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Certainly personal questions are not necessarily rude. But context is everything. Asking the questions in the context of a conversation is one thing. Dispensing with a greeting and approaching someone out of the blue with "How old are you?" is something else.It’s perfectly natural in many parts of the world to ask ‘how old are you’, are you single, why do you travel alone, why do you not have a wife, etc… (and maybe a need to make allowances for those cultures) but I am guessing that these ‘askers’ are not from those parts of the world so yes rude and no need to reply!
My favourite was “Dave the Social Butterfly”. He looked very much like Dave, one of my dear friends back home who was by no means talkative. Anyway, whenever I met DSB (who only spoke Italian) he was overstaying his visits with annoyed pilgrims on the Camino. It was amusing to see folks trying to politely end these encountersMy kid and I had a good time giving nicknames to the people we walked with but did not really talk to, the ones you pass and then they pass you and then the next day you see each other again. Here are a few of our favorites:
Mr. Fancypants, who wore very bright cotton drawstring pants that he probably picked up from a street stall in Thailand
The Dog Walkers, a middle age couple walking with two beautiful dogs, heeled perfectly to their sides
The Breakup Couple, because she so did not want to be walking the Camino and he so didn’t care that she didn’t; I would bet their relationship did not last past their Camino
The Facetimers, a father and teen daughter, one of whom was always loudly FaceTiming someone while they were walking
The Foursome, one man and three women all of very different ages and physical shape; we could not figure out a connection between them at all
How about you all? Have you nicknamed people on the Way?
I am so pleased to read this post. Another post in another thread just took my breath away with the apparent total judgment, and yours has helped me to breathe again. Some forum members are skilled at working out that stuff that is about reasoning. Not me, but I have learned enough to know that what I expect is what I will get. Usually. Or often. I cannot dare to generalise and tar everyone with one brush, when most likely it is my problem on the day, in the moment.This forum generates some fine conversations and this is one of them. I've lived in other people's countries all my life and cultural differences fascinate me.
For instance, to overcharge someone in a bar in my country is a very serious insult, and no tourist will ever be charged more than a local, except by a shameless renegade huxter. I've never heard of it.
To reprimand a stranger in my culture is taboo. There are protocols for calling strangers to account for their misdeeds but they are elaborate in their courtesy.
My people have a reputation for being friendly. They're not, they're just as prone to irritation and rudeness as any other human on the planet, anywhere. It's just that our culture absolutely prohibits us from showing this, and we obey it. We call it "plamas", a word which has no analogue in other languages in the same way as "schadenfruede" (incidentally, also totally taboo in my culture) in German cannot be perfectly translated into a non-Germanic language.
Spain is like anywhere else; regions, even parishes have differences in social culture. Individuals are different also, everywhere; they tend to follow the rules and taboos laid down by their culture, at least outwardly. You never know what they're thinking. Protocols of courtesy and hospitality differ and their purpose is to regulate the interaction between strangers and above all avoid the conflict which could easily occur otherwise. There's also a spiritual dimension, rooted in the religious faith of the culture, or its absence.
The locals on the Camino are gentle and patient and hospitable towards us and so are the pilgrims towards each other (magically, even if they come from direct, even abrasive social cultures).
That's one of the reasons why I love the Camino. If someone is rude to me I know it right well but I ignore it and control my reaction if I can; not always. I'm working on it.
If I'm unintentionally rude to someone else I hold myself to account afterwards. I hope that the person I've been rude to will also follow the rule of my own people: never take offense unless offence is intended. We have to look out for each other, in both senses of the phrase and on the Camino 99.9% of us do. It's not like the real world.
Has to be Dave! He was an exceptional officer, and is a good human. I worked for him for a time, and am honored that he served as my mentor during a challenging professional time.I walked with a man from Romania who was so kind and nice to fellow pilgrims I emailed my wife that I thought I was walking with Jesus. No disrespect intended. Later on I walked for a few hours with a man who was kind of dressed like and really looked like Santiago himself. Big gruffy beard, booming Spanish voice. Turned out he was a retired U.S. Air Force General. Buen Camino
Same here. Usually the nicknames were kept in my head as a thought and usually just for the more obnoxious ones, particularly those playing loud music oblivious to other pilgrims. Have they not heard of ear buds?Yes - but not with names I'd be prepared to repeat on a public forum...
What is the JMT Trail, and where is it?My jmt trail name is "stinky fish". I dig it. It had to do with how I carried tuna packets, with olive oil. They made fun of me at first, but were trading me for it after day 8 in the woods.
California. The John Muir Trail. Looks a bit more ambitious than the similarly named John Muir Way in Scotland.What is the JMT Trail, and where is it?
Dumb is me, I should have twigged that!California. The John Muir Trail. Looks a bit more ambitious than the similarly named John Muir Way in Scotland.
The JMT happens to be my son's favorite long distance trail in the US. He returned so excited several years ago and tried to convince mom to join him and go a second time, but I knew my limits and the hardships. Those incredibly beautiful views did not sway me...in addition to my bear phobia.California. The John Muir Trail. Looks a bit more ambitious than the similarly named John Muir Way in Scotland.
Other people have shared information. It is magical and so amazingly beautiful. But different than the Camino. Not quite the long haul of the triple crown but sort of hard core. It basically covers the most rigorous part of the PCT... or so I'm told... will find out!What is the JMT Trail, and where is it?
Only 3 bears seen on my 3 journeys. But the last one was intense! Just for a minute.in addition to my bear phobia
The JMT is the 211 Mile/340 KM John Muir Trail in the State of California (USA). It is one of the most popular, if not the most popular, wilderness trails in the US. Its highest point is 14,505'/4,421m. This trail is not up/down over rolling hills but up/down over mountain peaks.What is the JMT Trail, and where is it?
Damien, you saw three bears too many for me. Bear canisters are required by each person hiking on the JMT...that should tell people something.Only 3 bears seen on my 3 journeys. But the last one was intense! Just for a minute.
Well done.The JMT is the 211 Mile/340 KM John Muir Trail in the State of California (USA). It is one of the most popular, if not the most popular, wilderness trails in the US. Its highest point is 14,505'/4,421m. This trail is not up/down over rolling hills but up/down over mountain peaks.
Because of its popularity and subsequent damage to the environment, backpackers need a permit to hike it. The permits are limited each year. They are (or were) given out by lottery and about 90% of requested permits are denied.
This is a true wilderness trail. You must carry all your food, water, shelter, etc. There are various ways to re-supply.
Because of the danger of bear attacks in the southern half of the trail, hikers are now required to carry a bear canister to store all food. (Bears are always looking for free food). This adds to the weight and need for a larger backpack.
Google: John Muir Trail
Back to nicknaming people. The JMT is a trail where you are given a name. You never bestow a name on yourself. Unless you have a problem with ego.Well done.
Yah, I would never have picked "Stinky Fish"... But I liked it.Back to nicknaming people. The JMT is a trail where you are given a name. You never bestow a name on yourself. Unless you have a problem with ego.
In the mountains where I spend my weekends, our bears are pretty tame as long as you don’t disturb them when they are rummaging through trash bins. This big guy, in particular, is a neighborhood favorite (but most of us are still not stupid enough to get too close):Damien, you saw three bears too many for me. Bear canisters are required by each person hiking on the JMT...that should tell people something.
As I said it varies hugely by country. And context is definately not everything in many parts of the world! When I lived in India I would get asked how old I was as if someone was asking me the time. Complete strangers would ask me why I am alone or not married. I am in SE Asia at moment and get asked all the time. I know to expect it, as I know it’s very common here. Whether they ask it just to Westerners or people from the region I don’t know but I suspect the former. Women get asked too, in fact more so as some people are suprised to see women travelling alone. Young women because they are young and older women because people are curious as to where her husband is. On the other hand some are asking me for commercial reasons, in the sense that a single man alone will be offered the option to not be alone!Certainly personal questions are not necessarily rude. But context is everything. Asking the questions in the context of a conversation is one thing. Dispensing with a greeting and approaching someone out of the blue with "How old are you?" is something else.
Ok, no way on the JMT, well one near VVR was pretty chill... but the more wild ones, well, they tend to freak out when seeing a human, at least in my experience. They run and hide.In the mountains where I spend my weekends, our bears are pretty tame as long as you don’t disturb them when they are rummaging through trash bins. This big guy, in particular, is a neighborhood favorite (but most of us are still not stupid enough to get too close):
I am a introverted person but I have occasionally had very profound and intimate conversations on my Camino journeys. It takes a high degree of trust to reach that stage though and that is rarely achieved in minutes. Someone whose initial contact with me is aggressively over-familiar and crosses my personal comfort limits is unlikely to speak with me again at any length. If I find them especially "in my face" then I will quite literally take steps - possibly several thousand of them - to avoid encountering them again.Many people don't want to be intrusive, so hesitate to ask anything but superficial questions.
There is no law that says you can't choose your own trail name; generally, on the U.S. trails they are given you, but no rule against it. I named myself backpack45 years ago because I was near that age and not seeing many other women -- especially over age 45) on the trails (John Muir/PCT). Why it would be considered "off putting" to use whatever name you want to use on the Camino? I generally use my given name, but much of my social media connections are as backpack45 because I am proud of supporting women of any age on trails of the Camino and elsewhere.You know what's a little weird? Expecting pilgrims on the Camino to call you by your trail name from the Appalachian Trail or the Pacific Crest Trail. Those names are generally specific to those trails and are bestowed upon people by their fellow hikers. You can't choose your own trail name. I met one guy this year who told me that "people call him xyz" ( I'm not going to say the real trail name here). When he told me that he was from Pennsylvania I asked him if that was his Appalachian Trail name, and he said yes. I later met some other pilgrims who thought that it was a little off-putting to be using a trail name from the US when you are on the Camino.
I also walked for several days with a young woman who had hiked most of the Appalachian Trail, and she didn't ask to be called by her trail name.
Indeed. That’s sounds like a great opportunity for your son! I hope he is thriving…I am sure he is and has a million stories to tell and advice to pass on. I think S. Korea and Japan are probably the most ‘culturally different’ to how ‘we are’ in the west… it really hammers the diversity of life home. Anyway back to nicknames!I understand that. My son taught English in South Korea for a couple of years, and he said it was very important to know one's age, as a lot was dependent on age, seniority etc. - how you addressed someone, but especially who was expected to pay the bill at the restaurant!
But, as you said it's probably more nosiness if asked this question on the Camino.
My kid and I had a good time giving nicknames to the people we walked with but did not really talk to, the ones you pass and then they pass you and then the next day you see each other again. Here are a few of our favorites:
Mr. Fancypants, who wore very bright cotton drawstring pants that he probably picked up from a street stall in Thailand
The Dog Walkers, a middle age couple walking with two beautiful dogs, heeled perfectly to their sides
The Breakup Couple, because she so did not want to be walking the Camino and he so didn’t care that she didn’t; I would bet their relationship did not last past their Camino
The Facetimers, a father and teen daughter, one of whom was always loudly FaceTiming someone while they were walking
The Foursome, one man and three women all of very different ages and physical shape; we could not figure out a connection between them at all
How about you all? Have you nicknamed people on the Way?
Heard and appeciated.I enjoyed listening to this on Instagram and it has some relevance, I think. Please listen to the end of you feel the urge to react.
Yes it’s a good point. Even your use of madams if I understand you correctly! !! A madam in the UK from where I live a female who is full of herself, ‘precious’, ‘bit of a princess’ loves herself, thinks she is above people, etc.It has no connection with ‘Madame’ which has connotations to a sexual profession. So they may have been referring to you as ‘stuck up’ as opposed to running a brothel if that’s any consolation! It was probably done softly’ and lightheartedly as were being seen as ladies who like to ‘dress up’ in the evening and who cared about their appearance.I think probably most of us have used nicknames to refer to people, but I think it’s good to keep in mind the effect it could have on those we nickname. On my very first camino, both my walking partner and I brought skirts to change into at night, thinking that it would be more decorous, as women in our 50s. We later heard from someone that we were referred to as “the madams.” Now that could have a very innocent interpretation, but the thought that people were using a term to describe me that could refer to women of a different profession was really kind of hurtful.
On a Camino Primitivo, there was a father and son pair that was a bit on the margin of our large “camino family.” Some of the people in that group referred to them as Jack and Jones, which was a reference I didn’t understand. In some conversation, I told them about the nickname, and they took great offense. I felt terrible, but the damage was done.
So my heads up would be that it’s a good idea to think about whether you would want the person nicknamed to hear that nickname. If not, maybe it’s a good idea to choose another nickname.
Well, I’m afraid that’s no consolation!Yes it’s a good point. Even your use of madams if I understand you correctly! !! A madam in the UK from where I live a female who is full of herself, loves herself, thinks she is above people, etc. It has no connection with ‘Madame’ which has connotations to a sexual profession. So they may have been referring to you as ‘stuck up’ as opposed to running a brothel if that’s any consolation!
Indeed… anyway don’t fret. Many fathers refer to their daughters here as ‘proper little madams’, I know I did with my eldest! In fact it was a famous ‘strap line’ for a UK advert back in 70s! Something along the lines of a little cute girl saying ‘when I grow up my dad says I am going to be a proper little madam’!Well, I’m afraid that’s no consolation!
Or perhaps even to take the time and effort to get to know their actual name.......
So my heads up would be that it’s a good idea to think about whether you would want the person nicknamed to hear that nickname. If not, maybe it’s a good idea to choose another nickname.
Attempting to admonish a bear for being greedy, teasing and provoking the animal, well done that clever guy.. he's lucky he didn't get properly mauled.In the mountains where I spend my weekends, our bears are pretty tame as long as you don’t disturb them when they are rummaging through trash bins. This big guy, in particular, is a neighborhood favorite (but most of us are still not stupid enough to get too close):
Oh, many have let him know how stupid (and lucky) he was, including the state.Attempting to admonish a bear for being greedy, teasing and provoking the animal, well done that clever guy.. he's lucky he didn't get properly mauled.
I hope they gave him an appropriate nickname: The Moron, The Damn Fool, The F***ing Idiot etc..
Australians would have called him BlueyThe "Ginger" man from England because he had vivid natural red hair.
Could you summarise? I do not open most media apps.I enjoyed listening to this on Instagram and it has some relevance, I think. Please listen to the end of you feel the urge to react.
You don't have to open an app - the video will play right on the forum.Could you summarise? I do not open most media apps.
Thank you. I do not open any other social media apart from email, whatsapp, signal and the forum. Oh, and youtube. I will survive without knowing.You don't have to open an app - the video will play right on the forum.
Attempting to admonish a bear for being greedy, teasing and provoking the animal, well done that clever guy.. he's lucky he didn't get properly mauled.
I hope they gave him an appropriate nickname: The Moron, The Damn Fool, The F***ing Idiot etc..
There is yet another trail named after John Muir. Information about it is also on Wikipedia. Peg and I hiked a portion a few years ago. Here's my edited version of Wikipedia's introduction:California. The John Muir Trail. Looks a bit more ambitious than the similarly named John Muir Way in Scotland.
It is a clip from a much longer talk by David Brooks that is on YouTube. I will send you a link to the clip via direct message. It is worth listening to the rest of David's talk, I think.Could you summarise? I do not open most media apps.
Yes....! We repeatedly crossed paths with her too. Same nickname and same bafflement as she waffled on in French to us. Our Quebecois friend tried to avoid conversation with her as it could get a little strange.There was an older woman (mid-60s) on the Primitivo in mid to late September that we all knew as "the French lady." So named because she held one- sided conversations with all of us, exclusively in French, regardless of whatever language we addressed her in. Rumor was that she was actually Swiss...
There are labels and there are labels.David describes the advantages to both ourselves and the society that we live in when we are curious about other people and we treat them as individuals rather than categorising them and/or giving them labels.
However, my paraphrasing doesn't do his words justice. His words are much more useful. For example, within his discussion about labelling vs curiosity and listening he labels people. I think that this is deliberate and designed to help people understand what he is talking about.
You know what's a little weird? Expecting pilgrims on the Camino to call you by your trail name from the Appalachian Trail or the Pacific Crest Trail. Those names are generally specific to those trails and are bestowed upon people by their fellow hikers. You can't choose your own trail name. I met one guy this year who told me that "people call him xyz" ( I'm not going to say the real trail name here). When he told me that he was from Pennsylvania I asked him if that was his Appalachian Trail name, and he said yes. I later met some other pilgrims who thought that it was a little off-putting to be using a trail name from the US when you are on the Camino.
I also walked for several days with a young woman who had hiked most of the Appalachian Trail, and she didn't ask to be called by her trail name.
Definitely give the JMT a go, even if for only a few days. Easily the most beautiful trail I have completed. I linked up the JMT with my PCT hike at Whitney Portal and then hitched back to the Portal after reaching Happy Isles so not to skip any PCT miles that do not overlap. An extra 180 miles or so, but covering those overlapping miles on the JMT again were quite worth it.The JMT happens to be my son's favorite long distance trail in the US. He returned so excited several years ago and tried to convince mom to join him and go a second time, but I knew my limits and the hardships. Those incredibly beautiful views did not sway me...in addition to my bear phobia
Other people have shared information. It is magical and so amazingly beautiful. But different than the Camino. Not quite the long haul of the triple crown but sort of hard core. It basically covers the most rigorous part of the PCT... or so I'm told... will find out!
There is no law that says you can't choose your own trail name; generally, on the U.S. trails they are given you, but no rule against it. I named myself backpack45 years ago because I was near that age and not seeing many other women -- especially over age 45) on the trails (John Muir/PCT). Why it would be considered "off putting" to use whatever name you want to use on the Camino? I generally use my given name, but much of my social media connections are as backpack45 because I am proud of supporting women of any age on trails of the Camino and elsewhere.
While I respect what you are saying, I do have to respectfully disagree for the most part. I have well over 50K miles on the major long distance trails in the US & New Zealand etc...
I understand and respect that you consider the Camino that way. I'm sure there are many who come to the Camino after walking other long-distance trails who see it the same way. But I think most of the people who walk the Camino who don't see themselves as hiking a trail but rather walking a pilgrimage route, which is an overlapping but different thing. The cultural expectations of these pilgrims are a bit different from the cultural expectations of the hikers you may be used to walking among. Hence the responses you are seeing here to "trail names".I fully understand the Camino is not a wilderness trail or even remotely similar to walking any other long distance trail, but it is still considered a trail.
Yes, wasn't that evident when you walked? You are free to introduce yourself by any name you choose. You are clearly proud of your chosen name and the reputation/creds/history you associate with it, but to make a big point of it seems to ignore the different Camino culture.except the Camino evidently.
Or Ranga...Australians would have called him Bluey
I fully understand the Camino is not a wilderness trail or even remotely similar to walking any other long distance trail, but it is still considered a trail.
The member you replied to considers it a trail. I agree with you. An old story: two worthies in an East of Scotland village, always arguing, over scripture. One finally thinks he has beaten the other, saying : aha! St Paul says this! The one who will not be defeated says: Ah yes! That is just where me and Paul differ!It's a pilgrimage.
Thank YOU and to everyone else for the honest feedback. I obviously live in my own head way too much. I now realize that my own need to remember my son and our days on various trails with the name he gave me is likely more culturally insensitive than I previously considered.For context: I‘m an experienced long distance hiker mainly focusing on challenging trails in Europe and Africa. Trail names aren’t a thing here but some (younger people) might be aware of that concept through US media.
I personally don’t care what name you (anyone) go/goes by but one advice would be to consider the local perspective - not using your given name would be considered seriously peculiar in many cultures of your host country. I’m not talking about Max / Maximilian but rather the more outlandish trail names you sometimes (including here) hear about. While people along the AT might be used to that, the lovely old granny you meet in a shop on the Camino certainly will not.
I also think there’s a stark difference in acceptable nicknames depending on where you are from. Location-based nicknames seem to be perfectly acceptable for US people whereas they are really uncommon for Europeans. Honestly, I’d not be inclined to continue engaging with you if you shout „hey Berlin“ after me.
As for nicknames for people you haven’t engaged with / don’t know their names but are essentially bitching about (read the thread, a lot of them are given to the more obnoxious characteristics one might display) - kindness (even within your own thoughts) goes a long way on a pilgrimage.
I’m sorry if my post came across as harsh, that was not my intention and I apologise for that. Cultures differ tremendously and trail names are important in your culture - and what’s more important - yours has significant meaning for you. While many people here will not be accustomed to them a simple way to make everyone happy might be: my name is XY but I usually go by YX (maybe adding why given how lovely the connection with your son is).Thank YOU and to everyone else for the honest feedback. I obviously live in my own head way too much. I now realize that my own need to remember my son and our days on various trails with the name he gave me is likely more culturally insensitive than I previously considered.
I do sincerely thank each of you for prying my eyes open a little wider so I can see what I really need to see - the whole world and not just my own headspace and personal challenges. While I identify as a long distance hiker and that does have its own stereotypes to many people, I am always incredibly nice, respectful, generous, and grateful to everyone I meet. Even more so last year on the Camino Frances. I hope to be an even better example of a considerate visitor to the wonderful folks of Spain this Spring.
As previously mentioned, I did indeed see the Camino as a trail, primarily for the physical aspects of it. Now as I look more broadly at it and see it as described by many here, I can see the Camino as more of an “Experience”. Encompassing the varying cultures from region to region of the locals, the wide range of cultures and personalities of the many international pilgrims, and at the minimum, the physical act of hiking the “trail”. For the last two years I have actively tried to avoid referring to my Camino hikes as anything remotely similar to a Pilgrimage. Mainly for the reason listed earlier; I just wanted to hike and be a long distance hiker again. I always left room in my mind for that moment or realization that suddenly appears to so many people which defines their Pilgrimage, but I never allowed it to materialize.
Maybe the feedback on my post and my resulting broader perspective is my “Camino moment”. Thank you.
If the guy who introduced himself to me with only his trail name had done this I would have had a different reaction.While many people here will not be accustomed to them a simple way to make everyone happy might be: my name is XY but I usually go by YX
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