion that drives someone to travel far from home and embark on a month long walk through a foreign land. A quarter million someones, give or take, every year. Many who stop at Cruz de Ferro need to shed something. The point about the mess is well taken but lets face it, an emotional release like the ones I witnessed that miserable rainy afternoon can be an untidy business.

 

[Saint Mike II]

A rubbish heap? Of course its a rubbish heap. " ]

I have to agree, it is to a greater or lesser degree, treated by some as a rubbish pile. Back in 2015 there were half bottles of wine, nickers (very much used); bras (also used). The stones I totally accept; left 2 in 2015 & one last May. But I would truly love for those leaving notes to try to bury them under a larger stone. Oh and if you eat a snack here please used the trash bins, even if you have to walk 20 metres!

 

[Sparrow in Texas]

Last year I accidentally dropped my new wind stopper gloves at Cruz de Ferro. I hope that someone with cold hands found them and was able to use them.

 

[dougfitz]

Back in 2015 there were half bottles of wine, nickers (very much used); bras (also used).

I'm a little worried that you had to be physically rummaging through the detritus to know these things. I leave the knickers and bras where they are, without feeling the need get close enough to assess how well used they might be.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

A rubbish heap? Of course its a rubbish heap. Here lies a symbolic pile of the collected pains, losses, dreams, indignities, devotions, crimes, hopes, betrayals, aspirations, griefs, convictions, fears, expressions of love, and every other human emotion that drives someone to travel far from home and embark on a month long walk through a foreign land. A quarter million someones, give or take, every year. Many who stop at Cruz de Ferro need to shed something. The point about the mess is well taken but lets face it, an emotional release like the ones I witnessed that miserable rainy afternoon can be an untidy business.

Very eloquently stated. Very much how I feel, but you said it better.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

The problem with these sites that people assign meaning to is that while they start as a simole monument to indicate the highest peak, for example, they end up attracting all sorts of graffitis and other signs of "I have been here" which not only do not contribute but take away from what the site originally was. The cross on the Salvador is starting to go through this sad process.

Let's not even get into the nonsense of burning clothes in Fisterra, risking setting the cape on fire. How important do we think we are that the environment, and others, should be subjected to our need to perform such rituals that are only self serving?

And when you then think that these "traditions" really are not, that unsuspecting pilglrims who read about them in a guide book put so much meaning into this gesture thinking they are taking part in a historically rooted tradition, when it is not, is a bit sad.

I figure I shed quite enough sweat with every km that what ever I may have to get out of my system, mentally or physically, as I walk is getting out, that I don't need any symbol of it, it is truly happening.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

The problem with these sites that people assign meaning to is that while they start as a simole monument to indicate the highest peak, for example, they end up attracting all sorts of graffitis and other signs of "I have been here" which not only do not contribute but take away from what the site originally was. The cross on the Salvador is starting to go through this sad process.

Let's not even get into the nonsense of burning clothes in Fisterra, risking setting the cape on fire. How important do we think we are that the environment, and others, should be subjected to our need to perform such rituals that are only self serving?

And when you then think that these "traditions" really are not, that unsuspecting pilglrims who read about them in a guide book put so much meaning into this gesture thinking they are taking part in a historically rooted tradition, when it is not, is a bit sad.

I figure I shed quite enough sweat with every km that what ever I may have to get out of my system, mentally or physically, as I walk is getting out, that I don't need any symbol of it, it is truly happening.

Just to clarify, I have only left a small stone as a symbol of a prayer sent forth to the heavens. I have never even thought of it as an "I have been here" moment. A statement like that was the furthest thing from my mind, and most likely the majority of pilgrims who leave something behind are equally sincere. I do agree, the pile looks tacky when a myriad of tokens are placed rather than just stones, so I do understand the concern of "leave no trace".

 

[mspath]

For many comments re leaving traces or not see this earlier pertinent forum thread.
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/litter-pride-in-my-fellow-walkers.25079/

 

[bhavagrahidasa]

I have mixed feelings about leaving stones at the Cross as it seems to have become a much-loved tradition. Perhaps carrying a stone with us helps to focus our minds on to what it is we wish to leave behind and the act of finally laying a stone is also laying to rest that which has burdened us although it could be argued we do this internally anyway.

What does concern me is the ever increasing rubbish being left behind and so often because someone thinks it has some special significance to them which will very seldom be shared with other pilgrims. I have often thought how wonderful it must be to live on the Camino but that might not be so true soon.

I am looking out from my second floor flat window and wondering just what it might be like if the Camino ran past my little street in central London. Someone has left their boots over there, while another has tied ribbons to my neighbour's door handle. There is graffiti letting me know John was here and Tom was thinking of Mary "every step of the way" and even more random fabric tied to the black railings up the street. Food wrappers, and then, like a join the dots metaphor for filth, toilet paper in ever increasing quantities. More boots. Walking poles. I am sure you get the picture. It would not be long before my local Council had wardens out to catch and fine the perpetrators so why should we do it when walking the Camino?

I am ok with a stone being placed at the Cross if someone really feels it will help them. But I agree that people are now leaving anything and everything which may not be very helpful to the guardians of these places.

 

[Paladina]

... or rather not. Be it graffitis, stones at the Cruz de Ferro or some form of cairn.

Applologies in advance for the last word. The work is not from me.

Where on earth did you find this? I presume you were not taking a nature break at the Cruz de Ferro.

 

[Paladina]

A rubbish heap? Of course its a rubbish heap. Here lies a symbolic pile of the collected pains, losses, dreams, indignities, devotions, crimes, hopes, betrayals, aspirations, griefs, convictions, fears, expressions of love, and every other human emotion that drives someone to travel far from home and embark on a month long walk through a foreign land. A quarter million someones, give or take, every year. Many who stop at Cruz de Ferro need to shed something. The point about the mess is well taken but lets face it, an emotional release like the ones I witnessed that miserable rainy afternoon can be an untidy business.

There is no harm in shedding a tear. Charity shops would be a more suitable repository for all other cast offs.

 

[Paladina]

I have mixed feelings about leaving stones at the Cross as it seems to have become a much-loved tradition. Perhaps carrying a stone with us helps to focus our minds on to what it is we wish to leave behind and the act of finally laying a stone is also laying to rest that which has burdened us although it could be argued we do this internally anyway.

What does concern me is the ever increasing rubbish being left behind and so often because someone thinks it has some special significance to them which will very seldom be shared with other pilgrims. I have often thought how wonderful it must be to live on the Camino but that might not be so true soon.

I am looking out from my second floor flat window and wondering just what it might be like if the Camino ran past my little street in central London. Someone has left their boots over there, while another has tied ribbons to my neighbour's door handle. There is graffiti letting me know John was here and Tom was thinking of Mary "every step of the way" and even more random fabric tied to the black railings up the street. Food wrappers, and then, like a join the dots metaphor for filth, toilet paper in ever increasing quantities. More boots. Walking poles. I am sure you get the picture. It would not be long before my local Council had wardens out to catch and fine the perpetrators so why should we do it when walking the Camino?

I am ok with a stone being placed at the Cross if someone really feels it will help them. But I agree that people are now leaving anything and everything which may not be very helpful to the guardians of these places.[/QUOTE

Not far from where I live in the west of Ireland, visitors have taken to decorating a tree with assorted baubles and tokens of their presence. Local people have erected a large notice to the effect that this is not a fairy tree, and requesting the DIY decorators to desist from littering this scenic place. With this in mind, I spent half an hour at Cruz de Ferro picking up pilgrim debris - discarded clothing, lego bricks, business cards, food wrappers, handwritten messages blowing in the wind, etc. - and dumping it in the bins onsite.

 

[bhavagrahidasa]

There is no harm in shedding a tear. Charity shops would be a more suitable repository for all other cast offs.

Well said

 

[Rick M]

Just to clarify, I have only left a small stone as a symbol of a prayer sent forth to the heavens. I have never even thought of it as an "I have been here" moment. A statement like that was the furthest thing from my mind, and most likely the majority of pilgrims who leave something behind are equally sincere. I do agree, the pile looks tacky when a myriad of tokens are placed rather than just stones, so I do understand the concern of "leave no trace".

The pile IS an odd mix, but as you suggest, I bet the majority of pilgrims leave a simple stone. This is not an act of graffiti in my world, the motivations are much different. A few people feel the need to leave their underwear as Doug seems to have discovered......I'm still not sure that's graffiti. On the other hand, I discovered to my shock as I emerged from the woods to a clearing in the fog (spoiler alert for new pilgrims) that Cruz de Ferro is a local park complete with a parking lot, picnic tables and toilets. There were two bus tours while I was there, one full of school children, and the other with tourists. Perhaps the underwear was less a journey of religious devotion or self discovery, and more of a night time journey by a few local teenagers.

May I suggest that Cruz de Ferro is, in fact, a shrine? The practice of leaving tokens of devotion at shrines resonates in the human spirit, and has been practiced since........forever. As another poster has suggested, it would be very irritating to find pebbles, teddy bears, and underwear left on my London townhouse doorstep everyday. On the other hand, if I lived in an alcove in the local Basilica, I should have to get used to people placing lit candles on my doorstep.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

May I suggest that Cruz de Ferro is, in fact, a shrine? The practice of leaving tokens of devotion at shrines resonates in the human spirit, and has been practiced since........forever. As another poster has suggested, it would be very irritating to find pebbles, teddy bears, and underwear left on my London townhouse doorstep everyday. On the other hand, if I lived in an alcove in the local Basilica, I should have to get used to people placing lit candles on my doorstep.

But it is not a shrine, just a tourist trap, but in this case those paying the price are not the tourists leaving a trinket behind, but the community stuck looking at and cleaning the debris. Leave your thoughts, your tears, your sweat if you must, but it is not for others to live with what our "symbolic" gestures impose on them.

 

[Kathor1]

May I suggest that Cruz de Ferro is, in fact, a shrine?

A shrine to what? A shrine to whom?

There's usually mention of Romans, Celts, Tibetans and the rest of humanity past and present when the subject of the Cruz de Ferro comes up but there is actually no trace of any Romans or Celts etc ever having built anything in this particular place or left anything there.

All we know with reasonably certainty is that Galician seasonal workers had a custom connected to this place (in the 1800s + 1900s until agriculture became more mechanized and/or they no longer did the journey on foot) and contemporary pilgrims developed a similar custom in very recent times.

 

[Mark Barnes]

Wow, what a downer some of these comments are. I do not like sites to be trashed and hope that people respect and take care of the Camino so many future generations can enjoy it. I plan and will be bringing a rock with me next month to place at the Cruz de Ferro.

 

[Satírico]

... or rather not. Be it graffitis, stones at the Cruz de Ferro or some form of cairn.

Applologies in advance for the last word. The work is not from me.

Graffiti is the plural form. Apologies.

 

[Satírico]

Stones are fine by me. It is the other stuff that people leave, sometimes with the deepest feelings - so it is rather difficult. I've walked with someone whose young child had died, and that person carried a soft toy the child had loved that they wanted to leave at the Cruz. Thankfully that did not happen.

"Looks like a rubbish heap" one person said to me recently.

Is there an especially good source for information on the history of the Cruz de Ferro? I confess to being at something of a loss: 3x years ago I glanced at it as I walked by, not realizing this was the destination for symbolic offerings.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Graffiti is the plural form. Apologies.

Is that the only mistake you can fond in my posts? I am doing well then!

 

[Satírico]

Is that the only mistake you can fond in my posts? I am doing well then!

Two mistakes. Apologies was also misspelt.

 

[Kathor1]

Two mistakes. Apologies was also misspelt.

Yet you pointed out only one of the two mistakes. This tells us a few things :
You know that graffiti is a plural in Italian and does not take an "s" if used as a plural in English. You don't know that people who are fluent in several languages sometimes make a minor "crossover" mistake if they type quickly because, just as an example, graffiti does take a "plural-s" in other languages, such as les graffitis or die Graffitis. And that they often use devices set up for keyboard configurations for several languages where the autocorrect function fails or can be quite a pain in the neck for the impatient . Right, @Anemone del Camino?

 

[Levi]

The book 'The Pilgrimage Road to Santiago' by David Gitlitz and Linda Kay Davidson suggests the Cruz 'may result from a variety of ancient customs' including pre-Roman Celts and Roman travellers. And that 'the hermit Gaucelmo, who topped the pile here with a cross, essentially Christianised a pagan monument'.

I've left a significant amount of my sorrows at the Cruz and I'm very grateful that it was there to receive them...

...But I couldn't help wondering about the pilgrims who carried the large and very heavy blocks of masonry that form its base

 

[Rick M]

A shrine to what? A shrine to whom?

There's usually mention of Romans, Celts, Tibetans and the rest of humanity past and present when the subject of the Cruz de Ferro comes up but there is actually no trace of any Romans or Celts etc ever having built anything in this particular place or left anything there.

All we know with reasonably certainty is that Galician seasonal workers had a custom connected to this place (in the 1800s + 1900s until agriculture became more mechanized and/or they no longer did the journey on foot) and contemporary pilgrims developed a similar custom in very recent times.

You asked a direct question, so I feel obligated to provide a direct reply, even though I don't think I have much more to add to this discussion. I apologize in advance for the long post.

I looked up the European Union Cultural Division, Department of Antiquities and Shrines, and found a 2007 draft of the Policy for Entry and Certification of Shrines and other Cultural Heritage Sites. Section VI clearly describes the Criteria for Certification of Shrines. There is no mention of a shrine needing to be connected with any "Whom", or "What" to be considered, merely to the group that uses the shrine for a religious or cultural purpose. You know far more about the history than I do, but my interpretation of the four criteria provided suggests that Cruz de Ferro may meet the requirements for a shrine as follows:

Section V.I Certification Procedure

The applicant for Certification of a Shrine shall complete form C-1626 as provided in the Appendix. Current instructions for completion of the application, as well as the applicable fee may be found in http://eacea.ec.europa.eu/ps_1626.pdf.

Prior to submitting the application, the applicant should consider the criteria for EU certification of a shrine. For guidance, the agency will use four criteria to determine if the application should be approved. Applicant should ensure that each of the four policy criteria is adequately addressed in their submission in order to avoid delays in processing.

i. The proposed location shall have a definitive boundary that can be positively dated as having been established prior to 1626 by the group, or a predecessor group, as identified in (ii), and
ii. The proposed location is regularly or habitually used by an identifiable religious, ethnic, or cultural group as part of an established custom, practice, ritual, or ceremony connected to that group, and
iii. The proposed location includes a permanent monument, structure, or other recognizable appurtenance with a connection to the identifiable group established in (ii), and
iv. An organized religious order, cultural foundation, or government shall financially sponsor the site and guarantee upkeep and maintenance. Details regarding ongoing funding and maintenance should be clearly indicated.

Based upon these criteria, we could argue that the cross in the park is simply too young the be considered, but meets the other criteria. If we could find records of pilgrims using the site further back, we'd be in business.

Now before you go looking this up, you may have already realized that I completely fabricated the EU cultural department that certifies shrines, and there are no certification procedures , at least as far as I know. By these metrics though, we are pretty close to shrinedom. An astute observer might legitimately point out that there are pubs in London that also meet these criteria! And yet, an identifiable group does perform a religious/cultural ceremony at this location every day. Walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck - must be a shrine. Just not an ancient or certified one. Wishing you a Buen Camino.

 

[Deleted member 36903]

Nice one @Rick M but Emile Durkheim got there before you in his Elementary Forms of the Religious Life, so no fictitious EU department needed to lend authority.

 

[Satírico]

Yet you pointed out only one of the two mistakes. This tells us a few things :
You know that graffiti is a plural in Italian and does not take an "s" if used as a plural in English. You don't know that people who are fluent in several languages sometimes make a minor "crossover" mistake if they type quickly because, just as an example, graffiti does take a "plural-s" in other languages, such as les graffitis or die Graffitis. And that they often use devices set up for keyboard configurations for several languages where the autocorrect function fails or can be quite a pain in the neck for the impatient . Right, @Anemone del Camino?

Well no, actually, I pointed out both at the same time, just didn't make a big thing of the 'apologies' misspelling. Simply wrote it. Right, of course right.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Right, @Anemone del Camino?

Absolutely! Not that I could be bothered wxplaining it to an unilingual using autocorrect .

 

[Bradypus]

I fear for people's blood pressure if I post the photo. Some clowns apparently erected two small cairns on top of the heap of stones ...

@Kathar1na Thank you for your consideration. I passed by the Cruz de Ferro last year. What should have been a literal and metaphorical high point of my journey was actually spent seething in barely suppressed rage at the tawdry spectacle I encountered. A visceral response only matched when walking up the main street in Sarria and discovering what had become of a town for which I had previously had nothing but fond and grateful memories.

 

[Saint Mike II]

The pile IS an odd mix, but as you suggest, I bet the majority of pilgrims leave a simple stone. This is not an act of graffiti in my world, the motivations are much different. ...

May I suggest that Cruz de Ferro is, in fact, a shrine? The practice of leaving tokens of devotion at shrines resonates in the human spirit, and has been practiced since........forever. ... On the other hand, if I lived in an alcove in the local Basilica, I should have to get used to people placing lit candles on my doorstep.

Well Rick there actually is a real shrine at the Cruz de Ferro - if you have carefully observed up past the sun dial there is a rather small chapel. Unfortunately it has never been open when I have been there and in fact I have not been able to find one pilgrim who has been inside. I would be happy for someone who has been inside the describe it. On those really cold, rainy, windy days a quiet chapel would be welcome respite to contemplate why you are on your pilgrimage!!. Cheers

 

[Saint Mike II]

@Kathar1na Thank you for your consideration. I passed by the Cruz de Ferro last year. What should have been a literal and metaphorical high point of my journey was actually spent seething in barely suppressed rage at the tawdry spectacle I encountered. A visceral response only matched when walking up the main street in Sarria and discovering what had become of a town for which I had previously had nothing but fond and grateful memories.

I had a similar experience last May - no "rage" but some tears of total disappointment. (Ah - Sarria possibly my least favoured town on the whole camino!)

 

[Kathor1]

there is a rather small chapel. Unfortunately it has never been open when I have been there and in fact I have not been able to find one pilgrim who has been inside. I would be happy for someone who has been inside the describe it. On those really cold, rainy, windy days a quiet chapel would be welcome respite to contemplate why you are on your pilgrimage!

The chapel near the Cruz de Ferro was built in 1982 upon an initiative of one of the founders of the Galician Centre in Ponferrada.

There is a yearly pilgrimage - romeria - in honour of Saint James on the Saint's feastday, the 25th of July, organized by the Galician Centre. Many participants come by car, that's why they built the parking and did other necessary works to accommodate them. There's a fiesta with regional music and dancing and eating after the end of the religious ceremonies.

 

[Kathor1]

From an El Mundo article from 2011 [improved Google translation]:

• This iconic place of the Camino de Santiago, between Foncebadón and Manjarín, where hundreds of pilgrims who cross this place every day leave at its foot stones or other objects as testimony of their passing through.
• There are many legends behind it and one of them says that on the day of Judgment, "when the stones speak," they will testify that the person had fulfilled his pilgrimage in life, and if he had not thrown the stone, the pilgrimage would not be valid. [tradition of the pilgrimage to San Andres de Teixido]

The pilgrimage to San Andres de Teixido is better known to a Spanish audience than to an international audience. I think that several legends/beliefs are currently merging into a new tradition.

Photo of the pilgrimage in 2011:

 

[Bradypus]

@Kathar1na The connection you make with San Andres de Teixido is an interesting one and food for thought. I do wonder though if there are enough grounds to suggest that one is derived from the other. Perhaps the traditions in both places are independently drawing on some older and more widespread customs? Just speculation on my part.