LIVE from the Camino No boundaries for lack of respect

[ophelia]

Hi everyone,

I am not intending to rage or start arguments, but I am posting this so people can be aware.

It may be hard to share a space such as an albergue with other people. Where do we cross the line between what we want to do and other's personal space? As delicate as this can be, I believe that normal education and common sense are key. So, posing the scenario of several, and I mean several, people already fast asleep in a room, would it be ok for most of you fellow pilgrims, just to enter said room blasting, talking really loud, turning on the lights ans basically waking up everyone? Would it be ok if I wake up like at 5am and do the same, just turn on the lights and wake everybody up?

We are in the camino as we are in life is, for me, one of the most real sayings about the camino. I guess that if you are rude, selfish and not aware of your surroundings, this is the kind of situation that you will create. People will sing together, dinner together and share this life time experience. But I guess that at the end of the day, if you don't care about others, this is what you are gonna do.

I am just appealing to some common sense to be used. Some good manners would be appreciated. People have all afternoon to prepare their rucksacks and put things they need aside. This is also why flashlights were created. But no. Just turning the volume up and wake up everyone for no reason whatsoever. Excuse if I sound angry, but I am. Just so rude.

 

[kelleymac]

I am sorry you've had to go through this. It's really hard when people are so inconsiderate, especially when everyone is so tired and needing rest. Can you talk with the people who run the albergue? Perhaps signs could be put up-- explaining lights off and quiet time?? It's frustrating that it would even need to be necessary.

I wish you peace and rest.

 

[Anniesantiago]

Welcome to albergue life.

 

[Waka]

Hi everyone,

I am not intending to rage or start arguments, but I am posting this so people can be aware.

It may be hard to share a space such as an albergue with other people. Where do we cross the line between what we want to do and other's personal space? As delicate as this can be, I believe that normal education and common sense are key. So, posing the scenario of several, and I mean several, people already fast asleep in a room, would it be ok for most of you fellow pilgrims, just to enter said room blasting, talking really loud, turning on the lights ans basically waking up everyone? Would it be ok if I wake up like at 5am and do the same, just turn on the lights and wake everybody up?

We are in the camino as we are in life is, for me, one of the most real sayings about the camino. I guess that if you are rude, selfish and not aware of your surroundings, this is the kind of situation that you will create. People will sing together, dinner together and share this life time experience. But I guess that at the end of the day, if you don't care about others, this is what you are gonna do.

I am just appealing to some common sense to be used. Some good manners would be appreciated. People have all afternoon to prepare their rucksacks and put things they need aside. This is also why flashlights were created. But no. Just turning the volume up and wake up everyone for no reason whatsoever. Excuse if I sound angry, but I am. Just so rude.

Maybe I was just lucky but I've never experienced bad inconsiderate behaviour in the albergues on my journeys, I've only stayed in the Municipal and found them ok, some better than others, but the other guests have all been really nice and considerate.
I'm sorry you haven't experienced this.

 

[LesBrass]

That doesn't sound too good... We kind experienced the reverse a couple of days ago. We were in a large shared bedroom and maybe 6 of us were talking together at only 8.15pm... 3 pilgrims had gone to bed (although as it was so early we simply didn't realise). One of them became very angry with us and shouted and was very rude to two late arriving pilgrims. We felt quite sad to be shouted at like naughty children... And of course those three were the ones leaving at 6:00 with noise and head torches in the morning.

I did wonder if maybe they slept in a little longer they wouldn't need to go to bed quite so early... And they could have enjoyed the evening with the rest of us?

I guess everyone is different ... I hope you enjoy the rest of your walk

 

[Anamiri]

We met a guy and his wife in their mid-late 60's; they would normally have been quite pleasant I think.
However he bought shoes that were too small, decided to walk barefoot, but that made him slower, so he started early. I mean early like 3-4am. He had other shoes with him (but was saving them? for what?)
In the comedy of errors that this was, he was also quite deaf.
So in the very early hours, he would wake, rustle, talk to his wife (very loudly because he was deaf), she would shhh him (loudly so he could hear). It would take them ages to get ready.
I think her shhhing was worse than his talking.
In no time the entire room would be awake, just waiting for them to leave.
They never turned the light on, one blessing.
We decided to walk a longer day, and ditch them, so I think did half the room. We never saw them again.

 

[RJM]

Yes, it sucks when fellow pilgrims are so rude, egocentric and inconsiderate, but fortunately it is fairly rare on the Camino and the next day it's over.
and it is funny sometimes when the rude early in the morning think others are rude for not being in bed before 9:00 pm...

 

[Deleted member 67185]

Hi everyone,

I am not intending to rage or start arguments, but I am posting this so people can be aware.

It may be hard to share a space such as an albergue with other people. Where do we cross the line between what we want to do and other's personal space? As delicate as this can be, I believe that normal education and common sense are key. So, posing the scenario of several, and I mean several, people already fast asleep in a room, would it be ok for most of you fellow pilgrims, just to enter said room blasting, talking really loud, turning on the lights ans basically waking up everyone? Would it be ok if I wake up like at 5am and do the same, just turn on the lights and wake everybody up?

We are in the camino as we are in life is, for me, one of the most real sayings about the camino. I guess that if you are rude, selfish and not aware of your surroundings, this is the kind of situation that you will create. People will sing together, dinner together and share this life time experience. But I guess that at the end of the day, if you don't care about others, this is what you are gonna do.

I am just appealing to some common sense to be used. Some good manners would be appreciated. People have all afternoon to prepare their rucksacks and put things they need aside. This is also why flashlights were created. But no. Just turning the volume up and wake up everyone for no reason whatsoever. Excuse if I sound angry, but I am. Just so rude.

I tend to think of Alburgue life as having the qualities of summer camp, without a counselor to keep some semblance of order. Without a resident monitor to enforce things like noise limitations and lights out curfews, one is at the mercy of Obliviots. Sometimes the Obliviots are few and far between, at other times you feel like you are between a gaggle of Obliviots. Sometimes peer pressure from the group keeps the Obliviots at bay, at other times it seems the peer group is content to let the Obliviots bay.

It seems that any discussions wishing or hoping for even minimum standards of behavior and expectations, draws criticisms by those who include any such discussion as imposing on the vaporously undefined notion of "My Camino". To be sure, there is a definite and positive rationale for respecting the concept of "My Camino"; but should that not also include discouraging negative behaviors which Obliviots impose on others?

Thankfully, most here on this forum counsel novice pilgrims on those types of behaviors to avoid when in a group setting. But there are still those voices which will tell the pilgrim, who is frustrated by Obliviot behavior, to just suck it up because that annoyance is your problem. And to a certain extent I agree, in that how we handle that annoyance is the individual's issue.

So, thankfully, much of the Obliviot problem is not going to be consistent; but it must be <sigh> expected. To avoid this, there are other choices for accommodations to provide needed respite. Yes, that makes the Camino budget more expensive; and it does nothing to discourage Obliviot behaviors from expanding with the passing years. It seems that, like bedbugs, Obliviots are simply part of the Camino picture.

Does Permethrin work to ward off Obliviots?

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I find it useless and frustrating to worry about the actions of others.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I've only experienced rude, loud people coming in late at the curfew a few times on three Caminos, and it was mostly the vino tinto talking.
Lights in the morning were usually turned on at 6am, but most early risers did whisper and tried to be quiet. If I wasn't ready to get up, my ear plugs kept most of the noise out anyway and I just tucked my head under my sleeping bag and fell back asleep.

I do have a question though....Often when I would reach the albergue in mid afternoon, there would be one or two people napping. Am I supposed to whisper in conversation to my companions and tiptoe around in order to not disturb them? I'm couteous, but I personally don't think we should have to accomodate the afternoon nappers when we arrive tired ourselves, unloading our packs, getting our shower gear together, etc.
Is my attitude inconsiderate? Maybe I'm opening a pandora's box by asking this question.

 

[Anamiri]

I tend to think of Alburgue life as having the qualities of summer camp, without a counselor to keep some semblance of order. Without a resident monitor to enforce things like noise limitations and lights out curfews, one is at the mercy of Obliviots. Sometimes the Obliviots are few and far between, at other times you feel like you are between a gaggle of Obliviots. Sometimes peer pressure from the group keeps the Obliviots at bay, at other times it seems the peer group is content to let the Obliviots bay.

It seems that any discussions wishing or hoping for even minimum standards of behavior and expectations, draws criticisms by those who include any such discussion as imposing on the vaporously undefined notion of "My Camino". To be sure, there is a definite and positive rationale for respecting the concept of "My Camino"; but should that not also include discouraging negative behaviors which Obliviots impose on others?

Thankfully, most here on this forum counsel novice pilgrims on those types of behaviors to avoid when in a group setting. But there are still those voices which will tell the pilgrim, who is frustrated by Obliviot behavior, to just suck it up because that annoyance is your problem. And to a certain extent I agree, in that how we handle that annoyance is the individual's issue.

So, thankfully, much of the Obliviot problem is not going to be consistent; but it must be <sigh> expected. To avoid this, there are other choices for accommodations to provide needed respite. Yes, that makes the Camino budget more expensive; and it does nothing to discourage Obliviot behaviors from expanding with the passing years. It seems that, like bedbugs, Obliviots are simply part of the Camino picture.

Does Permethrin work to ward off Obliviots?

Love that term. Obliviots!

 

[AZgirl]

In the albergue I run in my dreams, among other impractical things I always thought it would be great to have several rooms divided by times people planned to awake to get going.

 

[Albertagirl]

I have two suggestions for the unfortunate pilgrim who has to put up with behaviour which makes living in albergues extremely uncomfortable for him or her. The first is that I set rules for my own behaviour which consider the needs of others and that they may be on a schedule which is not identical to my own. If I see anyone in bed, presumably trying to sleep, I consider that they may be exhausted or ill and try to be as quiet as I can in the dormitory. In the morning, I decide what I think would be a considerate time to get up and am as quiet as I possibly can and don't turn lights on, so others can sleep. I chose 6:30 am for my fall caminos and stayed in bed until then if everyone else was still in bed. At 6:30, I crept out of bed and tried to be as quiet as I could as I prepared to leave. Dawn is late in October/November, so many times the dormitory was still silent when I left. I lost some gear trying to sneak out one morning, but a day or two later a pilgrim who was finishing her camino gave me some of hers that she no longer needed, so I did not have to look for a shop or do without for too long.
The second thing is to care for oneself as best is possible. When I go to bed in an albergue dorm, I put on my eye mask and put in my ear plugs, and hope to be able to sleep. I try not to think about anyone else's bahaviour, as that would just be too frustrating. As I walk long days, for me, I am generally tired enough to get adequate sleep. But the occasional private room is also an option if I get short of sleep and cranky. So I try to follow the golden rule: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," but without expecting others to do so or to necessarily want just what I do. These two practices work for me.

 

[JulieandPeter]

Of course you are absolutely right that we should all be more considerate of each other! I find this journal entry in Brierley's guide to be helpful when I'm finding myself annoyed by others' behavior. I'm genuinely happy you vented on this forum today because I needed this reminder (especially today) not to let my peace be dependent on someone else's noise. It's hard to do! Buen Camino.
Buen Camino!

 

[RJM]

I've only experienced rude, loud people coming in late at the curfew a few times on three Caminos, and it was mostly the vino tinto talking.
Lights in the morning were usually turned on at 6am, but most early risers did whisper and tried to be quiet. If I wasn't ready to get up, my ear plugs kept most of the noise out anyway and I just tucked my head under my sleeping bag and fell back asleep.

I do have a question though....Often when I would reach the albergue in mid afternoon, there would be one or two people napping. Am I supposed to whisper in conversation to my companions and tiptoe around in order to not disturb them? I'm couteous, but I personally don't think we should have to accomodate the afternoon nappers when we arrive tired ourselves, unloading our packs, getting our shower gear together, etc.
Is my attitude inconsiderate? Maybe I'm opening a pandora's box by asking this question.

I am quite often one of those mid afternoon nappers, but I do it not expecting everyone else to adjust their behavior around me. Besides, when I'm tired it pretty much takes a small explosion to wake me up. I always seemed to get a decent siesta in even in the busiest of albergues.

 

[William Garza]

I find it useless and frustrating to worry about the actions of others.

Falcon
I am slowly-painfully schooling myself on this. A lifetime of service to others and finally getting to this point.
Also..at my age..I'm simply not going to worry about other people's bad behavior..if they don't know by now? They never will.

 

[LesR]

Hi everyone,

I am not intending to rage or start arguments, but I am posting this so people can be aware.

It may be hard to share a space such as an albergue with other people. Where do we cross the line between what we want to do and other's personal space? As delicate as this can be, I believe that normal education and common sense are key. So, posing the scenario of several, and I mean several, people already fast asleep in a room, would it be ok for most of you fellow pilgrims, just to enter said room blasting, talking really loud, turning on the lights ans basically waking up everyone? Would it be ok if I wake up like at 5am and do the same, just turn on the lights and wake everybody up?

We are in the camino as we are in life is, for me, one of the most real sayings about the camino. I guess that if you are rude, selfish and not aware of your surroundings, this is the kind of situation that you will create. People will sing together, dinner together and share this life time experience. But I guess that at the end of the day, if you don't care about others, this is what you are gonna do.

I am just appealing to some common sense to be used. Some good manners would be appreciated. People have all afternoon to prepare their rucksacks and put things they need aside. This is also why flashlights were created. But no. Just turning the volume up and wake up everyone for no reason whatsoever. Excuse if I sound angry, but I am. Just so rude.

I liked the approach in the Roncesvalles albergue - lights are managed centrally - turned off at 10 pm and on again 6 am next morning.

But there is simply no excuse for the behaviors described by the OP.

My saving grace was a lesson I learned - tomorrow is a brand new day, and whatever irks me now will not be there tomorrow....

 

[JillGat]

Though I often post thoughtful, "live and let live" messages here or say things like Falcon said, "I find it useless and frustrating to worry about the actions of others." I wish that were true for me! But ACTUALLY in real life, I often allow myself to get incredibly annoyed, indignant and judgmental about the actions of others. I do start every day on the camino fresh, but then the next day some group of asses will inevitably take up the whole laundry line with their towels splayed out horizontally so nobody else can use the line. They will whisper loudly (which for some reason drives me even much crazier than when people talk out loud). They will stink up the dorm with strong-smelling foot ointments. Etc. The only thing that relieves the tension for me is my sense of humor. It's the only thing I seem to have control over (*most* of the time); the choice between being angry or laughing.

In one albergue, I was happy to be put in a room with only three beds. And only one of the other beds was occupied! But it was occupied by a woman who talked to herself while unpacking little plastic bags from her pack, sorting out all kinds of little things on her bed, repacking them and then repeating this again and again. I tried to get a good look at what she was doing and how she was sorting her little gadgets, because I was writing it all up in my journal. I almost couldn't wait to meet up with somebody I knew the next evening so I could tell this story. And, amazingly enough, the friend I ran into the next day HAD SPENT A NIGHT NEXT TO THIS SAME PERSON IN AN ALBERGUE A COUPLE OF NIGHTS BEFORE. We laughed so hard.

I know this doesn't sound kind, but it works for me.

 

[trecile]

My saving grace was a lesson I learned - tomorrow is a brand new day, and whatever irks me now will not be there tomorrow....

I think that's one of the things that I love the most about the Camino - every day brings brand new possibilities!

I think that the best way to deal with people that annoy you is to try to put some distance between you, so that you never end up in the same albergue again! Either walk farther ahead, or let them get ahead of you.

 

[William Garza]

Those who are traveled are the quiet ones..ones with nothing to prove,plenty to say to the other travel worn and weary

Some
Are born pilgrims..some become pilgrims..some are passing..by the way
At the end of that 1st journey you may begin to understand that siren and why it's such an alluring sound
Or not.

Its all part of wearing out and wearing thin the patina of the facade..
The what we think it should be
And what "it"is.

And all a person can do is let time wash it away
Spread your arms and dive in
Its a cleansing immersion...

Let it all go in the wash.

People will be...

You will become
The inner-sinner will rage
The outer saint will cage
And in between?
You.

Its only a little while before your away from the thorns at your side
Annoying people are transients in your flow
Eddys in your stream

Become that stream
Flow
Rather than back up
Go around..over,under and through all things in your way to the ocean

Less is most on the road
The less you carry
The lighter the load..do you see?

 

[Bornean]

Though I often post thoughtful, "live and let live" messages here or say things like Falcon said, "I find it useless and frustrating to worry about the actions of others." I wish that were true for me! But ACTUALLY in real life, I often allow myself to get incredibly annoyed, indignant and judgmental about the actions of others. I do start every day on the camino fresh, but then the next day some group of asses will inevitably take up the whole laundry line with their towels splayed out horizontally so nobody else can use the line. They will whisper loudly (which for some reason drives me even much crazier than when people talk out loud). They will stink up the dorm with strong-smelling foot ointments. Etc. The only thing that relieves the tension for me is my sense of humor. It's the only thing I seem to have control over (*most* of the time); the choice between being angry or laughing.

In one albergue, I was happy to be put in a room with only three beds. And only one of the other beds was occupied! But it was occupied by a woman who talked to herself while unpacking little plastic bags from her pack, sorting out all kinds of little things on her bed, repacking them and then repeating this again and again. I tried to get a good look at what she was doing and how she was sorting her little gadgets, because I was writing it all up in my journal. I almost couldn't wait to meet up with somebody I knew the next evening so I could tell this story. And, amazingly enough, the friend I ran into the next day HAD SPENT A NIGHT NEXT TO THIS SAME PERSON IN AN ALBERGUE A COUPLE OF NIGHTS BEFORE. We laughed so hard.

I know this doesn't sound kind, but it works for me.

I see you met my mum

But I relate to this. It's the age-old battle between reacting to something and trying to manage that reaction by choosing how to respond. Sometimes we're better at it than at other times.

And I so relate to that almost desperate need to find another person to laugh with about something specific. My reaction to that was: YES!! My chosen response is to laugh because that is a funny story, and I'm still laughing.

 

[Colette Z]

I can relate. After 15 days on El Norte walking alone and only meeting the same 2-3 other pilgrims on ocasión at Albergues, a pilgrim party pack arrived in Luarca at 7pm and took over the entire quiet albergue, drank until late, dancing around in their underwear males and females, spread their equipment all over the floor (making getting to the toilet at night a hazard).....in short I mentioned to one nice Spanish girl who was tagging along with these others the next morning at 6am (a German lady and I were desperate to escape these kids) that after so long on a basically empty Camino, their arrival and loud fun making was a bit of a shock. She obviously communicated it to them which resulted in them whistling and jeering at me whenever our paths crossed or they would pass me on the path and totally ignore me. I was nice when I talked to the Spanish girl and she’s was embarrassed. I let them run ahead and learned that they gained a bad reputation at the private and municipal albergues where they stayed. I remained tolerant, accepted that they were young and perhaps on an adventure, not a pilgrimage and prayed for them.

 

[Irish Bernie]

We met a guy and his wife in their mid-late 60's; they would normally have been quite pleasant I think.
However he bought shoes that were too small, decided to walk barefoot, but that made him slower, so he started early. I mean early like 3-4am. He had other shoes with him (but was saving them? for what?)
In the comedy of errors that this was, he was also quite deaf.
So in the very early hours, he would wake, rustle, talk to his wife (very loudly because he was deaf), she would shhh him (loudly so he could hear). It would take them ages to get ready.
I think her shhhing was worse than his talking.
In no time the entire room would be awake, just waiting for them to leave.
They never turned the light on, one blessing.
We decided to walk a longer day, and ditch them, so I think did half the room. We never saw them again.

Sorry but that scenario would have had me in stitches laughing.

 

[ophelia]

Hi everyone,

Thank you all for your insight and opinions. Usually I do not get this upset with these attitudes and to be frank with you all, my previous albergue experience during my first camino was really not like this at all, and maybe that is what shocked me so much yesterday. I know that there are other lodging options, but they truly are out of my reach financially speaking.

Yesterday it was some minutes to curfew when it happened, it was not in the afternoon or dinner time. Maybe I was more frustated because I was really tired and was sleeping sweetily and deeply, but I am a very early riser and I do everything within my best skills to avoid making any kind of noise so I won't disturb anyone, as I know most pilgrims will sleep a bit more. I kind of exepected a similar attitude at night, but I guess it is better to not have expectations.

Once again, thanks everyone!

 

[RJM]

I do have a question though....Often when I would reach the albergue in mid afternoon, there would be one or two people napping. Am I supposed to whisper in conversation to my companions and tiptoe around in order to not disturb them? I'm couteous, but I personally don't think we should have to accomodate the afternoon nappers when we arrive tired ourselves, unloading our packs, getting our shower gear together, etc.
Is my attitude inconsiderate? Maybe I'm opening a pandora's box by asking this question.

Okay, your question got me thinking about past Caminos and that particular subject and one humourous experience I had regarding it.
It was on the Frances several years ago, on the meseta section. Not that many pilgrims on the Camino that week so albergue beds were plentiful. I got to one albergue a wee bit early and was the first to check in, showered, washed laundry and lied down on a top bunk and was the only one in that room which had a dozen or so other bunks. While lying there half awake and half asleep, an older Spanish couple I had seen already on the Camino a couple of times arrived and came into the sleeping quarters. They were in their seventies I would guess, fit and both small. The man and woman being about the same size. They were cute. The woman spoke Spanish non-stop while they were getting sorted out in the sleeping quarters, and she was whispering I suppose, but the attempt at whispering made it a shriller, actually louder voice than had she not tried to whisper at all. When I say she spoke non-stop, I mean non-stop and fast and I wondered how she got any breaths into her lungs. The man didn't say a single word and just meekly followed her around in a sort of "yes dear" fashion. He may have been a captain of industry or something similar at one time in his life, but it was obvious who wore the hiking shoes (or pants?) on the Camino. Anyway, after about twenty minutes or so of their shuffling and putting about, her shrill whisper non-stop, I finally muttered to myself, I guess louder than I expected and in English something along the lines of "my God lady, do you ever shuttup?". Well, they certainly heard and understood that as her talking instantly ceased and there was silence in the room, and I peeked over in their direction and they were both just standing there staring at me, ha ha. I saw them a couple more times whilst walking and they would just go past me, not even looking my way and without a single "buen Camino" uttered to me.

 

[RJM]

spread their equipment all over the floor (making getting to the toilet at night a hazard) .

I have seen pilgrims do that a few times in albergues and often wonder why? Their equipment will be literally strewn about the floor in the space between the bunks where others walk. It really is rude, and I suppose impractical as you could lose or damage something that got kicked out of the way or stepped on by another pilgrim trying to negotiate through it.
Any forum members ever do that (strewn it about) with their equipment and why?

 

[trecile]

I have seen pilgrims do that a few times in albergues and often wonder why? Their equipment will be literally strewn about the floor in the space between the bunks where others walk. It really is rude, and I suppose impractical as you could lose or damage something that got kicked out of the way or stepped on by another pilgrim trying to negotiate through it.
Any forum members ever do that (strewn it about) with their equipment and why?

I can't tell you how many people put their pack right at the bottom of the ladder to my upper bunk...

 

[naplesdon]

You may encounter one bad night or one bad morning once in awhile if you stay exclusively at public albergue. Some people just don’t get it. Late night problems seem to be more prevalent on weekends when groups of locals are doing weekend Camino walks. The morning stuff is confounding because I will never understand why anyone would want to walk out into the dark knowing they may not find their first cup of coffee for three hours. Yikes, pox on them. Stay in the smaller places.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I have seen pilgrims do that a few times in albergues and often wonder why? Their equipment will be literally strewn about the floor in the space between the bunks where others walk. It really is rude, and I suppose impractical as you could lose or damage something that got kicked out of the way or stepped on by another pilgrim trying to negotiate through it.
Any forum members ever do that (strewn it about) with their equipment and why?

No, I've never done this either, but I could have written your post verbatim, for all the same reasons. It's as if they don't respect their own gear and it usually seems to be the younger crowd doing this...I guess when mama and papa paid for it, the "kids" just don't care enough. Lol.

 

[MikeyC]

I tend to think of Alburgue life as having the qualities of summer camp, without a counselor to keep some semblance of order. Without a resident monitor to enforce things like noise limitations and lights out curfews, one is at the mercy of Obliviots. Sometimes the Obliviots are few and far between, at other times you feel like you are between a gaggle of Obliviots. Sometimes peer pressure from the group keeps the Obliviots at bay, at other times it seems the peer group is content to let the Obliviots bay.

It seems that any discussions wishing or hoping for even minimum standards of behavior and expectations, draws criticisms by those who include any such discussion as imposing on the vaporously undefined notion of "My Camino". To be sure, there is a definite and positive rationale for respecting the concept of "My Camino"; but should that not also include discouraging negative behaviors which Obliviots impose on others?

Thankfully, most here on this forum counsel novice pilgrims on those types of behaviors to avoid when in a group setting. But there are still those voices which will tell the pilgrim, who is frustrated by Obliviot behavior, to just suck it up because that annoyance is your problem. And to a certain extent I agree, in that how we handle that annoyance is the individual's issue.

So, thankfully, much of the Obliviot problem is not going to be consistent; but it must be <sigh> expected. To avoid this, there are other choices for accommodations to provide needed respite. Yes, that makes the Camino budget more expensive; and it does nothing to discourage Obliviot behaviors from expanding with the passing years. It seems that, like bedbugs, Obliviots are simply part of the Camino picture.

Does Permethrin work to ward off Obliviots?

"Obliviot" - sounds like a spell from Harry Potter. If only I could find my magic wand then a quick "Anapneo" would stop snoring, we would "apparate" the last 10kms into Burgos, "silencio" would deal with the noisy crowd and "impervio" is the Rowling equivalent of Goretex.
Now where did I leave that wand?

 

[Nurah]

Hi everyone,

I am not intending to rage or start arguments, but I am posting this so people can be aware.

It may be hard to share a space such as an albergue with other people. Where do we cross the line between what we want to do and other's personal space? As delicate as this can be, I believe that normal education and common sense are key. So, posing the scenario of several, and I mean several, people already fast asleep in a room, would it be ok for most of you fellow pilgrims, just to enter said room blasting, talking really loud, turning on the lights ans basically waking up everyone? Would it be ok if I wake up like at 5am and do the same, just turn on the lights and wake everybody up?

We are in the camino as we are in life is, for me, one of the most real sayings about the camino. I guess that if you are rude, selfish and not aware of your surroundings, this is the kind of situation that you will create. People will sing together, dinner together and share this life time experience. But I guess that at the end of the day, if you don't care about others, this is what you are gonna do.

I am just appealing to some common sense to be used. Some good manners would be appreciated. People have all afternoon to prepare their rucksacks and put things they need aside. This is also why flashlights were created. But no. Just turning the volume up and wake up everyone for no reason whatsoever. Excuse if I sound angry, but I am. Just so rude.

I have been in hostels with people who seemed to have no sense of "hostel etiquette" and very kindly try to teach them some. For example, "Typically in hostels, people leaving in the very early morning hours pack up before going to bed." Or, "Typically in hostels, quiet hours are from _ to _." This could be their first experience in communal living, so I think it can be helpful to make them more conscious.

 

[trecile]

I have been in hostels with people who seemed to have no sense of "hostel etiquette" and very kindly try to teach them some. For example, "Typically in hostels, people leaving in the very early morning hours pack up before going to bed." Or, "Typically in hostels, quiet hours are from _ to _." This could be their first experience in communal living, so I think it can be helpful to make them more conscious.

Or "usually in hostels people don't use loud audible alarms".

 

[Bob from L.A. !]

We met a guy and his wife in their mid-late 60's; they would normally have been quite pleasant I think.
However he bought shoes that were too small, decided to walk barefoot, but that made him slower, so he started early. I mean early like 3-4am. He had other shoes with him (but was saving them? for what?)
In the comedy of errors that this was, he was also quite deaf.
So in the very early hours, he would wake, rustle, talk to his wife (very loudly because he was deaf), she would shhh him (loudly so he could hear). It would take them ages to get ready.
I think her shhhing was worse than his talking.
In no time the entire room would be awake, just waiting for them to leave.
They never turned the light on, one blessing.
We decided to walk a longer day, and ditch them, so I think did half the room. We never saw them again.

...Sounds like something out of a Lucille Ball episode...

 

[Anamiri]

...Sounds like something out of a Lucille Ball episode...

It makes for a good story afterward, but two nights in a row of those two, and I was seriously sleep deprived. When I saw them arrive late in the afternoon, I groaned inwardly - we already experienced their antics the night before.. Most of the inhabitants of the dormitory rolled their eyes. If they had arrived earlier I think people would have moved on.
I always wanted to know what he was saving his other shoes for? the ones that fitted.
Surely of all the occasions in our lives, a Camino deserves the good shoes...

We have a good laugh about it now.

 

[JillGat]

I think that's one of the things that I love the most about the Camino - every day brings brand new possibilities!

I think that the best way to deal with people that annoy you is to try to put some distance between you, so that you never end up in the same albergue again! Either walk farther ahead, or let them get ahead of you.

Maybe this is what's addictive about the Camino. You can't do this in your regular life.

 

[Rossco]

Hi everyone,

I am not intending to rage or start arguments, but I am posting this so people can be aware.

It may be hard to share a space such as an albergue with other people. Where do we cross the line between what we want to do and other's personal space? As delicate as this can be, I believe that normal education and common sense are key. So, posing the scenario of several, and I mean several, people already fast asleep in a room, would it be ok for most of you fellow pilgrims, just to enter said room blasting, talking really loud, turning on the lights ans basically waking up everyone? Would it be ok if I wake up like at 5am and do the same, just turn on the lights and wake everybody up?

We are in the camino as we are in life is, for me, one of the most real sayings about the camino. I guess that if you are rude, selfish and not aware of your surroundings, this is the kind of situation that you will create. People will sing together, dinner together and share this life time experience. But I guess that at the end of the day, if you don't care about others, this is what you are gonna do.

I am just appealing to some common sense to be used. Some good manners would be appreciated. People have all afternoon to prepare their rucksacks and put things they need aside. This is also why flashlights were created. But no. Just turning the volume up and wake up everyone for no reason whatsoever. Excuse if I sound angry, but I am. Just so rude.

I agree with you. I went through the same experience last year when I walked the Camino Portuguese. It was enjoyable from Lisbon, but from Porto onwards it was a completely different experience. I couldn’t wait to finish.

 

[LesR]

I agree with you. I went through the same experience last year when I walked the Camino Portuguese. It was enjoyable from Lisbon, but from Porto onwards it was a completely different experience. I couldn’t wait to finish

Similar leaving Sarria Oct 2017 - lots of newbies around me and feeling quie claustrophobic... School groups, and buses of old folks who would walk for a while and be picked up again at the next cafe/bar. Yes, everyone is entitled to walk their camino - I just wasn't used to the numbers of fellow walkers...

But the crowd petered out inside 12 hours and life was good again

 

[John H.]

As pathetic as I may sound, your post (and noise challenge) makes me miss the Camino (the good and the bad). Just think how nice a good night sleep will feel at a different Alburgue.

 

[Patrice Reed]

I didn't care for the communally bedrooms on the Camino so I stayed in private rooms or hotels along the way. Even the private rooms were incredibly cheap compared to even cheap motels in the USA - so it was an easy decision for me.

 

[madlen]

Hi everyone,

I am not intending to rage or start arguments, but I am posting this so people can be aware.

It may be hard to share a space such as an albergue with other people. Where do we cross the line between what we want to do and other's personal space? As delicate as this can be, I believe that normal education and common sense are key. So, posing the scenario of several, and I mean several, people already fast asleep in a room, would it be ok for most of you fellow pilgrims, just to enter said room blasting, talking really loud, turning on the lights ans basically waking up everyone? Would it be ok if I wake up like at 5am and do the same, just turn on the lights and wake everybody up?

We are in the camino as we are in life is, for me, one of the most real sayings about the camino. I guess that if you are rude, selfish and not aware of your surroundings, this is the kind of situation that you will create. People will sing together, dinner together and share this life time experience. But I guess that at the end of the day, if you don't care about others, this is what you are gonna do.

I am just appealing to some common sense to be used. Some good manners would be appreciated. People have all afternoon to prepare their rucksacks and put things they need aside. This is also why flashlights were created. But no. Just turning the volume up and wake up everyone for no reason whatsoever. Excuse if I sound angry, but I am. Just so rude.

I totally agree. Especially in the Albergue in Marinhas. We like to go to bed early as we’re pretty exhausted every day. It was shocking the lack of respect from other walkers. I wouldn’t call them pilgrims as real pilgrims would not behave like this. I think the protocol should be, arrive, find your bed, prepare your bed then go out. Don’t come in at 9/10pm and start making your bed. If you want to have a conversation outside the room,speak quietly not shout at each other. And if you see people sleeping when entering the room, try your best to close the door quietly instead of throwing it shut. I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade, and I’m perfectly fine with groups having a good time, but please be aware that there are other people than you. It’s shameful and I’m embarrassed for those people. They seem to miss the whole point of a pilgrimage. Rant over.

 

[Lulumom]

I’ve been on both sides of this (annoyed by people who seemed inconsiderate to me at the time and also in the position of unintentionally annoying others). If you’re going to sleep in albergues you can’t expect things to be ideal for you and you also need excellent earplugs and eyeshades. I have both and literally slept through someone coming at 10:30 and breaking - yes, breaking - the bunk bed next to me.

 

[Anniesantiago]

I totally agree. Especially in the Albergue in Marinhas. We like to go to bed early as we’re pretty exhausted every day. It was shocking the lack of respect from other walkers. I wouldn’t call them pilgrims as real pilgrims would not behave like this. I think the protocol should be, arrive, find your bed, prepare your bed then go out. Don’t come in at 9/10pm and start making your bed. If you want to have a conversation outside the room,speak quietly not shout at each other. And if you see people sleeping when entering the room, try your best to close the door quietly instead of throwing it shut. I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade, and I’m perfectly fine with groups having a good time, but please be aware that there are other people than you. It’s shameful and I’m embarrassed for those people. They seem to miss the whole point of a pilgrimage. Rant over.

The thing is, you're in SPAIN and in SPAIN, their 10 pm is like OUR 7 pm.
Even the children are out in the streets playing at 10 pm.
Earplugs or private lodging or walking in the off season are the only answers I can think of.
No expectations.

 

[madlen]

Maybe this is what's addictive about the Camino. You can't do this in your regular life.

The thing is, you're in SPAIN and in SPAIN, their 10 pm is like OUR 7 pm.
Even the children are out in the streets playing at 10 pm.
Earplugs or private lodging or walking in the off season are the only answers I can think of.
No expectations.

so you saying people shouldn’t be respectful towards others? Isn’t that missing the whole point of the camino? No one is saying anything about local children etc. And, not that it matters, but we’re in Portugal. And here, so far, there has not been any noise from the locals. Only other people in the albergue. I think what we are saying is, that there is a lack of respect from fellow travellers which is totally unessary.

 

[Steven B]

Is it not also inconsiderate of those 1 or 2 who go to bed at 7-7.30pm turn all the lights out and expect everyone else staying in the room to fumble around in the dark when returning from dinner before 8pm. Often there is a posted 'lights out' time. Then that that should be the expected lights out time. Others may need to use eye covers and ear plugs if retiring very early or getting up late. My 2c worth.

 

[Anniesantiago]

so you saying people shouldn’t be respectful towards others? Isn’t that missing the whole point of the camino? No one is saying anything about local children etc. And, not that it matters, but we’re in Portugal. And here, so far, there has not been any noise from the locals. Only other people in the albergue. I think what we are saying is, that there is a lack of respect from fellow travellers which is totally unessary.

Portugal is even worse. (I'm Portuguese!)
When we visit there, people in cars come honking to pick us up for dinner at 11 pm!

I'm not saying people should not be respectful.
I'm saying you cannot control other people's behavior. The only person you can change is YOU and your response.

Noise is a part of Camino life in albergues.
Which is why I book private rooms these days.

And frankly, there IS no one point of the Camino.
People walk for many different reasons.

 

[Anniesantiago]

so you saying people shouldn’t be respectful towards others? Isn’t that missing the whole point of the camino?

Rebekkah said it best...

Collecting sellos, pondering payment, wondering over the worthiness of the person asking for support, measuring your church offering according to the building's degree of decoration... it is all a very transactional approach to the pilgrimage. I give you this, I get that. I shop for months in advance, ask everyone which is the Best albergue, route, shoes, socks, prayers, airline, and guidebook. and if my expectations are not met, I complain on the Forum.

Beyond all this noise and preoccupation about Getting and Spending is the truly amazing truth about the Camino, maybe the thing that makes it so special. The Camino trail itself may have become a grab-that-cash theme park in places, but the pilgrim economy, practiced by the pilgrim community, is not based on transactions. It runs on Grace.
Something for nothing. Beauty, kindness, acceptance, brotherhood, in exchange for... just showing up, just walking. Just being what you are is enough. Just a place out of the rain, a bocadillo, a glass of tinto is enough. Yes, you are expected to pay your way. And you have so many opportunities to help others make their way, too -- and you find your heart is open, and your wallet is, too, and you can afford it just fine.
If you don't get a great bunk in the recommended albergue, your heart does not break.
If you have to walk another couple of km., you survive. Someone gives you his lower bunk, or lends you a sleeping mat, or tells you where there's a nice haystack. You give your last Compeed to the boy with shredded toes, and you don't fret about having enough for yourself. You walk freely. Free. It's grace. You find it on the Camino.
And when you get home, you realize it's there, too. It always has been. Even after your credential with all the fancy stamps is lost in a drawer, you still can give and receive without judging or fearing the other, because you are free. You've met grace, and she lives in you now.

 

[Dannyhiker]

In an American hostel, quiet hours are posted very clearly. Usually, they're 10pm to 7 am. Before 10pm, you can move around and talk normally.
Maybe you can ask when you come in when quiet hours are.

 

[Jaime Trevino Elizondo]

Hi everyone,

I am not intending to rage or start arguments, but I am posting this so people can be aware.

It may be hard to share a space such as an albergue with other people. Where do we cross the line between what we want to do and other's personal space? As delicate as this can be, I believe that normal education and common sense are key. So, posing the scenario of several, and I mean several, people already fast asleep in a room, would it be ok for most of you fellow pilgrims, just to enter said room blasting, talking really loud, turning on the lights ans basically waking up everyone? Would it be ok if I wake up like at 5am and do the same, just turn on the lights and wake everybody up?

We are in the camino as we are in life is, for me, one of the most real sayings about the camino. I guess that if you are rude, selfish and not aware of your surroundings, this is the kind of situation that you will create. People will sing together, dinner together and share this life time experience. But I guess that at the end of the day, if you don't care about others, this is what you are gonna do.

I am just appealing to some common sense to be used. Some good manners would be appreciated. People have all afternoon to prepare their rucksacks and put things they need aside. This is also why flashlights were created. But no. Just turning the volume up and wake up everyone for no reason whatsoever. Excuse if I sound angry, but I am. Just so rude.

I kno lots of people are so rude and they lack so much etiquette.

 

[Starseeker54]

ah bless having read all the posts has made me chuckle.we need a thread to educate people about pilgrim behaviour,whether you class yourself as a pilgrim or not.
i have walked several different camino"s and it is usually the first night that is the worst.
when arriving at your chosen albergue,firstly sort out your bed.then sort out what you will be wearing the rest of the day and tomorrow .shower and do any washing that needs to be done.sort any medical problems,ie blisters,sore spots ect out.relax and unwind.
in the evening have your next day clothes ready and when you get into bed,make sure that the next day clothes are the only things out.
wake up at your chosen time and if need be use your head torch on its single setting,so as not to imitate a lighthouse.
if possible take your clothes/kit outside into another room and get dressed.leave the albergue quietly.
i have found most people settle into albergue routine very quickly,if not a quiet word to help them i have found to be very welcome.
you will always find that people have their own views and it seems to me that a healthy dose of common sense and an even bigger dollop of humour is essential.
if you find a really annoying group,try to avoid the first albergue you come too that evening and go for the next of my favourite is to walk to the furthest one on the edge of town.most people aim for the first one or one near a bar.
i sleep like the proverbial log and have slept through a minor earthquake whilst in a nunnery,whilst everyone else dashed outside.
we all learn things about ourselves and others on the camino,let us keep positive and thankful.

 

[madlen]

Is it not also inconsiderate of those 1 or 2 who go to bed at 7-7.30pm turn all the lights out and expect everyone else staying in the room to fumble around in the dark when returning from dinner before 8pm. Often there is a posted 'lights out' time. Then that that should be the expected lights out time. Others may need to use eye covers and ear plugs if retiring very early or getting up late. My 2c worth.

I believe you’re missing the point here. I can only speak from my experience in the last 4 days here in Portugal. And no one turned any lights off at 7/7.30pm as there would be no point as it is still light outside. There have been no school children playing outside. In fact, there have been no children whatsoever. Or many adults for that matter. We’re walking the coastal route so I can only speak of that. So I’m wondering if you are saying it is inconsiderate of me to be tired at what you might consider an early hour? I’m very happy for anyone who can afford a private room. Thus far they’ve been around €40 a night. I’m pleased for anyone who can afford that. Unfortunately I can’t. I think the point here is that yes, I’m sleeping in an albergue and might pay as little as €5. So I’m not coming in with much expectations. All I’m saying is that itd be nice if people would be a bit more considered. I know i would be if I’d come into a room and find you asleep. But that’s just me.

 

[madlen]

ah bless having read all the posts has made me chuckle.we need a thread to educate people about pilgrim behaviour,whether you class yourself as a pilgrim or not.
i have walked several different camino"s and it is usually the first night that is the worst.
when arriving at your chosen albergue,firstly sort out your bed.then sort out what you will be wearing the rest of the day and tomorrow .shower and do any washing that needs to be done.sort any medical problems,ie blisters,sore spots ect out.relax and unwind.
in the evening have your next day clothes ready and when you get into bed,make sure that the next day clothes are the only things out.
wake up at your chosen time and if need be use your head torch on its single setting,so as not to imitate a lighthouse.
if possible take your clothes/kit outside into another room and get dressed.leave the albergue quietly.
i have found most people settle into albergue routine very quickly,if not a quiet word to help them i have found to be very welcome.
you will always find that people have their own views and it seems to me that a healthy dose of common sense and an even bigger dollop of humour is essential.
if you find a really annoying group,try to avoid the first albergue you come too that evening and go for the next of my favourite is to walk to the furthest one on the edge of town.most people aim for the first one or one near a bar.
i sleep like the proverbial log and have slept through a minor earthquake whilst in a nunnery,whilst everyone else dashed outside.
we all learn things about ourselves and others on the camino,let us keep positive and thankful.

Amen. Exactly the point I tried to bring across! Well said!

 

[Waka]

Rebekkah said it best...

Collecting sellos, pondering payment, wondering over the worthiness of the person asking for support, measuring your church offering according to the building's degree of decoration... it is all a very transactional approach to the pilgrimage. I give you this, I get that. I shop for months in advance, ask everyone which is the Best albergue, route, shoes, socks, prayers, airline, and guidebook. and if my expectations are not met, I complain on the Forum.

Beyond all this noise and preoccupation about Getting and Spending is the truly amazing truth about the Camino, maybe the thing that makes it so special. The Camino trail itself may have become a grab-that-cash theme park in places, but the pilgrim economy, practiced by the pilgrim community, is not based on transactions. It runs on Grace.
Something for nothing. Beauty, kindness, acceptance, brotherhood, in exchange for... just showing up, just walking. Just being what you are is enough. Just a place out of the rain, a bocadillo, a glass of tinto is enough. Yes, you are expected to pay your way. And you have so many opportunities to help others make their way, too -- and you find your heart is open, and your wallet is, too, and you can afford it just fine.
If you don't get a great bunk in the recommended albergue, your heart does not break.
If you have to walk another couple of km., you survive. Someone gives you his lower bunk, or lends you a sleeping mat, or tells you where there's a nice haystack. You give your last Compeed to the boy with shredded toes, and you don't fret about having enough for yourself. You walk freely. Free. It's grace. You find it on the Camino.
And when you get home, you realize it's there, too. It always has been. Even after your credential with all the fancy stamps is lost in a drawer, you still can give and receive without judging or fearing the other, because you are free. You've met grace, and she lives in you now.

So very well put, thank you.

 

[trecile]

Many people train by walking and carrying their packs, but I think that maybe some sleep training may be in order.
First, buy a wobbly bunk bed and the most uncomfortable mattress that you can find. If it's winter make sure to leave a window open in your room. If it's summer close all the windows - and no cheating by turning on the air conditioning. Leave the door to your room open and set up a light on a timer in the hall to go off at random times to simulate pilgrims getting up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom. You are going to need a lot of lights and timers for this training.
Set a couple of alarms to go off at least an hour before you want to get up. Make a recording of people rustling plastic bags and whispering loudly, and set that to play two hours before sunrise. Perhaps hire someone to come in and shine a flashlight at you at 4am. Set your overhead light to turn on no later than 5:30. And don't forget to play a recording of people snoring and rolling over in squeaky beds on a continuous loop. Sleep under these conditions for a month. Now you are ready for the Camino!
I'm thinking that if you have an Alexa device you can program a pretty good albergue simulator.

 

[arch]

Hi everyone,

I am not intending to rage or start arguments, but I am posting this so people can be aware.

It may be hard to share a space such as an albergue with other people. Where do we cross the line between what we want to do and other's personal space? As delicate as this can be, I believe that normal education and common sense are key. So, posing the scenario of several, and I mean several, people already fast asleep in a room, would it be ok for most of you fellow pilgrims, just to enter said room blasting, talking really loud, turning on the lights ans basically waking up everyone? Would it be ok if I wake up like at 5am and do the same, just turn on the lights and wake everybody up?

We are in the camino as we are in life is, for me, one of the most real sayings about the camino. I guess that if you are rude, selfish and not aware of your surroundings, this is the kind of situation that you will create. People will sing together, dinner together and share this life time experience. But I guess that at the end of the day, if you don't care about others, this is what you are gonna do.

I am just appealing to some common sense to be used. Some good manners would be appreciated. People have all afternoon to prepare their rucksacks and put things they need aside. This is also why flashlights were created. But no. Just turning the volume up and wake up everyone for no reason whatsoever. Excuse if I sound angry, but I am. Just so rude.

I hike quite a lot in the Alps and stay at mountain huts. Almost universally it's lights out and quiet at 22:00 and it's enforced. Of course you could be bunking next to a climber who is up at 3:00 to make a summit ascent!

 

[Andrea Mayfield]

I tend to think of Alburgue life as having the qualities of summer camp, without a counselor to keep some semblance of order. Without a resident monitor to enforce things like noise limitations and lights out curfews, one is at the mercy of Obliviots. Sometimes the Obliviots are few and far between, at other times you feel like you are between a gaggle of Obliviots. Sometimes peer pressure from the group keeps the Obliviots at bay, at other times it seems the peer group is content to let the Obliviots bay.

It seems that any discussions wishing or hoping for even minimum standards of behavior and expectations, draws criticisms by those who include any such discussion as imposing on the vaporously undefined notion of "My Camino". To be sure, there is a definite and positive rationale for respecting the concept of "My Camino"; but should that not also include discouraging negative behaviors which Obliviots impose on others?

Thankfully, most here on this forum counsel novice pilgrims on those types of behaviors to avoid when in a group setting. But there are still those voices which will tell the pilgrim, who is frustrated by Obliviot behavior, to just suck it up because that annoyance is your problem. And to a certain extent I agree, in that how we handle that annoyance is the individual's issue.

So, thankfully, much of the Obliviot problem is not going to be consistent; but it must be <sigh> expected. To avoid this, there are other choices for accommodations to provide needed respite. Yes, that makes the Camino budget more expensive; and it does nothing to discourage Obliviot behaviors from expanding with the passing years. It seems that, like bedbugs, Obliviots are simply part of the Camino picture.

Does Permethrin work to ward off Obliviots?

If only.........<3

 

[susan harris]

I hike quite a lot in the Alps and stay at mountain huts. Almost universally it's lights out and quiet at 22:00 and it's enforced. Of course you could be bunking next to a climber who is up at 3:00 to make a summit ascent!

I keep being grateful for all the blessings of « my » camino in 2013: I never encountered such rudeness except at the very end in Fisterra. Would a gentle grandmotherly nudge work, or would it generate anger in addition to rudeness?

 

[Liz Drew]

Hi everyone,

I am not intending to rage or start arguments, but I am posting this so people can be aware.

It may be hard to share a space such as an albergue with other people. Where do we cross the line between what we want to do and other's personal space? As delicate as this can be, I believe that normal education and common sense are key. So, posing the scenario of several, and I mean several, people already fast asleep in a room, would it be ok for most of you fellow pilgrims, just to enter said room blasting, talking really loud, turning on the lights ans basically waking up everyone? Would it be ok if I wake up like at 5am and do the same, just turn on the lights and wake everybody up?

We are in the camino as we are in life is, for me, one of the most real sayings about the camino. I guess that if you are rude, selfish and not aware of your surroundings, this is the kind of situation that you will create. People will sing together, dinner together and share this life time experience. But I guess that at the end of the day, if you don't care about others, this is what you are gonna do.

I am just appealing to some common sense to be used. Some good manners would be appreciated. People have all afternoon to prepare their rucksacks and put things they need aside. This is also why flashlights were created. But no. Just turning the volume up and wake up everyone for no reason whatsoever. Excuse if I sound angry, but I am. Just so rude.

I sometimes wonder why some people walk the Camino. Perhaps they gain an awareness of how disrespectful they can be!

 

[Tony Calhoun]

I find it useless and frustrating to worry about the actions of others.

Well said, pilgrim.

 

[Liz Drew]

Totally agree

 

[TMcA]

Somewhat related source of aggravation - litter.

Just finished Burgos-León stretch. Seemed cleaner than my earlier Camino Francés walks. So maybe people who have previously tossed tissues, tp, etc., are becoming more considerate. Hope so.

Tom

 

[oldskills]

ah bless having read all the posts has made me chuckle.we need a thread to educate people about pilgrim behaviour,whether you class yourself as a pilgrim or not.
i have walked several different camino"s and it is usually the first night that is the worst.
when arriving at your chosen albergue,firstly sort out your bed.then sort out what you will be wearing the rest of the day and tomorrow .shower and do any washing that needs to be done.sort any medical problems,ie blisters,sore spots ect out.relax and unwind.
in the evening have your next day clothes ready and when you get into bed,make sure that the next day clothes are the only things out.
wake up at your chosen time and if need be use your head torch on its single setting,so as not to imitate a lighthouse.
if possible take your clothes/kit outside into another room and get dressed.leave the albergue quietly.
i have found most people settle into albergue routine very quickly,if not a quiet word to help them i have found to be very welcome.
you will always find that people have their own views and it seems to me that a healthy dose of common sense and an even bigger dollop of humour is essential.
if you find a really annoying group,try to avoid the first albergue you come too that evening and go for the next of my favourite is to walk to the furthest one on the edge of town.most people aim for the first one or one near a bar.
i sleep like the proverbial log and have slept through a minor earthquake whilst in a nunnery,whilst everyone else dashed outside.
we all learn things about ourselves and others on the camino,let us keep positive and thankful.

Thanks for this, I'm going to copy it onto the first page of my Camino diary to help me when I revert back to my natural state of "crabby, older woman", I'm sure I will need it once or twice along the way.

 

[tmurphy]

Hi everyone,

I am not intending to rage or start arguments, but I am posting this so people can be aware.

It may be hard to share a space such as an albergue with other people. Where do we cross the line between what we want to do and other's personal space? As delicate as this can be, I believe that normal education and common sense are key. So, posing the scenario of several, and I mean several, people already fast asleep in a room, would it be ok for most of you fellow pilgrims, just to enter said room blasting, talking really loud, turning on the lights ans basically waking up everyone? Would it be ok if I wake up like at 5am and do the same, just turn on the lights and wake everybody up?

We are in the camino as we are in life is, for me, one of the most real sayings about the camino. I guess that if you are rude, selfish and not aware of your surroundings, this is the kind of situation that you will create. People will sing together, dinner together and share this life time experience. But I guess that at the end of the day, if you don't care about others, this is what you are gonna do.

I am just appealing to some common sense to be used. Some good manners would be appreciated. People have all afternoon to prepare their rucksacks and put things they need aside. This is also why flashlights were created. But no. Just turning the volume up and wake up everyone for no reason whatsoever. Excuse if I sound angry, but I am. Just so rude.

I couldnt agree more. A little condiseration is easy to show and it goes a long way, especially at the end of a hard day. However, life is more and more about 'ME' these days so I can understand why thinking of others is way back in peoples considerations. A Mor! Good luck.
Terry

 

[May2016]

I've only experienced rude, loud people coming in late at the curfew a few times on three Caminos, and it was mostly the vino tinto talking.
Lights in the morning were usually turned on at 6am, but most early risers did whisper and tried to be quiet. If I wasn't ready to get up, my ear plugs kept most of the noise out anyway and I just tucked my head under my sleeping bag and fell back asleep.

I do have a question though....Often when I would reach the albergue in mid afternoon, there would be one or two people napping. Am I supposed to whisper in conversation to my companions and tiptoe around in order to not disturb them? I'm couteous, but I personally don't think we should have to accomodate the afternoon nappers when we arrive tired ourselves, unloading our packs, getting our shower gear together, etc.
Is my attitude inconsiderate? Maybe I'm opening a pandora's box by asking this question.

I wondered this as well. We had a couple of 5am risers who would be tucked up asleep at 2pm in the afternoon when we were all starting to arrive at the next albergue. One in particular would be giving us the stink eye & harumphing whilst we were unpacking & chatting about the days journey. Although we tried to be considerate & not make too much noise we did feel it was their choice to leave so early & they should have to expect that they were not always going to have a peaceful nap in the afternoon. As long as people were quiet after lights out I had no complaints.

 

[Deleted member 77020]

Maybe I was just lucky but I've never experienced bad inconsiderate behaviour in the albergues on my journeys, I've only stayed in the Municipal and found them ok, some better than others, but the other guests have all been really nice and considerate.
I'm sorry you haven't experienced this.

Wow you were staying with saints?

 

[Deleted member 77020]

Portugal is even worse. (I'm Portuguese!)
When we visit there, people in cars come honking to pick us up for dinner at 11 pm!

I'm not saying people should not be respectful.
I'm saying you cannot control other people's behavior and if you think you will do that by complaining in a forum, you're in for a sad life. The only person you can change is YOU.

Noise is a part of Camino life in albergues.
Which is why I book private rooms these days.

And frankly, there IS no one point of the Camino.
People walk for many different reasons.

so you are saying because they are walking for different reasons they are allowed to do what ever they please? I am about to do my 10th. Camino and it seems the 5 AM risers are always there no matter the rules . The only place where there is total consideration is the former Le' sprit du chemin. They have no wifi in the Albergue and no one leaves before 6 it's a rule. This Albergue is still one of the best places to stay and get a good nite sleep. The former owners were ber concerned with how the first nite was spent there. I was a hospitalero there in 2010 for 2 weeks.

 

[Anniesantiago]

so you are saying because they are walking for different reasons they are allowed to do what ever they please? I am about to do my 10th. Camino and it seems the 5 AM risers are always there no matter the rules . The only place where there is total consideration is the former Le' sprit du chemin. They have no wifi in the Albergue and no one leaves before 6 it's a rule. This Albergue is still one of the best places to stay and get a good nite sleep. The former owners were ber concerned with how the first nite was spent there. I was a hospitalero there in 2010 for 2 weeks.

No. As I said before, I'm not saying people should not be respectful.
I'm saying you cannot control other people's behavior. The only person you can change is YOU.

 

[ophelia]

I totally agree. Especially in the Albergue in Marinhas. We like to go to bed early as we’re pretty exhausted every day. It was shocking the lack of respect from other walkers. I wouldn’t call them pilgrims as real pilgrims would not behave like this. I think the protocol should be, arrive, find your bed, prepare your bed then go out. Don’t come in at 9/10pm and start making your bed. If you want to have a conversation outside the room,speak quietly not shout at each other. And if you see people sleeping when entering the room, try your best to close the door quietly instead of throwing it shut. I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade, and I’m perfectly fine with groups having a good time, but please be aware that there are other people than you. It’s shameful and I’m embarrassed for those people. They seem to miss the whole point of a pilgrimage. Rant over.

Interesting, your comment, as when I posted the thread I was precisely in Marinhas, and went through exactly what you describe, loud speaking outside, people waking people up at 9h30/10pm, and so on. I know that I can be seen as not reasonable because I am complaining, but I don't believe these actions are reasonable at all. Respect and consideration for the next person are values sometimes lost, and sadly.

 

[ophelia]

Portugal is even worse. (I'm Portuguese!)
When we visit there, people in cars come honking to pick us up for dinner at 11 pm!

I'm not saying people should not be respectful.
I'm saying you cannot control other people's behavior and if you think you will do that by complaining in a forum, you're in for a sad life. The only person you can change is YOU.

Noise is a part of Camino life in albergues.
Which is why I book private rooms these days.

And frankly, there IS no one point of the Camino.
People walk for many different reasons.

Nobody said that you should be able to control other's behaviour. And saying that complaining in a forum is a sad thing is so only because you do not agree, which you are entitled to.
But the forum does not exist, and no forum exists only for discussing the good. I am going to be honest with you: it is not my first camino, I expect noise and I do expect all of the implications that sharing a room with 16/30/40 other strangers bring. And I am quite a tolerable person. I will most likely always find a solution for something without bothering anyone else. Just because I don't think it is worth it.
But the original post I have made, of course I did it in part because I was upset and I admit it, but it is also to discuss the subject.
At the moment I find a bit shocking that making the noise after hours (nobody mentioned 7/8pm, only 9h30/10pm - which is actually lights out/curfew time by the way) is perceived as normal and expected, and complaining like I did is seen as outrageous and something that should not be done because I should be expecting it. It is not a sad life to complain on a forum, it's sharing opinions and experiences.

It is good that you only book private rooms so you found your solution, but there are people - like me - who can't afford it at all. I can only afford the normal bunk bed at a municipal albergue. The same way that all my gear is the cheapest from decathlon and such. Some pilgrims might have the money to live it to the fullest/rest/etc, but I personally am walking for the joy of walking and can't spend the money I do not have. Does that mean that I cannot have the lights out at 9:30pm? When I was not the only one in the room, there was about 6 people already sleeping? Does that mean that because you can only spend 6€ to sleep, and even though albergues have rules, their disregard must be seen as normal you are the one that cannot even say a word about it? Just because you want to enter a room talking SUPER loud and turn lights on when there is still a bit of natural light coming from the windows, then people already resting, if they don't like, should walk 50km the next day just to avoid staying with them. Would it not be easier for everyone to follow common sense and live together for that afternoon/night with no major issues? As I said, I rise early and I do everything in my power not to wake anyone up. I leave the bed and gather my stuff outside, just to let others enjoy their extra hours of sleep. I could just turn on the light, speak with my husband loudly and would that be ok? It would be easier for me, but I don't think it's right.

Honestly I was just discussing, as at the end of the day I will just deal with it. And the only one that can change is me in fact, but I find it sad that simple "rules" of co-existence no longer matter, because some people only care about themselves.

 

[Anniesantiago]

Nobody said that you should be able to control other's behaviour. And saying that complaining in a forum is a sad thing is so only because you do not agree, which you are entitled to.
But the forum does not exist, and no forum exists only for discussing the good.

Hi Ophelia. Actually, I was responding to another person’s post. That said, my response may have sounded more harsh than was meant. Sometimes trying to carry on a conversation in these forums is difficult. I’ll change it - though I still maintain you cannot change anyone’s behavior but your own. Believe me, those rude people bother me as much as the next person. And regarding private rooms, sometimes 3-4 pilgrims together can book a triple or quad for the same price of an albergue. .

 

[Glamgrrl]

No. As I said before, I'm not saying people should not be respectful.
I'm saying you cannot control other people's behavior. The only person you can change is YOU.

Yes, I learned a long time ago, you cannot change other people, you can change how you respond or feel.

 

[DeansFamily]

Just like everyday life, inconsiderate people make their presence known. On the Norte currently the majority of pilgrims are wonderful. The ones that aren't appear to be using their credential as a way to cheap accomodation in between bus travel. This has been noticeable since Bilbao and we have personally seen these offenders get off the bus whilst we have been walking to the alburgue, and take accomodation from more deserving pilgrims. These same people we have had to ask to stop laughing and talking loudly at 10 pm in the sleeping area of one Alburgue and eventually we made ourselves get out of sync with them to gain some sort of calm. So far so good.

 

[katie@camino]

I've only experienced rude, loud people coming in late at the curfew a few times on three Caminos, and it was mostly the vino tinto talking.
Lights in the morning were usually turned on at 6am, but most early risers did whisper and tried to be quiet. If I wasn't ready to get up, my ear plugs kept most of the noise out anyway and I just tucked my head under my sleeping bag and fell back asleep.

I do have a question though....Often when I would reach the albergue in mid afternoon, there would be one or two people napping. Am I supposed to whisper in conversation to my companions and tiptoe around in order to not disturb them? I'm couteous, but I personally don't think we should have to accomodate the afternoon nappers when we arrive tired ourselves, unloading our packs, getting our shower gear together, etc.
Is my attitude inconsiderate? Maybe I'm opening a pandora's box by asking this question.

I'm one of those who rise early in the morning and have a bit of a rest in the afternoon as most people arrive. I 100% would NOT expect people to stay quiet during the day time to accommodate my schedule. If the sun is still shining, make as much noise as you want.

After around 9-10pm, however....

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Somewhat related source of aggravation - litter.

Just finished Burgos-León stretch. Seemed cleaner than my earlier Camino Francés walks. So maybe people who have previously tossed tissues, tp, etc., are becoming more considerate. Hope so.

Tom

From Castrojeriz to Sahagun is Ditch Pig Camino Cleanup territory. For the past nine years, volunteers do an annual sweep. Good to see someone notices!

 

[Luka]

I do have a question though....Often when I would reach the albergue in mid afternoon, there would be one or two people napping. Am I supposed to whisper in conversation to my companions and tiptoe around in order to not disturb them? I'm couteous, but I personally don't think we should have to accomodate the afternoon nappers when we arrive tired ourselves, unloading our packs, getting our shower gear together, etc.
Is my attitude inconsiderate? Maybe I'm opening a pandora's box by asking this question.

I often wondered the same. To me it seems pretty normal that a dorm in an albergue is dark and quiet somewhere between 9.30pm and 6.30am (depending a little bit on the season and the heat). But if people also close curtains and ask for silence in the middle of the afternoon, what moment is left then to make your bed and organize your pack?

And often - indeed - the afternoon sleepers are the same people who either come back late in the evening or get up extremely early in the morning...

So my suggestion would be: either to divide the dorms according to personal scedules or to forbid pilgrims to sleep in the afternoon ;-)

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Well, I don't think pilgrims can be forbidden to take naps in the afternoon, but I don't think the rest of us should have to "tiptoe" around the albergue trying to be quiet.

 

[Luka]

@Camino Chris First of all, I am joking. Second, I mean, my fellow pilgrims should be tired enough to want to go to bed before 10pm and to sleep at least until 6am ;-) If they nap for 2 hours in the middle of the day chances are that they can do with less sleep during the night.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

@Camino Chris First of all, I am joking. Second, I mean, my fellow pilgrims should be tired enough to want to go to bed before 10pm and to sleep at least until 6am ;-) If they nap for 2 hours in the middle of the day chances are that they can do with less sleep during the night.

I totally agree with your post. In fact I had to edit my post above to say we should NOT have to tiptoe around the albergue in the afternoon while people take naps, and yes, they often are out late and/or up early because of that.

 

[JabbaPapa]

several, and I mean several, people already fast asleep in a room, would it be ok for most of you fellow pilgrims, just to enter said room blasting, talking really loud, turning on the lights ans basically waking up everyone? Would it be ok if I wake up like at 5am and do the same, just turn on the lights and wake everybody up?

Welcome to the Way of Saint James.

 

[Irish Bernie]

Sleeping is for touristos !!!!!

 

[yaying]

budget more expensive;

though i noticed first wondering Mr. Jones senior chopper avatar...

 

[yaying]

turned off at 10 pm and on again 6 am next morning.

suddenly...suddenly i missed a church in dubai where once ur inside automatically shuts your internet and even phone signals.

 

[alhartman]

Staying in albergues is an experience in living anarchy new each day. I have found less conflict and better behavior where the hospitalero takes a role of authority preemptively--posted rules etc. One experience in Ourense with only a half full albergue where a pilgrim came in at 930 loud and drunk, and had his gear packed up for him by the hospitalier and was put out into the street!!!
I use a mantra stolen from the Buddhists "Suffering or happiness is created through one's relationship to experience, not by experience itself. " I get to practice it during they day when pilgrims use the scarce chairs in a crowded cafe as a resting place for their pack.
And anarchy seems to get worse as the camino gains popularity. Too many different categories now--religious, spiritual, athletic, touragrino, cheap vacation......
And I have always walked in the shoulder seasons where resources are not over-stressed. The camino is also a laboratory of human economic behavior.
There are ways to mitigate the albergue annoyances (earplugs, eyemasks, private accommodations, joining the afternoon nappers after a bad nights sleep)
All said, the joys of Camino walking have far outweighed the negatives, and has been a nearly annual mainstay of my life after retirement.

 

[Tincatinker]

Anarchism advocates self- governed society based on the voluntary participation of its members. Turning up drunk at lights out or breaking curfew or any of the other outrages committed by the selfish and self-regarding in disregard of the the principles and practices of Albergue society is not Anarchy. It is little Peter practising being bad while nurse is busy and mummy isn't watching.

Those who choose to not participate in a free, self-governed society are, of course, free to not participate: anywhere they like - except in the Albergue! Respect to a hospi who took it upon themselves to explain this but it is actually the responsibility of all of us to maintain self governance on Camino or it really will just be Mickey-land and your (extra) Euros will be the only thing that buys you security and peace.

Expressing our outrage here, be it over poop, litter or loutish behaviour may get the choir singing in tune but expressing it right into the face of the generator might get more results. Just saying.

 

[MichaelC]

Expressing our outrage here, be it over poop ... right into the face of the generator might get more results. Just saying.

That would certainly get results ... though I'm not going to volunteer to be the one to try it ...

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I'm not going to volunteer to be the one to try it ...

It might be like monkeys in a zoo...

 

[VNwalking]

Triple like, @Tincatinker . Very true - we can yak here all we like but we mostly agree.

though I'm not going to volunteer to be the one to try it ...

I've done it a few times, with mixed results. But I felt better. You do what you can and then let go of the outcome.

It might be like monkeys in a zoo...

Depends. Calm, kind, but very clear boundary setting has better results than venting one's (understandable) irritation or outrage. There is such a thing as violent communication and then there's non-violent communication. The latter works a whole lot better than the former.
The speech or lack of it and the discernment about which to choose are skills anyone develop.
But (speaking for myself anyway) work in progress...and not easy.

 

[naplesdon]

I agree, I often find that the people who go to sleep the earliest, snore the loudest, wake up the earliest and make the most noise sorting their bag which they could’ve done the afternoon before!!

I totally disagree with you.

 

[Tincatinker]

Gently pilgrims, gently. Disagreement is welcome on this forum. Dispute is not.

 

[naplesdon]

No worries. I go to bed early, that’s all. Wink, wink!

 

[Gillyweb]

Is it not also inconsiderate of those 1 or 2 who go to bed at 7-7.30pm turn all the lights out and expect everyone else staying in the room to fumble around in the dark when returning from dinner before 8pm. Often there is a posted 'lights out' time. Then that that should be the expected lights out time. Others may need to use eye covers and ear plugs if retiring very early or getting up late. My 2c worth.

I’m completely with you here. Consideration should go both ways and expecting those who start walking later or finish later to be stumbling around in a darkened room at 8 or even 9pm is equally selfish. By all means go to bed but don’t turn off the lights in a passive aggressive manner. Too often I’ve gone to dinner and got back around 8:30 to find the place in darkness and then been sssssh’d because I can’t find anything in the dark - usually by the ones who then leave at 5am after waking everyone else with their carrier bag rustling !!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

don’t turn off the lights in a passive aggressive manner

Take a sleep mask, also very handy on the airplane flights to and from, and the room lights become a non-issue. If you do what you can, you do not have to rely on other people doing what they can. Ditto earplugs.

 

[Icacos]

The sign said "Lights out at 9 p.m." My companion was irked when we got back to the dorm at 8:50 (after church services) and found it in complete darkness and every one settled. I got out my little red light and went about my business. Roll with it, I say, you're on camino.

 

[Deleted member 77020]

so you are saying because they are walking for different reasons they are allowed to do what ever they please? I am about to do my 10th. Camino and it seems the 5 AM risers are always there no matter the rules . The only place where there is total consideration is the former Le' sprit du chemin. They have no wifi in the Albergue and no one leaves before 6 it's a rule. This Albergue is still one of the best places to stay and get a good nite sleep. The former owners were ber concerned with how the first nite was spent there. I was a hospitalero there in 2010 for 2 weeks.

I encountered couples and individuals on this years Camino that do not stay in Albergues but simply stay in private places. I myself have also on this Camino have stayed in a lot of private spots my own small room and privacy. I will stay in albergues as long as they are small and few people. I enjoy people but not in my sleeping area although have met many great people in albergues...some of us just like to have privacy and the Camino allows for that.

 

[Colette Z]

Ive walked 2 Caminos both in early March/April sleeping in municipal albergues whenever available and have only encountered “disrespectful” pilgrims on a couple of nights both Caminos. I presume that in peak season repeated exposure to such behaviour could take its toll but respect in addressing the offending behaviour is the only answer.

 

[Dannyhiker]

In well-managed hostels like Hostelling International, quiet times are posted - usually 10pm to 6 am. When it's quiet time, I tiptop and don't talk to my companions. But outside of that, I move quietly but I don't worry about the occasional rustling.
I would hope that Spanish Albergues would post quiet hours. It makes everything work so much more smoothly.
Thank you

 

[nalod]

Sorry but that scenario would have had me in stitches laughing.

Lights, camera, action, scene 4 take 1.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I would hope that Spanish Albergues would post quiet hours.

A few do, but don't expect the practice to catch on. Enforcement is scanty. Many hospitaleros are gone by bedtime.

 

[Starseeker54]

having done a few caminos,i feel that there is room for all .myself and my walking mate are both ex public sector workers and used to unsociable hours.it is our routine to be up and away by 06.00am.we prepare our kit the night before and have the bare minimum out,so that in the morning we do not need torches,but just pick up our kit and move out of the room to a place where we will disturb nobody.as we meet the same people day in and day out i am sure any observations to this practise would come out in conversation.
i love my short kip when i get in and have done all the necessary prep for the following day.invariably i am awake when the first pilgrims arrive,but if not it does not bother me.
a point has occurred to me that we do all of our walks at the beginning of march.fewer people and so maybe that is an answer.

 

[C.C.]

Though I often post thoughtful, "live and let live" messages here or say things like Falcon said, "I find it useless and frustrating to worry about the actions of others." I wish that were true for me! But ACTUALLY in real life, I often allow myself to get incredibly annoyed, indignant and judgmental about the actions of others. I do start every day on the camino fresh, but then the next day some group of asses will inevitably take up the whole laundry line with their towels splayed out horizontally so nobody else can use the line. They will whisper loudly (which for some reason drives me even much crazier than when people talk out loud). They will stink up the dorm with strong-smelling foot ointments. Etc. The only thing that relieves the tension for me is my sense of humor. It's the only thing I seem to have control over (*most* of the time); the choice between being angry or laughing.

In one albergue, I was happy to be put in a room with only three beds. And only one of the other beds was occupied! But it was occupied by a woman who talked to herself while unpacking little plastic bags from her pack, sorting out all kinds of little things on her bed, repacking them and then repeating this again and again. I tried to get a good look at what she was doing and how she was sorting her little gadgets, because I was writing it all up in my journal. I almost couldn't wait to meet up with somebody I knew the next evening so I could tell this story. And, amazingly enough, the friend I ran into the next day HAD SPENT A NIGHT NEXT TO THIS SAME PERSON IN AN ALBERGUE A COUPLE OF NIGHTS BEFORE. We laughed so hard.

I know this doesn't sound kind, but it works for me.

I think I met her too !!!