Need Advice - Sailor needs to walk

[SailingwithSoul]

Hi Everyone!

I'm new to this forum and I was hoping to get some advice on doing my first Camino January/February 2013. I selected the North route because it will keep me closest to one of the things I love the most - the sea. I'm deciding on whether to walk in January or February. I don't mind the cold. My main reason for going during these times is to save money and miss any busy season. I planned a route that begins in Southern France at Saint-Jean-de-Luz and runs North through Spain. I would appreciate any advice, suggestions and opinions on this route & how to pack for the season. The estimated completion time (according to Google) is 221hrs. If I walk for 15-16 hours per day, it should take me about 15 days to complete my trip???

I'm planning to walk for as long as my legs will take me, even walking through a night or two. Do you think 30 Eur per day (600 Eur for the entire walk) would be a comfortable budget?

Here is the link of the walk I planned. Let me know what you think:

Thanks Everyone!!!

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=...8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18&num=10&t=m&z=7

 

[Anniesantiago]

I think you can comfortably do it on 30 euros per day in Spain.
In France, you may need a bit more.

I don't, however, think you will walk 15-16 hours per day.
Most folks are done after 6-8 hours.
What people don't understand until they're on the Camino is that this type of walking is "different."
I hear people say, "Oh, but I"m on my feet all day at work."
Trust me... it's different.

Anyway, good luck to you!
The coastal route is beautiful!
Buen Camino!
Annie

 

[SailingwithSoul]

Thanks Annie!

I anticipate long walking days only because I have done it in the past while hiking through Yugoslavia.
Granted, those were 4 day round trips through the mountains, but I'll heed your advise and not overestimate myself (I am a bit past my teens...lol). Any recommendations regarding packing/preparing for the weather on the Northern Route during the winter?

-Johnny "Sailing with Soul"

 

[MikeJS]

I think your biggest challenge at that time of year will be in finding accommodation. Even in Oct we often had to walk further than planned because of the lack of a place to stay. Also I wouldn’t fancy walking through the night on many parts of the norte owing to the problem of finding your way and not loosing your footing. I walk a lot but would still not plan to do more than 40km a day - when do you intend to eat or wash and dry your clothes?

 

[SailingwithSoul]

I think your biggest challenge at that time of year will be in finding accommodation. Even in Oct we often had to walk further than planned because of the lack of a place to stay. Also I wouldn’t fancy walking through the night on many parts of the norte owing to the problem of finding your way and not loosing your footing. I walk a lot but would still not plan to do more than 40km a day - when do you intend to eat or wash and dry your clothes?

Hi Mike,

I'll snack during the day and break for dinner/sleep at one of the pilgrim inns. For snacks, I'll most likely buy a loaf or two, some easily transportable cheeses, couple fruits/nust/crackers for the road and keep a liter of water per day on me. I'll keep light and healthy during the day and restock on carbs/protien for dinner. I'll most likely pack 2-3 small bags of Jerky. I am curious how laundry works?? I'll be layering with 2-3 wool fleece sweaters. I also have light waterproof foul weather gear that doesn't weigh anything. My main garments will be cotton T's and undergarments. They don't weigh much and that'll allow me to have clean clothes almost every day without washing.

 

[Kiwi-family]

Have you considered the amount of sunlight at that time of year? You'll be doing a lot of walking in pitch black if you want to go too far!

 

[SailingwithSoul]

Have you considered the amount of sunlight at that time of year? You'll be doing a lot of walking in pitch black if you want to go too far!

Hi Kiwi,

Yes, I have. I've walked and sailed at night and don't mind the darkness. Are there any concerns related to violence against pilgrims along the northern route?

I've been doing some additional travel research. So far the biggest expense is getting to Saint Jean De Luz and then coming back to New York. I think my cheapest option would be to fly in to Paris, then take the train to Saint Jean De Luz. After the walk I can take a train to Madrid for the flight home.

 

[poogeyejr]

€30 per day will be tight in the winter, even if you don't plan on eating in restaurants. ( found food in Spanish grocery stores very cheap.) The pilgrims hostels are €5 per night, but in the winter you will be doing a lot more private accommodations, especially if you want to walk as far as you can. A single room was about €22 to €30 in May 2011. The youth hostels were between €15 to €20 a night for a bunk.

 

[SailingwithSoul]

€30 per day will be tight in the winter, even if you don't plan on eating in restaurants. ( found food in Spanish grocery stores very cheap.) The pilgrims hostels are €5 per night, but in the winter you will be doing a lot more private accommodations, especially if you want to walk as far as you can. A single room was about €22 to €30 in May 2011. The youth hostels were between €15 to €20 a night for a bunk.

Thanks Poogeyejr!

With the exception of one or two nights, I'll keep away from the restaurants. I'll visit the local bakeries/supermarkets along the way. I'd prefer the pilgrim hostels to save money, and I also have some cold weather survival gear for any time I need to make shelter outside. Is there a comprehensive list of pilgrim hostels along the North Route? recommend any good books containing the same?

 

[dougfitz]

Your proposal, based on the map link you have provided, requires you to walk over 70km per day for 15 straight days. Unless you are currently an elite member of the ultra-marathon community, and have a support team so that you are not carrying a pack, I would suggest that this might not be achievable.

I say this having helped someone train for an attempt at 1000km in 25 days. The attempt was thwarted when she broke her hip during the walk, but it took her over a year in preparation to build up to the required level of endurance to even contemplate starting her walk.

The distance calculated by Google presumes that you can both stay on track, and don't do any extra walking to find accommodation or meals. My experience on two pilgrimages is that you need to plan on an extra 10-12% for these activities.

Even without the extra distance, covering 70km in 15 hours walking will require an average speed of around 5.5km/hour if that time includes your rest and meal breaks (based on 15min rest/two hours walking and two 30min meal breaks). I walk regularly with people who can achieve 5.5km/hour for 10-15km, but that is with a very light daypack if any pack at all. It will be much more difficult for the longer distances and with any load. Alternatively, if the 15 hours is your walking time, you face doing 18+ hour days if you are taking breaks.

Planning this in winter is interesting. Walking on roads and trails at night is a quite different environment to sailing at the same time, and I would be careful about thinking your experience on the water will translate easily to the land. As an aside, you will need to ensure that you are wearing appropriate reflective clothing if you are doing any roadside walking, particularly at night.

I think there are other issues that you will need to think through if you are to achieve this, even with much shorter daily distances. I will be interested to see how you plans eventuate.

 

[mikevasey]

Hi sailor,
Good luck with which route you walk. However the one route i would not want to walk in winter is the northern route, my reasons? The mud!!! There is a lot of road walking, but if it has been a wet winter you wish that all the route was road, there is something about narrow country paths with overgrown vegetation on either side and deep wet mud which sucks your footwear in which is not for me.Its a personal opinion, but i have seen a video of three italians walking it in january and no matter how good the background music was it could not hide the amout of mud they had to plough through.

Why not change your desire from walking next to the sea to walking under a ocean of stars- the camino frances, one of its other names is the via lacotea( the path of the milky way), it will be quiet, there will be some albergues open and there will be a few other hardy souls like yourself. It is a way of contemplation.

Mike

 

[SailingwithSoul]

Your proposal, based on the map link you have provided, requires you to walk over 70km per day for 15 straight days. Unless you are currently an elite member of the ultra-marathon community, and have a support team so that you are not carrying a pack, I would suggest that this might not be achievable........

Planning this in winter is interesting. Walking on roads and trails at night is a quite different environment to sailing at the same time, and I would be careful about thinking your experience on the water will translate easily to the land. As an aside, you will need to ensure that you are wearing appropriate reflective clothing if you are doing any roadside walking, particularly at night.

I think there are other issues that you will need to think through if you are to achieve this, even with much shorter daily distances. I will be interested to see how you plans eventuate.

Why not change your desire from walking next to the sea to walking under a ocean of stars- the camino frances, one of its other names is the via lacotea( the path of the milky way), it will be quiet, there will be some albergues open and there will be a few other hardy souls like yourself. It is a way of contemplation.

Hi Doug,

Thanks for breaking down the numbers more closely. I've always considered myself a brisk walker and can keep a good pace for a few hours on end. I can't say about my speed, but now I'm interested. I'll test to see if my phone can give me a average SOG reading when I leave the office tonight. I usually take 5-10 minute breaks when I ride or hike. I usually sail 10-12 hours straight before I anchor to cook and rest. I know pack weight is a very big issue in walking. Since the concern seems to be finding open hostels along the route, I would consider bringing 2lb tent & 4lb sleeping bag and a couple emergency blankets. I have quite a bit of survival gear and I'll go through it over the coming weekend. Would a 15-20lb pack be too much for a trip like I'm planning?

Hi Mike,

Thank you for the suggestion. The northern route just feels like the one I need to take. I feel like I'll find something along that route. I know that during the winter it will most likely be cold, wet, and not readily trekked, and that seems to be the greatest appeal.

In the end, I will either finish the walk within my allotted time, or take a train to my departing airport. It would be wonderful to push through and finish the walk. Either way, I think it will be an experience that open up the next chapter. Everyone's suggestions and responses have been great help. I'll keep posting updates once I decide on the departure date and update my ideas and plans.

 

[jastrace]

Hi Sailingwithsoul,

what an endeavour your are contemplating. There is something about such feats of endurance that captures the imagination. I wish it was within my capacity to knock out 70kms a day for 15 days in a row!

If you don't mind me asking, what is inspiring you to drive yourself that far and that fast each day?

The reason I ask is because your approach is vastly different to mine; almost the opposite. I say this without any criticism whatsoever.

When I try to imagine walking in your shoes, it feels to me that driving yourself hard and the experiences that will provide (good and bad) is one thing you hope your Camino will provide. Arriving at the end point in 15 days seems like it would be a bonus if it happened.

I am very "end point" driven and so I am happy to take more time walking shorter distances to get where I want to on a given date and enjoy the process. For example I am happy to take 40 days to walk the Camino Frances from St Jean (35 walking days, 5 rest days) when I could probably walk it in 30. For this reason I am interested in your approach.

I apologise in advance if I've completely missed the point!

Please keep us up to date with your progress.

All the best,

Jason.

 

[mikevasey]

Thank you for the suggestion. The northern route just feels like the one I need to take. I feel like I'll find something along that route. I know that during the winter it will most likely be cold, wet, and not readily trekked, and that seems to be the greatest appeal.

Have a great camino and I hope you find your hearts desire

 

[SailingwithSoul]

If you don't mind me asking, what is inspiring you to drive yourself that far and that fast each day?

Hi Jason!

Ask away. I honestly decided to go on this Camino de Santiago on a whim. My boat (Sailor’s Soul) was damaged in Hurricane Sandy and, because of the cold temperatures, the fiberglass repairs have to wait until the Spring. I was originally going to use this winter to install new components to set her up as a live aboard, but it seems the universe had other plans. I’m not complaining as others suffered far worse in the storm.

Anyhow, One evening I watched a movie called “The Way” with Martin Sheen about the Camino del Santiago, and I realized that I should do that......More importantly, I should have already done that! I have always found my peace and happiness close to nature.

My reason for going in the winter (December/January) is based upon a combination of factors. First and foremost, I dislike “tourist seasons.” I want to experience and integrate with the local community without having to compete with the commercial distractions brought upon during those time periods. Secondly, and most disappointingly, I have to maintain my day job. I would love to be able to take a full month or two, the way I used to, and just walk around, meet locals and get lost in a new place. Hopefully beginning 2014, I will, but for now, I only have a limited amount of time to be away from work. More so, as the holiday season tends to be the slowest thereby affording me the greatest flexibility to travel.

I’m excited to learn just how hard I can push myself. How long my body would last at a steady pace with little rest and steady exertion. The Vendee Globe sailors are currently doing it. If I can push through, I’ll know the time spent in an office or the soul-sucking underground commute has not weakened my fortitude.

For me it’s never been the destination. It’s the journey I long for.

Cheers!!

Johnny

 

[SailingwithSoul]

Hi Guys,

So I'm still trying to hammer down the departure and return dates. I would love to be able to incorporate the holidays into the walk. In the mean time I made a list of things I will pack and categorized them as either packed, worn or TDB (since they may just prove to be dead weight). If anyone has any suggestions, let me know.


1. Packed
Hiking pack
Self-inflating mat
Sleeping bag
Cotton T-Shirts (15-18)
Super Towels (2x)
First Aid Kit
emergency blankets (3)
Paracord (2X25ft)
Undergarment(20-25)
heavy socks (20-25)
Heavy Wool Sweater
Small solar charger
snacks/MRE (2 days)
Poncho (3)

2. Worn
Thermal Under Armor
T-Shirt
Additional Sweater
Cotton Pants
Foul weather jacket
Foul weather jacket
Hiking Boots
Hat & Shemagh
Glasses
Walking stick
1 Liter of water
Survival knife
fire starter
$650 EUR

3. TBD packed/worn
1 person tent
folding shovel
Umbrella
light sneakers
slippers/sandals
.........Any Suggestions

-Johnny

 

[Kiwi-family]

Is it stating the obvious to point out that if you are walking 70km a day you won't be meeting too many locals? If you want to have time to sit and chat with locals or other pilgrims you'll need to allow a few hours for this. But maybe this walk is mor about you pushing yourself to see where your limits lie. I'd suggest it would be difficult to combine both - if you stop you'll be wondering if you could have kept walking, if you walk at that pace for that length each day you'll miss out on the conversations.
I'll be interested to see how it pans out (clearly everyone is different...I'm hoping to walk the Iron Curtain Trail one year and people tell me that's crazy - so I do understand you a little!)

 

[SailingwithSoul]

.......... I'd suggest it would be difficult to combine both - if you stop you'll be wondering if you could have kept walking, if you walk at that pace for that length each day you'll miss out on the conversations.
I'll be interested to see how it pans out (clearly everyone is different...I'm hoping to walk the Iron Curtain Trail one year and people tell me that's crazy - so I do understand you a little!)

Hi Kiwi,

You're right. It's the the balance I'll have to strike. I'll most likely favor pushing on through. I've decided to fly into Paris, take the train to Saint Jean de Luz, walk the Camino and then fly home from Madrid. I just need to hammer out the dates & ticket prices.

I just Google'd the Iron Curtain Trail and....... Damn, you're a beast! I say go for it! Especially if others tell you you can't :twisted: . Life is short, There's so much to see, and never enough time to see all those things. Just make sure you take plenty of pictures and share it online.

Btw, I just bought a new pack for the walk:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001IKFVHI/?tag=casaivar02-20

I know bigger isn't always better, and I may not use all the space, but one never knows. 8)

EDIT: I'm wondering if it's better to go sooner or later :?: :?:

http://news.sky.com/story/1011176/anti-austerity-strikes-protests-grip-europe

 

[jastrace]

I’m excited to learn just how hard I can push myself. How long my body would last at a steady pace with little rest and steady exertion. The Vendee Globe sailors are currently doing it. If I can push through, I’ll know the time spent in an office or the soul-sucking underground commute has not weakened my fortitude.

Very cool Johnny.

Have a great time!

Jason.

PS.

Consider what you are going to do for blister prevention and treatment, especially if you are going to knock out those sorts of distances and there is a chance your feet will get soaked.

 

[poogeyejr]

I stayed at the hostel in Irun and they have a listing of all the hostels that were to come.

 

[poogeyejr]

There is a detailed list of each route on the local Eroski site.
http://caminodesantiago.consumer.es/

It is in Spanish, but once you use google translate and you translate
Lavadora, Secadora, Calefacción, Frigorífico, Agua caliente, and Duchas 18 or 20 times you start to remember what they are.

This is the link to the first Eroski entry for the beginning of the Norte Route.

http://caminodesantiago.consumer.es/mob ... -sebastian

And if I remember correctly. This is my google translate Spanish lesson . . .

Lavadora: Washer
Secadora. Dryer
Calefacción: Heating
Frigorífico: Refrigerator
Agua caliente: Hot Water
Duchas: Showers

 

[george.g]

Hi John.
I have read the posts re your plan to walk the "Norte" early next year, I must say I admire your intentions but think your plans need a little tweaking.
I would plan to stay in a nice warm place each night, with facilities to wash and dry clothes, and provide hot food.
Your packing list suggests that you plan to take 20 sets of cotton Tee shirts, u/pants and heavy socks, NO! go to your local hiking /running shop and get 2 or 3 sets of technical long sleeve tee's and u/pants and smartwool socks and liners, plus Gortex jacket and pants.No cotton No foulweather gear NO heavy wool socks.
Exchange your 80L rucksack for one of 45/50L and when packing if it won't go in don't take it.(Ospray do some nice one's) So no folding shovels no Rambo knives no tents.
I think you are going to burn up a lot of energy each day so I would carry at least 2 or 3 thousand calories, in any form you can get down.
Plan as though you were going to run 15 consecutive marathons and you won't be far wrong.

Best of luck

George.g

 

[Gillean]

Hi John.

I don't want to be negative but I am very alarmed at you plan. In all honesty I think it is way, way too ambitious. I urge you to be cautious. Try walking two 70 km days back to back at home with your full kit before you head to the Camino. 15 to 16 hours a day walking (plus break time) for that length of time with the pack weight you describe is very near impossible unless you are extremely experienced, brutally fit (SAS Selection/Navy Seals BUDS/Olympic decathelete fit) and completely focused. Will power is an issue but physically pushing your body that hard is more of an issue. I remember as a young man thinking that I could easily walk 8 hours a day in alpine terrain with a 50-60 pound (23-27kg) pack and knock off 24 miles (40 km) per day. Seemed dead simple. The math works. But 3 days into it I developed a stress injury to my knee which basically stopped working and I started to pee blood in my urine. My body was saying No! In fact it was screaming No! And this was at less than half the daily mileage you are contemplating and in relatively benign weather conditions.

I suggest you consider adjusting your start point so that you are averaging 25-30 km per day and staying in a nice warm albergue each night where you can dry your clothes, get a good hot meal and a decent night's sleep. I guarantee you that that will be more than enough challenge. Plus you will get a chance to build the comaraderie which is so much a part of the Camino experience. If you try the pace you are thinking of you will never see anyone more than once. Unless they come to visit you in hospital.

But you could surprise me. Nothing is impossible. Best of luck whatever your decision is!

Remember the sailor's wisdom:

Now these are the laws of the Navy,
Unwritten and varied they be.
And he who is wise will obey them,
Going down in his ship to the sea.

Uncharted the rocks that surround thee,
Take heed that the channels thou learn,
Lest thy name serve to buoy for another
That shoal the "Court-Martial Return".