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Computer's!?!? DAILY messages?? Hardly old school!I am an Old School Pilgrim, too set in my ways, I can understand and accept the Cell Phone priorities sweeping today's Pilgrim community back in the good old bad days coin-fed albergue computers working as fast as bicycle pedals were good enough for a daily message.
My first Camino was the year before the World Wide Web reached the general public. And also the year before the first GSM digital phone network. For all practical purposes no internet, no mobile phone service, and no email. When I reached Zubiri I bought 30 stamps for postcards to friends and family. I collected post from the Lista de Correos in a couple of towns along the way and phoned back to the UK from payphones three or four times. Hard to remember it here and now without sounding like the "Four Yorkshiremen" sketch or the marvellous "Capstick Comes Home" monologue. "Old school? Luxury!"Computer's!?!? DAILY messages?? Hardly old school!
What happened to a postcard every few weeks or so, or even ( rainy evening in an empty Hostel) a letter !
Today or even when I did my first Camino, the ability to develop this camaraderie with other pilgrims seems essential to the spirit of the pilgrimage. Seeing those familiar faces day after day in the trail, breaking bread with them at pilgrim dinners, or just sitting in the town square chatting at the end of the day adds IMHO that human component for why many of us walk. So although technology has changed many aspects of the Camino experience, some of the core ingredients are still alive and well.I can understand that many Pilgrims these days cannot devote too much time to the Camino and prefer to fast-track it in from Sarria or Porto while losing the camaraderie built over days and days of walking with other pilgrims .
My first Camino was 2008 phone cards and wonky computers, does qualify me for Old School, on a later Camino there was some guy with a satellite phone something he size of a shoebox/ also could not relateComputer's!?!? DAILY messages?? Hardly old school!
What happened to a postcard every few weeks or so, or even ( rainy evening in an empty Hostel) a letter !
My first Camino was 2008 phone cards and wonky computers, does qualify me for Old School, on a later Camino there was some guy with a satellite phone something he size of a shoebox/ also could not relate
Luxury... In my day we slept in a lake...My first Camino was the year before the World Wide Web reached the general public. And also the year before the first GSM digital phone network. For all practical purposes no internet, no mobile phone service, and no email. When I reached Zubiri I bought 30 stamps for postcards to friends and family. I collected post from the Lista de Correos in a couple of towns along the way and phoned back to the UK from payphones three or four times. Hard to remember it here and now without sounding like the "Four Yorkshiremen" sketch or the marvellous "Capstick Comes Home" monologue. "Old school? Luxury!"
In 1981 I had a room in the annexe of a student hall of residence known to its inmates as "the shoebox". Of course there was a little pastiche of the famous sketch....Luxury... In my day we slept in a lake...
Love a Four Yorkshiremen reference
Umm - I was thinking of the 1980's/90's in order to qualify as 'old school' - definitely pre millennium (2000). Before internet cafes became widespread for example (the 1st of which opened in 1994). Phone boxes that took actual coins.... .My first Camino was 2008 phone cards and wonky computers, does qualify me for Old School, on a later Camino there was some guy with a satellite phone something he size of a shoebox/ also could not relate
I'm a high school teacher and can straight faced deliver lines from it to confused pupils hahaIn 1981 I had a room in the annexe of a student hall of residence known to its inmates as "the shoebox". Of course there was a little pastiche of the famous sketch....
This sounds like my own travels around Europe in the '80's and '90's.. difficult as it was then, having to deal with multiple currencies, traveller's cheques and paper maps, phrase books and depending often on the kindness of strangers, phoning home with a fist-full of coins every few weeks to let them know I was still alive..I was most definitely an old school traveller though - reading guide books in the library, going to visitor information centres in the touristic areas, collecting ideas from fellow wayfarers as to destinations, places to stay etc in a notebook ( the paper kind); figuring out how to get to my destinations with a few words of the local patios & sign language - whilst always hoping for that one friendly local who spoke English to come along. Always trying to be one step ahead of the person who was writing the 'Lonely Planet' before they ruined our hidden getaways by telling the world about them. Always carrying food/coffee, a sleeping bag and perhaps even a sleep mat, hoping to find a cheap hostel or pension, but being prepared to sleep in the railway station, in an abandoned building, or under a bridge if necessary.
My first Camino was in the autumn of last year. I did carry a mobile phone but did not contact anyone but those I met along the Way to maybe coordinate for a meal together or to book accommodation for the next night. I brought postcards and stamps along the way to write home to family. I felt this left me with the head space to immerse myself in the experience, challenges and joys.My first Camino was the year before the World Wide Web reached the general public. And also the year before the first GSM digital phone network. For all practical purposes no internet, no mobile phone service, and no email. When I reached Zubiri I bought 30 stamps for postcards to friends and family. I collected post from the Lista de Correos in a couple of towns along the way and phoned back to the UK from payphones three or four times. Hard to remember it here and now without sounding like the "Four Yorkshiremen" sketch or the marvellous "Capstick Comes Home" monologue. "Old school? Luxury!"
Albergues still keep Pilgrim Guestbooks, but they have evolved from Information Exchange boards into "thank-you" notes for the hospitaleros. Gratifying for a few, but not very compelling reading!This may not qualify for old school exactly but during my first Camino in 2001 we had a primitive version of WhatsApp to get messages to new friends we met along the way. Most refugios (aka alberges) had guestbooks where we’d leave a note for people we’d lost track of. This worked well if they had fallen behind so you could say where you anticipated being on a certain date and time. For those that were ahead we’d rely on one of those fast pilgrims to keep their eyes out for friends to pass any messages on. The Camino grapevine. Somehow it all worked out. I wonder if any of those books are still around, they could be an interesting read!
My 1990 Compostela was stored folded in half inside a hard-cover A5 notebook and the signature still managed to fade to near- invisibility!The signature on the 2003 is almost gone already
Meant as a joke, I assume, but sadly it's probably ¾ true.Pretty soon not blogging, vlogging, flying a drone, or TikTokking will qualify anyone as old-school.
This may not qualify for old school exactly but during my first Camino in 2001 we had a primitive version of WhatsApp to get messages to new friends we met along the way. Most refugios (aka alberges) had guestbooks where we’d leave a note for people we’d lost track of. This worked well if they had fallen behind so you could say where you anticipated being on a certain date and time. For those that were ahead we’d rely on one of those fast pilgrims to keep their eyes out for friends to pass any messages on. The Camino grapevine. Somehow it all worked out. I wonder if any of those books are still around, they
Can you look at the pilgrim guest books? Or are they confidential? Can you see if someone has arrived?Albergues still keep Pilgrim Guestbooks, but they have evolved from Information Exchange boards into "thank-you" notes for the hospitaleros. Gratifying for a few, but not very compelling reading!
You can look at the guest books, but NOT the actual registrations. Those are covered under the new privacy laws.Can you look at the pilgrim guest books? Or are they confidential? Can you see if someone has arrived?
I'm not so sure I prefer the design of the "old school" Compostela certificate to the new design. The old school one is designed to look like an 18th century print (or or less) and the newer one to look like a medieval manuscript page. Since the Camino was in decline in the 18th century and at a height of popularity in the middles ages*, the latter actually seems more appropriate. Your mileage may vary, of course.I am an Old School Pilgrim, too set in my ways, I can understand and accept the Cell Phone priorities sweeping today's Pilgrim community back in the good old bad days coin-fed albergue computers working as fast as bicycle pedals were good enough for a daily message. I can understand that many Pilgrims these days cannot devote too much time to the Camino and prefer to fast-track it in from Sarria or Porto while losing the camaraderie built over days and days of walking with other pilgrims . My only real regrets concern the certificate you receive in SdC. The Better Half won't allow me to display all my certificates so I will present only my displeasure, see here one Old School Certificate from a Holy Year, the other, the modern version now in fashion. Happy with both not hard to see which one I preferView attachment 172853View attachment 172853View attachment 172854
No thanks. The wifi-free zone does not bother me -- I'm not here to freeload on anyone's bandwidth. I carry my own hotspot for a cost that amounts to decimal dust.
I tend to agree with you about the aesthetics here. What follows is just a riff on the post.I'm not so sure I prefer the design of the "old school" Compostela certificate to the new design. The old school one is designed to look like an 18th century print (or or less) and the newer one to look like a medieval manuscript page. Since the Camino was in decline in the 18th century and at a height of popularity in the middles ages*, the latter actually seems more appropriate. Your mileage may vary, of course.
* I used to say "the height of popularity" in the middle ages, but I think current numbers are giving medieval numbers a run for their money, if not exceeding them.
I think it is a fine balance. At the same time that these rural areas are being asked to support a lot more pilgrims, they are also needing to support a lot fewer locals. The depopulation of rural parts of Spain as the younger generation moves to the cities is a real thing in Spain. We can be like locusts, but we can also be the difference between the village having a little tienda that is open every day or the village seeing a van coming through once a week, between the village having a bar (which we know is much more than just a bar in Spain - more of a social centre) and not. We can provide opportunities that bring some people back or keep them in these areas.I tend to agree with you about the aesthetics here. What follows is just a riff on the post.
Percentage of world population though? raw numbers vs. relative...
But I *am* concerned about over-tourism environmental impacts in some areas. I noticed on this recent walk that many of the fountains from Astorga to Palas de Rei (where I stopped walking) had been capped... maybe it's drought, maybe it's local cost issues... but clearly it's more than the locals can handle giving away anymore.
There are places where we seem to be a bit like locusts... going through and eating all the cheese, drinking all the wine (the big corporate suppliers may like this, but truly: there's only so much DOP Bierzo wine, Esplette pepper, Queso Tetilla, etc that can be produced in a very small region...).
Just some thoughts as I ponder numbers...
Walking at odd hours I did find even the Frances from Sarria could provide solitary time... BUT being out of my nightlines, doesn't change the impact of 2000 sets of feet travelling the path each day.
I wish things were more spread out... talked to a bar owner and taxi driver who offered to me that whether there are too many walkers or not is a view influenced by what side of Sarria you live on if on the Frances. A similar observation may apply to the other 100 km points soon enough.I think it is a fine balance. At the same time that these rural areas are being asked to support a lot more pilgrims, they are also needing to support a lot fewer locals. The depopulation of rural parts of Spain as the younger generation moves to the cities is a real thing in Spain. We can be like locusts, but we can also be the difference between the village having a little tienda that is open every day or the village seeing a van coming through once a week, between the village having a bar (which we know is much more than just a bar in Spain - more of a social centre) and not. We can provide opportunities that bring some people back or keep them in these areas.
Overall, I think more pilgrims are probably on balance, good for the area - if they are spread out somewhat over space and/or time. The more we spread ourselves out, the more the area can sustain us and the more the area will benefit from us. And I'm not only saying that because my next Camino will be in November.
Love this post!! Remember entering a village (before "not-so-smart-phones") and looking for the "locotorio", which was a place with a couple of the coin fed computers you mentioned, and phone booths? My wife and I walked our first Camino 12 years ago, leaving our two teens at home with a relative and called to check in on them when we were lucky enough to find a locotorio...always an adventure and a treat! We never booked a bed or room ahead; finding a place to sleep was part of the challenge of the Camino. And yes, we'd spend time at the end of each day writing down our experiences and thoughts in our journals, over a glass of wine or beer, in the quiet of the albergue community room. Now the locotorios are gone, as well as the quiet, because people just can't pull away from talking constantly on their handhelds - and usually on video speaker - which is so sad and not to mention, annoying. Upon our return home, we found our kids managed just fine and even missed us, thanks to the inability to constantly keep in contact with them! We still have those journals to look back on, which is much more meaningful than a slew of Instagram posts. I'd love to see more people try the "Old School Way"....Thanks for posting!I am an Old School Pilgrim, too set in my ways, I can understand and accept the Cell Phone priorities sweeping today's Pilgrim community back in the good old bad days coin-fed albergue computers working as fast as bicycle pedals were good enough for a daily message. I can understand that many Pilgrims these days cannot devote too much time to the Camino and prefer to fast-track it in from Sarria or Porto while losing the camaraderie built over days and days of walking with other pilgrims . My only real regrets concern the certificate you receive in SdC. The Better Half won't allow me to display all my certificates so I will present only my displeasure, see here one Old School Certificate from a Holy Year, the other, the modern version now in fashion. Happy with both not hard to see which one I preferView attachment 172853View attachment 172853View attachment 172854
You know you are old when you are surprised to learn that people think the "good old days" included computers or mobile phones of any type!I am an Old School Pilgrim, too set in my ways... back in the good old bad days coin-fed albergue computers
This sounds like my own travels around Europe in the '80's and '90's.. difficult as it was then, having to deal with multiple currencies, traveller's cheques and paper maps, phrase books and depending often on the kindness of strangers, phoning home with a fist-full of coins every few weeks to let them know I was still alive..
It was a glorious time before the internet and the smartphone!
Yes, so true. We had time then, didn’t we?and spending hours on the phone for several days before reservations could be changed
I personally do not think of the "old days" as necessarily the "good old days."You know you are old when you are surprised to learn that people think the "good old days" included computers or mobile phones of any type!
Excuse me just taking a snapshot of your excellent post, it is indeed a wonderful time to travel.IMO, now is a wonderful time to travel with internet and a smart phone and ATMs. Isn’t it really about how and when we use these tools?
Yes, parts of it were. For me personally it was certainly simpler. I loved dropping off the grid for weeks, even months at a time, going wherever my last night's conversation (and funds!) permitted. Dropping the odd postcard or occasional letter to valued people as proof of life.It was a glorious time before the internet and the smartphone!
Exactly!the best of both worlds!
Except that maybe we didn't have as much time off, and the relative airfares (compared to disposable income) were extremely high!In the past we had the ability to get away from overbearing, demanding bosses/ friends/family members when we traveled
I don’t disagree with the points you made either. But another perspective on a demanding boss is…who is to say, that prior to cell phones, the boss might not let a worker go who on a Camino because in an emergency the walker might not have beExcuse me just taking a snapshot of your excellent post, it is indeed a wonderful time to travel.
But then it has been for many years - with or without cell phones. My mother made a world trip way back in the late 50s/ early 60s, everything was a lot slower (and the photos were inevitably presented as slides!) to. But the slowness of the journeys was a positive in itself.
My own travels started in the late 1980s, just as air travel became dramatically cheaper. Cheaper, faster, but not necessarily better.
You've done 10 more years of travel than I but nonetheless I relate very much with a great many of the points you raise about these tools - because tools they are. You successfully highlight most of technologies positives.
But technology has its dark side too. I hear stories time and again of people who have horrific employers demanding that they be contactable at all hours of the day and night, checking their keystrokes, the number (and length!) of the bathroom breaks they make, questioning the length of time they spent stopped at a cafe or petrol station whilst on a road trip - the list goes on.
In the past we had the ability to get away from overbearing, demanding bosses/ friends/family members when we traveled - because we simply were not contactable. No longer. (If you're strong enough to turn off your phone, you're strong enough to tell them to 'back off' in the first place).
This forum has a policy setting out guidelines about posting reports of missing pilgrims - and quite rightly. Occasionally those people are not missing at all - they have deliberately dropped off the grid. And it's up to all of us to respect that. If the technology didn't exist, the policy wouldn't need to either.
Previously a thief could only steal the cash that I was carrying. (The travellers cheques were absolutely useless to them). Although technically it is more secure, electronic banking, credit cards etc have all increased the possible number of ways that people can steal from us, and how much they can potentially take.
Information technology: Cyber security is a major issue nowadays, a hacker can divulge the private information of thousands of people with a simple keystroke.
Other disadvantages of the technological age is the reduced social skills that have occasionally eventuated from excessive technology usage, addiction to technology, difficulty retaining information and so forth. Whilst technology helped us during coronavirus, it hindered us too. Some young people are struggling to this day with the issues they developed during the enforced isolation which technology allowed.
And on camino it's very easy to retreat to our phones/kindle etc at the end of the day, whether it's to contact loved ones, listen to our music, or simply browse the forum. In the past I had to physically write a journal, and if I wanted contact with somebody, I had to talk to those around me. Playing cards or a board game was always a great icebreaker, regardless of language.
Technology has also taken away a little of the magic of travel. I was traveling for nine years from the late 80s through the 90s, and I knew little about where I was going other than from some documentary or book. Frequently the decision on where to go next was made by listening to a fellow traveler over a shared meal in a hostel, or discussed during a shared bus or train journey.
Nowadays it's hard to avoid the plethora of information that is available to you on every destination possible. Previously you had to seek the information, now you have to avoid overload.
I don't miss for an instant sleeping in train stations or under a bridge, but then neither do I regret the experience. And the 'stresses' of finding a bed for the night in a strange town have not been reduced (as many posts here on the forum will attest). In fact if anything I believe people worry about it more now than they did previously.
I could go on, but this post is already far too long.
Yes, parts of it were. For me personally it was certainly simpler. I loved dropping off the grid for weeks, even months at a time, going wherever my last night's conversation (and funds!) permitted. Dropping the odd postcard or occasional letter to valued people as proof of life.
I'm far more accountable now.
But without the internet and the smartphone we wouldn't be connected. And that, I would miss.
Not all was good, not all was bad.
Exactly!
Delightful website, thank you. And interesting that Route B starts near Perpignan not SJPP!I guess you're showing two Compostela's? One from 2010 and one from 2012. It looks like they used a illustration from the codex calixintos on the one from 2012 which is identical to the one I got a couple months ago. I agree that I like the design of the older one better, but I think the illustration is much newer than the illustration on the current Compostela.
I found a web article which shows some pictures of some old Compostela's and discusses them in general. In the past they used to give out medals instead, according to the article.
CREDENCIALES AND COMPOSTELAS
Credencial del Peregrinos Origins: The ‘Credencial’ or pilgrim’s passport evolved from letters of safe passage granted by the churc...amawalker.blogspot.com
View attachment 173418
And at the bottom of that article is a link to a blog post in Spanish, which seems to have much more detailed information about Compostela's. And this article is about a Spanish language book on Compostelas that is available on Amazon Kindle.Delightful website, thank you. And interesting that Route B starts near Perpignan not SJPP!
What I found interesting from amaWalker : CredentialI guess you're showing two Compostela's? One from 2010 and one from 2012. It looks like they used a illustration from the codex calixintos on the one from 2012 which is identical to the one I got a couple months ago. I agree that I like the design of the older one better, but I think the illustration is much newer than the illustration on the current Compostela.
I found a web article by member @sillydoll (Ithink) which shows some pictures of some old Compostela's and discusses them in general. In the past they used to give out medals instead, according to the article. ( @sillydoll ,I can delete the photo if you want).
CREDENCIALES AND COMPOSTELAS
Credencial del Peregrinos Origins: The ‘Credencial’ or pilgrim’s passport evolved from letters of safe passage granted by the churc...amawalker.blogspot.com
View attachment 173418
Very interesting. I imagine cars were much rarer in Spain at that time. I wonder when the rules were formalized?What I found interesting from amaWalker : Credential
“Once they arrived in Santiago they could ask for the pilgrim diploma which was funded by the Ministry of Information and Tourism and signed by the Archbishop of Compostela. This was issued in the Holy Years of 1965, 1971 and 1976. 428 credenciales were issued to both car and walking pilgrims in 1965.
Is it possible that we project what We define a “pilgrim” to be?
And those 1965 numbers are Holy Year numbers. My how it has grown!What I found interesting from amaWalker : Credential
“Once they arrived in Santiago they could ask for the pilgrim diploma which was funded by the Ministry of Information and Tourism and signed by the Archbishop of Compostela. This was issued in the Holy Years of 1965, 1971 and 1976. 428 credenciales were issued to both car and walking pilgrims in 1965.
Coming by car on a pilgrimage to SdC in 1965! Gee was that motorized? Apparently Archbishop was n’t hung up then on how someone could get there? I’m not familiar with Camino history… but when I read this post about cars, it makes me pause and wonder, are we too judgmental about how others make their way to SdC, and if they are “real” pilgrims. Is it possible that we project what We define a “pilgrim” to be?
1982 there was a Holy Year plus a visit from the Pope and the Compostela total for the year was still under 2,000....And those 1965 numbers are Holy Year numbers. My how it has grown!
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