New Signage

[jimb01930]

The CP is not like Camino France where thereare long line of peregrinos, locals who are accustomed to their presence, and a well defined way. Here you are much better off taking all info yougetfromthebook, from the waymarks, and from maps as being suggestions and, sometimes, fantasies.

Alot of work has goneinto putting up new blazes, tiles, and map to walk theway.It is clear to all of us that someone is playing politics with the signage. Somesaycertain towns havemade deals to get on theway. Others say large homeowners aretrying to get the way to come by theirhome so theycan get money fromtheEU to refurbish themand rent rooms to pilgrims.In somecases those rooms are priced so high they basicallyget thetax money to fix aprivate home becausemost pilgrims cannot pay that much for onenight. Whateverthereason forthenew routes know this.Theyadd distanceto thethe alreadylong days that are laid out in stages in the guidebook. Folks may say it is saferto walk on thetrails than on thehighway or that weshould not cross railroad lines. But going around thelong wayis a safetyissueas well.Youmayget hit by acar or a train but when your30k stagebecomes a40k in 37c+ temps youWILL haveproblems. This really cometo the fore with the new route that avoids Pombalinho and Azinhaga.Seemap photo below. The new route takes youwest through Mato deMiranda with a side trip to and back from Azinhaga. From the place you split off N365 to Golega is about 9k the old way.The new way was estimated to be about 17k by theonlyof the 4separateparties of pilgrims who walked it. Therest of us just stayed on N365 all theway . The. Brierley. book is of no help hereand adds to confusion.

We had the same issue the nest dayleaving Colega. where there. is old markings going through aquiet dirt road or new marking at a rotary (roundabout) We haved eveloped a basic heirarchy of trust of signage.Old arrows are the best, new tiles second best, fancy new maps are works of fiction.

 

[jimb01930]

I apologize for all the,words without spaces. I am doing this from my phone here in the Hostel Thomar in Tomar

More at WWW.squamzen.com

 

[peregrina2000]

Hi, Jim,this is great information for people heading out and also for me as I think about updating the Confraternity's online guide for Lisbon to Porto.

A few years ago, the main complaint about the Lisbon-Porto segment was that it was way too much asphalt. Some re-routing efforts were successful but it seems like they have added the surprise of too many extra kilometers.

When I walked this way several years ago, the Caminho didn't go through Pombalinho, but it did go through Azinhaga, so it sounds like there are actually three versions of this stage -- through both towns, through just one of them, or through none of them! I am going to see if my friends at Via Lusitana have any information they can provide here. I was with them in springtime and we installed markings in one of those maddening eucalyptus forests before Tomar, so I hope you didn't get lost there! Hope you were able to enjoy some time in Tomar and see the monastery. Bom caminho, Laurie

 

[Via Lusitana]

Jim, people say what they want to say, but...
Yes, there is a big problem with the Camino on the stage from Santarém to Golegã. Pilgrim Associations are well aware of it. Tourist and cultural boards also. Everybody is trying to get things better. But sometimes is easier to say silly things:
Towns making deals to get on the way is the most stupid thing I have heard in a long time. It's not your fault, of couse. You are just telling us what ignorant and envious people told you. Things don't work that way in Portugal. Golegã has been on the Camino at least since the 14 century.
I have been in countless meetings about the Camino Portugues with mayors, tourist boards, etc etc. and everybody wants to have things done the better way for pilgrims.
The Golegã Mayor is playing politics with Azinhaga? Maybe. People at Azinhaga are mad with the Golegã Mayor? yes they are. They want the Camino going through their town and businesses, and I agree that the Camino should go through Azinhaga, because that is better to pilgrims, and it's the historical track. But I must tell you that he old track was a continuous source of problems, going throught private farms with the owners closing and changing paths every couple of months and it is also a flood zone. There was a usual number of lost pilgrims there. The new marking takes you too far north, out of Azinhaga to get pilgrims off of the paved road. Yes it's a mistake. There is no good solution here. Althoug I think you get yourself lost somewhere, this detour does add distance to the stage, but it's not 10kms, more like 2. And this is a municipal thing, the Town Hall can do whatever wants to do. I hope people will learn from their own mistakes. Things will be better next year, associations and Camino municipalities do want the Camino to be better for pilgrims.
Also, there is no EU money for refurbishing houses because of the Camino. The EU programs to refurbish old houses and change them to touristic business are in no way related to the Camino. You won't get a cent more or a cent less if the Camino is at your door or 100 Km away. Of course there are touristic businesses who would like to have the Camino by their door, and there have been a few who tried to change the Camino. No one suceeded so far. The things they told you about the high prices, the EU or taxpayer money Camino related, etc, etc etc are not real. Those are talks driven by ignorance or envy. Next time you hear that kind of fables, ask for an example. Only one. You will get a "everybody knows that" answer, or a lie. Wanna bet?
Don't get me wrong, we want to know the bad things, we thank people who point errors to us, that's the way the Camino can become better. But we want facts - the Santarem/Golegã is a problem, yes it is, we like people to complain, we will "deliver" those complains to the right places, each complain can become a card in this game we play together.
We don't need conspiration theories.
Of course you are only telling what someone told you. I know that. I know how one feels after 30 and so kms in the sun. And I know those kms and I know that sun. But I also know the places, the people, the reality of the Portuguese Camino.
I really wish you a Bom Caminho

For those who wants to take a look at Brierley's new map of this section, it's available at the updates in the caminoguides web page:
http://www.caminoguides.com/docs/Santarem-Golega p.53.pdf

José Luis Sanches

 

[jimb01930]

Thanks to the both of you for all your work on the way. Yes, you hear silly things in the cafes along the way. I am glad they are not true. The only reason I do not dismiss this type of rumour out of hand is because I have witnessed the battle of the arrows on the French way. One guy wants the Camino by his cafe so he goes out and paints his own yellow arrows and guy on the other side of town paints over them. I have not seen that in Portugal.

We have come to call the new markings leading into Golega "the Horse Way" . We are not certain but believe the maps were supposed to be three loops, one for hiking, one for bike and one for horses.

The one of us who walked the new way went all the way to Malta de Miranda and came back hungry as a horse.

We are staying in the new place in Tomar. Hostel Thomar 2300 . It is wonderful place. More at WWW.squamzen.com

 

[peregrina2000]

I know it's no comfort to those who are walking now, but I have total confidence that the Via Lusitana will get these difficulties ironed out. They are a godsend to the Camino from Lisbon to Porto.

I just wanted to add that even before the mayor of Golega got involved in the Camino, I got terribly lost in one of the farms Jose Luis describes and wound up walking into Pombalinho totally by mistake, because it wasn't on the Camino at that time. From there someone directed me to Azinhaga, so I got back on track. One of the problems is, I think, that until there is a critical mass of pilgrims, townspeople are not likely to know anything about the Camino, much less be invested in it. I remember going into the pharmacy in Azinhaga and mentioning the Caminho to the woman behind the counter. she had no idea what it was, so I took some time to show her the arrows, one of which was on a light pole right outside her door! I assume that is changing little by little.

Glad you are enjoying Tomar, it's a lovely town. Someone (maybe anniesantiago???) has recommended the matchbook museum and the old synagogue, but I have never visited either. Matchbook museum?! Buen camino, Laurie

 

[jimb01930]

Aye, we had a funny conversation with a local when we were lost. We were trying to ask the way back to camino and she had no idea where we talking about. Just as we walked away she suddenly realized and said 'Santiago ! That way!' pointing north.

We saw the synagogue but not the Matchbook museum. The owner of Hostel 2300 Thomar circled the synagogue on the city map for us saying ' It is ancient. A lot of Americans go here but I do not know why.'
'I have the same problem' I said. 'I live on an island with a lot of fishing. Tourist come to look at the fishermen and I have no idea why.'

 

[Former member 22438]

A nice story. Entering Golegâ during our caminho last May, we were walking alongside the busy road when two cars-both oldtimers- stopped in front of us. A man in the first car,an antique Peugeot 504 - welcomed us in Golegâ, told us he was the mayor and asked us if we had a place to sleep.. If not ,he should help us..we had one already, Tia Guida Solo Duro..he told us that Golegâ is pilgrim friendly and continued his way.
Arriving in the urbanisation we met Kirsten who has one room for lodging. ,She was walking the dog .and she allready had rented her room to an American ,we met earlier in Santarèm but Kirsten offered us a nice stamp in our credential.
Asking for Hostal Tia Guida nobody could tell us where it was and we ended up in a street where I asked a man about it. He never had heard about it. At the same time just oposite the street we were, a lady opened the front door and called us to come in. It was hostal Tia Guida Solo Duro. Golegâ is really pilgrim friendly. Nice place to be.

 

[Me Fein]

I walked Lisbon to Santiago April/May this year. I was also welcomed by the mayor as I entered Golega. He gave me directions to Kirsten`s but she was going to Lisbon so her husband took us to Casa da Tia Guida. A Spanish pilgrim and myself were the first pilgrims to stay there, we were made very welcome by the whole family. I also liked Golega especially sitting in the square by the church Sunday evening watching the world go by. I enjoyed Caminho Portugese very much. Of course the weather was much kinder temp in high teens and always a breeze. I remember the wonderful people who were so warm, helpful and friendly.Also the great scenery so green and lush. I have forgotten the long stages

 

[Magwood]

I walked Lisbon to Santiago April/May this year. I was also welcomed by the mayor as I entered Golega. He gave me directions to Kirsten`s but she was going to Lisbon so her husband took us to Casa da Tia Guida. A Spanish pilgrim and myself were the first pilgrims to stay there, we were made very welcome by the whole family. I also liked Golega especially sitting in the square by the church Sunday evening watching the world go by. I enjoyed Caminho Portugese very much. Of course the weather was much kinder temp in high teens and always a breeze. I remember the wonderful people who were so warm, helpful and friendly.Also the great scenery so green and lush. I have forgotten the long stages

Did you write a blog on your caminho Portuguese? Am considering it for next spring, and am looking for as much info as poss.

 

[Former member 22438]

Did you write a blog on your caminho Portuguese? Am considering it for next spring, and am looking for as much info as poss.

My blog. (In Dutch. Google translate maybe helps but lots of pictures)

http://nel-en-albert-op-pelgrimreis.reismee.nl/